Airservices Australia Global Search for ATCs
Ohcirrej
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: This is the internet FFS.........
Posts: 2,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Any truth to the rumour the 2 guys (Canadian and Kiwi) who started in Brisbane recently were thrown in at the deep end, both assigned to the on OJTI, no introductory course provided, no airspace introduction (I believe they're now working Inverell sector), no consideration as to their previous experience or airspace they worked..........and basically have to try and fill the blanks as they go?
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Geelong
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can anyone say honestly, without any bias as to whether AsA is in as much disaray as posts would have us would be controllers believe? I have had an application in process for 14 months now (completed testing, passed, but no further progression until Feb/March 2008)due to college courses being filled with bridging courses for controllers found during the global search. I try to remain optimistic but I wonder if I should just pack in all hopes of persuing this career.
I would also like to say that there are a great many Australians that would give their
to be earning some of the wages mentioned in threads, and I believe their work conditions to be far worse than I have witnessed at Melbourne centre.
I would also like to say that there are a great many Australians that would give their
to be earning some of the wages mentioned in threads, and I believe their work conditions to be far worse than I have witnessed at Melbourne centre.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gazs, AsA isn't worst employer I have ever worked for and yes the salaries do appear to be very lucrative. It is what you make of it, don't go chasing ATC for the money because you will be sadly disappointed. Yes it has helped me put the kids through school and paid the mortgage.
If you want an exciting and rewarding job with challenges and rewards for a job well done don't go working for AsA in the Area (Enroute) Centres. It is an anally retentive work environment that has the worst aspects of both the public service and private enterprise
. The best thing that has happened to me was being asked to leave (in a round about kind of way), the desert isn't the nicest place to live but at least now I can enjoy going to work.
Outstation towers appear to be a better option despite paying less, at least you get to see the sky and aeroplanes you're talking to.
Best job I ever had.....well that is altogether another thread
Actually my bro had the best job ever, flying Tac Hercs for the blue suit flying club
If you want an exciting and rewarding job with challenges and rewards for a job well done don't go working for AsA in the Area (Enroute) Centres. It is an anally retentive work environment that has the worst aspects of both the public service and private enterprise
. The best thing that has happened to me was being asked to leave (in a round about kind of way), the desert isn't the nicest place to live but at least now I can enjoy going to work.Outstation towers appear to be a better option despite paying less, at least you get to see the sky and aeroplanes you're talking to.
Best job I ever had.....well that is altogether another thread
Actually my bro had the best job ever, flying Tac Hercs for the blue suit flying club
Last edited by Funk; 21st Aug 2007 at 06:09. Reason: coz!
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bleak City
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes Ozzie,
Reflecting on your post, institutionalised is the perfect way of describing your typical ATC in the centres. As morale plummets ATC's adopt the wonderful Australian trait of turning on their own.
There a very few people on any one group you can trust as self interest becomes the guiding principle.
Don't believe the BS rhetoric from your union either, they're as bad as the managers described from ASA, once again self interest rules.
Reflecting on your post, institutionalised is the perfect way of describing your typical ATC in the centres. As morale plummets ATC's adopt the wonderful Australian trait of turning on their own.
There a very few people on any one group you can trust as self interest becomes the guiding principle.
Don't believe the BS rhetoric from your union either, they're as bad as the managers described from ASA, once again self interest rules.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Golden Road to Samarkand
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
gazs,
Join Airservices, become a controller, clock up five years experience and then, if you're the travelling type, leave. You need a minimum of five years experience to apply for jobs overseas and if you have the courage enough to take that step and take your chances in the international world of Air Traffic Control, the rewards will far out-weigh any small sacrifices you might find that you make along the way. You'll gain skills in ATC and knowledge in aviation that you won't find in Australia and see parts of the world that you might never have seen if you choose the long career in Airservices and do nothing but watch football on weekends and holiday in-country. If you stay in Australia, don't stay in one group or position longer than five years, transfer to another position or group if you can.
Training sucks in ATC, but if you keep plugging away at learning the job, you'll find it easier with time. Study hard, maintain your confidence in yourself (without being over-confident!), be honest with yourself and your instructor and heed the advice that the boys have given above.
Join the union, Civilair, but don't expect too much from them. They mean well, but tend to believe that they know what is in your best interests in any given situation, more-so than yourself, and they will threaten to remove representation if you don't agree. Unfortunately, sometimes they are wrong.
Trust your instincts and definitely keep a low profile. Intellect and independent thought is viewed by many as a threat (for the life of me I don't understand why, but it's true)... unless you're in the "club".
