Dubai / UAE
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Oasis
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I assume you are referring to Dubai. Would you like to enlighten us all as to why there are people planning to walk?
And after being told 'verbally' that our allowances or salary should be reviewed, at least to reflect the inflation, & now not even a Dirham, then you wonder why, why certain personnel are exploring other options, especially South-East bound....
Hei mate, I guess you'd better focus on the experiment from the East, down @ your ACC, as you don't have any idea wats gonna happen up the road, next door!
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Already a sense of insecurity.
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Already a sense of insecurity.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Gulf
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Tin-Bullet,
Rumours will always do the rounds, particularly at times like these. But a little common sense always helps to see the true picture. I am, as you say, 'living it' but am sure that anyone working for Serco shouldn't be worrying about their future in Dubai. It will only be those within the organisation (outside of Serco)that have been deemed 'surplus to requirement' that may be subject to a redeployment. There may be a bit of fat in the system but that will play an important role when the time comes to move down the road.
As for people getting fed up and moving to greener pastures, that will always happen. Always has. However in these post payrise times any move anywhere will certainly mean a considerable paycut. Of course being in Dubai is a lifestyle choice and some come here for a limited time, but considering the pay here now, justifying moving on or going home is a much tougher decision.
Gut feeling - no payrise (or cut) or increase in allowances and no layoffs.
RD
Rumours will always do the rounds, particularly at times like these. But a little common sense always helps to see the true picture. I am, as you say, 'living it' but am sure that anyone working for Serco shouldn't be worrying about their future in Dubai. It will only be those within the organisation (outside of Serco)that have been deemed 'surplus to requirement' that may be subject to a redeployment. There may be a bit of fat in the system but that will play an important role when the time comes to move down the road.
As for people getting fed up and moving to greener pastures, that will always happen. Always has. However in these post payrise times any move anywhere will certainly mean a considerable paycut. Of course being in Dubai is a lifestyle choice and some come here for a limited time, but considering the pay here now, justifying moving on or going home is a much tougher decision.
Gut feeling - no payrise (or cut) or increase in allowances and no layoffs.
RD
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UAE
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Training in the ME
I was wondering why only UAE was being denigrated for the Malaysian fiasco, Muscat also tried Sri Lanka and the Phillipines and that was an unmitigated disaster.
It was not through lack of training or OJTI efforts that they didn't make the grade. I had the dubious pleasure of watching one of the guys in the sim bang just about every aircraft into each other without fear or favour. Once he was allowed onto live traffic (a travesty all in itself) he then attempted at regular intervals to do the same thing again! He was apparently very good where he came from, he was just hopeless in Muscat. that was I believe the case with the guys from Malaysia.
It was not through lack of training or OJTI efforts that they didn't make the grade. I had the dubious pleasure of watching one of the guys in the sim bang just about every aircraft into each other without fear or favour. Once he was allowed onto live traffic (a travesty all in itself) he then attempted at regular intervals to do the same thing again! He was apparently very good where he came from, he was just hopeless in Muscat. that was I believe the case with the guys from Malaysia.
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Endorsing and confirming DD's experiences, the whole 'experiment' was a fiasco.
The saddest thing was that the individuals concerned were typically innocent parties, nice enough fellah's and capable in their own environment.
The spanners that decided to run the program however need to be isolated here as the catalyst to an embarrassing, time wasting and money consuming exercise
Needless to say I am sure we have not learned our lessons and we will at some point go down that road again
P.S RD...thanks once again for your constructive perspective on things, unfortunately it will be lost on some (no names will be mentioned!)
The saddest thing was that the individuals concerned were typically innocent parties, nice enough fellah's and capable in their own environment.
The spanners that decided to run the program however need to be isolated here as the catalyst to an embarrassing, time wasting and money consuming exercise
Needless to say I am sure we have not learned our lessons and we will at some point go down that road again
P.S RD...thanks once again for your constructive perspective on things, unfortunately it will be lost on some (no names will be mentioned!)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Dubai
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May I venture a query as to the reason for high holding at DESDI? I have had two experiences now, firstly 4 years ago just after the BAH F1 Grand Prix, we were cleared into DESDI hold at FL280 and then given a descent clearance to Alt 10,000 on the first outbound leg. Last week we were cleared into DESDI hold at FL390 with a descent to FL330 about 5 miles out from the hold. Subsequently cleared to FL250 and lower with several radio encouragements to increase our ROD, admittedly a large CB was affecting the controllers scope to manoeuver. I also know from reading these pages that there are several factors outside the ATCO's control which limit tactical controlling and it appears that the situation will not improve soon, but I would genuinely be interested in some feedback for these profiles. We did out best to limit our speed, but we cannot put flap out in the 330 until 20,000' and at a TAS of 420 KIAS we cover a huge amount of territory, I was concerned at one stage that we would set off the Iranians on 'guard'.
