Impulse Pilots - What A Deal!
Thread Starter
Roo Rooter
Are you justifying the conditions you have halved?
I think CASA should "watch" carefully the standard of bare endorsement purchased aswell.
Pilot error due mode confusion and CFIT has cost three Airbus operators. Good endorsement training essential.
A CASA standard should be set. It may well be expensive but the Virgin Blue intro standard you get away with x amount of times.
Anecdotal evidence the VB intro from previous jet airline pilots.
Vigi-one
Geoff Dixon needs you! He will throw RJ's your way and watch you guys undercut each other.
Hugh jarse
You watch Australian and Jetstar fight it out for business in the future.
Are you justifying the conditions you have halved?
I think CASA should "watch" carefully the standard of bare endorsement purchased aswell.
Pilot error due mode confusion and CFIT has cost three Airbus operators. Good endorsement training essential.
A CASA standard should be set. It may well be expensive but the Virgin Blue intro standard you get away with x amount of times.
Anecdotal evidence the VB intro from previous jet airline pilots.
Vigi-one
Geoff Dixon needs you! He will throw RJ's your way and watch you guys undercut each other.
Hugh jarse
You watch Australian and Jetstar fight it out for business in the future.
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Vigi One. That experience tree has been well and truly barked up before. Experience levels are certainly not an issue. "Do unto others" I think the good book says!!
On a really great note. Welcome back to the once redundant gentlemen. You have always been in the picture and were never going to be left behind.
Congratulations and get ready for a very positive time indeed.
All the best whilst training.
Cheereo DM
On a really great note. Welcome back to the once redundant gentlemen. You have always been in the picture and were never going to be left behind.
Congratulations and get ready for a very positive time indeed.
All the best whilst training.
Cheereo DM
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DM, seeing as we live in the same hotel for extended periods I was wondering if I could be cheeky and ask if you are Airbus rated? Other than the crippling seats I can't think of a better 'office' for intensive, low cost ops.
However, for safety's sake alone I'd be pushing for a very strong corps/core of AI experienced folks in from the outset. Fine, keep the group at the same size while deliveries grow but definitely keep them there for the practical knowledge base essential for operational integrity.
Induction of the type presents a few years of perpetual suprises and an entirely more diligent chasing/maintaining of technical knowledge by all.
You've either updated Fcoms for a living or you haven't. It's different, not bad just very different.
PS Have we met in the 10th floor lounge???? Lousy choice of beer there but it is all free
Regards
Rob Lloyd
However, for safety's sake alone I'd be pushing for a very strong corps/core of AI experienced folks in from the outset. Fine, keep the group at the same size while deliveries grow but definitely keep them there for the practical knowledge base essential for operational integrity.
Induction of the type presents a few years of perpetual suprises and an entirely more diligent chasing/maintaining of technical knowledge by all.
You've either updated Fcoms for a living or you haven't. It's different, not bad just very different.
PS Have we met in the 10th floor lounge???? Lousy choice of beer there but it is all free
Regards
Rob Lloyd
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Golow, what more can anybody say?? The I stands for International!! Indeed it does you arrogant turds at QF. Any wonder they are treat edwith contempt by otherpilots. They re good at handing itout.
HughJarse, You re saying what I have been for years. You only get what the employer wants to give you. Bleating heere about not joining VB, PB, JS or whoever to force them to up salaries only puts whoever espouses it in the dreamer class. They don t even make the idealist sector I`m afraid to say, just dreamers.
DJ737, much as I hate to agree, I do. I think, no, I KNOW, that what wereonce considered traditional conditions, ie. endorsements provided are changing. If the ad in the Weekend Australioan calls for a degree and three years post grad work,then thats what they want to hear from, not some jerk with leaving and a builders labourers ticket.
HughJarse, You re saying what I have been for years. You only get what the employer wants to give you. Bleating heere about not joining VB, PB, JS or whoever to force them to up salaries only puts whoever espouses it in the dreamer class. They don t even make the idealist sector I`m afraid to say, just dreamers.
