NATS Pay/WP
Pardoned PPRuNer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: GlassGumtree
Posts: 387
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now Lon,
I think Vectorline will assume you are located in the same place as Flowman with those sort of comments, I can only assume in the interest of fair play and consistency that the Moderator will severly reprimand Vectorline for his insults.
And Scott
Its not so much entertainment reading Vectorlines attempts at intelligent conversation as my new years resolution** forbids me from enaging him in written combat.
P.s Vectorline if you liked what you saw in the mirror I really think your mirror needs to be calibrated
PPs I'd love to visit the NATS Forum too but for some reason I can never get on either
I think Vectorline will assume you are located in the same place as Flowman with those sort of comments, I can only assume in the interest of fair play and consistency that the Moderator will severly reprimand Vectorline for his insults.
And Scott
Its not so much entertainment reading Vectorlines attempts at intelligent conversation as my new years resolution** forbids me from enaging him in written combat.
** New years resolution = Rule 1.1.1.1a ) dont pick on people with obvious social or intellectual problems
PPs I'd love to visit the NATS Forum too but for some reason I can never get on either
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Costa del Swanwick
Posts: 834
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So getting back to the thread!!
Assuming that we are to be balloted on the whole package ie. pay and structure-what do people expect to get as a rise?
Or is that the way to go-should we be balloted separately on pay and then on the other elements-I really don't know which way is best.
TT and Lon-please continue to comment if you so wish but I think it a bit rich to moan that the thread should be in the NATS forum. This sort of thread is interesting to a wider audience. You know full well that this thread is NATS related and YOU make the decision to read and contribute every time you log on. If you don't want to read NATS specific stuff you don't have to.
There are plenty more things going on in this world more important than where a thread sits on PPrune!!
Assuming that we are to be balloted on the whole package ie. pay and structure-what do people expect to get as a rise?
Or is that the way to go-should we be balloted separately on pay and then on the other elements-I really don't know which way is best.
TT and Lon-please continue to comment if you so wish but I think it a bit rich to moan that the thread should be in the NATS forum. This sort of thread is interesting to a wider audience. You know full well that this thread is NATS related and YOU make the decision to read and contribute every time you log on. If you don't want to read NATS specific stuff you don't have to.
There are plenty more things going on in this world more important than where a thread sits on PPrune!!
Pardoned PPRuNer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: GlassGumtree
Posts: 387
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Valid points 250 kts - we dont have to read it if we dont want and for me it is actually the opposite. I think this is an important topic that does affect the wider ATC community. What concerns me is that you guys begged, bitched and pleaded for a NATS forum for just this sort of thing, therefore exculding us from any insight or input into topics like this. ( even if I am a pain in the arse).
There is a broad base of ATC experience here in PPRUNE and I am sure that you would get some great help from people that have had problems or situations like this before.
BUT you cant have it both ways - and then have people suggest how all important and world ending these topics are and how non-NATS people should stay out and the playground insults your colleague Vectorline resorts to makes me wonder......you said it yourself 250knots
There is a broad base of ATC experience here in PPRUNE and I am sure that you would get some great help from people that have had problems or situations like this before.
BUT you cant have it both ways - and then have people suggest how all important and world ending these topics are and how non-NATS people should stay out and the playground insults your colleague Vectorline resorts to makes me wonder......you said it yourself 250knots
There are plenty more things going on in this world more important than where a thread sits on PPrune!!
Time merchant
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Belgium
Posts: 352
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Definitely of interest to a wider audience! It's not only NATS employees who are affected by what goes on at London ACC. A couple of staff short has a severe impact on delays not only for UK inbounds but especially for the Atlantic westbounds.
So we listen and read with interest.
(Well to most of you anyway!)
So we listen and read with interest.
(Well to most of you anyway!)
Thread Starter
Lon More
Just scrolled back. Lon More ...........
How DARE you accuse me of singling out people that are non-NATS !!!! I have NO IDEA who is NATS and who isn't - it doesn't mean a thing to me, we are all in the same job with exactly the same responsibilities.
Your post just goes to show the size of the chip on your shoulder !!!
(Expletives deleted !!!)
How DARE you accuse me of singling out people that are non-NATS !!!! I have NO IDEA who is NATS and who isn't - it doesn't mean a thing to me, we are all in the same job with exactly the same responsibilities.
Your post just goes to show the size of the chip on your shoulder !!!
(Expletives deleted !!!)
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: hampshire
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Point5,
The whisperings I've heard are that the afore mentioned 15% will only apply to ATCOs at LACC, LTCC, LL. Others will get less depending on where their unit lies on a new graded scale.
Official announcements to be made during the coming week.
Interesting times ahead I feel.
Slippers
The whisperings I've heard are that the afore mentioned 15% will only apply to ATCOs at LACC, LTCC, LL. Others will get less depending on where their unit lies on a new graded scale.
Official announcements to be made during the coming week.
Interesting times ahead I feel.
