Airservices Australia Global Search for ATCs
Join Date: Aug 2002
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IPSurfs,
ASA can by law require you to sign an AWA (as a new employee), however have indicated that the global search employees will be on our CA. An AWA is not a union collective agreement, is generally not union enorsed, and in my opinion undermines what we as a union have fought long and hard for.
Our CA can be found here http://www.wagenet.gov.au/WageNet/Se...A)&quickview=Y
As you can see it is a comprehensive document covering all our employment conditions, an AWA has only 5 minimum conditions (simple explanation but basically thats it) that must be included.
Our union officers (telephone +61 3 9647 9100) would I am sure be happy to answer any of your queries (2300-0700 UTC Mon-Fri).
Short answer, if you want to be on our CA, don't sign anything that has "Australian Workplace Agreement" in the title.
ASA can by law require you to sign an AWA (as a new employee), however have indicated that the global search employees will be on our CA. An AWA is not a union collective agreement, is generally not union enorsed, and in my opinion undermines what we as a union have fought long and hard for.
Our CA can be found here http://www.wagenet.gov.au/WageNet/Se...A)&quickview=Y
As you can see it is a comprehensive document covering all our employment conditions, an AWA has only 5 minimum conditions (simple explanation but basically thats it) that must be included.
Our union officers (telephone +61 3 9647 9100) would I am sure be happy to answer any of your queries (2300-0700 UTC Mon-Fri).
Short answer, if you want to be on our CA, don't sign anything that has "Australian Workplace Agreement" in the title.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Melbourne
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Melbourne info
Not sure if the same goes for Brisbane re rating times but Melbourne folk can expect:
2 week TAAATS HMI short course (after college)
4 - 6 weeks sim on appropriate sector airspace
2 - 3 months training for first rating
These figures are probably not optimistic and all being well could be shortened (OTJI training at least). Some Groups train on a couple of sectors as initial rating (ie high and low level sector) but this varies.
Hope this is of use. Disclaimer - I work TCU so these times are based on spectating and not participating
2 week TAAATS HMI short course (after college)
4 - 6 weeks sim on appropriate sector airspace
2 - 3 months training for first rating
These figures are probably not optimistic and all being well could be shortened (OTJI training at least). Some Groups train on a couple of sectors as initial rating (ie high and low level sector) but this varies.
Hope this is of use. Disclaimer - I work TCU so these times are based on spectating and not participating
Join Date: May 2003
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What if it's in Airservices Australia's interest to have the Global Search recruits on the CA rather than an AWA..?
If, for arguments sake, some or all of the recruits are slotted into the CA salary scale on the fifth increment regardless of experience and qualification. They then progress (assuming no performance issues) through the scale, one increment at a time, therefore taking several years to reach the top salary, a salary appropriate to their experience and qualification at the time of commencing employment.
If after three years employment on an AWA with the same salary provisions as the CA, having been released from any bond liability, what might happen (assuming no performance issues) if about twenty odd controllers were to indicate to Airservices that they're considering a return to their country of origin but that they would welcome a discussion in regard to the possibility of raising the salary in a renewed contract to the top increment on the CA?
If they're on the CA, what ability do they have to negotiate for accelerated advancement to the top salary increment?
If, for arguments sake, some or all of the recruits are slotted into the CA salary scale on the fifth increment regardless of experience and qualification. They then progress (assuming no performance issues) through the scale, one increment at a time, therefore taking several years to reach the top salary, a salary appropriate to their experience and qualification at the time of commencing employment.
If after three years employment on an AWA with the same salary provisions as the CA, having been released from any bond liability, what might happen (assuming no performance issues) if about twenty odd controllers were to indicate to Airservices that they're considering a return to their country of origin but that they would welcome a discussion in regard to the possibility of raising the salary in a renewed contract to the top increment on the CA?
If they're on the CA, what ability do they have to negotiate for accelerated advancement to the top salary increment?
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Yes, but...
Quokka,
It would appear (garnished from this thread and PM's) that the offers are directly related to the years in, I'm happy to be corrected; i.e. ATCs with 5 years are being offered 5th level (band, if you like) and those with 9, offered 9th level etc.
Re the bond, seems that those who have objected have got it down to 3 years; I'd be pushing for more (or less really).
AI & RAC/OPS, do you know each other? Or are you poms (wild guess) going to meet for the first time in Melbourne?
