Arrogant Unobliging ATC ers
Guest
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Hey Fweeeeep,
With all due respect, when you make one of those legendarily well enunciated calls of yours and 'we' (any pilot) ask, "Was that for XXXX?" NINE times out of TEN it is because either: (1) you mistakenly used a slight variation of our callsign. We are 99% sure you meant us, but 1% may mean too many dead peopl, so we HAVE to ask, or (2) your award winning 'transmission de resistance' WAS PARTIALLY BLOCKED!!! Because we want to keep the chatter down for you we just say, "Was that for...?" instead of, "You were blocked. Was that for...?" Getting "The Attitude" when ATC mispoke usually makes us laugh and say, "I sure wish I didn't make any mistakes, either!" to each other! Of course, sometimes we simply miss the call due to: a/c irregularity under discussion, meal service under discussion, new flight attendant uniform policy under discussion, overspeed horn under discussion (you get the idea). But, this happens less than you think. Next time, remember to turn down that scope so you can see your reflection in it. Maybe it was YOU!
Best wishes- I do have great respect for you guys and what you DO put up with. I wouldn't last a week!
Fokker28
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In a world full of people, only some want to fly. Isn't that crazy? -Seal
[This message has been edited by Fokker28 (edited 23 October 2000).]
With all due respect, when you make one of those legendarily well enunciated calls of yours and 'we' (any pilot) ask, "Was that for XXXX?" NINE times out of TEN it is because either: (1) you mistakenly used a slight variation of our callsign. We are 99% sure you meant us, but 1% may mean too many dead peopl, so we HAVE to ask, or (2) your award winning 'transmission de resistance' WAS PARTIALLY BLOCKED!!! Because we want to keep the chatter down for you we just say, "Was that for...?" instead of, "You were blocked. Was that for...?" Getting "The Attitude" when ATC mispoke usually makes us laugh and say, "I sure wish I didn't make any mistakes, either!" to each other! Of course, sometimes we simply miss the call due to: a/c irregularity under discussion, meal service under discussion, new flight attendant uniform policy under discussion, overspeed horn under discussion (you get the idea). But, this happens less than you think. Next time, remember to turn down that scope so you can see your reflection in it. Maybe it was YOU!
Best wishes- I do have great respect for you guys and what you DO put up with. I wouldn't last a week!
Fokker28
---------------
In a world full of people, only some want to fly. Isn't that crazy? -Seal
[This message has been edited by Fokker28 (edited 23 October 2000).]
Guest
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Well its sort of gone quiet on this one ok
But Avman as regards Mach speeds across the Pond, well yes i can see that 'll do your head in a bit
in the particular case your talking about its obvious it was a 74 they don't do .80
Md's and 777 don't like it too good either
75, 76, 330, 340 they do.
Well thats the Level- Cruise stuff
As regards Dubai, they don't do that
They are Approach Tower and Ground
I believe they receive control from Emirates Control on descent at about Fl 150(Trans Level) and hand you back about 10000 ft on the climbout
Yes they do have lots of planes from places where their command of English isn't great but Not all the time but a LOT the way they speak to these people their Tone is Crap
I notice it, perhaps these Foreigners !!!
don't
To save yourselves on the hassle then Dubai
declare by the Jepp charts, Notam, or on your automated ATIS that speed control is always in effect,
London has control but sometimes you can get a high speed if you ask admittedly not often
but they don't have an attitude problem or if they do they don't let it out,
oh Yes ! Forgot to mention Your Favouritism towards Emirates is outstanding
Are you guys living on your nerves there its so obvious.
We should all get our Commercial Depts to plan arriving and leaving Dubai when Emirates are all done with, its amusing to watch
But Avman as regards Mach speeds across the Pond, well yes i can see that 'll do your head in a bit
in the particular case your talking about its obvious it was a 74 they don't do .80
Md's and 777 don't like it too good either
75, 76, 330, 340 they do.
