Dubai ATC
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Dubai ATC
Yesterday I had a very rude reply from a Dubai controller when, after committing to an alternate, I decided to land at the destination (rapid increase in visibility). Are they usually like that or did an overfrustrated, undersexed resident of heavenly Dubai just have a bad day?
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As a controller in the UK I have seen this situation before.Aircraft divert due to the Vis below Cat 1 limits and then the vis increases.I have told the pilot the improved vis,but they always continue to divert.They must be on diversion fuel by then.Quite often the RVR has gone down again,so if they got caught up in any more holding,it could develop into an emergency situation with fuel shortage.
Not condoning rude R/t which is always unprofessional.
Not condoning rude R/t which is always unprofessional.
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Undersexed controllers?
No mate,its not the lack of sex or the frustrating Dubai road traffic which compels Dubai controllers to blurt out rude replies, its moronic pilots who think they are the only ones flying on the day and make requests regardless whether they are flying into a grass airfield or a major airport. By your posting it seems you don't have any idea of the traffic levels here nor how difficult it is to adhere to impromptu requests in such a complicated piece of airspace. I am still wondering though what your whole story is all about but I bet you had quite a lovely time going around the Dubai TMA before deciding to land.
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Hi Falcon
Here are the facts and you tell me what you think:
1 On first contact with UAE, after Muscat, I say it is very likely we are diverting to Fujeirah but will come back shortly with final decison. We have just passed Pasov at FL 270 and we are descending to FL 200. Shortly thereafter we are given a heading to fly and slow down to 250 kts because ATC wants us to "fly as slow as possible". I must stress the frequency was not very busy. Time: 03:25Z Sunday morning.
2. No information about visibility and/or RVR from the controllers (is this normal in UAE FIR?). We are monitoring ATIS and heading roughly towards Bubin. Visibility is increasing very rapidly, from 200m to 400m, than 800m. As soon as we hear 800m, we say we are not diverting but continuing to Dubai. The response:"I wish you would make up your mind quicker!" We are now 15 miles southwest of Bubin.
3. Handed over to approach, a lady controller, a pleasure to work with.
You tell me what I did wrong and what should I do next time to keep you guys polite!
Here are the facts and you tell me what you think:
1 On first contact with UAE, after Muscat, I say it is very likely we are diverting to Fujeirah but will come back shortly with final decison. We have just passed Pasov at FL 270 and we are descending to FL 200. Shortly thereafter we are given a heading to fly and slow down to 250 kts because ATC wants us to "fly as slow as possible". I must stress the frequency was not very busy. Time: 03:25Z Sunday morning.
2. No information about visibility and/or RVR from the controllers (is this normal in UAE FIR?). We are monitoring ATIS and heading roughly towards Bubin. Visibility is increasing very rapidly, from 200m to 400m, than 800m. As soon as we hear 800m, we say we are not diverting but continuing to Dubai. The response:"I wish you would make up your mind quicker!" We are now 15 miles southwest of Bubin.
3. Handed over to approach, a lady controller, a pleasure to work with.
You tell me what I did wrong and what should I do next time to keep you guys polite!
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100m down/10,000m up;
And you have not seen her......
Cos I'm sure by the time you would have landed, you would have forgot all about your 'good morning call' from 'DXB ARR'...(as stated by you...r u sure? it was DXB or was it UAE East)...
3. Handed over to approach, a lady controller, a pleasure to work with.
Cos I'm sure by the time you would have landed, you would have forgot all about your 'good morning call' from 'DXB ARR'...(as stated by you...r u sure? it was DXB or was it UAE East)...
Last edited by Tin-Bullet; 11th Dec 2007 at 11:06.
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100M Down/10000M Up, you did nothing wrong, as far as decisiveness is concerned, from what you wrote, I would say you pretty much fulfilled the dictionary description of the word.
The person concerned is I assure you very much in the minority in ATC circles and is probably someone who needs a change of underwear every time they happen upon their own shadow.
Water off a ducks back mate!
The person concerned is I assure you very much in the minority in ATC circles and is probably someone who needs a change of underwear every time they happen upon their own shadow.
Water off a ducks back mate!
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Waz'nt me! I was at the other end of the building using the microwave that management don't believe controllers are adult enough to have in their crew room!
The time 0325Z is very important as the controller would have been at work for 1 hour already, and with no fridge, coffee machine or microwave it goes without saying that he will be a grumpy little camper!