DJ737, much as I hate to agree, I do. I think, no, I KNOW, that what wereonce considered traditional conditions, ie. endorsements provided are changing. If the ad in the Weekend Australioan calls for a degree and three years post grad work,then thats what they want to hear from, not some jerk with leaving and a builders labourers ticket.
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QF are required by statute to provide training at their own expense for existing employees. It's in the CAR's, sorry can't remember the section but read it recently.
Great news for the guys & girls at Impulse!
Great news for the guys & girls at Impulse!
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Gday Towers. Certainly a poor choice of beer but as you say its free!! Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm free beer.
The seats are hard as life is sometimes. The endorsements will be on a standard bond type arrangement. All new comers after the current pilot group will have to be rated.
Just reward for a very solid group of aviators who, depite the years of being slagged by other "profesionals" , have stood their ground and achieved a good result for all of their members!
You dont see that too much in this country any more. The heads down and work hard mentality is the winner!
Cheers DM
The seats are hard as life is sometimes. The endorsements will be on a standard bond type arrangement. All new comers after the current pilot group will have to be rated.
Just reward for a very solid group of aviators who, depite the years of being slagged by other "profesionals" , have stood their ground and achieved a good result for all of their members!
You dont see that too much in this country any more. The heads down and work hard mentality is the winner!
Cheers DM
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Gnadenberg, it was not Virgin Blue that started the "rot" on aircrew wages and conditions.
In fact, Warren Seymor started all this back in the early '90s with the original National Jet Systems. Then we had Compass MKII and Impulse. Even AAE were only paying their 727 Captains $80K and F/Os $60K until 12 months ago.
I do agree with your sentiments re: Airbus endorsements. CASA would be wise to monitor this closely for the reasons you stated.
Roo Rooter
Are you justifying the conditions you have halved?
Are you justifying the conditions you have halved?
I do agree with your sentiments re: Airbus endorsements. CASA would be wise to monitor this closely for the reasons you stated.
Thread Starter
Pprune Towers & Whiskery
Thanks for the backup.
All too often pilots mistake the "gentle" handling qualities of Airbus aircraft as an indication of how manageable the aircraft is in abnormal situations or a rugged day on the line.
It has it's own unique set of challenges.
It is very different and can be very confusing. Mode confusion ( What's it doing now? ) is not uncommon amongst newly converted Boeing pilots for some time after conversion.
The "gentle" handling qualities still see some Airbus pilots struggle with a basic raw data ILS- is it the PFD presentation or the perishable nature of basic flying skills?
Procedurally the aircraft can be confusing. Abnormals not so clear and subject to interpretation on occassion. This is a big problem on a multi-cultural flight deck or even in a situation where the cockpit gradient steep.
On a bad day, with a bad crew (lowest common denominator) and the product of a bad endorsement........the wonderful plane SHOULD still save the day. Air Inter, Gulf Air, Air India & a few Test Pilots the aberrations.
CASA doesn't need to take this risk and I hope the new boss not too Virginised by his previous post.
Will Impulse pilots get excellent A320 training? I think so. No excuses not to - it comes with the purchase.
Will positions 130- onward? This is the risk and the responsibility of the IPG and CASA. No Virgin Blue "off to the USA for 14 days" jet training. This would be irresponsible of both parties.
IPG has won seniority. Win the training package and hopefully conditions will eventually follow.
Dougless Mcdonnell
The trap for you is the Empire you build. Can you handle experienced Airbus pilots from seniority 130 onwards?
Or will politics see your group neglect the market ( as QF & VB did ) and leave a pool of experienced pilots out there to threaten your future conditions with expertise to start a third discount airline. Or just a reminder to management of how replacable you are?
Think laterally! Don't think like Long Haul!
Thanks for the backup.
All too often pilots mistake the "gentle" handling qualities of Airbus aircraft as an indication of how manageable the aircraft is in abnormal situations or a rugged day on the line.
It has it's own unique set of challenges.
It is very different and can be very confusing. Mode confusion ( What's it doing now? ) is not uncommon amongst newly converted Boeing pilots for some time after conversion.
The "gentle" handling qualities still see some Airbus pilots struggle with a basic raw data ILS- is it the PFD presentation or the perishable nature of basic flying skills?
