Stansted-4

[davidjohnson6]

There appears to be some issue with flights from STN to Akureyri involving the CAA. Anyone know what the full story is, and why the CAA is unhappy ?
https://www.mbl.is/frettir/innlent/2022/06/03/farthegar_niceair_sendir_heim_med_odru_flugfelagi/
https://flugblogg.is/2022/06/03/niceairs-schedule-was-disrupted-on-the-second-day-of-flights-due-to-a-misunderstanding-with-londons-airport/

[STN406]

Jet2 2023 Announcement, information taken from a Jet2 website.

42 sun and city destinations on sale (peak number of flights per week in brackets).

Includes BRAND-NEW city break destinations – Rome and Athens


Antalya (11), Bodrum (4), Dalaman (12), Izmir (2), Tenerife (14), Lanzarote (8), Fuerteventura (5), Gran Canaria (5), Reus (3), Alicante (7), Malaga (6), Girona (2), Palma (Majorca) (18), Ibiza (16), Menorca (8), Faro (Algarve) (11), Madeira (2), Crete (Heraklion) (9), Crete (Chania) (2), Corfu (7), Kefalonia (5), Skiathos (4), Santorini (3), Kos (5), Kalamata (1), Preveza (2), Lesvos (1), Rhodes (7), Halkidiki (2), Zante (5), Larnaca (5), Paphos (6), Rome (4), Naples (2), Sicily (1), Sardinia (1), Verona (1), Dubrovnik (4), Split (3), Malta (2), Jersey (1), Athens (2).
Over 200 departing weekly flights during peak periods.
A 14th based aircraft coming into operation for Summer 23.

[JW95]

Great news RE Jet2, they definitely seem to have been going from strength-to-strength at STN since they opened their base here. Also nice to see FCO being added too which offers a vastly better experience compared to CIA. I'm wondering if the introduction of this route will incentivise FR to shift their STN-Rome flights to FCO, now that they've got some more competition in their home turf? I've noticed they've been shifting quite a few routes over to FCO from CIA, so maybe STN could be one of them?

[davidjohnson6]

Commit aviation on the Luton thread mentioned that STN's runway is due for resurfacing in early 2023
Does anyone have info on this ?
Is it a "close STN completely for 2 weeks" job, or instead just close from 11 pm to 6 am every day for a month ? Or some other variant ?
In January ? Or March ?

[Rutan16]

You can be assured MAG wont close the airport down !

MAG Group has extensive experience in completely resurfacing runways with limited night closures often running into months with Ash felt temporary ramps poured each morning !

[LTNman]

https://i.imgur.com/kby1iOD.png


https://i.imgur.com/cyKPKoV.png

[davidjohnson6]

LTNman - many thanks
What happens in the event of an FR flight on one of the 5 closed days being due into STN at 2300 but being delayed on its return from (eg) Greece and not expecting to arrive at STN until 0100 ? Does it have to divert to LTN ? Is it unable to position from LTN back to STN until 0615 ?

[commit aviation]

DJ6
I think ACL times are on and off stand times. There will be taxi time to or from the runway. I would guess from the slide LTNman showed that STN has a 10 min taxi time. So 23:45 departure plus 10 taxi out is 23:55 on the runway and 06:15 arrival would be 06:05 on the runway plus 10 taxi in.
A 6 hour closure seems a pretty short closure so I would think the airport would expect late runners to divert. They can't risk not finishing the works on time either on the night or on the program overall.

[terrain safe]

LTNman - many thanks
What happens in the event of an FR flight on one of the 5 closed days being due into STN at 2300 but being delayed on its return from (eg) Greece and not expecting to arrive at STN until 0100 ? Does it have to divert to LTN ? Is it unable to position from LTN back to STN until 0615 ?
It does have to divert and won't be able to reposition until 0600. It can divert to anywhere that Ryanair wants and can accept the flight.

[LTNman]

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/22_05_06-STN-Runway-Rehabilitation-ACL-Guidance_Issued.pdf

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/22_05_04-STN-Runway-Rehabilitation-Programme-EGM-May-22.pdf

[Flightrider]

The work footprint with only 4.5 hours per night of effective time will be pretty lengthy indeed. With Saturdays in November (before the ski season starts) being loss-making for most and seeing very little cargo operation, they'd almost be better closing from 0200z Saturday to 0600z Sunday for five or six weeks to let the contractors have a decent crack at it. The process to close and then safety assess to re-open a runway after works is not inconsiderable, and a 4.5 hour nightly closure is incredibly limiting, even before you factor any weather disruption into that programme of works.

[LTNman]

The closures increase to 6 hours per night from 2023.

[FRatSTN]

The 4.5hr closures in November are only 2 nights a week and are routine runway maintenance, nothing to do with the runway rehabilitation. I'm sure they know by now what they're doing with this.

[LTNman]

Routine maintenance on a runway that is about to be resurfaced.

[Rutan16]

The advance scheduling should allow airlines sufficient time to adjust their timetable. Again if you look at prior evidence up north , a small number of flights and delayed flights diverted to Birmingham and Liverpool over period and yes required a repositioning flight after reopening.

Its not rocket science !

[Rutan16]

The work footprint with only 4.5 hours per night of effective time will be pretty lengthy indeed. With Saturdays in November (before the ski season starts) being loss-making for most and seeing very little cargo operation, they'd almost be better closing from 0200z Saturday to 0600z Sunday for five or six weeks to let the contractors have a decent crack at it. The process to close and then safety assess to re-open a runway after works is not inconsiderable, and a 4.5 hour nightly closure is incredibly limiting, even before you factor any weather disruption into that programme of works.

AGAIN MAG as a group has extensive experience with this process , nothing new , indeed at Manchester the runway (then 24/06) was not only resurfaced but also included easing out a hump in the levels to improve radar accuracy!

The timeframe per occupancy is indeed limiting however this is manageable with several contractor teams.

[FRatSTN]

Routine maintenance on a runway that is about to be resurfaced.

Indeed, but still has to be done. It's a regular programme of essential works thats happens a couple of times a year. You wouldn't seriously expect them to go "ah well sod it this time" we're resurfacing in 2 months anyway.

[commit aviation]

It isn't just resurfacing that is carried out each spring and autumn. Work on the runway lights, removing rubber build up and refreshing the paint markings amongst some of the regular jobs which need to be done.
I imagine some preparatory work may also be undertaken ahead of the works starting in the new year.

[pabely]

What does the Alleviation of Slots at other ACL controlled airports mean for the work in Phase 1 of the Rehabilitation Programme?
Are they able to for example grant LHR some increased night-time slots to cover slots lost at STN? Thinking of DHL here who might be happy at that?

[STN406]

What does the Alleviation of Slots at other ACL controlled airports mean for the work in Phase 1 of the Rehabilitation Programme?
Are they able to for example grant LHR some increased night-time slots to cover slots lost at STN? Thinking of DHL here who might be happy at that?

As someone has already said releasing the schedule for overnight closure this early give the airlines time to plan flights around it.
I would imagine that DHL would fly into EMA and truck the freight down. FedEx possibly similar or even truck it from Paris.

[pabely]

As someone has already said releasing the schedule for overnight closure this early give the airlines time to plan flights around it.
I would imagine that DHL would fly into EMA and truck the freight down. FedEx possibly similar or even truck it from Paris.

I thought EMA was pretty much full, hence BHX has picked up any Ah-Hoc Cargo work recently.

[ATNotts]

I thought EMA was pretty much full, hence BHX has picked up any Ah-Hoc Cargo work recently.
I am not sure BHX has necessarily picked up cargo work from EMA, BHX's success with cargo is probably more to do with a small highly motivated cargo handling business hungry for work.

[Kiltrash]

For the first time since pre pandemic we are flying with hold case from Stansted.
Assumming we have paid any charges associated and checked in online and printed the boarding pass are / is there a Bag Drop zone we can process said hold case and head for security even before the actual check in desk opens 2 hours before the flight so freeing up space at the desk for people not as organised as us??
thanks in advance

[Sioltach Dubh Glas]

You might get a quicker answer if you say which airline you are flying with?

[Kiltrash]

Ryanair thanks

[BA318]

Ryanair thanks

If you just need to drop a bag off and don’t need visa/document check etc there is an area just before the security check where you drop your bag yourself. I don’t think there’s a time limit. You just scan your boarding pass and it prints your label, attach and drop at the belt.

[Kiltrash]

Many thanks '328. That's how it worked last time hold luggage was needed at Heathrow...

[sergy2k]

Any reason for the random Vueling flights popping up at Stansted over the past few days? No info on the Vueling website but they seem to be Gatwick flights that have been moved over…

[pamann]

Any reason for the random Vueling flights popping up at Stansted over the past few days? No info on the Vueling website but they seem to be Gatwick flights that have been moved over…

Available to book on some random dates to Bilbao, Malaga and Paris Orly. I’d say they’re an overspill from Gatwick due to capacity reductions.

[STN406]

Available to book on some random dates to Bilbao, Malaga and Paris Orly. I’d say they’re an overspill from Gatwick due to capacity reductions.

These are flights that could not get their normal slots at Gatwick to the slot restrictions in place. Originally these where not bookable on the Vueling website but I’ve the last week this has changed.

