Is NATS and ASTAC the only option to get into ATC?
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Is NATS and ASTAC the only option to get into ATC?
I know you've probably heard these same questions over and over but I've been going through the forums and it seems that NATS and ASTAC are the preferred choices to start a career in ATC. I have no previous knowledge background in aviation but i am eager to become an ATC. NATS selection process seems very limited, competitive, long and demanding. Is there any alternative routes I can take without having to go through the interview process? I wonder if taking courses in becoming a ATC assistant (first) would be easier and helpful in becoming a future ATC.
P.S. - Can you please tell me if there is any colleges in London that offer courses that lead to becoming a successful ATC?
P.S. - Can you please tell me if there is any colleges in London that offer courses that lead to becoming a successful ATC?
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The NATS selection process is pretty tough... but you've got to bear in mind that ATC is no normal career. NATS are looking for people with a very specific set of attributes that (in their experience) seem to be the most important for the job. I don't mean to be elitest or the like, but if you are worried you might not have what it takes for NATS then are you sure that this is the right career to be thinking about? I honestly don't mean to put you off (there are enough people on these forums who will quite happily do that without me adding to their number), but just want to encourage you to think this through properly before you start committing yourself to anything.
Obviously I can see what you are saying about NATS selection being quite limiting, but in other ways it is very open. I can't think of any other job where you will almost certainly end up earning in excess of 60-90k that is so easily accessible to people without any formal qualifications. Technically you can pass NATS selection with nothing but a couple of GCSE's. I'd say that was quite broad and not very limiting at all.
I'd also point out that the NATS selection isn't actually competitive. At each stage in the selection process there is a benchmark you are expected to meet, if you do so you will be invited along to the next stage, it has nothing to do with competition or the performance of any other candidate.
There are a few other routes into ATC, like self funding your own training at an indepedent college. As far as I know there are only two independent colleges training air traffic controllers in the UK, which are ASTAC (which you appear to know about) and Cwmbran (in Wales, run by BAE). Self funding is risky though, you are by no means gauranteed a job at the end of your training, and you'd probably be limited to aerodrome rather than area controlling (NATS are currently the only route into area control in the UK, and are likely to remain so for a very long time to come). Another option would be to look into becoming an ATC assistant and hoping that your employer might one day consider sponsoring you for full ATC training, but of course there are also no gaurantees here - assistant jobs are quite hard to come by and this is only likely to get worse as advances in technology reduce the requirement for the role, and with quite a number of fully trained ATCOs looking for work most aerodromes will likely look to fulfil their future ATCO requirements from this pool than to invest in training new ATCOs up at their own expense.
If you don't mind going abroad you could look into Eurocontrol, but their selection is very much like NATS.
Basically, NATS are the big fish in the UK, they run all the area control and most of the major aerodromes are contracted to them as well. The vast majority of UK ATCOs are currently employed by NATS, so if you are really interested in this job they are the main way to go. If you are worried about their selection process then just give it a go and see what happens, you might suprise yourself and you certainly aren't going to loose anything by having a crack at it.
Best of luck
Obviously I can see what you are saying about NATS selection being quite limiting, but in other ways it is very open. I can't think of any other job where you will almost certainly end up earning in excess of 60-90k that is so easily accessible to people without any formal qualifications. Technically you can pass NATS selection with nothing but a couple of GCSE's. I'd say that was quite broad and not very limiting at all.
I'd also point out that the NATS selection isn't actually competitive. At each stage in the selection process there is a benchmark you are expected to meet, if you do so you will be invited along to the next stage, it has nothing to do with competition or the performance of any other candidate.
There are a few other routes into ATC, like self funding your own training at an indepedent college. As far as I know there are only two independent colleges training air traffic controllers in the UK, which are ASTAC (which you appear to know about) and Cwmbran (in Wales, run by BAE). Self funding is risky though, you are by no means gauranteed a job at the end of your training, and you'd probably be limited to aerodrome rather than area controlling (NATS are currently the only route into area control in the UK, and are likely to remain so for a very long time to come). Another option would be to look into becoming an ATC assistant and hoping that your employer might one day consider sponsoring you for full ATC training, but of course there are also no gaurantees here - assistant jobs are quite hard to come by and this is only likely to get worse as advances in technology reduce the requirement for the role, and with quite a number of fully trained ATCOs looking for work most aerodromes will likely look to fulfil their future ATCO requirements from this pool than to invest in training new ATCOs up at their own expense.