Don't talk to your Operations Manager other than to smile and say "Good Morning". If your Operations Manager invites you into his office with a smile and closes the door behind you, get up and open the door and walk out of it. No, you don't need his/her permission to leave the office. Just make sure that you're never in it alone, informally or formally. Get everything in writing and keep a diary of every that is said to you by your Managers and your Supervisors with times, places and dates, it's worth gold when you need it down the track.
Ozzie ATCO & En-Rooter are 100% correct. But, if your heart is set on becoming an Air Traffic Controller... don't walk away.
Join Airservices, become a controller, clock up five years experience and then, if you're the travelling type, leave. You need a minimum of five years experience to apply for jobs overseas and if you have the courage enough to take that step and take your chances in the international world of Air Traffic Control, the rewards will far out-weigh any small sacrifices you might find that you make along the way. You'll gain skills in ATC and knowledge in aviation that you won't find in Australia and see parts of the world that you might never have seen if you choose the long career in Airservices and do nothing but watch football on weekends and holiday in-country. If you stay in Australia, don't stay in one group or position longer than five years, transfer to another position or group if you can.
Training sucks in ATC, but if you keep plugging away at learning the job, you'll find it easier with time. Study hard, maintain your confidence in yourself (without being over-confident!), be honest with yourself and your instructor and heed the advice that the boys have given above.
Join the union, Civilair, but don't expect too much from them. They mean well, but tend to believe that they know what is in your best interests in any given situation, more-so than yourself, and they will threaten to remove representation if you don't agree. Unfortunately, sometimes they are wrong.
Trust your instincts and definitely keep a low profile. Intellect and independent thought is viewed by many as a threat (for the life of me I don't understand why, but it's true)... unless you're in the "club".
Don't talk to your Operations Manager other than to smile and say "Good Morning". If your Operations Manager invites you into his office with a smile and closes the door behind you, get up and open the door and walk out of it. No, you don't need his/her permission to leave the office. Just make sure that you're never in it alone, informally or formally. Get everything in writing and keep a diary of every that is said to you by your Managers and your Supervisors with times, places and dates, it's worth gold when you need it down the track.
Ozzie ATCO & En-Rooter are 100% correct. But, if your heart is set on becoming an Air Traffic Controller... don't walk away.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The fiery depths of LLEH
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OS Controllers - Conditions
Can any of the OS controllers that have joined, or will be joining AsA confirm 3 things:
1) Did AsA pay for your move?
2) Was your previous experience recognised, ie: if you have 12 years experience, are you going to be hired at Payscale Level 12.
3) Are you bound by a training bond? if so - how long?
No need to specify the details of your conditions, just a simple yes or no on the above points.
Any additional comments on how AsA has handled your "hiring process" would also be welcomed.
1) Did AsA pay for your move?
2) Was your previous experience recognised, ie: if you have 12 years experience, are you going to be hired at Payscale Level 12.
3) Are you bound by a training bond? if so - how long?
No need to specify the details of your conditions, just a simple yes or no on the above points.
Any additional comments on how AsA has handled your "hiring process" would also be welcomed.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
atcomarkingtime,
Pm me. I'll show you around.
Quokka, we don't have ops managers anymore. We have ATC line managers. Surely you don't think they are as bad as all that. Hell, I'm one, and I sure wouldn't treat you badly or in any way be underhanded.
Both the kiwi and canuck OS controllers new to Brisbane are in my group. I'm not there actual manager, but I have been helping in some ways with there integration into the AsA ATC world. It is quite a culture shock for them. The Group Training Instructor is looking after them really well, and filling in the gaps in there training left by the ATC College. We are making a submission to the College to improve the lot for the next group of OS controllers. Hopefully they'll take our advice.
For all the ney sayers about being an ATC in Oz, I just wonder if you'd be happy in any job with any company. You are very negative about everything.
I've been in the job since 1983, and although things have never been perfect, Oz controllers are renown for being professional, caring controllers who always do their best given whatever circumstances. As one of my old supervisors used to say, "If you can't take a joke, then you shouldn't be in this job." Thanks Rowdy.
BTW, I used to work with Jerricho's dad, and I still work with his brother. And those two epitimise (is that how you spell it?) what being a good controller is all about.
Pm me. I'll show you around.
Quokka, we don't have ops managers anymore. We have ATC line managers. Surely you don't think they are as bad as all that. Hell, I'm one, and I sure wouldn't treat you badly or in any way be underhanded.