Procedurally the aircraft can be confusing. Abnormals not so clear and subject to interpretation on occassion. This is a big problem on a multi-cultural flight deck or even in a situation where the cockpit gradient steep.
On a bad day, with a bad crew (lowest common denominator) and the product of a bad endorsement........the wonderful plane SHOULD still save the day. Air Inter, Gulf Air, Air India & a few Test Pilots the aberrations.
CASA doesn't need to take this risk and I hope the new boss not too Virginised by his previous post.
Will Impulse pilots get excellent A320 training? I think so. No excuses not to - it comes with the purchase.
Will positions 130- onward? This is the risk and the responsibility of the IPG and CASA. No Virgin Blue "off to the USA for 14 days" jet training. This would be irresponsible of both parties.
IPG has won seniority. Win the training package and hopefully conditions will eventually follow.
Dougless Mcdonnell
The trap for you is the Empire you build. Can you handle experienced Airbus pilots from seniority 130 onwards?
Or will politics see your group neglect the market ( as QF & VB did ) and leave a pool of experienced pilots out there to threaten your future conditions with expertise to start a third discount airline. Or just a reminder to management of how replacable you are?
Think laterally! Don't think like Long Haul!
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In my outfit, pilots with 200 hours and crap training manage to pole it around without bumping into things. Similar to a lot of airlines in Europe, the Middle East and most in Asia. Its probably easier to fly than a 717 or even a twin turbo prop single pilot.
Many operators make it harder than it really is - just follow the Airbus way - its designed to be flown by beginners.
Having said that, I am no ace. it still bites you on the ring every now and then to make sure you are concentrating - just like every aircraft will.
Many operators make it harder than it really is - just follow the Airbus way - its designed to be flown by beginners.
Having said that, I am no ace. it still bites you on the ring every now and then to make sure you are concentrating - just like every aircraft will.
Thread Starter
Well then, I sure hope you enjoy your present job Eric as your expertise not needed at home! Or anywhere else by your own appraisal of things.
You have to be kidding. Airbus has a disproportionate history of CFIT attributed to mode confusion.
A technological evolution yes- look at the CPIP with Air Inter crash in Strasbourg- FPA adjusted to prevent "confusion".
Gulf Air crash in Bahrain-CPIP with Flight Directors ON with TOGA to prevent disorientation ( due PFD presentation and illusion ).
Air India in Bangalore- CPIP Flight Directors and speed mode etc.
More recently, an A330 with Phillipine Airlines came close to being another Airbus CFIT statistic in Agana, Guam.
You missed my point- it is easy to pole but can be difficult to MANAGE-explaining CFIT.
Some of your posts indicate that Airbus uses technology to eclipse experience. Be careful. This may erode your conditions and limit the opportunity to come home.
If your right, Impulse won't need any experienced Airbus pilots at all. Technology replaces experience in terms of seniority 130 onward.
I think your wrong, belittling the profession and ignoring the safety issues of introducing very different technology.
You have to be kidding. Airbus has a disproportionate history of CFIT attributed to mode confusion.
A technological evolution yes- look at the CPIP with Air Inter crash in Strasbourg- FPA adjusted to prevent "confusion".
Gulf Air crash in Bahrain-CPIP with Flight Directors ON with TOGA to prevent disorientation ( due PFD presentation and illusion ).
Air India in Bangalore- CPIP Flight Directors and speed mode etc.
More recently, an A330 with Phillipine Airlines came close to being another Airbus CFIT statistic in Agana, Guam.
You missed my point- it is easy to pole but can be difficult to MANAGE-explaining CFIT.
Some of your posts indicate that Airbus uses technology to eclipse experience. Be careful. This may erode your conditions and limit the opportunity to come home.
If your right, Impulse won't need any experienced Airbus pilots at all. Technology replaces experience in terms of seniority 130 onward.
I think your wrong, belittling the profession and ignoring the safety issues of introducing very different technology.
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Gnadenburg
There was a time when working for Ansett that I thought experience was vitally important.
Having moved to the big wide world I now realize that my thousands of hours of Airbus experience count for little with many operators. I am just an FO and have no more value than the 200-hour cadet.
