Is there really a shortage....... (Merged)
StandupfortheUlstermen
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,182
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From: Peoples' Democratic Republic of Wurzelsetshire
Maybe more of us should apply and when offered a new position, go to management and ask "what are you going to do to keep me?"
Just a thought. I know of people who've jumped ship simply because they felt they weren't valued as staff members. Personally, I'd prefer a wad of folding.
Just a thought. I know of people who've jumped ship simply because they felt they weren't valued as staff members. Personally, I'd prefer a wad of folding.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 49
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From: SW UK
ATCO shortage?
Guess the word "acceptable" is infinitely dependent upon circumstances. What is acceptable to one job applicant may not be to another. Similarly, the ability of all airports to pay ATCOs big dosh should never be taken as a given: they don't all have the same amount of revenue coming in. It's oh so easy to bash accountants and airport managers but they too have to make sure their airports stay in business, keeping shareholders, customers and staff happy.
There are fully qualified ATCOs out there who are actively looking to switch jobs and locations, for sure, but it's up to ATS managers to ensure they get the right people. Simply having a current licence with ticks in the appropriate boxes is absolutely no guarantee of getting that vacant post:
"attitude", "enthusiasm", "effort" and "background/cred." count for plenty these days, I assure you.
Ab-initio training costs may be prohibitively high too for many non-NATS units, especially if they "take a punt" on a candidate, rather than having them screened professionally. That said, as an industry, we've got to bite the bullet and invest in new starters. We can't go on poaching off each other for much longer, I suspect.
There are fully qualified ATCOs out there who are actively looking to switch jobs and locations, for sure, but it's up to ATS managers to ensure they get the right people. Simply having a current licence with ticks in the appropriate boxes is absolutely no guarantee of getting that vacant post:
"attitude", "enthusiasm", "effort" and "background/cred." count for plenty these days, I assure you.
Ab-initio training costs may be prohibitively high too for many non-NATS units, especially if they "take a punt" on a candidate, rather than having them screened professionally. That said, as an industry, we've got to bite the bullet and invest in new starters. We can't go on poaching off each other for much longer, I suspect.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 539
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From: Kandahar Afghanistan
According to the FAA Administrator Blakely over 5,000 U.S. controllers will be eligeble to retire in 2005, and this number increases drastically up to 2010 which is when the controllers that were hired after the 81 strike reach mandatory retirement.
Mike
NATCA FWA
Mike
NATCA FWA
Pardoned PPRuNer
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 388
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From: GlassGumtree
And Australia Is different in what way...
Ferris I would suggest you have more chance of winning a green card in the lottery than getting citizenship downunder.
Not that I'm complaining .......
Not that I'm complaining .......
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,839
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From: Adrift upon the tides of fate
I disagree. There are lots of imports in oz. Certainly easier than the US process. How do you keep current for 3 years? Or do you just pick it up again? I wouldn't like to try that at my age.
Any jobs going there?
Any jobs going there?
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 602
Likes: 23
From: North East
Airport to Close???????
Have read and heard from several sources that due to lack of ATCOs airports in the UK face closing for periods next year. When you consider Finningley/Liverpool are struggling to find controllers and are poaching from other units yet still face problems in validating these before the projected start time next year, is it wise for companies to be investing in Finningley, is it wise for customers to even consider using Finningley.
This isn't just a problem at Finningley but is happening all over. Especially at a unit on the south coast which could be forced to close for an extended period.
This isn't just a problem at Finningley but is happening all over. Especially at a unit on the south coast which could be forced to close for an extended period.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 390
Likes: 0
From: North West UK
I would definately do an ADC rating if the CAA allowed the self study route (as they used to). It's a huge financial risk for people to leave a job, spend c£20k and not to be guaranteed a job at the end of it - especially with a young family.
The shortage of ATCOs at non NATS units is likely to get far worse as NATS closes the door on issuing ADC ratings to those chopped during the Appr/Radar course.
I've suggested via GATCO that FISOs, (perhaps with several years experience), should be able to either self study, or do a shorterned ADC course. This would provide a new route into the ATC world, provide new ATCOs and attract people to the FISO role - what do others think?
The shortage of ATCOs at non NATS units is likely to get far worse as NATS closes the door on issuing ADC ratings to those chopped during the Appr/Radar course.
I've suggested via GATCO that FISOs, (perhaps with several years experience), should be able to either self study, or do a shorterned ADC course. This would provide a new route into the ATC world, provide new ATCOs and attract people to the FISO role - what do others think?
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: UK
This is this thread part 2.
I agree there is certainly no surplus now but do you want that to be the case? Over the past 20 years or so ATCO salaries at most units have increased by much more than the rate of inflation, solely due to market forces in retaining and recruiting staff. The one sure way to enable managers to drive down wages and cut benefits is to have a pool of qualified guys down the local job centre.
I'm not saying it is desireable for a unit to be seriously undermanned, but it is a double edged sword.
I agree there is certainly no surplus now but do you want that to be the case? Over the past 20 years or so ATCO salaries at most units have increased by much more than the rate of inflation, solely due to market forces in retaining and recruiting staff. The one sure way to enable managers to drive down wages and cut benefits is to have a pool of qualified guys down the local job centre.
I'm not saying it is desireable for a unit to be seriously undermanned, but it is a double edged sword.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: East of the M6
When Liverpool took on their last two ATCO's I believe only one of them had Radar. Maybe it was planned that way or maybe there arent enough radar ATCO's. Then again maybe only one applied as the t&c's arent that great.
Pardoned PPRuNer
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: GlassGumtree
Ferris
Just out of interest what imports are you talking about? Apart from the ones from about 8 Years ago - which were sponsored by the CAA or DofA I dont know a whole lot of recent imports...
Of course I could be wrong - was once before
TT
Of course I could be wrong - was once before
TT
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 539
Likes: 0
From: Kandahar Afghanistan
Ferris,
I didn't set the rules, the Bush's cronies did. Management has this pipe dream of being able to do more with fewer controllers, the staffing situation at many facilities is preventing controllers from being able to transfer to busier faciliities, and with no one in the pipe line the situation isn't going to get any better.
Mike
NATCA FWA
I didn't set the rules, the Bush's cronies did. Management has this pipe dream of being able to do more with fewer controllers, the staffing situation at many facilities is preventing controllers from being able to transfer to busier faciliities, and with no one in the pipe line the situation isn't going to get any better.
Mike
NATCA FWA