It would appear (garnished from this thread and PM's) that the offers are directly related to the years in, I'm happy to be corrected; i.e. ATCs with 5 years are being offered 5th level (band, if you like) and those with 9, offered 9th level etc.
Re the bond, seems that those who have objected have got it down to 3 years; I'd be pushing for more (or less really).
AI & RAC/OPS, do you know each other? Or are you poms (wild guess) going to meet for the first time in Melbourne?
Join Date: Apr 2000
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AI & myself are long-time mates though not working at the same unit at present. We should on the same course, too, which is a bonus.
Pay-wise, I've been in the game 15yrs now; shame there isn't a level 15!
ap
Pay-wise, I've been in the game 15yrs now; shame there isn't a level 15!
ap
Join Date: Sep 2001
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From a passing comment on here I am assuming that one of the expat Aussies from Europe got offered a position but only speculating. Personally I didn't apply as I am not ready to come home yet.
The thing I found very strange was the few Aussies I know that did apply all had TAATS experience and have been working very busy airspace in the Middle East since leaving Australia, yet were found to be unsuitable. Maybe I am missing something but I would have thought that the quickest way to fill some slots would have been to reemploy ATCO's who not only know the system being used but also know a fair bit about the airspace and local ways of doing things.
Anyway good luck to all that are going. Enjoy
The thing I found very strange was the few Aussies I know that did apply all had TAATS experience and have been working very busy airspace in the Middle East since leaving Australia, yet were found to be unsuitable. Maybe I am missing something but I would have thought that the quickest way to fill some slots would have been to reemploy ATCO's who not only know the system being used but also know a fair bit about the airspace and local ways of doing things.
Anyway good luck to all that are going. Enjoy
Join Date: May 2007
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I'm just replying to SM4 Pirate. I only know RAC/OPS through pprune and yes I am a pom, don,t think he is though. I have an Aussie fiancee and our daughter has Australian Citizenship so the bonding doesn't really matter to me - if I come back to England it will be by myself, she's had enough rain!
I'm in one of those moods
Join Date: Jan 2004
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.. you know their game ANSA .... they would employ a blind, 3 legged dog (no offence to those with a gig ) rather than send a signal to Aussie controllers that returning home would be easy .. and therefore so would leaving ... 
.
... I don't reckon they will have that luxury for much longer
) rather than send a signal to Aussie controllers that returning home would be easy .. and therefore so would leaving ... .
... I don't reckon they will have that luxury for much longer
Join Date: May 2003
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...it's also against ALP policy, which is somewhat significant with a Federal election looming.
In regard to this particular matter, in a quiet conversation last month, an ALP staffer stated:
"It's ALP policy to support foreign migration to Australia for work... but not at the expense of Australian jobs."
In regard to this particular matter, in a quiet conversation last month, an ALP staffer stated:
"It's ALP policy to support foreign migration to Australia for work... but not at the expense of Australian jobs."
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Local Aussie Jobs
Does anyone know of any offers to local Aussies? I know a whole bunch put in applications and got interviews but it seems as though no offers were forthcoming. Having said that the o/s offers have been coming in slowly and randomly....
I was kind of under the impression that jobs should be offered locally and only offered o/s if they couldn't be filled locally?
I was kind of under the impression that jobs should be offered locally and only offered o/s if they couldn't be filled locally?
Join Date: Mar 2007
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[quote]Thinking about living in Palm Beach or Mermaid Waters, is that commute reasonable?[quote]
Palmy and Mermaid are too far away, about 2 hour commute at least each way in normal traffic. May be a little less if you are on shift at wierd times (quite possible). There are a few beach suburbs in Brisbane but not as nice as the coast. Bribie Island is much closer or even Redcliffe.
Palmy and Mermaid are too far away, about 2 hour commute at least each way in normal traffic. May be a little less if you are on shift at wierd times (quite possible). There are a few beach suburbs in Brisbane but not as nice as the coast. Bribie Island is much closer or even Redcliffe.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Airservices Australia - Global Recruitment Disaster?
They (Asa) don't know what they write... and obviously one hand does not know what the other's doin...
After confirmed emails, finally got a letter of employement for desired destination. But there were some errors in the following paperwork concerning different commencement dates and final location! Did confirm some already confirmed things... and suddenly they (AsA) changed things to the opposite... strange, strange, very strange...
...so I did refuse. Out of the game, ciao
After confirmed emails, finally got a letter of employement for desired destination. But there were some errors in the following paperwork concerning different commencement dates and final location! Did confirm some already confirmed things... and suddenly they (AsA) changed things to the opposite... strange, strange, very strange... ...so I did refuse. Out of the game, ciao
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: PommyLand - but I'll be back!
