Is there really a shortage....... (Merged)
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Is there really a shortage.......
Reading all the posts about who is going where and why it occurs to me that I am confused as to wheather there is an ATCO shortage or not.
If there is can anyone offer advice on how to get the employers to acknowlege the fact and be forthcomming with reasonable,grown up, terms and conditions.
We all like a winge but I would be intrested on the learned companies view on the future with regards to pay, or should we all just keep our heads down incase we are seen as a disruptive influence and the free tea is removed.
AAK 10
If there is can anyone offer advice on how to get the employers to acknowlege the fact and be forthcomming with reasonable,grown up, terms and conditions.
We all like a winge but I would be intrested on the learned companies view on the future with regards to pay, or should we all just keep our heads down incase we are seen as a disruptive influence and the free tea is removed.
AAK 10
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Do a search on Google under air traffic controller shortage and you might get some firm data. Found this Eurocontrol survey from 1998, but I am sure with more time and diligence you could find a more up to date survey ....
Eurocontrol Survey
Eurocontrol Survey
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It could be that the full effect of a 'shortage' will become apparent in time. At the moment there is no surplus, thats for sure.
I have found that employers will admit within managerial circles that a shortage exists but will play down the potential problem at staff level. Obviously that is because any admission on their behalf provides a catalyst for higher salary demands and staff loss to higher paid units. If I were allowed to raise salaries significantly then I am sure I could poach staff from other units. However, that will be the last course of action that most managements will take.
The crunch will come when some units have to start restricting traffic flow.
Regards
If there is can anyone offer advice on how to get the employers to acknowlege the fact and be forthcomming with reasonable,grown up, terms and conditions.
The crunch will come when some units have to start restricting traffic flow.
Regards
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Heathrow Director
<<<Last I heard shortages at EGMC, EGMH, EGHH, EGBE, EGHD, EGKB>>>
LTCC??
Didn't mention NATS ,thought it was just about non state, Nats are always short!
SATCO Biggin Hill start poaching everyone else is, ( well maybe )
Question for all, How many years ago was it that units were offering a substantial sum of cash to stay put? Could units be heading that way again? If these Airports want to play with the BIG boys then management are going to have to recognise an ATCOs worth, if not in salary a decent package etc
Nite flite 01 CVs don't mean good ATCO's
<<<Last I heard shortages at EGMC, EGMH, EGHH, EGBE, EGHD, EGKB>>>
LTCC??
Didn't mention NATS ,thought it was just about non state, Nats are always short!
SATCO Biggin Hill start poaching everyone else is, ( well maybe )
Question for all, How many years ago was it that units were offering a substantial sum of cash to stay put? Could units be heading that way again? If these Airports want to play with the BIG boys then management are going to have to recognise an ATCOs worth, if not in salary a decent package etc
Nite flite 01 CVs don't mean good ATCO's
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keep our heads down and avoid being a disruptive influence
rds grind you down anarchy is the only way forward. Management will screw us for every penny they can get away with.
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In the US there is a controller shortage (the govt. says otherwise of course.) but as usual, there is NO shortage of applicants. We have them waiting in droves to get hired. The govt. is just saving money and not hiring anyone right now. We hope to see about 600 to 800 get hired in the October time frame, but I am not holding my breath.
regards
Scott
regards
Scott
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Question for all, How many years ago was it that units were offering a substantial sum of cash to stay put?
Looks like the rot is setting in already.
Didn't mention NATS ,thought it was just about non state, Nats are always short!
SB
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EGBE " Bonus" believed to be 1k. Take tax off that and what have you got- an insult.
These posts are all good stuff but the main question is still unanswered - how is effective negotiation possible when Airport Managers are still in denial over a shortage and will not consider reasonable terms and conditions?
AAK10
These posts are all good stuff but the main question is still unanswered - how is effective negotiation possible when Airport Managers are still in denial over a shortage and will not consider reasonable terms and conditions?
AAK10
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Yellow Plane.
Make that 20 then I believe PK are after two and check out Flight Int next week for two more.
Ocean Wun Z
Effective negotiation is destroyed by inexperienced or part rated Atco`s so desperate for jobs or positions close to home that they will take whatever they are offered competitive or not. Things aren`t helped by some old timers who don`t give a damn about pay or conditions for new starts as long as they`re unaffected.
Make that 20 then I believe PK are after two and check out Flight Int next week for two more.
Ocean Wun Z
Effective negotiation is destroyed by inexperienced or part rated Atco`s so desperate for jobs or positions close to home that they will take whatever they are offered competitive or not. Things aren`t helped by some old timers who don`t give a damn about pay or conditions for new starts as long as they`re unaffected.
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Again, the same arguement crops up. Airlines/Airports are run by Accountants who have no idea about operational matters, nor do they have the foresight to budget for future staffing. I forsee within the next couple of years that some airports will have to either spend loads of money training staff as there will not be any controllers around or they will have to limit the services provided to the airlines. The latter is the favourite due to the inept management policies. Another way around the staff shortage would be for the government to step in and say "hang on, what's going on with our aviation industry. Why do we have such a shortage of qualified staff". Unfortunately this will not happen and the industry will still be run by financial idiots and any shortage will be dealt with on reaction rather than prediction.
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Tower Ranger-your argument about 'old timers' sounds familiar, and I will say the same as I say to those at my unit complaining-what are the existing staff supposed to do to prevent new comers from accepting a contract on less pay and leave?-go on strike to stop someone from taking the job?-its not an ideal situation, but while managment can fill those positions it will not change
people that take those jobs knowing the score, get trained up and then spend all their time complaining grate just a little!
people that take those jobs knowing the score, get trained up and then spend all their time complaining grate just a little!
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Add at least one more to that list....
After much debate, I have just about convinced my Board of our need to recruit 1 extra ATCO with effect from April next year.
I'll need a fully rated ATCO, but with a salary currently under £40K on offer, I don't expect to be innundated with CV's....
I'll need a fully rated ATCO, but with a salary currently under £40K on offer, I don't expect to be innundated with CV's....
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Almost Prof
I agree with you entirely,if you and I were looking to get a start on the ladder we`d have to take whatever was offered. My point is that some people forget that they started at the bottom and are all too willing to bargain away holiday entitlement, salary and conditions for those further down the food chain just to maintain their own status quo.
Personally I will never forget how I got here and I do my best to improve things for those that follow on. It frustrates me that some people still have the attitude that "I had to do that therefore everyone after me will have to do the same" as it shows not only a lack of respect for fellow controllers but a lack of understanding for the way not only our industry but society has changed.
Mats3 - I hope you`re not looking for a radar rating sub 40k next April!!
I agree with you entirely,if you and I were looking to get a start on the ladder we`d have to take whatever was offered. My point is that some people forget that they started at the bottom and are all too willing to bargain away holiday entitlement, salary and conditions for those further down the food chain just to maintain their own status quo.
Personally I will never forget how I got here and I do my best to improve things for those that follow on. It frustrates me that some people still have the attitude that "I had to do that therefore everyone after me will have to do the same" as it shows not only a lack of respect for fellow controllers but a lack of understanding for the way not only our industry but society has changed.
Mats3 - I hope you`re not looking for a radar rating sub 40k next April!!