When push comes to shove (Jetstar)
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Sinala,
I do not believe Jedda was being nasty or bitchy. Ansett - the GOOD old Ansett pre-Abeles - set a world standard for inflight and ON GROUND passenger service that was mimicked and copied by other airlines. Singapore Airlines for example based their inflight service on Reginald Ansett's ideals.
Qantas has NEVER been "up there" in the books regarding customer service - Australian Airlines was not a lot better (TAA came close to Ansett). I imagine perhaps JetFart uses QN training, which is not necessarily a good thing.
Take this from someone at the pointy end of the tubes you fly in - you guys need MAJOR improvement! DJ is HEADS AND SHOULDERS ahead of ALL current Australian airlines in terms of service, friendliness, and courteous staff.
Old time AN hosties were NOT bitchy - some were aloof. They were because they WERE the best - RM would have it no other way! Why hire second rate employees that deal DIRECTLY with, and project the image of the airline to the customers????
AN "Old Boilers" had, and most still do, have CLASS that most current FA's could only dream about. I have yet to witness a single JetFart FA (not talking Hairy Legged) worth a second look - they show no head-truning grace, poise, or WOW factor.
It is a sad turn when airlines have to trun to T shirts on employees to cut their image in half.... I can just see the authority of a T shirt clad FA during a ditching, when they blend in with the rest of the thong wearing screaming crescendo trying to exit.
I do not believe Jedda was being nasty or bitchy. Ansett - the GOOD old Ansett pre-Abeles - set a world standard for inflight and ON GROUND passenger service that was mimicked and copied by other airlines. Singapore Airlines for example based their inflight service on Reginald Ansett's ideals.
Qantas has NEVER been "up there" in the books regarding customer service - Australian Airlines was not a lot better (TAA came close to Ansett). I imagine perhaps JetFart uses QN training, which is not necessarily a good thing.
Take this from someone at the pointy end of the tubes you fly in - you guys need MAJOR improvement! DJ is HEADS AND SHOULDERS ahead of ALL current Australian airlines in terms of service, friendliness, and courteous staff.
Old time AN hosties were NOT bitchy - some were aloof. They were because they WERE the best - RM would have it no other way! Why hire second rate employees that deal DIRECTLY with, and project the image of the airline to the customers????
AN "Old Boilers" had, and most still do, have CLASS that most current FA's could only dream about. I have yet to witness a single JetFart FA (not talking Hairy Legged) worth a second look - they show no head-truning grace, poise, or WOW factor.
It is a sad turn when airlines have to trun to T shirts on employees to cut their image in half.... I can just see the authority of a T shirt clad FA during a ditching, when they blend in with the rest of the thong wearing screaming crescendo trying to exit.
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Ditz
I have agreed, up to now, with your erudite posts as they have added a balanced viewpoint from the workers' side of the game.
I felt your post, pre-edit of the gratuitous comment about a certain type of frustration, was over the top and felt it appropriate to make my views felt.
I don't think my reply was overly personal as it just addressed your comments.
I am sorry if you now feel aggrieved but hey, you made the comments about female pax with kids. in a less than pleasant manner - I am sure it is a bitch when they behave that way but that is part of the job and its admirable if you can grit your teeth and pass the peanuts (on jet*?).
Cheers
Pug
I have agreed, up to now, with your erudite posts as they have added a balanced viewpoint from the workers' side of the game.
I felt your post, pre-edit of the gratuitous comment about a certain type of frustration, was over the top and felt it appropriate to make my views felt.
I don't think my reply was overly personal as it just addressed your comments.
I am sorry if you now feel aggrieved but hey, you made the comments about female pax with kids. in a less than pleasant manner - I am sure it is a bitch when they behave that way but that is part of the job and its admirable if you can grit your teeth and pass the peanuts (on jet*?).
Cheers
Pug
Last edited by pug munter; 11th Aug 2004 at 01:23.
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RTA,
I really don't think JetSTAR pax are going to be worrying about:
".... head-truning grace, poise, or WOW factor."
These are people that would normally catch the bus, if flights weren't so cheap now days. They would rather have someone they can relate to, NOT a GLAMOUR FA.
As for the 'T-shirts', remember this is a BUDGET airline.
Welcome to the 21ST century.