[JW95]

Does anyone know of any updates regarding STN's transformation project? A lot of this was put on hold during the height of the pandemic, but now that things are moving again, what is happening in terms of refurbishment of the terminal and satellites 2 and 3?

Also, is there any news on the arrivals building?

[STN406]

Does anyone know of any updates regarding STN's transformation project? A lot of this was put on hold during the height of the pandemic, but now that things are moving again, what is happening in terms of refurbishment of the terminal and satellites 2 and 3?

Also, is there any news on the arrivals building?

Plans and projects are being discussed at a high level. Plans for the arrivals building to still be built are one. Plus a possibility of a second terminal to be built as well with a fourth satellite also constructed.
MAG are claiming to still be losing money currently and are in pay deal talks at Stansted so I doubt any big construction projects will take place soon.

[SWBKCB]

MAG are claiming to still be losing money currently and are in pay deal talks at Stansted so I doubt any big construction projects will take place soon.A total of £320m was lost by the group behind Manchester, London Stansted and East Midlands airports during its latest financial year. Manchester Airports Group (MAG) added that its combined losses for the last two years stand at £694m. In the 12 months to the end of March this year, passenger numbers were a third of pre-pandemic levels. Compared with 2018/19, revenues were down 80% in 2020/21 and 48% during the following year.

Looks like they are.

https://www.business-live.co.uk/enterprise/losses-reach-320m-group-behind-24421794

[pamann]

Does anyone know of any updates regarding STN's transformation project? A lot of this was put on hold during the height of the pandemic, but now that things are moving again, what is happening in terms of refurbishment of the terminal and satellites 2 and 3?

Also, is there any news on the arrivals building?

It would be great to see them finish the shoreline Check-in area across the terminal. The rest of the Check-in areas look outdated and in need of an upgrade. Land-side needs bringing up-to-date.

[JW95]

Plans and projects are being discussed at a high level. Plans for the arrivals building to still be built are one. Plus a possibility of a second terminal to be built as well with a fourth satellite also constructed.
MAG are claiming to still be losing money currently and are in pay deal talks at Stansted so I doubt any big construction projects will take place soon.
Interesting RE. arrivals building - I remember reading somewhere that MAG were in the process of making some design changes to the building, but unsure if these are major or minor?

That's also very interesting that MAG are considering a second terminal for STN- but would this seriously be needed, given that the existing terminal will eventually be dedicated to departing passengers only, once the arrivals terminal is completed? Unless they scrap plans for the arrivals building and proceed with a second terminal?

As for the satellites- talk of a fourth satellite has been on the cards for many years, well before MAG took over from BAA, but it has never come to fruition. If and when it were to be built, where would it go, in relation to satellites 1-3, and also, what do people think we could expect in terms of design and layout of gate areas etc? Would it be something like satellites 1/2 with jet bridges, or more like satellite 3? I think before MAG do decide to build a fourth satellite, shouldn't they work on getting satellites 2 and 3 up-to-date? Both are looking very worn and tired, especially satellite 2.

[JW95]

It would be great to see them finish the shoreline Check-in area across the terminal. The rest of the Check-in areas look outdated and in need of an upgrade. Land-side needs bringing up-to-date.
I absolutely agree. The initial phase of the shoreline check in product is looking very smart and spacious, but the remaining of the original "islands" look very poor in comparison, particularly zones E and F. Are MAG planning on proceeding with this element of the terminal refurb soon?

[Sotonsean]

Interesting RE. arrivals building - I remember reading somewhere that MAG were in the process of making some design changes to the building, but unsure if these are major or minor?

That's also very interesting that MAG are considering a second terminal for STN- but would this seriously be needed, given that the existing terminal will eventually be dedicated to departing passengers only, once the arrivals terminal is completed? Unless they scrap plans for the arrivals building and proceed with a second terminal?

As for the satellites- talk of a fourth satellite has been on the cards for many years, well before MAG took over from BAA, but it has never come to fruition. If and when it were to be built, where would it go, in relation to satellites 1-3, and also, what do people think we could expect in terms of design and layout of gate areas etc? Would it be something like satellites 1/2 with jet bridges, or more like satellite 3? I think before MAG do decide to build a fourth satellite, shouldn't they work on getting satellites 2 and 3 up-to-date? Both are looking very worn and tired, especially satellite 2.

I think that the location for a fourth satellite is rather obvious isn't it 🤔

If and when it is built I have no doubt that it will be a replica of satellite 3 with Ryanair being the beneficiary.

But I totally agree with you regarding the refurbishment of satellites 1 and 2. Some nice brand new glazed air-bridges would also look good. Hopefully once the busy summer season comes to an end the airport can continue with the expansion of the shoreline check-in.

[daz211]

I think that the location for a fourth satellite is rather obvious isn't it 🤔

If and when it is built I have no doubt that it will be a replica of satellite 3 with Ryanair being the beneficiary.

But I totally agree with you regarding the refurbishment of satellites 1 and 2. Some nice brand new glazed air-bridges would also look good. Hopefully once the busy summer season comes to an end the airport can continue with the expansion of the shoreline check-in.

Sat 4 is obviously next to sat 3 (Ryanair Gates). The groundwork’s are already done.
I seen plans for Sat 5 which will be situated where the Cargo terminal is.

[STN406]

Sat 4 is obviously next to sat 3 (Ryanair Gates). The groundwork’s are already done.
I seen plans for Sat 5 which will be situated where the Cargo terminal is.

SAT5 replacing cargo???
I’d like to see plans or evidence of this. Never heard that rumour at all!

[daz211]

SAT5 replacing cargo???
I’d like to see plans or evidence of this. Never heard that rumour at all!
It was such a long time ago whilst under BAA, there was a exhibition in the staff canteen in the under Croft.
Look at a birds eye image and you can see, replace the older cargo terminal the TNT one, replace with a satellite building
build new cargo building the other side of the FedEx apron.
sorry there was no camera phones back in the day 😬

[daz211]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x800/b9a98482_2c88_48f1_b0e0_bfaa402a7116_dce1e085022b2e010bd3316 f2386bd9bb1c16a29.jpeg

[davidjohnson6]

Ryanair thought to be in discussions with Graz airport over a route to London, presumably Stansted
https://aviation.direct/en/nach-langer-pause-ryanair-verhandelt-mit-graz-ueber-comeback

[STN406]

It was such a long time ago whilst under BAA, there was a exhibition in the staff canteen in the under Croft.
Look at a birds eye image and you can see, replace the older cargo terminal the TNT one, replace with a satellite building
build new cargo building the other side of the FedEx apron.
sorry there was no camera phones back in the day 😬

A very outdated rumour then.

[daz211]

Indeed, but an obvious location when you look at it and I’m sure the plans from way back were done for a reason, so when the time comes it would still be a viable location.

[SWBKCB]

Indeed, but an obvious location when you look at it and I’m sure the plans from way back were done for a reason, so when the time comes it would still be a viable location.

So the next question is where does the freight go - and which would make more money?

[daz211]

So the next question is where does the freight go - and which would make more money?
freight went in the blue area, everything moved left.

[commit aviation]

I don't think the airport owns the land which the cargo sheds occupy.
I'm sure they could buy it but I bet the current owners would extract a hefty price.
Sat 4 seems a cheaper choice right now

[STN406]

I don't think the airport owns the land which the cargo sheds occupy.
I'm sure they could buy it but I bet the current owners would extract a hefty price.
Sat 4 seems a cheaper choice right now

The cargo area won’t be converted into a a Satellite. It would only have one operational side on the Alpha cul d sac and would have no easy link to the terminal. Much more sense to build in SAT4

[daz211]

The cargo area won’t be converted into a a Satellite. It would only have one operational side on the Alpha cul d sac and would have no easy link to the terminal. Much more sense to build in SAT4

Of cause satellite 4 would come before satellite 5.
Do not rule out the location of satellite 5, even though it was a while back the plans were there.
also the TTS already goes but does not stop to the cargo area in question so no issues with transportation to and from satellite 5.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1654x1078/c0318ea7_81a7_4937_8243_b33c06e26867_7ee845334a2aa38942332dd 8bdabc1922cae5a5f.jpeg

[commit aviation]

I don't know where that map came from but it doesn't go as far as the cargo sheds. It turns under the Alpha cul de sac.

[STN406]

Of cause satellite 4 would come before satellite 5.
Do not rule out the location of satellite 5, even though it was a while back the plans were there.
also the TTS already goes but does not stop to the cargo area in question so no issues with transportation to and from satellite 5.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1654x1078/c0318ea7_81a7_4937_8243_b33c06e26867_7ee845334a2aa38942332dd 8bdabc1922cae5a5f.jpeg

The TTS does not loop round under the cargo area. Like mentioned above it loops under the Alpha cul d sac.
Also TTS is built up to SAT3 and what would be SAT4. But no stations where actually built and track only running up to SAT3 with an empty tunnel after that towards what would be SAT4
Seriously where do or are you getting your information?
We won’t have a SAT5 as a second terminal would be built before then and the connecting Satellite buildings or piers would be renamed.

[daz211]

The TTS does not loop round under the cargo area. Like mentioned above it loops under the Alpha cul d sac.
Also TTS is built up to SAT3 and what would be SAT4. But no stations where actually built and track only running up to SAT3 with an empty tunnel after that towards what would be SAT4
Seriously where do or are you getting your information?
We won’t have a SAT5 as a second terminal would be built before then and the connecting Satellite buildings or piers would be renamed.

