Wouldn't happen. Just because an airport decide to sack NATS doesn't indicate anything about it's need for CAS. The process for justification of CAS has changed so much over the years, and with an increasingly litigeous society would like to see DAP try and remove CAS from someone without very good justification.

As a late comer to this thread, and with more than a passing (mostly historic) interest in the subject, can someone give me a brief heads up of where the Inverness radar situation is please? I presume the radar hasn't been built yet; two sites I heard rumoured are the south ridge (near where the Bandit mail plane went in, ironically) or over the Firth on the Black Isle near the TV masts; anyone confirm?? Ta.

Someone else will have to give you the siting details. The contract has been signed with Thales ATM to provide PSR/SSR and the programme has begun. In the meantime the feed from Lossie will continue.

I understand it will sited on the airfield - location on the BI was ruled out for tech reasons.

Radar position
 

If you go to www.hial.co.uk and look at Appendix 3 of their master plan you will see the proposed location for the radar head
EB

Isn't this CAS argument a bit dull??
 

Sorry, a bit confused over this huge desire for controlled airspace when the controllers have a radar for the provision of a radar service? If an aircraft is receiving Radar Advisory, as I understand the majority of their commercial aircraft ask for, then separation standards are prescribed....and so if these services are correctly applied, why do you need to build further protection when the controllers there are quite capable in providing it using the expensive equipment they have got. The RAF controllers seem to have managed for a huge number of years for Inverness traffic; surely you are not saying the controllers are not up to the standard or are not applying the correct separation standards for the radar services being provided! :ooh:

How do you guarantee protection against unknown traffic, which may or not be squawking ?? You don't. You try to provide separation but it can never be guaranteed.

Inverness is building up in to a busy little place, in an area where there are lots of legitimate discrete operations by uncontrolled aircraft. I can understand therefore why they are looking for something to protect the approach airspace.

Heading Is Good,

Why CAS?
Because its not the first time that a bugsmasher decides to fly through the ILS onto 05 at 6 or 7d, not talking to a soul, causing all sorts of involuntary reactions on the flightdeck!! :eek:

Not illegal because its class G and theres nothing to stop them doing it. Not good airmanship, but we aren't all blessed with that are we?

There are a lot of homebuild's in the area without transponders, which as RADAR says above, would make it impossible for the radar controller to provide protection to IFR traffic, esp. when established on the ILS.

Inverness Radar
 

Any update on whats happening at Inverness? Radar still only appears to operate Mon to Fri. The weekends seem to be really busy whenever I'm up there must be one of the busiest units to operate non radar with so many scheduled flights about.

Thales project ongoing, not due for installation until middle of next year, operational by autumn. Radar projects generally take a couple of years from flash to bang (safety cases etc).

Radar yes CAS no
 

Forgive me for laughing my socks off! What I am hearing right now is that the CAA, ATC units and the Airlines judge it safe to have CAT hooning around without radar on the days that most recreational pilots are also flying , but will some time in the near future explain that CAS is needed to protect these same flights, even after there is radar at week ends. So is what is going to happen on this coming weekend safe or not? If it is acceptable and safe now..there is no need for CAS in the future ! Some level of consistency in views is required.
While Inverness has seen an increase in flights recently I have heard that several are unlikely to continue and traffic could reduce again, especially if oil remains expensive and taxation continues to rise.
My view is that Radar 7 days a week is essential and I cannot understand Inverness being allowed to operate without it, but CAS is totally unnecessary.

Agreed, radar is essenitial, and Inverness have taken steps to address the issue. The CAS topic is different in many respects, radar will protect you from the guy wearing SSR, but non squawking pop ups are a different matter altogether. If you look at Inverness, what exactly is that pop up, an aircraft or one of the many wind turbines which show exactly the same characteristics on radar.

Places like Inverness are merely trying to create a small 'known environment' where they know their traffic is safe during departure and arrival. The establishment of CAS should not in reality hamper other airspace users, provided you are willing to talk to the airport you're flying in close proximity too.

DO:Does the Inverness radar actually see any wind turbines?
NS

"The establishment of CAS should not in reality hamper other airspace users"
I agree it shouldn't but sadly it does. Look at the volume of airspace that is the Scottish TMA (inc EDI and GLA) and think how much of it is actually needed. Then think how aircraft that do not get clearance through have to take large detours you will see why CAS is a problem. Most pilots don't mind a known traffic environment but sadly they become a "no traffic environment" too often, as the above is. If one were to plot the actual tracks that are flown it would represent a small percentage of the volume of airspace. Airspace reserved for cross runways that are seldom used. Airspace down to the surface 10 or more miles from the airfield. Airspace below RVA. SIDs that reflect climb gradients of aeroplanes long since consigned to museums etc.
Is the reason for no radar at weekends due to the cost of staffing or the lack of staffing? If so It would be likely that non CAT would be refused entry to any CAS due controller work load/shortage ?

Not sure whether the Lossie PSR currently has line of sight to any Wind Farms, but I know there is a lot of planned development in that region that will be visible to radar.

Bad Bear:EDI and GLA virtually never deny clearances through their CAS unless you want to plough right through their SIDs/STARs at 90kts in IMC
Then again a fair chunk of the Scottish TMA is Class E allowing you to blunder through VFR without even speaking to anyone - and that's a bit which is extensively and intensively used by Glasgow inbounds!
But those bits of airspace are also used for the jet SIDs off EDI 06 and GLA 05 so not much would get released even if they shut the cross runways.
A legacy, I suspect, of the fact that the GLA and PWK CTRs used to be one big CTR called the Scottish CTR i.e. there used to be more CAS, not less (maybe you didn't know that).
The EDI example has been raised by 1000ft in the last 2-3 years. The GLA chunk is Class E so hardly an imposition.
Both EDI and GLA have some quite demanding SID climb gradients and they were increased when the airspace changes were implemented 2-3 years ago.
NS

danieloakworth

AFAIK the windfarm at Cairn Uish is in direct LOS to the south from Lossie.

Hmmm, but does it appear on the radar display *at Inverness*?
NS

Any jobs??
 

So.... when the new radar is installed and Inverness can presumably provide seven day a week coverage, will they be taking on experienced radar controllers or will they be training from within.

In other words, can I have a job?

I wouldn't have thought you would have had any difficulty getting a job if you're looking to relocate, I can think of more than one airport desparate to get their hands on decent radar controllers.