I really don't think JetSTAR pax are going to be worrying about:
".... head-truning grace, poise, or WOW factor."
These are people that would normally catch the bus, if flights weren't so cheap now days. They would rather have someone they can relate to, NOT a GLAMOUR FA.
As for the 'T-shirts', remember this is a BUDGET airline.
Welcome to the 21ST century.
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Pug
I think that ditzyboy was just making a few observations from his experience.
There is nothing in the post that can be inferred about how he handles them.
I have clients who, in any other circumstance, I wouldn't give the time of day, however that does not mean that I provide any less a professional service to those clients than I do to those I enjoy working with.
I think that ditzyboy was just making a few observations from his experience.
There is nothing in the post that can be inferred about how he handles them.
I have clients who, in any other circumstance, I wouldn't give the time of day, however that does not mean that I provide any less a professional service to those clients than I do to those I enjoy working with.
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DJ is HEADS AND SHOULDERS ahead of ALL current Australian airlines in terms of service, friendliness, and courteous staff
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Shy Hi,
Yep, JetFart is a Budget Airline, and it shows GLARINGLY. Funnily enough, Virgin Blue is ALSO a budget airline (J* set up to compete against them), and they don't feel the need to resort to T-Shirts...
DJ's uniform is casual enough, but darned enticing, especially with the VERY attractive hosties they usually employ (chauvinist male coming out in me)
Might be the 21st century, but is there a need to drop time honoured professionalism in regards to professional attire?
As I mentioned, in the case of a ditching, or crash, where is the "authority figure" that is so obvious with a properly uniformed FA? In times of old, FA's would don their uniform hats, which was like a beacon "Follow me". What now with J*? At least the DJ uniform is a UNIFORM, and does stand out from the passenger attire.
As a Pointy Ender, I must mention that I would much rather wear the uniform of old - jacket with stripes, shirt with eppaulettes, tie, and polished shoes, with a peaked cap.... It's NOT a snobby thing, it's a sign of authority. After paying half a life's wages in training to get where you dreamt to be, you deserve to say "Yeah, I'm an airline captain. I made it. I'm not some glorified bus driver".
Anyway, enough ramble. Call me old fashioned (for a 31 year old!)...
Yep, JetFart is a Budget Airline, and it shows GLARINGLY. Funnily enough, Virgin Blue is ALSO a budget airline (J* set up to compete against them), and they don't feel the need to resort to T-Shirts...
DJ's uniform is casual enough, but darned enticing, especially with the VERY attractive hosties they usually employ (chauvinist male coming out in me)
Might be the 21st century, but is there a need to drop time honoured professionalism in regards to professional attire?
As I mentioned, in the case of a ditching, or crash, where is the "authority figure" that is so obvious with a properly uniformed FA? In times of old, FA's would don their uniform hats, which was like a beacon "Follow me". What now with J*? At least the DJ uniform is a UNIFORM, and does stand out from the passenger attire.
As a Pointy Ender, I must mention that I would much rather wear the uniform of old - jacket with stripes, shirt with eppaulettes, tie, and polished shoes, with a peaked cap.... It's NOT a snobby thing, it's a sign of authority. After paying half a life's wages in training to get where you dreamt to be, you deserve to say "Yeah, I'm an airline captain. I made it. I'm not some glorified bus driver".
Anyway, enough ramble. Call me old fashioned (for a 31 year old!)...
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As a Pointy Ender, I must mention that I would much rather wear the uniform of old - jacket with stripes, shirt with eppaulettes, tie, and polished shoes, with a peaked cap.... It's NOT a snobby thing, it's a sign of authority
especially with the VERY attractive hosties they usually employ
As I mentioned, in the case of a ditching, or crash, where is the "authority figure" that is so obvious with a properly uniformed FA?
) I am fairly sure that my commands and assertiveness would be just as audible and obeyed if I was wearing a black tshirt and pants, and the pax had seen me wearing that all flight, and had interacted with me already in an FA role - I personally think that they would identify me and my crew as being authority figures. All that said though, I am not denying the positive effects of an immediately identifiable uniform - just look at firemen/police officers for example - everyone recognises them, and sees them as figures of safety/authority.
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Pug -
"Sure, $2 please." 
