Arrogant Unobliging ATC ers
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Arrogant Unobliging ATC ers
Well I fly East -West and back many many times
Why have these people gotta be the
most arrogant and if you listen to them rudest ATC ers I've ever had to listen to.
And I have friends in ATC in Europe FAR and Mid East.
I've thought this for several years now but it's finally really P***ing me off just listening to them.
Who ? any ATC ers heard the same
I'll be back
Why have these people gotta be the
most arrogant and if you listen to them rudest ATC ers I've ever had to listen to.
And I have friends in ATC in Europe FAR and Mid East.
I've thought this for several years now but it's finally really P***ing me off just listening to them.
Who ? any ATC ers heard the same
I'll be back
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Speedbrake Lever,
I know the ATCO`s in DXB very well and although I appreciate what you`re saying let`s not tar everyone with the same brush. The majority are very good and are accomodating to requests.....ie.opposite direction runway,...etc.
The mix of traffic at DXB means there are many diferent crews from all over the world, some of which will try anyones patience.
Having said that there are the minority that are abrupt and ise very non-standard phraseology. Can you be more specific...ie accent/nationality?
I know the ATCO`s in DXB very well and although I appreciate what you`re saying let`s not tar everyone with the same brush. The majority are very good and are accomodating to requests.....ie.opposite direction runway,...etc.
The mix of traffic at DXB means there are many diferent crews from all over the world, some of which will try anyones patience.
Having said that there are the minority that are abrupt and ise very non-standard phraseology. Can you be more specific...ie accent/nationality?
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Oh I can, it seems to be the same 3 or 4 I must come across.
But be it on Ground, Tower or Approach I must get them and the dressing down these people give to A/C,
Not only to all the Various ex Russians but
to BR, CX , GF, Oman Air that I have heard
Yes its not all, I'll find out their Nationalities if you like but I'd say either British (Irish), maybe S.A.
An example : Any Speed Restriction ?
We have a 250 kt. restriction at Dubai
But its the Tone, perhaps some non national English speaking Pilots won't get the Tone
I am not talking about their job, just their
arrogance mostly particulary to foreign
operators
It has only seemed to be around in the last year or so
but what I heard about the QNH setting and the Atis a short while ago just rose my skin
and not to a CIS outfit either
a far eastern one, rather well known.
But be it on Ground, Tower or Approach I must get them and the dressing down these people give to A/C,
Not only to all the Various ex Russians but
to BR, CX , GF, Oman Air that I have heard
Yes its not all, I'll find out their Nationalities if you like but I'd say either British (Irish), maybe S.A.
An example : Any Speed Restriction ?
We have a 250 kt. restriction at Dubai
But its the Tone, perhaps some non national English speaking Pilots won't get the Tone
I am not talking about their job, just their
arrogance mostly particulary to foreign
operators
It has only seemed to be around in the last year or so
but what I heard about the QNH setting and the Atis a short while ago just rose my skin
and not to a CIS outfit either
a far eastern one, rather well known.
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Speedbrake,
Okay, I know what your saying, but as I said before the VAST majority of controllers at DXB are there to do the best job they can under very trying circumstances. Circumstances that crews operating in and out of DXB will not be aware of, eg.....low morale, un-reliable equipment and a poor employee/management relationship. These aren`t excuses but contributing factors to ATCO`s short fuses.
Okay, I know what your saying, but as I said before the VAST majority of controllers at DXB are there to do the best job they can under very trying circumstances. Circumstances that crews operating in and out of DXB will not be aware of, eg.....low morale, un-reliable equipment and a poor employee/management relationship. These aren`t excuses but contributing factors to ATCO`s short fuses.
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OK I take your point
as I said its not all, and I'm not judging their competence
Its a pity they have come across like this cos it takes a lot to go to writing about this as against previously just talking about it.
I'll just leave it at that.
