"Beware of Virgin Blue"
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"Beware of Virgin Blue"
Just thought this thread on another site may be of interest... and possibly something management may want to address, given the Northern Winter has arrived and alot of traffic goes this way!?
Beware of Virgin Blue
Keep the blue up
Beware of Virgin Blue
Keep the blue up
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Oops missed this one back in August from Crikey
Virgin Blue's sexist ways
Cherie Shoulderpads
Crikey's high flying female executive
15 August 2003
It's been open season on Qantas srevice standards recently but now it's time to square the ledger as a female executive has sent through this excellent piece demolishing the sexist alternative through Richard Branson's Virgin Blue. We entirely share these sentiments.
For 8 years, I was a business traveller flying either domestically or internationally with Qantas on average once a month, and like the other letter writers, experienced a huge range of service standards - from the sublime to the ridiculous. My main gripe was that there was simply no consistency to standards - you never knew what you were going to get, the flight from hell or the surprise-and-delight approach. At least this made it interesting.
But then I changed jobs and my new company flies Virgin Blue domestically. I have been intrigued by my experiences as a female professional travelling for business on this airline, and wonder whether mine is an isolated experience or not.
I find the Virgin brand and all that it stands for to be incredibly disempowering and demeaning to women. It is an absolute dinosaur; would have been right at home circa 1969; objectifies women as brainless sex objects and idolises leering old men (yes, that would be YOU, Richard Branson) as demi-gods.
We all know that setting expectations for a company's culture starts from the top. The gap between men and women permeates all the way through their structure and the way they do business.
First - where are their male flight attendants? Do they even have any? I've never seen one.
Second - where do they find the identikit women who are their Flight Attendants, with absolutely identical body-shapes. (And so very, very Aryan!) Diversity and the beauty within a range of different ages, body and racial types seems to be a completely alien concept to the Virgin recruiting officers. I call the Flight Attendants the Fem-Bots.
Third - the staff treat male passengers differently to women! I have exited a plane and seen a Fem-Bot smilingly farewell every single male passenger. When I filed past her, she took a rest. I was the invisible woman! Men always seem to be over-represented in the seats at the front of the plane. Women to the rear please, and shut up and don't bother the Fem-Bots. The attitude even extends to the check-in staff. Arriving quite early for a flight once, I asked if a forward seat was available. "We have zones," sniffed the woman on check-in. I meekly asked how I could get seated in a forward zone. "You don't understand," she responded, in a rather circular argument, I thought. Clearly she too had been hired on Aryan looks and idealised body-type rather than any sense of customer service! Sure enough, I filed on down to the second-last row of seats past the men in suits having a whale of a time with the lovely Fem-Bots up the front. I can see that the service is good - it's just that it's not good for women.
Fourthly - why do they insist on bombarding me with negative and demeaning images of women - ones that I would even classify as soft porn - when I am a captive audience on flights? By this, I mean their stupid in-flight magazine (Who was the genius who thought that Voyeur would be a good name for a magazine? Hello? Let's idealise deviant behaviour, shall we? Maybe their online newsletter could be called Cyber-Rape; that would be cutesie!) This month the front cover has a highly suggestive image of yet another identikit Aryan woman sucking a long red object. Mmmm, subtle! Then there's the illustration of the well-endowed woman in an Akubra and an inadequate bikini painted on the planes. Love seeing that as I board at 7:30am heading for a long day interstate at business meetings. Really sets me up and makes me feel good about being a woman.
I saw a senior Virgin marketing executive present at a conference once, and was amazed to hear her describe her brand as "empowering and inclusive". It's not. It revels in the worst aspects of exclusionism, is demeaning to women, is really moronic, and never fails to set my teeth on edge.
As my final proof point, remember that stupid promotion they did a while ago - leverage the fact that their flight attendants were named by Ralph magazine as the "sexiest women in Australia". What benefits did they hope to deliver by demeaning the work of their female employees in this way? (And did the union have anything to say about objectifying their workforce in this way? I mean, they're flight attendants, not sex workers. Since when was 'sexiness' one of their required core competencies?) Did Virgin management think more business women or women in general would fly the airline because the sexiest women in Australia were going to be working? I think the extent to which they promoted this 'title' makes it pretty clear who their target market is. With Virgin, women are barely tolerated, while men are lionised!"
