UK - NATS Pay negotiations - latest rumours
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Age: 64
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Me Me Me Me
I believe management have scheduled some further meeting dates through till late April... So don't expect any resolution soon!
And I can't imagine for one minute that anyone would be crazy enough to come to work on a day off for the current published overtime rate...especially an ATCO 1
More than just an ATCO
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Up someone's nose
Age: 75
Posts: 1,768
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Imterestingly the people who are ultimately responsible for the decisions re Eurocontrol salaries are the various ministers responsible for atc in their own countries. Interesting to see the double standards sometimes applied
I don't know exactly how the proposed cuts will be introduced (nobody informing us pensioners) but the way it was done to us was a freeze until the lower alleged costs of living caught up with the costs in the Hague
Another case of BOHICA
I don't know exactly how the proposed cuts will be introduced (nobody informing us pensioners) but the way it was done to us was a freeze until the lower alleged costs of living caught up with the costs in the Hague
Another case of BOHICA
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Age: 64
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
According to the latest info newsletter put out by the union, there are now no further pay meetings scheduled, as management have cancelled the one pencilled in for March 29th, and the only current offer on the table is the old offer of 2%
The word from the union briefings held over the past week or so, is that the union are going to re-introduce AAVAs (not that they have actually gone yet. They have only given notice to withdraw from the agreement) at the current rate, without so much as a fight, because "the company can't function without them". Rubbish. They (management) used this excuse over the pension debacle, then announced £90m profits...They then used this excuse over the last ridiciculous pay deal we accepted, then announced record profits of £100m+. Now they are trying the exact same tactic over the AAVA agreement, with massive profits still rolling in. Do the union, and management expect the members to accept such a lame, ridiculous argument a third time. We are simply being taken for mugs.
I really hope this is all smoke & mirrors, because if this is the case, then the union is as powerless as I have thought they are for a long time, and you have to wonder whose best interests the union have these days. It certainly doesn't appear to be its members, who pay them to represent them, not
I can't actually think of one positive thing the union has actually achieved over the past 4 years, and working together is a complete sham, dreamed up by management, as it is a wholly one way street, benefitting management, and completely penalising union members.
Not impressed. Not impressed in the slightest, by either management or the union.
The word from the union briefings held over the past week or so, is that the union are going to re-introduce AAVAs (not that they have actually gone yet. They have only given notice to withdraw from the agreement) at the current rate, without so much as a fight, because "the company can't function without them". Rubbish. They (management) used this excuse over the pension debacle, then announced £90m profits...They then used this excuse over the last ridiciculous pay deal we accepted, then announced record profits of £100m+. Now they are trying the exact same tactic over the AAVA agreement, with massive profits still rolling in. Do the union, and management expect the members to accept such a lame, ridiculous argument a third time. We are simply being taken for mugs.
I really hope this is all smoke & mirrors, because if this is the case, then the union is as powerless as I have thought they are for a long time, and you have to wonder whose best interests the union have these days. It certainly doesn't appear to be its members, who pay them to represent them, not
I can't actually think of one positive thing the union has actually achieved over the past 4 years, and working together is a complete sham, dreamed up by management, as it is a wholly one way street, benefitting management, and completely penalising union members.
Not impressed. Not impressed in the slightest, by either management or the union.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Winchester.Hants.England
Posts: 406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IF, what has been posted above is correct then some action has to be taken by members of both unions.
IF, the “word from the Union briefings” is correct then clearly the NTUS is not fit for purpose and they need to be replaced with people who are able to stand up to a management side that seem to have been running rings around the present incumbents for some time.
The first thing that needs to be done by either this or a new NTUS is to get rid of the ridiculous “Working together” nonsense.
You could actually keep it if you tweeked it slightly. Make it so that the NTUS is “working together” with the members, and not the management.
IF, the “word from the Union briefings” is correct then clearly the NTUS is not fit for purpose and they need to be replaced with people who are able to stand up to a management side that seem to have been running rings around the present incumbents for some time.
The first thing that needs to be done by either this or a new NTUS is to get rid of the ridiculous “Working together” nonsense.
You could actually keep it if you tweeked it slightly. Make it so that the NTUS is “working together” with the members, and not the management.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: 29 Acacia Road
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The word from the union briefings held over the past week or so, is that the union are going to re-introduce AAVAs (not that they have actually gone yet. They have only given notice to withdraw from the agreement)
DC10
Thanks - interesting news that, here is a link BBC News - Arriva Trains Wales strike under way
and from that page...