I didn't know about the various things you mention but with the sort of posts in this network on Pprune you'd think Dubai was heaven on earth the way people talk obviously it isn't
as I said its not all, and I'm not judging their competence
Its a pity they have come across like this cos it takes a lot to go to writing about this as against previously just talking about it.
I'll just leave it at that.
I didn't know about the various things you mention but with the sort of posts in this network on Pprune you'd think Dubai was heaven on earth the way people talk obviously it isn't
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Speedbrake,
Dubai certainly isn't the land of milk and honey for ATCs, and this is first-hand info! Low morale caused by new 'state of the art' equipment that doesn't live up to its sales pitch, a management that does not really care as long as the company's contract stays intact, an airport that changes virtually daily due to construction, and Emirates flying staff continually getting performance bonuses while ATC, without whom these bonuses would often not be acheived, don't even get an Emirates rebate that is cheaper than an 'across the counter' airfare by way of thanks. (For those of you that don't know - Emirates Airlines and Dubai Airport are basically one in the same.)
Add the above to the 'summer surprise' (45 degrees!!) and the road rage getting to work; you should count yourself lucky to get away with a bit of 'attitude' for asking a dumb-assed question about speed control when it is published!
Glum Weeper,
One would hope you know the Dubai controllers very well - aren't you one!!!!
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My views are personal and DEFINITELY don't reflect those of my employer!
Dubai certainly isn't the land of milk and honey for ATCs, and this is first-hand info! Low morale caused by new 'state of the art' equipment that doesn't live up to its sales pitch, a management that does not really care as long as the company's contract stays intact, an airport that changes virtually daily due to construction, and Emirates flying staff continually getting performance bonuses while ATC, without whom these bonuses would often not be acheived, don't even get an Emirates rebate that is cheaper than an 'across the counter' airfare by way of thanks. (For those of you that don't know - Emirates Airlines and Dubai Airport are basically one in the same.)
Add the above to the 'summer surprise' (45 degrees!!) and the road rage getting to work; you should count yourself lucky to get away with a bit of 'attitude' for asking a dumb-assed question about speed control when it is published!
Glum Weeper,
One would hope you know the Dubai controllers very well - aren't you one!!!!
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My views are personal and DEFINITELY don't reflect those of my employer!
Guest
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I don't ask for Speed Variances normally
Well not at Dubai cos I know what I'd get
But those that do are asking like a
request
but that's what this is all about
and your assertion that its dumb assed to
ASK just shows what I mean.
You have you're busy times there I agree
but you also have times when you're not
take out your Rage on Emirates then
Bye Bye
Well not at Dubai cos I know what I'd get
But those that do are asking like a
request
but that's what this is all about
and your assertion that its dumb assed to
ASK just shows what I mean.
You have you're busy times there I agree
but you also have times when you're not
take out your Rage on Emirates then
Bye Bye
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Hi There Speed brake lever,
Have you ever tried to meet/ask the ATCO'S in Dubai on a more personel level. Maybe you'll find them a far more social bunch than you think. AND AS FOR THEM BEING THE RUDEST AND MOST ARROGANT YOU HAVE EVER COME ACROSS ... hahahahahahahahaha.
Have you ever tried to meet/ask the ATCO'S in Dubai on a more personel level. Maybe you'll find them a far more social bunch than you think. AND AS FOR THEM BEING THE RUDEST AND MOST ARROGANT YOU HAVE EVER COME ACROSS ... hahahahahahahahaha.
Guest
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Hello, and yes I am also one of those who work at Dubai,
There are various factors at work here. Just to put things a little in perspective.
When an aircraft doing 320+ knots passing FL105 ask if there are any speed restrictions, I imagine there is sufficient reason to get just a little annoyed, especially when the ATC has said nothing wrt speed control.
When an aircraft has to wait for at least 4 or 5 other transmissions before they get responded to, it is anoying when their next request is for the opposite runway !!!
