Hilarious RT procedures in the states
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Hilarious RT procedures in the states
Can anyone explain to me why they have no discipline on the RT procedures in the states? Every tower seems to adapt its own practice and it's not unusal that you hear pilots chatting with the tower! Seriously, I couldn't care less of what the person in the tower had for breakfast, especially when it delays my call.
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Martin1234,
You must be talking about contract towers. Seriously I doubt that the problem is as bad as you let on, because any good controller knows that excess phraselogy is a controllers worse enemy. Now only if we could get pilots phraselogy under control, that would truly be a miracle.
Mike R
NATCA FWA
You must be talking about contract towers. Seriously I doubt that the problem is as bad as you let on, because any good controller knows that excess phraselogy is a controllers worse enemy. Now only if we could get pilots phraselogy under control, that would truly be a miracle.
Mike R
NATCA FWA
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Obviously a delecate subject
TRF4EVR, what an attitude! First of all, you would probably be unemployed if it wasn't for all traffic made by European pilots, secondly and thankfully, I am back home!
I'm flying helicopters so I'm mostly speaking about smaller general aviation airports. However, I find that the ATC at international airports work professionally while some controllers at smaller airports might have an attitude like TRF4EVR.
As a pilot, you don't need a RT certificate in the states while they take the radio procedures more seriously in the rest of the world. What about you guys in the towers; is it easier to become a tower-man in the states?
I'm flying helicopters so I'm mostly speaking about smaller general aviation airports. However, I find that the ATC at international airports work professionally while some controllers at smaller airports might have an attitude like TRF4EVR.
As a pilot, you don't need a RT certificate in the states while they take the radio procedures more seriously in the rest of the world. What about you guys in the towers; is it easier to become a tower-man in the states?
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Oh, pardon. I thought you were just winding us up, but if it was a serious question, please accept my unreserved apologies.
Allow me to make a humble attempt at answering your very earnest queries.
In order:
Becuase we all have bad "attitudes". Not just about jackoff foreigners cloaking their petty insults (towards the aviation system in which they inexplicably chose to learn) in the form of "questions". But also towards kittens, puppies, downtrodden foreigners, etc.
Not really a question, but let's "give it a go" as you limeys would say.
Imagine, daring to communicate with the proletariat in the tower. Next thing you know, you're going to find the mechanics walking fewer than ten steps behind.
Erm, yeah, well, once again, not really a question. But here we go. Seeing as how my job is teaching people to fly Cessnas and unfortunately I'm not gifted enough to make it at a "300-hour wonder" pilot factory for disaffected Europeans, I'm having a hard time figuring out how my job is in jeoparady from the (admittedly humiliating) hypothetical loss of blowhards such as yourself. But that's probably just my "aw-shucks" backwoods lack of sophistication speaking.
Hurry back.
Ah, a Robinson Captain. Neat. If you ever consider changing to fixed wing, I'm sure you've got a career ahead of you at BA.
Like, me, the vast majority of silly provincial "tower-men" in the states probably haven't been boning up on the requirements to become an ATCO in the "big league" model of efficency that is the EU. Suffice it to say, though, that I'm sure the requirments are much greater over there, just like everything else.
Go suck a lemon. Or for those of you that prefer the King's English "get stuffed".
Allow me to make a humble attempt at answering your very earnest queries.
In order:
Can anyone explain to me why they have no discipline on the RT procedures in the states?
Every tower seems to adapt its own practice and it's not unusal that you hear pilots chatting with the tower!
Imagine, daring to communicate with the proletariat in the tower. Next thing you know, you're going to find the mechanics walking fewer than ten steps behind.
First of all, you would probably be unemployed if it wasn't for all traffic made by European pilots, secondly and thankfully, I am back home!
secondly and thankfully, I am back home!
I'm flying helicopters so I'm mostly speaking about smaller general aviation airports.
What about you guys in the towers; is it easier to become a tower-man in the states?
Go suck a lemon. Or for those of you that prefer the King's English "get stuffed".
