South African ATC
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Allow me to contribute to the rumour mill:
I've just heard that a contingent of foreigners are headed for Johannesburg at a package of over 6 000 euros/month... This seems contrary to what was written in an email from head office about the salary packages and never being paid mroe than SA ATC's...
Could they have lied to us?
It doesn't look like they're going to be trained though... Let the games begin. Good luck guys and gals...
I've just heard that a contingent of foreigners are headed for Johannesburg at a package of over 6 000 euros/month... This seems contrary to what was written in an email from head office about the salary packages and never being paid mroe than SA ATC's...
Could they have lied to us?
It doesn't look like they're going to be trained though... Let the games begin. Good luck guys and gals...
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Where do I sign in
OK now,
If the package for the foreigners is 6000 Euros that is more than 60000ZAR per month and this is better than going to the desert.
This is even better than what famous Danish controllers use to get in the days when they were there.
Does the package cover accommodation and car as well?I will not accept anything less than a Peugeot.
My question is,where do I sign in to work for this money?
Just a joke,I would never do this to my friends in Joburg.
I think there are too many rumours going on about SA and ATNS.
One other question is,why woudn't some people train foreigners who come there to help,it is not their fault that they have signed a better contract with ATNS?!
Cheers all,
Gianni
If the package for the foreigners is 6000 Euros that is more than 60000ZAR per month and this is better than going to the desert.
This is even better than what famous Danish controllers use to get in the days when they were there.
Does the package cover accommodation and car as well?I will not accept anything less than a Peugeot.
My question is,where do I sign in to work for this money?
Just a joke,I would never do this to my friends in Joburg.
I think there are too many rumours going on about SA and ATNS.
One other question is,why woudn't some people train foreigners who come there to help,it is not their fault that they have signed a better contract with ATNS?!
Cheers all,
Gianni
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Just something to think about.
Abu Dhabi Night shift needs 4 to 5 controllers(Approach and Tower/Gmc) to complete a 9 hour night shift as they are pretty busy tilll about 3am.
The Area also have about 4 to 5 controllers just to make things work.
As I believe, most flight during the WC is planned during the night in SA as some stations already run close to maximum capacity during normal daytime operation.
Cape Town presently have 2 controllers (Approach and Tower/GMC) managing the night shift. To be able to handle a busy night shift, it should be increased to at least 4. This means an increase in staff of at least 20 Tower and Approach rated ATC's minimum.
To train any Tower or Appraoch ATC they need at least 100 hours(Already qualified staff at any other local or overseas station with experience).
At present two new Approach and two new Tower controllers can be trained and be qualified simultaniously only after 3 months doing max training per month. This is only 4 new half breeds every 3 months. Cross training(App and Twr and Twr and APP) means that only after 6 months you will have 4 fully Tower and Approach qualified ATC's.
WE NEED A MINIMUM OF 20
There is no way in hell this can be achieved
in the time left.
I am not even refering to training on the two Area sectors where the same need to happen.
The golden answer here(in all news papers) is "The Military controllers will help out"
They need exactly the same training as any other overseas controller who are interested in taking up the challenge to come and help us.
NOT negative but only looking the facts in the eye
RE
RMK/ Still no new training happening
Abu Dhabi Night shift needs 4 to 5 controllers(Approach and Tower/Gmc) to complete a 9 hour night shift as they are pretty busy tilll about 3am.
The Area also have about 4 to 5 controllers just to make things work.
As I believe, most flight during the WC is planned during the night in SA as some stations already run close to maximum capacity during normal daytime operation.
Cape Town presently have 2 controllers (Approach and Tower/GMC) managing the night shift. To be able to handle a busy night shift, it should be increased to at least 4. This means an increase in staff of at least 20 Tower and Approach rated ATC's minimum.
To train any Tower or Appraoch ATC they need at least 100 hours(Already qualified staff at any other local or overseas station with experience).
At present two new Approach and two new Tower controllers can be trained and be qualified simultaniously only after 3 months doing max training per month. This is only 4 new half breeds every 3 months. Cross training(App and Twr and Twr and APP) means that only after 6 months you will have 4 fully Tower and Approach qualified ATC's.
WE NEED A MINIMUM OF 20
There is no way in hell this can be achieved
in the time left.I am not even refering to training on the two Area sectors where the same need to happen.
The golden answer here(in all news papers) is "The Military controllers will help out"
They need exactly the same training as any other overseas controller who are interested in taking up the challenge to come and help us.
NOT negative but only looking the facts in the eye
RE
RMK/ Still no new training happening
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The Area also have about 4 to 5 controllers just to make things work.
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News article from 2 November 2009
The following article was taken from www.engineeringnews.co.za
The Application was sent to the CCMA (Commission for Conciliation, Mediation & Arbitration) on 2 Nov '09.
We just heard today that the ESC (Essential Services Committee) has given a date of 2 Dec '09. This apparently gives them time to familiarize themselves with all the relevant information before the case can be heard by the parties involved.