Ok calm down I never said it was definitely happening, I said back in the day BAA, there was an examination in the staff restaurant in the under Croft and it was in the plans.
If the TTS map is incorrect does anyone have a correct one ? I was u dear the impression that the TTS turned at a junction and there was/is a straight ahead that is not in use.

[STN406]

Ok calm down I never said it was definitely happening, I said back in the day BAA, there was an examination in the staff restaurant in the under Croft and it was in the plans.
If the TTS map is incorrect does anyone have a correct one ? I was u dear the impression that the TTS turned at a junction and there was/is a straight ahead that is not in use.

But you are quoting information that is vastly outdated and irrelevant to the current airport.
Though these may have been ideas from the past they are not current.

Yes TTS does have a straight line it’s between SAT2 Stations and what would be SAT3 Stations. It has a crossover past SAT2 to switch to the other track.
Unfortunately I don’t have a map I could supply to an open group.

[OpsSix]

I believe the proposed new terminal + Sat 4 may look something like this...


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1432x1116/term_41ce03a869e7680e036c376683b9e85276a64409.jpg

[STN406]

I believe the proposed new terminal + Sat 4 may look something like this...


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1432x1116/term_41ce03a869e7680e036c376683b9e85276a64409.jpg

I have heard the same sort of thing. It would be a similar layout to this.
The arrivals terminal has apparently been totally scrapped and designs and plans for a second terminal are happening now. From what I hear by the end of summer plans should be released.

[pamann]

I have heard the same sort of thing. It would be a similar layout to this.
The arrivals terminal has apparently been totally scrapped and designs and plans for a second terminal are happening now. From what I hear by the end of summer plans should be released.

Was never keen on the separate departures/arrivals terminals. Plus the design of the arrivals terminal just didn’t fit with the current one. Let’s hope it’s better split as two separate terminals and the current terminal shoreline check-in is finished.

[The96er]

If the new MAN T2 extension is anything to go by, don’t expect any architectural delights, keep your expectations low.

[pamann]

If the new MAN T2 extension is anything to go by, don’t expect any architectural delights, keep your expectations low.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the ‘new terminal’ was to be exclusively Ryanair if the location is to be correct. It is conveniently located next to Sat 3 and the area where Sat 4 would go. I’d therefore guess it’ll have a more low cost feel to it. But you never know.

[Pain in the R's]

So could be built to a Ryanair specification of tarmac floors instead of tiles and just openings instead of windows.

[pamann]

So could be built to a Ryanair specification of tarmac floors instead of tiles and just openings instead of windows.

Probably a tin shed without windows. Might as well borrow the blueprint from Luton.

[davidjohnson6]

I'm thinking something like the low-rise shed at the end of the Ryanair pier at STN. MAG already have a prototype... no need to copy another airport

[JW95]

I have heard the same sort of thing. It would be a similar layout to this.
The arrivals terminal has apparently been totally scrapped and designs and plans for a second terminal are happening now. From what I hear by the end of summer plans should be released.

Quite the U-turn if they have decided to scrap the Arrivals Building- is there any particular reason why they have now decided on a second terminal over an arrivals building?

Would definitely been keen to learn more about the proposed architecture of the proposed new terminal and satellite 4, if these both come to fruition. Would be a shame if MAG decided to go down the Luton-style terminal route, very claustrophobic and no natural lighting or space whatsoever.

MAG also were (and presumably still are) keen on trying to attract more long haul to STN- so I wonder if this ambition will inform the approach to the design of Satellite 4?

[_aax1]

Quite the U-turn if they have decided to scrap the Arrivals Building- is there any particular reason why they have now decided on a second terminal over an arrivals building?

Would definitely been keen to learn more about the proposed architecture of the proposed new terminal and satellite 4, if these both come to fruition. Would be a shame if MAG decided to go down the Luton-style terminal route, very claustrophobic and no natural lighting or space whatsoever.

MAG also were (and presumably still are) keen on trying to attract more long haul to STN- so I wonder if this ambition will inform the approach to the design of Satellite 4?

I for one hope that if MAG go along the lines of a Luton style 2nd terminal for Ryanair (I imagine Sat 4 will be for FR too) then they put some investment into main terminal. The building is a beauty but has been modified, neglected and destroyed over the years. I think MAG should turn it back into what it was always designed to be (not low cost) and enable a decent enough experiance to get some long haul/full service.

[JW95]

I for one hope that if MAG go along the lines of a Luton style 2nd terminal for Ryanair (I imagine Sat 4 will be for FR too) then they put some investment into main terminal. The building is a beauty but has been modified, neglected and destroyed over the years. I think MAG should turn it back into what it was always designed to be (not low cost) and enable a decent enough experiance to get some long haul/full service.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. However, as much as I (alongside many others) would no doubt love this to happen, I think this is very unlikely to be the case. MAG have already spent ££££££ in "enhancing" the terminal in recent years (e.g. complete remodelling of the departure lounge; snake-walk duty free) which was only finished in 2016-17. In order to be non-low cost, MAG would essentially have to rip this all up and downsize on the outlets/duty free, which given their track record, I think is very unlikely.

I think what MAG should definitely be focused on now is completing the shoreline check in concept (the original "island" zones look quite dated now), and significantly invest in upgrading the boarding gate areas and the existing satellites (with the exception of satellite 1, which does look very nice), as these also are looking worn and past their sell-by-date. If they're really serious about long haul, as they were prior Pandemic, then this will be essential I think, and maybe additional airline lounges in the satellites. Currently, we only have the Escape lounge in the main terminal. IIRC, there were a few lounges in satellites 1 and 2 previously?

As regards terminal 2, I really hope MAG won't go down the Luton-style design, as it wouldn't fit in with STN's existing architecture and infrastructure. Certainly, it wouldn't help MAG in helping STN compete for new carriers, much less so becoming the airport of choice in London, as they envision it to be.

It is a shame though, as I always found STN fairly pleasant prior to MAG ownership, and I had positive hopes when BAA sold it, especially given the mantra of wanting STN to become the "best airport in London" shortly after MAG took over.

[Paulesx]

Seems Air Algerie have transferred some of their Heathrow flights to Stansted due to restraint issues at Heathrow Due to congestion at London Heathrow Airport which impacted most Airlines, Air Algerie informs its passengers to and from London that the flights of July 22 and 23, 2022 are transferred to Stansted airport as follows:

- AH2054 Algiers - London Heathrow becomes AH2354 Algiers - London Stansted at 2:50 p.m.

- AH2055 London Heathrow - Algiers becomes AH2355 London Stansted - Algiers at 7:00 p.m.

[The96er]

As regards terminal 2, I really hope MAG won't go down the Luton-style design, as it wouldn't fit in with STN's existing architecture and infrastructure. Certainly, it wouldn't help MAG in helping STN compete for new carriers, much less so becoming the airport of choice

MAG do not care about the existing design. Compare with what they did at MAN. The original T2 complex was a sleek design that still looks modern today. The new T2 extension has no respect for the original design and looks a complete dogs dinner. The architecture is so jarring that it’s painful to look at.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The private sector only cares about rewarding senior execs and shareholders in that order. Any new longhaul at STN can easily be accomadated in Sat 1. Projected traffic volume growth is loco and so the tin shed minimalism will be fine. Remember the original vision of the Norman Foster terminal was to be an iconic London gateway for the country, the easiest to use and simplest for the passenger. The current model is private ROI on volume driven low cost passengers being fleeced in shops.
So unless the Finance team are feeling especially generous, tin shed add ons are all that's needed. Remember, the original plan for STN was an expensive failure and the BAA took a hit, and also remember it was partially paid for via cross subsidy from other group profits as well as HMG as it was a public sector org back then. None of the considerations above, of which I agree, will apply in 2022. It is what it is, I'd love to be wrong (again) :)

[STN406]

A new addition to the Stansted family. Air Cairo are set to begin weekly flights between Stansted and Luxor using A320’s. Starting from the 6th November.
A nice addition to the network from Stansted.

SM843 LXR1340 – 1730STN 320 7
SM844 STN1830 – 0235+1LXR 320 7

N.B not currently on sale on their website.

[Paulesx]

Looking at the W22 ACL slot report seems that easyjet are adding a STN -ORY flight with 294 slots requested with a total of 54,684 seats and Swissair adding a STN-ZRH flight with 174 slots requested with a total of 31,320 seats.
As we know this also doesn’t always transpire but could be interesting, hi fly Malta also showing for their Iceland / Nice Air flights as new destinations for winter 22, however believe they still have some issue to resolve with regards to this one. Airport City served Country ATMs Seats

ORY Paris France 294 54,684



Operator Newly allocated slots W21 SAL ATMs ATM change for W22 SAL


Swiss International Air Lines New operator

Airport City served Country ATMs Seats

ZRH Zurich Switzerland 174 31,320

[pabely]

A new addition to the Stansted family. Air Cairo are set to begin weekly flights between Stansted and Luxor using A320’s. Starting from the 6th November.
A nice addition to the network from Stansted.

SM843 LXR1340 – 1730STN 320 7
SM844 STN1830 – 0235+1LXR 320 7

N.B not currently on sale on their website.

