UK - NATS Pay negotiations - latest rumours

[Hootin an a roarin]

If a prime reason to 'Down Band' a unit is a drop in traffic,then surely pretty much every NSL unit bar EGLL and EGLC would have to take a drop in Banding

This has never been the case. Our units' figures continually beat Brum and have since the day banding was brought in and they are the next band up.

It's too political to separate the Scottish airports and will not happen. We won't be part of NATS soon anyway and with the way things are going roll on that day. I must pass on my commiserations to Manchester who have had their Nats contract renewed.

[Grumpyoldgit]

3miles sounds like somebody who failed an assessment at EGCC and has a chip the size of Mount Everest on his/her shoulder. bet he/her voted yes to the pension changes too!

[throw a dyce]

Well Grumpy,if Manchester's traffic keeps falling at the same rate,then you'll all be Atco 3's soon.The rest of NSL has been bailing out the Manchester contract for years.That includes units that have already had terms and conditions slashed.Why should we tolerate one unit sitting fat,dumb and happy,sneering at very experienced staff from so called lower band units,and it's lost millions.
Maybe a cold dose of reality is what's needed.It's coming but not on a scale that other units have received.

[Grumpyoldgit]

throwa dyce.It might interest you to know that we still have not recovered from the last 5 year "shafting" we received. Its not that long ago that we were shifting upwards of 800 movements a day without the full compliment of staff.
Its not our fault the way the contracts are negotiated & we are under no illusions as to what is going to happen
I object to the likes of you & 3miles insinuating that we sit on our fat ar__s doing nothing. You have no more idea what goes on at EGCC than I do at Aberdeen & where ever 3miles resides.
Management must laugh there socks of at what get published here.
I have been in this game for more than 25 years & I have never seen a more divided set of controllers in all my life!! Who is responsible for that.
Our union & management. Its about time we all stood up for each and everyone of us regardless of where we reside.
Oh, I forget, some controllers would sell their grannies for a few quid!!

[Flybywyre]

I have never seen a more divided set of controllers in all my life!!
Who is responsible for that. Our union & management.

When it comes to the current NTUS can anyone spot the difference between the two

[Hootin an a roarin]

Its not that long ago that we were shifting upwards of 800 movements a day without the full compliment of staff.

Maybe if the manc selection process was all transparent then this may not have happened. In the past before movement between NSL units became almost impossible you could have filled your seats. However too many managers at Manc up their own backsides, a well renowned face fitting culture plus a big unit attitude because you are co-located with NERL has all contributed to this situation. Why not fill the void with even more area controllers and their unqualified girlfriends? That is why people have a chip on their shoulder/are bitter because the whole process has never been above board. Why has it ever been necessary for a qualified NATS TWR/App controller to have an interview to do the same job? It does not happen at Heathrow so is Manc so much harder?

I'm afraid your management have created this problem.

[throw a dyce]

That's if you could get an assessment.Controllers who were valid in 3 ratings,OJTI etc were even been refused an assessment.The reason was that our GM at the time,was prepared to lie on application forms,as our own unit was in dire straights staffing wise.Couldn't be released.People found out and complained.They then went to be assessed and failed for no reason.Couldn't be released.
I really can't see what shafting EGCC has had.They are Band 4 with no more difficult job than Band 2 units.They have losses that are now coming to light.They have been completely untouched,until now.Perhaps Grumpy should open his eyes to what has happened at other NSL units,mainly due to NTUS agreements.

[Grumpyoldgit]

Hootin an a roarin. You may well be completely correct-I couldn`t possibly comment!! However, as stated before, after already having been shafted in the previous 5 year contract, I do know that the guys & galls at the coal face on my watch do not have chips on their shoulders. They just do & have done, their best to provide a service to the customer, be it the airport authority or airline, under whatever circumstances are thrown at them!!
Just as you & all the other Nats controllers do at their respective units.

If there are controllers(or management bods for that matter) at EGCC who do have "chips" & "egos", then I`m sure they will know who they are & I apologise on their behalf. Please do not tar the guys & galls at the coal face with the same brush.
ps. I can hazzard a guess that under the new contract, we will no longer understaffed!!! However, we always have a choice in life- either work the new practices or move on to pastures new.
Rant over!!