Well thats the Level- Cruise stuff
As regards Dubai, they don't do that
They are Approach Tower and Ground
I believe they receive control from Emirates Control on descent at about Fl 150(Trans Level) and hand you back about 10000 ft on the climbout
Yes they do have lots of planes from places where their command of English isn't great but Not all the time but a LOT the way they speak to these people their Tone is Crap
I notice it, perhaps these Foreigners !!!
don't
To save yourselves on the hassle then Dubai
declare by the Jepp charts, Notam, or on your automated ATIS that speed control is always in effect,
London has control but sometimes you can get a high speed if you ask admittedly not often
but they don't have an attitude problem or if they do they don't let it out,
oh Yes ! Forgot to mention Your Favouritism towards Emirates is outstanding
Are you guys living on your nerves there its so obvious.
We should all get our Commercial Depts to plan arriving and leaving Dubai when Emirates are all done with, its amusing to watch
Guest
Posts: n/a
Speedbrake lever,
Thought this thread had died due lack of interest, obviously not. After struggling with your poor grammar all I have to say is:
1. The speed restriction is published in the UAE AIP, but is usually lifted unless required.
2. Despite what you may think Emirates do NOT get priority. We get less rebate travel from then than anyone else!
3. Get a life!!
Thought this thread had died due lack of interest, obviously not. After struggling with your poor grammar all I have to say is:
1. The speed restriction is published in the UAE AIP, but is usually lifted unless required.
2. Despite what you may think Emirates do NOT get priority. We get less rebate travel from then than anyone else!
3. Get a life!!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Speedbrake Lever,
Emirates get priority - not in my five and a half years in Dubai. Perhaps a perception at certain times due to the number of Emirates start-ups and departures, but intentionally NO, deifinitely not! (In fact the converse may be true with some of the ATCOs.)
Speed restrictions are published in the Jepp as well as the UAE AIP (also found in the ICAO proceedures for type "C" airspace).
The guys in DXB do a great job under (at times) extremely trying circumstances. Next time you pass through DXB perhaps a visit to the Approach room and a chat would help you understand, and you would be less critical.
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My views are personal and DEFINITELY don't reflect those of my employer!
Emirates get priority - not in my five and a half years in Dubai. Perhaps a perception at certain times due to the number of Emirates start-ups and departures, but intentionally NO, deifinitely not! (In fact the converse may be true with some of the ATCOs.)
Speed restrictions are published in the Jepp as well as the UAE AIP (also found in the ICAO proceedures for type "C" airspace).
The guys in DXB do a great job under (at times) extremely trying circumstances. Next time you pass through DXB perhaps a visit to the Approach room and a chat would help you understand, and you would be less critical.
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My views are personal and DEFINITELY don't reflect those of my employer!
Guest
Posts: n/a
...I've been following this thread for a few days now and I'd like to chip in a couple of thoughts from personal experience....
In any busy ATC sector (..anywhere) some simple human factors should be taken into consideration:
ATCers subjected to continuous traffic demand tend to become irritable. The traffic saturation level differs from person to person, but it takes only one additional pilot (with a perfectly reasonable request sometimes..) to trigger the effect and from that moment R/T resembles a tug-o-war for frequency time.
In such a situation pilots should try to avoid unnecessary requests (eg. shortcuts) until frequency becomes again desaturated.
Another good practice is after changing frequency to another sector to monitor for a few seconds before transmitting, to avoid stepping onto someone else's transmission...
...frequency time can become a very precious and rare commodity.
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...time danaos et dona ferentes
In any busy ATC sector (..anywhere) some simple human factors should be taken into consideration:
ATCers subjected to continuous traffic demand tend to become irritable. The traffic saturation level differs from person to person, but it takes only one additional pilot (with a perfectly reasonable request sometimes..) to trigger the effect and from that moment R/T resembles a tug-o-war for frequency time.
In such a situation pilots should try to avoid unnecessary requests (eg. shortcuts) until frequency becomes again desaturated.
Another good practice is after changing frequency to another sector to monitor for a few seconds before transmitting, to avoid stepping onto someone else's transmission...
...frequency time can become a very precious and rare commodity.