No wonder the country is rapidly going down the drain 
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That's the best come back you can come up with? TRF4EVR at least had the courtesy to put some time into his well thought-out insults. He is way ahead at the moment (despite the ordinary score from the russian judge).
Funniest post I have read for a while
Funniest post I have read for a while
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TRF4EVR
Although I should be supporting the Brits, must admit that was the best 'ram it' post I've read for ages !
Hilarious.
Martin1234 Sorry, but you did ask for that !
AVMAN Where's your sense of humour ?!
Although I should be supporting the Brits, must admit that was the best 'ram it' post I've read for ages !
Hilarious.
Martin1234 Sorry, but you did ask for that !
AVMAN Where's your sense of humour ?!
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Guess no one recognises tongue in cheek responses anymore.
I took the intention of TRF4EVR's initial response to be humourous.
Martin1234, the problem with tarring everyone with the same brush as you did with your question is that the vast majority who do things properly take it as an attack on them.
I have seen people infringe Controlled Airspace .. therefore why do ALL pilots do that ?
I have heard some truly awful RT from helicopter pilots ...therefore why is the RT of ALL helicopter pilots bad ??
Neither assumption is true of course but unless you give a specific case then it is implied that it applies to the total group you are criticising.
I'm sure you get the drift.
Now, play nice everyone, or I'll take your toys out of the pram !!!
I took the intention of TRF4EVR's initial response to be humourous.
Martin1234, the problem with tarring everyone with the same brush as you did with your question is that the vast majority who do things properly take it as an attack on them.
I have seen people infringe Controlled Airspace .. therefore why do ALL pilots do that ?
I have heard some truly awful RT from helicopter pilots ...therefore why is the RT of ALL helicopter pilots bad ??
Neither assumption is true of course but unless you give a specific case then it is implied that it applies to the total group you are criticising.
I'm sure you get the drift.
Now, play nice everyone, or I'll take your toys out of the pram !!!
Before "Ze Germans" get here
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Unfortunatly, due to maintainence on the site, the search engine is down. I was trying to reference some similar threads on this topic. There are some better threads on this that didnt digress into such silly silly "Lets have a go at the U.S" ****e, for want of a better word.
In the U.S standard R.T is not given the same emphasis as it is in the U.K. On the whole I find it to be more user friendly and generally conforms to the attitude towards flying over here. They make it a lot easier to just get on with it and not get bogged down with loads of extra complications as I feel they sometimes do in the U.K. I like to use proper R.T as I feel its an extra margin of safety. There have been accidents due to confusion, I dare someone to stand up and say theres not. So why would you not use it? For example, at my local field the Controllers brought in a new phrase "Position and hold". So picture me holding short and they say that. Does it mean stay in my position or position myself on the runway. It would be so stupid to have an accident over something which would be sorted by using a standard phrase.
Another point to note is that Europe still has a higher accident rate then the U.S
My final point which really reall irks me. I think some who live in the U.K underestimate how patriotic they are here in the U.S As a guest in their country I have quickly realized that to express an opinion that does not conform with the Masses is very unpopular indeed. For example to disagree with the War is almost a crime. Isint that what th U.S is about? Freedom of speech and opinion? Its the reason why, on threads such as these when someone has the "audacity" to suggest that there is room for improvement in some area of flying in the U.S, all the members from this side of the pond feel that its there patriotic duty to jump in and get all aggresive. Grow up guys. If you want to have a shouting match go elsewhere,cant you have the maturity to argue the post with intelligent comments and not insults. I can show you countless examples of childish remarks if need be.I agree on this post that you were tempted into it though.
( Having lit the fuse, he stands well back)
In the U.S standard R.T is not given the same emphasis as it is in the U.K. On the whole I find it to be more user friendly and generally conforms to the attitude towards flying over here. They make it a lot easier to just get on with it and not get bogged down with loads of extra complications as I feel they sometimes do in the U.K. I like to use proper R.T as I feel its an extra margin of safety. There have been accidents due to confusion, I dare someone to stand up and say theres not. So why would you not use it? For example, at my local field the Controllers brought in a new phrase "Position and hold". So picture me holding short and they say that. Does it mean stay in my position or position myself on the runway. It would be so stupid to have an accident over something which would be sorted by using a standard phrase.
