Skyguide Jobs
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Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Australia
Skyguide Jobs
Anybody got any info on the ATC jobs with SKyguide? What's the interview process like? How good does my French have to be? Any info on what the Swiss are like to work for and general info on cost of living would be appreciated. My interview is in first week of Feb.
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: In the CIR
You must have made a really good impression for these guys to pay your flight over for the interview.
If youre destined for GVA, then I would brush up on my french. Even though they say that english will be language spoken in the center, dont bet on it. I cant imagine seeing the frenchies chatting away in english just because you are in the room.
Cost of living is high !! But, all in all skyguide is one of the better companies I have worked for.
Are you planned for GVA or ZRH?
Good luck anyway. See ya in Feb.
If youre destined for GVA, then I would brush up on my french. Even though they say that english will be language spoken in the center, dont bet on it. I cant imagine seeing the frenchies chatting away in english just because you are in the room.
Cost of living is high !! But, all in all skyguide is one of the better companies I have worked for.
Are you planned for GVA or ZRH?
Good luck anyway. See ya in Feb.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Australia
GVA - didn't apply for ZRH. How many expats currently working - do you know? I've only heard of a couple of Kiwis and I guess you're one of the South Africans? Be nice to know that I'm not the only native English speaker in the room! Back to the French classes for the next couple of months I guess.
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: In the CIR
I know of one Kiwi in GVA and of another who didnt make it.
You'll have to brush up on french as I had to really battle my way around GVA in english when I was there on an instructors course.
Otherwise we're a large group of Danes and another group of Swedes and Germans. Very international team in ZRH.
Only 2 South Africans....but hoping for more!
Dont know much about GVA though.
Cheers
You'll have to brush up on french as I had to really battle my way around GVA in english when I was there on an instructors course.
Otherwise we're a large group of Danes and another group of Swedes and Germans. Very international team in ZRH.
Only 2 South Africans....but hoping for more!
Dont know much about GVA though.
Cheers
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Geneva
some info
I work in Geneva, the cost of living is crazy... you will spend almost half your salary in rent and health insurance. As of now, expats in Geneva, most are Canadian, 1 Hungarian and 1 Yugoslavian. The kiwi is leaving end of feb, myself and another Canadian are leaving end of feb.
They are saying that french is not a requirement, even if this becomes true, you don't want to live in this city if you don't speak the language. And as someone wrote on the post, people in the ACC are not likely to speak english just because there are non-french speakers there... food for thought... my question, why do you want to work in Geneva?
They are saying that french is not a requirement, even if this becomes true, you don't want to live in this city if you don't speak the language. And as someone wrote on the post, people in the ACC are not likely to speak english just because there are non-french speakers there... food for thought... my question, why do you want to work in Geneva?
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Australia
Imnomaverick - wouldn't want word to get out at this early stage - let's leave it at "Australia".
EuroATC - the Kiwi wouldn't be Susan would it? Thought she finally checked out???? As to why - reckon it'll be better than staying here in Oz.
EuroATC - the Kiwi wouldn't be Susan would it? Thought she finally checked out???? As to why - reckon it'll be better than staying here in Oz.
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Geneva
in reply
Susan (Sue) could not qualify.. she is working in an office now.. the other Kiwi has been here 10 years and he's leaving...
Just some food for thought... the grass is not always greener.
I left Canada because I wanted to see something different and experience Europe. Don't come here if you think things will be so much better because they are not. There is bull!!!! everywhere you go.
People that have come to work here have had 3 problems. Language, experience and age. No expat over 40 has qualified in Geneva, expats who had limited knowledge of french could not check out and those who came from slow sectors or centres could not qualify. There is alot of traffic here, coordination inside the room is in french and things move very fast.
Yes the money is good, but don't come for the paycheck, as I said, you will spend half of your net pay on rent and insurances. Right now in Geneva, a 2 bedroom apt will cost you over 2500 swiss francs per month. I pay 3200 for a 3 bedroom. Another thing you might want to consider is that is rains almost 6 months a year
Message me if you have any questions, I have been here 2 years and can give you any information you need. Don't get me wrong, the people I work with here are great.. a really fun group. But it's expensive and the weather is terrible lol
Just some food for thought... the grass is not always greener.
