Dick threatens to sue AsA
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
C'mon DICK SMITH, this was a cheap attempt to grab some publicity.
You are above this sort of stunt, and whomever your publicity agent was who decided to run with this, needs your severe reprimand, before it backfires on YOU.
Take control, Dick, and show the leadership qualities that have got you to the position that you are in.
{Just as a sideline, yesterday I had to make a go-around.
Today I'm here to talk about it!}
Edit:- Worlds Worst, your ignorance of separation standards between IFR-IFR and IFR-VFR aircraft is suitably demonstrated by your pathetic post, that probably might catch the sympathy of a non-aviating layman. (Your name isn't John A. is it?)
Sit back down in seat 34C, fasten your seat belt, and shut the fcuk up!
You are above this sort of stunt, and whomever your publicity agent was who decided to run with this, needs your severe reprimand, before it backfires on YOU.
Take control, Dick, and show the leadership qualities that have got you to the position that you are in.
{Just as a sideline, yesterday I had to make a go-around.
Today I'm here to talk about it!}
Edit:- Worlds Worst, your ignorance of separation standards between IFR-IFR and IFR-VFR aircraft is suitably demonstrated by your pathetic post, that probably might catch the sympathy of a non-aviating layman. (Your name isn't John A. is it?)
Sit back down in seat 34C, fasten your seat belt, and shut the fcuk up!
Last edited by Kaptin M; 8th Jul 2004 at 22:40.
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Yeah, sorry Ferris, mate – forgot that they’d had all day to look at the crossword. How about:
28 Across: (5,2,3,5): Wild wild throw with a deranged snort – could this indicate how good they are?
- o - - - , i - , - - - , - o - - - .
Oh, and Kaptin M,
I always thought you knew how to keep 'em apart. Guess that's why I'm WORLD'S WORST.
28 Across: (5,2,3,5): Wild wild throw with a deranged snort – could this indicate how good they are?
- o - - - , i - , - - - , - o - - - .
Oh, and Kaptin M,
I always thought you knew how to keep 'em apart. Guess that's why I'm WORLD'S WORST.
Not exactly on point, but this story may give a further insight into Dick's perspective on the world. Coincidentally, the story involves Dick's Caravan and water.
A recent edition of a flying-related magazine contains a story about a ferry flight of Dick's Caravan from the US back to Australia. All the preliminaries to the flight went well, then this:
I wonder how many of you welcome those kinds of surprises, and encourage your colleagues to make their own judgment about putting things on paper.
An interesting aside: the story made some very good points about the difficulty in getting insurance for these kinds of flights. I wonder what the insurance company would have done if the pilot had decided to return to the departure aerodrome, but the aircraft had been damaged as a result difficulties in manoeuvring or landing at MTOW times 2.
Finally, I note that the ferry tanks all have "Dick Smith Foods" labels on them. A message from Dick's PA: Dick says thanks for me tanks, Aussie taxpayers!
A recent edition of a flying-related magazine contains a story about a ferry flight of Dick's Caravan from the US back to Australia. All the preliminaries to the flight went well, then this:
I [the ferry pilot] lifted off at around 3000 feet, climbing at 100 foot a minute, began a gentle left turn then boom! I had a red light staring me in the face saying 'beta'. Damn – if the prop goes into beta then it is going to be cold dunking here, and a quick one too! For those that don't know what beta does, it is used after landing to twist the propellers into a flatter position thereby acting as a brake. [Then follows a description of the ferry pilot's ensuing mental turmoil and options assessment] Meanwhile, I ran my head around the prop governing system and decided that it had to be physically put into 'beta'. I would keep going … must be a micro switch.
[On arrival at Honolulu] I immediately rang Dick and asked if he knew about this Beta light. He confirmed that he did, that it was a micro switch and had forgotten to tell me about it. …
[On arrival at Honolulu] I immediately rang Dick and asked if he knew about this Beta light. He confirmed that he did, that it was a micro switch and had forgotten to tell me about it. …
An interesting aside: the story made some very good points about the difficulty in getting insurance for these kinds of flights. I wonder what the insurance company would have done if the pilot had decided to return to the departure aerodrome, but the aircraft had been damaged as a result difficulties in manoeuvring or landing at MTOW times 2.