I don’t enjoy my present job gnad, thanks for your concern and if asked, would consider moving back to oz to work for LCC.
BUT – I also realize that the fellahs at Impulse will be able to get the Airbus up and running without to much help – probably with greater ease than when AN first purchased the 320 back in ye olden days. The transition from glass 717 to 320 will probably be easier than the old folks at AN going 727 to 320. How many direct entry type rated people did AN need to employ back when the bus arrived. Bubkis. Zero. Donut. Zip. Nada. The big donut.
Many crashes you refer to were years ago when the technology in the 320 was new and completely unfamiliar to most pilots. AI was totally un prepared for the misunderstandings that occurred on line that resulted in Airbus accidents. Most of these accidents have been resolved through better training, better manuals and hardware/software upgrades. Some of the later accidents you refer to will happen in an airbus, a Boeing or even on your uncle’s bicycle. What you and I are usually unaware of is how many accidents were avoided as a RESULT of the level of technology in FBW aircraft – 777 included. I would suggest the number is very high.
Yes it’s easy to pole and I also think when operated correctly it’s no harder to manage than most aeroplanes. The ease of hand flying gives more time to the pilot to manage the operation.
“Some of your posts indicate that Airbus uses technology to eclipse experience. . . “
It does. Of course technology is utilized to enable airlines to make use of a lowering of experience in the industry since the sixties. The skill sets required to fly an A320 are far less than those required to fly an older generation of aircraft. Take a look at the number of accidents with 737/727/707/DC9/DC8 aircraft from 1960 –1980 compared to these days. The accident rate is far lower.
“ . . . Be careful. This may erode your conditions and limit the opportunity to come home.”
Yes. You are correct. But how will my “being careful” increase the opportunity to “come home”.
“I think your wrong, belittling the profession and ignoring the safety issues of introducing very different technology”
Firstly, I have in no way indicated that I would suggest ignoring safety issues. I hope that Impulse pilots are trained to a high standard – nothing so far suggests that they will not be.
Secondly, I am not belittling our profession – I am being realistic. In most parts of the world, pilots are recruited to fly glass jets with little or no previous experience. Some of the world’s safest airlines recruit mostly cadet pilots. It is a fact that in many airlines, the FO flying you to your holiday destination in your A320 or 777 was in university 2 years ago wondering what an airliner looked like.
My comments regarding Impulse pilots being short on experience were in regard to 1900 drivers – I doubt they will be allowed to jump into the LHS of the bus.
There was a time when working for Ansett that I thought experience was vitally important.
Having moved to the big wide world I now realize that my thousands of hours of Airbus experience count for little with many operators. I am just an FO and have no more value than the 200-hour cadet.
I don’t enjoy my present job gnad, thanks for your concern and if asked, would consider moving back to oz to work for LCC.
BUT – I also realize that the fellahs at Impulse will be able to get the Airbus up and running without to much help – probably with greater ease than when AN first purchased the 320 back in ye olden days. The transition from glass 717 to 320 will probably be easier than the old folks at AN going 727 to 320. How many direct entry type rated people did AN need to employ back when the bus arrived. Bubkis. Zero. Donut. Zip. Nada. The big donut.
Many crashes you refer to were years ago when the technology in the 320 was new and completely unfamiliar to most pilots. AI was totally un prepared for the misunderstandings that occurred on line that resulted in Airbus accidents. Most of these accidents have been resolved through better training, better manuals and hardware/software upgrades. Some of the later accidents you refer to will happen in an airbus, a Boeing or even on your uncle’s bicycle. What you and I are usually unaware of is how many accidents were avoided as a RESULT of the level of technology in FBW aircraft – 777 included. I would suggest the number is very high.
Yes it’s easy to pole and I also think when operated correctly it’s no harder to manage than most aeroplanes. The ease of hand flying gives more time to the pilot to manage the operation.
“Some of your posts indicate that Airbus uses technology to eclipse experience. . . “
It does. Of course technology is utilized to enable airlines to make use of a lowering of experience in the industry since the sixties. The skill sets required to fly an A320 are far less than those required to fly an older generation of aircraft. Take a look at the number of accidents with 737/727/707/DC9/DC8 aircraft from 1960 –1980 compared to these days. The accident rate is far lower.