What counts in the favour of Solidarity and it's members is the fact the the LRA (Labour Relations Act) of the 70's compel the CCMA/ESC to expedite the process: "must determine.. as soon as possible". So neither ATNS nor the CCMA/ESC can delay the process...
It is a waiting game for now... until 2 Dec '09.
Code:
Trade union Solidarity on Monday called for air traffic regulation and control to no longer be considered an essential service, as this would allow air controllers to strike legally. The union lodged a document with the Essential Services Committee (ESC) of the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration (CCMA), demanding that air traffic regulation and control be scrapped as an essential service. Solidarity said that a survey conducted by the union among air traffic controllers and other employees of the company Air Traffic Navigation Services (ATNS) showed that 94% of participating air traffic controllers and employees supported an application for the scrapping of their essential service status. Solidarity served the application documents on ATNS on Friday. The first round of wage negotiations for 2010 started at ATNS on Tuesday. In terms of a notice published in the Government Gazette in June 1997, air traffic regulation and control is declared as an essential service in terms of Section 71 of the Labour Relations Act. As a result of this declaration, air traffic controllers are not allowed to participate in strikes. In terms of Section 212 of the Labour Relations Act, an essential service was one whose disruption would threaten the lives, personal safety or health of the population as a whole or a part of the population. However, Solidarity maintained that a strike that led to the disruption of air traffic controllers’ services would not pose a threat as contemplated in the legislation because the industry possesses a highly developed communications system. “The system ensures efficient national and international communication between the various airports, airlines and all role-players in the aviation industry. If there were eventually to be a strike by ATNS employees in South Africa, all flights scheduled to and from South Africa during that period would have advance notice of at least 48 hours of the strike,” said Solidarity spokesperson Jaco Kleynhans. “The flights would, therefore, be cancelled or rescheduled in time, before they take off. Consequently, no lives, safety or health would be put in jeopardy. Although inconvenience and economic losses could result from a strike, it is not mortal danger as referred to in the legislation,” Kleynhans further explained. “A strike could place pressure on air traffic in South Africa, but the current system does not leave any room for these employees to strike. In the event of failed wage negotiations, the only recourse currently available is to refer the dispute to the CCMA for arbitration, but this route seldom yields the desired result for the employees,” Kleynhans said. “Strikes and the threat of strike action are constitutional rights and a legal part of the power play in wage negotiations. Without it, employees are left to the mercy of employers and the arbitration system.” Documents lodged with the ESC would be considered, and the committee would decide whether Solidarity may do a presentation regarding the issue. Following the presentations by the parties involved, the committee would make a decision regarding the status adjustment. Solidarity represented the majority of employees at ATNS, which is the only supplier of air traffic control and related services in South Africa. ATNS was responsible for the air traffic control of 10% of the world’s air space and controlled the air traffic at 19 South African airports, including OR Tambo, Cape Town, and Durban International airports.
We just heard today that the ESC (Essential Services Committee) has given a date of 2 Dec '09. This apparently gives them time to familiarize themselves with all the relevant information before the case can be heard by the parties involved.
What counts in the favour of Solidarity and it's members is the fact the the LRA (Labour Relations Act) of the 70's compel the CCMA/ESC to expedite the process: "must determine.. as soon as possible". So neither ATNS nor the CCMA/ESC can delay the process...
It is a waiting game for now... until 2 Dec '09.
Last edited by RadarMaggot; 13th Nov 2009 at 14:52. Reason: Some more info
Join Date: Feb 2008
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So much for world cup bonus , Atns can't even say how much we supposed to be getting.
If its not on paper it does not count !!!
And explain to me how the guys in the desert "know" more than us
If its not on paper it does not count !!!
And explain to me how the guys in the desert "know" more than us
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Hmmm i'm now thnking of flying to SA for the WC!
so i am now totally at ease and happy that there will be no problems with air traffic!!
NOT
Global-Travels - News - South Africa air traffic flow in 2010 will be smooth
so i am now totally at ease and happy that there will be no problems with air traffic!!
NOT
Global-Travels - News - South Africa air traffic flow in 2010 will be smooth
Join Date: Dec 2002
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returning
I heard that the last couple to return to ATNS were only offered a 3 year (with no pension or medical) contract?
Is this an attempt at making controllers wanting to leave rethink?
P
Is this an attempt at making controllers wanting to leave rethink?
P
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Salary negotiations
Here is one for ATNS regarding salary negotiations.
Checked in news paper this morning a Senoir Personal Assistant for the Rural development and land reform (Goverment) Salary package R448521 PA. Requirements very much the same as a PATC or (ATCO3) and they say ATC ask for to much money. I wonder if this is an essential service and if they can strike or who's life hangs in the balance every day.