Best Regards
TOD
Best Regards
TOD
Join Date: Sep 2006
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I'll do my limited best. You don't have to worry about the Iranians, it is our job to inform them that you might stray into their backyard. And they usually don't mind.
The increase in the rate of descent is to ensure you keep your spot in the stack and to make space for all the others approaching to take up the hold. If for example you are number 5 and already established in the hold at FL290, and other traffic approaches the hold at FL250, it may end up that he becomes number 5 and you, well, number 6. From the cockpit point of view it is good to stay high in the hold and conserve juice, but the higher you stay the more chances of somebody sneaking in below you. There is NO way to avoid this, as the dynamics and layout of the airspace dictates that this will occur. The best option would be to get as low as possible as soon as possible. The flipside of the above mentioned also happens. Because of the positioning and spread of traffic flying around its own arse at DESDI, you may go from #4 to #1. Then it would help to be low.
The unrestricted descent from FL280 to A100 is very situation specific and I cannot comment intelligently on it.
Start rant. Slightly off topic. If you are inbound to DESDI or BUBIN, don't for a second think that because you are presently in front of say Birdseed69, that you are going to stay in front. A lot of times the situation dictates that numbers 1, 2 and 4 run through but number 3 gets a hold to change places with number 4. This event is dictated by the DXB APP spacing requirements, there is nothing you can do about it and the best is to accept it and keep quiet. And don't play the "you are victimising us" card. The law of averages say that it will happen to EK more than the rest, for obvious reasons. And for Air Arabia: The correct readback to "route DESDI and hold" is "ABY123, route DESDI and hold", NOT "confirm hold, but we are inbound for Sharjah, are you sure?".Rant over.
Sorry for the VLP Thridle, but unfortunately their are so many factors that come into play that a short answer is a bit difficult.
The increase in the rate of descent is to ensure you keep your spot in the stack and to make space for all the others approaching to take up the hold. If for example you are number 5 and already established in the hold at FL290, and other traffic approaches the hold at FL250, it may end up that he becomes number 5 and you, well, number 6. From the cockpit point of view it is good to stay high in the hold and conserve juice, but the higher you stay the more chances of somebody sneaking in below you. There is NO way to avoid this, as the dynamics and layout of the airspace dictates that this will occur. The best option would be to get as low as possible as soon as possible. The flipside of the above mentioned also happens. Because of the positioning and spread of traffic flying around its own arse at DESDI, you may go from #4 to #1. Then it would help to be low.
The unrestricted descent from FL280 to A100 is very situation specific and I cannot comment intelligently on it.
Start rant. Slightly off topic. If you are inbound to DESDI or BUBIN, don't for a second think that because you are presently in front of say Birdseed69, that you are going to stay in front. A lot of times the situation dictates that numbers 1, 2 and 4 run through but number 3 gets a hold to change places with number 4. This event is dictated by the DXB APP spacing requirements, there is nothing you can do about it and the best is to accept it and keep quiet. And don't play the "you are victimising us" card. The law of averages say that it will happen to EK more than the rest, for obvious reasons. And for Air Arabia: The correct readback to "route DESDI and hold" is "ABY123, route DESDI and hold", NOT "confirm hold, but we are inbound for Sharjah, are you sure?".Rant over.
Sorry for the VLP Thridle, but unfortunately their are so many factors that come into play that a short answer is a bit difficult.
Last edited by BlueSkye; 12th Mar 2009 at 12:06.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Desdi Hold
And for Air Arabia: The correct readback to "route DESDI and hold" is "ABY123, route DESDI and hold", NOT "confirm hold, but we are inbound for Sharjah, are you sure?
I only had to hold once at DESDI, and that was inbound to RAK, and I had the same exchange. Normally we drift north of DESDI, and then direct to RAK.
My thanks to all the controllers in UAE DXB etc, for the excellent service they provide the small fry, Thanks.
glf
I only had to hold once at DESDI, and that was inbound to RAK, and I had the same exchange. Normally we drift north of DESDI, and then direct to RAK.
My thanks to all the controllers in UAE DXB etc, for the excellent service they provide the small fry, Thanks.
glf
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Cheers Gulfstream appreciate the feedback....
Truth is with the levels of traffic we are witnessing now in this region and in in the case of UAE, the days of ol have gone where we could always get the OMSJ or other UAE bound traffic in without delay. It has become far to hazardous on occasions to run them through or north of the stacks so they have to join the queue to ensure a safe arrival flow.
I don't think some of the operators in this region have the big picture when it comes to the capacity problems being faced in the ATC environment. The restrictions and shortfalls are often not the line controllers doing and they do the best they can with a bad situation.
With the unprecedented growth this region has experienced and with very little prior planning by the authorities to accommodate the growth, the reality is we are over extended and constantly trying to play catchup.