I dunno what all this fuss about T-Shirts is for.... I cannot believe we used to serve 117 pax a hot dinner (with a choice), bar service and hot drinks on 40 minute flights wearing shirts, vests and jackets for takeoff and landing. Crazy! These T-shirts are so much more comfortable than any other of the four uniforms I have worn and SO MUCH MORE PRACTICAL too! Pax tell us we look much more comfortable and that the uniform is both simple AND smart. (The jackets are simply vile though, IMHO!)
I am all for being glamorous. Let me tell you it was very hard to feel glamourous in TSV wearing the latest QF uniform with sweat soaking your uniform down both sides! It looked hideous and made it much hard to feel glamourous and project that "WOW factor", some are so hard about...
RTA -
What utter garbage. I like DJs uniform. But to say it stands out from male pax wearing tan pants and a white shirt is simply ludicris! How many pax do you see wearing dayglo ORANGE? None - not even our pax have dress sense that tragic! How is JQs uniform not a uniform, as you say? Every staff member wears a piece from the collection allocated to us... Is that not a uniform?
I totally agree with Sinala. Pax know who the crew is because we deal with them as part of the pax-crew 'relationship' from the moment we greet them in the lounge. I have not yet had a problem with communicating with pax due to the style of my shirt or the orange lapels that temporarily blind some of them!
The whole idea of the more casual uniform (as pioneered by DJ!) is so that pax are not uncomortable in approaching us and to make the atmosphere more relaxed. Mission accomplished. As far as I am concerned.
Thanks. We were wondering
We have some hotties too. And they happen to be the ones without facial hair!
All you people with these complexes about the industry having to be glamorous are really funny. Being glamorous starts with YOU. Those of you that think a uniform, pay packet or the average fare a pax pays make you glamorours are deluded.
Jedda -
Jetstar is every bit as much an airline as AN was. *yawn* And I am very happy with the way I project myself to pax. If you ever saw for yourself I think you would agree. But thanks heaps for your constructive comments.
and pass the peanuts (on jet*?)
I dunno what all this fuss about T-Shirts is for.... I cannot believe we used to serve 117 pax a hot dinner (with a choice), bar service and hot drinks on 40 minute flights wearing shirts, vests and jackets for takeoff and landing. Crazy! These T-shirts are so much more comfortable than any other of the four uniforms I have worn and SO MUCH MORE PRACTICAL too! Pax tell us we look much more comfortable and that the uniform is both simple AND smart. (The jackets are simply vile though, IMHO!)
I am all for being glamorous. Let me tell you it was very hard to feel glamourous in TSV wearing the latest QF uniform with sweat soaking your uniform down both sides! It looked hideous and made it much hard to feel glamourous and project that "WOW factor", some are so hard about...
RTA -
At least the DJ uniform is a UNIFORM, and does stand out from the passenger attire.
I totally agree with Sinala. Pax know who the crew is because we deal with them as part of the pax-crew 'relationship' from the moment we greet them in the lounge. I have not yet had a problem with communicating with pax due to the style of my shirt or the orange lapels that temporarily blind some of them!
The whole idea of the more casual uniform (as pioneered by DJ!) is so that pax are not uncomortable in approaching us and to make the atmosphere more relaxed. Mission accomplished. As far as I am concerned.
chauvinist male coming out in me
We have some hotties too. And they happen to be the ones without facial hair! All you people with these complexes about the industry having to be glamorous are really funny. Being glamorous starts with YOU. Those of you that think a uniform, pay packet or the average fare a pax pays make you glamorours are deluded.
Jedda -
Jetstar is every bit as much an airline as AN was. *yawn* And I am very happy with the way I project myself to pax. If you ever saw for yourself I think you would agree. But thanks heaps for your constructive comments.
Last edited by ditzyboy; 12th Aug 2004 at 00:03.
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Ditzy.
I loved your post as I have seen it all exactly as you stated.
Its those same scrags who drive into your car in the supermarket car park in their 4 wheel drive, talk loudly to a 3 yearold explaining everything in multi syllable words the kid has no idea about and giving it too many choices.
The trouble is in their world the kid is God. Life only exists to serve their Golden Child. Sad.
I loved your post as I have seen it all exactly as you stated.