[Grumpyoldgit]

Quote "Perhaps Grumpy should open his eyes to what has happened at other NSL units,mainly due to NTUS agreements"
Ahhh We finally have the nub of the matter- the union & management setting controllers against each other. Smell the coffee folks. I`m sure a could find something better to do with my union subscription!!

[loubylou]

PS - you most certainly DO have to have an assessment AND in in depth interview about NSL, in order to either get an ATCO job at Heathrow OR TC ,
even moving between the "same" grade

louby

[anotherthing]

louby,

by 'TC' I assume you mean Heathrow App function... not for any other position

[Vote NO]

Let me get this right and myself up to speed !!..........

NATS have a new contract for five years to provide ATC at EGCC. The staff there are "secure" for the next five years, but they now have to take a pay cut to reemburse NATS for the the lost revenue which they (NATS) agreed in the new "contract". Also are we now using our "dry powder" to reignite the flames of a "threat of industrial action" to stop the pay cut at Manch, and stop NATS from trying it on elsewhere ?

[Geffen]

Does anybody know what is actually going on? I sincerely hope that the guys n' gals up at EGCC aren't looking at a pay cut.

[Traffic is...]

I'm sure the union will do the right thing (), but if EGCC do end up taking a pay cut and nothing is done about it, then it will only be a matter of months before another airport is taking a pay cut, then another, etc....

[Hootin an a roarin]

PS - you most certainly DO have to have an assessment AND in in depth interview about NSL, in order to either get an ATCO job at Heathrow OR TC ,
even moving between the "same" grade

No you don't.

If you actually read what I said I did not state that you didn't have to have an assessment, I said an interview. You do not have to be 'grilled' by 2 managers to become an ATCO2 at Heathrow whilst at Manc you do. And why? Your credentials are known and proven within the company it's just a change of airspace to learn and an increase in traffic. Why interview, it is not a management position. If you put your head up above the parapet and pass the assessment at LHR you are in London before your feet touch the ground. However when you did your assessment, force fed I believe by your current MATC which you stated at the time, you did not have an interview because there wasn't time. That however was a one off.

Grumpy

Again I never said anyone at Manc had chips on their shoulders. I was responding to accusations from others who point to people who might have been unsuccessful in getting into Manc and are then accused of having this.
If everything was above board there would be no bitterness but it hasn't always been like that over the years. When your ex GM sent out a memo stating only a maximum of 3 area controllers (if successfull) would be accepted that guaranteed 3 area controllers WOULD be accepted. Lo and behold.

I have nothing personal against the coal face workers at Manc but again state that your problems have been created by a pompous attitude and the big unit mentality which lies fairly and squarely at senior mangements feet.
Hope it all works out well for the coal face

Regards

[Hootin an a roarin]

I have no problem about having to do a practical assessment in order to move to a busier unit - but agree that having to do an in depth interview for - as you say - essentially another controlling job is not reasonable.

We agree, hurrah! i'll leave it there.

p.s. good luck for the wedding

[loubylou]

Another thing
- yes I meant TC on the approach side - I don't know what would happen if someone wanted to dust off old area ratings.

Hootin' -
Yes you do - I have a friend who has had to do just that - assessment AND interview about NSL's hopes dreams , vision blah

louby

[anotherthing]

Yahoo - I was rather hoping we could get rid of some of the managers we have at Swanwick already, and making the roles non existent... we certainly don't need any more of them!!! That way we could protect the Ts and Cs of the rank and file at Manchester and save money to boot.

The best way would be to look at the roles, if they really are needed, keep them in place, if not, terminate the contract. The days of a guaranteed job for life have long gone, especially in PCG land (and not before time I might add).

I assume this talk of pay cuts for Manchester staff is pure speculation at this point??

If Manchester airport are re-banded, will Manchester AC be re-banded as well?

[Gonzo]

Interview for LHR....

No you don't.

...Errrr, yes you do.

[45 before POL]

ANy PCG grade managers at Manch??? They will probably be sweating at the moment as the axe has started to swing. 1 at Swanwick gone with immediate effect and a number of others told post going, with others subject to an interview..