If you don't mind going abroad you could look into Eurocontrol, but their selection is very much like NATS.
Basically, NATS are the big fish in the UK, they run all the area control and most of the major aerodromes are contracted to them as well. The vast majority of UK ATCOs are currently employed by NATS, so if you are really interested in this job they are the main way to go. If you are worried about their selection process then just give it a go and see what happens, you might suprise yourself and you certainly aren't going to loose anything by having a crack at it.
Best of luck
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Just to add, as SKOS has mentioned it, the RAF is another route but I'd think long and hard about this. From what I understand (having no personal experience of it) military control is a very different job to civilian ATC, you are an RAF officer first and an ATCO second. Becoming an RAF controller might land you a cosy job alongside the civilian controllers at Swanwick, but more likely it will see you touring all around the world on tours of active combat zones such as Afghanistan. If you are genuinely interested in it then pursue this route be all means, but all the advice I've heard about military controlling is that you should only go into it if you want to be a military controller not a civilian one. I should also point out that military and civilian ATC licences are not interchangable - if you did a few years in the military and then wanted to move to civilian control you'd have to start all over again from scratch, you can't use the military as a back door route into civilian ATC.
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NATS selection process seems very limited, competitive, long and demanding.
Oh, and getting in somewhere as an ATSA may work but it's hit and miss, I know many ATSAs who would make good ATCOs but have never been given the chance.
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I started as an Assistant with what was then the Ministry of Transport & Civil Aviation, because I didn't have the academics needed to start training as an civil ATCO. And the RAF took forever to answer letters, or get round to an interview. Back then it was 5 years as an AATC before you could be considered for "Class-toClass" promotion.
Then the RAF woke up, and after some 6 months working at Heathrow [in the old London Centre] I left civvy ATC and spent my life doing Mil ATC. That included a LOT of time in Area control at Eastern Radar [joint mil/civ] and LATCC [joint mil/civ] where I was in the old Joint Ops Room working alongside on the civil sectors. Front-line time as a controller? About 8 years Airfield and 8 years Area, I guess. Then about 8 years in Staff jobs and about 6 doing 'other things'.
Pat42 makes important points - in the RAF you're an officer first. My career eventually took me outside ATC on several occasions as I climbed the 'greasy pole' - and the change from just being an ATCO was very refreshing.
And my well-stamped RAF ATC licence would have been worthless in the civill world.
However, don't fret about Afghanistan - few RAF ATCOs are likely to go there.
What LIFE do you want to lead? Same place forever, doing basically the same job? Or go RAF and move to a new challenge every 2 1/2 years or so?
Then the RAF woke up, and after some 6 months working at Heathrow [in the old London Centre] I left civvy ATC and spent my life doing Mil ATC. That included a LOT of time in Area control at Eastern Radar [joint mil/civ] and LATCC [joint mil/civ] where I was in the old Joint Ops Room working alongside on the civil sectors. Front-line time as a controller? About 8 years Airfield and 8 years Area, I guess. Then about 8 years in Staff jobs and about 6 doing 'other things'.
Pat42 makes important points - in the RAF you're an officer first. My career eventually took me outside ATC on several occasions as I climbed the 'greasy pole' - and the change from just being an ATCO was very refreshing.
And my well-stamped RAF ATC licence would have been worthless in the civill world.
However, don't fret about Afghanistan - few RAF ATCOs are likely to go there.
What LIFE do you want to lead? Same place forever, doing basically the same job? Or go RAF and move to a new challenge every 2 1/2 years or so?
Last edited by TheTiresome1; 26th Jan 2010 at 18:12.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTiresome1
Afghanistan - few RAF ATCOs are likely to go there.
What are you basing that statement on?
Originally Posted by TheTiresome1
Afghanistan - few RAF ATCOs are likely to go there.
What are you basing that statement on?
Anyway, it will all be over in one to five years, so the Public is told by some politicians
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A small addendum to Yahoo!'s post... In the US, they sometimes call controllers "ATCs", but in the UK it's always ATCO in civilian life. What they call NCO controllers in the RAF, I don't know, but they are just as qualified as officers for membership of GATCO...