Its those same scrags who drive into your car in the supermarket car park in their 4 wheel drive, talk loudly to a 3 yearold explaining everything in multi syllable words the kid has no idea about and giving it too many choices.
The trouble is in their world the kid is God. Life only exists to serve their Golden Child. Sad.
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I feel pretty confident that even if I was naked I could evacuate the cabin with a similar (if not exact same) level of efficiency as I would in full uniform
Well I guess when it comes down to it, no matter what you are wearing black t-shirt, collared white shirt or..... in Sinala1's case birthday suit it doesn't matter. If you can provide the best customer service and exceed all pax expectations with a bright friendly smile to boot, it doesn't matter what uniform you are wearing.
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I think we are all forgetting that,according to C.A.A.,the only reason to have cabin crew is to evacuate the cabin in case of an emergency.
How individuals conduct themselves in the rest of their jobs reflects the training they have had.I have been a pax with both Jet * and Virgin.All crew were great.No complaints.Virgin did impress with their pre take off briefing.
Down to Earth and Wings Away are having a combined lunch on 17 August.If any cabin crew are in town ,join us and compare notes.I can guarantee we have similar tales;most pax are good;it's the occasional b**** whoruins your day.
Keep safe.
P.S. Wings Away & D.T.E. are T.A.A. & Ansett for the young at heart.
How individuals conduct themselves in the rest of their jobs reflects the training they have had.I have been a pax with both Jet * and Virgin.All crew were great.No complaints.Virgin did impress with their pre take off briefing.
Down to Earth and Wings Away are having a combined lunch on 17 August.If any cabin crew are in town ,join us and compare notes.I can guarantee we have similar tales;most pax are good;it's the occasional b**** whoruins your day.
Keep safe.
P.S. Wings Away & D.T.E. are T.A.A. & Ansett for the young at heart.
R.T.A,
Actually I'd go as far as to say Jet* have near 50% former AN F/A's employed as Cabin Managers - so you'd be contradicting yourself.
Well lets hope they are employed for things other than looking glamourous - eg. friendliness, education and perhaps an ability to deal with in-flight emergencies.
I could probably assume you'd be still unemployed...
...if it came to your looks and not your qualifications.
And I can assure you, there are some good sorts working there too, so your observations are obviously flawed.
Old time AN hosties were NOT bitchy - some were aloof. They were because they WERE the best - RM would have it no other way!
Why hire second rate employees that deal
Why hire second rate employees that deal
AN "Old Boilers" had, and most still do, have CLASS that most current FA's could only dream about. I have yet to witness a single JetFart FA (not talking Hairy Legged) worth a second look - they show no head-truning grace, poise, or WOW factor.
I could probably assume you'd be still unemployed...
As a Pointy Ender
And I can assure you, there are some good sorts working there too, so your observations are obviously flawed.
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Watchdog,
I think you missed the gist of what I was saying....
I am NOT referring to ANY FA's from withing the last 20 years! As I said, OLD TIME AN FA's. You know, early 80's, even back to the 70's. A LOT changed mid-1980's.
I was also NOT referring to J* FA's in todays environment in regards to your retort to my mention about RM Ansett employing only the best - He employed the CREAM of the crop, and they projected the image for him. I was NOT saying that J* or TAA, or AN, or EW or whoeeverweren't the best selected, I am merely pointing out Reg's rationale / attitiude to employment of FA's.
As to your second retort, most assuredly they DID! Never met an even remotely incompetent one yet. They wouldn't last if they were incompetent.
As to your last remark, I am confused a bit there, as you COMPLETELY took out of context what I wrote.
I know it is VERY hard to adequately convey emotion / meaning etc to written words, and a LOT of what we write get's taken out of context and desired meaning.
There is NO malice involved with anything I have written, just observations over MANY years (including being an Airline brat pre-employment - TAA)
I have to admit DitzyBoy's original comments did inspire the "WTF is this hairy legger on about?" For offering opinions, I apologise.
I think you missed the gist of what I was saying....
I am NOT referring to ANY FA's from withing the last 20 years! As I said, OLD TIME AN FA's. You know, early 80's, even back to the 70's. A LOT changed mid-1980's.
