Approach speed control in STN

[jonny B good]

Telstar

I'm a Tower controller at STN. I am unaware of any agreement re 164kts vs 160kts but will look into it if someone hasn't already done so.
The problem with speed not complied with is when we have a large number of inbounds, we will 'pack' to 3nm on final. Any erosion of this spacing is then a loss of seperation, whether it sets alarms of or not. It can also easily lead to go arounds as there may not be suffiecient time for the preceding to vacate.
Equally, there is NO excuse for the app controllers reaction. If they were monitoring you because they had an issue with your speed, they should have done something about it rather than just let it run until you were inside 4 dme.
Anytime you have any problems, feel free to give us a call in the VCR and we'll do our best to resolve it.
Cheers, JBG

[Mister Geezer]

Interesting article in CHIRP from a ATCO highlighting poor speed control and possibly alluding to SS since he noted that he has seen 320KIAS on passing BKY!

To those crews who fly into any of the London airports.... just play the game since with Mode S providing IAS data to the guys and girls who are controlling you it is not possible to bull5hit anymore!

[Roffa]

Interesting article in CHIRP from a ATCO highlighting poor speed control and possibly alluding to SS since he noted that he has seen 320KIAS on passing BKY!

It's not uncommon for traffic in to the LHR holds to call approach a few miles from the beacon saying they're doing high speed, having been approved by the TMA, only for approach to say enter the hold delay is x minutes.

It's not always the pilots at fault, depsite the fact TMA and approach have been sitting in the same room for over 10 years now we're not very well joined up at times.

[I Just Drive]

Jonny, is it only groundspeed you can see? Also do you know what speed the mode S will be reporting? Is it actual speed or selected speed?

And I think you guys do a great job by the way. Sorry for sucking up. And sorry that we don't make enough of an effort listening out on the ground frequency on stand!

[Telstar]

To those crews who fly into any of the London airports.... just play the game since with Mode S providing IAS data to the guys and girls who are controlling you it is not possible to bull5hit anymore!

Is it selected speed or actual speed readout? With Vertical speed selected you can set the speed at 210 in the MCP but still be doing 300 kts with a V/S of 3000 FPM for example. Not saying I would do this , just saying Mode S might not be foolproof.

[AlanM]

Ahh but Telstar. We have selected speed as per the Mode S for equipped aircraft, and groundspeed which we have always had. (comes off the radar returns but is fairly accurate (we often ask aircraft for their GS))

We tend to build in wind/descent rates into the thoughts when muttering to ourselves that you haven't slowed down!

[390cruise]

'I was waiting to see if you were going to slow down'

I have been a Stansted based pilot for many years and have a strong
regard for the professionalism of the all the controllers there.
This includes the Delivery,Ground and Tower who are based in
Stansted control tower and also Director and Essex radar who are
for now still at West Drayton.

However within the last few weeks there is ONE of the radar controllers
who (it seems to me) has an attitude problem.He makes comments which
are quite offensive.

The comment 'I was waiting to see if you were going to slow down' fits
that type of comment.

I would suggest that NATS identify him and provide any required re training.

Kind Regards

390Cruise.

[zkdli]

Hello Chaps,
Mode s downlink shows Indicated Airspeed from the ASI, the aircraft heading, the ground speed (if the aircraft is not mode s equipped it will show radar derived ground speed). It will also show the actual rate of climb or descent of the aircarft and the Selected Flight level from the MCP.
Hope this helps.