CRIKEY: Here, here. This particular man completely agrees and always feels awkward on Virgin flights when bogan men feel it is their right to chat up Branson's blonde hosties. Maybe it's all about distracting customers from the lack of free food and minimal leg room.
Your feedback: this woman wholeheartedly agrees
I couldn't agree more with your female executive's critique of Virgin. I also travel quite frequently, usually with Qantas though often with Ansett when they were operating. Recently a couple of clients booked me on to Virgin. After 3 flights with the airline - 1 to northern Queensland and one Sydney/Melb return - I now have a new criteria for clients. If you want me to come to you, book Qantas.
Not only are Virgin very sexist, obviously favouring male over female patrons. I am sure there is an extra row of seats in their planes. The amount of leg room is minimal. There is not enough room to open a laptop, let alone do any work on it. Not very good when you're travelling on business.
And I find the friendliness and humour so forced and grating. The constant jokes over the intercom of the Benny Hill school of humour are not designed to put me in a good mood.
I would rather put up with delays and varied service from Qantas.
Kathleen
C'mon, loosen up a bit
Obviously I can't comment on the way Senior Female Executive feels, but I also travel frequently on Virgin Blue, and my experiences are a little different.
There are a number of male flight attendants. I have seen them. As early as the first flight I took with Virgin back in 2001, and as recently as my flight from Melbourne yesterday.They seem to me to be drawn from the same batch as the female attendants. As well as being by and large physically attractive (although there are folk out there better qualified to judge that bit), they appear to me to be as bright, interested, thoughtful and hard working as their female counterparts.
I have noticed (and I am definitely on firmer ground here, even though it could get me into trouble) a wide variety of "body types". Far from being identikit, they would seem to me to represent a very fair cross-section of physically attractive, bright, interested and thoughtful people.
But what I would also like to observe, from a strictly non-sexist point of view, is that Virgin Blue a) represents far better value for money, even given the less comfortable seats, b) in my experience has been consistently punctual, which from a business viewpoint is valuable in itself and c) seems to have trained its staff - ground and flight - in the simple courtesies of service that I haven't seen at Qantas for more than ten years.
But then, as a bloke, they are possibly making an extra effort for me. Incidentally, I also arrive early to flights and find myself "down the back", but I have yet to determine any conspiracy involved.
Happy Virgin
Virgin Blue's sexist ways
Cherie Shoulderpads
Crikey's high flying female executive
15 August 2003
It's been open season on Qantas srevice standards recently but now it's time to square the ledger as a female executive has sent through this excellent piece demolishing the sexist alternative through Richard Branson's Virgin Blue. We entirely share these sentiments.
For 8 years, I was a business traveller flying either domestically or internationally with Qantas on average once a month, and like the other letter writers, experienced a huge range of service standards - from the sublime to the ridiculous. My main gripe was that there was simply no consistency to standards - you never knew what you were going to get, the flight from hell or the surprise-and-delight approach. At least this made it interesting.
But then I changed jobs and my new company flies Virgin Blue domestically. I have been intrigued by my experiences as a female professional travelling for business on this airline, and wonder whether mine is an isolated experience or not.
I find the Virgin brand and all that it stands for to be incredibly disempowering and demeaning to women. It is an absolute dinosaur; would have been right at home circa 1969; objectifies women as brainless sex objects and idolises leering old men (yes, that would be YOU, Richard Branson) as demi-gods.
We all know that setting expectations for a company's culture starts from the top. The gap between men and women permeates all the way through their structure and the way they do business.
First - where are their male flight attendants? Do they even have any? I've never seen one.
Second - where do they find the identikit women who are their Flight Attendants, with absolutely identical body-shapes. (And so very, very Aryan!) Diversity and the beauty within a range of different ages, body and racial types seems to be a completely alien concept to the Virgin recruiting officers. I call the Flight Attendants the Fem-Bots.
