Airservices Australia Psychometric Testing
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Thanks for clearing that up, plazbot.
Easy as it is to fail, I was a bit concerned that it was that easy.
The impression I was left with was that it basically all came down to your sim instructor and that if you appealed it still ended up back with the same instructor who had already formed their opinion of you.
Obviously there was beer involved at the bbq, and it may well have coloured this bloke's recollection of the events.
Easy as it is to fail, I was a bit concerned that it was that easy.
The impression I was left with was that it basically all came down to your sim instructor and that if you appealed it still ended up back with the same instructor who had already formed their opinion of you.
Obviously there was beer involved at the bbq, and it may well have coloured this bloke's recollection of the events.
In the field, your Instructor has no say in you passing or failing anything beyond the knowledge they transfer to you. What they will do is tell the CSS/WPA how you are going and if they think you are ready for a check. A number of years ago on leaving the college you were given firm dates for your sim final and progress as well as On The Job progress and final. These were set in stone and you did the checks then, oon that day, no questions asked. If you got through, you continued.
The simulator phase is a course that is delivered straight out of a training manual that every group has based around the sector specific stuff that you don't already know coming from the college and the TAAATS bridging course.
Your Instructor will be able to show you this as it is a controlled document and as a registered training organisation, Airservices has a requirement to have this process in place. Having written 3 myself, I can assuure you they are very thorough and there is a very consistent base of information they are built from. What you may find is that the actual content may not be up to date as some groups have staff issues and can't release people for the constant updating of callsigns, references and the like but the general bones will remain the same. The sim phhase is very regimented but the OTJ part is very much all over the shop and it does take some effort by you to see traffic and not dodge the hard situations. I have seeen trainees doing hour on, hour off and either bomb their check of get found out very soon afer rating with an incident.
Wiith the 'usual' process of Critical Milestones, if you failed either final check, they would consider a 2 cycle extension then another final. Fail that and you were gone. The last few years that have coincided with the recent staff shortages
, the final check for abinitios has been a case of doing it when the Instructor thinks they are ready. There have been a few of late that were checked with some doubt but their OTJ component had been way inexcess of the usual allowance in days of full staffing. Most who fail at the moment are being sent to other groups to have another crack if they show that they may have the ability to get up eventually in a different environment (radar V procedural and vice versa) and there have been a few that have been successful and some that have not. It certainly is a very new concept and I would anticipate that as the staff numbers approach what is required, these types of second chances will dry up as well.
For all you read on this web site about Airservices failings, you can be pretty comfortable that the standard of training you will receive in the field is top notch and everybody WANTS you to pass. The more bodies the better from every body's perspective. It is up to you and your ability as to the outcome.
The simulator phase is a course that is delivered straight out of a training manual that every group has based around the sector specific stuff that you don't already know coming from the college and the TAAATS bridging course.
Your Instructor will be able to show you this as it is a controlled document and as a registered training organisation, Airservices has a requirement to have this process in place. Having written 3 myself, I can assuure you they are very thorough and there is a very consistent base of information they are built from. What you may find is that the actual content may not be up to date as some groups have staff issues and can't release people for the constant updating of callsigns, references and the like but the general bones will remain the same. The sim phhase is very regimented but the OTJ part is very much all over the shop and it does take some effort by you to see traffic and not dodge the hard situations. I have seeen trainees doing hour on, hour off and either bomb their check of get found out very soon afer rating with an incident.
Wiith the 'usual' process of Critical Milestones, if you failed either final check, they would consider a 2 cycle extension then another final. Fail that and you were gone. The last few years that have coincided with the recent staff shortages
, the final check for abinitios has been a case of doing it when the Instructor thinks they are ready. There have been a few of late that were checked with some doubt but their OTJ component had been way inexcess of the usual allowance in days of full staffing. Most who fail at the moment are being sent to other groups to have another crack if they show that they may have the ability to get up eventually in a different environment (radar V procedural and vice versa) and there have been a few that have been successful and some that have not. It certainly is a very new concept and I would anticipate that as the staff numbers approach what is required, these types of second chances will dry up as well.For all you read on this web site about Airservices failings, you can be pretty comfortable that the standard of training you will receive in the field is top notch and everybody WANTS you to pass. The more bodies the better from every body's perspective. It is up to you and your ability as to the outcome.
enemyMiG, in addition to what Plaz has said, there are only a couple of reasons he would have been in the sim during the final stages of his training.
