refusing access to class D airspace?!?
I say there boy
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So if I got a slab of Stella delivered to LTCC with my aircraft's call-sign on the gift label, would in guarantee me City, Luton and Stansted CTR crossing every time? 
Press to Reset
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Many times on a trip I have been tempted to ask the ATCO if they are a member and what their handle is...
MC.
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MC said
I trust the exchange was as per CAP413...!
MD
A few months ago I did hear another pilot on frequency ask the FISO (an ATCO on his day off) if he was "the guy on PPRuNe" or similar, the handle was mentioned in the subsequent exchange.
MD
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A fascinating thread! I've been following for a long time.
I'm essentially with WCollins. I get virtually all the transits I ask for, sometimes with a slight delay or a rerouting, but usually "as requested".
Often, I've been even more chuffed when the helpful ATC folks have arranged a handover to the next unit along my path - without me asking (or sometimes, even knowing they could do that).
Years ago, I was refused a transit by Essex Radar, and growled (elsewhere) about it. Several ATC folks replied, and suggested I should visit and watch what they do.
Having seen LTCC, Luton, and Swanwick, I have a better understanding of what goes on, and that helps a lot. (Thanks to Warped Factor and Aceatco for that education. Much appreciated.)
I'd suggest that all pilots should visit their local ATC and one of the big centres - it really does help.
I don't argue with the ATC folks about airspace classification - that's down to someone else, and yes I do have some beefs about that! My top bugbear is the Class A down almost to sea level from Southampton to the Channel Islands, which forces me to route across a large chunk of France - under threat from the French military if I get it wrong. I really don't see the justification for that, especially not as Class A.
I'm essentially with WCollins. I get virtually all the transits I ask for, sometimes with a slight delay or a rerouting, but usually "as requested".
Often, I've been even more chuffed when the helpful ATC folks have arranged a handover to the next unit along my path - without me asking (or sometimes, even knowing they could do that).
Years ago, I was refused a transit by Essex Radar, and growled (elsewhere) about it. Several ATC folks replied, and suggested I should visit and watch what they do.
Having seen LTCC, Luton, and Swanwick, I have a better understanding of what goes on, and that helps a lot. (Thanks to Warped Factor and Aceatco for that education. Much appreciated.)
I'd suggest that all pilots should visit their local ATC and one of the big centres - it really does help.
I don't argue with the ATC folks about airspace classification - that's down to someone else, and yes I do have some beefs about that! My top bugbear is the Class A down almost to sea level from Southampton to the Channel Islands, which forces me to route across a large chunk of France - under threat from the French military if I get it wrong. I really don't see the justification for that, especially not as Class A.
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Having seen LTCC, Luton, and Swanwick
(and explain some things to you)
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Alan
As you know, I have visited Thames/SVFR and found it fascinating. I just don't know how you guys keep so many balls in the air. The day I was there was the most recent "hurricane" and it was fascinating being in the tower watching your colleagues...er..."discussing" whether to change to 23 (a major financial and safety decision) and seeing aircraft fleeing westerly runways for South Westerly ones (Thames were pleading with Biggin to stay open to take some overflow that Stansted was finding difficult to manage.)
On the more general point, I flew today from Biggin, entered LHR at Fairoaks, routed Ascot to WOD, then through the Lyneham Zone to land at Filton, then straight through Brum, through EMA, then LBA and Teesside to land at NWC, and exactly the same route back ('cept I didn't bother 119.9 on the way back), which I make 1 Class A and 10 Class D zones* in one day and I was never asked to deviate from my route, change my level or change flight rules once. The closest I got was EMA saying "maintain your present heading" then 5 minutes later "resume own navigation" (the beam bar hadn't moved anyway.)
I say again and again...there is no problem.
W
*12 if you count arrivals and departures.
As you know, I have visited Thames/SVFR and found it fascinating. I just don't know how you guys keep so many balls in the air. The day I was there was the most recent "hurricane" and it was fascinating being in the tower watching your colleagues...er..."discussing" whether to change to 23 (a major financial and safety decision) and seeing aircraft fleeing westerly runways for South Westerly ones (Thames were pleading with Biggin to stay open to take some overflow that Stansted was finding difficult to manage.)
