The last couple of incompetent people at my unit got promoted to desk jobs at Band 4 and 5 units! Cynical, damn right.

So if all these office workers that bdionu claims have all this knowledge not only about our current systems but also the new technologies, or new ideas from other ats proivders are employed by nats are as great as he claims then why the hell are we still employing these monkeys who turn up in the ops room every now and again with no fking idea what the hell is going on, asking all kinds of rubbish, and having the most primitive idea of an air traffic operation ever. even less so than my wife

I don't think that it's those working at the CTC that seem to have been left behind by evolution going by some of what's been posted on this thread.

Sad.

What, like June's overtime that I'm still waiting for. God know's, o/t (not even an AAVA!) is as rare as rocking horse sh!t round these here parts.
Oh, and rumour has it that an entire unit's OJTI team wasn't paid for their services in the last quarter.

Mind you, I can't make up my mind whether to call for less admin staff........or more!:uhoh:

and rumour has it, well its actually been confirmed that mister 'i'm in charge of the new capital/central TC airspace' has informed us all that it will be solely staffed with AAVA's.
how the hell can you staff a sector like that? i know of many waiting to hand in that sector as its staffed by people above MUR anyway when this crap kicks in.
maybe spend a few more million on it and not learn from it... management again in their own magic 'it will work' bubble and never listening to us.

Technically, all NATS full-time staff are contracted to 40 hour weeks.

The combination of arrogance and ignorance displayed by some of my (operational) 'colleagues' never ceases to amaze me. You whine about everyone else but you being useless and a drain on resources as they know nothing about what you do... while showing quite clearly you lack any understanding of what they do, what their role is and what skills and experience they bring to the company.
This is a large company and there are highly skilled, highly qualified and highly valuable employees in a whole range of areas within it. Not just on the Ops room floor.

Funny how any discussion about money always brings out the worst in some people.

I'll happily go back to a 40 hour gross roster. But when the bleeper goes whilst I'm half way through a dinner break to split the sector I'll be able to decline the request to get back to the sector. I suspect regulations would be more common than they are now.

Stilll sometimes it's a pleasure to leave the Swanwick food half finished.:(

I would challenge people at band 2 units who moan about their salaries being lower than those of their band 5 counterparts to put in a transfer request and come and validate at a band 5 unit. There is plenty of demand for ATCO's, both approach and area at Swanwick.

And getting released from a band 2 unit...well thats a piece of p*ss huh?

:ugh::ugh:

Back to the original point, this news story is on the BBC business website. UK RPI rose to 5% in July (CPI is now 4.4% - the highest monthly increase since records began). Our chances of getting that? Slim to none I would wager.

BBC NEWS | Business | UK inflation up to 4.4% in July

It does make me larf when people go on about getting transfers to band 5 units. If only it was that simple.

Revolution,
That old chestnut again.:zzz::zzz::zzz: I suppose that includes the college as well does it?
Why do you have such a low opinion of Band 2 units? Perhaps if Band 5 units were filled with lots of your type,then they are better avoided.:hmm:
However to examine your point.Maybe everyone on the airport side at our Band 2 piece of pi:mad:ss unit,should move to Swanwick.Result.The entire North Sea Oil industry would shut down.Fantastic :D Petrol would be £5 a litre,and the country would grind to a halt.The exchequer would be £13 billion p.a poorer.The Oil multi nationals would ever so slightly cross at this Nats company.Very bad move.
There you are.Band 2 units aren't worth a toss.Nats hardly even knows where this Band 2 unit is,never mind what it does.:suspect:

Sounds remarkably similar to some of the comments in here about the 'office staff' at CTC. Except everyone knows where the CTC is. Strange how the only unit in NATS who does any 'real' work or earns any revenue is the one at which the poster works. Open your eyes guys, there is a whole other world outside of the tiny little one you work in.

BD

I started this thread asking about pay negotiations and after a brief but informative discussion about pensions it degenerated rapidly into the usual pathetic ATCO bitchiness.

Maybe the Moderators need to start a Sticky for these people.