Finally, I note that the ferry tanks all have "Dick Smith Foods" labels on them. A message from Dick's PA: Dick says thanks for me tanks, Aussie taxpayers!
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So, Kaptin M.
I’ve just pulled MATS from my overhead storage locker here at 34C. Didn’t realize how much really useful stuff is in here. Even talks about being nice to pilots – even VFR pilots. Something about providing a service.
Let me see if I’ve got this right.
V1 – 500 feet
1. Between IFR and VFR flights; or
2. Between SVFR flights, where SVFR clearance is due to visibility.
And
1. Both aircraft are 7,000 KG or less;
2. Both aircraft are at or below 10,000 FT;
And
3. Traffic information is provided to the IFR flight, unless it is impracticable.
So, if I’m right, 1000 applies here.
Now, sure, I could assign 7500 on climb, or 9500 on descent, but my poor old IFR jockey might get real nervous at a VFR level – so maybe, as a caring and considerate controller, I might just pick the nearest available IFR level – maybe, er, let me think, 7,000 for the climber, and, er, um, let me think again, er, 10,000 for the descender.
Ooops – and I thought I was the world’s worst!
Oh well, back to the drawing board.
I’ve just pulled MATS from my overhead storage locker here at 34C. Didn’t realize how much really useful stuff is in here. Even talks about being nice to pilots – even VFR pilots. Something about providing a service.
Let me see if I’ve got this right.
V1 – 500 feet
1. Between IFR and VFR flights; or
2. Between SVFR flights, where SVFR clearance is due to visibility.
And
1. Both aircraft are 7,000 KG or less;
2. Both aircraft are at or below 10,000 FT;
And
3. Traffic information is provided to the IFR flight, unless it is impracticable.
So, if I’m right, 1000 applies here.
Now, sure, I could assign 7500 on climb, or 9500 on descent, but my poor old IFR jockey might get real nervous at a VFR level – so maybe, as a caring and considerate controller, I might just pick the nearest available IFR level – maybe, er, let me think, 7,000 for the climber, and, er, um, let me think again, er, 10,000 for the descender.
Ooops – and I thought I was the world’s worst!
Oh well, back to the drawing board.
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World's Worst
Let me see if I have got this right, X number of aluminium tubes filled with say a thousand people at least, block off some 3000 feet of airspace, climb or descent restriction burning heaven knows how many extra Kg of fuel just to let the DS royal entourage bumble through Sydney's airspace after flying single engine over water for all that time.
Sorry, I don't get it.
Let me see if I have got this right, X number of aluminium tubes filled with say a thousand people at least, block off some 3000 feet of airspace, climb or descent restriction burning heaven knows how many extra Kg of fuel just to let the DS royal entourage bumble through Sydney's airspace after flying single engine over water for all that time.
Sorry, I don't get it.
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Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear,
You controllers are just so bloody stupid. Der, wake up!
The point is, ****su, that slack-a**ed controllers, earning $125,000 a year, refused a clearance to a VFR flight at 8,500 feet, out of pure badness. He wasn't even landing at Sydney.
Forget who it was, and forget what he said in the paper. Your mates screwed over an aircraft asking for a legitimate and grantable clearance. It happens EVERY day in Sydney, in case you hadn’t realized. VFR flights get refused into Sydney so often now they don’t even ask anymore. Melbourne, Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane, Cairns, Launceston, Hobart, Albury, Rockhampton, Alice Springs, Darwin, Williamtown, East Sale, Moorabin, Townsville, Maroochydore, Tamworth, Bankstown, Mackay, Archerfield, Parafield, Jandakot, Canberra – even poor old Gerry at Camden – know how to issue a clearance – AND separate a VFR aircraft from another aircraft.
Sydney controllers should hang their heads in shame. They are the world’s absolute worst proponents of the art. Shame, shame, shame, on you!!
16 down: (4, 2, 3, 6) Clint is mixed, but she arranged to see the snow end turn – what would make them happy?
Just got your barb, bobster.
Let me see. Where in MATS does it say that an aircraft with 200 people gets priority over an aircraft with 2?
Do you think that a VFR flight doing maybe 200kts is really going to hold up Mr IFR for long? Should I block 3000 feet for 20 minutes? Ever heard of a paper stop level? How long have you been doing air traffic control - 2 minutes? Give me a break. You really are pathetic.