“ . . . Be careful. This may erode your conditions and limit the opportunity to come home.”
Yes. You are correct. But how will my “being careful” increase the opportunity to “come home”.
“I think your wrong, belittling the profession and ignoring the safety issues of introducing very different technology”
Firstly, I have in no way indicated that I would suggest ignoring safety issues. I hope that Impulse pilots are trained to a high standard – nothing so far suggests that they will not be.
Secondly, I am not belittling our profession – I am being realistic. In most parts of the world, pilots are recruited to fly glass jets with little or no previous experience. Some of the world’s safest airlines recruit mostly cadet pilots. It is a fact that in many airlines, the FO flying you to your holiday destination in your A320 or 777 was in university 2 years ago wondering what an airliner looked like.
My comments regarding Impulse pilots being short on experience were in regard to 1900 drivers – I doubt they will be allowed to jump into the LHS of the bus.
Last edited by FatEric; 7th Dec 2003 at 19:12.
Thread Starter
Impulse will get 23 A320's with options for 20. Pilot group now 130 to become 210ish. Commands now 70ish to become 110ish. There will be a transitional phase of 717 & 320 operations placing further pressures. Commercial pressures will be significant too, as Jetstar a counter attack on Dixon's low cost nemesis Virgin Blue.
Your arguments more Devil's Advocate and a glass half empty.
The Cadet programme you allude to I am familar with as well. 200 hour local pilots and more a very slow and commercially unrealistic nationalisation programme. Jetstar needs Captains real quick. DE Captains mentioned indicates Impulse is already getting help.
A seemingly RHS slant on your sentiments. Sure, a 320 F/O can be done to an extent by a cadet. What about a Captain? How long does a 200 hour take to become a Commander? I have witnessed 9 years and with a 30% failure rate. This is not viable commercially for anything but Flag carriers- EXPERIENCE means something in the dynamics of the pilot market.
Ansett an impertinent reference. Zero DE's because a replacement and a pool of Captains to be trained. Jetstar doubling Impulse in size aswell as the above mentioned pressures.
Impulse will get good A320 training. But I am pushing the same level of training for seniority 130 onward. Solid ground course and sim. Not the Virgin Blue option and for a number of reasons- safety and what being so easliy replaced does to conditions.
Your mention of 777 reinforces my case point. 777 has not suffered the CFIT losses of Airbus. Obviously many reasons for this and lets not diverse. Airbus crashes every few years due some really strange reasons. 2000 was Gulf Air and the 330 near catastrophe very recent too.
Sheepishly, Airbus continues to modifiy software as a result of these events. As there are very real traps with the very different technology.
I think you are selling your experience short as the market demanding Airbus experience at the moment. A340 skipper can write a ticket anywhere and 320 F/O's are in demand in airlines that need pilots to upgrade quicker than your cadet programmes.
The glass is half full for Airbus pilots and I hope Impulse pilots help keep it that way.
Your arguments more Devil's Advocate and a glass half empty.
The Cadet programme you allude to I am familar with as well. 200 hour local pilots and more a very slow and commercially unrealistic nationalisation programme. Jetstar needs Captains real quick. DE Captains mentioned indicates Impulse is already getting help.
A seemingly RHS slant on your sentiments. Sure, a 320 F/O can be done to an extent by a cadet. What about a Captain? How long does a 200 hour take to become a Commander? I have witnessed 9 years and with a 30% failure rate. This is not viable commercially for anything but Flag carriers- EXPERIENCE means something in the dynamics of the pilot market.
Ansett an impertinent reference. Zero DE's because a replacement and a pool of Captains to be trained. Jetstar doubling Impulse in size aswell as the above mentioned pressures.
Impulse will get good A320 training. But I am pushing the same level of training for seniority 130 onward. Solid ground course and sim. Not the Virgin Blue option and for a number of reasons- safety and what being so easliy replaced does to conditions.
