French Air Traffic Strike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: England
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
French Air Traffic Strike
French Air Traffic Control strike on monday in sympathy with other sectors POSSIBLY being privatised.
A trifle militant, don't you think, they are not even striking for themselves. Wait a minute, they can't do that, they haven't had months of discussion and it just might be illegal.
It'd never happen here.
A trifle militant, don't you think, they are not even striking for themselves. Wait a minute, they can't do that, they haven't had months of discussion and it just might be illegal.
It'd never happen here.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Bordeaux
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
French Air Traffic Control strike on monday in sympathy with other sectors POSSIBLY being privatised.
Out of 2000 french atcos, maybe 50 will actually be on strike tomorrow... But our governement strangely decided to launch the "minimum service plan", with all those *very* heavy consequences on traffic.
Two possible explanations :
1) our administration is stupid;
2) our administration wants to decredibilize us just before the immensely important european council on the 5th of December. So, if we decide to strike for this vital matter, our claims won't be heard by public opinion. Smart move...
I'm the first to be disguted by that and BTW, I'm not on strike tomorrow, but that won't change anything.
But one thing *is* sure : I'll soon do my best to defend my status, not to let DGAC turn into another NATS. I don't know what is sector closed due to "staff shortage" and I'm not eager to find out, thanks. I don't want supervisors answering me : "you'll do fine without this expensive [insert whatever feature was unserviceable by the time of the Uberligen accident]" etc.
It'd never happen here
Last edited by XFL; 25th Nov 2002 at 20:50.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: England
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
XFL
I think you mis-understand me, my friend, I am not attacking the french Air Traffic Republic for their willingness to fight injustices; quite the opposite. I'm using a quaint english(british) trait called sarcasm.
I think you mis-understand me, my friend, I am not attacking the french Air Traffic Republic for their willingness to fight injustices; quite the opposite. I'm using a quaint english(british) trait called sarcasm.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Bordeaux
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think you mis-understand me, my friend, I am not attacking the french Air Traffic Republic for their willingness to fight injustices; quite the opposite. I'm using a quaint english(british) trait called sarcasm.
I had just left another forum where we were being flamed by pilots for this strike, and I guess I just read what I "wanted" to read... And I woke up at 4 AM this morning (is that a valid excuse ?)
OK, now let's find another thread where I might be more ridiculous than here, which should be a challenge
OK it`s not you`re first language, and if it`s not a word, it should be!
I kinda like to "forge" new words, whatever the language is, just a hobby of mine (OK, I should get a life... )
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dont lean far enough to consider myself a socialist leftist, but.....GO FOR IT BOYS & GIRLS.
As ATC's we basically earn a reasonable but simply not big enough sallary, we generally pay the highest possible tax rates for our given country, we generally have huge mortgages, we generally contribute far more to our respective countries social services structure etc etc and No we dont have the company car (except for the sallary package office boys), we generally have remarkably crappy breakroom facilities, we generally work with equipment / procedures designed to induce error,we generally get treated pretty poorly!
If being a permanent government employee means a greater sense of security is possible versus the privatised world and/or contract world, if working for the government means you can tell the boss to "fix this peice of garbage now or were out", if working for the government means an equitable workplace where reprisals for your diligent application to task within the rules are not possible, then good on the froggies.
We've all heard the stories about the Canucks, Kiwis, Aussies & these pages are chockas with teabag tales of woe. If a good old fashioned "stick it up your jumper" strike is going to get the results we all dreamed of, then who can I send my 10 euros to for the strike fund.
As ATC's we basically earn a reasonable but simply not big enough sallary, we generally pay the highest possible tax rates for our given country, we generally have huge mortgages, we generally contribute far more to our respective countries social services structure etc etc and No we dont have the company car (except for the sallary package office boys), we generally have remarkably crappy breakroom facilities, we generally work with equipment / procedures designed to induce error,we generally get treated pretty poorly!
