Who is Oldmedow?
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I done a Internet search on 'im - 'is names Ian Oldmeadow - an I came up with these jus fer openers
Sir Peter Abeles' appointment of Mr Ian Oldmeadow, a former senior industrial officer with the ACTU, who was appointed in late 1985 to Ansett's senior industrial relations position this one comes from ere A pilot's perspective
an then this one,
The FR’s list of those who have jumped on to the big business gravy train includes Len Coysh a former executive director of the Australian Federation of Air Pilots, and Ian Oldmeadow, a former senior ACTU industrial advocate. They both went to Ansett and, no doubt, helped to smash the Pilot’s Federation. It come from ereJumping on the gravy train
Then this was me third one
The Bracks Government is paying thousands of dollars a day for consultants to co-ordinate its tough campaign against public sector union pay claims.
To help advise the Government on the deals, a husband and wife team from Sydney, Ian and Justine Oldmeadow, of Oldmeadow Consulting, are getting a reputed $2800 a day to oversee the Government's position.
Mr Oldmeadow is a former ACTU industrial officer, working on aviation issues, who became an Ansett executive in the late 1980s and then a Qantas industrial relations manager until 1997. His role is to provide strategic advice, which he has been doing at least since November. an it come from this one
Thousands paid for union row consultants
Sounds like e's a mercinry barstid who enjoys bustin peoples lives apart.
Be seein youse round.
Sir Peter Abeles' appointment of Mr Ian Oldmeadow, a former senior industrial officer with the ACTU, who was appointed in late 1985 to Ansett's senior industrial relations position this one comes from ere A pilot's perspective
an then this one,
The FR’s list of those who have jumped on to the big business gravy train includes Len Coysh a former executive director of the Australian Federation of Air Pilots, and Ian Oldmeadow, a former senior ACTU industrial advocate. They both went to Ansett and, no doubt, helped to smash the Pilot’s Federation. It come from ereJumping on the gravy train
Then this was me third one
The Bracks Government is paying thousands of dollars a day for consultants to co-ordinate its tough campaign against public sector union pay claims.
To help advise the Government on the deals, a husband and wife team from Sydney, Ian and Justine Oldmeadow, of Oldmeadow Consulting, are getting a reputed $2800 a day to oversee the Government's position.
Mr Oldmeadow is a former ACTU industrial officer, working on aviation issues, who became an Ansett executive in the late 1980s and then a Qantas industrial relations manager until 1997. His role is to provide strategic advice, which he has been doing at least since November. an it come from this one
Thousands paid for union row consultants
Sounds like e's a mercinry barstid who enjoys bustin peoples lives apart.
Be seein youse round.
He was subsequently employed by Cathay during their Cabin Crew Strike and, a year later, their Tech Crew Industrial campaign. Having destroyed those two unions he then took up a consultancy position with Qantas and has been the architect of all the industrial issues that QF has confronted it's staff with in recent years. Not the sort of person that I would invite to dinner.
GB
GB
Yeah, I remember Oldmeadow back in about 78-79 only time I was ever in a union (Apes?).
At a meeting regarding a pay dispute OUR Rep, Oldmeadow said something like:
"Now the company have offered you x%. I know thats a lot less than you agreed you wanted, but that is their offer.
Now of course it is up to you if you want to accept it, but I've fought a hard fight to get even this much from them and I can't get anymore so if you don't accept it then you are on your own".
If I remember correctly he was followed by Judith bornstien who was just as bad.
The good old industrial relations club at work.
At a meeting regarding a pay dispute OUR Rep, Oldmeadow said something like:
"Now the company have offered you x%. I know thats a lot less than you agreed you wanted, but that is their offer.
Now of course it is up to you if you want to accept it, but I've fought a hard fight to get even this much from them and I can't get anymore so if you don't accept it then you are on your own".
If I remember correctly he was followed by Judith bornstien who was just as bad.
The good old industrial relations club at work.
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Ugly person
Certainly wouldn't be on the christmas card list of many.