The union has accused the company of paying Welsh drivers less than their English counterparts
Either way, it would seem that RPI + 1 and a bit is acceptable to other managements in the current climate. Come on NATS, sort it out, it could save you £££'s (in fines due to delays this summer!) its not like all of that is pensionable just now is it???
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Home
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Disillusioned
There are no further NTUS meetings... That's the joint ones where all parties are at the table. My understanding is that meetings continue with the respective branches... Probably where they try to get one to sell out the others for a pound of flesh. Same old story.
According to the latest info newsletter put out by the union, there are now no further pay meetings scheduled, as management have cancelled the one pencilled in for March 29th, and the only current offer on the table is the old offer of 2%
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cheshire, California, Geneva, and Paris
Age: 67
Posts: 867
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Landoutagain.
Thank you for that BBC story. Yes I am sure that you are right, substitute ScATCC-V-Swanwick, En-route-v-TC, atcos-v-atsas, Prospect-v-PCS etc the list is endless and historic.
Thank you for that BBC story. Yes I am sure that you are right, substitute ScATCC-V-Swanwick, En-route-v-TC, atcos-v-atsas, Prospect-v-PCS etc the list is endless and historic.
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Age: 54
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The NTUS meetings are where the core pay offer is sorted out.
The sectional meeting are where the individual sections sell things to NATS. These agreements are cost neutral ie: They add noting to NATS's costs.
If the core pay offer is only 2% then the union can whistle for my subs. That is less than half the inflation rate FFS.
The sectional meeting are where the individual sections sell things to NATS. These agreements are cost neutral ie: They add noting to NATS's costs.
If the core pay offer is only 2% then the union can whistle for my subs. That is less than half the inflation rate FFS.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Side
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mantiovani, if the core pay offer is only 2% then don't blame the union, they will have done the best they can. What you need to do then instead of petulantly withdrawing your subs and grumbling is vote no and send the negotiators back in with a mandate for industrial action.
A union is only as strong as its members...
A union is only as strong as its members...
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Age: 54
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
132.3 it is March and I have yet to be offered the chance to vote.
If the best my union can negotiate is less than half the rate of inflation, effectively a 3% pay cut, when the company is making 10s of millions in profits then the unions badly need to get some new negotiators in.
If the best my union can negotiate is less than half the rate of inflation, effectively a 3% pay cut, when the company is making 10s of millions in profits then the unions badly need to get some new negotiators in.
Last edited by Mantovani; 1st Mar 2011 at 13:23.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thats almost the exact email i just send to the head of NTUS
The time for action is now, With no meetings scheduled for the future what’s the point in continuing along this road. Lets start making the management think about how much a strike will cost them and take them by the reins.
Get everyone to set their working together to red so the GM's lose their bonuses for it, then it will suddenly become an issue they want to discuss. Put the colour of the working together as a condition of the negotiations for pay.
Grrrrrrrrrrr very angry at NATS management and would happily walk out tomorrow if the union gave the thumbs up.
DBB
The time for action is now, With no meetings scheduled for the future what’s the point in continuing along this road. Lets start making the management think about how much a strike will cost them and take them by the reins.
Get everyone to set their working together to red so the GM's lose their bonuses for it, then it will suddenly become an issue they want to discuss. Put the colour of the working together as a condition of the negotiations for pay.
Grrrrrrrrrrr very angry at NATS management and would happily walk out tomorrow if the union gave the thumbs up.
DBB
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Home
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The way these things are done is that it is the company who are obliged to make a written offer before the TUs are able to take it to members.
As I understand it management are keeping everything verbal and avoiding the formality. I would bet the NTUS guys are desperate to get that 2% in writing so they can get a resounding "NO!" from us and go back to the table stronger.
We're being strung along but it's not really the fault of NTUS. Their only other option would be to go to full dispute now - We'd all like that as it would be action... but I guess they worry it'd ruin any chance they might have of getting a decent offer.
As I understand it management are keeping everything verbal and avoiding the formality. I would bet the NTUS guys are desperate to get that 2% in writing so they can get a resounding "NO!" from us and go back to the table stronger.
