Whitelighter. In that example none of the answers are correct. No where does it state he has his own car. He just has access to one. :}

I agree with Avoiding Action concerning the answers

Heathrow House 25/09/09
 

Anyone else due for stage1 on the date above?

Swanwick vs. Prestwick
 

Does anyone know the relative likelihood of being posted to Swanwick as opposed to Prestwick if you do area at college? Is it 50/50 or is Swanwick a bigger unit?

Oh well,

I did say it probably wasnt the best example. I shall ensure that in the future I dont offer any help, lest it should be inaccurate.

Swanwick is a bigger unit (AFAIK), thats if TMA/approach controllers do area at college - anyone help answer that?

Prestwick will have Manchester centre moving in soon, so increasing size, and then there's an Oceanic/North Atlantic operation from Prestwick too.

Overall I believe Swanwick handles larger airspace than Prestwick, so more manpower/ATCOs working and required there.

But I stand corrected of course by others! :}:cool:

No whitelighter, they just found it too easy to pick faults in someone elses VERY good post.

In these type of questions you do have to do a little bit of assumption as they dont use the same phrasing, so you can cross reference IE a thesaurus.

Anyway I thought it was a good post especially for people who are wooried about the english side of the test.

Peace Out!

As far as the English goes, I'd like to add that the recordings are made in standard "school/Queen" English. No dialects, strange accents, weird slang words or any such thing. Just nice English.

The only point really is if you understand the meaning of the story, i.e. if you are able to draw logical conclusions from in or reproduce information provided.

As far as I remember, there were two parts to this. In the first part the stories were very general in their theme (people driving cars, going shopping etc.) and the questions were more of a logical nature (if you understand negatives correctly, if you can evaluate conditions...)

The second part consisted of longer stories, aviation related (e.g. meteo phenomena) and the task was aimed on if you remember enough.

At least that is how I remember it. Overall, my impression was that if you speak decent English, there is no reason for not having 100% here.

Fretwanger,

The idea was not to draw faults as you put it but to draw whitelanger's attention to a possible oversight.

Hi!
 

Whitelighter & Flaps15, thank you very much for the info, you've been very helpful, I'll try & keep everything in mind. Good luck to everyone at stage 1,2 on the 25th :ok:

About to re-take!
 

Hey guys, been reading through all the pages for information.

Last year I applied and past the 1st, 2nd stage and then tooked the 3rd stage and didn't make it through. I was disappointed but after doing my research I realised that you can take light from it and realise many ATC's fail the first time around so I can re-apply in 12 months with experience. I did phone and e-mail NATS for feedback on my Stage 3 assessment and I heard nothing back which was disappointing. I kinda knew where I went wrong anyway's but you'd expect NATS to give out feedback.

I am going to re-apply very soon but I was wondering if I could get a bit of help from anyone which would be much appreciated.

1.) Where's the best place to arrange a tower visit and has anyone done it recently where they can give me any contact numbers etc. (this is one thing I didn't do on my first time around)

2.) Can anyone give any information about what's life is like as a student at the college and their job as a ATC where its area or aerdrome, pros and cons (had information before but new opinions and experiences are very useful)

Thank you very much,

Scott http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ies/thumbs.gif

Hey Scott,

Actually it's NATS standard policy not to give feedback, though a few people here have managed to get some by badgering them a bit, but its probably too late for you now. I guess it's not too big an issue if you have a fairly decent idea where you went wrong though.

Apparently the format of stages 2 and 3 has changed over the past 12 months, but I've no experience of what it was like previously so can't tell you how it now differs. There are some fairly good descriptions of each stage if you read back through the thread though.

I recently did a tower visit at Southampton, if you'd like then PM me and I can send you the contact details I have. At the minute NATS seem not to be encouraging tower visits until after stage 2, at which point most people seem to organise them by getting the contact details for the towers they want to visit via HR. I believe stage 3 involves a tour of Swanwick (can someone who has done it please correct me if I'm wrong) so you get to have a look at an area centre at that stage.