Better go to the sim and do some refresher training.
You controllers are just so bloody stupid. Der, wake up!
The point is, ****su, that slack-a**ed controllers, earning $125,000 a year, refused a clearance to a VFR flight at 8,500 feet, out of pure badness. He wasn't even landing at Sydney.
Forget who it was, and forget what he said in the paper. Your mates screwed over an aircraft asking for a legitimate and grantable clearance. It happens EVERY day in Sydney, in case you hadn’t realized. VFR flights get refused into Sydney so often now they don’t even ask anymore. Melbourne, Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane, Cairns, Launceston, Hobart, Albury, Rockhampton, Alice Springs, Darwin, Williamtown, East Sale, Moorabin, Townsville, Maroochydore, Tamworth, Bankstown, Mackay, Archerfield, Parafield, Jandakot, Canberra – even poor old Gerry at Camden – know how to issue a clearance – AND separate a VFR aircraft from another aircraft.
Sydney controllers should hang their heads in shame. They are the world’s absolute worst proponents of the art. Shame, shame, shame, on you!!
16 down: (4, 2, 3, 6) Clint is mixed, but she arranged to see the snow end turn – what would make them happy?
Just got your barb, bobster.
Let me see. Where in MATS does it say that an aircraft with 200 people gets priority over an aircraft with 2?
Do you think that a VFR flight doing maybe 200kts is really going to hold up Mr IFR for long? Should I block 3000 feet for 20 minutes? Ever heard of a paper stop level? How long have you been doing air traffic control - 2 minutes? Give me a break. You really are pathetic.
Better go to the sim and do some refresher training.
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World’s Worst
I must admit, this is a very insightful analysis of ATC workload, worthy of Winstun at his best.
Now, let’s see. Given that four aircraft per person, per fifteen minutes comes nowhere near being busy (certainly not overloaded), perhaps we should implement a new Sydney staffing plan.
An immediate staff cut to two at a time is in order, allowing each controller to handle 32 aircraft per hour, or eight on frequency at a time, allowing some capacity for unannounced VFR transits. Let’s call it “World’s Worst Practise” to give credit where it’s due. Given that we will need some of the best controllers to do the job, let’s hire both WW and Winnie Churchall for operations on day one.
Extract from Sydney transcript, Day 1
WW: “Well Winnie, we finally got rid of all them pesky controllers. Let’s show them how it’s really done!”
Winnie: “You bet, Worstie!”
WW: “Look, here come some arriving aeroplanes. They look just like the ones on FlightSim2000. This shouldn’t be too hard…….. ABC cleared to land.”
Winnie: “Friggin’ bone, mate, let me have a go……. DEF cleared to land”
WW: “Well, so far, so good, Winnie.”
Winnie: “Hey Worstie, I’ve just thought of something. If we keep handling all these jets at 80 per hour, we’re gonna run out of parking spots for them by lunchtime.”
WW: “Strewth mate, you’re right. Those bludging ATCs who used to work here yesterday must have struck the same thing. I wonder where they put them all?!”
Aircraft: “Worst Tower, Airline 123, requesting airway clearance.”
Winnie: “Friggin’ bone mate, these bustards wanna depart! Won’t that increase the traffic to………. about double what we had when we just counted the arrivals?”
WW: “Um, uh…. now twp time the number you first thought of and carry the 1……I think you’re right Winnie”
Winnie: Anfd all I ever wanted was to become a web page designer, and pretend to be Canadian rather than Australian! Why, oh why did I ever get Flight Sim?!"
The moral of the story: There are lies, dammed lies and statistics. When collated by the “World’s Worst” each should be used with extreme caution.
Nowhere, but it does say that RPT landing SY get priority over GA landing BK. Priorities are published in AIP also.
A cap of 80 movements an hour, and 4 positions open at any one time, and I’m being conservative. I make that 15 aircraft an hour per position. Now in a 15 minute window, which is about as long as it would have taken Dick to transit the airspace, any one controller would have been talking to the huge number of four aircraft.
Now, let’s see. Given that four aircraft per person, per fifteen minutes comes nowhere near being busy (certainly not overloaded), perhaps we should implement a new Sydney staffing plan.
