Cwmbran ATC College
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Originally Posted by niknak
hasn't Eleanor flounced off to be a very important person at Filton, dragging her bagpipes behind her?
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Chrisy,
I wouldn't hesitate to recommend BAe Cwmbran. I have been there twice and have been extremely impressed with the attitude of all of the staff (not just the instructors), and the quality of the training provided. Also, they are very receptive to any criticisms/suggestions for improvement.
The only thing I would say to you though, if you're considering a possible commute from Cardiff every day. Be prepared for a very early start if you hope to beat the M4/Newport/Cwmbran traffic and get there on time for the 0830 start! Could be difficult for the 16 weeks (minimum) that you'll be commuting for the ATC Basic and ADI courses.
If you are self-funding, I would suggest that you consider budgeting for HOTAC while you're on the course. Believe me - given the traffic in that area during morning and evening peak periods, you'll appreciate it.
The college have negotiated special discounted rates at the Holiday Inn Express just off M4/J28 in Newport, so that should make it a little bit more palatable to consider.
I know it's an extra expense that you'll probably prefer to dismiss, but take it from one who's been there: very early starts mixed with hard commuting and ATC training are not likely to lead to a successful outcome! You'll be putting yourself under a lot of unnecessary extra pressure during a time when you can ill-afford it.
Get in touch with the college themselves, as Dizzee has suggested. First-hand information is always very valuable.
Classicwings: I know somebody who has recently self-funded a Basic/ADI course at BAe, and I'm pretty sure the fees paid were nowhere near £25k. In fact, I'm certain it was much closer to £15k-£16k that was paid in the end.
Also, I know somebody else who has attended courses at both BAe and ASTAC, and who does not hesitate to recommend BAe when asked to choose.
Hope this helps.
I wouldn't hesitate to recommend BAe Cwmbran. I have been there twice and have been extremely impressed with the attitude of all of the staff (not just the instructors), and the quality of the training provided. Also, they are very receptive to any criticisms/suggestions for improvement.
The only thing I would say to you though, if you're considering a possible commute from Cardiff every day. Be prepared for a very early start if you hope to beat the M4/Newport/Cwmbran traffic and get there on time for the 0830 start! Could be difficult for the 16 weeks (minimum) that you'll be commuting for the ATC Basic and ADI courses.
If you are self-funding, I would suggest that you consider budgeting for HOTAC while you're on the course. Believe me - given the traffic in that area during morning and evening peak periods, you'll appreciate it.
The college have negotiated special discounted rates at the Holiday Inn Express just off M4/J28 in Newport, so that should make it a little bit more palatable to consider.
I know it's an extra expense that you'll probably prefer to dismiss, but take it from one who's been there: very early starts mixed with hard commuting and ATC training are not likely to lead to a successful outcome! You'll be putting yourself under a lot of unnecessary extra pressure during a time when you can ill-afford it.
Get in touch with the college themselves, as Dizzee has suggested. First-hand information is always very valuable.
Classicwings: I know somebody who has recently self-funded a Basic/ADI course at BAe, and I'm pretty sure the fees paid were nowhere near £25k. In fact, I'm certain it was much closer to £15k-£16k that was paid in the end.
Also, I know somebody else who has attended courses at both BAe and ASTAC, and who does not hesitate to recommend BAe when asked to choose.
Hope this helps.
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Thanks for your info, EastCoaster. Having obtained the prospectus for both BAe Cwmbran College and ASTAC, Cwmbran certainly seems the more professional outfit from first glance.
With regards to course costs, 16K sounds about right when I worked it out for undertaking both the UK Basic and Aerodrome (ADI) courses at Cwmbran College. However, It was only a few weeks later when i stumbled across the small print at the foot of the page which states 'Prices exclude VAT and accommodation........'
A figure closer to the 25K mark was then reached after recalculating the costs. They also state accommodation expenses are £355 per week to include Dinner, B&B at the Holiday Inn Express which also excludes VAT. I worked this out at about 6K for the 16 weeks inc VAT. Do you know if this is still the special discount rate they have with the college?
Thanking you in anticipation.
With regards to course costs, 16K sounds about right when I worked it out for undertaking both the UK Basic and Aerodrome (ADI) courses at Cwmbran College. However, It was only a few weeks later when i stumbled across the small print at the foot of the page which states 'Prices exclude VAT and accommodation........'
A figure closer to the 25K mark was then reached after recalculating the costs. They also state accommodation expenses are £355 per week to include Dinner, B&B at the Holiday Inn Express which also excludes VAT. I worked this out at about 6K for the 16 weeks inc VAT. Do you know if this is still the special discount rate they have with the college? Thanking you in anticipation.