That's an interesting one. Usually block book seats with a Tour Operator and the balance on sale on their own Web Site. Luxor is a strange on though, not the place you would want to spend even one week at on holiday. Do the tours of the temples, tombs and monuments then what, unless it is a tie up with a Nile Cruise.

[AirportPlanner1]

Do the tours of the temples, tombs and monuments then what, unless it is a tie up with a Nile Cruise.

That’s exactly what. Traditionally Monarch and other IT flew there until it became no-go, much more so than Sharm etc.

[AirportPlanner1]

Looks like the Air Algerie flights are at STN for the rest of the week.

There also appear to be extra Tunisair unless additional peak frequencies above the normal 2x weekly schedule were always planned.

[pamann]

Looking at the W22 ACL slot report seems that easyjet are adding a STN -ORY flight with 294 slots requested with a total of 54,684 seats and Swissair adding a STN-ZRH flight with 174 slots requested with a total of 31,320 seats.
As we know this also doesn’t always transpire but could be interesting, hi fly Malta also showing for their Iceland / Nice Air flights as new destinations for winter 22, however believe they still have some issue to resolve with regards to this one. Airport City served Country ATMs Seats

ORY Paris France 294 54,684



Operator Newly allocated slots W21 SAL ATMs ATM change for W22 SAL


Swiss International Air Lines New operator

Airport City served Country ATMs Seats

ZRH Zurich Switzerland 174 31,320

Swiss is an odd one considering its ops down the road at LCY. But these ACL reports should be taken with a pinch of salt from experience.

[AirportPlanner1]

Swiss isn’t odd on those numbers. Looks like a weekend skiing operation. They do LGW as well in addition to LCY/LHR

[crewmeal]

Luxor is a strange on though, not the place you would want to spend even one week at on holiday.

I'm off on holiday for 3 weeks soon flying with Egyptair. Luxor is a great city to explore if you're interested in Egyptian history. Don't expect theme parks or anything like that, you'll need to fly to Sharm or Hurghada for that.

[JW95]

Being reported that MAG's £12 million upgrade of the departure lounge is now complete. Other than the addition of new shops and eateries, the press release mentions additional seating is now available, but not sure where this is? Is this the wooden-bench type seating that was already in place?

Hopefully it won't be too long now before we hear more about the supposed plans for Terminal 2 and other aspects related to the transformation project.

[STN406]

Being reported that MAG's £12 million upgrade of the departure lounge is now complete. Other than the addition of new shops and eateries, the press release mentions additional seating is now available, but not sure where this is? Is this the wooden-bench type seating that was already in place?

Hopefully it won't be too long now before we hear more about the supposed plans for Terminal 2 and other aspects related to the transformation project.

No actually area of increased seating is new. With the refurbishment of some restaurants that has increased seating very slightly. Just the way media try to sell it I’d say.
But other improvements are coming.
-Other restaurants and shops in the IDL will be refurbished in the winter.
-A new Leon landside will be put in.
-Café Nero in the bus station getting a refurbishment.
-Larger seating area in arrivals. A communal seating area for all restaurants will be used instead of individual seating areas. This will increase seating landside.
-A new Burger King drive thru will be built along Thremall Ave heading towards the A120.

So a good few things to come in the coming year or so.

[JW95]

No actually area of increased seating is new. With the refurbishment of some restaurants that has increased seating very slightly. Just the way media try to sell it I’d say.
But other improvements are coming.
-Other restaurants and shops in the IDL will be refurbished in the winter.
-A new Leon landside will be put in.
-Café Nero in the bus station getting a refurbishment.
-Larger seating area in arrivals. A communal seating area for all restaurants will be used instead of individual seating areas. This will increase seating landside.
-A new Burger King drive thru will be built along Thremall Ave heading towards the A120.

So a good few things to come in the coming year or so.

Good news! Does anyone have any pictures of where the new seating area is? (As this seems to have been excluded from the press and media photos).

In all honesty, I’m surprised MAG are spending more money into refurbishing restaurants/shops etc, given that the departure lounge redesign was only fairly recently completed in 2016/17. I’d had thought that there would be other areas that could be tackled first (e.g unfinished shoreline check in area; refurbishment of satellite 2 and satellite 3 gate areas etc, given that these haven’t been touched in years).

[commit aviation]

The brands often change because previous contracts end. I would imagine the fit out of the units is covered at least in part by the supplier rather than MAG.

[STN406]

Good news! Does anyone have any pictures of where the new seating area is? (As this seems to have been excluded from the press and media photos).

In all honesty, I’m surprised MAG are spending more money into refurbishing restaurants/shops etc, given that the departure lounge redesign was only fairly recently completed in 2016/17. I’d had thought that there would be other areas that could be tackled first (e.g unfinished shoreline check in area; refurbishment of satellite 2 and satellite 3 gate areas etc, given that these haven’t been touched in years).

As said their is no new seating area that has been created in the refurbishment works. It’s been solely work on individual shops and restaurants in the IDL. MAG haven’t spent a penny on this is all been spent by the companies who lease the units. Part of the contact they sign is to renew the unit after so many years.

SAT3 has had some small works done in the last 2-3 years. 3 gates have been given a face lift. 43, 48 and 50. Plus the bar/restaurant here has been renovated to.

[JW95]

Some more welcome news for STN - EK are to immediately recommence daily flights to DXB as of tomorrow, instead of previously planned 5 weekly. Will definitely be a welcome sight seeing the 77W back at Stansted again. I wonder how long before the 2nd daily frequency is restored?

[Sioltach Dubh Glas]

@JW95, I'm in no way knocking your post but is it possible that EK have upped their STN offering because of the LHR restrictions?
Either way it's good to see an increase.

[JW95]

As said their is no new seating area that has been created in the refurbishment works. It’s been solely work on individual shops and restaurants in the IDL. MAG haven’t spent a penny on this is all been spent by the companies who lease the units. Part of the contact they sign is to renew the unit after so many years.

SAT3 has had some small works done in the last 2-3 years. 3 gates have been given a face lift. 43, 48 and 50. Plus the bar/restaurant here has been renovated to.

Thanks for the heads up! The press release on the STN website is quite misleading, as it mentions this: "The upgrade not only boosts the choice of bars, restaurants and retail outlets on offer but also provides additional seating for passengers in the central area of the lounge"

Speaking of upgrades, does anyone have an updated list of the restaurants/cafes at STN following the refurb? The STN webpage hasn't been fully updated, and lists James Martin Kitchen, which I think has been closed permanently now, alongside Giraffe - again, unsure if they're still at STN? I think StarBucks has definitely gone, replaced by Cafe Nero, and I'm unsure whether Not Always Caviar is still in the terminal?

[JW95]

@JW95, I'm in no way knocking your post but is it possible that EK have upped their STN offering because of the LHR restrictions?
Either way it's good to see an increase.
Is very much a possibility. As you rightly mention, LHR is currently being plagued with numerous problems which is having a severe impact on EK's DXB frequencies. I do know that they have temporarily added additional capacity to LGW to compensate though (also on the 77W), so maybe that's why they've brought the daily resumption at STN forward? Either way, it'll be nice seeing Emirates back tomorrow after a 2 year absence.

[AirportPlanner1]

EK comes in as the 65 and goes out at the 68 so I’d say return to 2x daily is very much on the cards

[JW95]

EK comes in as the 65 and goes out at the 68 so I’d say return to 2x daily is very much on the cards
Lovely :) I remember reading somewhere that STN had grown to become one of EK's more successful of the new routes pre-Covid, so hopefully it won't be long before we see them upping frequency at STN even further.

Also, weren't MAG in the process of upgrading one of the gates on Satellite 1 to be dual-jet bridge, presumably for Emirates? Is this still going ahead/now completed?

[Paulesx]

Just looking at todays arrivals into STN and see that todays Air Algerie, AH2354 flight (as it also was on the 25th July), is again being operated by one their A330-200 aircraft. Nice addition to the STN scene .

[VickersVicount]

EK comes in as the 65 and goes out at the 68 so I’d say return to 2x daily is very much on the cards
Don’t see that any time soon tbh.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

As you rightly mention, LHR is currently being plagued with numerous problems which is having a severe impact on EK's DXB frequencies. I do know that they have temporarily added additional capacity to LGW to compensate though (also on the 77W), so maybe that's why they've brought the daily resumption at STN forward? Either way, it'll be nice seeing Emirates back tomorrow after a 2 year absence.
LHR remains 7 x daily A380, I believe they refused to cancel flights or stop selling as per HAL's demand.

Edit : My bad, it's 6 x daily, never been 7, EK7/8, EK1/2, EK29/30, EK31/32, EK3/4, EK5/6.

[STN406]

LHR remains 7 x daily A380, I believe they refused to cancel flights or stop selling as per HAL's demand.

Emirates original stated a 5 weekly as they had a pilot shortage for the B77W. Though not massively published it was said if the pilot numbers rose then they would commence daily from 1st August.

Just a show of how well Emirates will be doing they had a one off flight on the 25th July to Dubai after the plane had done a charter for Arsenal FC.
It flew out with every seat full! 310 passengers. For a one off very good and shows good things for the restart of regular flights.

Emirates will bring back a second daily flight. Had heard from the winter season but nothing official announced yet. But I’d say this could be due to ongoing pilot shortages which as said has got better.

In terms of new restaurants and shops in the departure lounge.