Your mention of 777 reinforces my case point. 777 has not suffered the CFIT losses of Airbus. Obviously many reasons for this and lets not diverse. Airbus crashes every few years due some really strange reasons. 2000 was Gulf Air and the 330 near catastrophe very recent too.
Sheepishly, Airbus continues to modifiy software as a result of these events. As there are very real traps with the very different technology.
I think you are selling your experience short as the market demanding Airbus experience at the moment. A340 skipper can write a ticket anywhere and 320 F/O's are in demand in airlines that need pilots to upgrade quicker than your cadet programmes.
The glass is half full for Airbus pilots and I hope Impulse pilots help keep it that way.
Last edited by Gnadenburg; 8th Dec 2003 at 15:32.
Grandpa Aerotart
As someone who knows one of the senior pilot negotiators at Impulse/Qlink I can assure you he, and they, are very smart operators when it comes time to talk to the company.
As for the age old Boeing/airbus debate. As someone in the middle of 767-300 transition training I have come to believe the following.
Boeing= Designed by geniuses to be flown by idiots. (Moi
)
Airbus= Designed by idiots to be flown by geniuses.
Chuckles
As for the age old Boeing/airbus debate. As someone in the middle of 767-300 transition training I have come to believe the following.
Boeing= Designed by geniuses to be flown by idiots. (Moi
)Airbus= Designed by idiots to be flown by geniuses.
Chuckles
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Gnad's, I'm pleasantly suprised! An Impulse thread containing facts & analysis without the usual vitriolic tantrums. Hopefully the 'usual suspects' can refrain and/or present an objective view...
Interesting thoughts re the experienced 320 guys, also the potential pitfalls. I certainly won't be taking the beastie for granted when the time comes, don't imagine anyone will. I'd imagine the 1900 to 717 jump was larger - our DE help was, and still is, invaluable. Hopefully new DE's will contribute in a similar way, at the same time learning a few of the things our current pilot group have to teach.
Keep up the high signal/noise ratio!
Interesting thoughts re the experienced 320 guys, also the potential pitfalls. I certainly won't be taking the beastie for granted when the time comes, don't imagine anyone will. I'd imagine the 1900 to 717 jump was larger - our DE help was, and still is, invaluable. Hopefully new DE's will contribute in a similar way, at the same time learning a few of the things our current pilot group have to teach.
Keep up the high signal/noise ratio!
Thread Starter
It's Their Party-
A few more facts coming to light.
DE Commands will number around 30.
Initial Cadre of pilots trained on 320 for Jetstar will be present senior check & training, DE's & Unemployed Impulse 1900 pilots.
Ex Ansett A320 management pilots will not be required. Despite individual lobbying by the latter group.
The IPG will get it's expertise from elsewhere- internally ( 89ers have flown Airbus ), EK, CX? Bit early for CASA CCQ approval I would have thought.
Ex- Ansett pilots not required despite Dixon's indications that ex-AN employees to be heavily utilised. The politics has begun! Is it 89 or the threat & insecurity experience brings? Seniority should counter this but I always envisioned the Impulse Empire.
There is an indication from my "friend" that there is an aversion to recruit F/O's. Haven't understood this as the DE Commands takes the group to just below 160- a shortfall considering 23 A320s.
Where will the pilot shortfall be met?
I think the above reinforces the magnitude of the victory in terms of seniority. For a senior Impulse Capt has won security, an Impulse F/O has won a command and 40% payrise and the displaced 1900 pilots have won a career in an airline.
I still see a requirment for 40 F/O's. Min requirments and nepotism/cronyism may meet this demand but I was hoping for pilots to be taken out of the Airbus market abroad.
This every so slightly worsening the crewing situation at Airbus operators who advantaged post-Sept 11. This in turn improving, due supply & demand, the Airbus market abroad where 10% or so Impulse drivers will probably end up.
DE Commands will number around 30.
Initial Cadre of pilots trained on 320 for Jetstar will be present senior check & training, DE's & Unemployed Impulse 1900 pilots.
Ex Ansett A320 management pilots will not be required. Despite individual lobbying by the latter group.