------------------
...time danaos et dona ferentes
Guest
Posts: n/a
God I hate having to repeat myself
God I hate having to repeat myself
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[email protected]
"The views expressed here are a personal rant and rave and in no way reflect the views of my employer/s "
God I hate having to repeat myself
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[email protected]
"The views expressed here are a personal rant and rave and in no way reflect the views of my employer/s "
Guest
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Nothing beats a supercilious ticking-off at HRW when you've missed the fast turn-off.
Tower - "Ahhhh, Speebird ***, just a reminder, we are an extremely busy airport and we would really appreciate it if you expedited off the runway at the earliest opportunity before I sting you for £10 000 and, by the way, it is so inconvenient for me to have to spend so much time reminding you of the procedures bearing in mind that I am obviously far more important than you, you mere bus driver"
Speedbird *** - "Sorry for missing the turning but I don't suppose a anti-skid failure combined with some impressive wake turbulence would count as a reasonable excuse?"
[This message has been edited by smooth approach (edited 25 October 2000).]
Tower - "Ahhhh, Speebird ***, just a reminder, we are an extremely busy airport and we would really appreciate it if you expedited off the runway at the earliest opportunity before I sting you for £10 000 and, by the way, it is so inconvenient for me to have to spend so much time reminding you of the procedures bearing in mind that I am obviously far more important than you, you mere bus driver"
Speedbird *** - "Sorry for missing the turning but I don't suppose a anti-skid failure combined with some impressive wake turbulence would count as a reasonable excuse?"
[This message has been edited by smooth approach (edited 25 October 2000).]
Guest
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well...I tried to refrain from replying to this post, but after a few glasses of water, having spent eight hours struggling to retain some form of order within our skies,I would like to offer the following remarks...
Speed control is published..don't shoot yourself in the foot by asking if there is any. The correct call is "request high speed below 10,000ft" then we KNOW you're a professional like the rest of us.
We get exceptionally high RT loading here so, if your given instructions just do it and keep the RT to a minimum (LISTEN to what is going on!)
-not so long ago a highly respected far east airline used to perpetually ask for a straight in approach when they were told they were 5 or 6 in the sequence for the opposite runway...is that intelligent or what???-
Tropical Storm....Lagos?...you must be pulling my chain...good luck squire!!!!
Late Landing....you can say what you like now unless you're planning on coming back!!
My water bottle is empty and I'm off to bed 'cos I've got to do it all AGAIN tomorrow...
Speed control is published..don't shoot yourself in the foot by asking if there is any. The correct call is "request high speed below 10,000ft" then we KNOW you're a professional like the rest of us.
We get exceptionally high RT loading here so, if your given instructions just do it and keep the RT to a minimum (LISTEN to what is going on!)
-not so long ago a highly respected far east airline used to perpetually ask for a straight in approach when they were told they were 5 or 6 in the sequence for the opposite runway...is that intelligent or what???-
Tropical Storm....Lagos?...you must be pulling my chain...good luck squire!!!!
Late Landing....you can say what you like now unless you're planning on coming back!!
My water bottle is empty and I'm off to bed 'cos I've got to do it all AGAIN tomorrow...
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hey "smooth approach"
Don't blame us. YOUR companies insist we shove 'em down the ILS like Sardines, and YOUR companies wanted the Minimum Runway Occupancy instructions so WE could make them more money.
I suppose it will all get better when we are owned by the airline, but Hey that's a whole new post.
On a concillatory note smooth approach, come visit us and see the pressures, and remember, most of us try not to bollock anyone since we are all trying to achieve the same thing, the only difference being that pilots only look 25 degrees each side of straight ahead. Oh No - another new topic - I must stop doing that.
Don't blame us. YOUR companies insist we shove 'em down the ILS like Sardines, and YOUR companies wanted the Minimum Runway Occupancy instructions so WE could make them more money.
I suppose it will all get better when we are owned by the airline, but Hey that's a whole new post.
On a concillatory note smooth approach, come visit us and see the pressures, and remember, most of us try not to bollock anyone since we are all trying to achieve the same thing, the only difference being that pilots only look 25 degrees each side of straight ahead. Oh No - another new topic - I must stop doing that.
