Regulator fails Jetstar crew on safety
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Regulator fails Jetstar crew on safety
Mon "Melbourne Age"
Regulator fails Jetstar crew on safety
By Scott Rochfort
June 28, 2004
Jetstar may face delays with the launch of its fleet of Airbus 320s after the aviation safety regulator "failed" the Jetstar crew delivering the first of the aircraft from France.
Casting doubts on Jetstar's ability to bring its first A320 into service on July 20, Civil Aviation Safety Authority inspectors questioned the expertise of the budget airline's crew after it was flown from the Airbus factory to Melbourne on Monday.
"There were certain issues raised by us in relation to the operation of that flight which Jetstar are addressing," CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said.
CASA would not specify the problems, only to say they were not "show stoppers".
Despite Jetstar still being without the necessary air operators certificate (AOC) to put its A320s into commercial service, Mr Gibson said: "The process of upgrading the certificate to include the A320s is progressing satisfactorily."
Jetstar's present AOC only allows it to operate Boeing 717s.
Set to take delivery of 23 A320s by mid-2006, the 177-seat aircraft will gradually replace Jetstar's fleet of 14 125-seat Boeing 717s over the next two years and will form the backbone of the airline's plans to eventually expand beyond the east coast of Australia.
The airline's corporate relations manager, Simon Westaway, said he was confident the first Jetstar A320s would enter service by July 20.
When asked about the Jetstar crew being failed on the delivery flight, Mr Westaway said: "We think it's inappropriate to comment on matters between the regulator and the licence holder."
Jetstar is set to hold a series of "proving" flights for the aircraft out of Sydney this week. In order to obtain an AOC, Jetstar must prove it can carry out all the necessary procedures to safely operate a fleet of A320s; from flying, maintenance, keeping records and having adequately trained crew.
Virgin Blue encountered similar problems with its own launch four years ago, when it was forced to resubmit its AOC papers.
The first Jetstar A320 is slated for services from Sydney to the Sunshine Coast, and Sunshine Coast to Avalon airport near Geelong. Jetstar plans to add one A320 to its fleet each month, before using the aircraft to expand westward later in the year.
Already operating on 14 destinations along the east coast, Jetstar plans to use the A320 to open up new destinations such as Alice Springs, Ayers Rock, Darwin, Broome, Townsville and Adelaide after November.
There are suspicions Jetstar will eventually replace Qantas domestic services on lower yielding non-capital city routes dominated by holiday travellers. The launch of Jetstar one month ago has already seen Qantas pull out services to Hamilton Island, Proserpine and the Sunshine Coast.
Amid talk Qantas could one day just concentrate on routes with higher yielding business traffic (Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne), the Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation's managing director, Peter Harbison, said: "Whether or not it comes [down to] capital city routes will be just a matter of playing it day by day."
But Mr Harbison predicted more cheap airfares, given Qantas's desire to claw back some of the 34 per cent market share Virgin has snared since the collapse of Ansett.
"I'm quite sure that Qantas has got the real intention to get their market share back to 80 per cent, or 75 per cent at least," he said.
Added to the huge amount of capacity coming into the market with the delivery of Jetstar's A320 fleet, Mr Harbison said there was no doubt the Qantas offshoot would need to offer discount fares to attract passengers.
==========================================
Regulator fails Jetstar crew on safety
By Scott Rochfort
June 28, 2004
Jetstar may face delays with the launch of its fleet of Airbus 320s after the aviation safety regulator "failed" the Jetstar crew delivering the first of the aircraft from France.
Casting doubts on Jetstar's ability to bring its first A320 into service on July 20, Civil Aviation Safety Authority inspectors questioned the expertise of the budget airline's crew after it was flown from the Airbus factory to Melbourne on Monday.
"There were certain issues raised by us in relation to the operation of that flight which Jetstar are addressing," CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said.
CASA would not specify the problems, only to say they were not "show stoppers".
Despite Jetstar still being without the necessary air operators certificate (AOC) to put its A320s into commercial service, Mr Gibson said: "The process of upgrading the certificate to include the A320s is progressing satisfactorily."
Jetstar's present AOC only allows it to operate Boeing 717s.
Set to take delivery of 23 A320s by mid-2006, the 177-seat aircraft will gradually replace Jetstar's fleet of 14 125-seat Boeing 717s over the next two years and will form the backbone of the airline's plans to eventually expand beyond the east coast of Australia.
The airline's corporate relations manager, Simon Westaway, said he was confident the first Jetstar A320s would enter service by July 20.
When asked about the Jetstar crew being failed on the delivery flight, Mr Westaway said: "We think it's inappropriate to comment on matters between the regulator and the licence holder."
