It's Class F - Scottish provide a service to participating traffic on it/them. It's this that was delegated.

Coming back to CAS, the other big problem they'll have is that even if they get an Inverness CTR, DAP will want it to be connected to something. Not much point having the protection of Class D around Inverness if you get dumped into Class F or G just as you enter cloud in the climb. The days of isolated stand-alone control zones/SRAs, like Newcastle, Tees-side, Southend and Lydd used to be, are gone.
Ns

I see HIAL are advertising for non-radar APCs in Flight last week.

The delegation of airspace from NATS to Lossiemouth was for the Advisory routes W3D and W6D.

As for controlled airspace, I presented to a meeting at both Lossie and Kinloss for the introduction of CAS around Inverness in the summer of 2003. The Intiative was at that stage taken by the 2 stations as the writing was on the wall regarding the growth of Inverness. I then remember going to a meeting at HIAL HQ in which the agreed proposal was delivered to them on a plate. The dimensions of the Inverness CTA/CTZ were carefully worked out, regarding the base levels, that would allow for FJ to transit underneath them. This proposal took HIAL by surprise, but it was carefully planned by the 2 stations at the time.

The design allowed for something looking rather like the current Durham CTA/CTZ, but was extended to the west to allow for high terrain and the subsequent longer approach for a 3degree glidepath, additionally there was a stub linking the CTZ to W3D.

This proposal was put in place because it is impossible for Inverness to have an exclusive zone due to the position of Kinloss. The 7nm final point for both Kinloss RW08 and INV RW23 being almost coincident. Furthermore, consideration was given to a Moray Firth TMA surrounding all 3 airfields, with individual airfields having there own CTAs. However, this was rejected as the size of the thing would need to be huge and the amount of exemptions required for Mil FJ (speed, VFR at night etc) were considered too numerous to be worth it. With that said, without the ability for IFR ac under the control of Lossie to penetrate an INV CTA/CTZ the whole arrangement would not work, and would in effect prevent Kinloss from using 50% of its RWs. Shared access was the the overall requirement and thus the imputus for Lossie and Kinloss to be pro-active.

This proposal was submitted to the MIl DAP who declined to take it any further for "political" reasons.

What would be interesting would be to know how many movements Lossie and Kinloss have and the number of airproxes aircraft under their control have been involved in. If as I susppect these are not of sufficient cause for major concern, then it seems to suggest that large airliner aircraft, fast jets and numerous GA aircraft can operate in the Moray airspace with a level of safety assured through the provision of a radar service without the imposition of CAS. So how does the number of movements at Inverness compare and why isn't provision of a radar sevice without establishing CAS made a prerequisite before further expansion of traffic levels at Inverness?

And with the likely imposition of Mode S for all aircraft in the next few years, TCAS would add another level of safety that has hitherto been unavailable.

Any further developments ?
 

It seems to have gone quiet in snekyland - are there any further developments.

May be wrong but I believe the 'mandatory mode S' rule only applies to civil aircraft; lets face it, very few military aircraft even carry TCAS (probably only those which might operate in controlled airspace for long periods)

The mandate does apply to military aircraft, but they have a later compliance date of 2009 I believe. Currently MoD is looking to find the funding. :)

But in the real world as opposed to Eurocontrolia NATS radars will continue to see military Mode C returns and since the amount of mil tfc in CAS is minimal anyway this is a minor issue. They'll presumably equip the airways-frequenting types first (VC-10, Tristar, C-17, C-130) then worry about the pointy types later.
NS

Military will/have applied for exemption and will get it as state aircraft. Similar to 8.33 where even the eurofighter is not equipped.

BD

As I understand there will be very few military exemptions granted. The latest CAA Mode S Partial RIA hits everyone with its 'improved technical interoperability' dogma. Many military fast jets are included in the SIFF (Successor IFF) programme which includes a Mode S capability. Exemptions may possibly be applied to non-capable aircraft (gliders), histioric aircraft and aircraft within twelve months of an out of service date.

But isn't 8.33 only applicable to certain airspace - unlike Mode S which will be all pervasive?

http://www.egpe.demon.co.uk/html/new...s/CASmap2.jpeg

I don't know how out of date this pic is.


MJ

8.33 is applicable within Controlled Airspace and with the DFL coming down to FL195 in March that area gets much bigger ;)

BD

Inverness Radar
 

I am presently serving in Cyprus as an ATCO with the RAF. But have had enough and looking for a new lease of life. I served at Lossie and did the Inverness Radar Task while there. I thoroughly enjoyed this job and always said to the Inverness boys that I would love to do this full time. My only problem is that being military I hold no officially recognised licences but would like to apply for an ATCO post. The job when I was at Lossie worked fairly well in my opinion with only the odd bust up over the landline especially when Inv on 24 and Kinloss on 08 with who had the priority. Their traffic levels now necessitate their own radar. Highland Director is it worth my while applying?

Good luck to you Spotter, apply via the HIAL website but be aware that they regularly trawl the local population of each airports catchment area for bright young folk who are a lot younger than you and want to do exactly what you desire.

When I worked for the company, they had a very pro active approach to applicants from all sectors, although it would help your cause by a factor of 1000 if you already had the ADI rating - something to think about spending any resettlement funding on at CATC Bournmouth, ASTAC or Bae Cwmbran.

At the best its worth blowing £300 on an assessment, then you can either fund it yourself and be in a position of power to partially dictate your future.

Back to the CAS - although I have enormous respect for
C.S and the work he is doing at Inverness, until they get their own radar with SSR and passenger numbers exceed 1 Million, it won't even be considered - thats the latest gossip and goal post figures from the DAP.

Cyprus to Inverness
 

Spotter99 - I wish I were in a position to advise you but alas I'm just an ATCO - the lowest form of life within HIAL. I've long since given up trying to predict what management might do next. I wouldn't trust anything they tell you either.
Stornoway is the crisis unit at present in terms of Atco shortages - so beware. You wouldn't be the first to have fallen victim to a broken HIAL 'promise' only to find yourself banished and bonded in the Hebrides for years on end.
Be aware also that HIAL management find it difficult to conceive that anyone over the age of 40 is worthwhile investing in. There are middle-aged ATCOs at Inverness who've spent their entire careers working for the company who've been overlooked for Radar training. The £13,000 course is seen as too much to risk. Suggestions that consideration ought to be given to the operatioal experience of these guys, tend to be met with lots of sucking of teeth and shaking of heads by the non-operational management types.
Sorry if that's not exactly what you were hoping to hear but that's the way things are from my perspective anyway. It'd do no harm to contact them though. HIAL advertised in Flight just a few weeks ago with the slogan 'Ten Airports - One vision'. As far as I'm aware the number of valid ATCOs who were considered for interview was zero. :uhoh:
There is just a chance that next time the Ad will read - 'Ten Airports - One ATCO.' :)

niknak

how firm are these pax numbers in the gossip?

OWZ

Ocean,

all I can say is that DAP have finally woken up to the fact that you don't have to have a million air transport movements to get a million passengers, Inverness should be able to achieve the required figure in the next couple of years but if they don't get their own radar with SSR, they won't get CAS.

Master Plan
 

Page 28 of the just released Inverness Airport Master Plan, says that by 2010 the airport will have developed its own radar on site. Currently phase one is under way. The provision of seven day radar cover will facilitate the move towards designation of controlled airspace.
Anyone care to comment

Egbert Bear

A tad more realistic than some of the pronunciations I've heard in the last little while.
NS