NATS ATCO Pay Deal Accepted
Join Date: Oct 2004
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When I was at the college the car park was full of pretty decent motors (mine included) People will survive on £10 they'll just have to wait til they validate before buying the beamer!
Join Date: Dec 1999
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Missing the point
I think that all 'us' valid controllers may be completly missing the point here! The Red Barron is a very smart guy....what is he actually up to? Well who has all the power in NATS at the minute......ATCOs.....how do you get round that....well you flood the market place with student ATCOs, paying them as little as possible and hope as many as possible get through...even if you loose a few along the way it does not matter....you have only lost £10,000! Then you hope all these student ATCOs validate, asap and then, over time, you have the ATCOs by the short and curlies....time to take the medicine again..... 
Join Date: Nov 2002
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"250 Kts
Aberdeen did not get a visit from Prospect - just an e-mailed PowerPoint presentation.....
DD"
I may be speaking out of turn but the blame may lay at the door of your local rep. I know for a fact that a member of my unit had booked a day to come and 'present' the pay deal to Aberdeen but when he rang 2 days before to confirm interest nobody new about it as the local rep hadn't promulgated it. He therefore cancelled which is why you only recieved an email presentation.
Aberdeen did not get a visit from Prospect - just an e-mailed PowerPoint presentation.....
DD"
I may be speaking out of turn but the blame may lay at the door of your local rep. I know for a fact that a member of my unit had booked a day to come and 'present' the pay deal to Aberdeen but when he rang 2 days before to confirm interest nobody new about it as the local rep hadn't promulgated it. He therefore cancelled which is why you only recieved an email presentation.
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Originally Posted by 250 kts
So which units didn't get a vote? I know our reps went off on a trip for at least 4 days and those units were well north of Watford and in fact Hadrians Wall. Not sure that should have been the responsiblilty of my local reps though.
Surely it would be down to the unit reps to chase up any perceived lack of attention.
Maybe we should have a poll on whether your unit got a brief or not. Come on stag1, put your money where you mouth is and name a few units that didn't get a brief.
Surely it would be down to the unit reps to chase up any perceived lack of attention.
Maybe we should have a poll on whether your unit got a brief or not. Come on stag1, put your money where you mouth is and name a few units that didn't get a brief.
I specifically asked for a "few units"
Your claim was that alot of ATCOs at the regional airports were left without presentation because Prospect couldn't be bothered. Well it would appear that Aberdeen didn't get a presentation for whatever reason. That would mean that on a 68% turnout and a unit complement of around 60 maybe 40 votes could have been influenced by that presentation-and that is assuming that more than around 30% of the staff actually bothered to go to the brief. This is the number on my watch that could be bothered and I don't think we're significantly different to any other unit.
I still think you should take it up locally as it does sound as if an attempt was made but a communication break down led to it not taking place.
Not sure why the other 550 people failed to register a vote though.
Join Date: Apr 2005
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your speaking out of turn ,I knew of the brief well in advance as everyone else in the unit did,but the date kept changing until eventually cancelled.Another worrying thing is,that if you look at the percentage of non-members in Aberdeen compares to other units its quite high,and it continues to rise because of prospect's neglect.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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The way that Aberdeen has been treated over the years is only making Prospect's position weaker.Atco 3 downgrading,followed by the ridiculous Banding has caused people to resign from the Union.You can't blame people,after being treated like 4th class Atcos compared with other units.
For whatever reason,not briefing a unit this size,is more or less what we expect for our union.{S}cottish {F}ootball {A}ssociation! I'm still in Prospect,by only just.It certainly is not worth it anymore.
For whatever reason,not briefing a unit this size,is more or less what we expect for our union.{S}cottish {F}ootball {A}ssociation! I'm still in Prospect,by only just.It certainly is not worth it anymore.
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Not sure which bit is factually incorrect.
We have established that Aberdeen seems to have been the ONLY unit without a brief.
A date was arranged but subsequently failed to materialise for whatever reason. It doesn't sound like a lack of desire from the central union's position though.
What % of non-members are there?-if it is significantly higher than average then I would agree that a visit from the "big players" would be sensible.
I still believe that your insinuation that Prospect deliberately disenfranchised a number of the regional units and that that significantly contributed to the 600 who couldn't be bothered to vote should be withdrawn.
I assume that you have now actively arranged a full briefing by your unit rep to see the finer points of this deal and what it will mean to you and more importantly that you will canvass and urge your colleagues to turn up at that briefing.