I was also NOT referring to J* FA's in todays environment in regards to your retort to my mention about RM Ansett employing only the best - He employed the CREAM of the crop, and they projected the image for him. I was NOT saying that J* or TAA, or AN, or EW or whoeeverweren't the best selected, I am merely pointing out Reg's rationale / attitiude to employment of FA's.
As to your second retort, most assuredly they DID! Never met an even remotely incompetent one yet. They wouldn't last if they were incompetent.
As to your last remark, I am confused a bit there, as you COMPLETELY took out of context what I wrote.
I know it is VERY hard to adequately convey emotion / meaning etc to written words, and a LOT of what we write get's taken out of context and desired meaning.
There is NO malice involved with anything I have written, just observations over MANY years (including being an Airline brat pre-employment - TAA)
I have to admit DitzyBoy's original comments did inspire the "WTF is this hairy legger on about?" For offering opinions, I apologise.
Possums, I think that Qantas has a real problem on its hands. Its called cannibalism.
Qantas cannot pitch Jetstar at VB because if it did, it risks cannibalising its own Qantas dometic operation. Thats why Qantas made JetStar a really "budget" airline with no seat allocations and all the other prickly bits.
My guess is that there are also those withing Qantas who are sh1t scared that Jetstar is the future, and who would like to see it fail.
VB has far better service then Jetstar and they actually make flying seem like fun, even for old roues like me. I like their "blue room" thing as well, sitting and watching home theatre movies is more fun then reading every business magazine on the rack and crappy TV.
Qantas cannot pitch Jetstar at VB because if it did, it risks cannibalising its own Qantas dometic operation. Thats why Qantas made JetStar a really "budget" airline with no seat allocations and all the other prickly bits.
My guess is that there are also those withing Qantas who are sh1t scared that Jetstar is the future, and who would like to see it fail.
VB has far better service then Jetstar and they actually make flying seem like fun, even for old roues like me. I like their "blue room" thing as well, sitting and watching home theatre movies is more fun then reading every business magazine on the rack and crappy TV.
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RTA
You want to wear a cap, in the 21st Century??
I have been trying for the last 33 years (not just 31 years of age) NOT to wear such a ridiculous thing, although wearing Her Majesty's uniform with a crown on each epaulette, a rather smart "Sam Browne" on which hung a Sword, ceremonial, did make up for that minor inconvenience.
If you don't hold, or have never held, the Queen's Commission, forget the cap crap.
You want to wear a cap, in the 21st Century??
I have been trying for the last 33 years (not just 31 years of age) NOT to wear such a ridiculous thing, although wearing Her Majesty's uniform with a crown on each epaulette, a rather smart "Sam Browne" on which hung a Sword, ceremonial, did make up for that minor inconvenience.
If you don't hold, or have never held, the Queen's Commission, forget the cap crap.
RTA
thanks for your explanations. I re-read your posts, and still get the impression that you are saying the quality of a FA is based on their looks/poise etc & uniform. Your posts portray you as sexist & a male chauvanist. Sure, things have changed over the last thirty years - we don't wear flares anymore either.
I agree the VB uniform looks good, the QF best and JQ poorest. Intimates the amount of $$ spent producing it i'd imagine.
With regards authority (emergency) - the VB white shirt/brown trousers/skirt would actually be less recognisible than the QF or even the JQ black/orange. (I wore white/brown on the tarmac recently - several people thought I was a VB pilot). In any case, in a smoke filled cabin, someone screaming "COME THIS WAY...GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT !! " through a loud hailer is going to command plenty of authority irrespective of their style of attire.
thanks for your explanations. I re-read your posts, and still get the impression that you are saying the quality of a FA is based on their looks/poise etc & uniform. Your posts portray you as sexist & a male chauvanist. Sure, things have changed over the last thirty years - we don't wear flares anymore either.
I agree the VB uniform looks good, the QF best and JQ poorest. Intimates the amount of $$ spent producing it i'd imagine.
With regards authority (emergency) - the VB white shirt/brown trousers/skirt would actually be less recognisible than the QF or even the JQ black/orange. (I wore white/brown on the tarmac recently - several people thought I was a VB pilot). In any case, in a smoke filled cabin, someone screaming "COME THIS WAY...GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT !! " through a loud hailer is going to command plenty of authority irrespective of their style of attire.