.....or maybe you should exercise a bit more wit and not post such a topic.
Still, yet again the rest of the industry sees what a dysfunctional little family we are. So it's not all bad.:rolleyes:

eastern - you should've taken advantage of the CDOX day at the Hurn happy camp. Then you could have phoned the big man reverse charges and told him you weren't coming back!:}

I have read this thread with much interest, and i have to agree with what has been said a few times, if the pension and pay is to be maintained we have to stick together.
As for the non ops staff being foolish for working more than the contracted hours for free as Pprune radar states, this is a bit harsh. Having worked in the real world (ie non NATS) this is the norm, and is expected. There are a lot of people within NATS who would have a huge culture shock if they had to work for a truly commercial company, having worked in engineering for 10 years before joining NATS i can vouch for this.
NATS are a good company to work for and the terms and conditions, pay and pension is excellent. NATS is however extremely top heavy with administration and with respect to NSL, will have to reduce this if it is to become a viable commercial business. For example at my unit one of the office staff generated a change request, for a document which they controlled, which is a ludicrous waste of time and effort, :ugh: also if you accrue TOIL there are at least four forms to fill in, discounting NIBS. However this is part of the growing accountability and paper chasing culture within NATS, that (in my opinion) creates an enormous amount of unnecessary paperwork and jobs for more paper pushers.
To get back on thread though, we all have to stick together regardless of what position we hold in the company, otherwise the barron will be like a dog with multiple dicks, and we may as well all bend over, as our pay and pension will be f****d :eek:

It may be harsh, but I still think anyone working for free is foolish and potentially jeopardises everyone's work conditions. It might be expected in the real world, but then that's because they don't have a lot of union power.

We have stockpiles of dry powder in that respect, and the pensions will be the one thing that might actually ensure it's use, for once.

Hear hear Mr Radar, Sir :ok:

If Pensions is where the battle is to recommence, then cross their T when we get there, and then let 'em have powder and shot a-plenty :p

Meantime, steady as she goes, busy the crews with sabre-sharpening to quiet their mischief-making, and hold the line ...

Then we'll see who gets cut :}

Hi Slip and Turn. I wonder if you might share with us your experience in this matter? I know it's a public forum and you're most welcome to post but since this is a NATS specific issue I wonder what your interest is?
It's just I remember your posts being less than welcome in the "BA emergency descent" and the 'BBC reports Heathrow operation unsafe' threads.

Please forgive me if my request is out of order I'm just concerned you may muddy the waters if you are neither a NATS employee or an ATCO.

Well you might wonder, Del Prado.

What water is muddied where I have been, exactly?

Concentrate on the task at hand and let's see what's muddied and what's not, shall we?

So you're unwilling to divulge your aviation background or experience?
I'm not asking you to identify yourself, just your level of knowledge so I know how much credence to give your posts.
As for the waters that are being muddied, a quick look at your previous posts should give a clue, I seem to remember you had quite an arguement with the Heathrow guys on here about the safety of their operation after the BBC's 'expose'. You have since inflammed many experience posters in the BA emergency descent thread to the point their (and your) posts were deleted.

Are you in any way involved in commercial flying, air traffic control or an employee of NATS?

Del Prado, is this an official 'collar' or are you simply self-appointed Lions' Den police? I take it the toxic Rainboe is an experienced mate of yours, one not predisposed to being inflammed (sic)? :p

Does one in fact need aviation experience to comment on NATS bit of CAAPS, or indeed to comment on the fate of one of the few good defined benefit schemes left in the UK?

I repeat what water is muddied when I comment out of the ether? Happens all the time old chap in aviation, and ATC folks tend to be the best at making sense of unidentified transmissions ;)

So then, Negative Transponder to you, Sir ... and no reg, type, departure, destination, altitude or heading ... identifying turns only ... I am sure you can cope with that? It's not controlled airspace, is it ? :rolleyes:

Various forum posts( below) confirm probably not ATCO/NATS

http://www.pprune.org/search.php?searchid=3826135

But it's a public forum.....so I guess we should not attempt to judge "slip and turn"

