Airservices Australia Psychometric Testing
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 36
Likes: 1
From: Melbourne
AFAIK QLK use D in the callsign when it's a DH8D (400 series). Sure it's saved the ass of plenty of controllers who may have inadvertently stuck it in behind an A or C.
My guess is Virgin do similar to indicate when it's one of their ATRs for much the same reason..
My guess is Virgin do similar to indicate when it's one of their ATRs for much the same reason..
Joined: May 2009
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From: YMML
Director does the spacing for parallel runway ops. It's a console position and aircraft transfer from director to tower.
Whispr is right. "A" ATR, "D" Dash8 Delta due to significant performance differences.
Whispr is right. "A" ATR, "D" Dash8 Delta due to significant performance differences.
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: YBBN
Rellim you may not get a confirming email for up to 4-6 weeks after, but they will tell you either way (pass / fail). If you think you've slipped through the cracks, you can always give them a call to see what's happening.
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 19
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From: YBBN
Two More Questions
WhisperSYD / Le Pingouin,
Is it a procedural requirement for all DH8 & the other 'A' type Velocity aircraft to have the respective 'D' & 'A' suffix to their call sign? Or do they sometimes not?
And my second question... I was originally always thinking of opting for Area / En-Route Control, if I'm successful in my ASA application, but have recently been swayed towards Tower Control.
Can anyone offer some insight & opinion into what each role is like?
How hectic is Tower Control VS En-Route?
Has anyone done both & enjoyed one more than the other?
Cheers,
SDC
Is it a procedural requirement for all DH8 & the other 'A' type Velocity aircraft to have the respective 'D' & 'A' suffix to their call sign? Or do they sometimes not?
And my second question... I was originally always thinking of opting for Area / En-Route Control, if I'm successful in my ASA application, but have recently been swayed towards Tower Control.
Can anyone offer some insight & opinion into what each role is like?
How hectic is Tower Control VS En-Route?
Has anyone done both & enjoyed one more than the other?
Cheers,
SDC
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: Perth
Just a question out of curiosity to anyone who may be able to answer...I noticed an ASA ad for SSO recruitment to be based in Perth. Has there always been sim training in WA, or is this a new development?
Not applying for it (currently in the middle of the lengthy ATC recruitment process), but was just wondering what the deal is, since I thought all training was in MEL and BNE
Not applying for it (currently in the middle of the lengthy ATC recruitment process), but was just wondering what the deal is, since I thought all training was in MEL and BNE
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,845
Likes: 21
From: YMML
SDC, not exactly sure how the addition of "A" and "D" is arranged (presumably the airline planning sections looks after it) but I don't recall it being stuffed up.
I've never worked tower, but I've spent enough hours watching to know both en-route and tower can have their moments. Both operate along the lines of "90% boredom, 10% terror" plus or minus.
Many of the towers aren't 24 hour operations (regional, secondary, GAAP) so if you go tower you may not work night shifts but may be posted all over the countryside. Whereas if you go en-route you'll work nights eventually (once you have enough ratings) but will stay in Melbourne or Brisbane.
I've never worked tower, but I've spent enough hours watching to know both en-route and tower can have their moments. Both operate along the lines of "90% boredom, 10% terror" plus or minus.
Many of the towers aren't 24 hour operations (regional, secondary, GAAP) so if you go tower you may not work night shifts but may be posted all over the countryside. Whereas if you go en-route you'll work nights eventually (once you have enough ratings) but will stay in Melbourne or Brisbane.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,845
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From: YMML
JLS, the basic courses are run in Melbourne and Brisbane but there are also simulators in the Melbourne and Brisbane centres, and assorted TCUs to provide sector specific training, other generic training, testing new procedures and software. Basically any time you train for a new sector, whether you're fresh out of the college or gained your first rating 20 years ago, you need to pass a simulator course before being unleashed on the flying public for on-the-job training with real aeroplanes.
Joined: Nov 2001
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 538
Likes: 1
From: Oz
For those going to Approach or Tower, please learn your aircraft types.