The IPG will get it's expertise from elsewhere- internally ( 89ers have flown Airbus ), EK, CX? Bit early for CASA CCQ approval I would have thought.
Ex- Ansett pilots not required despite Dixon's indications that ex-AN employees to be heavily utilised. The politics has begun! Is it 89 or the threat & insecurity experience brings? Seniority should counter this but I always envisioned the Impulse Empire.
There is an indication from my "friend" that there is an aversion to recruit F/O's. Haven't understood this as the DE Commands takes the group to just below 160- a shortfall considering 23 A320s.
Where will the pilot shortfall be met?
I think the above reinforces the magnitude of the victory in terms of seniority. For a senior Impulse Capt has won security, an Impulse F/O has won a command and 40% payrise and the displaced 1900 pilots have won a career in an airline.
I still see a requirment for 40 F/O's. Min requirments and nepotism/cronyism may meet this demand but I was hoping for pilots to be taken out of the Airbus market abroad.
This every so slightly worsening the crewing situation at Airbus operators who advantaged post-Sept 11. This in turn improving, due supply & demand, the Airbus market abroad where 10% or so Impulse drivers will probably end up.
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Gnad,
Yippee. Woo Hoo. No need for Ex Ansett pilots.
Hooray.
Impulse can do what they like as far as operating the A320 but it appears that you are overjoyed at the fact that as few ex Ansett type rated pilots will be employed as possible. They are no different to any other pilot group but could at least offer some expertise in operating the aircraft. You actually contradict your own previous posts regarding this.
Most punters on the street would find it very odd for a new business venture to pay for expensive training for pilots who are currently unemployed when there are plenty of current type rated Australians willing to do the job.
Yippee. Woo Hoo. No need for Ex Ansett pilots.
Hooray.
Impulse can do what they like as far as operating the A320 but it appears that you are overjoyed at the fact that as few ex Ansett type rated pilots will be employed as possible. They are no different to any other pilot group but could at least offer some expertise in operating the aircraft. You actually contradict your own previous posts regarding this.
Most punters on the street would find it very odd for a new business venture to pay for expensive training for pilots who are currently unemployed when there are plenty of current type rated Australians willing to do the job.
Thread Starter
I suppose you wouldn't be familar with a united pilot group Amos.
A lot of people under the impression they may well be coming home. Just versing them with the politics in current play.
No false hopes, you know the feeling of being abroad against your will.
Oicur
Don't get emotional on me. I am ex-AN 320 and am presenting what I have been told are the facts.
I would interpret my posts to former colleagues as a heads up.
1- Don't peeve your present employer thinking you will be home by Easter.
2- F/O's even if you do get in you will be a permamnet F/O due seniority. So push EK/KA etc.
I am only delighted in the fact a pilot group has stood together and looked after their own. I thought that is what AN management pilots and APA would be like once upon a time.
i have also advocated the IPG use Airbus experise from abroad, even if not ex-AN, as this will help in terms of supply and demand.
A lot of people under the impression they may well be coming home. Just versing them with the politics in current play.
No false hopes, you know the feeling of being abroad against your will.
Oicur
Don't get emotional on me. I am ex-AN 320 and am presenting what I have been told are the facts.
I would interpret my posts to former colleagues as a heads up.
1- Don't peeve your present employer thinking you will be home by Easter.
2- F/O's even if you do get in you will be a permamnet F/O due seniority. So push EK/KA etc.
I am only delighted in the fact a pilot group has stood together and looked after their own. I thought that is what AN management pilots and APA would be like once upon a time.
i have also advocated the IPG use Airbus experise from abroad, even if not ex-AN, as this will help in terms of supply and demand.
Last edited by Gnadenburg; 8th Dec 2003 at 18:02.
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GONADS,
VB has not had any one do the dodgee US endorsements since July 2002, realising what people were paying for and getting they along with CASA, approved the ETA set up, and over 200 pilots have been through ETA attaining a high standard to the satisfaction of all concerned
VB has not had any one do the dodgee US endorsements since July 2002, realising what people were paying for and getting they along with CASA, approved the ETA set up, and over 200 pilots have been through ETA attaining a high standard to the satisfaction of all concerned