We have established that Aberdeen seems to have been the ONLY unit without a brief.
A date was arranged but subsequently failed to materialise for whatever reason. It doesn't sound like a lack of desire from the central union's position though.
What % of non-members are there?-if it is significantly higher than average then I would agree that a visit from the "big players" would be sensible.
I still believe that your insinuation that Prospect deliberately disenfranchised a number of the regional units and that that significantly contributed to the 600 who couldn't be bothered to vote should be withdrawn.
I assume that you have now actively arranged a full briefing by your unit rep to see the finer points of this deal and what it will mean to you and more importantly that you will canvass and urge your colleagues to turn up at that briefing.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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250 kts.
I would love to see Big Players come here and explain themselves. Airport Atcos, have to work with 4 instersecting runways,a huge mix of traffic,and it has 4 terminals.We also have to validate on Radar,with Class A,D,F,G airspace,a huge mix of traffic,getting constantly bounced by the military.Virtually none of this counts with Banding!
Guess what ? We did get over £21K LESS than a Thames Radar Atco.Single discipline.The pay deal has made the differences bigger.Sure come and explain it please,cos I don't get it.
I would love to see Big Players come here and explain themselves. Airport Atcos, have to work with 4 instersecting runways,a huge mix of traffic,and it has 4 terminals.We also have to validate on Radar,with Class A,D,F,G airspace,a huge mix of traffic,getting constantly bounced by the military.Virtually none of this counts with Banding!
Guess what ? We did get over £21K LESS than a Thames Radar Atco.Single discipline.The pay deal has made the differences bigger.Sure come and explain it please,cos I don't get it.
Join Date: Aug 2000
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This was not about banding. This was about whether prospect could be "bothered" to give a presentation at the regional units and if that was the case did it have a bearing on the result.
Every unit has its' traffic issues-yours is no different.
It is my inderstanding that the good days for Thames radar ATCOs are over and that BECAUSE of the banding they are being required to validate elsewhere in TC.
Still waiting for evidence of other units not getting a brief.
It's really easy for you to sit behind this site and throw stones at central Prospect but I have to say again that locally it seems not to have been up to scratch. Maybe the time has come for a change of rep or additional support for him/her. I know- you could do it and spend lots of your own time doing union business like they probably do.
Every unit has its' traffic issues-yours is no different.
It is my inderstanding that the good days for Thames radar ATCOs are over and that BECAUSE of the banding they are being required to validate elsewhere in TC.
Still waiting for evidence of other units not getting a brief.
It's really easy for you to sit behind this site and throw stones at central Prospect but I have to say again that locally it seems not to have been up to scratch. Maybe the time has come for a change of rep or additional support for him/her. I know- you could do it and spend lots of your own time doing union business like they probably do.
Join Date: Apr 2005
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the bit about banding was only mentioned as an example of how prospect has let is members down in previous ocassions,no one said the rant was about banding.The rant is that they didn't bother to turn up,be it central's fault or our rep I couldn't care less,they both represent prospect.As for non-members well,someone else might know the exact answer but membership is declining rather than going the opposite way.Mind you its quite obvious that prospect don't give a toss about their membership in this parts,so I doubt they'll address the issue.
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250kts.
Banding is relevant to this issue.I understood that there was a way of changing Banding this pay deal,if it was wrong as here,or if traffic increased a lot;here again.So what do we get ;zip.Mention it to Prospect and it's like your speaking Double Dutch.
Correct me if I'm wrong,but if someone validates another sector at TC,it is still using one discipline.Approach Radar? Here you have to have Tower,Radar,and do procedural approach on a night shift.That's 2 disciplines and an in-house course.
It's just with a unit this size,that the image given out by Prospect is very bad ,on top of being stitched up in the past.Your on the top of the world,don't count and we don't care.Your Band 2 face front and shut up,and we'll give the money to guys who earn the most anyway.Sorry but I pay them money to represent me
Banding is relevant to this issue.I understood that there was a way of changing Banding this pay deal,if it was wrong as here,or if traffic increased a lot;here again.So what do we get ;zip.Mention it to Prospect and it's like your speaking Double Dutch.
Correct me if I'm wrong,but if someone validates another sector at TC,it is still using one discipline.Approach Radar? Here you have to have Tower,Radar,and do procedural approach on a night shift.That's 2 disciplines and an in-house course.