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Amazing isn't it? They just don't listen! Read my previous posts re. Asa. Without reiterating I can only second all that Ozzie ATCO and AirnoservicesAustralia have said all through this thread.
Beware: AsA will go out of there way to ensure that you are shafted - if you ever get there.
Beware: AsA will go out of there way to ensure that you are shafted - if you ever get there.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Hear me Roar!!`
Check my contributions. I am VERY new to PPRUNE. I only logged on to keep people from making the same mistake I did. I will answer any questions that do not compromise my identity. Gutless I know, but honest. This is already much more than you can expect from AsA. Stay away. They are appalling. No leadership. Lies. Get everything in writing. EVERYTHING. I can't dumb it down more than that.
Do not come over for less than:
APP: $110 000 AUD
TWR: $The same. Do not let them bull**** you.
Sydney tower is ABSOLUTELY HURTING at the moment. We are heamoraging with retirements. Cairns is the same. I hear Melbourne is not far behind.
AsA needs you more than you need them. Ask yourself why AsA would need to sponser overseas ATCO's if they are so good? RAAF controllers will not work for them and civvies have learnt how to read the paper.
Stay away. They're terrible.
Do not come over for less than:
APP: $110 000 AUD
TWR: $The same. Do not let them bull**** you.
Sydney tower is ABSOLUTELY HURTING at the moment. We are heamoraging with retirements. Cairns is the same. I hear Melbourne is not far behind.
AsA needs you more than you need them. Ask yourself why AsA would need to sponser overseas ATCO's if they are so good? RAAF controllers will not work for them and civvies have learnt how to read the paper.
Stay away. They're terrible.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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dont come you'll regret it!!
I have to second what Aussie Atco said re his prior post.
You would have to be bloody balmy to consider working for these gits..ASA. They will shaft you at every turn, yes I know some of you need to move because of security or weather (eg Seffricans, Poms etc), but think hard about this. If any of you have worked for a major ANS provider like Serco, ATNS, Navcanada, NATS etc then you should know what you are in for.
I know this because I have worked for ASA for the best part of a quarter of a century, and we are still being f..ked over by the management. i believe that they intentionally go about their business in this manner to keep the troops morale low which means they will over time eventually achieve their aims, of a substantially non unionised, low paid workforce.
The only solution to this for ASA to be bought back into the fold as a government department. Throw away these bloody AWA's, throw away these bloody managerial contracts with bonuses (because that is what has caused the system to get to the point it has, because the bloody managers dont want more staff as it will stuff their budget and they will not get their bonuses.... that s it in a nutshell.
And also as ozzie atco said, GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING, SIGNED BY THE RELEVANT MANAGER ON A COMPANY LETTERHEAD AND BE PREPARED TO USE IT IF REQUIRED YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
re the comment about the retirements, I remember back in the late 80's and mid 90's they were acutely aware of the problems of retirements of the baby boomer generation of controllers and that it would really get bad from around 2005/6.....and low and behold it is happening just as predicted. Bloody great management decisions there for all to see, NOT
If you end up coming good luck to you because you are going to need it.
cheers
Join Date: Jul 2003
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While the points made about AsA are entirely accurate, if you just turn up, do your stints at the console, get everything in writing, tin plate your arse, go home and enjoy life, you will be pretty happy in either Brisbane or Melbourne.
Bashing your head against the wall trying to get things changed or done is just going to get you no where. You will have an even worse time if you end up being involved in anything other than live Air traffic Control. Instructing, Training Specialist duties, projects, Work Place Assessing, On the Job Trainer etc are a complete waste of your time for absolutely no reward and unwanted grief from the pole climbers and folder carriers.
Airservices had created entire generations of controllers who just don't give a sh!t anymore about anything other than their own day to day operational performance and that is a huge loss for the company if the realise it or not.
Bashing your head against the wall trying to get things changed or done is just going to get you no where. You will have an even worse time if you end up being involved in anything other than live Air traffic Control. Instructing, Training Specialist duties, projects, Work Place Assessing, On the Job Trainer etc are a complete waste of your time for absolutely no reward and unwanted grief from the pole climbers and folder carriers.
Airservices had created entire generations of controllers who just don't give a sh!t anymore about anything other than their own day to day operational performance and that is a huge loss for the company if the realise it or not.