I left Canada because I wanted to see something different and experience Europe. Don't come here if you think things will be so much better because they are not. There is bull!!!! everywhere you go.
People that have come to work here have had 3 problems. Language, experience and age. No expat over 40 has qualified in Geneva, expats who had limited knowledge of french could not check out and those who came from slow sectors or centres could not qualify. There is alot of traffic here, coordination inside the room is in french and things move very fast.
Yes the money is good, but don't come for the paycheck, as I said, you will spend half of your net pay on rent and insurances. Right now in Geneva, a 2 bedroom apt will cost you over 2500 swiss francs per month. I pay 3200 for a 3 bedroom. Another thing you might want to consider is that is rains almost 6 months a year
Message me if you have any questions, I have been here 2 years and can give you any information you need. Don't get me wrong, the people I work with here are great.. a really fun group. But it's expensive and the weather is terrible lol
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Australia
EuroATC.....
These are for jobs in the new UAC centre aren't they?
Would I be wrong in my understanding that coord etc is done in English in the Upper airspace? Like that in Maastricht?
Why would they even hint at giving Ozzies a go if they know we don't handle high volumes of traffic, speak little or no French and have seen people of our make-up fail? Are they that desperate?
I too have been offered what looks like a job interview in Geneva, but I will not waste my time or theirs if it is just a waiting to fail.
I would like to know more if you have the time to write.
Imnomaverick..... sound interesting huh???
TrafficTraffic...... you must think you the only lucky dude to be flown (to Luxie) for an Interview!!!!!
These are for jobs in the new UAC centre aren't they?
Would I be wrong in my understanding that coord etc is done in English in the Upper airspace? Like that in Maastricht?
Why would they even hint at giving Ozzies a go if they know we don't handle high volumes of traffic, speak little or no French and have seen people of our make-up fail? Are they that desperate?
I too have been offered what looks like a job interview in Geneva, but I will not waste my time or theirs if it is just a waiting to fail.
I would like to know more if you have the time to write.
Imnomaverick..... sound interesting huh???
TrafficTraffic...... you must think you the only lucky dude to be flown (to Luxie) for an Interview!!!!!
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Europe
......Don't forget EuroATC that there are 2 Brits here as well.
For anyone considering the move, if you are used to European prices, especially those from the UK, you won't find anything more expensive here. Everywhere has its good points and bad points.
Let us know what dates you have the interviews and we can arrange a couple of beers in town to let you know the pros and cons.
I was thinking of leaving next year, but have become an addict of the chocolate, secretive banking laws, and the cheese fondue (not!).........
PS 60% of coordination at the moment is done in French, the rest in English, or if you speak it Italian and Swiss German. However this may change with the introduction of some Zurich sectors soon.......?
For anyone considering the move, if you are used to European prices, especially those from the UK, you won't find anything more expensive here. Everywhere has its good points and bad points.
Let us know what dates you have the interviews and we can arrange a couple of beers in town to let you know the pros and cons.
I was thinking of leaving next year, but have become an addict of the chocolate, secretive banking laws, and the cheese fondue (not!).........
PS 60% of coordination at the moment is done in French, the rest in English, or if you speak it Italian and Swiss German. However this may change with the introduction of some Zurich sectors soon.......?
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: As Cold as Antarctica
ATC Groove,
Don't get disheartened yet mate. Go over and have a look for yourself, it can't hurt and your not paying for it.
You'll find that there are a couple of ATC organisations that will pay to fly you over for an interview
Additionally, I went through a conversion course with an individual from Geneva ACC, and that person struggled with the traffic just as much as I did, and this centre is busier than Geneva. Its horses for courses, don't put yourself down. Given the right training and time you'll have no problems..I've seen you work and if I can get a rating in a busy european centre, anyone can...but I would start learning your French now, don't wait until the last minute.
Don't get disheartened yet mate. Go over and have a look for yourself, it can't hurt and your not paying for it.
