Spanish ATC

[Nightstop]

Trumped

That's a picture of Trump's Mar-a-lago Club, Palm Beach FL....rather a long drive from MAD in your Ferrari , don't you think ?

['I' in the sky]

Studi said "In Spain, it was on average >300k € a year, ...."

ATC watcher said "Stop taking your information from Spanish media and start thinking a bit. "

I haven't seen anyone provide us with their alternative figures to these "lies". They rant on about training costs, one posted me a link to an earlier posting which also didn't appear to contain any more "honest" information about the real salaries so until they do I think the figure of an "average" 300k euros per year has to be seen as a fair one to use.

[ATC Watcher]

ATC watcher said "Stop taking your information from Spanish media and start thinking a bit. "

If you want to quote an answer from me, do not alter the question.

The Statement Studi made was :

If one choose to work max hours, I guess reaching 1800h, he would earn in the region of close to 1Mio €!
Noone has ever disputed these figures

I did and I stand to my reply.

As to the 300K Gross, yes some did made it in a few ACCs with a lot of overtime, but average salary ? Think a bit : 2000 controllers in Spain how many controllers in ACC and in Airports, how many small airports , etc.. . Not everybody works in the large ACCs and not everybody did maximum overtime in there . But the figure stuck. The media loves it.

[paidworker]

Open Letter to AENA/ Jose Blanco from a controller published on the 13/12/2010 in ABC a leading broadsheet style newspaper along the lines of the times. I dont have time to translate it all now so you can make some allowances for google gettting the words wrong ( e.g what is translated as track can in fact be " runway " in the case of talking about operating out of limits with snow contamination ). " Driver " is actually controller.

Edited to add: I posted it as soon as I found it , it is quite a long document , not suited to people who are more accustomed to cartoons and parrot fashion repeating a syndicated news story with catchy headlines. I would even say its heavy going at times but there are some very interesting assertions in it:

Such as management( non qualified controllers ) wages are actually higher but are being lumped into the pot when calculating atcos wages.

Serious breaches of eurocontrol / ICAO accepted guidelines for things like runway contamination where non qualified people are " managing the controllers " as a result of the decree. Controllers not being allowed close airports in the north even though the airport operator cant clear snow of the runway ( 15cm ).

Dramatic increase in what are described as category " A " near misses since new operating regime in the royal decree of Feb of this year.

Been delayed going into Barajas this year ? Perhaps its because some helicopter hat is trying to cut costs by running radar maintenance during the day even if the controllers are pointing out its peak time..generally speaking operational and safety decisions were being taken by people who are not ATCOS in a lot of routine and non routine matter.

AENA pump billions into regional airports that nobody will buy of AENA and insist on manning them even if the average is 18 pax a day. ( we have a super long concrete runway in our "gliding" club ). There are tons of these airports in the middle of nowhere ( even Ryanair wont fly there with no airport charge ) and AENA insist on keeping them open with a team of controllers. Yet AENA gets to " pump " the mass media and say look at these lazy fools.. I landed in Cordoba recently and thought to myself seems a bit much to have full service here..AENA has in the last years racked up debt with these projects alone of 13,142 million euros. Then of course theres the cost of the military post too.. So you have to ask yourself if thats " management " are they really " victims "?

AENAs HR department has cut recruitment for the last 6 years despite part of the original agreement saying they would hire. The notion that controllers controlled the intake is made a mockery off. (AENA needed the money instead to reward Jose Blancos ( Government minister ) wifes company contracts to build airports and buildings nobody needed. And if that was a control tower its cost of course is being hung around the kneck of the controller of course.

If there is serious interest in a "section" after the holiday I will try and translate it in detail. I can read / write / speak spanish and source documents for all arguments are there. Otherwise Google does a good job if you copy and paste individual sections in for translation. Good luck with it as I said its well referenced for people who want third party source documents but it means not being lazy

[misterblue]

Under Military Control yesterday??

Flying through Spanish airspace yesterday received the following reply to introductory calls-

'You are identified under military control'

What was that all about?

MB

[calcagafo]

Under Military Control yesterday??

misterblue

What was that all about?

Spain´s airspace is under military "supervision" since the fourth of December.
The ATCO´s are the same, but the military are there to make sure they do as they are told

Merry Christmas??

[TrafficTraffic]

le Pingoiun

"It is better not to post and let people think you dont know what you are talking about rather than to post and remove all doubt." -
-- Mark Twain (well I changed it a bit)

Lon Moore,

I thought that was your back yard at Hawkinge...

TT

[liftman]

Hi Guys,

Aena apparently is looking for controller abroad, rumours about a coming agreement with italy for "training and international programs" with controller detached to some spanish center, rumours of coming agreement with further nations soon.

Who knows something more? Any spanish controller could verify this?

[belk78]

Aena has been looking for atco´s across Europe and South America but nobody accepted so far. Our situation and working conditions right now are crap.
Where did you hear that?