If being a permanent government employee means a greater sense of security is possible versus the privatised world and/or contract world, if working for the government means you can tell the boss to "fix this peice of garbage now or were out", if working for the government means an equitable workplace where reprisals for your diligent application to task within the rules are not possible, then good on the froggies.
We've all heard the stories about the Canucks, Kiwis, Aussies & these pages are chockas with teabag tales of woe. If a good old fashioned "stick it up your jumper" strike is going to get the results we all dreamed of, then who can I send my 10 euros to for the strike fund.
Time merchant
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Belgium
Posts: 352
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
XFL
I think you have a point, privatisation of NATS has been a complete disaster if the comments in these pages are anything to go by, but what is next weeks strike all about? Surely the single sky philosophy is just common sense. There is a fine line between striking for what you believe to be right, and striking to protect your own cosy arrangements at the expense of the rest of us.
Going on strike too often over many diverse issues ( some of which bear no apparent connection to your job) only serves to dilute your arguments. In fact it would appear that nobody even listens to your arguments anymore.
Are the French in Europe or not, or only when it suits them and if it is to their advantage?
flowman
I think you have a point, privatisation of NATS has been a complete disaster if the comments in these pages are anything to go by, but what is next weeks strike all about? Surely the single sky philosophy is just common sense. There is a fine line between striking for what you believe to be right, and striking to protect your own cosy arrangements at the expense of the rest of us.
Going on strike too often over many diverse issues ( some of which bear no apparent connection to your job) only serves to dilute your arguments. In fact it would appear that nobody even listens to your arguments anymore.
Are the French in Europe or not, or only when it suits them and if it is to their advantage?
flowman
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Bordeaux
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think you have a point, privatisation of NATS has been a complete disaster if the comments in these pages are anything to go by, but what is next weeks strike all about? Surely the single sky philosophy is just common sense.
But, if by "single sky philosophy", you mean all these FBA rubbish, then I'm afraid it's not common sense. On the contrary, it's something that scares the hell out of me.
And, to be more general than the FBAs, privatizing ATC is something that sounds too me as surreal as wanting to privatize the police, or nuclear energy... Oh, it's just been voted and is due 2007 ? May God protect us then...
There is a fine line between striking for what you believe to be right, and striking to protect your own cosy arrangements at the expense of the rest of us.
Going on strike too often over many diverse issues ( some of which bear no apparent connection to your job) only serves to dilute your arguments
Are the French in Europe or not, or only when it suits them and if it is to their advantage?
Time merchant
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Belgium
Posts: 352
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
XFL
Thanks for the explanations. It's good to hear your side of the story. (What are FBAs? All this jargon is overtaking me!)
It's perfectly true to say that the Brits and the Germans are choosy about what they opt into and out of. All members of the EU try to negotiate the best deals possible for themselves, but you won't see them taking their argument out on their neighbours. I don't see how blockading ports, grounding thousands of passengers and sticking the knife into an already ailing industry is going to win your union any support. From what you have said it is obvious that the French Government don't give a toss either- they seem prepared to do exactly the same just to score a point over the union.
So what will be achieved? I think the answer is clear from the comments made by our fellow Ppruners. Whilst there is support for your cause to maintain standards and your working conditions, the manner and frequency of your union's methods is creating much ill feeling (even hatred!).
Merci ne nous avoir tenu au courant.
Votre collegue "decredabilizer" a Bruxelles.
flowman
Thanks for the explanations. It's good to hear your side of the story. (What are FBAs? All this jargon is overtaking me!)
It's perfectly true to say that the Brits and the Germans are choosy about what they opt into and out of. All members of the EU try to negotiate the best deals possible for themselves, but you won't see them taking their argument out on their neighbours. I don't see how blockading ports, grounding thousands of passengers and sticking the knife into an already ailing industry is going to win your union any support. From what you have said it is obvious that the French Government don't give a toss either- they seem prepared to do exactly the same just to score a point over the union.
So what will be achieved? I think the answer is clear from the comments made by our fellow Ppruners. Whilst there is support for your cause to maintain standards and your working conditions, the manner and frequency of your union's methods is creating much ill feeling (even hatred!).