We're being strung along but it's not really the fault of NTUS. Their only other option would be to go to full dispute now - We'd all like that as it would be action... but I guess they worry it'd ruin any chance they might have of getting a decent offer.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: UK
Age: 54
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When a company's employees strike, the management have to answer to the board who in turn answer to the shareholders.
IMVHO if you guys went on strike, the airlines that own 40% (?) of NATS will be directing the board and mgmt to sort it out. The cost to the airlines of a strike could potentially be huge - they wouldn't want that for the sake of a couple of %.
Just my 2 cents...
IMVHO if you guys went on strike, the airlines that own 40% (?) of NATS will be directing the board and mgmt to sort it out. The cost to the airlines of a strike could potentially be huge - they wouldn't want that for the sake of a couple of %.
Just my 2 cents...
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Deepest darkest Inbredland....
Posts: 606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What's the rush. Wait til the annual report is out in June and see how the management whatsits paid themselves and really give us a platform for action.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: 29 Acacia Road
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I like terrain safe's plan. Its almost exactly what they did to us last time round! Then they were keen to get the vote finished just before the figures came out, I dont see how there will be time this year. So, all their pay rises, and probably short staffing... could be a good bargaining hand by then!
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Age: 64
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am more concerned right now as to the union's plan over the AAVA agreement.
Are the union going to let it lapse on April 28th as stated, or are they gong to cave, and either cancel their notice to withdraw from the AAVA agreement, or simply re-sign a new one on, say, May 1st ?
The nightmare scenario is that it gets re-signed literally days after the 28th April withdrawal date, but gets re-signed "in perpetuity" (I believe that's what it's called), whereby it now has no expiry date. That is one of the scary scenarios that I have heard whispered about.
However, I don't know how the union could do that, as my understanding is that they have no mandate to renew the AAVA agreement from the members, in fact, quite the opposite. My understanding is that the union has a mandate to not renew the AAVA agreement (when it actually expires at the end of 2011, under the current agreement).
But, the union seem to have a knack of applying those mandates which it wants to apply, and giving a sidestep to those mandates which don't quite fit into its agenda.
I think there is way too much union/management collaboration going on these days. I saw it in the pensions debacle, and I am seeing it here too. And I don't like it one bit.
Are the union going to let it lapse on April 28th as stated, or are they gong to cave, and either cancel their notice to withdraw from the AAVA agreement, or simply re-sign a new one on, say, May 1st ?
The nightmare scenario is that it gets re-signed literally days after the 28th April withdrawal date, but gets re-signed "in perpetuity" (I believe that's what it's called), whereby it now has no expiry date. That is one of the scary scenarios that I have heard whispered about.
However, I don't know how the union could do that, as my understanding is that they have no mandate to renew the AAVA agreement from the members, in fact, quite the opposite. My understanding is that the union has a mandate to not renew the AAVA agreement (when it actually expires at the end of 2011, under the current agreement).
But, the union seem to have a knack of applying those mandates which it wants to apply, and giving a sidestep to those mandates which don't quite fit into its agenda.
I think there is way too much union/management collaboration going on these days. I saw it in the pensions debacle, and I am seeing it here too. And I don't like it one bit.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: etha
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It would be nice if everyone just stops doing AAVA's now but I know that will not happen. Very disappointing.
Everyone moans and groans but does nothing about it. We are our own worst enemy and play perfectly into management hands. Put yourself on the other side of the fence - what would you do? Exactly what management are doing.
Weak union, weak support. Lots of toy chucking and dummy spitting, but nothing that will hurt. Prepare yourself for another fall.
Everyone moans and groans but does nothing about it. We are our own worst enemy and play perfectly into management hands. Put yourself on the other side of the fence - what would you do? Exactly what management are doing.
Weak union, weak support. Lots of toy chucking and dummy spitting, but nothing that will hurt. Prepare yourself for another fall.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: HANTS
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just load all the blame on the union why don't you?
How about as a workforce we showed some f*****g spine and stopped doing overtime.The onus is on us as individuals and as said above the management are playing exactly the way we should expect.
Too easy to keep taking the money and let our Prospect reps be the nominated fall guys.
How about as a workforce we showed some f*****g spine and stopped doing overtime.The onus is on us as individuals and as said above the management are playing exactly the way we should expect.
Too easy to keep taking the money and let our Prospect reps be the nominated fall guys.