Both the kiwi and canuck OS controllers new to Brisbane are in my group. I'm not there actual manager, but I have been helping in some ways with there integration into the AsA ATC world. It is quite a culture shock for them. The Group Training Instructor is looking after them really well, and filling in the gaps in there training left by the ATC College. We are making a submission to the College to improve the lot for the next group of OS controllers. Hopefully they'll take our advice.
For all the ney sayers about being an ATC in Oz, I just wonder if you'd be happy in any job with any company. You are very negative about everything.
I've been in the job since 1983, and although things have never been perfect, Oz controllers are renown for being professional, caring controllers who always do their best given whatever circumstances. As one of my old supervisors used to say, "If you can't take a joke, then you shouldn't be in this job." Thanks Rowdy.
BTW, I used to work with Jerricho's dad, and I still work with his brother. And those two epitimise (is that how you spell it?) what being a good controller is all about.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Golden Road to Samarkand
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, there are some very good Line Managers whom I have never lost respect for and to whom I have sought advice and supported whenever appropriate. It's true that everyone's experience is personal and everyone's experience is different. Mine was mixed with two extremes, intelligent Line Managers with whom I could have an intelligent conversation with (with-out prejudice), and un-intelligent, self-serving, power-obsessed Line Managers who don't understand people and don't like being told by qualified specialists that they're wrong.
Without writing an essay, during my final year with Airservices I observed the following occur in my Centre:
1. A Manager being removed from the operational environment apparently due to aggressive behaviour towards a controller.
2. An alleged act of defamation that was protected from prosecution by two Managers. One of whom I gather is no longer a Line Manager.
3. A document that was signed by a controller, subsequently altered by a Line Manager and a HR Officer and presented to a third party as being a true and accurate document as endorsed by the controller.
4. The HR Officer resigning after the matter was referred to the Fraud Control Officer.
5. The Manager involved stating in a formal meeting "I thought I could do that".
6. A deliberate breach of CATSOAM by two Line Managers. One of whom I gather is no longer a Line Manager. The other denied being involved but subsequently supported the action.
There always different sides to a story, but in these cases, it did not appear to have been handled well by anyone involved. There were, however, other Line Managers who were not involved who provided support, advice and assistance behind the scenes. It is those Managers who give hope to those who remain within Airservices and those who may want to return some day for whatever reason.
Without writing an essay, during my final year with Airservices I observed the following occur in my Centre:
1. A Manager being removed from the operational environment apparently due to aggressive behaviour towards a controller.
2. An alleged act of defamation that was protected from prosecution by two Managers. One of whom I gather is no longer a Line Manager.
3. A document that was signed by a controller, subsequently altered by a Line Manager and a HR Officer and presented to a third party as being a true and accurate document as endorsed by the controller.
4. The HR Officer resigning after the matter was referred to the Fraud Control Officer.
5. The Manager involved stating in a formal meeting "I thought I could do that".
6. A deliberate breach of CATSOAM by two Line Managers. One of whom I gather is no longer a Line Manager. The other denied being involved but subsequently supported the action.
There always different sides to a story, but in these cases, it did not appear to have been handled well by anyone involved. There were, however, other Line Managers who were not involved who provided support, advice and assistance behind the scenes. It is those Managers who give hope to those who remain within Airservices and those who may want to return some day for whatever reason.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quokka,
Thanks for the balance. Yes there have been some not so good things happen. I don't know of the instances you quoted. Hopefully, the new line managers are a different breed than those who you've mentioned.
Thanks for the balance. Yes there have been some not so good things happen. I don't know of the instances you quoted. Hopefully, the new line managers are a different breed than those who you've mentioned.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: UAE
Age: 48
Posts: 447
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I heard all of the successful New Zealanders decided not to take up the offers. I believe this took place last week and it was a reasonable number who did it, all at the same time. Anyone heard about this? Second round offers being made?
Cheers,
NFR.
Cheers,
NFR.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: home sweet home
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I heard some of the Europeans refused as well...?
According to AsA there will be a course starting in Oct and another one in Nov, are these courses fully stuffed?
CrocD
According to AsA there will be a course starting in Oct and another one in Nov, are these courses fully stuffed?
CrocD
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: On a Ship Near You
Posts: 787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Business Development
Airservices Australia is setting up a subsidiary corporation (similar to Pacific Towers, one presumes) to bid for Middle East contracts. First on the agenda appears to be Bahrain (reputably the worst ANSP going, according to a thread here recently, which I can't find now). Within the internal 'employment opportunities' page there is a page dedicated to Bahrain opportunities.