Shops:
Tommy Hilfiger
Lego Store
Discovery

Restaurants:
Sunny Side Café
Perch
Comptoir Libanais
Terracotta Italian Kitchen
Bottega Prosecco Bar
Café Nero

New airbridge for A13 Gate 12. The airbridge is completed and awaiting the Emirates treble on Monday. It is now a two bridge gate with the newly fitted bridge being able to go to the second door of wide body aircraft and the second deck of a A380.
It’s of a very similar design to the current bridges fitted to SAT1 so it didn’t look of place.

[pabely]

LHR remains 7 x daily A380, I believe they refused to cancel flights or stop selling as per HAL's demand.
Don't think that is correct. Should be LHR x6, LGW x2 STN x1 daily.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Corrected, it is indeed six as per pre COVID.

[JW95]

Emirates original stated a 5 weekly as they had a pilot shortage for the B77W. Though not massively published it was said if the pilot numbers rose then they would commence daily from 1st August.

Just a show of how well Emirates will be doing they had a one off flight on the 25th July to Dubai after the plane had done a charter for Arsenal FC.
It flew out with every seat full! 310 passengers. For a one off very good and shows good things for the restart of regular flights.

Emirates will bring back a second daily flight. Had heard from the winter season but nothing official announced yet. But I’d say this could be due to ongoing pilot shortages which as said has got better.

In terms of new restaurants and shops in the departure lounge.

Shops:
Tommy Hilfiger
Lego Store
Discovery

Restaurants:
Sunny Side Café
Perch
Comptoir Libanais
Terracotta Italian Kitchen
Bottega Prosecco Bar
Café Nero

New airbridge for A13 Gate 12. The airbridge is completed and awaiting the Emirates treble on Monday. It is now a two bridge gate with the newly fitted bridge being able to go to the second door of wide body aircraft and the second deck of a A380.
It’s of a very similar design to the current bridges fitted to SAT1 so it didn’t look of place.
Any pictures of the new dual airbridge at gate 12?

Many thanks for the info RE. new shops and restaurants at STN- looks like a nice choice there. Which ones have now closed permanently? (As I'm unsure whether the STN webpage has been fully updated yet)

[commit aviation]

New airbridge for A13 Gate 12. The airbridge is completed and awaiting the Emirates treble on Monday. It is now a two bridge gate with the newly fitted bridge being able to go to the second door of wide body aircraft and the second deck of a A380.
It’s of a very similar design to the current bridges fitted to SAT1 so it didn’t look of place.

The new bridge won't be used for the first few days. It is nearly ready but a few things delaying the final handover

[davidjohnson6]

Forgive me if I am a but cynical, but new shops and restaurants in an airport doesn't do it for me. The queues in Pret (both branches) at peak times are far too long to bother with.

Is there any chance of the quiet seating area, downstairs next to Itsu, being refurbished... a couple of coats of paint on the wall and recovering the ripped covers of the foam on the benches would make me really happy. Maybe also put in fresh roof tiles and a new lino floor in the coach station waiting room

[STN406]

New airbridge for A13 Gate 12. The airbridge is completed and awaiting the Emirates treble on Monday. It is now a two bridge gate with the newly fitted bridge being able to go to the second door of wide body aircraft and the second deck of a A380.
It’s of a very similar design to the current bridges fitted to SAT1 so it didn’t look of place.

The new bridge won't be used for the first few days. It is nearly ready but a few things delaying the final handover

Yes I’ve seen that as I’ve come to work tonight. Looks like EK will use A11 for now.

[VickersVicount]

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/emirates-relaunches-daily-stansted-flights-to-dubai

[pabely]

Did the previous service stay on the ground for 8 hours before?

[STN406]

Emirates passenger figures:

321 on the arriving flight. 357 on the departing one.

[Paulesx]

Did the previous service stay on the ground for 8 hours before?
The previous service was double daily so involved a lot less ground time

[pabely]

Sitting on ground earns no money unless the strongest figures were the early inbound and late outbound.

[Paulesx]

Sitting on ground earns no money unless the strongest figures were the early inbound and late outbound.
I guess they figure they gain more by keeping plane on the ground to ensure the connections in Dubai with majority of onward points on the return leg.
ethiopian and air mautitus do the same with their Heathrow flights, although for them I suspect this is more to do with slot constraints than by design.

[pabely]

Someone else had the same thoughts as me https://simpleflying.com/emirates-london-stansted-boeing-777-return/

[pamann]

Someone else had the same thoughts as me https://simpleflying.com/emirates-london-stansted-boeing-777-return/

It was no different to when they launched with 1x daily initially. It times better when the service goes 2x daily, which at a guess I would say won’t be too far off.

[Paulesx]

Indeed, a good article actually which explains quite well the reasoning.
45% of the average BLF is point to point STN-DXB traffic, with this being the biggest contributor to the route it makes sense to ensure this has the best timings , overnight departure from STN with a morning arrival into DXB is very well suited. With 45% of the traffic connecting in DXB this time allows connecting to their 2nd largest bank of connecting flights. I would imagine if the p2p market share on this flight was typically lower than 45%, say 20% or something then the flight could well have less ground time in STN and arrive into DXB for the other bank of connecting departures in DXB.
in any case I imagine over time of the average load factors remain around the 80-85% mark a double daily will be on the cards again soon, meaning both the best p2p timings for Dubai pax and best option for onward connecting with those early morning DXB onward connections connecting

[pabely]

It was no different to when they launched with 1x daily initially. It times better when the service goes 2x daily, which at a guess I would say won’t be too far off.
Thanks for that insight.
Timing for x2 daily will depend very much on LHR, if it relaxes it's daily pax cap then I'm sure that will be a priority, if not then STN will see it again sooner rather than later.

[STN406]

Thanks for that insight.
Timing for x2 daily will depend very much on LHR, if it relaxes it's daily pax cap then I'm sure that will be a priority, if not then STN will see it again sooner rather than later.

Heathrow is at 6 a day what it was pre-covid. They have got an agreement with Heathrow on capacity.
So why would Heathrow get priority?
Plus the catchment area Stansted serves is very different from Heathrow. A fact Emirates have pointed out in the past.

[pabely]

Emirates have agreed not to sell any more seats out of LHR so if I want to book a flight with them to Far East via DXB I and forced to use STN or LGW. Once flights are on sale again from LHR I have that choice now. If this capacity cap at LHR continues then I can see x2 STN soon.
If STN catchment is the only factor and that is strong why not do x2 now to get double win?

[STN406]

Emirates have agreed not to sell any more seats out of LHR so if I want to book a flight with them to Far East via DXB I and forced to use STN or LGW. Once flights are on sale again from LHR I have that choice now. If this capacity cap at LHR continues then I can see x2 STN soon.
If STN catchment is the only factor and that is strong why not do x2 now to get double win?

Due to factors previously spoken about on here. One main one being pilot shortage on the trebles.
Heathrow is not the be all and end all for all airlines.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The catchment area for Stansted is not "very different from Heathrow". It has some additional catchment that is incredibly difficult to get to LHR from but the overlap is enormous and LHR has critical mass and 6 daily A380 that are temporarily capacity capped for the summer. It's telling how much prestige people give to wide body legacy long haul, it's remarkable how well STN has done to get Emirates at first, get them back AND get a B77W they can fill First with, something that LGW doesn't see on some rotations where they have high volume A380 with no F. Worrying that the BoE just put interest rates up today but it seems the bulk of the A380s are coming back and so the displaced B777s will need somewhere to go, so STN and EDI may benefit.

[pabely]

I know 777 captains who were dumped by Emirates. Thankfully found other work. If Emirates did approach them to get them back it didn't work - can't treat them like Indian labor.

[compton3bravo]

A bit like British Airways then.

[Sotonsean]

The catchment area for Stansted is not "very different from Heathrow". It has some additional catchment that is incredibly difficult to get to LHR from but the overlap is enormous and LHR has critical mass and 6 daily A380 that are temporarily capacity capped for the summer. It's telling how much prestige people give to wide body legacy long haul, it's remarkable how well STN has done to get Emirates at first, get them back AND get a B77W they can fill First with, something that LGW doesn't see on some rotations where they have high volume A380 with no F. Worrying that the BoE just put interest rates up today but it seems the bulk of the A380s are coming back and so the displaced B777s will need somewhere to go, so STN and EDI may benefit.

Emirates at Stansted no doubt attracts "The only way is Essex" crowd who love anything Dubai.

I have no doubt a route to Orlando would also be a similar success from Stansted and possibly a seasonal Las Vegas, two options that were previously offered from Stansted by the former Thomas Cook.

[inOban]

It will also attract the sheiks visiting their horses at Newmarket.

[compton3bravo]

They come in executive aircraft.

[pabely]

They come in executive aircraft.
Yes why would you go Emirates 1st class when you have your own 747/BBJ/ACJ available which will go and arrive at times which suit you.

[sergy2k]

Noticed a pax Ethiopian A350 inbound to Stansted yesterday. I assume a charter?

[BA318]

Noticed a pax Ethiopian A350 inbound to Stansted yesterday. I assume a charter?

Most likely. They have really been innovative with using their planes while they are on the ground in Europe.

One operated Addis Ababa-Frankfurt. Then Frankfurt-Prague for Lufthansa. Then Prague-Burgas for Smartwings and then back the same.