I think the RED BARRON has done a good job (bonuses) of muddying the waters since his reign:ouch:
And remember this, he will jump ship with a shed load of money after he has shafted us:E

I am flattered, Air Farce. You guys crack me up :p

You're like children in a playground - is there any hope of anyone ever working out how to use the dry powder or surviving a thousand cuts when you scuttle around lke this? :hmm:

oo..er..look at DP now getting out of her pram two posts below this one ... amazing stuff from a member of the breed :ugh:

Lets hope so :) but I might not be NATS or ATCO either :ok:
Which reminds me of a story where a guy joined a Medical forum and ended up giving Medical lectures to students in the good old USA. He made a successful career till it was discovered his only medical expertise was taking an asprin ! :}

Slip and Turn, Rainboe is not a 'mate' of mine although he does seem to know what he's talking about.
A quick glance at the "Heathrow Separation" thread from March shows you arguing with zkdli, anotherthing, roffa and pointseven. (There maybe more but I stopped skimming at page 4.)
As far as i can tell they are all NATS controllers yet you still tried to argue with them when you don't seem to have the fainest grasp of basic ATC. If you want to contribute you could at least have the good grace to listen to the experts.


I should just find the 'ignore' button as so many of my colleagues seem to have done.

Sorry for the thread hijack folks.

Like this guy?

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/3...nternetui7.jpg

Slip n Turn is a wind up merchant, just ignore him and his pointless, ill informed rants and maybe he'll go away.

I reckon that's him in the photo above :8

@777 & AF: Slip and Turn may wind you up but it doesn't seem to take much to do that, now does it? Any news on pensions or powder, or just twiddling your thumbs waiting to be spoon-fed?

I must say that guy looks happy in his work and ready for something - there's a lot to be said for both outlooks :p

News on pensions came yesterday but as you don't work for NATS, why should we divulge the details? If you do work for NATS, then you already know...

Well I guess that's as good as its gonna get in my direction, Vercingetorix, thank you! Anyway, good luck with the pensions chaps. I am just a teenzy bit envious, but I don't want to see your scheme damaged as that might be the beginning of the end for so many others' pension prospects, and not just in aviation.

Would be interesting to see the gist of the NTUS statement, however.

I hope that the higher band units that are finally getting a taste of the very nasty medicine that has been dished out to the lower band units,get a grip here.Now is the chance to square up to this Nats management lot.The lower band units haven't been able to because we have been out voted.
If the higher band units kowtow to this,then we are totally F:mad:ked.
It's up to the units with the muscle to show that,for once.Don't let everyone else down. :uhoh:

Of course they are.

But this is a NATS Pay Rise thread :ugh:

As far as I'm aware, our pay deal for next year isn't being negotiated subject to any agreement over the pension.


And it never fails to amaze me that the people who criticise anyone who has the audacity to mention banding tend to be sitting in their ivory towers on a nice Band 5 salary. :rolleyes:

The day that Banding was accepted was the day that management saw they could divide us because that's exactly what it has done.

It may be entitled "2009 payrise" but, for whatever reason, 99% of the discussion has turned to pensions. If you don't like it I suggest you start another thread rather than trying to get the mods to make this an exclusive payrise thread. Get it edited and see what remains of the thread...most people, yourself excluded obviously, couldn't give a toss about the payrise...they want the pension sorted.

Mr 777,

Call me old-fashioned if you like, but I was always under the impression that when a thread had a title, then the conversation within that thread tended to relate to the title. :rolleyes:

If you want a Pensions thread, then might I respectfully ask that you start one.

I don't think your speaking for the majority of people when you say that people . But then again, your Band 5. So you probably don't.

However, what your missing is that this thread was started with reference to Pay negotiations NOT pension negotiations. And if a thread is started about Pay, then it would suggest that, actually, people COULD give a toss about the pay negotiations. :ok:

So does anybody who's visited Planet Earth recently (apologies to Captain Blackadder) really believe that an RPI + 4% - 6% pay offer can be negotiated...? And if there is a strike, I just hope Prospect's coffers are deep enough to subsidise its striking members for long enough... :hmm:

yes

Purely to stop all the bitching about it. :ouch: