UK - NATS Pay negotiations - latest rumours
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250 kts - You seem to be saying we should keep our powder dry for the bigger issue; PPP anyone? Maybe if we hadn't been such a soft touch then we wouldn't be facing this situation now.
PS And maybe our pension scheme would have remained untouched!
PS And maybe our pension scheme would have remained untouched!
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Not at all. I just think the negotiating process need to be allowed some time to come to a logical end. One side walking out does not mean that negotiations have completely broken down.
Do you really think there will be an overwhelming walk out over 1% or 2% or so around Christmas??
Should there ever be a need for industrial action then it has to be something that will be guaranteed to get at least 80% out of the door. Anything less than that and management have us just where they want us.
Remember there is a voluntary scheme that people can always decide not to participate in to let management know their feelings.
Do you really think there will be an overwhelming walk out over 1% or 2% or so around Christmas??
Should there ever be a need for industrial action then it has to be something that will be guaranteed to get at least 80% out of the door. Anything less than that and management have us just where they want us.
Remember there is a voluntary scheme that people can always decide not to participate in to let management know their feelings.
Disappointed
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PCS this week, on behalf of the ATSAs, were offered 1.5% on basic pay only - and from 1st April 2011.
PCS have therefore walked out of negotiations with a further meeting not planned until 10th December or thereabouts.
PCS have therefore walked out of negotiations with a further meeting not planned until 10th December or thereabouts.
Disappointed
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I'm only aware of the PCS side of things at the moment, I didn't want to comment about the ATCO TU side until I knew the facts. But one would presume NTUS is still "Working Together".
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It's a completely joint offer, rejected by the joint TU side... It's just that PCS seem to be more active in their communication of it.
I can see this offer going to ballot with a recommendation to reject. I'll certainly reject another pay cut... but I really don't see a mass walk-out happening.
I can see this offer going to ballot with a recommendation to reject. I'll certainly reject another pay cut... but I really don't see a mass walk-out happening.
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Remember there is a voluntary scheme that people can always decide not to participate in to let management know their feelings.
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There is no need to go on strike and lose money.
NATS are driving through huge change very quickly and fairly smoothly using Working Together. NATS' profit are directly linked to the efficiencies Working Together has brought the company.
Look at the problems the Airline Group have in their own companies trying to bring in staffing efficiencies.
If they don't give us a pay rise at least equal to inflation then we should just ballot to cease Working Together completely.
Quid pro quo.
NATS are driving through huge change very quickly and fairly smoothly using Working Together. NATS' profit are directly linked to the efficiencies Working Together has brought the company.
Look at the problems the Airline Group have in their own companies trying to bring in staffing efficiencies.
If they don't give us a pay rise at least equal to inflation then we should just ballot to cease Working Together completely.
Quid pro quo.
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If they don't give us a pay rise at least equal to inflation then we should just ballot to cease Working Together completely.
I don't want to see strikes... To me the best and easiest way to force management's hand is work to rule. Yes, that would mean no AAVAs.
More than just an ATCO
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I remember the ATSA's 6 week strike back in 78...that took balls but to be honest cant see the ATCO's doing the same!!
Fred Karno couldn't have done it better.
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose (There's a hint in there}
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If they don't give us a pay rise at least equal to inflation then we should just ballot to cease Working Together completely.
There is no need to go on strike and lose money.
Me, Me, Me is correct in that a good start would be no one doing any voluntary extra duties. Remember they really need people to do them if iFACTS and EFD are to be introduced successfully next year.
Last edited by 250 kts; 3rd Nov 2010 at 12:14.
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Just a para from a longer article I have just found and posted on the NATS for sale forum....
At the same time, Deakin hopes to take the opportunity to double the work force's shareholding to 10% to better engage the 5,000 workers and ensure their interests are more closely aligned with the company's goals. Even though 80% to 90% of its employees are unionized, NATS hasn't suffered industrial action since 1981.
At the same time, Deakin hopes to take the opportunity to double the work force's shareholding to 10% to better engage the 5,000 workers and ensure their interests are more closely aligned with the company's goals. Even though 80% to 90% of its employees are unionized, NATS hasn't suffered industrial action since 1981.
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250 kts, I think iFacts is writing its own course now and nothing they say or do on the 4th floor can alter that much. If it doesn't work then we can't use it. 
Me Me Me Me:
I haven't done any for years and will not do any no matter how much the money would come in handy. I KNOW there are some that simply will not give up AAVA's no matter what. Totally not what I like but that is their own prerogative. 
Me Me Me Me:
Yes, that would mean no AAVAs.
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I think iFacts is writing its own course now and nothing they say or do on the 4th floor can alter that much
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It's a bit naive to talk about refusing to volunteer for extra duties. From my experience nobody truly volunteers, as in going to management and saying 'Please Boss, the MATS pt 2 needs rewriting, I'd love to do it'.
What happens is that management asks you to rewrite the MATS Pt 2, usually with a sweetener like 'You're the only one I can rely on', or 'It will give you a broader insight into ATC management'. Refusing such a request is not simply refusing to volunteer - you are effectively saying 'Nob off', and you will probably find that EG's and days off suddenly disappear.
Never forget that management, however inept, always has the upper hand.
What happens is that management asks you to rewrite the MATS Pt 2, usually with a sweetener like 'You're the only one I can rely on', or 'It will give you a broader insight into ATC management'. Refusing such a request is not simply refusing to volunteer - you are effectively saying 'Nob off', and you will probably find that EG's and days off suddenly disappear.
Never forget that management, however inept, always has the upper hand.
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radarman,
I'm specifically talking about AAVAs.
Without them NATS will really struggle to introduce the changes they have promised next year.
Remember this thread is about Pay. There are options to a ballot that was suggested recently.
I'm specifically talking about AAVAs.
Without them NATS will really struggle to introduce the changes they have promised next year.
Remember this thread is about Pay. There are options to a ballot that was suggested recently.
Disappointed
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Our pay negotiations and any clout we once had are grossly undermined by a greedy, selfish, divided and apathetic workforce.
And I mean greedy in the sense of reluctance to work to rule, and ready acceptance of company bribes to sign terms and conditions away.
I'm expecting our eventual deal to be another shafting to be honest.
And I mean greedy in the sense of reluctance to work to rule, and ready acceptance of company bribes to sign terms and conditions away.
I'm expecting our eventual deal to be another shafting to be honest.