[Keanaga]

Most likely. They have really been innovative with using their planes while they are on the ground in Europe.

One operated Addis Ababa-Frankfurt. Then Frankfurt-Prague for Lufthansa. Then Prague-Burgas for Smartwings and then back the same.
Hi the ET A350 was on a belly freight charter .

Lagos-Stansted-Mahe.

Regards.

[STN406]

Here are the figures for the first 8 days of Emirates operations restarting at Stansted.



https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/794x816/e4f645f8_efb6_454a_9aec_fe99e565e222_8dd5ffbcbb7e0549561cf60 0357bcbdc6ee486e7.jpeg

[AirportPlanner1]

Outbound load of 97% is very impressive. Assume the inbound will catch up once people start returning from their week in Dubai or far-flung adventures.

[Sioltach Dubh Glas]

Outbound load of 97% is very impressive. Assume the inbound will catch up once people start returning from their week in Dubai or far-flung adventures.
Very definitely excellent figures however, and pardon my question, has this been inflated by the restrictions on Emirates LHR service?

Either way it's looking promising.

[Keanaga]

LHR situation may be helping, but 2019 pre- pandemic figs were in that region when STN had double daily flights.

[JW95]

Other than Emirates, does anyone think there is potential for further long haul from STN? Previously we did have Air India pre-pandemic, although this has now ceased in favour of LHR, plus Primera, American Airlines, EOS and MaxJet to the US. JetBlue are in the midst of taking on more A321LRs, plus the A321XLR. I'm mindful that in the first instance, they'd want to expand frequency at LHR and LGW, but with more a/c coming online, could they make a go at STN? The A321LR/XLR could be a good fit for STN.

Also, is there any news on POP starting service from STN?

[STN406]

Other than Emirates, does anyone think there is potential for further long haul from STN? Previously we did have Air India pre-pandemic, although this has now ceased in favour of LHR, plus Primera, American Airlines, EOS and MaxJet to the US. JetBlue are in the midst of taking on more A321LRs, plus the A321XLR. I'm mindful that in the first instance, they'd want to expand frequency at LHR and LGW, but with more a/c coming online, could they make a go at STN? The A321LR/XLR could be a good fit for STN.

Also, is there any news on POP starting service from STN?

Pre covid had heard and seen that Singapore and a few of the smaller Chinese airlines where looking to start. In terms of Singapore the rumour was moving the SIN-MAN-IAH to Stansted and Manchester would get a terminator service.

Jetblue did have a good look at Stansted and had acquired slots. But got the prized slots at LHR and LGW to.

Norse Atlantic had also got slots at Stansted but held out for Gatwick ones to.

Air India are still holding slots and have been strongly rumoured to be returning.

Flypop have got the slots, have the office setup and operational in Enterprise house next to the terminal and have got the planes. But lack a UK AOC for the time being. Have heard they are looking to get a deal done with Hifly to operate the flights. But talk of flypop is actually limited within Stansted.

Not long haul but Tunis Air are flying all flights to Stansted currently over Heathrow/Stansted split. Air Algerie also moved operations to Stansted for the summer. Though more than likely these will changed towards the end of summer when Heathrow lifts the capacity limit. But hopefully not and both stay fully at Stansted.

[BA318]

Pre covid had heard and seen that Singapore and a few of the smaller Chinese airlines where looking to start. In terms of Singapore the rumour was moving the SIN-MAN-IAH to Stansted and Manchester would get a terminator service.

Jetblue did have a good look at Stansted and had acquired slots. But got the prized slots at LHR and LGW to.

Norse Atlantic had also got slots at Stansted but held out for Gatwick ones to.

Air India are still holding slots and have been strongly rumoured to be returning.

Flypop have got the slots, have the office setup and operational in Enterprise house next to the terminal and have got the planes. But lack a UK AOC for the time being. Have heard they are looking to get a deal done with Hifly to operate the flights. But talk of flypop is actually limited within Stansted.

Not long haul but Tunis Air are flying all flights to Stansted currently over Heathrow/Stansted split. Air Algerie also moved operations to Stansted for the summer. Though more than likely these will changed towards the end of summer when Heathrow lifts the capacity limit. But hopefully not and both stay fully at Stansted.

Tunisair actually lost some of their LHR and LGW slots. I believe because of multiple breaches of rules. The only link I can find is paywalled but I read it elsewhere too. https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/83977-tunisair-to-lose-some-of-its-heathrow-and-gatwick-slots

[JW95]

Pre covid had heard and seen that Singapore and a few of the smaller Chinese airlines where looking to start. In terms of Singapore the rumour was moving the SIN-MAN-IAH to Stansted and Manchester would get a terminator service.

Jetblue did have a good look at Stansted and had acquired slots. But got the prized slots at LHR and LGW to.

Norse Atlantic had also got slots at Stansted but held out for Gatwick ones to.

Air India are still holding slots and have been strongly rumoured to be returning.

Flypop have got the slots, have the office setup and operational in Enterprise house next to the terminal and have got the planes. But lack a UK AOC for the time being. Have heard they are looking to get a deal done with Hifly to operate the flights. But talk of flypop is actually limited within Stansted.

Not long haul but Tunis Air are flying all flights to Stansted currently over Heathrow/Stansted split. Air Algerie also moved operations to Stansted for the summer. Though more than likely these will changed towards the end of summer when Heathrow lifts the capacity limit. But hopefully not and both stay fully at Stansted.
Singapore Airlines at STN? That would be a very interesting one. But surely would they not be more inclined to move the service over to LHR or LGW? As regards Air India, I note that the previous routes served from STN (Amritsar and Mumbai) are now being served from LHR only, but maybe they'd go back to Stansted to compete against POP, if it ever takes off?

[BA318]

Can’t see SQ going to STN given Scoot didn’t even when they came to London. But never say never I guess.

Does Air Asia X have slots for its next attempt at KUL via DXB otherwise they are a possibility.

[STN406]

Singapore Airlines at STN? That would be a very interesting one. But surely would they not be more inclined to move the service over to LHR or LGW? As regards Air India, I note that the previous routes served from STN (Amritsar and Mumbai) are now being served from LHR only, but maybe they'd go back to Stansted to compete against POP, if it ever takes off?

Same would have been said about Emirates some years ago.Singapore already operate from LHR and can connect onto United’s IAH flights. The idea was it would get good feed from the tech and pharmaceuticals markets in the region particularly in Cambridge.

With Air India the ATQ route was a good choice at STN due to the links to Punjabi diaspora in the region. BOM was initially started as at the time Air India was struggling to gain additional slots at LHR. But was rumoured to start despite gain the nessary slots at LHR at the time.

[AirportPlanner1]

BOM was only temporary, announced and launched very quickly mid-season but to shift to LHR upon start of the summer schedule. Of course it became a very short-lived venture for obvious reasons.

ATQ was amongst a number of low frequency routes launched at LHR to fill slots. Once the core destination frequencies have been fully reinstated or slots they’re borrowing returned it’s very plausible they’ll return to STN.

[JW95]

Same would have been said about Emirates some years ago.Singapore already operate from LHR and can connect onto United’s IAH flights. The idea was it would get good feed from the tech and pharmaceuticals markets in the region particularly in Cambridge.

With Air India the ATQ route was a good choice at STN due to the links to Punjabi diaspora in the region. BOM was initially started as at the time Air India was struggling to gain additional slots at LHR. But was rumoured to start despite gain the nessary slots at LHR at the time.
RE. Singapore Airlines, I'd be intrigued to hear more about this, if there is more info?. As you rightly highlight, a IAH-STN-SIN service could well benefit from all the tech and pharmaceutical firms in the STN catchment area. Plus, with MAG being the owner of both MAN and STN, perhaps they have a chance of persuading SQ to shift the service from MAN to STN. Having another UK gateway for SQ, similar to how CX did with LHR and LGW pre-pandemic wouldn't hurt either, and would only serve to benefit passengers living within the STN catchment area. The A350 has been phenomenal in allowing airlines such as SQ and CX to open up new, 'thinner' long-haul routes, so perhaps STN could be one of those?

RE. Air India, it would be nice to see them back at Stansted. With LHR plagued with numerous capacity restrictions and staff shortages at present, perhaps they'd be willing to reinstate their ATQ flight from here? Having said that, LGW has lost a significant chunk of its long-haul as a result of Covid, so I'm conscious they'd be competing hard against STN to win Air India over.

[LTNman]

Pecking order for the flag carriers.

Heathrow
Gatwick,
Stansted,
Luton
Southend.

Doesn’t say much for Stansted and says even less for Luton. As for Southend they appear to be off the radar to even the LCC’s

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I'd be astonished to see Singapore at Ryanair Intl! The point about Emirates fails to remember just how exceptional Emirates are, first choice for UK long haul going East, B777s out of BHX/GLA/NCL/EDI over and a above the usual suspects pre COVID. Singapore would be a dramatic change of strategy. Air India really do seem to have gotten hold of a load of LHR slots, their 4 daily offering is now around 5 I think?

[Rutan16]

I'd be astonished to see Singapore at Ryanair Intl! The point about Emirates fails to remember just how exceptional Emirates are, first choice for UK long haul going East, B777s out of BHX/GLA/NCL/EDI over and a above the usual suspects pre COVID. Singapore would be a dramatic change of strategy. Air India really do seem to have gotten hold of a load of LHR slots, their 4 daily offering is now around 5 I think?