You'll find that there are a couple of ATC organisations that will pay to fly you over for an interview
Additionally, I went through a conversion course with an individual from Geneva ACC, and that person struggled with the traffic just as much as I did, and this centre is busier than Geneva. Its horses for courses, don't put yourself down. Given the right training and time you'll have no problems..I've seen you work and if I can get a rating in a busy european centre, anyone can...but I would start learning your French now, don't wait until the last minute.
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: The frequency jungle
Skyguide is desperate for ATCs to be able to open the UAC in time. Hardly anybody from Zurich is willing to move across. Now they have to get poeple elswhere. You'll find that the contract is good and so are the benifits. If it just wasnt for GVA !!!
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 137
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From: Geneva
more info
Don't look now.. I don't count you 2 brits since I know how much you guys like it in GVA LOL Besides.. can't call the scotsman a brit can ww ?
100% of coordination within the ACC is done in french right now.. and "don't look now" is right when 60% of coordination with others centres done in english.
Although the UAC is english only on the frequency we still coordinate in french with PARIS, MARSEILLE and REIMS. I personally don't see this changing anytime soon.
Having said this, the company is trying to recruit about a dozen more and since last week this number might increase seeing that 3 of us are leaving. They are not getting any applicants who have french as a second language. Soooo what they want to do is make the operation 100% english. Eventually this will have to happen but even if it does. People will still talk to each other in french in the lunch room, hallways and even between each other at the sector. Believe me, it's not fun when you can't understand what's going on around you.. ie' the swiss germans in the ACC. that talk amongst them.
You ask why would they recruit people with almost no english, no high density control experience...? Well to be honest I don't know. The best luck Skyguide has had so far is with Canadians since some of us speak french and work in semi busy units. I am not saying it's impossible but for example.. I went to school in french, my first language was french but was raised in the english part of Canada. I had never worked ATC in french before arriving here... let me just say this.. it's not easy at first..
I am in no way discouraging people from coming here, just keep in mind it's not going to be a cake walk. I disagree with one of the earlier posts. Sorry, not everyone can qualify here and that's been proven. People with lots of experience have failed.
I certainly do not regret coming here, I've had a great time and made some good friends..(even with a brit?? ) LOL But just know what you're getting yourself into...
LOL Besides.. can't call the scotsman a brit can ww ? 100% of coordination within the ACC is done in french right now.. and "don't look now" is right when 60% of coordination with others centres done in english.
Although the UAC is english only on the frequency we still coordinate in french with PARIS, MARSEILLE and REIMS. I personally don't see this changing anytime soon.
Having said this, the company is trying to recruit about a dozen more and since last week this number might increase seeing that 3 of us are leaving. They are not getting any applicants who have french as a second language. Soooo what they want to do is make the operation 100% english. Eventually this will have to happen but even if it does. People will still talk to each other in french in the lunch room, hallways and even between each other at the sector. Believe me, it's not fun when you can't understand what's going on around you.. ie' the swiss germans in the ACC. that talk amongst them.
You ask why would they recruit people with almost no english, no high density control experience...? Well to be honest I don't know. The best luck Skyguide has had so far is with Canadians since some of us speak french and work in semi busy units. I am not saying it's impossible but for example.. I went to school in french, my first language was french but was raised in the english part of Canada. I had never worked ATC in french before arriving here... let me just say this.. it's not easy at first..
I am in no way discouraging people from coming here, just keep in mind it's not going to be a cake walk. I disagree with one of the earlier posts. Sorry, not everyone can qualify here and that's been proven. People with lots of experience have failed.
I certainly do not regret coming here, I've had a great time and made some good friends..(even with a brit?? ) LOL But just know what you're getting yourself into...
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 312
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From: Sandpit
DLN Hah- finally figured out your "handle"!! (and you need to try MY cheese fondue!!!)
imnomaverick & The ATC Groove as DLN says, good and bad points to working in geneva, as anywhere else. I certainly wouldn't recommend coming here without doing some serious work on your French. Even after 18 months of fairly frequent lessons before coming here, I still struggled a bit at first (and still get caught out often enough). Work is generally interesting and can get very complicated, what with CBs, mountains and winemakers firing off rockets everywhere to save their crop! On the plus side, food is fabulous, great skiing is just up the road and there are even a few places that sell Guinness. Depends what you're looking for.
