Life without Qantas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
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This may be true, Sunfish. However,you can bet that those who are "redeployed" wont share in the benefits of being a more productive member of the economy. This is all part of the win-lose outcome that is sought by the current batch of capitalist pigs who run the Australian corporate economy; they win, workers lose.
and if your a worker and dont want to loose! then dont, become the boss! i have, earning 3 times per week then i did at QF! work monday to fri. and write my own paychecks! not only that i move approx $30 Million worth of stock through QF and AaE! (oh how i pray for an alternative domestic air freight company)
amd when it comes to finances! i havent made a profit in 3 yrs! I even repay half of my pay back to the company to help it out! (income effectivly becomes receipt of a loan repayment, no payroll tax, etc) a good accountant is worth his weight in gold! and im sure Qf can make the books look as good as they want no mater how their "actual" finances look! and now im in the transport game (road/rail) the QF brand is rapidly loosing its gloss!
IMO QF is making its record profits from its staff, internal cost cutting and degredation of its most valuable asset, its brand! Not so long ago, QANTAS meant Quality, safety, and a top range product! now its just another airline.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Australia
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Divide and Conquer
Folks as I see it Qantas management are all about dividing and conquering. Qantas fight their battles abroad - sure - some would argue they are losing there. However Qantas also are fighting battles closer to home (And this is the battle that effects every Australian pilot - both directly and indirectly). Its obvious GD hates the unions (and their members) far more than Singapore Airlines, Emirates etc etc. Look at the last few years. What a job! Many seperate little companies (All under the one BRAND NAME), and the staff of each are all fighting one another.
As the old saying goes "Together we stand. Divided we fall". We, as pilots (and most in the airlines are directly effected by Qantas' decions in some way), are divided. Dicko has it all over us. Pay and conditions continue to worsen - and I will suggest that they have a long way to go yet (Admittedly not all Qantas' doing).
I fear that GD will drive Qantas to purely a BRAND NAME - It is nearly that already. The more he divides us the less relevant any of the unions (we) become.
I am affraid that in this case I am a pessimist - I can not see us sticking together.
What are others thoughts about this?
As the old saying goes "Together we stand. Divided we fall". We, as pilots (and most in the airlines are directly effected by Qantas' decions in some way), are divided. Dicko has it all over us. Pay and conditions continue to worsen - and I will suggest that they have a long way to go yet (Admittedly not all Qantas' doing).
I fear that GD will drive Qantas to purely a BRAND NAME - It is nearly that already. The more he divides us the less relevant any of the unions (we) become.
I am affraid that in this case I am a pessimist - I can not see us sticking together.
What are others thoughts about this?
Grandpa Aerotart
My thoughts are that this sort of thread is the big downside to Pprune...we tell management exactly how to fck us over.
Can anyone imagine a management forum where we can go and read their plans for us...or where we can glean how to beat them at their own game?
Personally I think that QF's record profits have very little future...extracted as they seem to be from staff rather than expanded route networks/passenger numbers and higher yield.
That is a road with very little distance to the dead end and resulting big wreck....but as we all know management won't be around to be pulled bleeding from the wreckage...just the staff who are generally the only employees who have any real stake in the long term viability of a company like QF.
I actually believe that sooner or later management will piss employees off to such an extent that they will unite employees again...I can see a day when pilots are as united as Doctors and Lawyers....maybe not next year but one day.
What form will it take?
Hard to say...what about membership of a pilot's trade union (in the literal sense of 'trade union') being compulsory to gain employment in any form...from Grade 3 instructor to B744 Captain? Where for a few % of your pay, whatever that may be, you are represented by a full time staff of negotiators/legal reps who have no affiliation with employers and only work for the trade union. This union would have a full time rep for GA and a different rep for airlines, air ag or whatever. He/she is not a pilot but an expert in negotiation and employment law. A seperate section would have pilot reps, voted by a majority of members, who's job it is to represent the professional views of the members from that section of industry...Instructors would vote for their reps, regional pilots for their reps and 'mainline' pilots for their reps. These reps might have to be part time as the preference would be for current or recently retired pilots who have an outstanding record and are respected by their peers.
It would have to have some teeth too...if a member tries to short circuit the system by working for below award wages or back stabs fellow members to get ahead he is sanctioned somehow.
Sounds like the AFAP in it's glory days of the 60s and 70s...probably can't happen until the last bastion of group selfishness is broken down...the AIPA...when they realise their own futures are at risk without a united voice from every pilot down to a C210 VFR charter driver in Darwin then things will improve.
But the AFAP of the 60s and 70s was a product of the draconian employment conditions of pilots in the 40s and 50s.
It will be interested to see how QF mainline pilots vote in future at their AIPA elections...perhaps they can vote for an amendment to their constitution that says going from AIPA committee to management is not allowed under any circumstances.
Won't happen overnight but like most things in life cycles happen...does anyone think that the CX A scale just happened because of generous management?
It may also need a change of Govt and a review of employment law that re levels the playing field...brings back some social conscience....that's probably unlikely without great social upheaval...but that upheaval is where current 'management' and Govt policies are taking us.
Can anyone imagine a management forum where we can go and read their plans for us...or where we can glean how to beat them at their own game?
Personally I think that QF's record profits have very little future...extracted as they seem to be from staff rather than expanded route networks/passenger numbers and higher yield.
That is a road with very little distance to the dead end and resulting big wreck....but as we all know management won't be around to be pulled bleeding from the wreckage...just the staff who are generally the only employees who have any real stake in the long term viability of a company like QF.
I actually believe that sooner or later management will piss employees off to such an extent that they will unite employees again...I can see a day when pilots are as united as Doctors and Lawyers....maybe not next year but one day.
What form will it take?
Hard to say...what about membership of a pilot's trade union (in the literal sense of 'trade union') being compulsory to gain employment in any form...from Grade 3 instructor to B744 Captain? Where for a few % of your pay, whatever that may be, you are represented by a full time staff of negotiators/legal reps who have no affiliation with employers and only work for the trade union. This union would have a full time rep for GA and a different rep for airlines, air ag or whatever. He/she is not a pilot but an expert in negotiation and employment law. A seperate section would have pilot reps, voted by a majority of members, who's job it is to represent the professional views of the members from that section of industry...Instructors would vote for their reps, regional pilots for their reps and 'mainline' pilots for their reps. These reps might have to be part time as the preference would be for current or recently retired pilots who have an outstanding record and are respected by their peers.
It would have to have some teeth too...if a member tries to short circuit the system by working for below award wages or back stabs fellow members to get ahead he is sanctioned somehow.
Sounds like the AFAP in it's glory days of the 60s and 70s...probably can't happen until the last bastion of group selfishness is broken down...the AIPA...when they realise their own futures are at risk without a united voice from every pilot down to a C210 VFR charter driver in Darwin then things will improve.
But the AFAP of the 60s and 70s was a product of the draconian employment conditions of pilots in the 40s and 50s.
It will be interested to see how QF mainline pilots vote in future at their AIPA elections...perhaps they can vote for an amendment to their constitution that says going from AIPA committee to management is not allowed under any circumstances.
Won't happen overnight but like most things in life cycles happen...does anyone think that the CX A scale just happened because of generous management?
It may also need a change of Govt and a review of employment law that re levels the playing field...brings back some social conscience....that's probably unlikely without great social upheaval...but that upheaval is where current 'management' and Govt policies are taking us.