An immediate staff cut to two at a time is in order, allowing each controller to handle 32 aircraft per hour, or eight on frequency at a time, allowing some capacity for unannounced VFR transits. Let’s call it “World’s Worst Practise” to give credit where it’s due. Given that we will need some of the best controllers to do the job, let’s hire both WW and Winnie Churchall for operations on day one.
Extract from Sydney transcript, Day 1
WW: “Well Winnie, we finally got rid of all them pesky controllers. Let’s show them how it’s really done!”
Winnie: “You bet, Worstie!”
WW: “Look, here come some arriving aeroplanes. They look just like the ones on FlightSim2000. This shouldn’t be too hard…….. ABC cleared to land.”
Winnie: “Friggin’ bone, mate, let me have a go……. DEF cleared to land”
WW: “Well, so far, so good, Winnie.”
Winnie: “Hey Worstie, I’ve just thought of something. If we keep handling all these jets at 80 per hour, we’re gonna run out of parking spots for them by lunchtime.”
WW: “Strewth mate, you’re right. Those bludging ATCs who used to work here yesterday must have struck the same thing. I wonder where they put them all?!”
Aircraft: “Worst Tower, Airline 123, requesting airway clearance.”
Winnie: “Friggin’ bone mate, these bustards wanna depart! Won’t that increase the traffic to………. about double what we had when we just counted the arrivals?”
WW: “Um, uh…. now twp time the number you first thought of and carry the 1……I think you’re right Winnie”
Winnie: Anfd all I ever wanted was to become a web page designer, and pretend to be Canadian rather than Australian! Why, oh why did I ever get Flight Sim?!"
The moral of the story: There are lies, dammed lies and statistics. When collated by the “World’s Worst” each should be used with extreme caution.
Let me see. Where in MATS does it say that an aircraft with 200 people gets priority over an aircraft with 2?
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Worlds Worst, why would ATC follow these proceedured of yours that I quote?
"Now, sure, I could assign 7500 on climb, or 9500 on descent, but my poor old IFR jockey might get real nervous at a VFR level – so maybe, as a caring and considerate controller, I might just pick the nearest available IFR level – maybe, er, let me think, 7,000 for the climber, and, er, um, let me think again, er, 10,000 for the descender."
AIP clearly states that commercial RPT jets have priority over GA aircraft. ENR 1.4-10
What you suggest would put GA VFR aircraft priority over RPT.
You proport to know what should be done, but demonstrate that you don't, this has an effect on you credability.
Your writing demeanor and appararent arrogance suggests to me that you have another agenda to your posts, rather than just to ask why did this happen?
Your post's is misguided, you should be whingeing to the people who make the laws, not those who work within them.
"Now, sure, I could assign 7500 on climb, or 9500 on descent, but my poor old IFR jockey might get real nervous at a VFR level – so maybe, as a caring and considerate controller, I might just pick the nearest available IFR level – maybe, er, let me think, 7,000 for the climber, and, er, um, let me think again, er, 10,000 for the descender."
AIP clearly states that commercial RPT jets have priority over GA aircraft. ENR 1.4-10
What you suggest would put GA VFR aircraft priority over RPT.
You proport to know what should be done, but demonstrate that you don't, this has an effect on you credability.
Your writing demeanor and appararent arrogance suggests to me that you have another agenda to your posts, rather than just to ask why did this happen?
Your post's is misguided, you should be whingeing to the people who make the laws, not those who work within them.
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ah, 4711, you smell so sweet - I used to give 4711 eau de cologne to my mother for Xmas - and even she knew how to recognise incompetence amongst controllers.
S-T - guess the first 4 letters of your callsign truely identify you - I don't actually need the O2 to which you so eruditely refer. I live on the methane that eminates from the rear ends on slack-a**ed Sydney controllers who don't give a s**t. New colostomy bag required!
Down draught - are you so ignorant and insensitive that you would just refuse a clearance to a VFR aircraft because a non-legal document like AIP says RPT have priority.
That's just hogwash. Check again, windy feathers. I am NOT saying give RPT priotity over VFR - I AM saying a VFR coming in off the ocean - that's from the east to you Sydney people - which will cross over a down-wind stream for 34, or under a departure stream from 16, is a REAL easy manage.