Another point to note is that Europe still has a higher accident rate then the U.S
My final point which really reall irks me. I think some who live in the U.K underestimate how patriotic they are here in the U.S As a guest in their country I have quickly realized that to express an opinion that does not conform with the Masses is very unpopular indeed. For example to disagree with the War is almost a crime. Isint that what th U.S is about? Freedom of speech and opinion? Its the reason why, on threads such as these when someone has the "audacity" to suggest that there is room for improvement in some area of flying in the U.S, all the members from this side of the pond feel that its there patriotic duty to jump in and get all aggresive. Grow up guys. If you want to have a shouting match go elsewhere,cant you have the maturity to argue the post with intelligent comments and not insults. I can show you countless examples of childish remarks if need be.I agree on this post that you were tempted into it though.
( Having lit the fuse, he stands well back)
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Methinks this is going to degenerate into a 'them V us' (us NOT YOU-ES) mud slinging match.
I eagerly await the next intelligent chapter.
28th,,
P.S. What's wrong with "Line Up and Wait?"....
I eagerly await the next intelligent chapter.
28th,,
P.S. What's wrong with "Line Up and Wait?"....
The US controllers must be doing something right. According to ACI, In terms of operations in the preceeding 12 months leading up to March,03, 9 of the 10 busiest airports in the world are in the US. Of the top 30, 24 are in the US. The only non US airport to crack the top 10? sorry its in France, CDG at number 6. LHR comes in at number 13. VNY, a general aviation airport north of LAX, with no airline operations is a touch busier than LHR. In terms of passenger operations, yeah LHR is pretty busy. That speaks to the capabilites of the airport design and its landside operations abilities however.
Source: Airports council information.
http://www.airports.org
Source: Airports council information.
http://www.airports.org
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Martin 1234
I've flown quite a lot in the states and it's true that their attitude seems more relaxed, but after some time I realised that they are very professional in getting the job done and the system works well in general.
Maybe you ought to go and get a certain part of your anatomy loosened
AT least this is the ATC forum and no one has mentioned Boeings anfd 'buses yet
Can anyone explain to me why they have no discipline on the RT procedures in the states?
Maybe you ought to go and get a certain part of your anatomy loosened
AT least this is the ATC forum and no one has mentioned Boeings anfd 'buses yet
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In my opinion ATC in the US is far and away the best in the world. Europe is getting better but they have a long way to go in the efficient movement of air traffic. It wasn't all that long ago that when flying in Europe you had to have runway slots, departure slots, airway slots, arrival slots. You would finally get all your ducks in a row; hurtle into the air and be greeted by an erie quiet. Hardly any traffic! The Americans understand and use aviation better than any one else on the planet. Lighten up guys.
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The US controllers must be doing something right. According to ACI, In terms of operations in the preceeding 12 months leading up to March,03, 9 of the 10 busiest airports in the world are in the US. Of the top 30, 24 are in the US. The only non US airport to crack the top 10? sorry its in France, CDG at number 6. LHR comes in at number 13
[quoteMy final point which really reall irks me. I think some who live in the U.K underestimate how patriotic they are here in the U.S As a guest in their country I have quickly realized that to express an opinion that does not conform with the Masses is very unpopular indeed. For example to disagree with the War is almost a crime. Isint that what th U.S is about? Freedom of speech and opinion? Its the reason why, on threads such as these when someone has the "audacity" to suggest that there is room for improvement in some area of flying in the U.S, all the members from this side of the pond feel that its there patriotic duty to jump in and get all aggresive. Grow up guys. If you want to have a shouting match go elsewhere,cant you have the maturity to argue the post with intelligent comments and not insults. I can show you countless examples of childish remarks if need be.I agree on this post that you were tempted into it though.]
