UK - NATS Pay negotiations - latest rumours
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: cheshire
Hootin and Roarin
the three area atcos who where offered positions on twr/app all held validations in the tower. one has regained his tower validation quite quickly, one is coming across when the centre closes and the other is doing something else. It would seem prudent in terms of training time and money to offer those positions to people who have already held validations in the tower
the three area atcos who where offered positions on twr/app all held validations in the tower. one has regained his tower validation quite quickly, one is coming across when the centre closes and the other is doing something else. It would seem prudent in terms of training time and money to offer those positions to people who have already held validations in the tower
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Hants
45 before POL
I know of one PCG at Swanwick who has gone with immediate effect - but he is being replaced... in fact, already has been.
Another one has moved sideways within the company, although the e-mail inferred he was leaving NATS. Again once he has moved sideways, someone else is taking up his old post.
I have also heard on good authority that we are keeping all 5 OM's.
So as far as I can see, we have not made any savings as yet on management positions.
I do have it on good authority that one ATCO who has been unable to validate and has been hiding in an office on top of the scale pay will be going though... not before time, but not a huge saving.
We seem to be getting rid of a load of ATSAs - not sure if letters have gone out yet - it was supposed to be yesterday but it did not happen. I think they are to be gone by the end of the month.
So when the summer schedules kick in (and I am sure people will actually be surprised at the traffic levels - they won't be as low as some may think), we are going to be woefully short of ATSAs, especially in TC - any balancing between the two Ops rooms will require retraining, but there will be nobody to do it!
I can see overtime happening in the TC Ops room for ATSAs within the next 2 months.
Once again, a case of management looking after themselves and not doing what is best for NATS, or dare I say it,the provision of a safe service.
I know of one PCG at Swanwick who has gone with immediate effect - but he is being replaced... in fact, already has been.
Another one has moved sideways within the company, although the e-mail inferred he was leaving NATS. Again once he has moved sideways, someone else is taking up his old post.
I have also heard on good authority that we are keeping all 5 OM's.
So as far as I can see, we have not made any savings as yet on management positions.
I do have it on good authority that one ATCO who has been unable to validate and has been hiding in an office on top of the scale pay will be going though... not before time, but not a huge saving.
We seem to be getting rid of a load of ATSAs - not sure if letters have gone out yet - it was supposed to be yesterday but it did not happen. I think they are to be gone by the end of the month.
So when the summer schedules kick in (and I am sure people will actually be surprised at the traffic levels - they won't be as low as some may think), we are going to be woefully short of ATSAs, especially in TC - any balancing between the two Ops rooms will require retraining, but there will be nobody to do it!
I can see overtime happening in the TC Ops room for ATSAs within the next 2 months.
Once again, a case of management looking after themselves and not doing what is best for NATS, or dare I say it,the provision of a safe service.
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Up North
Opnot
Taking away an NSL controllers promotion prospects because an area controller has decided to side step is poor. From a business point of view it makes sense I agree but that doesn't make it right.
Plus (if we are talking about the situation from a few years back) when one of those controllers takes his other half with him, or was doing at the time, because he was successful and they couldn't give it one without the other is scandalous. Especially when the said person was not previously valid but no doubt was the best on the selection day as said controller's boyfriend's mates were the ones conducting the selection tests. Very incestuous. That is where the 'chips on the shoulder' come from and lack of transparency.
Taking away an NSL controllers promotion prospects because an area controller has decided to side step is poor. From a business point of view it makes sense I agree but that doesn't make it right.
Plus (if we are talking about the situation from a few years back) when one of those controllers takes his other half with him, or was doing at the time, because he was successful and they couldn't give it one without the other is scandalous. Especially when the said person was not previously valid but no doubt was the best on the selection day as said controller's boyfriend's mates were the ones conducting the selection tests. Very incestuous. That is where the 'chips on the shoulder' come from and lack of transparency.
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: swanlake
Another thing ..There is one you have not mentioned that will be going and not sideways. As for posts being replaced? yes its true with the one that went with immediate effect, but what happened to their old post? Somewhere there is a void ........I quite agree...... with all the cuts planned , atsa's /personnel/ engineering/contractors again a kneejerk reaction,and an excuse to maximise profits. Looks like the beancounters are out to save money but in reality, come the summer traffic even if it is at 2005 levels(worst case scenario) is still busy and with less atsas to man sectors in AC and there is already overtime given out. TC being cut to the bone....i don't know where the unions will go with this as I can see a push for compulsory overtime at some point by management. Delays???? Hmmm I think management and the public might find themselves in for a shock(IMO)
the direction the company is going is worrying
the direction the company is going is worrying
many companies have been guilty of it, but the level they do it and how blatent is another =
Joined: Nov 2008
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From: UK
Traffic is
Did the "Union" 
know about this special contract and did they agree to it? 
. Did the staff at EGCC know about it, and accept it to stay in situ, and have they set a precedent? 
I will take silence to mean "yes"
I'm sure the union will do the right thing (
), but if EGCC do end up taking a pay cut and nothing is done about it, then it will only be a matter of months before another airport is taking a pay cut, then another, etc....
), but if EGCC do end up taking a pay cut and nothing is done about it, then it will only be a matter of months before another airport is taking a pay cut, then another, etc....
know about this special contract and did they agree to it? . Did the staff at EGCC know about it, and accept it to stay in situ, and have they set a precedent? I will take silence to mean "yes"
Last edited by Vote NO; 13th March 2009 at 20:11.
Joined: Jul 2008
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From: up north
Was there a big union meeting today?