Third - the staff treat male passengers differently to women! I have exited a plane and seen a Fem-Bot smilingly farewell every single male passenger. When I filed past her, she took a rest. I was the invisible woman! Men always seem to be over-represented in the seats at the front of the plane. Women to the rear please, and shut up and don't bother the Fem-Bots. The attitude even extends to the check-in staff. Arriving quite early for a flight once, I asked if a forward seat was available. "We have zones," sniffed the woman on check-in. I meekly asked how I could get seated in a forward zone. "You don't understand," she responded, in a rather circular argument, I thought. Clearly she too had been hired on Aryan looks and idealised body-type rather than any sense of customer service! Sure enough, I filed on down to the second-last row of seats past the men in suits having a whale of a time with the lovely Fem-Bots up the front. I can see that the service is good - it's just that it's not good for women.
Fourthly - why do they insist on bombarding me with negative and demeaning images of women - ones that I would even classify as soft porn - when I am a captive audience on flights? By this, I mean their stupid in-flight magazine (Who was the genius who thought that Voyeur would be a good name for a magazine? Hello? Let's idealise deviant behaviour, shall we? Maybe their online newsletter could be called Cyber-Rape; that would be cutesie!) This month the front cover has a highly suggestive image of yet another identikit Aryan woman sucking a long red object. Mmmm, subtle! Then there's the illustration of the well-endowed woman in an Akubra and an inadequate bikini painted on the planes. Love seeing that as I board at 7:30am heading for a long day interstate at business meetings. Really sets me up and makes me feel good about being a woman.
I saw a senior Virgin marketing executive present at a conference once, and was amazed to hear her describe her brand as "empowering and inclusive". It's not. It revels in the worst aspects of exclusionism, is demeaning to women, is really moronic, and never fails to set my teeth on edge.
As my final proof point, remember that stupid promotion they did a while ago - leverage the fact that their flight attendants were named by Ralph magazine as the "sexiest women in Australia". What benefits did they hope to deliver by demeaning the work of their female employees in this way? (And did the union have anything to say about objectifying their workforce in this way? I mean, they're flight attendants, not sex workers. Since when was 'sexiness' one of their required core competencies?) Did Virgin management think more business women or women in general would fly the airline because the sexiest women in Australia were going to be working? I think the extent to which they promoted this 'title' makes it pretty clear who their target market is. With Virgin, women are barely tolerated, while men are lionised!"
CRIKEY: Here, here. This particular man completely agrees and always feels awkward on Virgin flights when bogan men feel it is their right to chat up Branson's blonde hosties. Maybe it's all about distracting customers from the lack of free food and minimal leg room.
Your feedback: this woman wholeheartedly agrees
I couldn't agree more with your female executive's critique of Virgin. I also travel quite frequently, usually with Qantas though often with Ansett when they were operating. Recently a couple of clients booked me on to Virgin. After 3 flights with the airline - 1 to northern Queensland and one Sydney/Melb return - I now have a new criteria for clients. If you want me to come to you, book Qantas.
Not only are Virgin very sexist, obviously favouring male over female patrons. I am sure there is an extra row of seats in their planes. The amount of leg room is minimal. There is not enough room to open a laptop, let alone do any work on it. Not very good when you're travelling on business.
And I find the friendliness and humour so forced and grating. The constant jokes over the intercom of the Benny Hill school of humour are not designed to put me in a good mood.
I would rather put up with delays and varied service from Qantas.
Kathleen
C'mon, loosen up a bit
Obviously I can't comment on the way Senior Female Executive feels, but I also travel frequently on Virgin Blue, and my experiences are a little different.
There are a number of male flight attendants. I have seen them. As early as the first flight I took with Virgin back in 2001, and as recently as my flight from Melbourne yesterday.They seem to me to be drawn from the same batch as the female attendants. As well as being by and large physically attractive (although there are folk out there better qualified to judge that bit), they appear to me to be as bright, interested, thoughtful and hard working as their female counterparts.
I have noticed (and I am definitely on firmer ground here, even though it could get me into trouble) a wide variety of "body types". Far from being identikit, they would seem to me to represent a very fair cross-section of physically attractive, bright, interested and thoughtful people.
But what I would also like to observe, from a strictly non-sexist point of view, is that Virgin Blue a) represents far better value for money, even given the less comfortable seats, b) in my experience has been consistently punctual, which from a business viewpoint is valuable in itself and c) seems to have trained its staff - ground and flight - in the simple courtesies of service that I haven't seen at Qantas for more than ten years.