A true turncoat
As to his current whereabouts you will find him hiding under a rock between QF and J* making sure everybody fights with everybody, nobody is happy and the visitors to QF (ie: current management) think they continue to stay one step ahead of the employees, whilst lining their pockets.
What goes around will eventually come around and a few thousand years of history will attest to that!
A true turncoat
As to his current whereabouts you will find him hiding under a rock between QF and J* making sure everybody fights with everybody, nobody is happy and the visitors to QF (ie: current management) think they continue to stay one step ahead of the employees, whilst lining their pockets.
What goes around will eventually come around and a few thousand years of history will attest to that!
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AIPA COM has seriously underestimated this man. Their arrogance knows no bounds. Once again the membership gets done over - Jetstar, Jetconnect, Aus. Airlines, Jetstar Asia - courtesy of Oldmeadow's influence in Mahogany Row.
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Anyone planning to give this person a berth...I suggest you make it a wide one.
One of the few people put on this Earth who will have nowhere to go after departing this mortal coil.
Even the Devil himself denies the duplicitous.
One of the few people put on this Earth who will have nowhere to go after departing this mortal coil.
Even the Devil himself denies the duplicitous.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
So did ANY of the airlines he advised actually benefit from his input?
He cost Ansett hundreds of millions of dollars, by advocating that the company not deal with the union.
Similarly he did the same to Cathay, in a protracted, festering industrial battle, that saw CX wet lease aircraft from mainland China, in the expectation that the pilots would strike. It never happened, and CX was stuck with a bill for millions of dollars for aircraft and crew they couldn't utilise.
In both cases the pilots' unions were battered, but not destroyed.
It's all just a GAME, when you're using opsm...other peoples' money!!
In many cases, I believe that he may have helped pilots, as individuals are now far more likely to take an ACTIVE interest in their contractual obligations and rights, which is eventually going to lead to far stronger united pilot groups.
He cost Ansett hundreds of millions of dollars, by advocating that the company not deal with the union.
Similarly he did the same to Cathay, in a protracted, festering industrial battle, that saw CX wet lease aircraft from mainland China, in the expectation that the pilots would strike. It never happened, and CX was stuck with a bill for millions of dollars for aircraft and crew they couldn't utilise.
In both cases the pilots' unions were battered, but not destroyed.
It's all just a GAME, when you're using opsm...other peoples' money!!
In many cases, I believe that he may have helped pilots, as individuals are now far more likely to take an ACTIVE interest in their contractual obligations and rights, which is eventually going to lead to far stronger united pilot groups.
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Yep, and he is good at it.
And like Perry Mason he's never lost a fight. Every time he's taken the pilots on the pilots have lost. AIPA against Oldmeadow and co would be no contest.
And like Perry Mason he's never lost a fight. Every time he's taken the pilots on the pilots have lost. AIPA against Oldmeadow and co would be no contest.
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bombshell and bonvol are right on the money. He is doing the job he is paid to do. As KaptinM says, he's wasted some money but no doubt money that thecompanies were willing to spend as an investment in their futures. No such thing as a free lunch. It's a bit like insurance; you have to spend it to safeguard your options down the track.
Anybody, includingpilots (particularly those who think themselves invincible) who find themselves on the opposite side should prepare themselves for defeat. Maybe that should be crushing defeat.
I have a friend who was part of the 89 dispute, and early in the proceedings a relative (European by birth) rang and told him something like"You guys don't know who you are $%^&*$# with. Abeles is a Hungarian Jew and there are no worse people in the world to take on. He will win, so go and get your job back."
Abeles obviously knew about Oldmeaqdow's capabilitiesand that's why he was there. He did a job on the pilots but didn't they walk into it!!
As for the links, if you want to read a largely biased, inaccurate observation of the events then read Alex Paterson's blurb.
I thnk some of us have a grossly incorrect view of life and industrial relations in the late 20th and early 21st centuries. Oldmeadow is just doing a job. People's futures, livelihoods and families don't come into it. You're just a number and if he can get you or somebody else to do it for less, then you're in his sights.