Hey guys,

I have my stage 1 tomorrow afternoon at Prestwick. Don't quite know whether I'm worried or confident right now.

Any last minute pointers before I head in there? Also, do people usually suit it up, or is it not that formal a day?

Why would you not wear a suit? Show the respect to yourself at least wear a shirt and tie, you'll not be on your own but some choose not to. Id rather be overdressed than underdressed

Learn your fractions of time, practice speed distance and time questions and read your document thoroughly taking out any details and making notes.

plane at 400mph, how far will he be in 30 mins.

Speed = Distance / Time
therefor
400 = D / (1/2), D = 400 x 1/2 = 200miles

Substitute fractions of time where you can, it will keep your speed up. You dont have much time.

Dress code: Personally I'd follow whatever NATS have said. Stage 1 used to be smart/casual (I'm assuming it still is), so I'd like to be seen to be able to follow instructions rather than showing up in a suit for the hell of it. Suits will be required later on when dress code is upgraded to smart for later stages.

Speed, distance, time. Rather than trying to do fractions in your head, you'll find it a lot easier to think in miles per minute rather than miles per hour. You'll also discover that the numbers in the questions are chosen so you can do it this way.

e.g. Aircraft flying at 420 knots. How far in 4 minutes?
420 knots = 7 nautical miles per minute. Distance travelled = 4 x 7 = 28 nautical miles. For me, that's easier than 420 x (1/15)...

Good luck!
 

For tomorrow.

Definitely wear a suit, when I had my Stage 1 I couldn't believe people turned up in jeans and trainers.

Always be confident and don't worry about anyone else there, your not competeing with anyone. Go there, concentrate and try your best, that's all you can do

Good luck again! :)

There is one thing better than being underdressed AND better than being overdressded... to dress appropriately, according to what you have been told and the stage you are at (in stage 1 you are just a number).

Based on that, my advice is forget the suit for stage 1!

I wore trousers (not jeans) and a shirt for my stage 1 and that was more than enough. In fact, I wore a suit wihout tie in my stage 2. Only for stage 3 did I wear a tie.

Scrotchidson
 

Scrotchidson,

You will probably struggle to arrange any kind of visit until you have passed S2 as other wise NATS just get far too many requests and don't have the time to organise tours etc. That said it is always worth a try...

I visited Swanwick after completing S2 and found it extremely worth while. Not only does it look good in S3 by demonstrating willingness it also helped me with a couple of the interview questions, i.e. 'Describe to me what you think the day in the life of an ATCO involves?'. I knew that precisely as I had taken a tour! It also gives you a great opportunity to have a good look round somewhere where you may end up spending 30 odd years of your life!!! They don't always allow but when I toured Swanwick we were lucky enough to plug into the London TC to watch and listen for half hour, plus chat to the ATCO who was operating. There is no better way to learn about the job...

After passing S3 I also took a tour up the Heathrow tower. This was absolutely amazing and I highly recommend it. Think I was plugged in for about 2 hours up there!

If you would like the details of who to contact to arrange a tour PM me, but as I said I doubt you will get any luck until after S2.

Haven't started yet mate sorry!

Good luck to all applicants :)

Anyone?
 

Hi Guys,

I have been looking at some SDT questions posted on the forum and came across this (below):

Aircraft descending at 1000ft/minute, cruising at 35000ft, no fuel at 400mph, which airport can they make?

At this speed, it will be hitting the ground in 35 minutes and has about 233.33nm to go. I have no idea whatsoever which airport it will make it!

SKOS,

The question will include either a choice of airports (with distances from aircraft starting position), or simply state that the nearest airfield is XXX nm away. That part must have been missed out on the question you found here.

Yeah, I believe the answers to most of those questions are a multiple choice of airports listed in terms of their current distance from the aircraft... so you just need to pick one which is less than the distance you think the aircraft can fly.

SDT
 

paperclip810, Pat42

Thanks for getting back to me - it now makes a lot more sense. Suppose in the answers, one was 230nm and the other 233nm. Do I then go for the 230nm instead considering it can also make it in 233.33nm (well, just!)?