Jetstar is set to hold a series of "proving" flights for the aircraft out of Sydney this week. In order to obtain an AOC, Jetstar must prove it can carry out all the necessary procedures to safely operate a fleet of A320s; from flying, maintenance, keeping records and having adequately trained crew.
Virgin Blue encountered similar problems with its own launch four years ago, when it was forced to resubmit its AOC papers.
The first Jetstar A320 is slated for services from Sydney to the Sunshine Coast, and Sunshine Coast to Avalon airport near Geelong. Jetstar plans to add one A320 to its fleet each month, before using the aircraft to expand westward later in the year.
Already operating on 14 destinations along the east coast, Jetstar plans to use the A320 to open up new destinations such as Alice Springs, Ayers Rock, Darwin, Broome, Townsville and Adelaide after November.
There are suspicions Jetstar will eventually replace Qantas domestic services on lower yielding non-capital city routes dominated by holiday travellers. The launch of Jetstar one month ago has already seen Qantas pull out services to Hamilton Island, Proserpine and the Sunshine Coast.
Amid talk Qantas could one day just concentrate on routes with higher yielding business traffic (Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne), the Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation's managing director, Peter Harbison, said: "Whether or not it comes [down to] capital city routes will be just a matter of playing it day by day."
But Mr Harbison predicted more cheap airfares, given Qantas's desire to claw back some of the 34 per cent market share Virgin has snared since the collapse of Ansett.
"I'm quite sure that Qantas has got the real intention to get their market share back to 80 per cent, or 75 per cent at least," he said.
Added to the huge amount of capacity coming into the market with the delivery of Jetstar's A320 fleet, Mr Harbison said there was no doubt the Qantas offshoot would need to offer discount fares to attract passengers.
==========================================
Last edited by Wirraway; 27th Jun 2004 at 14:49.
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Interesting... VERY interesting!
Sort of corroborates a few things some have said PERHAPS.
I assume that the delivery flight of the inaugural A320 would HAVE to have been done by the A320 type specialist. Now, that'd be A.S would it not?
Sort of corroborates a few things some have said PERHAPS.
I assume that the delivery flight of the inaugural A320 would HAVE to have been done by the A320 type specialist. Now, that'd be A.S would it not?
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
"[i]Jetstar may face delays with the launch of its fleet of Airbus 320s after the aviation safety regulator "failed" the Jetstar crew delivering the first of the aircraft from France.
Casting doubts on Jetstar's ability to bring its first A320 into service on July 20, Civil Aviation Safety Authority inspectors questioned the expertise of the budget airline's crew after it was flown from the Airbus factory to Melbourne on Monday.
"There were certain issues raised by us in relation to the operation of that flight which Jetstar are addressing," CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said.
CASA would not specify the problems,
Casting doubts on Jetstar's ability to bring its first A320 into service on July 20, Civil Aviation Safety Authority inspectors questioned the expertise of the budget airline's crew after it was flown from the Airbus factory to Melbourne on Monday.
"There were certain issues raised by us in relation to the operation of that flight which Jetstar are addressing," CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said.
CASA would not specify the problems,
WTF do journo's encourage that Harbison character.
What sort of informed intellectual comment is
A self proclaimed consultant should ba able to offer predictive informed advice. Not some ar$e covering, bet hedging, wishy washy statement that a high school student could make up.
It's about as useful as a meteorologist saying "it will rain" to a farmer.
[/RANT]
CS on another midnight linguistic tirade.
What sort of informed intellectual comment is
Whether or not it comes [down to] capital city routes will be just a matter of playing it day by day."
It's about as useful as a meteorologist saying "it will rain" to a farmer.
[/RANT]
CS on another midnight linguistic tirade.
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Standing by for beaucoup ranting and raving by all the experts who know all about operating a jet but nothing about operating a jet airline. 
Can't wait for someone to suggest it wouldn't have happened if they paid them more.
Can't wait for someone to suggest it wouldn't have happened if they paid them more.
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Not necessarily itchy. Many have suggested that these guys should heve held out for more money thus creating a better bargaining situation for all pilots in Oz. But that doesn't really have much to do with this little hiccup, does it?
Keg has suggested previously that the major problem that QF pilots have with the Impulse pilots, is that they are acceptable to the QF Group only on an income which is significantly below the going rate. Well, now it comes back to bite them. If indeed these guys and gals were rejected by QF, then there remains a possibility that it was for a reason.
So this really has nothing to do with pay, but everything to do with standards. I know my family won't be jumping on a Jetstar flight for the forseeable future.