Last edited by classicwings; 1st Jun 2008 at 13:08.
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Chaps
I do not wish to contradict what other posts say on this subject, I'm just sharing the benefit of my experience from doing my ADI course last July - September.
I was a self sponsor and fortunate enough to have an old friend who lived in the centre of Cardiff and they put me up for the 10 weeks. The drive from "home" to the college was fine at only 20 miles, the start time of 0830 kept me ahead of rush hour traffic.
Having been an ATSA at LTCC, it wasn't a particularly early start and lets face it, when you start live training you'll be keeping to shift hours anyway so 0830 start will mean a lie in.
As for not living with the other students on my course, it was not a problem. I was with a great bunch of people (you know who you are
) and went to every group study session at the hotel where sponsored students are accommodated...... and frequently passed out in their rooms
To reiterate what I and others have said on the matter of BAe's facility - the instructors and staff are fantastic, supportive, friendly and their proffesionalism can not be questioned.
The facilities are as good as any other ATC college and infact BAe are bringing their 270 degree tower simulator online shortly. I saw this in action as I finnished my course and it is very impressive.
Cointreaus all round
The Colonel
I do not wish to contradict what other posts say on this subject, I'm just sharing the benefit of my experience from doing my ADI course last July - September.
I was a self sponsor and fortunate enough to have an old friend who lived in the centre of Cardiff and they put me up for the 10 weeks. The drive from "home" to the college was fine at only 20 miles, the start time of 0830 kept me ahead of rush hour traffic.
Having been an ATSA at LTCC, it wasn't a particularly early start and lets face it, when you start live training you'll be keeping to shift hours anyway so 0830 start will mean a lie in.
As for not living with the other students on my course, it was not a problem. I was with a great bunch of people (you know who you are
) and went to every group study session at the hotel where sponsored students are accommodated...... and frequently passed out in their rooms To reiterate what I and others have said on the matter of BAe's facility - the instructors and staff are fantastic, supportive, friendly and their proffesionalism can not be questioned.
The facilities are as good as any other ATC college and infact BAe are bringing their 270 degree tower simulator online shortly. I saw this in action as I finnished my course and it is very impressive.
Cointreaus all round
The Colonel
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Classicwings
You could be right with your figures. From what I can remember, the rate that has been negotiated with the hotel is £45 per night (which includes your breakfast in the morning). If you don't live too far away or you know somebody who lives nearby, check out at weekends to reduce the cost. You literally end up living out of a suitcase though, as you can't leave all of your stuff in the hotel room because you're unlikely to get the same room the following week! Might be worth it to save £90 per week though (not to mention the £30 for the meal vouchers for Friday and Saturday evenings) .
As the hotel doesn't have a dedicated restaurant a separate arrangement has been made with the Woodpecker (at least I think that's what it's called!) next door for evening meals. These are valued at £15 per night, paid for with vouchers obtained daily from the hotel reception - obviously, the hotel bills the college for these as well.
As far as lunch goes, the college has contracted a catering firm to supply these: you place your order with the college receptionist by 10am daily (menu's at reception to help with choosing), and your lunch is delivered to the college anytime between midday and 1pm. The budget for the lunch order is somewhere in the region of £4 or £5, I think. Doesn't sound like a whole lot, I know, but believe me it's enough to get a good lunch of, say, sandwich/baked potato, crisps, fruit salad and a couple of cans of soft drink. I think they might require COD from self-funding students though, so be prepared to have to pay when your order arrives.
There are a couple of water chillers in the students' common room, so I wouldn't waste the allowance buying bottled water (bring your own bottle and just keep refilling it), and there are snack and soft drinks vending machines also. There is a kitchenette with kettles and a fridge for students' use, but you'll need to bring your own tea/coffee, milk and sugar.
You could be right with your figures. From what I can remember, the rate that has been negotiated with the hotel is £45 per night (which includes your breakfast in the morning). If you don't live too far away or you know somebody who lives nearby, check out at weekends to reduce the cost. You literally end up living out of a suitcase though, as you can't leave all of your stuff in the hotel room because you're unlikely to get the same room the following week! Might be worth it to save £90 per week though (not to mention the £30 for the meal vouchers for Friday and Saturday evenings) .
As the hotel doesn't have a dedicated restaurant a separate arrangement has been made with the Woodpecker (at least I think that's what it's called!) next door for evening meals. These are valued at £15 per night, paid for with vouchers obtained daily from the hotel reception - obviously, the hotel bills the college for these as well.