Moreover, someone also made mention of being familiar with headwing/tailwind questions, any examples at all?

Thanks

I wondered this myself.. but as I remember I think there was only one answer the aircraft could actually make in each of these questions anyway, so it wasn't an important point. Did make the questions a bit pointless as you could just pick the lowest number and didn't really need to bother working the answer out properly (though I chose to work it out properly anyway, just in case ;)).

Think there were one or two questions regarding head/tail winds. These were fairly simple, something along the lines of "aircraft is flying at an airspeed of xxx mph with a tail wind of yyy mph, what is its ground speed?" in which case you just add x and y. If it were a head wind you take y from x etc. TBH, none of this is particularly hard, as long as you are clear on the meaning of a head wind or a tail wind it isn't something you need to practice. The main challenge in stage 1 isn't so much the difficulty of the questions (with the possible exception of the cube questions if you struggle with these) but the speed and pressure under which you have to answer them.

Good luck :)

Stage 3 - Interview
 

Hi guys

I have my stage 3 interview on Monday 28th and was looking for any advice you could give about what sort of questions I'll be getting asked, as I don't have a lot of experience with interviews of any type.

I realise this will probably have been asked before in this thread, but its a very long thread to search through, so anybody's help would be appreciated :ok:

There is quite an informative post from flaps15 about half way down on page 222 of this thread regarding stage 3

thanks, just spotted that when i started working backwards through the thread.

Any other hints or tips would still be greatly appreciated

Hi all, my first post on here - just a quick question...

I did my stage 2 assessments on September 11th, I've not yet received an email to say whether or not I was successful, but I have just received an email from NATS asking me to log on to the SHL site and complete some more assessments. I was wondering if anyone else has received the same email after having completed stage 2?

Here we go again
 

Well off to attempt stage 1 again tomorrow morning at Heathrow House, it's been a long year but can't wait to get started again. Anyone else there tomorrow morning?

Best of luck to all who are going through selection.

So where does 420 knots = 7nm per minute if not a fraction in your head?:hmm: Theres obviously more than one way to skin a cat.

I was pointing out a way to save time that works for me. Also it would be as simple as 420 x (4/60) which is same as writing (420 x 4)/60 which boils down. One calculation :ok:.

Hey-Hoh, more than one way to do it.
BTW, i dont remember any question in Knots and Nautical Miles, it was all mph and miles as i remember. But you will NOT need to convert any units.

Also for collision times that are for objects at same speed, half the distance.
For collisions where they are at different speeds add the speeds up.
1 plane at 500mph another at 400mph, 30 miles apart. How long before they collide.
Add their speeds together to make 900mph.

t= 30/900
simplify...
= 3/90hr
and again..
= 1/30 of an hour
= 2mins :E

You can bang through them in seconds if you are comfortable with fractions, but again its what YOU are comfortable with.

Good luck

Stage 3 21st Sept
 

Hey I had my Stage 3 on Monday 21st Sept. Found it quite a tough day, with a lot of waiting around. You start the day with the group exercise which lasts about 45 mins to an hour, and then the individual interviews start. I had my interview first and so was finish at about half 11. You have to stay the whole day though to have the tour at the end and you have lunch with the interviewers, so are able to grill them with any questions you may have.

Good luck to anyone going through the selection process!:ok::ok::ok:

Hey...
 

Im going tomorrow to Heathrow. I am pretty nervous as I don't know what level of difficulty to expect. From all the threads I have read it seems pretty solid. I have just been reading that Initial test booklet that NATS provided.

As for the cubes and diagramming, i am generally pretty good with these. I can complete a Rubix cube in about 3 minutes (although has no direct link to the test) just gives me a bit of confidence with my awareness and logical reasoning.

I am a bit worried about the maths section though, I thought it was only going to be basic checking? But, seems a lot more difficult with that included.

I am just practicing loads of Distance/speed/time calculations at the moment.

Hopefully, as its a multiple choice test. I can use my logic to calculate and elimininate potential wrong answers.

Best of luck to all... i'm going to need it.