Slippers
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: southampton,hampshire,england
Posts: 869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
point5
If there's any truth in your 15% rumour it shows how desperate management are for a two year deal. History tells us, however, that there will be more strings than a plate of spaghetti and the pay-out will be 1% this year, 1% next year until November, with the final 13% in December 2005......... I don't believe the figure.....but I eagerly await something in writing from the union. I hope you're all members by the way....you take the money.....join today if not.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Greystation
Posts: 1,086
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rumours at our mill are that the pay deal will be almost 8% over two years, with points coming in February, April and several more.
On top of this those ATCO's working at units LACC/LTCC/EGLL will get an 8% bonus for WPP, but rumours of 5:30am spins amongst other changes are apparent. AAVA's are also rumoured to be in the region of £550 per shift pre-tax obviously, and that only those with FULL validations are eligible to apply (ie single sector valids now have a reason not to take another year to extend), that only 2 maximum each month, and no up front payments or commitments.
On the ATSA front, a deal of around 8% across 2 years also is possible, but their negotiations may be slightly behind those of the ATCO's. The ATCO's are also rumoured to have a further point that needs debating before finally agreeing to approach the members with the final offer.
As usual, and as is obvious, these are all unofficial observations and total rumours that may or may not have come from a union rep - I would post this soully on the NATS private forum, but that gets more publicity than this one, so no-one really uses it, sorry TT - you can always just ignore those topics not for you.
On top of this those ATCO's working at units LACC/LTCC/EGLL will get an 8% bonus for WPP, but rumours of 5:30am spins amongst other changes are apparent. AAVA's are also rumoured to be in the region of £550 per shift pre-tax obviously, and that only those with FULL validations are eligible to apply (ie single sector valids now have a reason not to take another year to extend), that only 2 maximum each month, and no up front payments or commitments.
On the ATSA front, a deal of around 8% across 2 years also is possible, but their negotiations may be slightly behind those of the ATCO's. The ATCO's are also rumoured to have a further point that needs debating before finally agreeing to approach the members with the final offer.
As usual, and as is obvious, these are all unofficial observations and total rumours that may or may not have come from a union rep - I would post this soully on the NATS private forum, but that gets more publicity than this one, so no-one really uses it, sorry TT - you can always just ignore those topics not for you.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Scotland
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HH
Now what were we all told at the College of Knowledge? Never assume
Just a nice fair deal for all NATS staff, whether they are operational or not. One that is preferably not biased to the South East with all the AVAA, leave buy back available to ALL employees, not just those units where it suits, while the others do the same thing on overtime or a reward of a day in lieu.
I did ask Santa...but he just laughed.
Feel free to unleash the rant that I feel was about to be launched in my general direction.....now look who is assuming
Now what were we all told at the College of Knowledge? Never assume
Just a nice fair deal for all NATS staff, whether they are operational or not. One that is preferably not biased to the South East with all the AVAA, leave buy back available to ALL employees, not just those units where it suits, while the others do the same thing on overtime or a reward of a day in lieu.
I did ask Santa...but he just laughed.
Feel free to unleash the rant that I feel was about to be launched in my general direction.....now look who is assuming
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Costa del Hampshire
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello PCS. ATSA Pay deal!! As of tonight (13th) we've been told SFA. The members are waiting, and the rumour mill has started turning. So - what's the latest? Even if its bad, then lets hear it. The silence is deafening.
More than just an ATCO
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Up someone's nose
Age: 75
Posts: 1,768
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nogbad
Childish rant copied from a previous post by yourself
WHY DOES TRAFFIC TRAFFIC ALWAYS HAVE TO HIJACK A THREAD WITH HIS BARBED AND CYNICAL POSTS ???
IS THERE NO MODERATOR HERE ?????
If you care to remove your head from that dark place you have put it and read my post you will realise that I merely suggested that as you appeared to be unhappy about comments made on an open forum ( def.: a place of or meeting for open discussion) then it was time to move it.
If you can't stand the heat ....
Lon More. More than just an ATCO.
Childish rant copied from a previous post by yourself
WHY DOES TRAFFIC TRAFFIC ALWAYS HAVE TO HIJACK A THREAD WITH HIS BARBED AND CYNICAL POSTS ???
IS THERE NO MODERATOR HERE ?????
If you care to remove your head from that dark place you have put it and read my post you will realise that I merely suggested that as you appeared to be unhappy about comments made on an open forum ( def.: a place of or meeting for open discussion) then it was time to move it.
If you can't stand the heat ....
Lon More. More than just an ATCO.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Details are out from management.
Take a 2 year deal.
Add together basic pay + payment for WPP + payment for introducing a five band ATCO structure based on units.
Haven't got the full details here but from memory
Band 1 Hurn, HQ Units, LACC and LTCC = 14% rise
Band 2 MACC and ScOACC = 10% rise
Differing rises for all the bands. I think BB and SS are band 3 but get bigger % than band 2.
Bottom of the pile are Lndn City, Luton, Southampton etc with not very much
No details about WPP changes so no idea what is being asked for in return for the offer.
No doubt someone will give the full details. Sorry if your unit is not here but only from memory of a quick run down of the details.
Take a 2 year deal.