Merci ne nous avoir tenu au courant.
Votre collegue "decredabilizer" a Bruxelles.
flowman
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Bordeaux
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What are FBAs? All this jargon is overtaking me!
All members of the EU try to negotiate the best deals possible for themselves, but you won't see them taking their argument out on their neighbours
I don't see how blockading ports, grounding thousands of passengers and sticking the knife into an already ailing industry is going to win your union any support.
It's then an opportunity to stand up against something that we believe is fundamentaly wrong and dangerous. It might sound a bit dull and contrived (but I swear it is not) but we fight for a safe sky for tomorrow...
I do realise it's a luxury, that whereas we're fighting for principles, NATS controllers have to fight for half-decent work conditions and tools. But that's exactly the situation we want to avoid in a not-that-far future.
There's this french saying I like a lot : "quand les riches maigrissent, les pauvres meurent", which translates roughly into "when the rich lose weight, the poor die."
the manner and frequency of your union's methods is creating much ill feeling (even hatred!).
Next week's strike, which we were talking about, is actually the first strike we've decided since the late eighties (I was still in high school then...) !!!!!!! Less than one national strike a decade does not sound that frequent to me
I know that striking is sort of a national sport here (though I was in England in March 2002 and there were tons of strikes, but I have to agree we're the most proficient strikers on the block ) but as far as Air Traffic Control is concerned and in spite of all the prejudices one might have (I suppose I had the same before becoming one), we did not strike that often AT ALL.
Actually our union has (should I say "had"? Hope not...) a very strong negociation/cooperation/counter-proposal policy, which proved to be very successful until today. Let's wait&see...
Votre collegue "decredabilizer" a Bruxelles
Merci de votre attention.
Time merchant
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Belgium
Posts: 352
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
XFL
-------------------------------------------------
"Next week's strike, which we were talking about, is actually the first strike we've decided since the late eighties (I was still in high school then...) !!!!!!! Less than one national strike a decade does not sound that frequent to me"
-------------------------------------------------
Having just looked into the archive machine I can find French ATC strikes on 19/06/02, and 5-7/12/01. Anything before that has been binned.
You didn't notice a few quiet days if you were at work on those dates did you?
Counting this weeks strike, that averages out at roughly one day with industrial action every two and a half months.
That sounds fairly frequent to me.
flowman
-------------------------------------------------
"Next week's strike, which we were talking about, is actually the first strike we've decided since the late eighties (I was still in high school then...) !!!!!!! Less than one national strike a decade does not sound that frequent to me"
-------------------------------------------------
Having just looked into the archive machine I can find French ATC strikes on 19/06/02, and 5-7/12/01. Anything before that has been binned.
You didn't notice a few quiet days if you were at work on those dates did you?
Counting this weeks strike, that averages out at roughly one day with industrial action every two and a half months.
That sounds fairly frequent to me.
flowman
Pegase Driver
A bit of info :
Striking is a recognised fundamental right written in the French Republic Constitution. It is recognised a a major contributor to French politics by all political parties, including the conservative one now in power. In fact most strikes deliver something , so why not using that weapon if you were a (French ) syndicalist ?
OK, now that said , I am constantly amazed about the people in the industry that supports wholeheartly the Single Sky Initiative of the EU without having actually read it. Especially controllers. The FBA concept is not good for us my friends. I will not like to be employed by the company that will put the cheaper bill on the table. And that is exactly what FBA bidding will do....
Striking is a recognised fundamental right written in the French Republic Constitution. It is recognised a a major contributor to French politics by all political parties, including the conservative one now in power. In fact most strikes deliver something , so why not using that weapon if you were a (French ) syndicalist ?
OK, now that said , I am constantly amazed about the people in the industry that supports wholeheartly the Single Sky Initiative of the EU without having actually read it. Especially controllers. The FBA concept is not good for us my friends. I will not like to be employed by the company that will put the cheaper bill on the table. And that is exactly what FBA bidding will do....