What do pilots do that 'irk' you?
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What do pilots do that 'irk' you?
Hello one and all,
My name is Conway Bown. Ex military pilot, currently EMS pilot, aviation artist and CRM facilitator.
One of the modules I deliver is 'Communication and Assertiveness' where I discuss the problems associated with communication in the aviation environment.
I know what I'm about to ask is like poking a wasp's nest with a stick, but I was wondering if you guys and girls would list the things about pilots that really p*ss you off, in particular the communication aspects.
For example, giving position reports too quickly and without consideration for the person receiving the information... or not using standard phraseology... or forgetting to cancel SARTIMES/FLIGHT PLANS. It's all good!
I will collate the list and deliver this information to the aircrew on my courses... and hopefully help to make everyone's lives a little easier and more efficient.
Thanks in advance... and thanks also for all the work you guys and gals do for us aviators. You may not get the sort of appreciation you all deserve... so let me say from me, we DO appreciate it!
Cheers
Conway Bown
www.ipas.com.au
My name is Conway Bown. Ex military pilot, currently EMS pilot, aviation artist and CRM facilitator.
One of the modules I deliver is 'Communication and Assertiveness' where I discuss the problems associated with communication in the aviation environment.
I know what I'm about to ask is like poking a wasp's nest with a stick, but I was wondering if you guys and girls would list the things about pilots that really p*ss you off, in particular the communication aspects.
For example, giving position reports too quickly and without consideration for the person receiving the information... or not using standard phraseology... or forgetting to cancel SARTIMES/FLIGHT PLANS. It's all good!
I will collate the list and deliver this information to the aircrew on my courses... and hopefully help to make everyone's lives a little easier and more efficient.
Thanks in advance... and thanks also for all the work you guys and gals do for us aviators. You may not get the sort of appreciation you all deserve... so let me say from me, we DO appreciate it!
Cheers
Conway Bown
www.ipas.com.au
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Fly planes.
Just saw you are RAAF.
- Teach your crews the grouped call sign method. Raven23 is raven twenty three NOT raven two three
- When given a VHF direct freq, don't read back the stud equivalent.
- We use Flight levels over A100. Requesting altitudes above this will just confuse some people. Buckshot10 request two zero thousand. Not cool.
- Flight planning climbs. It seems most of the climb plans are based on the now no longer used domestic flight plans. Review the climb planning procedure on the ICAO form.
- Just becuase you are being delayed by another RAAF aircraft does not mean you can go MARSA (unplanned)
EDIT!!
saw you meant EX. I left the text so the RAAF guys may read it.
Just saw you are RAAF.
- Teach your crews the grouped call sign method. Raven23 is raven twenty three NOT raven two three
- When given a VHF direct freq, don't read back the stud equivalent.
- We use Flight levels over A100. Requesting altitudes above this will just confuse some people. Buckshot10 request two zero thousand. Not cool.
- Flight planning climbs. It seems most of the climb plans are based on the now no longer used domestic flight plans. Review the climb planning procedure on the ICAO form.
- Just becuase you are being delayed by another RAAF aircraft does not mean you can go MARSA (unplanned)
EDIT!!
saw you meant EX. I left the text so the RAAF guys may read it.
Last edited by tobzalp; 30th Jan 2007 at 07:15.
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Thanks
Thanks tobzalp for the info... keep it coming.
By the way, I'm ex Army... definitely NOT RAAF. But the examples are good. (Not many Army helos get up to two zero thousand!).
Cheers
Conway
By the way, I'm ex Army... definitely NOT RAAF. But the examples are good. (Not many Army helos get up to two zero thousand!).
Cheers
Conway
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Hi Conway,
Yup. Best put on your tin hat and stand by for incoming.
- On first contact, with 45 track miles to go, being told you're number what ever and replying "where's our traffic?"..........uhhh, 50 miles west of you. Let me know if you see him.
- when downwind with a few on final and telling me "Oh, we have our traffic". Umm, as I didn't actually tell you which one you're following, I'm not real certain that you do.
- with a visual sequence going, telling me "we have them on TCAS" isn't quite what I'm looking for.
- pilots that ask me if I'm a Kiwi or Sth African
Here's another thread with some more........
Yup. Best put on your tin hat and stand by for incoming.
- On first contact, with 45 track miles to go, being told you're number what ever and replying "where's our traffic?"..........uhhh, 50 miles west of you. Let me know if you see him.
- when downwind with a few on final and telling me "Oh, we have our traffic". Umm, as I didn't actually tell you which one you're following, I'm not real certain that you do.