He's one of the new generation of execs who get %% of what they save the company. He has my admiration not for the way he treats people (he's required to do that) but for his success at doing it.
Anybody, includingpilots (particularly those who think themselves invincible) who find themselves on the opposite side should prepare themselves for defeat. Maybe that should be crushing defeat.
I have a friend who was part of the 89 dispute, and early in the proceedings a relative (European by birth) rang and told him something like"You guys don't know who you are $%^&*$# with. Abeles is a Hungarian Jew and there are no worse people in the world to take on. He will win, so go and get your job back."
Abeles obviously knew about Oldmeaqdow's capabilitiesand that's why he was there. He did a job on the pilots but didn't they walk into it!!
As for the links, if you want to read a largely biased, inaccurate observation of the events then read Alex Paterson's blurb.
I thnk some of us have a grossly incorrect view of life and industrial relations in the late 20th and early 21st centuries. Oldmeadow is just doing a job. People's futures, livelihoods and families don't come into it. You're just a number and if he can get you or somebody else to do it for less, then you're in his sights.
He's one of the new generation of execs who get %% of what they save the company. He has my admiration not for the way he treats people (he's required to do that) but for his success at doing it.
Would not John Raby be a more dangerous foe than Ian Oldmeadow?
Mr Raby has been instrumental in keeping the conditions of Australian domestic pilots at quite low levels. Now the competition-Jetstar-following suite. With eventual ramifications for QF pilots aswell.
With a good knowledge of the international pilot market and experience in pilot industrial matters, a formidable foe and I sure hope he retires soon.
Alas, too late, the damage done. Look after your mates as best you can these days.
Mr Raby has been instrumental in keeping the conditions of Australian domestic pilots at quite low levels. Now the competition-Jetstar-following suite. With eventual ramifications for QF pilots aswell.
With a good knowledge of the international pilot market and experience in pilot industrial matters, a formidable foe and I sure hope he retires soon.
Alas, too late, the damage done. Look after your mates as best you can these days.
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Agreed Gandenburg, a tough call between him and Oldmeadow, but he started right from ground level. He knew there were hundreds of Oz pilots who would want to come home, got himself a good contract with Branson, and then screwed his mates. I reckon it could be argued that he is solely responsible for the degradation of pilots' conditions in Oz.
I read somewhere recently that his shareholding in Virgin Blue could be worth up to $12 mill.
Oldmeadow, on the other hand, comes in and does a hatchet job with great effect. I think Oldmeadow would be the tougher adversary..
Bear in mind,Raby was paying about what Virgin were paying guys to work in the UK, so coming home and living ofr about a quarter of what it was costing in the UK must have sounded like a deal too good to resist. They were willingly screwed, and if any had taken the oracle of world aviation's advice (kaptinm that is) they would have boycotted Virgin in Australia thereby denying them a start. Yeah right.
But more important than looking after your mates, because they will be looking after themselves at your expense if you are not careful, is looking after yourself and your family just like those who had the commonsense to go back to work in 89.
I read somewhere recently that his shareholding in Virgin Blue could be worth up to $12 mill.
Oldmeadow, on the other hand, comes in and does a hatchet job with great effect. I think Oldmeadow would be the tougher adversary..
Bear in mind,Raby was paying about what Virgin were paying guys to work in the UK, so coming home and living ofr about a quarter of what it was costing in the UK must have sounded like a deal too good to resist. They were willingly screwed, and if any had taken the oracle of world aviation's advice (kaptinm that is) they would have boycotted Virgin in Australia thereby denying them a start. Yeah right.
But more important than looking after your mates, because they will be looking after themselves at your expense if you are not careful, is looking after yourself and your family just like those who had the commonsense to go back to work in 89.
I respectfully suggest that you guys are all talking about tactics, but not strategy, and when you look at the strategic position of commercial airline pilots its not good.