I agree with Pat42, Standard Noise and no doubt many others; this is a demanding job and also one in which communication skills are absolutely vital. if you find an interview scary you must ask yourself whether you're truly cut out for it.
Also, the ATCO jobs within NATS are "mobile grades" - you can be posted (in theory) at the whim of the company. Hence, the large numbers of Scots in Swanwick and English types in Aberdeen. The likelihood of being posted to EGLL or EGLC is slight, so why worry about getting college training on your doorstep? In my day, we were paid something like 35p a mile in expenses for a monthly trip home from CATC, and on my course the longest trip home was 504 miles each way.
Having said the above, if you're able to overcome your fear of interviews (and assuming it isn't on account of suffering a dreadful speech impediment...) and show a little confidence, apply to NATS and do your best. You might be pleasantly surprised!
I agree with Pat42, Standard Noise and no doubt many others; this is a demanding job and also one in which communication skills are absolutely vital. if you find an interview scary you must ask yourself whether you're truly cut out for it.
Also, the ATCO jobs within NATS are "mobile grades" - you can be posted (in theory) at the whim of the company. Hence, the large numbers of Scots in Swanwick and English types in Aberdeen. The likelihood of being posted to EGLL or EGLC is slight, so why worry about getting college training on your doorstep? In my day, we were paid something like 35p a mile in expenses for a monthly trip home from CATC, and on my course the longest trip home was 504 miles each way.
Having said the above, if you're able to overcome your fear of interviews (and assuming it isn't on account of suffering a dreadful speech impediment...) and show a little confidence, apply to NATS and do your best. You might be pleasantly surprised!
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Theoretical Fiver your way anotherthing 
Lon, think NATS only pays out to UK addresses, but we do also have a few Aussies and also a Kiwi - bout as far as we can get I think! Like to see how that could feasibly claim for a monthly trip home
Lon, think NATS only pays out to UK addresses, but we do also have a few Aussies and also a Kiwi - bout as far as we can get I think! Like to see how that could feasibly claim for a monthly trip home
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Greasy.... lots I would imagine - me for example!
<<What they call NCO controllers in the RAF, I don't know, but they are just as qualified as officers for membership of GATCO...>>
Donkey's years ago NCOs were not allowed to carry out GCAs, as I understood. Result: I once saw a pimply-faced Pilot Officer talking-down jet traffic whilst a WO with about 30 years experience was carrying out mundane tasks. Hopefully things have changed now..
<<What they call NCO controllers in the RAF, I don't know, but they are just as qualified as officers for membership of GATCO...>>
Donkey's years ago NCOs were not allowed to carry out GCAs, as I understood. Result: I once saw a pimply-faced Pilot Officer talking-down jet traffic whilst a WO with about 30 years experience was carrying out mundane tasks. Hopefully things have changed now..
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They have, Bren. NCO Contollers hold the same validations as their commissioned colleagues, with the exception of 'supervisor' which is normally reserved for WO and above. NCO controllers are also called ATCOs.
With regard to my previous question of TheTiresome1's comment that "few RAF ATCOs are likely to go [to Aghanistan]"; in my experience, RAF ATCO's seem to be on about a 2 year turnaround for operational deployments. Might not be Afghanistan every time, but more often than not will be. And as for the "all over in 5 years"; well, pass me a bucket of salt.
Anyway, I won't have to worry about it any more. I'm off to join the rail industry
. Nice knowing you all, byeeeeee.
With regard to my previous question of TheTiresome1's comment that "few RAF ATCOs are likely to go [to Aghanistan]"; in my experience, RAF ATCO's seem to be on about a 2 year turnaround for operational deployments. Might not be Afghanistan every time, but more often than not will be. And as for the "all over in 5 years"; well, pass me a bucket of salt
.Anyway, I won't have to worry about it any more. I'm off to join the rail industry
. Nice knowing you all, byeeeeee.
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An Oz and Kiwi? Assuming they are 100% oz and 100% kiwi, why are they allowedto join NATS, yet we can't apply to Airways/Airservices (Oz or NZ) without residency? 
I've pestered them so many times
Anyway, just thinking out loud...
I've pestered them so many timesAnyway, just thinking out loud...