TATAs eyes are on more Tech to Tech shuttles however are tied down by the generally poor maintenance of the current Air India long haul fleet - they are looking at used 77w frames as an intermediary fleet uplift as the few 77L are withdrawn soon, and any further expansion to Europe seems a distant dream; that includes the resurrection of BHX capacity to match pre COVID19 levels any time soon.

Bear in mind they have lost two 77w frames to government use, have at least one 787 out of service - VT-ANT hasn’t flown for a year with a further three parked since the beginning of the year whilst several 77w frames also remain parked

TATAs focus must be to make a basket case profitable and quickly.

That means core routes ( hub to hub and alliance partnership priorities) over secondary to secondary routes to appease certain vocal political and ethnic groupings

A large part of the financial ignorance of Air India has been the result of placing political interests over basic commercial objectives for decades past.

As for Singapore I don’t see MAG group ever considering or sponsoring a transfer of this key long haul passenger route south. Different matter regarding freight through.

The Houston tag from Singapore hasn’t ever been particularly successful either via Moscow or Manchester in the movement of organic blobs through certainly had for pallets of all sorts .

One thing through is they do codeshare to a limited of beyond Houston destinations with United from homebase but not from Manchester.

I think this is a regulatory restriction from the US (7th and 8th freedoms are not covered) by any of the relevant treaties

[JW95]

Undoubtably this has been raised before, but what STN would really benefit from is faster rail services to London. Currently, journeys on the Stansted Express into Liverpool Street take approximately 50 minutes, sometimes longer, each running every 30 minutes or so. In comparison, LGW sees 30 minute rail connections into London, which has undoubtably allowed GIP to attract more airlines to Gatwick. I remember that MAG were vigorously campaigning for faster rail services from STN shortly after they took over in 2013, but it all seems to have gone quiet. Are faster rail links still on the agenda? I'm convinced that having these in place would allow STN and MAG to better compete for new airlines going forward. Granted, MAG have done very well since taking over from BAA, especially with the likes of Emirates, however, surely there is even more scope for STN to attract a greater mix of airlines?

[pabely]

Isn't the problem the lack of rail tracks, any fast service has to sit behind a stopping service at some point so is not a fast service, just one which stops less?
LGW has multiple tracks, LHR dedicated tracks & LTN has 4 for fast & slow service mix?

[_aax1]

The only way 4 tracking will become realistic is if Crossrail 2 happens in its current iteration, which is highly unlikely any time soon.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

How long did the then-new Stansted Express take in 1991 when the new Terminal
opened? Just for context, anyone know?

[cavokblues]

41 mins according to this link https://www.nsers.org/1991.html

[daz211]

LTNman, I don’t think longhaul from LTN would work for passengers especially Americans, for some reason Luton Airport thinks it’s acceptable to advertise itself as LLA and dropped LTN from all media and signage.
This would be very confusing for Americans.

[Cuillin Hills]

Tottenham Hale is reached in 35 minutes from/to London Stansted - this gives direct connections on to the tube network.

Not everyone wishes to go to Liverpool Street/Central London/Victoria


Stansted has a much better coach network in to London (Stratford/Victoria) - Gatwick has no real coach feed in to London and relies on the direct rail link.

Found this out to my cost when I arrived at Gatwick a few weeks ago when the train strike was on - people had no means of leaving or arriving at Gatwick other than by car, taxi (3 hour queues) or local bus.

[JW95]

The only way 4 tracking will become realistic is if Crossrail 2 happens in its current iteration, which is highly unlikely any time soon.
Shame, but also understandable :( Is there any other way in the interim at least that MAG could attract a more diverse airline mix to STN, including more long haul? Emirates have already demonstrated that demand for full service long haul from STN can work, and I'm sure that the 2nd daily frequency will be restored soon.

I also think that it is a shame that STN currently lacks a European feeder airline (no doubt this has largely been due to FR). In the past, Stansted has seen KLM (AMS), Lufthansa (FRA) and SAS (CPH), and AB (TXL, DUS) and of course KLM UK did have a sizeable operation at one point, with various destinations beyond AMS. With EZY now running less services to AMS than previously following the base closure, it would be nice to see KLM back at STN, as this would open up a whole host of connections via Amsterdam.

[DC3 Dave]

Shame, but also understandable :( Is there any other way in the interim at least that MAG could attract a more diverse airline mix to STN, including more long haul? Emirates have already demonstrated that demand for full service long haul from STN can work, and I'm sure that the 2nd daily frequency will be restored soon.

I also think that it is a shame that STN currently lacks a European feeder airline (no doubt this has largely been due to FR). In the past, Stansted has seen KLM (AMS), Lufthansa (FRA) and SAS (CPH), and AB (TXL, DUS) and of course KLM UK did have a sizeable operation at one point, with various destinations beyond AMS. With EZY now running less services to AMS than previously following the base closure, it would be nice to see KLM back at STN, as this would open up a whole host of connections via Amsterdam.

AMS is actively seeking to reduce its status as a major hub for environmental reasons.

[davidjohnson6]

Would Eurowings returning or even Lufthansa turning up be feasible for STN ?
Or maybe Transavia or Hop! to Paris ?

[JW95]

Would Eurowings returning or even Lufthansa turning up be feasible for STN ?
Or maybe Transavia or Hop! to Paris ?
My thoughts exactly. With FR now having retrenched to Hahn, could Lufthansa/Eurowings make STN-FRA work? Again, it would be great if LH did come back, as connections via FRA are vast. CDG is now also absent, following EZY's base closure, so it would be good to see it make a return.

[pamann]

TK to Istanbul (as opposed to AnadoluJet to SAW) would be a great way to open up more worldwide connections.

AMS definitely needs a better connection IMHO KLM would be the one to do this.

USA wise - Could we see Norse or JetBlue in the future? Aer Lingus via DUB would also open up westbound Atlantic connections.

[daz211]

TK to Istanbul (as opposed to AnadoluJet to SAW) would be a great way to open up more worldwide connections.

AMS definitely needs a better connection IMHO KLM would be the one to do this.

US wise - Could we see Norse or JetBlue in the future? Aer Lingus via DUB would also open up westbound Atlantic connections.
If Aer Lingus does ever come to STN I would imagine it would be EI UK maybe a mirror image of their MAN operation over the pond would work nicely.

[SWBKCB]

I also think that it is a shame that STN currently lacks a European feeder airline (no doubt this has largely been due to FR). In the past, Stansted has seen KLM (AMS), Lufthansa (FRA) and SAS (CPH), and AB (TXL, DUS)

So what has changed that would now make these routes viable?

[davidjohnson6]

So what has changed that would now make these routes viable?
A - Covid is now substantially over, and air travel demand is strong again, allowing airlines to reactivate planned routes that might have opened in 2021 if there had not been a pandemic
B - Ryanair ceased flying to FRA, shows no interest in MUC and minimal interest in AMS
C - Easyjet cut back significantly at STN and dropped a STN-MUC route and (I think) a STN-CDG route
D - Heathrow this summer has shown the dangers of all eggs in one basket
E - Easyjet and Ryanair have substantially withdrawn from Southend which had a strong SEN-AMS route. KLM's Manston route did surprisingly well until Manston was closed
F - Transavia seems to be growing fast in Paris, and Air France unions don't seem to be making that much noise over this
G - Lufthansa seem to be more interested in UK regions after opening routes from FRA to Bristol and Liverpool
H - Jet2 have completely pulled out of AMS this summer

I don't think that SAS should be touching STN any time soon - they are far too weak financially to do anything and need to remain highly risk averse right now.

[JW95]

TK to Istanbul (as opposed to AnadoluJet to SAW) would be a great way to open up more worldwide connections.

AMS definitely needs a better connection IMHO KLM would be the one to do this.

USA wise - Could we see Norse or JetBlue in the future? Aer Lingus via DUB would also open up westbound Atlantic connections.

Would definitely agree with you on TK. I always thought it was a shame that Turkish Airlines closed STN in 2009 in favour of LGW, as there is a huge demand for flights to Turkey from Stansted. I don't see why TK couldn't reinstate services to IST that complement and/or replace the current SAW service, given that both AnadoluJet and Pegasus both serve this route. As you say, the advantage of TK returning to STN would be that vastly more connections would be opened up that SAW does not have.

RE. KLM- completely agree also. There are some days where the existing EZY service offers only one rotation/day, while other days don't see any rotations at all. I think it's obvious that easyJet do not intend to reopen their STN base any time in the near future, hence an increase in services to AMS with better times/frequency is also very unlikely. If passengers want better times, they are essentially forced to use EZY via LGW or LTN instead. I think KLM could do very well on the route due to the vast connections available.

USA - I don't think Norse would wish to have a dual London operation from a cost-based perspective. IIRC, they did initially secure slots at STN before opting for LGW once slots there became available. LGW is also being flagged up as a base for Norse once they establish their UK based subsidiary, making an entry to STN even less likely. If anything, I do see scope for JetBlue to serve STN once more aircraft come online, and they have a sufficient number of daily rotations at both LHR and LGW before moving onto consider a third London airport. But I do think this will be some time yet. It's a shame that American Airlines couldn't make STN work when they tried in the 1990s and 2007-8, as it would be nice to see them back, perhaps this time with one of their A321NEOs.