There was a major aspect of what constitutes normal ops that wasn't seen during OJT - luck of the draw or some external factor such as long term closure of military airspace during the training & the instructor wanted to ensure he'd seen how to handle it.
Or, given the fact he was terminated, there was a major deficiency in his controlling & he'd made the same mistake repeatedly. In such circumstances the sim is used to specifically test that deficiency by demonstrating you can correctly handle it (or not). You aren't expected to be perfect but must be handling the basics competently & the odder stuff at least safely.
There was a major aspect of what constitutes normal ops that wasn't seen during OJT - luck of the draw or some external factor such as long term closure of military airspace during the training & the instructor wanted to ensure he'd seen how to handle it.
Or, given the fact he was terminated, there was a major deficiency in his controlling & he'd made the same mistake repeatedly. In such circumstances the sim is used to specifically test that deficiency by demonstrating you can correctly handle it (or not). You aren't expected to be perfect but must be handling the basics competently & the odder stuff at least safely.
Thanks for your views Plazbot, I think you've almost gone close to answering my question, which boiled down to, assuming the course is top notch and a person passes (like C-change), what exactly is it about it being "up to you and your ability" that determines the outcome. What qualities and abilities exactly (that are additional to those required in progressing through the course) could make the difference between getting rated vs. getting booted out??
le Pingouin you seemed to suggest either bad luck or a "major deficiency in his controlling" might be the issue - surely such a thing would stop you getting through the course successfully in the first place, wouldn't it? And if it's just bad luck then that sounds very troubling indeed! 
Or maybe you were only talking about the end of the course rather than the field training???
Or maybe you were only talking about the end of the course rather than the field training???
You pass or fail the college based on exams - effectively get it right for 90 minutes (or however long the sim exams are) & you pass. On the job you're being assessed all the time, so it's over many, many hours, as well as a check shifts. The college only brings you up to a basic standard so there is plenty of scope for holes to remain undiscovered.
I don't want to "risk the lives of hundreds of people" either, but I'm doing that right now. The thing is I also don't want to "waste a couple of years of my life" before I find out that's what I might end up doing. There seems to be some murkiness about C-change's story that troubles me... and I'd be very grateful if anyone can make that murkiness go away. 
For better or worse Blippy there are no guarantees. You pays ya money & you takes ya chances.
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My personal opinion after 12 years in two countries is that it mostly comes down to some sort of natural ability. For those that it doesn't come naturally, they still can do the job but maybe it takes a bit more work. It is a bit of a weird job like that.
Any others like to comment on that?
Any others like to comment on that?
That sounds a fair summation Baileys.
The way I see ATC is a balance of conflicting demands - flexibility & strict rules, intelligence & boredom, confidence without overdoing it. If you don't have the right balance ATC will be more of a struggle & that's something you either have or not, it can't be learnt.
The way I see ATC is a balance of conflicting demands - flexibility & strict rules, intelligence & boredom, confidence without overdoing it. If you don't have the right balance ATC will be more of a struggle & that's something you either have or not, it can't be learnt.
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Another possibly laughable question, hows the holidays/ time off in the first year of training. I imagine the supervisors are very busy over the holiday periods so wonder if the academy has a bit of time off.
You get breaks between 'Phases'. I am not certain how it is still arranged but you do the forst 6 or so weeks of pure theory, have a week off, do sim which I think is these days broken into basic and advanced or something with a week off and a week off after that. The actual day length may vary. In those times between phases you will also go onto field famil so the breaks are a couple of weeks. They try and have you come out of the college to the field with no rec leave liability. As for taking a couple of weeks where you see fit, don't count on it, the course is not going to wait for you.