- with a visual sequence going, telling me "we have them on TCAS" isn't quite what I'm looking for.
- pilots that ask me if I'm a Kiwi or Sth African
Here's another thread with some more........
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Conway, just sent you a Private Message but my laptop chucked a wobbly and I'm not sure if it was sent. Let me know.
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Things that irk me -
Pilots using non standard phraseology
Asking why they are not number one, and stating they could clearly get ahead of that one if they could keep the speed up
Asking what the reason for the delay is for the pushback
Thinking that they only have to comply with a heading or level instruction, but that a speed instruction is advisory
Those are the main gripes that I have
Obviously I am perfect 
louby
Pilots using non standard phraseology
Asking why they are not number one, and stating they could clearly get ahead of that one if they could keep the speed up
Asking what the reason for the delay is for the pushback
Thinking that they only have to comply with a heading or level instruction, but that a speed instruction is advisory
Those are the main gripes that I have
Obviously I am perfect
louby
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Identing without being asked.
Chatter on the frequency...EASY to do ...you know who you are!
Concur with "wheres number blah" and use of TCAS
Failure to answer the question...eg report your speed when given a speed (not being adhered to)....REDUCING to..!!
Chatter on the frequency...EASY to do ...you know who you are!
Concur with "wheres number blah" and use of TCAS
Failure to answer the question...eg report your speed when given a speed (not being adhered to)....REDUCING to..!!
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1.Replying to a standby instruction with another call "roger standing by". The reason I told you to standby is I have to finish something else so you replying just makes you stand by even longer. Standby means shut up and I will get back to you when I can.
2.Not using a callsign when reading back an instruction. I am not psychic and I don't have time to guess if the correct aircraft readback that frequency transfer. Just use your callsign.
3.Locally based pilots asking at 11.30pm arriving into Dubai what the reason is for the hold, when they should know that we almost always hold at that time of the night and its always for the same reason (too many aircraft arriving at the same time), and if I am holding I probably don't have time to answer your stupid question that you should be able to work out for yourself.
4.Pilots who switch frequency and then jump straight in with their initial call without listening for a few seconds first to make sure the frequency is clear.
5.Pilots who finish every readback with "confirm". Give the readback, if it is wrong I will correct you, if it is right you will hear either sweet silence, or more probably me moving onto the next aircraft. There is no need to finish every readback of instruction with "confirm".
Tobzalp I know the guy asking the question is RAAF so grouping flight numbers is appropriate for him and you, but for other pilots reading this thread, a lot of places in the world aren't very partial to number grouping and would still prefer "RAVEN TWO THREE", or more like "DOOM TWO THREE" in this part of the world.
2.Not using a callsign when reading back an instruction. I am not psychic and I don't have time to guess if the correct aircraft readback that frequency transfer. Just use your callsign.
3.Locally based pilots asking at 11.30pm arriving into Dubai what the reason is for the hold, when they should know that we almost always hold at that time of the night and its always for the same reason (too many aircraft arriving at the same time), and if I am holding I probably don't have time to answer your stupid question that you should be able to work out for yourself.
4.Pilots who switch frequency and then jump straight in with their initial call without listening for a few seconds first to make sure the frequency is clear.
5.Pilots who finish every readback with "confirm". Give the readback, if it is wrong I will correct you, if it is right you will hear either sweet silence, or more probably me moving onto the next aircraft. There is no need to finish every readback of instruction with "confirm".
Tobzalp I know the guy asking the question is RAAF so grouping flight numbers is appropriate for him and you, but for other pilots reading this thread, a lot of places in the world aren't very partial to number grouping and would still prefer "RAVEN TWO THREE", or more like "DOOM TWO THREE" in this part of the world.
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- Pilots asking for more direct routing on a congested frequency
- Pilots who have been assigned an intermedite FL due traffic, and when just about to level off, request futher climb
Do they sometimes look at their TCAS? Or even better, outside the cockpit?
- Pilots who have been assigned an intermedite FL due traffic, and when just about to level off, request futher climb
Do they sometimes look at their TCAS? Or even better, outside the cockpit?
"Do they sometimes look at their TCAS? Or even better, outside the cockpit?"
TCAS has a limited lateral range, usually less than 50 miles. If the conflicting traffic is displayed, I take that into consideration. 40 to 50 miles with two jets at altitude, opposite direction eats up the mileage pretty fast. Long before the 3 to 5 minutes that would be observed by the pilots, I would imagine the conflict has already been considered and mitigated by the controller however its still not displayed to the pilot on TCAS.