When one gives a heading after clearly and slowly using the callsign and speaking (specifically) clearly, and the pilot (of the correct a/c) says Uuuh was that for us, heading 300 ? then yes, I get a little annoyed. When all those events happen in the space of 2 minutes, I tend to let rip with a sarcastic comment like "Yes, runway 30 will be available in about 4 hours time, where would you like to hold?"
It is wrong to be sarcastic and abrupt on the frequency, but we ARE all human. I try my best to be formal and polite, it is NOT ALWAYS POSSIBLE.
There are various factors at work here. Just to put things a little in perspective.
When an aircraft doing 320+ knots passing FL105 ask if there are any speed restrictions, I imagine there is sufficient reason to get just a little annoyed, especially when the ATC has said nothing wrt speed control.
When an aircraft has to wait for at least 4 or 5 other transmissions before they get responded to, it is anoying when their next request is for the opposite runway !!!
When one gives a heading after clearly and slowly using the callsign and speaking (specifically) clearly, and the pilot (of the correct a/c) says Uuuh was that for us, heading 300 ? then yes, I get a little annoyed. When all those events happen in the space of 2 minutes, I tend to let rip with a sarcastic comment like "Yes, runway 30 will be available in about 4 hours time, where would you like to hold?"
It is wrong to be sarcastic and abrupt on the frequency, but we ARE all human. I try my best to be formal and polite, it is NOT ALWAYS POSSIBLE.
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Speedbrake Lever, only this morning I heard the following exchange:
NIGEL: Shannon NIGEL xxx requesting 370.
SNN: NIGEL xxx roger, I'll see what I can do.
SNN: OTHER zzz Shannon, what is your Mach setting at FL370?
OTH: Mach .80 Shannon.
SNN: Roger, thank you....NIGEL xxx what would be your Mach setting at 370?
NIGEL: That would be .84 Shannon.....but we can do anything you want.
SNN: Roger NIGEL xxx, I can offer you FL370 with speed restriction or FL390 unrestricted.
NIGEL: Ok Shannon, we'll take 370 with the speed restriction.
SNN: NIGEL xxx climb to FL370 and cruise at mach .80 or less.
pause.
NIGEL: Er, Shannon .80 is a little too slow for us, we'll stay at FL350 if that's OK?
I could just picture the poor fellow at Shannon banging his head on his console in desperation!! Face it Speedbrake, you drivers can be a bit blo*dy daft at times
NIGEL: Shannon NIGEL xxx requesting 370.
SNN: NIGEL xxx roger, I'll see what I can do.
SNN: OTHER zzz Shannon, what is your Mach setting at FL370?
OTH: Mach .80 Shannon.
SNN: Roger, thank you....NIGEL xxx what would be your Mach setting at 370?
NIGEL: That would be .84 Shannon.....but we can do anything you want.
SNN: Roger NIGEL xxx, I can offer you FL370 with speed restriction or FL390 unrestricted.
NIGEL: Ok Shannon, we'll take 370 with the speed restriction.
SNN: NIGEL xxx climb to FL370 and cruise at mach .80 or less.
pause.
NIGEL: Er, Shannon .80 is a little too slow for us, we'll stay at FL350 if that's OK?
I could just picture the poor fellow at Shannon banging his head on his console in desperation!! Face it Speedbrake, you drivers can be a bit blo*dy daft at times
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Being talked of is better than being ignored!
Yeah, I agree that some of my co-workers can get a bit agitated at times, but I think most of the time they are doing a fine job and oblige to any reasonable request.
I do apologise for our "arrogance" from time to time and rudeness in my opinion can never be justified. It does not suit any professional and I have heard some "extreme remarks" by some I work with. I would suggest that anyone unhappy with the service, phones up the supervisor and have a chat about it. Let me know if you need the number.
I hate to wash my laundry in public, but I think this time the shoe fits and if it is one's size, one should wear it! I leave myself open to a good bollocking from my mates now, but hopefully the message gets around. I always enjoy a bit of humour, but arrogance over the air is not acceptable.