EuroATC - sorry but you need to check your facts. At least 2 Canadian expats over 40 have checked out on approach and INI in the last couple of years - come to think of it, I can't think of any other expats over 40 who have come here! You also seem to have forgotten the Brits, French, Italians, Australians.......
Oh yeah, you can call me a Brit if you like, just don't call me an Englishman!!!!
Come and have a look (and a beer) - if it doesn't suit you, at least you get the duty free!!
imnomaverick & The ATC Groove as DLN says, good and bad points to working in geneva, as anywhere else. I certainly wouldn't recommend coming here without doing some serious work on your French. Even after 18 months of fairly frequent lessons before coming here, I still struggled a bit at first (and still get caught out often enough). Work is generally interesting and can get very complicated, what with CBs, mountains and winemakers firing off rockets everywhere to save their crop! On the plus side, food is fabulous, great skiing is just up the road and there are even a few places that sell Guinness. Depends what you're looking for.
EuroATC - sorry but you need to check your facts. At least 2 Canadian expats over 40 have checked out on approach and INI in the last couple of years - come to think of it, I can't think of any other expats over 40 who have come here! You also seem to have forgotten the Brits, French, Italians, Australians.......
Oh yeah, you can call me a Brit if you like, just don't call me an Englishman!!!!Come and have a look (and a beer) - if it doesn't suit you, at least you get the duty free!!
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 137
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From: Geneva
hah
First the Australian is Canadian... You are right, there is 1 french guy checked out and 2 italians. No one over 40 checked out in the UAC. The point I was trying to make is that age works against you when there is so much crap to learn.. you should know I just finished teaching you a course If you want the names come see me. Yes 2 guys checked out in the approach over 40 but Skyguide wants people for the UAC and this is what I am talking about. Since you're online, you get the news here Stu, we're gone Feb 28th, the letter goes in tomorrow
I just finished teaching you a course If you want the names come see me. Yes 2 guys checked out in the approach over 40 but Skyguide wants people for the UAC and this is what I am talking about. Since you're online, you get the news here Stu, we're gone Feb 28th, the letter goes in tomorrow
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 34
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From: As Cold as Antarctica
Euro ATC,
People will still talk to each other in french in the lunch room, hallways and even between each other at the sector. Believe me, it's not fun when you can't understand what's going on around you.. ie' the swiss germans in the ACC. that talk amongst them.
Welcome to a multinational organisation, you should see our lunchroom conversations...German,Dutch,Spanish,English,Swedish,Bulgari an,Hungarian,French ...just to name a few. The over riding factor that everyone can communicate in English. Don't think that communication is limited to the lunchroom either, it will still happen in the ops room as well, it's just human nature to speak in your mother tongue, but if you need to get your point across you still can, using English.
People will still talk to each other in french in the lunch room, hallways and even between each other at the sector. Believe me, it's not fun when you can't understand what's going on around you.. ie' the swiss germans in the ACC. that talk amongst them.
Welcome to a multinational organisation, you should see our lunchroom conversations...German,Dutch,Spanish,English,Swedish,Bulgari an,Hungarian,French ...just to name a few. The over riding factor that everyone can communicate in English. Don't think that communication is limited to the lunchroom either, it will still happen in the ops room as well, it's just human nature to speak in your mother tongue, but if you need to get your point across you still can, using English.
Pardoned PPRuNer
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 388
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From: GlassGumtree
The ATC Groove...
I have a friend.....
(yes hard to believe - there's actually more than one but I dont want to boast!)
who works in the centre at LSGG and several other people have offered their friends if you want any help/info/advice, let me know.
...oh yeah...its the flying J class that I cant get used to..
(yes hard to believe - there's actually more than one but I dont want to boast!)
who works in the centre at LSGG and several other people have offered their friends if you want any help/info/advice, let me know.
...oh yeah...its the flying J class that I cant get used to..
Last edited by TrafficTraffic; 28th November 2002 at 15:52.