As far as lunch goes, the college has contracted a catering firm to supply these: you place your order with the college receptionist by 10am daily (menu's at reception to help with choosing), and your lunch is delivered to the college anytime between midday and 1pm. The budget for the lunch order is somewhere in the region of £4 or £5, I think. Doesn't sound like a whole lot, I know, but believe me it's enough to get a good lunch of, say, sandwich/baked potato, crisps, fruit salad and a couple of cans of soft drink. I think they might require COD from self-funding students though, so be prepared to have to pay when your order arrives.
There are a couple of water chillers in the students' common room, so I wouldn't waste the allowance buying bottled water (bring your own bottle and just keep refilling it), and there are snack and soft drinks vending machines also. There is a kitchenette with kettles and a fridge for students' use, but you'll need to bring your own tea/coffee, milk and sugar.
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EastCoaster
Thanks for your info concerning the domestic side of the college facilities/ arrangements. As I am not local to the South Wales area coming from Cambs this is very useful for me to know before reaching into my pocket for my cheque book.......
More of interest to me at the moment before making my decision to attend the college however are the prospects of finding suitable employment on completion of the course. As I am not currently an Assistant working at an aerodrome I will be approaching (non- NATS) ATC units to commence on the job training from fresh - hopefully armed with a student ATCO licence. I am just wondering if the staff at Cwmbran College are good at advising you on suitable opportunities/openings at regional aerodromes/airports or is this something they expect you to pursue yourself?
Did you have an ATC background prior to attending the college or did you come into the profession new yourself? Also I am aware that they hold Aptitude testing days which are around the £350 mark to attend. I'm led to believe this is a highly recommended exercise to undertake if you have little or no ATC experience, and it also gives you a chance to have a look round the college facilities. Did you attend this test day?
Thanx again,
Classic Wings.
Thanks for your info concerning the domestic side of the college facilities/ arrangements. As I am not local to the South Wales area coming from Cambs this is very useful for me to know before reaching into my pocket for my cheque book.......
More of interest to me at the moment before making my decision to attend the college however are the prospects of finding suitable employment on completion of the course. As I am not currently an Assistant working at an aerodrome I will be approaching (non- NATS) ATC units to commence on the job training from fresh - hopefully armed with a student ATCO licence. I am just wondering if the staff at Cwmbran College are good at advising you on suitable opportunities/openings at regional aerodromes/airports or is this something they expect you to pursue yourself?
Did you have an ATC background prior to attending the college or did you come into the profession new yourself? Also I am aware that they hold Aptitude testing days which are around the £350 mark to attend. I'm led to believe this is a highly recommended exercise to undertake if you have little or no ATC experience, and it also gives you a chance to have a look round the college facilities. Did you attend this test day?
Thanx again,
Classic Wings.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niknak
hasn't Eleanor flounced off to be a very important person at Filton, dragging her bagpipes behind her?
Not since last week when she was seen at the college by some of the current students there.
Originally Posted by niknak
hasn't Eleanor flounced off to be a very important person at Filton, dragging her bagpipes behind her?
Not since last week when she was seen at the college by some of the current students there.
Fred
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The only thing I would say about the aptitude tests are that they are run by the same company who then takes the money off you for the course, not sure they are going to be massively useful as they are a business after all!
Incidentally it's the dragonfly not the woodpecker, if it actually matters!
Incidentally it's the dragonfly not the woodpecker, if it actually matters!
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I cannot agree with the colonel more. I have been in the same position and took some good advice from him. I went to ASTAC which was mainly due to the timing of the courses than anything else as I done it on annual leave.
From what i heard of Cwmbran and my experience at ASTAC i dont think there is much difference between them, ASTAC also have a 270 degree sim due to go live and the instructors and staff were helpful and supportive too.
ASTAC also run a sponsorship scheme where they will pay for your ADI rating. You have to work as a blippy for a bit before hand, however if you have no previous experience this might be worthwhile to get a feel for the job. I dont think the pay is great tho.
From what i heard of Cwmbran and my experience at ASTAC i dont think there is much difference between them, ASTAC also have a 270 degree sim due to go live and the instructors and staff were helpful and supportive too.
ASTAC also run a sponsorship scheme where they will pay for your ADI rating. You have to work as a blippy for a bit before hand, however if you have no previous experience this might be worthwhile to get a feel for the job. I dont think the pay is great tho.
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Classicwings,
Apologies for the delay in responding to your question, been a bit mad here the last few days!!
I was already a qualified controller when I first attended the college in Cwmbran, so I'm afraid I can't answer your questions from any experience of my own. I do, however, know one or two people who have done the Aptitude test and have found it very useful, although it was employer-sponsored!
