BRISTOL JOBSWORTHS
Join Date: Dec 2007
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"ROCAS" shouldn't be required. I agree.
However there are the minority of pilots that spoil it for everyone else.
I recall a few years back an aircraft was freecalled across to us from an adjacent unit. ATCO was busy at the time and eventually invited the pilot to pass their message around 90 seconds after they first called. The pilot passed their routing, straight through the CTA VOR DCT VOR, didn't request CAS transit. When the assigned squawk was displayed, low and behold the aircraft is 3nms inside CAS without a clearance.
When this was pointed out to the pilot, the reply was, "well I'm IFR, I've filed a flight plan and I called whilst outside CAS".
So I think you will have to forgive those of us that make use of the term "remain outside CAS". I don't use it routinely, but if a pilot requests zone transit I will use the term until I've established the requested routing and identified the aircraft.
However there are the minority of pilots that spoil it for everyone else.
I recall a few years back an aircraft was freecalled across to us from an adjacent unit. ATCO was busy at the time and eventually invited the pilot to pass their message around 90 seconds after they first called. The pilot passed their routing, straight through the CTA VOR DCT VOR, didn't request CAS transit. When the assigned squawk was displayed, low and behold the aircraft is 3nms inside CAS without a clearance.
When this was pointed out to the pilot, the reply was, "well I'm IFR, I've filed a flight plan and I called whilst outside CAS".
So I think you will have to forgive those of us that make use of the term "remain outside CAS". I don't use it routinely, but if a pilot requests zone transit I will use the term until I've established the requested routing and identified the aircraft.
So I think you will have to forgive those of us that make use of the term "remain outside CAS". I don't use it routinely, but if a pilot requests zone transit I will use the term until I've established the requested routing and identified the aircraft.
2 s
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there are times when ROCAS is very useful, and times when it's not needed..it's not as simple as either being needed all the time or none of the time
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I work with people that still can't enter the details of a freecaller straight into EFPS.. always have to grab a pen and a piece of paper, write it all down and then enter it on EFPS at the next available opportunity... 10+ years after we got rid of paper strips.
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Maybe NATS should have insisted that all that EFPS displays had a scribble function. At PC it was a lifesaver for free calls ( at least it was six years ago before I retired ) I always thought that this was a basic function which all ATCO’s needed. Progress?
Rgds
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I'm a GA pilot. NATS implemented an optional online systen that covered at least Luton & Stansted whereby one could pre-notify an intention to route into the Class D airspace either for transit or to a destination inside the zone. It was great. You called, the controller replied that he/she had your details and thereafter the amount of RT traffic was minimal. Regrettably my understanding is that is has been discontinued. Would wider use of such a system help manage itinerant traffic?
Interesting video about Edinburgh ATC in the link below. Starting at about 4:40 it shows how they integrate VFRs using their EFPS displays and the advantage of a pre-note to both ATC and GA pilots.
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Funnily enough Spekesoftly I tried putting that up about an hour ago ( great minds think alike ) and it just disappeared. The video is very well done. The info about the electronic strips starts around 2:00 mins. Edinburgh is no longer operated by NATS 🙁 However it is the equipment that NATS installed. I would imagine Bristol Ops is similar ( I have no idea! )
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jmmoric that’s understood. I was just trying to clarify that although Edinburgh and Bristol are different ANSP’s they are probably using the same basic equipment as the new ANSP at Edinburgh “inherited” the equipment NATS installed. I am certainly not trying to start an ANSP war!😎
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Join Date: Dec 1999
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I stand to be corrected, but the Bristol electronic strip system is what's called 'Hub and Spoke', and bears more similarities to TC EXCDS than to the EFPS systems used in Edinburgh (and Stansted, Heathrow etc.)
Having worked only in area radar,we used to get very few 'free-callers',but it still happened occasionally,and I always kept a blank strip handy for such events.Of course at Eastern Radar,we would just write on the screen in chinagraph.Never had to use EFPS,thank god.
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Are Bristol combining the tower and radar functions at times. Farnborough have been doing. Might account for a reduced service, but if the frequency is quiet, ask in a polite manner why your request is being denied?
Happened after I retired; in my day the use of 'surveillance equipment' to provide APS by the tower controller was strictly verboten.
Continous descent trials
Heathrow mid 70s..followed a T3 in on westerlies. co pilot whinged that the distance to go informed by the approach controller was some minor distance out compared with his doppler driven distance counter..thought idiot as obviously had never visited the tower to see how the guys and girls worked. A month or so later he was found hanging in his garage.
Heathrow mid 70s..followed a T3 in on westerlies. co pilot whinged that the distance to go informed by the approach controller was some minor distance out compared with his doppler driven distance counter..thought idiot as obviously had never visited the tower to see how the guys and girls worked. A month or so later he was found hanging in his garage.