The time 0325Z is very important as the controller would have been at work for 1 hour already, and with no fridge, coffee machine or microwave it goes without saying that he will be a grumpy little camper!
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I was at the other end of the building using the microwave that management don't believe controllers are adult enough to have in their crew room!
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Phew! It wasn't me either. You were working with UAE East by the sounds of it which is done from the Abu Dhabi Carrefour Parking lot.
Not condoning rudeness on the frequency but everyone has bad days and maybe he was having one of those. Any chance of a nationality just so we can narrow down who it was. Not for any operational reason but just so we can give them some stick
Ditto Foxys comment, that if we were considered adult enough to have a fridge and a microwave in our zip code then we may be well fed and well caffiened so we may not be quite so grumpy. (Also if we were on the money Dubai was on we may be a little happier too but thats for another thread).
P.S We aren't considered worthy of having access to any ATIS's in UAE ACC so no we can't offer you any RVR info. I personally will call regularly to the relvant airport to chase up RVRs so as to keep pilots up to date but that is obviously workload permitting.
Not condoning rudeness on the frequency but everyone has bad days and maybe he was having one of those. Any chance of a nationality just so we can narrow down who it was. Not for any operational reason but just so we can give them some stick
Ditto Foxys comment, that if we were considered adult enough to have a fridge and a microwave in our zip code then we may be well fed and well caffiened so we may not be quite so grumpy. (Also if we were on the money Dubai was on we may be a little happier too but thats for another thread).
P.S We aren't considered worthy of having access to any ATIS's in UAE ACC so no we can't offer you any RVR info. I personally will call regularly to the relvant airport to chase up RVRs so as to keep pilots up to date but that is obviously workload permitting.
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You're not by chance a MKA (aka Kruger) Pilot???
If so, a little birdy tells me there is more to the story than is being let on.
Maybe it would be prudent to review the chain of events carefully and then retell the story. Maybe on reflection you may recall there may have been a holding stack at BUBIN, and even though frequency congestion wise they may have sounded quiet, due to the fog and general holding they were far from that.
Again it was not me, but just want to see if I can jog your memory.
Cheers.
Maybe it would be prudent to review the chain of events carefully and then retell the story. Maybe on reflection you may recall there may have been a holding stack at BUBIN, and even though frequency congestion wise they may have sounded quiet, due to the fog and general holding they were far from that.
Again it was not me, but just want to see if I can jog your memory.
Cheers.
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It wasn't Dubai
100m down/10000m up my late reply and I gladly say it wasn't Dubai but having said that Dubai controllers aren't totally innocent of rude comments either and I agree its unwarranted and unprofessional. In this case I think it was early morning blues and lack of awareness of the situation in which you were in. Its the same from our side when you get one pilot who is simply cooperative and willing to do what is necessary and another who is a total pr**k and makes your life miserable for the duration of the service given. So I say don't take it personal its just a matter of individual personalities.
It could also be that as Fox3snapshot quite rightly states that UAE is getting a smaller pay rise which makes them blurt out rude statements!!
(sorry fox3 cudn't resist this one!
)
It could also be that as Fox3snapshot quite rightly states that UAE is getting a smaller pay rise which makes them blurt out rude statements!!
(sorry fox3 cudn't resist this one!
)
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Were you flying MKA
We are all waiting with baited breathe for your answer. If this was the aircraft concerned, then the true story will be revealed and there will be a totally different light shed on the situation. Believe me, there will be many people eating humble pie for their totally misinformed opinions, based on what our complainant had to say. I am one of 3 people involved in this event, and it won't just be my recollection of the event. The tapes are also available.
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Regardless of who said what in this specific case, I am fully in support of all pilots putting in a report if they feel they have been treated in a way they don't feel is acceptable. Everything said and done is recorded, and as such it can be easily looked into. I have personally followed up complaints from Emirates on a number of occasions. Sometimes it was found the ATCO was in the right other times not, and when its found that they were not remedial action was taken.
If it really bothers you, report it. If you don't want to go into print, do as used to be done in the old days. Get the phone number of the centre and call up on arrival and talk about it. You may find the explanation given suffices.
If it really bothers you, report it. If you don't want to go into print, do as used to be done in the old days. Get the phone number of the centre and call up on arrival and talk about it. You may find the explanation given suffices.