Ever try picking out something the size of a large vehicle (equiv of a small biz jet) from 10 miles away? Its not easy.
TCAS has a limited lateral range, usually less than 50 miles. If the conflicting traffic is displayed, I take that into consideration. 40 to 50 miles with two jets at altitude, opposite direction eats up the mileage pretty fast. Long before the 3 to 5 minutes that would be observed by the pilots, I would imagine the conflict has already been considered and mitigated by the controller however its still not displayed to the pilot on TCAS.
Ever try picking out something the size of a large vehicle (equiv of a small biz jet) from 10 miles away? Its not easy.
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5.Pilots who finish every readback with "confirm". Give the readback, if it is wrong I will correct you, if it is right you will hear either sweet silence, or more probably me moving onto the next aircraft. There is no need to finish every readback of instruction with "confirm".
Hope that helps - BTW I am shorthaul so end up flying quite a bit and end up using this about once a month. When I do, its useful...
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Cough, I said pilots that finish every sentence with confirm. The odd confirm here and there isn't a problem and I understand completely why you want to use it. I don't know whether it is due to pilot training in India, but Indair and Air India pilots will finish almost every readback with confirm, even though their english is perfect. It gets ridiculous when in the space of 5 minutes you have given them 4 instructions and they have asked to confirm every single one of them. It may not seem much but that extra albeit short response of "correct", can put you over the edge at certain times, so unless there truly is disagreement over what the clearance was, make a clear readback of what you think it is, and we will correct you if it is wrong, otherwise as I said, our silence is your confirmation that you are correct.
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Fair enough....
[mischief]Why don't you add a sentence on the ATIS pending their arrival....Or even "Confirm you wish to divert to xxx" "nooo" "so you heard that first time then perhaps you would like to try the rest of my words first time too"...[/mischief]
[mischief]Why don't you add a sentence on the ATIS pending their arrival....Or even "Confirm you wish to divert to xxx" "nooo" "so you heard that first time then perhaps you would like to try the rest of my words first time too"...[/mischief]
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Conway,
Keep up the good work.
The most irksome thing for most controllers is when, after passing an instruction to an aircraft, the pilot asks the reason for the vector, amended level, speed reduction etc. especially after being told a generic reason like, due traffic, for sequencing, etc.
This was particularly irksome in the 90s when every crusty captain fourbars seemed to fly with Qantas and as soon as you did something to them they'd want a full dissertion of where the traffic is, your reasoning for the amendment to their track, etc. Those days seem behind us, although ocassionally one of those old Qantas habits appears again from a tech crew.
The other irksome thing for those in a busy environment is when you have to repeat an instruction to an aircraft, when no response is received, especially more than twice. This causes the controller to begin equipment checks to determine if his equipment is at fault.
The old Flight West Brasillias used to be the worst. I think it might have been because the tech. crew tended not to wear their headsets during cruise and the aircraft was very noisy on the flight deck.
It seems that a certain discount airline seems to be the most common offender in this reqard. Not sure the reason for this, and I also understand that the crew aren't just sitting in the cockpit waiting with bated breath for my next instruction, they also have things to do like checklists, PA announcements, etc.
These are the most irksome off the top of my head, but I'm sure to think of some others given some time.
Carpe Diem.
Keep up the good work.
The most irksome thing for most controllers is when, after passing an instruction to an aircraft, the pilot asks the reason for the vector, amended level, speed reduction etc. especially after being told a generic reason like, due traffic, for sequencing, etc.
This was particularly irksome in the 90s when every crusty captain fourbars seemed to fly with Qantas and as soon as you did something to them they'd want a full dissertion of where the traffic is, your reasoning for the amendment to their track, etc. Those days seem behind us, although ocassionally one of those old Qantas habits appears again from a tech crew.
The other irksome thing for those in a busy environment is when you have to repeat an instruction to an aircraft, when no response is received, especially more than twice. This causes the controller to begin equipment checks to determine if his equipment is at fault.
The old Flight West Brasillias used to be the worst. I think it might have been because the tech. crew tended not to wear their headsets during cruise and the aircraft was very noisy on the flight deck.
It seems that a certain discount airline seems to be the most common offender in this reqard. Not sure the reason for this, and I also understand that the crew aren't just sitting in the cockpit waiting with bated breath for my next instruction, they also have things to do like checklists, PA announcements, etc.
These are the most irksome off the top of my head, but I'm sure to think of some others given some time.
Carpe Diem.