[Famas]

Hi guys,
I'm an italian Atco and i want to confirm that my provider start a research of personnel for those destinations:Madrid ,Barcellona,Siviglia,Palma di Maiorca e Gran canarie.
I want to know any useful information to report to all my collegues that decide to apply for.
Do spanish controllers know anything about that?
Are you looking for someone to help you for your holiday,shift,days off....or it's only an attempt of Aena to definitely fire some spanish controllers?
Does spanish union know something about the agreement between the two providers?
Happy to receive any information.....
TY.

[spanishatco45]

Hi guys, I'm a Spanish atco and I'm going to tell you what's going on here. AENA, the Ministry of Fomento, the Ministry of the Interior, the Government and the political opposition (partido popular), have been trying to anihilate us for more than one year now. They've issued 5 decrees and 2 laws to change our working conditions because they don't want to negotiate a new agreement with us. They have an open war against us and they're desperately looking for atcos whereever. If any Italians want to come to Spain they should know this it is hell here, and it is an attempt to destroy the collective of spanish atcos. You'd better get in touch with any of our union representatives to get information. You don't know what you`re getting into. This is serious and you wouldn't be doing us any favours by accepting to come to Spain. This is union busting from Aena and the Government of Spain. Please get information from your trade union, they know about the hell that is going on here. I'll be pleased to provide you with any information you wish. [email protected]

[jlms]

No surprise Famas. They are going to have to replace many of us who are starting to look for jobs abroad

They do not intend stopping until history repeats itself and they copy the current Spanish pilot situation that started in the late '80's and has some Vueling pilots desperate for that right hand seat currently earning less than 1000€ a month...

Kind regards to everyone, including those that have been so harsh to us in the last year and still love to bash us.

[calcagafo]

Do spanish controllers know anything about that?

Nope.

Are you looking for someone to help you for your holiday,shift,days off..

Nope, although that would be nice

Does spanish union know something about the agreement between the two providers?

Not that I know

I want to know any useful information

I can only tell you about Barcelona
1670 hours per year, up to 200 hours a month, 5/3 days work/off ( 6/2 in the summer), 45 days vacation (maximum 15 days between June and September ), around 5000 euro net per month, and, oh yeah, everybody hates you.....

Any doubt, don't hesitate to ask

Regards

[spanishatco45]

[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']This attempt from aena to recruit atcos abroad is a union busting practice. They’ve been trying to annihilate the collective of Spanish atcos for more than one year now. Get info before taking any initiatives from our trade union USCA or from your own union, they know what’s going on in Spain about atc. You must know this is not paradise and they’re trying to have replacements in order to fire quite a few of us. The deadline of January 31 coincides with the one given by the Government for a “solution” they curiously “don’t want to find” about the agreement they “don’t want to sign” with the Spanish atcos. We didn’t know anything about them trying to find atcos abroad and this means they’re lying once more. If you want to come to Spain, think it more than twice. We’re at war. Greetings[/font]

[Plumaveloz]

Hello:
Some days ago, a new Royal Decree stated 13th no-aproach-control towers to be privatized.
This are the towers:
LEVX: Vigo
LECO: La Coruña
LECU: Madrid - Cuatro Vientos
LEAL: Alicante
LEVC: Valencia
LEIB: Ibiza
LEAM: Almería
LEZL: Sevilla
LELL: Sabadell
LEJR: Jerez
GCFV: Fuertenventura (Canary Islands)
GCRR: Lanzarote (Canary Islands)
GEML: Melilla

Regards,
A.

[SINGAPURCANAC]

it means that "expat newcomers" may expect those postings for twr ratings?

[LH2]

This attempt from aena to recruit atcos abroad is a union busting practice.

May they be successful.

The controller's union has done bugger all in all these years to improve airspace safety and training of controllers, or any other positive contribution to aviation whatso*******ever so the sooner one gets rid of them, the sooner everyone can start reaping the benefits.

Btw, you do not say, but I assume you are a union rep/leader--there's been a few of you here over the last few months so your pitch is nothing new really

[LH2]

Originally Posted by SINGAPURCANAC

it means that "expat newcomers" may expect those postings for twr ratings?

The provision of tower services will be open to competition and any qualifying EU company will be able to bid.

There might be issues with applying if they insist on level 4 Spanish or some such (which they will, given the political implications in such a Jacobin country). I'll try to keep an eye out for any developments and post here if anyone's interested.

[jlms]

The controller's union has done bugger all in all these years to improve the safety and training of controllers, or any other positive contribution to aviation whatso*******ever so the sooner one gets rid of them, the sooner everyone can start reaping the benefits.

You're right LH2. That's APROCTA's job.

BTW and just for the record, I would say most of us writing here have no responsibility in the union.

Have a nice weekend.

[aldegar]

First news about the italian agreement. Have no information about it, but it would be really nice if it involved some kind of exchange... italian ATCOs come to Spain and we are allowed to go and replace them in Italy!