DH8D is a Dash 8 400, not Dash 8 Delta
AT45 is an ATR42, 500 series
If it is some rarely used type in your area, I can understand controllers getting it wrong. As against a supposed professional showing their ignorance for regularly operated types.
DH8D is a Dash 8 400, not Dash 8 Delta
AT45 is an ATR42, 500 series
If it is some rarely used type in your area, I can understand controllers getting it wrong. As against a supposed professional showing their ignorance for regularly operated types.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 136
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From: The World
For those going to Approach or Tower, please learn your aircraft types.
DH8D is a Dash 8 400, not Dash 8 Delta
AT45 is an ATR42, 500 series
If it is some rarely used type in your area, I can understand controllers getting it wrong. As against a supposed professional showing their ignorance for regularly operated types.
DH8D is a Dash 8 400, not Dash 8 Delta
AT45 is an ATR42, 500 series
If it is some rarely used type in your area, I can understand controllers getting it wrong. As against a supposed professional showing their ignorance for regularly operated types.
Actual real world scenario:
ATC: ABC confirm aircraft type
Pilot: ABC Dash8D
A pilot will refer to the ICAO code not the actual type.
Another example B777-300ER has the ICAO code B77W and that is what pilots will use.
Last edited by west atc; 1st May 2014 at 04:35.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,845
Likes: 21
From: YMML
Yeah, I'm a dinosaur and like to use names that actually mean something. I still do arrivals, even though that ceased to exist 15+ years ago.
As to aircraft types - in the centre we generally refer to a DH8D as a "Delta". The Virgin ATRs as "ATRs". I'd argue it's far more important to know performance characteristics based on the ICAO aircraft code than knowing what the manufacturer's model designation is. One will help you to separate aircraft, the other will not.
As to aircraft types - in the centre we generally refer to a DH8D as a "Delta". The Virgin ATRs as "ATRs". I'd argue it's far more important to know performance characteristics based on the ICAO aircraft code than knowing what the manufacturer's model designation is. One will help you to separate aircraft, the other will not.
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: YBBN
Rellim,
Great news!
My only advice for the phone interview would be to have a good read through the position description & requirements for ATC on the ASA website.
Don't stress too much. The phone interview isn't too onerous.
Great news!
My only advice for the phone interview would be to have a good read through the position description & requirements for ATC on the ASA website.
Don't stress too much. The phone interview isn't too onerous.
Joined: Nov 2001
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 538
Likes: 1
From: Oz
You know what they say, a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.
ATC: ABC confirm aircraft type
Pilot: ABC Dash8D
A pilot will refer to the ICAO code not the actual type
ATC: ABC confirm aircraft type
Pilot: ABC Dash8D
A pilot will refer to the ICAO code not the actual type
I am talking about using acft type to give info to a lightie.
"Follow the AT45". What does the low time C172 pilot look for: low/high wing, number of engines etc. If you say "follow the ATR42", they will probably have a much better idea
My comment made with 35 years ATC experience, hopefully there is a little bit of knowledge there.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
From: The World
My comment made with 35 years ATC experience, hopefully there is a little bit of knowledge there.
Joined: Nov 2001
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 538
Likes: 1
From: Oz
Would it not be better though to say follow the Dash 8 in the context of a low hours pilot as all series look pretty similar in the air?
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Always thought the D suffix was used for significantly delayed flights, to potentially avoid having two flights airborne with the same flight number at the same time. Pretty sure that is ICAOs guidance.
As for the D being used in the flight number to indicate that it is a DH8D and therefore a different wake turbulence player than the A, B and C models, surely simply knowing that a D is greater than 25000kg MTOW, as most professionals in this occupation should, will suffice. 
Anyway, long time lurker, first time poster. Nice to be on board.
As for the D being used in the flight number to indicate that it is a DH8D and therefore a different wake turbulence player than the A, B and C models, surely simply knowing that a D is greater than 25000kg MTOW, as most professionals in this occupation should, will suffice.
Anyway, long time lurker, first time poster. Nice to be on board.