I think it's a "fishing exercise" at this time; but there is little information about how you would be employed or even under what conditions, i.e. severance from ASA (LWOP?), likely coin on offer etc.
Still, it's fascinating all the same; we are in a staffing 'crisis' and yet are in a position to bid for more external business with our vast resources. Reminds me of the Sth African experience 5 years or so ago; people almost on the plane when it was discovered there wasn't any coin in it for the company; oh and did I mention being short of staff?
Mind you, if the ASA subsidiary is just a management arm like Pacific Towers and it continues to use the staff on the ground then I wonder what extra resources is actually needed, 9 5ths of bugga all?
All the while I'm sure a certain Terry Hills resident will love to use this one too in his arguments.
One wonders what the argument between WE and BP was about? WE won obviously because BP is gone (along with FD; it's good to have the ear of the king) and this business development opportunity is alive; sort of.
I think it's a "fishing exercise" at this time; but there is little information about how you would be employed or even under what conditions, i.e. severance from ASA (LWOP?), likely coin on offer etc.
Still, it's fascinating all the same; we are in a staffing 'crisis' and yet are in a position to bid for more external business with our vast resources. Reminds me of the Sth African experience 5 years or so ago; people almost on the plane when it was discovered there wasn't any coin in it for the company; oh and did I mention being short of staff?
Mind you, if the ASA subsidiary is just a management arm like Pacific Towers and it continues to use the staff on the ground then I wonder what extra resources is actually needed, 9 5ths of bugga all?
All the while I'm sure a certain Terry Hills resident will love to use this one too in his arguments.
One wonders what the argument between WE and BP was about? WE won obviously because BP is gone (along with FD; it's good to have the ear of the king) and this business development opportunity is alive; sort of.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: 24 27 45.66N 54 22 42.28E
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I hope ASA realise that if they get involved in the Middle East they would need to treat it completely differently to ATC in Australia. If they don't and they run things as anally as they do in Australia they won't have any controllers with a license after a month. Its a fact of life in the Middle East right now that you accept that coord failures happen all the time just because of the crazy levels of traffic we are handling right now. With that in mind over here we log coord failures in a book and keep working. In Oz they suspend you and have a few coord failures and they start trying to permanently pull your license.
SM4 I think until anyone comes and sees the traffic that is being moved right now and the number of ATCO's employed in the moving of that traffic, it is unfair to label them with the "worst ANS provider tag". Bahrain regularly has US aircraft carriers letting loose bomb bursts of fighters amongst all their civil traffic with no control over what they do. They have an ANS neigbour to the North called Iran who are extremely difficult to work with at times and not always the most cooperative. They have the Saudis to the West, who change the rules at a moments notice and again are terrible to try and work with. They currently have radar sectors where it is normal to have 30 aircraft on frequency (and we are talking about a small amount of aircspace compared to the sizes of sectors in Oz). The fact that there are not more reductions is a miracle, and I think the guys over there do an amazing job. I honestly think that a lot of the people I worked with in Oz would turn and run for the hills if they saw the situations these guys and the rest of us in the Gulf have to deal with on a daily basis.
SM4 I think until anyone comes and sees the traffic that is being moved right now and the number of ATCO's employed in the moving of that traffic, it is unfair to label them with the "worst ANS provider tag". Bahrain regularly has US aircraft carriers letting loose bomb bursts of fighters amongst all their civil traffic with no control over what they do. They have an ANS neigbour to the North called Iran who are extremely difficult to work with at times and not always the most cooperative. They have the Saudis to the West, who change the rules at a moments notice and again are terrible to try and work with. They currently have radar sectors where it is normal to have 30 aircraft on frequency (and we are talking about a small amount of aircspace compared to the sizes of sectors in Oz). The fact that there are not more reductions is a miracle, and I think the guys over there do an amazing job. I honestly think that a lot of the people I worked with in Oz would turn and run for the hills if they saw the situations these guys and the rest of us in the Gulf have to deal with on a daily basis.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: In a Bubble
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does anyone know when ASA intends to pass out formal offers to those Aussies who got the nod from this recruiting campaign? I am sure there are many Defence sponsored controllers who are getting pretty sick of waiting and actively looking elsewhere. If ASA are expecting to fall back on them after the OS guys have told them 'no thank you', then ASA may be in for a shock.
Having said that, are there ways for Aussie controllers to go straight to OS positions (Europe, Gulf) if one has only worked for the RAAF?
Having said that, are there ways for Aussie controllers to go straight to OS positions (Europe, Gulf) if one has only worked for the RAAF?