To put it simply, the law of supply and demand applies to your profession.
Fortunately or Unfortunately, depending on your point of view, it appears that there are a zillion wannabee airline pilots out there. Read some of the Dunnunda threads like "how you will know when you've made it?" and so on.
In other words, there are plenty of takers for your jobs.
As a result, management is simply going to apply the law of supply and demand and lower pilot's wages until the quality of recruits begins to fall off. At that point they will stop and bump them up again.
I guess its just like leaning a carburetted aircraft engine (if any of you remember them?).
I'm not sure how you reduce the supply of pilots to keep wages up, apart from fighting another war or instigating a massive increase in tourism demand.
To put it simply, the law of supply and demand applies to your profession.
Fortunately or Unfortunately, depending on your point of view, it appears that there are a zillion wannabee airline pilots out there. Read some of the Dunnunda threads like "how you will know when you've made it?" and so on.
In other words, there are plenty of takers for your jobs.
As a result, management is simply going to apply the law of supply and demand and lower pilot's wages until the quality of recruits begins to fall off. At that point they will stop and bump them up again.
I guess its just like leaning a carburetted aircraft engine (if any of you remember them?).
I'm not sure how you reduce the supply of pilots to keep wages up, apart from fighting another war or instigating a massive increase in tourism demand.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
"....he's (Oldmeadow) wasted some money but no doubt money that thecompanies were willing to spend as an investment in their futures."
An empiric experiment that failed.
Abeles is a Hungarian Jew and there are no worse people in the world to take on. He will win, so go and get your job back
Instead, Oldmeadow GROSSLY underestimated the resolve of the pilot group, and the fight dragged on for several months, costing the airlines far in excess of any potential gains they might have expected to have achieved for probably 20 years.
Abeles visibly demonstrated his frustration with the lack of results achieved by following Oldmeadow's advice, when he appeared on Channel Nine's Sixty Minutes, stating that he'd rather "shut Ansett down, than deal with the AFAP". When questioned as to whether he really would do that, Abeles quavered and hesitated, before finally blurting out an unconvincing "Yes".
Oldmeadow's tactics are not smart, they are initially
(i)an attempt at whittling away at the employees' conditions, to
(ii)create a feeling of personal insecurity, and
(iii)a belief that the employees' representative union is powerless to help, and
(iv)a possible alternative supplier of labour, should there be a confrontation.
The very expensive steps of setting up the separate companies of Australian and JetStar to achieve the above, have now been supplemented by QF's buy-in to J* Asia - away from the reaches of Australian Industrial laws and unions.
Oldmeadow might like to THINK he is a professional I.R. advisor, but in reality he is an I.R. QUACK, tempting company heads and CEO's with the carrot of greatly increased financial rewards, but in reality EXPERIMENTING - and to date nothing achieved, but a trail of destruction of companies, personnel, and wasted hundreds of millions of $$$'s!
Edited to answer Johnny Utah. J.R. was hired as an employee. How much input does the Chief pilot of QF have in determining the salary structure and work conditions there, or any other company? 1989 saw the successful introduction of "individual contracts" - management pilots have ALWAYS been on slightly different terms of employment to line pilots.
The topic is about Oldmeadow - the I.R. Quack - how about we stick to that.
Start a separate thread if you feel the need.
Last edited by Kaptin M; 9th Oct 2004 at 00:02.
Kaptin M - what about JR ? Where does he stand on the "Oldmeadow Scale" of IR greatness (or lack thereof)....? 
Chimbu - which parts did you find to be
?
Chimbu - which parts did you find to be
complete and utter ****e
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Let's be totally honest - he cost Ansett, TAA, East-West and IPEC their ENTIRE airline eventually.
Ansett died of natural causes 12 years after the event. TAA became QF domestic, something that had zero to do with the dispute. East West and IPEC went down for reasons wholly divorced from the dispute.
You constant harping on this irrelevant point, for no other reason than to further your own opinions on that now distant event, does your credibiiity no good.