I am just fed up with ATNS nd the Govermunts bulls
t 
Checked in news paper this morning a Senoir Personal Assistant for the Rural development and land reform (Goverment) Salary package R448521 PA. Requirements very much the same as a PATC or (ATCO3) and they say ATC ask for to much money. I wonder if this is an essential service and if they can strike or who's life hangs in the balance every day.
I am just fed up with ATNS nd the Govermunts bulls
t
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ATNS Contracts
At present ATNS is in a dispute with I think more than 10 South African ATC's about contract issues.We all know what was said on a dvd, written on info sheets and what was said on roadshows,but still legal action was taken.
I will be so scared to sign any piece of paper with an ATNS logo on it.You think you will return back home after the WC,there might be a surprise for you!!!!You might owe ATNS 1.2 million Euros or your great great grandchildren might still be ATNS slaves!!!
So all you out there be warned about signing a contract with ATNS!!!!
I will be so
scared to sign any piece of paper with an ATNS logo on it.You think you will return back home after the WC,there might be a surprise for you!!!!You might owe ATNS 1.2 million Euros or your great great grandchildren might still be ATNS slaves!!!So all you out there be warned about signing a contract with ATNS!!!!
Join Date: Jun 2002
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We had an instructors meeting yesterday for the Jo'burg approach pool and decided not to train any foreign part timers should they arrive because:
They pay issue has not been addressed fully and communicated.
We would love to have more people, but think if everyone pulls a little harder - it should be OK. Or rather it is going to have to be.
Starting someone fresh now would mean they only have less than 2 months experience, which is a little risky seeing it will be the busiest ever.
It's not about emotion, it's just the way it is.
They pay issue has not been addressed fully and communicated.
We would love to have more people, but think if everyone pulls a little harder - it should be OK. Or rather it is going to have to be.
Starting someone fresh now would mean they only have less than 2 months experience, which is a little risky seeing it will be the busiest ever.
It's not about emotion, it's just the way it is.
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At present ATNS is in a dispute with I think more than 10 South African ATC's about contract issues
But not to worry they are starting a radio campaign (only black radio stations) to get new BEE ATC that will most propably replace us sooner than later. Well done Patrick hope Minister of Transport gives you a nice big package to wipe out all the whites, and they say there is no racism. Also very good practice of diversity in ATNS.
I am glad the JS guys are also standing together as did the CPT guys for not giving any OJT. Just looking at the basics ATNS brags about the 25 ATC coming to help us out,
1. Where are they?
2. How much time is left?
3. What qualifications do they have?
seeing that most have failed the ATA assesments, now the new story is that they don't have to do assesment as CAA will aprove their European licence.I think all OJTI's must refuse training
Does anybody have any feedback regarding the Essential service issue.
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Essential Service
Does anybody have any feedback regarding the Essential service issue.
The date given by the ESC (2 Dec 09) is only a preliminary date and in Africa this can mean anything...
Hopefully we'll hear something from the CCMA in the first week of Dec 09.
In the meantime, keep watching the email and notice boards; there will be a letter/communique from Solidarity soon which will open up a few "options"...
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Hey Juggie1
"So all you out there be warned about signing a contract with ATNS!!!!"
I really enjoyed your thread, had a good laugh. It's just a big pity that it's all true and you were spot on.
Regards
"So all you out there be warned about signing a contract with ATNS!!!!"
I really enjoyed your thread, had a good laugh. It's just a big pity that it's all true and you were spot on.
Regards
Join Date: Nov 2009
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ATNS, die f@kkers!!!!
Apparently no foreigners will be coming over, because there is not enough time to train them anyway. So far, nothing has been done about work Visas etc.
ATNS has also admitted the the Euro salary advertised was a mistake on their part.
It's true that the foreign ATC licenses would have been accepted without any assessments being done. This seems to have only been the case for the Swedish ATC's and not anyone from other African countries.
Porra:
The last 2 ATC's that have returned, have indeed only been offered a 3 year contract, however, ATNS have been kind enough to supply them with medical (isn't that just so nice of them?). They are left without pension though. This is apparently a new policy that ATNS will be applying to any ATC that might return to the wonderful employ of ATNS (yeah right).
ATNS truly has the RETENTION of their staff at heart!!!!!!
Regards,
Apparently no foreigners will be coming over, because there is not enough time to train them anyway. So far, nothing has been done about work Visas etc.
ATNS has also admitted the the Euro salary advertised was a mistake on their part.
It's true that the foreign ATC licenses would have been accepted without any assessments being done. This seems to have only been the case for the Swedish ATC's and not anyone from other African countries.
Porra:
The last 2 ATC's that have returned, have indeed only been offered a 3 year contract, however, ATNS have been kind enough to supply them with medical (isn't that just so nice of them?). They are left without pension though. This is apparently a new policy that ATNS will be applying to any ATC that might return to the wonderful employ of ATNS (yeah right).
ATNS truly has the RETENTION of their staff at heart!!!!!!
Regards,