Go around at LHR

[george1001]

Hi,

On short final to 09R. An aircraft is still on the runway and has started the take off roll. Things look a bit tight. ATC instruct a go around.

What would happen next ?

Would the aircraft on the roll be instructed to stop ?

Would the aircraft on very short final be given a quick amended go around clearance (instead of going straight ahead as published) i.e a sharp right turn ?

Kind regards, and apologies if this question has already been asked a million times before

George

[Dozza2k]

they use one runway for t/o and one for landing unless it gets very busy so that situation is rare, i.e a g/a on a runway with one already on the roll. I've never seen it and I've been there a few years.

[point5]

have seen this twice in 6 years on easterlies. we try not to stop the outbound once it has commenced its take off roll. if you do this you are asking for trouble - hot breaks, burst tyres, lose the runway! the missed approach for 09R takes the aircraft straight ahead to 3000ft so to avoid the 'piggy back' scenario, an early right turn is initiated. theres a lot of airspace to play with to the south.

[anotherthing]

theres a lot of airspace to play with to the south

Said like a true tower man!!

[Gonzo]

.....and given that there won't be anything immediately to the north, then giving one or other a shallow turn to something like 070 (or something more drastic if able) could be an option.

Or of course there's always the 'Land Under' clearance!

[120.4]

In a mixed-mode environment ADC must be given airspace to resolve the confliction - And so if the same occurred on 27R you would...? (Helicopters at Sipson, WU departure or go-around?)

At Gatwick an immediate turn of not less than 45degrees was the norm. I know of plenty that went down Crawley high street at not many feet.

.4

[anotherthing]

120.4

The airspace is already there in the confines of the RMA if conducted at the correct altitude and in collaboration with DIR. There aint enough airspace outside the current RMA to give it away - certainly not on a permanent basis - tactically, possibly

[pax britanica]

if no one minds prompts me to aska couple of questions

1 Iwas at twickenham for the Barbarians-S Africa game on Dec 1 and during second half a 777 hurtles over the stadium heading SW-I thought it was a 09 departure but leaving the ground 15 mins later and all during the game LHR appeared to be on westerlies. I assume this was a sort of broken off approach rather thana go around but hadnt seen it before in spite of spending alot of time in that area

A week before in Staines another 777 appears to pass over the Shortwood comon area again heading SW- they are on westerlies that day as virtually everything is visible from Staines

Again it seemed a very early break off from the runway heading. I have seen lots of go arounds from Heathrow, been on board twice too, and they always seem to maintain RW heading failry well past the airport boundary before turning left and then left again for Epsom/Ockham

Knowing just how tightly you folks pack them in on the approach Iwondered if it was now normal to get a/c going around out of the 'stream' as quickly as possible
Thanks
PB

[120.4]

Hi anotherthing.

Not sure I understand what you meant - please help me.

My point was that in mixed-mode, if traffic goes around from 1nm 27R, piggy back on top of a departure rolling ahead of him, he needs at least 45degrees right immediately, not at 0 DME or when passing 1,500ft. I once observed a B747 on the roll, 1000m down 26L at Gatwick with a DC10 at 0.5nm. In this situation 20 or 30 degrees left was not sufficient - it was left immediately 180. Flip that through 180degrees. Imagine turning onto 360 from 0.5nm 27R?

Even if you accepted 320degrees from 1DME where the go-around might start his turn and climb from 300ft to 3,000ft. I'd say traffic holding at Sipson or a departure or go-around from Northolt would be a direct confliction to such a go-around. I am firmly of the opinion that in mixed-mode ADC must be given significant room to resolve such conflicts and the existing 27R missed approach is not good enough.

.4 ?

[anotherthing]

It was in repli to point 5's point about there being plenty of space to the south. although there is not the immediate problem of the otherway i.e. Northolt to the north, there is no need for any extension of the RMA - it would not solve anything north of Heathrow and would create problems south of it

[120.4]

With you, thanks

.4

[Captain Spunkfarter]

Point 5
"if you do this you are asking for trouble - hot breaks..."
I suggest you turn the heating down in the rest room, or wear loose-fitting underpants if you want to avoid this scenario.

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by Dozza2k

they use one runway for t/o and one for landing unless it gets very busy so that situation is rare

Every morning between 0600 and 0700 Heathrow uses both runways for landing, mixing in some of the early departures, as there are a high number of intercontinental landers at this time after the night quota curfew comes off and not much demand for departures.

[Gonzo]

....and 09R SRO is a pig. Especially from 0600-0700 when all the heavies are landing, some reluctant to use any reverse.

[Pontius]

a g/a on a runway with one already on the roll. I've never seen it and I've been there a few years.

Dozza2K,

You don't recall the British Midland v British Airways occassion on 09R then? I thought this was quite well documented at the time.

some reluctant to use any reverse

Gonzo,

Reverse thrust does very little but help to keep the brakes cool(er). The autobrake function, as used by just about evry one of the 'heavies' to which you refer, selects a rate of braking which is maintained until the autobrakes are deselected (with feet or fingers). So, given a particular landing speed and braking rate, one can calculate which turn-off should be made (but doesn't allow for the flypast and touchdown halfway down the runway). By chucking in reverse thrust all that happens is the brakes have to work a little less to achieve the same braking rate, so the temperatures stay down a bit. Using reverse makes no difference to the rollout distance if the autobrakes are left on, although it does look better when the runway's wet and it kicks up lots of local fog

So, what you want is the amazingly talented, good looking and underpaid pilots to use a higher autobrake setting and they'll make the exit you were hoping they would

[Gonzo]

I defer to your experience, but in my experience of innumerable D1, M0 and Night shifts at Heathrow, heavies are far more likely to roll long on landing before 0700. I believe the AIP actually says that use of reverse thrust before 0700 local should be minimised conversant with operational safety.

Luckily on 09R with the T4 noise restrictions, most BA heavies know that they have to come off at S4 otherwise they'll be vacating left. Even then they take an age to get off there (understandable, because it's a 140 turn off the runway).

amazingly talented, good looking and underpaid pilots

So you're saying the people I often escort on a tour of the tower are imposters????

[120.4]

Ouch!

Point 4

[Pontius]

So you're saying the people I often escort on a tour of the tower are imposters????

Hard....but fair I used to enjoy tower visits when I was on shorthaul airport standby. An excellent way to pass the time, meet the peeps in the fish tank and learn more about the LHR operations (and LGW too). I haven't yet been to your new tower but will once you've got it all properly built and take away those bit of string holding it up

As for BA heavies rolling long, you'll probably find it happens as much as poss on both the 09s (once the work at the 27R threshold is completed of course). Parking on the Deltas for T1 or, T4 from both runways, means a bit less phaffing and getting lost during daylight hours by staying on the runway and avoiding the taxiways Of course, come T5, in addition to the end of world poverty, cancer, terrorist attacks and everything else that will be cured by the opening of it, I think you'll see a lot more long rollouts on the westerlies (don't know about 27 North though)

Okay, I'll leave you chaps in peace again and concentrate on my alter-ego as a millionaire sex god

[Gonzo]

I think you'll see a lot more long rollouts on the westerlies (don't know about 27 North though)

The RET is the optimum point to vacate both westerly runways for T5. I believe this will be stressed to BA in the briefings. On 09L, rolling you helps both us and you. On 27L and 27R, it doesn't really help us.