Keg has suggested previously that the major problem that QF pilots have with the Impulse pilots, is that they are acceptable to the QF Group only on an income which is significantly below the going rate. Well, now it comes back to bite them. If indeed these guys and gals were rejected by QF, then there remains a possibility that it was for a reason.
So this really has nothing to do with pay, but everything to do with standards. I know my family won't be jumping on a Jetstar flight for the forseeable future.
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Slightly confused guys, so bear with me...
1) Impulse gets purchased by QF to operate as Qantaslink, and now, Jetstar.
2) Whilst I know of some pilots who have applied to Qantas (and some have got in, some haven't), I doubt ALL have applied, in particular the 89-er's who are with us (and please, let's not go down the 89 road with this thread...)
3) Does calling these pilots 'John West rejects' actually achieve anything? No. So why bother? It's done - true, I don't necessarily agree with the agreement they made, but it's done.
4) Would there be the debate that there is about the altered Agreement if these guys were NOT part of the QF Group? QF would have used the T&C reached by these pilots as the benchmark for large-narrow bodied a/c anyway...whether or not they were part of the QF Group.
5) Aren't they in the process of reaching a Career Progression-style agreement where for every 6-ish commands, there's one for someone from QF and vice versa? Last thing I heard about their IPC and AIPA.
Guys - it's done. You need to move on and try to do the best with what's provided. Calling each other names only demeans the point you're each trying to make.
1) Impulse gets purchased by QF to operate as Qantaslink, and now, Jetstar.
2) Whilst I know of some pilots who have applied to Qantas (and some have got in, some haven't), I doubt ALL have applied, in particular the 89-er's who are with us (and please, let's not go down the 89 road with this thread...)
3) Does calling these pilots 'John West rejects' actually achieve anything? No. So why bother? It's done - true, I don't necessarily agree with the agreement they made, but it's done.
4) Would there be the debate that there is about the altered Agreement if these guys were NOT part of the QF Group? QF would have used the T&C reached by these pilots as the benchmark for large-narrow bodied a/c anyway...whether or not they were part of the QF Group.
5) Aren't they in the process of reaching a Career Progression-style agreement where for every 6-ish commands, there's one for someone from QF and vice versa? Last thing I heard about their IPC and AIPA.
Guys - it's done. You need to move on and try to do the best with what's provided. Calling each other names only demeans the point you're each trying to make.
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For goodness sake grow up you lot and stop your back stabbing.
If anyone has information regarding why this occurred then let them say so. The reasons for failure may be a lesson to the aviation community.
Otherwise just go away
If anyone has information regarding why this occurred then let them say so. The reasons for failure may be a lesson to the aviation community.
Otherwise just go away
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Flyspray. Nice post. Plenty to contribute yourself, not. This is a rumour network, isn't it? Thats what the name says? Then how about you allow a little discussion, without your own brand of censorship?
The fact that CASA has found reason that these people aren't operating correctly makes a fairly profound statement, doesn't it?
The fact that CASA has found reason that these people aren't operating correctly makes a fairly profound statement, doesn't it?
Yorik,
(And YES I know I'm repeating myself, but then so are these clowns!)
Didn't CASA have a little to say about your mob when you parked one on the fairway?
And YES, it DID make a profound statement, one that's been largely ignored by egos like yours.
(And YES I know I'm repeating myself, but then so are these clowns!)
Didn't CASA have a little to say about your mob when you parked one on the fairway?
And YES, it DID make a profound statement, one that's been largely ignored by egos like yours.
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how in the world would some CASA looser know even the front end of a jet, let alone critise the safety. Personally I would like to know the facts. But when you get some looser who never got out of GA (refer to DJ loosers) saying these things, hmmmmmmmm welll????
bring it on you bitches and scabs!!!! sont forget the loosers who could only get out of GA to DJ by paying for a job....
bring it!!!
and if my spelling is wrong who gives a toss, flying a 747 doesnt need grammer, it needs ANC!!!!
go figure.
bring it on you bitches and scabs!!!! sont forget the loosers who could only get out of GA to DJ by paying for a job....
bring it!!!
and if my spelling is wrong who gives a toss, flying a 747 doesnt need grammer, it needs ANC!!!!
go figure.
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QF and wanking it,
This has to be a wind up. Nobody could be THAT stupid.
If it's not, then it's no wonder that your mob parked a 747 on a fairway in BGK.
It's been said before, and no doubt it will be again. Just because a pilot was rejected by an airline doesnt mean he was not good enough. He was just not good enough on the day, that is out of the group of interviewees, he wasn't one of the top, or what the panel saw as the top. In another group he might stand out and the position would be quite different.
As well as that he may have had an off day in the sim and didn't fly the NDB approach well or something similar. Of course, a QF typoe like you would never have a bad day. Maybe a bad hair day, but not a bad day.