You guys at Sydney haven't a clue about air traffic control.
It's an over-statement of your ability to say that you even recognised Dick's callsign.
Come into the 19th century, guys - give a VFR a chance. They won't bite! They talk, therefore they are!!!
Oh, pppppsssss......who wrote the AIP anyway.... it wouldn't happen to have been air traffic controllers from AirNOservices Australia.
What legal head of power does the AIP have anyway. There is ABSOLUTELY no legal head of power for your rediculous priority system. None at all.
Dick - try them on that and you are ABSOLUTELY sure to win - and they are scared sh**less that someone will twig. There is NO legal authority for the priority system in MATS. NONE!
S-T - guess the first 4 letters of your callsign truely identify you - I don't actually need the O2 to which you so eruditely refer. I live on the methane that eminates from the rear ends on slack-a**ed Sydney controllers who don't give a s**t. New colostomy bag required!
Down draught - are you so ignorant and insensitive that you would just refuse a clearance to a VFR aircraft because a non-legal document like AIP says RPT have priority.
That's just hogwash. Check again, windy feathers. I am NOT saying give RPT priotity over VFR - I AM saying a VFR coming in off the ocean - that's from the east to you Sydney people - which will cross over a down-wind stream for 34, or under a departure stream from 16, is a REAL easy manage.
You guys at Sydney haven't a clue about air traffic control.
It's an over-statement of your ability to say that you even recognised Dick's callsign.
Come into the 19th century, guys - give a VFR a chance. They won't bite! They talk, therefore they are!!!
Oh, pppppsssss......who wrote the AIP anyway.... it wouldn't happen to have been air traffic controllers from AirNOservices Australia.
What legal head of power does the AIP have anyway. There is ABSOLUTELY no legal head of power for your rediculous priority system. None at all.
Dick - try them on that and you are ABSOLUTELY sure to win - and they are scared sh**less that someone will twig. There is NO legal authority for the priority system in MATS. NONE!
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World's Worst
First, I'm not ATC.
Next Q. With so few track miles from Sydney to Bankstown, I wonder what DS's descent point was? Or was DS going to do a crash dive. If so does a C208 have dive brakes? I can see the bleeding ears now.
Finally, I still think some 200 people have more rights than 2. Its called sense of proportion.
First, I'm not ATC.
Next Q. With so few track miles from Sydney to Bankstown, I wonder what DS's descent point was? Or was DS going to do a crash dive. If so does a C208 have dive brakes? I can see the bleeding ears now.
Finally, I still think some 200 people have more rights than 2. Its called sense of proportion.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
No-one has ever stated that clearance for VFR flights will NEVER be available, WW - it just happens that at the time our (self proclaimed) intrepid adventurer asked for it, it wasn't!
When separation standards are already at their minimum between aircraft, and each sector has his/her maximum number of traffic - and this is something that is enforced worldwide - it is simply NOT (SAFELY) POSSIBLE to squeeze another aircraft in, regardless of size.
Out of "pure badness".
Surely the multi, multi MILLIONAIRE, flying one of his SEVERAL leisure aircraft, making this long, overwater flight - at UNNECESSARY GREAT RISK to his family - in a single engined aircraft, and with his in depth knowledge of aviation matters, is aware that a PRIVATE VFR category carries the lowest priority.
If SAFETY really was an issue with him, why did he expose his family to it in the first instance, assuming he is in possession of his full mental faculties?
Have you ever heard of an aircraft with 200 people being held, awaiting onward clearance?
Have all day, every day of the year, at just about every major airport around the world, WW.
Welcome to the 21st century!
Venture outside of that little POND that you're swimming in, and have a look at what's going on in the OCEANS around you.
YOU are not the ONLY one in the sky.
When separation standards are already at their minimum between aircraft, and each sector has his/her maximum number of traffic - and this is something that is enforced worldwide - it is simply NOT (SAFELY) POSSIBLE to squeeze another aircraft in, regardless of size.
The point is, ****su, that slack-a**ed controllers, earning $125,000 a year, refused a clearance to a VFR flight at 8,500 feet, out of pure badness.