Speedbrake Lever, thanks for the post and I would have felt worse if you doubted our competence! Next time you are planning a high speed descend , call us about 120 nm out and I am sure, traffic permitting, you will get a service with a smile!
Bye.
Yeah, I agree that some of my co-workers can get a bit agitated at times, but I think most of the time they are doing a fine job and oblige to any reasonable request.
I do apologise for our "arrogance" from time to time and rudeness in my opinion can never be justified. It does not suit any professional and I have heard some "extreme remarks" by some I work with. I would suggest that anyone unhappy with the service, phones up the supervisor and have a chat about it. Let me know if you need the number.
I hate to wash my laundry in public, but I think this time the shoe fits and if it is one's size, one should wear it! I leave myself open to a good bollocking from my mates now, but hopefully the message gets around. I always enjoy a bit of humour, but arrogance over the air is not acceptable.
Speedbrake Lever, thanks for the post and I would have felt worse if you doubted our competence! Next time you are planning a high speed descend , call us about 120 nm out and I am sure, traffic permitting, you will get a service with a smile!
Bye.
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Yakkity,
boss...no, perhaps second pretender to the STO position! Got to look good to management!
Reference the 'customer service' comments earlier in this discussion. The 'right' of a customer to receive a service is surely also bound by the responsibility of the customer not to abuse the system. If a blanket speed restriction is established, it is usually for a very good reason, and, at the discretion of the service provider, it would be removed (and in Dubai it usually is!). An extra call, quering the speed control when in a busy traffic situation, is not appreciated. Similarly the operators (KLM and GFA to name a couple) who, whether trying to be funny or not, ask for the non-active straight-in runway irrespective of the traffic situation, deserve nothing more than contempt, whether verbally or in thought alone!
As for the rudeness on frequency, agreed, it is not very professional. However, if operators into Dubai were aware of the trying circumstances in which ATCOs are operating, due mainly to the lack of concern shown by the ATC management regarding the continuos short-comings in the ATC system - both in operational instructions and equipment failures, perhaps they would be a little more patient. Hopefully they would also be a little less judgemental if the ATCO occasionally had a total sense of humour failure when confronted with a ridiculous request!
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My views are personal and DEFINITELY don't reflect those of my employer!
boss...no, perhaps second pretender to the STO position! Got to look good to management!
Reference the 'customer service' comments earlier in this discussion. The 'right' of a customer to receive a service is surely also bound by the responsibility of the customer not to abuse the system. If a blanket speed restriction is established, it is usually for a very good reason, and, at the discretion of the service provider, it would be removed (and in Dubai it usually is!). An extra call, quering the speed control when in a busy traffic situation, is not appreciated. Similarly the operators (KLM and GFA to name a couple) who, whether trying to be funny or not, ask for the non-active straight-in runway irrespective of the traffic situation, deserve nothing more than contempt, whether verbally or in thought alone!
As for the rudeness on frequency, agreed, it is not very professional. However, if operators into Dubai were aware of the trying circumstances in which ATCOs are operating, due mainly to the lack of concern shown by the ATC management regarding the continuos short-comings in the ATC system - both in operational instructions and equipment failures, perhaps they would be a little more patient. Hopefully they would also be a little less judgemental if the ATCO occasionally had a total sense of humour failure when confronted with a ridiculous request!
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My views are personal and DEFINITELY don't reflect those of my employer!
Guest
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Hey Speedbrake !!
just been there (DXB) two days ago
see what you mean !!
Manners ?
huh ! i reckon they're all single there
couldn't imagine too many people wanting to go for a drink with that lot
roll on Lagos !! didn't think I'd really ever say that
just been there (DXB) two days ago
see what you mean !!
Manners ?
huh ! i reckon they're all single there
couldn't imagine too many people wanting to go for a drink with that lot
roll on Lagos !! didn't think I'd really ever say that