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BRISTOL JOBSWORTHS

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BRISTOL JOBSWORTHS

Old 24th Jan 2021, 05:49
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BRISTOL JOBSWORTHS

I am a 30 years serving military Pilot.

I am out and about in the UK most days. In 30 years I have had nothing but professional help and service from all ATC units up and down the country. Thank you guys/gals, my job is difficult and there's nothing like the reasssuring voice of somebody at the other end of the airwaves when you need it, especially on a dark horrible night. Thankyou for 30 years of dealing with me.

I was shocked recently to get the brush-off from Bristol on a poor weather day when i was transiting down the channel and could have done with a quick climb and transit to the east. I put it down to 'one of those days'.*

But I hear from my colleagues that my experience is now standard and Bristol are behaving like proper jobsworths. Not interested in anything outside of controlled airspace. All you get is "remain clear of controlled airspace and **** OFF"

I find this attitude appalling, especially when there's nobody else out there.

whats going on?? Why behave in such a shoddy manner?

*Im not stupid, he was waiting for me to bell-up. He just couldn't wait to be a obstructionist c##t. I was the only f##ker airborne in southern lockdown UK. What a ****.
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Old 24th Jan 2021, 08:17
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Wow. Arrogant much
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Old 24th Jan 2021, 08:45
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Marly Lite
Why do you not consult NATS, the ANSP at Bristol? You might just find that they have a policy of only providing service within CAS. Your thoroughly offensive remarks do not impress.
2 s
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Old 24th Jan 2021, 08:48
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It could be they are, as a unit, trying to not provide services outside CAS due to workload, staff shortages, or something. Were you requesting a transit or just a service outside? Regardless, there's no excuse for being rude
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Old 24th Jan 2021, 09:27
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Donít be harsh

Obviously the blanked words were Ďcartí and Ďfokker.

You would have to be a right pompous C*** and utter t**t to post otherwise.
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Old 24th Jan 2021, 09:33
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Looking at your previous posts, you seem a contented chap/chapess

Originally Posted by Marly Lite View Post
Anybody out there done this lately? I'm over 4 years into PAS (pilot) and I have had enough. Do I wait for the 5 year PAS point until I PVR, or do I press the button now, and let the 12 month PVR period take me over the 5 years qualifying period for PAS pension credits?
Maybe this is no longer the job for you.

I assume that you havenít become a civilian pilot because you are considered risky. You may want to read this..... the first line of para 1 could be of interest to you and your colleagues. (Kinda hope that you donít have to manage a crew)

CAA Guidance on Pilot Care


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Old 24th Jan 2021, 09:35
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Originally Posted by Marly Lite View Post
I am a 30 years serving military Pilot.

I am out and about in the UK most days. In 30 years I have had nothing but professional help and service from all ATC units up and down the country. Thank you guys/gals, my job is difficult and there's nothing like the reasssuring voice of somebody at the other end of the airwaves when you need it, especially on a dark horrible night. Thankyou for 30 years of dealing with me.

I was shocked recently to get the brush-off from Bristol on a poor weather day when i was transiting down the channel and could have done with a quick climb and transit to the east. I put it down to 'one of those days'.*

But I hear from my colleagues that my experience is now standard and Bristol are behaving like proper jobsworths. Not interested in anything outside of controlled airspace. All you get is "remain clear of controlled airspace and **** OFF"

I find this attitude appalling, especially when there's nobody else out there.

whats going on?? Why behave in such a shoddy manner?

*Im not stupid, he was waiting for me to bell-up. He just couldn't wait to be a obstructionist c##t. I was the only f##ker airborne in southern lockdown UK. What a ****.
The initial part of your post was reasonably valid if a little terse. To add that last line utterly wipes out any credibility and guarantees that this thread becomes a discussion about you rather than your "point".

Move along - nothing to see here.
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Old 24th Jan 2021, 10:15
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But the OP does shine a light on a problem that we have in the UK; the availability of surveillance based FIS in class G.
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Old 24th Jan 2021, 10:30
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Marly,

wowzers buddy! No need for such strong language.

Iím a military pilot too. Did you phone ATC after landing? Any time Iíve ever had an issue with ATC, thatís what Iíve done, albeit Iíve rarely had an issue. Every time weíve had a friendly chat, and there's always been more to the situation than meets the eye.

Just purely out of interest, outside of controlled airspace, was there a problem speaking to Cardiff, as Cardiff is the LARS provider for that area?

Also, a thank you from me to all the controllers out there too.
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Old 24th Jan 2021, 10:57
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Originally Posted by Marly Lite View Post
I am a 30 years serving military Pilot.

I am out and about in the UK most days. In 30 years I have had nothing but professional help and service from all ATC units up and down the country. Thank you guys/gals, my job is difficult and there's nothing like the reasssuring voice of somebody at the other end of the airwaves when you need it, especially on a dark horrible night. Thankyou for 30 years of dealing with me.
What time on a 'dark and horrible night'?
NOTAM C0526 says airport (and presumably ATC) closed 2359 to 0600 from 15 until 25 Jan at 0559.
Or maybe their primary radar was 'off' for some reason; most airfields can only operate 'SSR only' to clear arrivals ie no transits then that's it.
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Old 24th Jan 2021, 10:59
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Originally Posted by 2 sheds View Post
Marly Lite
Why do you not consult NATS, the ANSP at Bristol? You might just find that they have a policy of only providing service within CAS. Your thoroughly offensive remarks do not impress.
2 s
Quite possible since they stopped providing LARS.
OK I've been retired for a number of years now and I know some units tend to 'jump' on controllers who 'bend' the rules on safety grounds but a bloke calling up for radar service in sh1tty weather outside my 'official' area of responsibility would never stop me invoking a certain sentence in MATS Part 1 and helping if I could.
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Old 24th Jan 2021, 11:30
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I tend to agree with Marly Lite. Bristol ATC can be difficult. Most "based" pilots are aware of those who are less than helpful and the service varies depending who is on duty. However ATC provide a champagne service in comparison to the yokels who provide ground security. I will quite happily never operate out of Bristol again. Provincial.
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Old 24th Jan 2021, 11:57
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Originally Posted by Douglas Bahada View Post
I tend to agree with Marly Lite. Bristol ATC can be difficult. Most "based" pilots are aware of those who are less than helpful and the service varies depending who is on duty. However ATC provide a champagne service in comparison to the yokels who provide ground security. I will quite happily never operate out of Bristol again. Provincial.
I'd tend to agree with him as well that the NATS service from Bristol is not what I'd like it to be. I understand that their priority is to those within their CAS but working more effectively with those outside but near to it would be of benefit to all.