As horrible as it is to say (as unfortunately the welfare and careers of many have been affected) the economic downturn could be our saving grace to try and get on top of this whole palaver!!
appreciate the feedback....Truth is with the levels of traffic we are witnessing now in this region and in in the case of UAE, the days of ol have gone where we could always get the OMSJ or other UAE bound traffic in without delay. It has become far to hazardous on occasions to run them through or north of the stacks so they have to join the queue to ensure a safe arrival flow.
I don't think some of the operators in this region have the big picture when it comes to the capacity problems being faced in the ATC environment. The restrictions and shortfalls are often not the line controllers doing and they do the best they can with a bad situation.
With the unprecedented growth this region has experienced and with very little prior planning by the authorities to accommodate the growth, the reality is we are over extended and constantly trying to play catchup.
As horrible as it is to say (as unfortunately the welfare and careers of many have been affected) the economic downturn could be our saving grace to try and get on top of this whole palaver!!
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Hi,
just a heads up. Optimum altitude for holding in the B777 is approx 20,000ft. However there is not a huge amount of difference in fuel burn whilst in a holding pattern between 1500 ft and 35,000ft, only a few hundred kilos.
A heavy B773 will be minimum clean at approx 230 kts. Once we start configuring we reduce speed by 20 kts for each flap setting, i.e flap 1 210kts, flap 5 190 kts. We can then reduce to flap 15/20 and fly approx minimum 170 kts. These speeds obviously vary with aircraft weight. If you request 160 kts then we would need to lower the gear and select flap 25/30.
In EK we have to have landing flap selected by 1500 ft AGL, so 170 kts to 5 nm would work.
For Dubai, give us a dedicated delivery frequency and an approx start up time when busy. That way we can give the pax some good info on delays.
I am sure these things have all been discussed before, but i thought i would mention them again.
Other than that keep up the good work.
Rgds.
just a heads up. Optimum altitude for holding in the B777 is approx 20,000ft. However there is not a huge amount of difference in fuel burn whilst in a holding pattern between 1500 ft and 35,000ft, only a few hundred kilos.
A heavy B773 will be minimum clean at approx 230 kts. Once we start configuring we reduce speed by 20 kts for each flap setting, i.e flap 1 210kts, flap 5 190 kts. We can then reduce to flap 15/20 and fly approx minimum 170 kts. These speeds obviously vary with aircraft weight. If you request 160 kts then we would need to lower the gear and select flap 25/30.
In EK we have to have landing flap selected by 1500 ft AGL, so 170 kts to 5 nm would work.
For Dubai, give us a dedicated delivery frequency and an approx start up time when busy. That way we can give the pax some good info on delays.
I am sure these things have all been discussed before, but i thought i would mention them again.
Other than that keep up the good work.
Rgds.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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The Delivery Frequency is 120.35 and if you are delayed just ask us your number in the queue and we`ll give you our best guess. It is usually first come first served although your Company has decided some EK flights are to have priority over others. However there are some other factors that may mean that you get a different start sequence, your SID, your stand, current Flow Control restrictions and recently the weather!
There is no point calling back every 5 mins to check for an update and even less point in trying to jump the queue by changing over to Ground yourself cos you`ll just get put back to Delivery and use up more RT time.
There is no point calling back every 5 mins to check for an update and even less point in trying to jump the queue by changing over to Ground yourself cos you`ll just get put back to Delivery and use up more RT time.
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Sharjah Tower
I am anticipating an offer from SERCO soon. I am retired FAA, been out and relaxing for 2 1/2 years. Does Sharjah really require a 3 year contract? What is the penalty if a person leaves early. I was hoping to to 1 or 2 years. Seems pay is about 200K USD per year plus hosing, is that accurate?
Thanks
LL
Thanks
LL
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Sharjah
Heyy LL where did you get 200K from? You nearly made me fall of my chair with laughter especially when you mentioned plus housing!
NOONE earns that much as an operational controller here in the middle east let alone Sharjah. At best you can expect little over half of that from which you have to pay to live in some crappy accommodation.You pay a penalty for staying less generally having to pay back some of the expenses and training.
By the way have you seen your prospective workplace lately? Are you sure you want to come out of retirement for that ??????
Your call don't let me frighten you I'm sure you will enjoy it there.
NOONE earns that much as an operational controller here in the middle east let alone Sharjah. At best you can expect little over half of that from which you have to pay to live in some crappy accommodation.You pay a penalty for staying less generally having to pay back some of the expenses and training.
By the way have you seen your prospective workplace lately? Are you sure you want to come out of retirement for that ??????
Your call don't let me frighten you I'm sure you will enjoy it there.
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Don't give bad reputation for OMFJ, we are preety much open, and the weather is the best in the region, you can bet on it!
Good luck with your WX, we'll think twice weather to accept divergions, but you are free to make a call.
Good luck with your WX, we'll think twice weather to accept divergions, but you are free to make a call.
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WX
If your an autocamel driver, take my advise and ring in sick!!!! It couldn't have been comfortable...if your a controller...enjoy the days off and have a beer!!!!!