Surely the multi, multi MILLIONAIRE, flying one of his SEVERAL leisure aircraft, making this long, overwater flight - at UNNECESSARY GREAT RISK to his family - in a single engined aircraft, and with his in depth knowledge of aviation matters, is aware that a PRIVATE VFR category carries the lowest priority.
If SAFETY really was an issue with him, why did he expose his family to it in the first instance, assuming he is in possession of his full mental faculties?
Where in MATS does it say that an aircraft with 200 people gets priority over an aircraft with 2?
Have all day, every day of the year, at just about every major airport around the world, WW.
Welcome to the 21st century!
Venture outside of that little POND that you're swimming in, and have a look at what's going on in the OCEANS around you.
YOU are not the ONLY one in the sky.
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Ah, me old mate Bobster.
Not an ATC. How hard it must be to exist on less than $100,000 a year. How do you cope? Guess you must drink , dare I say, Jacob's Creek! How ghastly.
One must learn to disassociate oneself from the poor..
Sense of proportion? Oh, look, there's a 747 about to pass close to an A340 - oh my god, 600 people in danger - turn left immediately - oh, shock horror, another 600 people at risk - give me a break.
They're returns on a screen, for god's sake. Who cares how many people on board. If you're worried - don't become a controller!
Ah my old mate Kaptin M.
So, a Sydney controller was REEEEAAAALLLLY busy. Better recant what I said.
Should have known he/she actually had ...wait for it.. 5 aircraft on frequency!
Stop touching the old fella and pay attention.
Forget who was at the end of the microphone.
An aircraft asked an underworked, overpaid controller for a clearance and was pointblank refused.
YOU are paid to provide a service - NOT to DISCRIMINATE.
You failed - live with it.
Not an ATC. How hard it must be to exist on less than $100,000 a year. How do you cope? Guess you must drink , dare I say, Jacob's Creek! How ghastly.
One must learn to disassociate oneself from the poor..
Sense of proportion? Oh, look, there's a 747 about to pass close to an A340 - oh my god, 600 people in danger - turn left immediately - oh, shock horror, another 600 people at risk - give me a break.
They're returns on a screen, for god's sake. Who cares how many people on board. If you're worried - don't become a controller!
Ah my old mate Kaptin M.
So, a Sydney controller was REEEEAAAALLLLY busy. Better recant what I said.
Should have known he/she actually had ...wait for it.. 5 aircraft on frequency!
Stop touching the old fella and pay attention.
Forget who was at the end of the microphone.
An aircraft asked an underworked, overpaid controller for a clearance and was pointblank refused.
YOU are paid to provide a service - NOT to DISCRIMINATE.
You failed - live with it.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
"They're returns on a screen, for god's sake. Who cares how many people on board"
Looks like we've got a live one here!!
I hope for EVERYONES' sake that you are in NO way involved in ANY aspect of aviation, with that sort of comment, World's Worst!!
You have just lost ALL credibility.
Looks like we've got a live one here!!
I hope for EVERYONES' sake that you are in NO way involved in ANY aspect of aviation, with that sort of comment, World's Worst!!
You have just lost ALL credibility.
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Ahh, Kaptin M.
A true patriot!
My gosh - that's Qantas xxx, 747, must have at leat 400 precious Australians aboard. Bugger the fact that it's just a radar target - I'm really concerned that it might run into something.
Oh, no! Look, another NOT target - could be 300 lives in danger.
Oh, no! I've got anther two aircraft on frequency. Just think, 1200 people's lives in these little hands. Hope I don't scew it up!
How could I live with myself.
Should have cleared a few VFR aircraft - at least if THEY crashed I'd only kill 10 people!
You Sydney controller's are so pathetic.
Get real and provide the service you get paid $125,000 to do.
A true patriot!
My gosh - that's Qantas xxx, 747, must have at leat 400 precious Australians aboard. Bugger the fact that it's just a radar target - I'm really concerned that it might run into something.
Oh, no! Look, another NOT target - could be 300 lives in danger.
Oh, no! I've got anther two aircraft on frequency. Just think, 1200 people's lives in these little hands. Hope I don't scew it up!
How could I live with myself.
Should have cleared a few VFR aircraft - at least if THEY crashed I'd only kill 10 people!
You Sydney controller's are so pathetic.
Get real and provide the service you get paid $125,000 to do.