But then, as a bloke, they are possibly making an extra effort for me. Incidentally, I also arrive early to flights and find myself "down the back", but I have yet to determine any conspiracy involved.
Happy Virgin
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I have just read and re-read this ladies article, and it seems to me that her only problem with Virgin Blue is the female cabin crew. I smell a mid life crisis. Love I'm sure your nearest Botox clinic can help you out.
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hmmmm, i tend to agree with you smile...
I sense a certain jealousy here... There is absolutely nothing wrong with the selection criteria with Virgin Blue, in fact I believe there is QUITE a process to go through - and you will find a MUCH more consistent level of service with Virgin than you will with the other carriers.
and YES there are MANY male cabin crew employed with Virgin, it is however the nature of the job that there are more females applying than males. But there certainly is a great cross-section of equally focused people who are all trained on dealing with simple-minded people like you in an emergency situation - that IS afterall the primary reason they put cabin crew onboard. they go through weeks and WEEKS of initial training and then continues ongoing training for ever...
Perhaps just take a look at yourself, and think the slightly LESS than excited farewell to you was because you spent the past hour or so in flight scowling at the crew with which the crew picked up on. and unlike your association with "fem-bots" those cabin crew are NOT robots - in fact they are actually a human being like yourself, and occasionally they may accidently let you slip thru without personally thanking YOU.
Keep it up Virgin - you do a GREAT job
I sense a certain jealousy here... There is absolutely nothing wrong with the selection criteria with Virgin Blue, in fact I believe there is QUITE a process to go through - and you will find a MUCH more consistent level of service with Virgin than you will with the other carriers.
and YES there are MANY male cabin crew employed with Virgin, it is however the nature of the job that there are more females applying than males. But there certainly is a great cross-section of equally focused people who are all trained on dealing with simple-minded people like you in an emergency situation - that IS afterall the primary reason they put cabin crew onboard. they go through weeks and WEEKS of initial training and then continues ongoing training for ever...
Perhaps just take a look at yourself, and think the slightly LESS than excited farewell to you was because you spent the past hour or so in flight scowling at the crew with which the crew picked up on. and unlike your association with "fem-bots" those cabin crew are NOT robots - in fact they are actually a human being like yourself, and occasionally they may accidently let you slip thru without personally thanking YOU.
Keep it up Virgin - you do a GREAT job
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You Get What You Pay For
Agree with smile and PacificOrigin.
It just goes to show what we in the LCC cabin workplace encounter on a frequent basis. It doesn't matter what messages your publicity machine sends out, there will always be people who bring their own idea of what your product should be so long as they haven't paid the extra to have it.
"Great Businesses Work on Time and Motion. We do both."
That means we sell on time performance. But WE also deliver.
"Plane fares. Beautiful Service"
You get it - our crew actually stop and talk to you - you get that for FREE, the plane fare, you pay for. I will even stop what I'm doing mid service and have a chat to you, so long as the person behind doesn't mind waiting a mo to get THEIR entitlements either.
"Low fares. Its that plane"
NZ$99 from Christchurch to Brisbane. Want a movie? Then bring your laptop and turn it sideways, watch a DVD or mpeg. I'll even sell you a headset for NZ$2. Don't like that? There's a Newsagent in the terminal where YOU can pay for your magazines, instead of expecting someone else sitting in the aircraft who has paid a higher fare than you to subsidise YOUR mags or movie.
Still not happy? Then pay me more than NZ$3.20 per hour.
It just goes to show what we in the LCC cabin workplace encounter on a frequent basis. It doesn't matter what messages your publicity machine sends out, there will always be people who bring their own idea of what your product should be so long as they haven't paid the extra to have it.
"Great Businesses Work on Time and Motion. We do both."
That means we sell on time performance. But WE also deliver.
"Plane fares. Beautiful Service"
You get it - our crew actually stop and talk to you - you get that for FREE, the plane fare, you pay for. I will even stop what I'm doing mid service and have a chat to you, so long as the person behind doesn't mind waiting a mo to get THEIR entitlements either.