On the more general point, I flew today from Biggin, entered LHR at Fairoaks, routed Ascot to WOD, then through the Lyneham Zone to land at Filton, then straight through Brum, through EMA, then LBA and Teesside to land at NWC, and exactly the same route back ('cept I didn't bother 119.9 on the way back), which I make 1 Class A and 10 Class D zones* in one day and I was never asked to deviate from my route, change my level or change flight rules once. The closest I got was EMA saying "maintain your present heading" then 5 minutes later "resume own navigation" (the beam bar hadn't moved anyway.)
I say again and again...there is no problem.
W
*12 if you count arrivals and departures.
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WC
I know you have old boy.......but you are always welcome - especially as we are with the big boys now at West Drayton!
People probably complain as they don't know what we can offer. For example....
1. Nice Try to the light aircraft (G registered) who asked to go from Booker to BIG direct!! (said "I didn't think you would let me but thought I should try"!!!!)
2. Good effort for the French Heli pilot who was surprised he couldn't route Denham direct to DET!
So when refused they end up in the group who never get access to CAS.
Seriously - apart from the point about professional/confident sounding RT - I am sure you asked for REALISTIC routings each time. No wonder you got what you wanted!!
It's all about education me thinks!!
See ya old boy...
I know you have old boy.......but you are always welcome - especially as we are with the big boys now at West Drayton!
People probably complain as they don't know what we can offer. For example....
1. Nice Try to the light aircraft (G registered) who asked to go from Booker to BIG direct!! (said "I didn't think you would let me but thought I should try"!!!!)
2. Good effort for the French Heli pilot who was surprised he couldn't route Denham direct to DET!
So when refused they end up in the group who never get access to CAS.
Seriously - apart from the point about professional/confident sounding RT - I am sure you asked for REALISTIC routings each time. No wonder you got what you wanted!!
It's all about education me thinks!!
See ya old boy...
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Yes WC, a very convincing demonstration of what can be done, believe him everyone else it can be done. I shall be testing this new found knowledge on Gatwick next time I'm airborne , last time I tried with them they didn't even reply to me after several calls, so maybe this time will be different.
Gotta go.. to my elocution lesson :-)
Gotta go.. to my elocution lesson :-)
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SimJock,
As an 'umble occasional Gatwick approach controller we don't train folk to ignore r/t calls.
If they didn't reply the chances are they did not hear you or you were trying on the wrong frequency
Always feel free to request transit, but please just a little forethought in what you ask for.
WF.
Yes WC, a very convincing demonstration of what can be done, believe him everyone else it can be done. I shall be testing this new found knowledge on Gatwick next time I'm airborne , last time I tried with them they didn't even reply to me after several calls, so maybe this time will be different.
If they didn't reply the chances are they did not hear you or you were trying on the wrong frequency
Always feel free to request transit, but please just a little forethought in what you ask for.
WF.
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WF
"If they didn't reply the chances are they did not hear you or you were trying on the wrong frequency "
Ahhhh yes ! that'll be it then, bit naughty of that other LGW traffic to be on the wrong frequency too though
Then again maybe I was 'out of radio range' at MAY
Perhaps I was just unlucky.. I'm sure you're all a great bunch of guys and girls at LGW and I look forward to receiving my next clearance from you all real soon
"If they didn't reply the chances are they did not hear you or you were trying on the wrong frequency "
Ahhhh yes ! that'll be it then, bit naughty of that other LGW traffic to be on the wrong frequency too though
Then again maybe I was 'out of radio range' at MAY
Perhaps I was just unlucky.. I'm sure you're all a great bunch of guys and girls at LGW and I look forward to receiving my next clearance from you all real soon
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On the more general point, I flew today from Biggin, entered LHR at Fairoaks, routed Ascot to WOD, then through the Lyneham Zone to land at Filton, then straight through Brum, through EMA, then LBA and Teesside to land at NWC, and exactly the same route back ('cept I didn't bother 119.9 on the way back), which I make 1 Class A and 10 Class D zones* in one day and I was never asked to deviate from my route, change my level or change flight rules once. The closest I got was EMA saying "maintain your present heading" then 5 minutes later "resume own navigation" (the beam bar hadn't moved anyway.)
Those who don't have the benefit of reading pprune would surely appreciate some of the "hints and tips" about what routes are likely to work and which are not. I've learnt quite a lot from threads such as this but I'm sure there's lots more to it.
One thing I'd like to know is how you cope with a situation where you need to talk to many different people in quick succession. e.g. you said you transitted London via Fairoaks. How do you manage to talk to two people at once...?
Mark