World's Worst,
You said:
MATS has nothing whatever to do with the original action.
The legal relationship between pilots and controllers under CAR 100 (4) is that "the pilot in command of an aircraft is responsible for compliance with air traffic control clearances and air traffic control instructions".
The liability of ATC is determined in accordance with the principles of common law in particular, negligence and the standard is measured by what a reasonable person of ordinary prudence would do in the circumstances.
Negligence comprises three elements:
1. the existence of a duty of care owed to the plaintiff by the defendant;
2. a breach of that duty; and
3. damages to the person resulting from the breach, provided that there is some 'relation' or 'proximity' between the parties.
A plaintiff will fail in the action unless damage of a kind recognised by law is proved and it must be caused by the act or omission complained of.
The duty of care owed by controllers is "to take reasonable care to give all such instructions and advice as may be necessary to promote the safety of aircraft within their area of responsibility" (Shawcross and Beaumont, 1977).
This duty of care arises because the ‘proximity’ of controllers and pilots is determined by the degree of reliance existing in the relationship. That is, pilots are reliant upon the acts, advice or information provided by controllers, however the pilot is still legally responsible for the safety of the aircraft and its passengers. The controller is legally responsible for the safety of the air traffic control instructions." (Hopkin 1995:28)
Airservices Australia is vicariously liable for any negligent act or omission on the part of a controller because legislation prohibits an employee being joined as a co-defendant or from being sued by a plaintiff.
The duties and responsibilities of an air traffic controller are detailed in the Manual of Air Traffic Services.
Now, get back in your box!
A
You said:
Dick - try them on that and you are ABSOLUTELY sure to win - and they are scared sh**less that someone will twig. There is NO legal authority for the priority system in MATS. NONE!
The legal relationship between pilots and controllers under CAR 100 (4) is that "the pilot in command of an aircraft is responsible for compliance with air traffic control clearances and air traffic control instructions".
The liability of ATC is determined in accordance with the principles of common law in particular, negligence and the standard is measured by what a reasonable person of ordinary prudence would do in the circumstances.
Negligence comprises three elements:
1. the existence of a duty of care owed to the plaintiff by the defendant;
2. a breach of that duty; and
3. damages to the person resulting from the breach, provided that there is some 'relation' or 'proximity' between the parties.
A plaintiff will fail in the action unless damage of a kind recognised by law is proved and it must be caused by the act or omission complained of.
The duty of care owed by controllers is "to take reasonable care to give all such instructions and advice as may be necessary to promote the safety of aircraft within their area of responsibility" (Shawcross and Beaumont, 1977).
This duty of care arises because the ‘proximity’ of controllers and pilots is determined by the degree of reliance existing in the relationship. That is, pilots are reliant upon the acts, advice or information provided by controllers, however the pilot is still legally responsible for the safety of the aircraft and its passengers. The controller is legally responsible for the safety of the air traffic control instructions." (Hopkin 1995:28)
Airservices Australia is vicariously liable for any negligent act or omission on the part of a controller because legislation prohibits an employee being joined as a co-defendant or from being sued by a plaintiff.
The duties and responsibilities of an air traffic controller are detailed in the Manual of Air Traffic Services.
Now, get back in your box!
A
Last edited by Atlas Shrugged; 9th Jul 2004 at 03:05.
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Number of VFR clearance requests in SY TMA for May, 2004: 592
Number of VFR clearances delayed in excess of five minutes awaiting clearance in SY TMA for May, 2004: 2
Number of VFR clearances refused in SY TMA for May, 2004: 3
I think you made your point that deleted is unnecessary W
Number of VFR clearances delayed in excess of five minutes awaiting clearance in SY TMA for May, 2004: 2
Number of VFR clearances refused in SY TMA for May, 2004: 3
I think you made your point that deleted is unnecessary W
Last edited by Woomera; 9th Jul 2004 at 08:07.
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So, let's get this right, only three VFR clearances refused out of 592 for that month.
Wow, it's embarrassing when you've been shooting your mouth off, then the facts emerge and make you look totally stupid and petulant.
Better go register again under yet another name, WW.
Wow, it's embarrassing when you've been shooting your mouth off, then the facts emerge and make you look totally stupid and petulant.
Better go register again under yet another name, WW.