What to wear
 

I have seen various postings on what to wear for the various assessment stages with various opinions.

I mean, does NATS really give any guidance on what to wear? I haven't seen it anywhere or in any of their emails to me - or am I missing something?

Hi wazzer1976, it's stage1 at Heatrhrow for me as well so see u then and good luck mate.

I'd just like to say first of all thanks to a lot of the posters on this forum- I have found your advice such a help.
I was meant to sit my stage one on 30/9 but have decided to put it back until 30/10 as I wanted to make sure my rusty maths was tip top!
First of all I have practised my long division and multiplication. Amazing how rusty I was at first, however practise does make perfect (or better at least) and hopefully I will be able to answer a few more questions due to the times saved.
I took a long hard look at my times tables and spent some time every day practising s/d/t questions (raf selection type s/d/t into google.)
I made a net of a cube to practise spatial awareness... Not to use during the practise tests... but to have a feel of and look at! It helps you get to grip with it.
Also, I have been in a very lucky position to sit in the flight deck numerous times as Im currently cabin crew. It has helped me to understand the motivation paper and I have been able to clarify anything im unsure of. The other day I was fortunate to be sat in the flight deck during a go around... very interesting!!:8 But im a bit nerdy like that!

ABC of ATC is defo helpful, and also SHL have their own psychometric testing book... look on amazon.

Compared to a month ago I feel more prepared and quite excited for my interview, I have my fingers and toes crossed that I will actually pass!

Hopefully I have not sent you all to sleep with such a long post. Good luck to all!:ok::D

SKOS,

I believe the invite to interview email should tell you, but it'll only be along the lines of "smart casual", which can be a very broadly interpretted term.

TBH, I wore a suit to stage 1 (even though I wouldn't classify this as smart casual) and was glad I did - everyone there on that particular day was dressed similarly and I certainly didn't feel over dressed. Off course there is no interview at stages 1 or 2 so arguably it doesn't really matter, but personally I'd rather play it safe than look a scruff (and you never know who's watching...). You could always dress smart and if you get there and realise you are the only one then just stuff your tie in your pocket and undue a button or two of your shirt.... and like magic you are now smart/casual.

i went in a suit for my stage 1 tests (stage 2 soon!!)
will be going in a suit for stage 2 as well, even though it says smart casual.

i've got a travel suit, which is very comfy, looks good and puts me in the right frame of mind.

I'd rather look smarter than necessary, than scruffier than expected.

plus, as Pat42 says, its easy to just take your tie off and shove it in your ppocket if you need to...

-A

Tower Visit
 

Had my tower visit today at Stansted. Was an amazing experience, i recommend it to everyone. Was there for over 4 hours. I plugged in with the controllers Tower and Ground, learnt a lot and it all seems relativerly simple now. Obviously theres a lot of background knowledge, but i am sure this job is for me and i want to be aero.
Did everyone that has had tower visits have same experiences?

Seb

P.S. All the questions to do with what to wear......you will feel under dressed in anything other than a suit. I didn't wear a tie to stage 2 but other than that wore and will wear a suit. Why risk looking the fool? (even though they apparently don't look at YOU until stage 3)

Well from all the feedback I am getting, it's going to be a black suit, white shirt and grey tie. Looks like for those who will be at Heathrow house tomorrow, you cannot miss me!

Hi Sebby, you said you were looking at area and now that you've had a tower visit, you are excited about aero. May be if you were to have an area visit, you could be swayed you know - not to suggest you should go for either in particular; just a thought.

SKOS
 

Yer i may change my mind but doubt it. I can't see my experience of Swanwick will be as thorough as my tower visit. So i will choose aero, and if i don't get it...never mind.

Good luck tomorrow!

Let me know how you do

Seb

SebbyK,

Don't forget that if you do go along the aero route you could end up at TC! No windows there unfortunately!

TC
 

paperclip810,

I suppose not if he decided to stick with only the aero license without adding an approach radar license - in that case wherever he's placed, there will be windows/views - he wouldn't have to go to terminal control, right?