Now I've seensome awfully bad pilots who did get in, and some very good ones who didn't, so your logic is cocked up.
With your attitude it surprises me that they didn't knock yoju back because of a lack of maturity.
Spelling? You're right in that you don't need to be able to spell well to fly a 747, or a kite for that matter, but you do need a degree of intelligence and I'm not sure you possess much of that commodity.
This has to be a wind up. Nobody could be THAT stupid.
If it's not, then it's no wonder that your mob parked a 747 on a fairway in BGK.
It's been said before, and no doubt it will be again. Just because a pilot was rejected by an airline doesnt mean he was not good enough. He was just not good enough on the day, that is out of the group of interviewees, he wasn't one of the top, or what the panel saw as the top. In another group he might stand out and the position would be quite different.
As well as that he may have had an off day in the sim and didn't fly the NDB approach well or something similar. Of course, a QF typoe like you would never have a bad day. Maybe a bad hair day, but not a bad day.
Now I've seensome awfully bad pilots who did get in, and some very good ones who didn't, so your logic is cocked up.
With your attitude it surprises me that they didn't knock yoju back because of a lack of maturity.
Spelling? You're right in that you don't need to be able to spell well to fly a 747, or a kite for that matter, but you do need a degree of intelligence and I'm not sure you possess much of that commodity.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
ys120fz, there`s no need to try to explain what you have to jerk-offs like QFandlovinIT - whom I sincerely doubt IS a QANTAS pilot.
He`s a wind-up merchant, trying to put QF pilots in a bad light.
But you`ve just GOTTA love his classic
You would HAVE to have 2 dicks, QFandlovinIT
He`s a wind-up merchant, trying to put QF pilots in a bad light.
But you`ve just GOTTA love his classic
and if my spelling is wrong who gives a toss, flying a 747 doesnt need grammer...
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QF and pulling it
There is no doubt about it pal, you have just lifted your skirt and shown the world what a half wit you are. I pity the skipper that has to put up with your crap, on a pond hop. O yes I know, how is it I can tell you are an S/O or at best a F/O that slipped through the filters. Go figure………………………Don’t think about it for to long though my little buddy, I don’t want to read about you.
Arrrr that feels better.
Arrrr that feels better.
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flying a 747 doesnt need grammer, it needs ANC!!!!
But when you get some looser
Chill, Mo-Fo's
ys120fz wrote:
It's been said before, and no doubt it will be again. Just because a pilot was rejected by an airline doesnt mean he was not good enough. He was just not good enough on the day, that is out of the group of interviewees, he wasn't one of the top, or what the panel saw as the top. In another group he might stand out and the position would be quite different.
and are just as "safe"
It's a big world out there. Enjoy!
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Thank you Mr Jarse.
You're quite right of course, timing is everything, although may I make the observation that what may slip through the airline filters very rarely gets past the denizens of PPRuNe unscathed.
Was it Oscar Wilde (he gets blamed for nearly everything), GBS, it might have even been Danny or Rob, who said "let no turn go unstoned"
You're quite right of course, timing is everything, although may I make the observation that what may slip through the airline filters very rarely gets past the denizens of PPRuNe unscathed.
Was it Oscar Wilde (he gets blamed for nearly everything), GBS, it might have even been Danny or Rob, who said "let no turn go unstoned"
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YorikHunt and QFandtuggingitlotsIT - what a pathetic pair of gutter snipes.
I don't recall there being any questions on the QF employment assessment tests regarding ones ability to correlate safe operation of a motorplane with income.
How disgraceful to suggest that any professional pilot would operate his/her aircraft less safely simply because the pay scale is lower than his/her peers.
If so, could you please suggest how much more you would like to be paid to stop leaving your aircraft doors behind at the aeorbridge - pornstar are doing iut much cheaper, and I doubt you will be able to compete.
mmmmmm
I don't recall there being any questions on the QF employment assessment tests regarding ones ability to correlate safe operation of a motorplane with income.
How disgraceful to suggest that any professional pilot would operate his/her aircraft less safely simply because the pay scale is lower than his/her peers.
If so, could you please suggest how much more you would like to be paid to stop leaving your aircraft doors behind at the aeorbridge - pornstar are doing iut much cheaper, and I doubt you will be able to compete.
mmmmmm
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Apart from the press 'data', can anyone say what the hell CASA didn't like about the J* operation? They were there for 6 or so sectors.
There's an argument to say if there was someting they picked up, they should've got off on the spot and grounded the show??
G'day
There's an argument to say if there was someting they picked up, they should've got off on the spot and grounded the show??
G'day