It's just with a unit this size,that the image given out by Prospect is very bad ,on top of being stitched up in the past.Your on the top of the world,don't count and we don't care.Your Band 2 face front and shut up,and we'll give the money to guys who earn the most anyway.Sorry but I pay them money to represent me
Join Date: Sep 2002
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I wonder how much longer this thread should be kept going.
I didn't vote in favour of the last pay deal for two reasons, the fact it was 3 years and my great unease over the student issue. The actual pay deal I am more than happy with and it is such a shame that what we are actually going to get paid is in some ways overlooked.
I am however with throwadyce over the banding issue and i think many who are not Band5s will always feel this way. We pay exactly the same amount to the union but very much feel , both in terms of NATS and Prospect, second class citizens.
Trying to get new equipment, or even anything done at the Airports relies upon your unit having a decent Airport company much of the time. Aberdeen is also not alone in doing a far greater job than maybe some realise, other so called Airports also do far greater functions controlling Class A airways and so much more besides.
A motion was passed by the Union over 2 years ago about getting units who do more than the approach function to be reassessed for banding, it has never happened. I don't believe NATS will do it either, why should they when they get so much done on the cheap.
250kts there is so much anger out there from the regionals with so many of us feeling let down by the union and the Company,whilst you may wonder why banding has come up I am not at all surprised.
I didn't vote in favour of the last pay deal for two reasons, the fact it was 3 years and my great unease over the student issue. The actual pay deal I am more than happy with and it is such a shame that what we are actually going to get paid is in some ways overlooked.
I am however with throwadyce over the banding issue and i think many who are not Band5s will always feel this way. We pay exactly the same amount to the union but very much feel , both in terms of NATS and Prospect, second class citizens.
Trying to get new equipment, or even anything done at the Airports relies upon your unit having a decent Airport company much of the time. Aberdeen is also not alone in doing a far greater job than maybe some realise, other so called Airports also do far greater functions controlling Class A airways and so much more besides.
A motion was passed by the Union over 2 years ago about getting units who do more than the approach function to be reassessed for banding, it has never happened. I don't believe NATS will do it either, why should they when they get so much done on the cheap.
250kts there is so much anger out there from the regionals with so many of us feeling let down by the union and the Company,whilst you may wonder why banding has come up I am not at all surprised.
Join Date: Nov 2002
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"Then don't stay in the union. A mass exodus would get you noticed"
Very constructive comment from a band fiver!! There has been an exodus from Aberdeen as has previously been mentioned. I'm just waiting for the old 'if you don't like it then move to Heathrow, Swanwick etc'.
Thanks Mossy
Very constructive comment from a band fiver!! There has been an exodus from Aberdeen as has previously been mentioned. I'm just waiting for the old 'if you don't like it then move to Heathrow, Swanwick etc'.
Thanks Mossy
Naughty but Nice
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If you don't like it then why not move to Heathrow/Swanwick etc?
Sorry, couldn't resist it.....
However, on a slightly more serious note - why not consider becoming a rep yourself? Then you could represent the views of the folk where you are who you don't feel are being taken much notice of at the moment. Slightly more constructive than just ranting, or declining membership or whatever.
Reps work blooming hard in my experience. Most of our guys were out doing briefings all over the place to ensure everyone understood what was going on. I don't know the ins and outs of why PD didn't, but perhaps you could prevent it happening again?
Personally I prefer that we stand together with the union, if necessary against the management, splitting up and infighting doesn't get us a long way. I appreciate that many feel that things are unfair in places at the moment, I would say do something other than just whinge about it!
Cheers,
N
"Keep smiling, it makes people wonder what you're up to..."
Sorry, couldn't resist it.....
However, on a slightly more serious note - why not consider becoming a rep yourself? Then you could represent the views of the folk where you are who you don't feel are being taken much notice of at the moment. Slightly more constructive than just ranting, or declining membership or whatever.
Reps work blooming hard in my experience. Most of our guys were out doing briefings all over the place to ensure everyone understood what was going on. I don't know the ins and outs of why PD didn't, but perhaps you could prevent it happening again?
Personally I prefer that we stand together with the union, if necessary against the management, splitting up and infighting doesn't get us a long way. I appreciate that many feel that things are unfair in places at the moment, I would say do something other than just whinge about it!
Cheers,
N
"Keep smiling, it makes people wonder what you're up to..."
You beat me to it!!!