But to close his post with that expletive laden rant is simply unhelpful and smacks of someone who is far to fond of their own voice and entirely uninterested in any perspective other than their own.
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Old 24th Jan 2021, 13:05
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Jobsworth: someone who is unlikely to step past some petty rule because “it’s more than my job’s worth”.

In these times it’s hardly surprising that someone in an industry haemorrhaging money wants to keep their job more than they want to provide a service (presumably) outside of the rules. Get the rule changed rather than attacking the player.
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Old 24th Jan 2021, 13:38
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Originally Posted by Dan Dare View Post
Jobsworth: someone who is unlikely to step past some petty rule because ďitís more than my jobís worthĒ.

In these times itís hardly surprising that someone in an industry haemorrhaging money wants to keep their job more than they want to provide a service (presumably) outside of the rules. Get the rule changed rather than attacking the player.
The 'rule change' is already permitted:-(and has been for over 50 years)
MATS Part 1 (CAP 493) Section 1 Chapter 1 para 1.2 second sentence beginning 'However nothing in this manual prevents controllers from using their own discretion and initiative .....'
My favourite bit; I used it many times when providing LARS and was never 'pulled' for doing it like controllers are nowadays.
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Old 24th Jan 2021, 13:56
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
The 'rule change' is already permitted:-(and has been for over 50 years)
MATS Part 1 (CAP 493) Section 1 Chapter 1 para 1.2 second sentence beginning 'However nothing in this manual prevents controllers from using their own discretion and initiative .....'
My favourite bit; I used it many times when providing LARS and was never 'pulled' for doing it like controllers are nowadays.
That quote is incomplete - "...in response to unusual circumstances, which may not be covered by the procedures herein." That favoured quote is not permission to break rules which are covered within Mats Part 1, or indeed Part 2 - I've seen people come very unstuck misunderstanding that.
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Old 24th Jan 2021, 16:11
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Originally Posted by alfaman View Post
That quote is incomplete - "...in response to unusual circumstances, which may not be covered by the procedures herein." That favoured quote is not permission to break rules which are covered within Mats Part 1, or indeed Part 2 - I've seen people come very unstuck misunderstanding that.
And 'unusual circumstances' doesn't include an aircraft being stuck at low level in [email protected] weather at night asking a radar unit for an IFR climb then?
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Old 24th Jan 2021, 17:24
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
And 'unusual circumstances' doesn't include an aircraft being stuck at low level in [email protected] weather at night asking a radar unit for an IFR climb then?
Not that unusual, no: & may well be covered in the Bristol Mats Pt 2 for all I know. I could ask any of the people I know who work there, but I wouldn't want to waste their time.
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Old 24th Jan 2021, 18:03
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Folks,

Firstly, let me apologise for being so err..., vociferous! (I really am turning into my old man!!)

secondly, thanks for your replies.

I guess what I am really saying is, how is it that the likes of, say, Leeds respond with: good evening C/S XX, here's your squawk here's your airspace crossing you asked for in exchange for a heading or level modification and have a nice night" (or I might help you if I am able...)

and Bristol....literally not even allowed to get a request in. (Don't ask, I'm not going to help).

Is this a shift in attitude; a shift in regulatory framework; or a shift in what is expected of the modern controller?

I could understand it if it was a London-based agency. Never had this before, always got a pleasant reply even if it was: sorry mate too busy today.

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Old 24th Jan 2021, 20:26
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Originally Posted by Marly Lite View Post
Folks,

Firstly, let me apologise for being so err..., vociferous! (I really am turning into my old man!!)

secondly, thanks for your replies.

I guess what I am really saying is, how is it that the likes of, say, Leeds respond with: good evening C/S XX, here's your squawk here's your airspace crossing you asked for in exchange for a heading or level modification and have a nice night" (or I might help you if I am able...)

and Bristol....literally not even allowed to get a request in. (Don't ask, I'm not going to help).

Is this a shift in attitude; a shift in regulatory framework; or a shift in what is expected of the modern controller?

I could understand it if it was a London-based agency. Never had this before, always got a pleasant reply even if it was: sorry mate too busy today.
comes to us all in time. I can't add much detail, but with Leeds & Bristol, you're dealing with different ATC providers: how they operate, within the regulatory framework that everyone operates within, will be set by the airport. The difference could be as simple as the time of day - it might be the person manning the radio in the quiet periods is not licenced to provide the service you're after: that might be because the airport isn't expecting any of their own traffic. My understanding is that Bristol, in particular, has changed it's hours of operation in light of the current situation. It may also be that the unit that seems the most appropriate to the area you're in, may not be the one delegated to deal with traffic in that area. For instance, Farnborough deals with most of the class G traffic in the Luton/Stansted area, not necessarily Luton, Stansted or Essex - so not intuitively who you'd think. Best advice is to give Bristol a ring, normal office hours, then you're more likely to get someone who can help.
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