"Low fares. Its that plane"
NZ$99 from Christchurch to Brisbane. Want a movie? Then bring your laptop and turn it sideways, watch a DVD or mpeg. I'll even sell you a headset for NZ$2. Don't like that? There's a Newsagent in the terminal where YOU can pay for your magazines, instead of expecting someone else sitting in the aircraft who has paid a higher fare than you to subsidise YOUR mags or movie.
Still not happy? Then pay me more than NZ$3.20 per hour.
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Typical F##king woman!
I bet that if they were all male cabin crew, she would be screaming blue murder that women were NOT being given jobs... you just can't win!!!!
My bet is that she is fat and ugly and insecure about being around a plethora of attractive YOUNGER women!
I bet that if they were all male cabin crew, she would be screaming blue murder that women were NOT being given jobs... you just can't win!!!!
My bet is that she is fat and ugly and insecure about being around a plethora of attractive YOUNGER women!
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Although Virgin Blue is not our "preferred carrier" I have averaged 6 sectors a month with them over the past 18 months.
My personal experience has been very different to those outlined in the Crikey article.
I have always been treated no differently to any of the male passengers by either male or female flight attendants. In fact on several occasions last year both myself and one of my male colleagues were approcahed by Virgin Cabin Crew who were ex Flight West and Ansett who recognised both of us as having been regulars of their previous employers. On one flight we had a quite lengthy discussion with one ex FW flight attendant on the differences between their previous and current employer - none of it negative.
Yes - Virgin is different to the steroetype that we here in Australia have been used to - but that is not necessarily a bad thing.
As for demeaning the image of females - that to me is purely a matter of personal choice. I do not consider it to be demeaning unless the people doing the job look at it as being personally demeaning. I doubt any of the female cabin crew wiould have taken up the job offer if they felt they were being demeaned in any way - they have that choice and can vote with their feet if it's not for them. As long as they are proficient at what they do, and enjoy all aspects of the job and their terms of employment, then who are we to criticise?
The male Cabin Crew I have encountered have been as good as any I have encountered on other airlines both in Australia and overseas.
So what if the Cabin Crew are young and attractive? Weren't we all once? I feel the author of the Crikey article may in fact have a problem with her own advancing years and all that goes with it!!
I believe there are other more important issues that Virgin should address if they wish to capture a greater share of the business market here in Australia before they worry too much about the perceived sexist image some business travellers may have of their Cabin Crew.
My personal experience has been very different to those outlined in the Crikey article.
I have always been treated no differently to any of the male passengers by either male or female flight attendants. In fact on several occasions last year both myself and one of my male colleagues were approcahed by Virgin Cabin Crew who were ex Flight West and Ansett who recognised both of us as having been regulars of their previous employers. On one flight we had a quite lengthy discussion with one ex FW flight attendant on the differences between their previous and current employer - none of it negative.
Yes - Virgin is different to the steroetype that we here in Australia have been used to - but that is not necessarily a bad thing.
As for demeaning the image of females - that to me is purely a matter of personal choice. I do not consider it to be demeaning unless the people doing the job look at it as being personally demeaning. I doubt any of the female cabin crew wiould have taken up the job offer if they felt they were being demeaned in any way - they have that choice and can vote with their feet if it's not for them. As long as they are proficient at what they do, and enjoy all aspects of the job and their terms of employment, then who are we to criticise?
The male Cabin Crew I have encountered have been as good as any I have encountered on other airlines both in Australia and overseas.
So what if the Cabin Crew are young and attractive? Weren't we all once? I feel the author of the Crikey article may in fact have a problem with her own advancing years and all that goes with it!!
I believe there are other more important issues that Virgin should address if they wish to capture a greater share of the business market here in Australia before they worry too much about the perceived sexist image some business travellers may have of their Cabin Crew.
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Oh Boy!...with the nonsence being posted here, you lot have no idea of standards do you?...what a pity!!
What are you all?...left wing, bolshie tree hugging bleeding hearts or something?
Lift your game guys!
What are you all?...left wing, bolshie tree hugging bleeding hearts or something?
Lift your game guys!
iwillflyajet,
Have a think about that !! Maybe a slight contradiction.
Have a think about that !! Maybe a slight contradiction.