Just got to work and ive heard again that our twatty company are pushing for not only a pay freeze, but a spine point freeze also.
With the execs all walking round getting big arse bonuses, they expect ops staff to take this !!!!e..... i dont care if mister b says a bonus is a 'gamble' or however he dresses it up. my pay and my spine points are my contract.... no gamble there so you can go swivel.
Anyone shed some light?
Just got to work and ive heard again that our twatty company are pushing for not only a pay freeze, but a spine point freeze also.
With the execs all walking round getting big arse bonuses, they expect ops staff to take this !!!!e..... i dont care if mister b says a bonus is a 'gamble' or however he dresses it up. my pay and my spine points are my contract.... no gamble there so you can go swivel.
Anyone shed some light?
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Hants
The pay spine freeze rumour has been around for a while. According to a well placed union rep I know it is just that - a rumour with no substance.
A pay freeze is one thing and easy to implement (if it's not challenged), a pay spine freeze is a change in a condition of our contract - not so easy.
A pay freeze is one thing and easy to implement (if it's not challenged), a pay spine freeze is a change in a condition of our contract - not so easy.
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Hants
Kinglouis
If I were management I think it would be very wise to say to the unions
"Not only do we need you to accept a pay freeze, but we cannot afford to pay spine point increases this year either".
The union will huff and puff and, as has happened, the rumour will get out into the public domain.
It does not even need to have a shred of truth in it - as soon as a rumour starts doing the rounds stating that management want a spine point freeze, they are onto a winner.
It means that in negotiations, if the union are unable to get a pay rise but we still get our annual pay spine, some suckers are going to think that we have done well.
In actual fact what will have happened is that the management have got exactly what they wanted (a pay freeze), whilst we pat ourselves on the backs for 'negotiating' what is contractually (and written in the employee handbook) ours anyways i.e. the annual pay spine.
The pay spine freeze is merely a rumour - and a very bad, unsubstantiated one at that. No one should even give it a second thought for exactly the reason above!!!
If I were management I think it would be very wise to say to the unions
"Not only do we need you to accept a pay freeze, but we cannot afford to pay spine point increases this year either".
The union will huff and puff and, as has happened, the rumour will get out into the public domain.
It does not even need to have a shred of truth in it - as soon as a rumour starts doing the rounds stating that management want a spine point freeze, they are onto a winner.
It means that in negotiations, if the union are unable to get a pay rise but we still get our annual pay spine, some suckers are going to think that we have done well.
In actual fact what will have happened is that the management have got exactly what they wanted (a pay freeze), whilst we pat ourselves on the backs for 'negotiating' what is contractually (and written in the employee handbook) ours anyways i.e. the annual pay spine.
The pay spine freeze is merely a rumour - and a very bad, unsubstantiated one at that. No one should even give it a second thought for exactly the reason above!!!
Joined: Dec 2008
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From: LACC - the Premier Centre
Del Prado,
Yes, NATS charges go up by the August RPI, which is why our pay rise is also based on the August RPI, because then NATS knows how much extra revenue it will be receiving and therefore how much it can pass on to staff in the form of a pay rise.
Pay meeting tomorrow!
Yes, NATS charges go up by the August RPI, which is why our pay rise is also based on the August RPI, because then NATS knows how much extra revenue it will be receiving and therefore how much it can pass on to staff in the form of a pay rise.
Pay meeting tomorrow!
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Costa del Swanwick
Never forget that anything less than last August RPI is a pay cut, exactly last August RPI is a pay freeze. Only RPI plus anything can be seen as a pay rise.
I think we will do well to get anything above 2.5% for 2009 but if this were tied into say, another 2% in 2010 then I think that would be a reasonable deal should a 2 year one be on the table.
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: scotland
I've been wondering if the 2 or 3 year pay offer would happen.
I'd sort of assumed that with qe stoking up an inflation inferno over the next year or two nobody would even give it a second thought.
Fantastic move by management if they could tie us in for any sort of extended period.
I'd sort of assumed that with qe stoking up an inflation inferno over the next year or two nobody would even give it a second thought.
Fantastic move by management if they could tie us in for any sort of extended period.
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: 29 Acacia Road
So if RPI is say, -2.5% next August as it is forecast to be, do you still expect an above 0% pay rise in 2010?
I think we will do well to get anything above 2.5% for 2009 but if this were tied into say, another 2% in 2010
I think we will do well to get anything above 2.5% for 2009 but if this were tied into say, another 2% in 2010
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: southeast england
So if RPI is say, -2.5% next August as it is forecast to be, do you still expect an above 0% pay rise in 2010?
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: An ATC centre this side of the moon.
How will you all feel when the Airline group walk away with a few million in share divis and we get cock all!!!
One thing for sure I will be mighty unhappy if thats the case......in real terms to take a pay cut as basically thats what a pay freeze will mean, just so we can pay the share holders a nice divi....I think not!!!
One thing for sure I will be mighty unhappy if thats the case......in real terms to take a pay cut as basically thats what a pay freeze will mean, just so we can pay the share holders a nice divi....I think not!!!
Joined: Nov 2008
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From: UK
That will be the same Airline group, our co-owners,(makes you proud does it not) two of which forked out £300 million smackers on fines for criminal dealings on fuel price surcharge fixing . Their former managers who are now in jail or facing jail terms will be comforted by those dividends, I am sure 
. We dont see much about that on the intranet propaganda pages do we? 
. Their former managers who are now in jail or facing jail terms will be comforted by those dividends, I am sure . We dont see much about that on the intranet propaganda pages do we?