This of courrse may be different but this is what I gather from the people drifting through from the college of late. I think you will only get 5 weeks leave as you are not working doggos.
As a trainee, you will be 'Stood down' over any public holidays meaning you do not get the extra pay that you would if you worked it or were rostered as OFF and you will also have the Chhristmas Standown as described below available to you. This means you take a couple of days rec and have the whole lot off.
mikepom, I would not go booking flights just yet.
This of courrse may be different but this is what I gather from the people drifting through from the college of late. I think you will only get 5 weeks leave as you are not working doggos.
As a trainee, you will be 'Stood down' over any public holidays meaning you do not get the extra pay that you would if you worked it or were rostered as OFF and you will also have the Chhristmas Standown as described below available to you. This means you take a couple of days rec and have the whole lot off.
mikepom, I would not go booking flights just yet.
Join Date: Apr 2009
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You get breaks between 'Phases'. I am not certain how it is still arranged but you do the forst 6 or so weeks of pure theory, have a week off, do sim which I think is these days broken into basic and advanced or something with a week off and a week off after that. The actual day length may vary. In those times between phases you will also go onto field famil so the breaks are a couple of weeks. They try and have you come out of the college to the field with no rec leave liability. As for taking a couple of weeks where you see fit, don't count on it, the course is not going to wait for you.
This of courrse may be different but this is what I gather from the people drifting through from the college of late. I think you will only get 5 weeks leave as you are not working doggos.
As a trainee, you will be 'Stood down' over any public holidays meaning you do not get the extra pay that you would if you worked it or were rostered as OFF and you will also have the Chhristmas Standown as described below available to you. This means you take a couple of days rec and have the whole lot off.
mikepom, I would not go booking flights just yet.
This of courrse may be different but this is what I gather from the people drifting through from the college of late. I think you will only get 5 weeks leave as you are not working doggos.
As a trainee, you will be 'Stood down' over any public holidays meaning you do not get the extra pay that you would if you worked it or were rostered as OFF and you will also have the Chhristmas Standown as described below available to you. This means you take a couple of days rec and have the whole lot off.
mikepom, I would not go booking flights just yet.
You will get all public holidays off while at the college, They have done away with the couple of weeks of field famil, you now have to organise this yourself in spare time. There is no longer any break between phases.
The only time you will get off other than the public holidays is a few days of rec leave to complete the ~10-14 christmas stand down.
Depending on sim slots in the field you will most likely get a week between finishing at the college and starting in the field (you may have quite a lot more time available for leave
).While at the college you only accrue 4 weeks of leave per year as it is only day shift, they do not seem to have a problem with you having a leave balance when you come over.
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Does that mean i only get 1 week if i'm moving from melbourne course to brisbane centre?
I'm not sure but I think they only need to give you 3 business days.
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While we are on the topic of questions, does the college use AIP's, CAO and CAR's or are there separate documents used?
Just wondering whether it is worthwhile palming my set off.
Cheers
Just wondering whether it is worthwhile palming my set off.
Cheers
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Not so sure about the time between College and Field training but as for trainees, we had to use a Rec Day for a 4 day weekend for the Melb Cup. We used a few more days for Xmas (our last day was Tue 22nd and we were back last Monday - 4th). Other than that it's just public holidays. No breaks between phases, straight into the next one. There is a day or 2 for an airline attachment but that's about it. I wouldn't plan on too many consecutive days off. We had a guy on our course away for 4 consecutive days for medical reasons, he missed 2 exams and was shown the door (partly his decision I think but he was on thin ice anyway). He was only there for 12 days I think. Apparently in the past they have slotted people into later courses if they fell too far behind but because the following courses are booked up for so long it wasn't an option this time.
The College supplies all trainees with an updated copy of AIP and MATS (as well as other resources). They get updated continually. As for ERSA, we have a class copy only.
The College supplies all trainees with an updated copy of AIP and MATS (as well as other resources). They get updated continually. As for ERSA, we have a class copy only.