Add together basic pay + payment for WPP + payment for introducing a five band ATCO structure based on units.
Haven't got the full details here but from memory
Band 1 Hurn, HQ Units, LACC and LTCC = 14% rise
Band 2 MACC and ScOACC = 10% rise
Differing rises for all the bands. I think BB and SS are band 3 but get bigger % than band 2.
Bottom of the pile are Lndn City, Luton, Southampton etc with not very much
No details about WPP changes so no idea what is being asked for in return for the offer.
No doubt someone will give the full details. Sorry if your unit is not here but only from memory of a quick run down of the details.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sunny Warwickshire
Posts: 438
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I sincerely hope that Prospect are not recommending this offer to the membership.
How many times have we raised issue at conference over 2 year pay deals
The regrading of various units is only going to cause a bigger split amongst ourselves. LACC will all say yeah we deserve it, we move the traffic and we have to take on board new WP, great gives us the dough.
Unfortunately the poor relations at the "NON IMPORTANT" airfields who hold dual validations working with various mixes of complex traffic situations, inside and outside CAS with all the other inherent difficulties associated with terrain, Class E airspace and God knows how many other things, get shafted.
But LACC say it's OK we deserve the money we move the traffic we have to take on board new WP, great, give us the dough.
Unfortunately the poor relations at the "NON IMPORTANT" airports have spent the last 10 years with EVER CHANGING WP, moving MORE AND MORE traffic, but we NEVER got the dough, we never got the recoginition and now to cap it all we're gonna get shafted by the union.. Airports have nothing left to give with regards to WP
God help Prospect if they recommend this offer, you can be sure there will be a whole load of resignations from Airport controllers and I can assure you mine will be at the top of the list.
For too long Airports have played second fiddle to the Area guys, all you Union People out there take heed, WE ARE NOT HAPPY
How many times have we raised issue at conference over 2 year pay deals
The regrading of various units is only going to cause a bigger split amongst ourselves. LACC will all say yeah we deserve it, we move the traffic and we have to take on board new WP, great gives us the dough.
Unfortunately the poor relations at the "NON IMPORTANT" airfields who hold dual validations working with various mixes of complex traffic situations, inside and outside CAS with all the other inherent difficulties associated with terrain, Class E airspace and God knows how many other things, get shafted.
But LACC say it's OK we deserve the money we move the traffic we have to take on board new WP, great, give us the dough.
Unfortunately the poor relations at the "NON IMPORTANT" airports have spent the last 10 years with EVER CHANGING WP, moving MORE AND MORE traffic, but we NEVER got the dough, we never got the recoginition and now to cap it all we're gonna get shafted by the union.. Airports have nothing left to give with regards to WP
God help Prospect if they recommend this offer, you can be sure there will be a whole load of resignations from Airport controllers and I can assure you mine will be at the top of the list.
For too long Airports have played second fiddle to the Area guys, all you Union People out there take heed, WE ARE NOT HAPPY
Manchesters Most Wanted PPRuNer
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't wish to enter into the LACC vs The World debate that frequently rears it's ugly head around these parts but.....
Someone today distributed some interesting facts and figures at work the point of which was that "we" at MACC move more traffic per controller than both LACC and ScOACC. That is statistical fact.
I don't propose for one single second that that makes us "better" or in any way more worthy to the company.
What I do propose is an equal increase in pay for all - old fashioned I know. This new offer is a perfect illustration of "divide and rule" and feeds the fire of friction once again between units.
At least the chaps and chapesses in Band 3 get a somewhat fairer deal (rightly so). That's about the only positive I can think of at the moment.
Also, for the benefit of Connex and his colleagues, the ATSA pay deal is, I believe, almost the same. 3.7% (ish) for 2004 and RPI +0.6% for 2005. Not sure about the specifics at this stage though - sorry.
Someone today distributed some interesting facts and figures at work the point of which was that "we" at MACC move more traffic per controller than both LACC and ScOACC. That is statistical fact.
I don't propose for one single second that that makes us "better" or in any way more worthy to the company.
What I do propose is an equal increase in pay for all - old fashioned I know. This new offer is a perfect illustration of "divide and rule" and feeds the fire of friction once again between units.
At least the chaps and chapesses in Band 3 get a somewhat fairer deal (rightly so). That's about the only positive I can think of at the moment.
Also, for the benefit of Connex and his colleagues, the ATSA pay deal is, I believe, almost the same. 3.7% (ish) for 2004 and RPI +0.6% for 2005. Not sure about the specifics at this stage though - sorry.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: UK
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pretty straightforward this pay stuff. 
We will do the 0530 starts and changes to rosters. Do we deserve 14%. Yes we do
So what do we have to do to get it ? Just keep on doing what we do and ....... shaft the airports again ???
DOH
Does everyone deserve 14% YES THEY DO
Lets just kick the whole lot out.
We will do the 0530 starts and changes to rosters. Do we deserve 14%. Yes we do
So what do we have to do to get it ? Just keep on doing what we do and ....... shaft the airports again ???
DOH
Does everyone deserve 14% YES THEY DO
Lets just kick the whole lot out.