Regarding finding work placement for post-course OJT, don't expect the college staff to do the running around for you. Internet facilities are provided in the Students' Common Room (although connectivity can be a bit hit-and-miss; and there's always a queue for the use of any of the 3 PCs at peak times, i.e. during scheduled breaks) as well as industry journals and magazines. Don't forget, you're likely to be on the course with students from all over the country, so there'll always be someone with a bit of insider info/gossip that could be worth following up on. Also, as invariably happens, if anyone hears about any possibility of positions becoming available, that info usually finds it's way to those who are in the market.
Basically though, the onus is on you to help yourself where finding a position is concerned. So get your list of SATCOs/MATs out and starting firing off those CVs and letters of application. You will get some assistance from the staff and other students, but don't forget that they have other responsibilities.
I'll put it this way: of the two courses that were running last time I was there (probably somewhere in the region of 24 or so students, of whom a large number were self-sponsoring, and not just ex-mil types) I think only two individuals finished the course(s) without a firm offer of employment and completion of training. I'm almost positive that has now been reduced to one, and it's not that long since I was there.
You'll only get out of it though what you're willing to put in.
Good luck
P.S. If you have a Wi-Fi enabled laptop, bring it with you. The college will provide you with the password for their public network so that you can access the internet to hunt for those jobs from the classroom or the common room, without having to try and beat the rush for the PCs! Connection speeds are perfectly sufficient for general browsing and emailing, but don't try to hog the bandwidth by trying to download large files or watch any streaming media! Wouldn't be very fair on the other network users, and I'm not sure the system could handle it!
Apologies for the delay in responding to your question, been a bit mad here the last few days!!
I was already a qualified controller when I first attended the college in Cwmbran, so I'm afraid I can't answer your questions from any experience of my own. I do, however, know one or two people who have done the Aptitude test and have found it very useful, although it was employer-sponsored!
Regarding finding work placement for post-course OJT, don't expect the college staff to do the running around for you. Internet facilities are provided in the Students' Common Room (although connectivity can be a bit hit-and-miss; and there's always a queue for the use of any of the 3 PCs at peak times, i.e. during scheduled breaks) as well as industry journals and magazines. Don't forget, you're likely to be on the course with students from all over the country, so there'll always be someone with a bit of insider info/gossip that could be worth following up on. Also, as invariably happens, if anyone hears about any possibility of positions becoming available, that info usually finds it's way to those who are in the market.
Basically though, the onus is on you to help yourself where finding a position is concerned. So get your list of SATCOs/MATs out and starting firing off those CVs and letters of application. You will get some assistance from the staff and other students, but don't forget that they have other responsibilities.
I'll put it this way: of the two courses that were running last time I was there (probably somewhere in the region of 24 or so students, of whom a large number were self-sponsoring, and not just ex-mil types) I think only two individuals finished the course(s) without a firm offer of employment and completion of training. I'm almost positive that has now been reduced to one, and it's not that long since I was there.
You'll only get out of it though what you're willing to put in.
Good luck
P.S. If you have a Wi-Fi enabled laptop, bring it with you. The college will provide you with the password for their public network so that you can access the internet to hunt for those jobs from the classroom or the common room, without having to try and beat the rush for the PCs! Connection speeds are perfectly sufficient for general browsing and emailing, but don't try to hog the bandwidth by trying to download large files or watch any streaming media! Wouldn't be very fair on the other network users, and I'm not sure the system could handle it!
Last edited by EastCoaster; 11th Jun 2008 at 00:27.
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ATC College
I've been to both the NATS college in Bournemouth and the Bae college in Wales.
My advice is that the college is unimportant, if you really want to be an Air Traffic Controller you need to go where ever is needed and take whatever **** they give you to get that yellow license. There is only one person who can get you a license and that's you, not your intructor, mentor or course mates.
If it's what you want to do get your application in to NATS or try to get a job as an assistant at a regional airport. Local (non NATS) airports sometimes employ local youngsters and train them as they are more likely to stay. My employer uses the NATS apptitude tests and interviews for its trainee selection
I'm not sure paying for your own Aerodrome endorsement will get you any closer to being employed as you're still unproven and will only have obtained a sizeable debt. If anything being an assistant first will help improve your technical knowledge and be more useful.
My advice is that the college is unimportant, if you really want to be an Air Traffic Controller you need to go where ever is needed and take whatever **** they give you to get that yellow license. There is only one person who can get you a license and that's you, not your intructor, mentor or course mates.
If it's what you want to do get your application in to NATS or try to get a job as an assistant at a regional airport. Local (non NATS) airports sometimes employ local youngsters and train them as they are more likely to stay. My employer uses the NATS apptitude tests and interviews for its trainee selection
I'm not sure paying for your own Aerodrome endorsement will get you any closer to being employed as you're still unproven and will only have obtained a sizeable debt. If anything being an assistant first will help improve your technical knowledge and be more useful.