[JW95]

A - Covid is now substantially over, and air travel demand is strong again, allowing airlines to reactivate planned routes that might have opened in 2021 if there had not been a pandemic
B - Ryanair ceased flying to FRA, shows no interest in MUC and minimal interest in AMS
C - Easyjet cut back significantly at STN and dropped a STN-MUC route and (I think) a STN-CDG route
D - Heathrow this summer has shown the dangers of all eggs in one basket
E - Easyjet and Ryanair have substantially withdrawn from Southend which had a strong SEN-AMS route. KLM's Manston route did surprisingly well until Manston was closed
F - Transavia seems to be growing fast in Paris, and Air France unions don't seem to be making that much noise over this
G - Lufthansa seem to be more interested in UK regions after opening routes from FRA to Bristol and Liverpool
H - Jet2 have completely pulled out of AMS this summer

I don't think that SAS should be touching STN any time soon - they are far too weak financially to do anything and need to remain highly risk averse right now.
Well said davidjohnson6! I think there is a case for an FRA route from STN, especially now with FR's withdrawal. If MAG really want to expand long haul from STN which I believe they do, then LH would be a fantastic 'new' airline in offering long haul connections. Plus, with LHR facing a barrage of capacity restrictions until the end of October (which may well be extended beyond that date), STN could be a viable alternative for an airline looking to expand its presence in the London market. However, there is also the argument that LGW would also be competing for the same services, hence airlines would need to assess both to see which one is more likely to be profitable for them.

[Keanaga]

Goes back to double daily after the summer.

[daz211]

Keep an eye on FlyPOP, rumoured to want to use STN as a feeder to the US in year 3/4, and yes I know they have a long way to go and certain milestones to reach but they have already achieved more than many predicted.

[AirportPlanner1]

Looking at winter break options and seems like there’s a lot of frequency reductions and destinations going seasonal which I haven’t seen mentioned, and which I think had been on sale previously. Assume this isn’t unique to Ryanair, or indeed to STN.

[WHBM]

Been a couple of years since I parked at Stansted, but what has happened to the considerable parking provision walking from the terminal, including the recent extension round the north end (Blue parking ?). Just not offered at all on their official website, only remote bus links and meet/greet.

[AirportPlanner1]

Been a couple of years since I parked at Stansted, but what has happened to the considerable parking provision walking from the terminal, including the recent extension round the north end (Blue parking ?). Just not offered at all on their official website, only remote bus links and meet/greet.

When are you looking at? If it’s imminent it may just be full up.

[WHBM]

When are you looking at? If it’s imminent it may just be full up.
No, I tested that by looking at booking a month and more further ahead, same then.

[Buster the Bear]

A - Covid is now substantially over.

No, but now there is a yet another elephant in the room for the airlines, 'RECESSION'. Discretionary spending the world over is going to be pinched massively.

[AirportPlanner1]

No, I tested that by looking at booking a month and more further ahead, same then.

Its certainly there in October for all walkable zones but it disappears as an option if you increase the length of stay beyond a few days.

[Buster the Bear]

Huge Solar Farm. https://www.air101.co.uk/2022/08/london-stansted-receives-planning.html

[brian_dromey]

USA - I don't think Norse would wish to have a dual London operation from a cost-based perspective. IIRC, they did initially secure slots at STN before opting for LGW once slots there became available. LGW is also being flagged up as a base for Norse once they establish their UK based subsidiary, making an entry to STN even less likely. If anything, I do see scope for JetBlue to serve STN once more aircraft come online, and they have a sufficient number of daily rotations at both LHR and LGW before moving onto consider a third London airport. But I do think this will be some time yet. It's a shame that American Airlines couldn't make STN work when they tried in the 1990s and 2007-8, as it would be nice to see them back, perhaps this time with one of their A321NEOs.

I can't see AA at STN, their JV partner has more slots at LHR and LGW than they know what to do with given the demand, crew shortages and fleet retirements. As another poster said, the cost of living/recession situation in the UK is going to put a considerable dent in ex-UK demand. The Ukraine war puts a dent in ex-US demand, even if the USD remains strong compared to GBP and EUR.

I think Norse were probably the best chance STN has of west-bound long-haul, as a point to point airline. While EK has shown that ex-STN can work, they have such a huge hub in Dubai that it makes AA or B6's East Cost hubs look like regional focus cities, they cant get more slots in London for their hub banks. The p2p is just gravy. I think its fair to say that no-one has made long-haul point-to-point work yet, from the days of Laker's skytrain right the way through to Virgin Atlantic, Thomas Cook and Norwegian. The utilisation just cant be made high enough to get the unit costs low enough to sustainably offer low-fares without bleeding to death. The US3/EU3 are prepared to match/subsidise these loss leaders with profits from Premium and Business Class and higher fares on routes where they face no competition.

[danielson81]

Is there a reason why every flight on Stansted's official webpage says "refer to airline" as its status? It has been like this for weeks, if not months.

I imagine some people are unaware of FlightRadar24 and other sources of information.

[JW95]

Are there any updates as to when we could see FlyPop's services commence from STN?

Also, there was a discussion earlier in the thread that MAG have supposedly scrapped the arrivals building in favour of a second terminal and fourth satellite. Does anyone know more on this and when we may see the revised plans?

[ATNotts]

Are there any updates as to when we could see FlyPop's services commence from STN?


Without an AOC it is hard to see how they are going to get permissions from the Indian or UK authorities to operate any services. Having a pretty livery on an aircraft that isn't actually yours, and registered in a third country is unlikely to impress either governing body. I would make a small wager that Hans Airways will be first in the "race" to get up and running in their own right. Not that the first carrier is necessarily, in the longer term to be the successful one. With AI already upping their game on ATQ/BHX Hans could find it tough.

[WHBM]

Came through early Wednesday, arriving after 0130 on Jet2. Late, as were a number of others. Took 75 minutes of queueing, until after 0300, to even reach an immigration officer in the queue. In fact, by the time we finally were leaving the terminal, there were considerable numbers arriving for the first 0600 flights. Quite a few points.

- There seemed to be, by my judgement, about 2,000-plus people in the queue, say 12 or more737-800s worth. By 0300, looking back, the queue seemed to be the same, subsequent arrivals were just adding to numbers at the rate they were being handled.

- The Transit had been shut down, possibly for the night, and bus transfers were being used instead, which decanted passengers to get to immigration by a series of emergency exit doors opened for them.

- There is now the most enormous zig-zag queueing area set up for immigration, which now occupies a significant percentage of the Norman Foster 1991 terminal building. This is clearly a daily event.

- Despite this, the queue extended way back before this provision, right down the steep stairs approach from the buses, surely a safety hazard which the airport has chosen to ignore.

- Checking nightly since, the number of actual post-midnight arrivals was the norm. So presumably this happens every night.

- There is a huge and continuous publicity string all the way along about being ready for the e-passport gates, an extensive artwork campaign that must have cost a considerable sum, with sneering comments about "needing to be ready" for them, but without the slightest helpful indication on who can use them and who not.

- And guess what, they were all closed (25 e-passport gates) anyway, and everyone sent to manual checking. So all the expensive signage etc was a complete waste of time. If it's going to be turned off, don't stick up umpteen permanent signs telling everyone to be ready for it.

- The other continuously signed aspect is all about don't abuse the staff, etc, there must be 30 to 40 such notices, endorsed by every public agency you can think of in varying combinations - MAG, Essex police, immigration, Uncle Tom Cobbley, etc. What a first time impression for arriving visitors.

- One wondered whether toilets should be provided halfway along the queue. A number were in obvious distress.

- One does wonder that if the management spent less time on sticking up irrelevant mass notices, and more on organising to handle the numbers they willingly sign up for with airlines (after all, it wasn't as if we weren't expected that night), things would be a lot better.

- I would say that the immigration staff themselves, once finally reached, were still spot on in pleasantness and professionalism. Unfortunately I can't say that about the whining, shouting, uniform-dishevelled, stoned-looking, airport-employed queue marshals, who appeared to wish they had been issued with cattle prods to handle the crowds.

- Of course, management will say that immigration is "nuffin' to do wiv' me, mate". But the airport management's job is to pull together ALL the aspects of the operation, and come down on any part that is giving issues. Now I know that the upper management approach is never to complain, always to deflect, about issues with immigration and customs, because they are too close to the approvals team in Whitehall for CBEs etc, but that's just too bad, the management have to run the show. Besides which MAG chairman Sir Adrian Montague has already got his CBE and knighthood, so little to lose.

[davidjohnson6]

Air departure tax in the Netherlands will increase by 20 euros from the start of next year. Ryanair's route between Stansted and Maastricht always seems to be the cheapest way to fly between the UK and the Netherlands (or nearby areas of Belgium and Germany). I'm wondering if this route might be cut in the near future...

[STN406]

With the summer holidays now over I have looked at the Emirates figures for the month of August and this is the result.

Total departing passenger: 10284
This works out to a 93% load factor for the month.
Total arriving passengers: 10416
This works out to a 96% load factor for the month.
Overall the load factor for the month was 94%

Very impressive loads for the month. Obviously being the summer holiday it’s likely these loads may drop but if memory serves me right the average load factor prior to the service suspended before covid was 83% overall on the double daily flights.
Still looks to on the cards for the second flight to resume soon. Talk around the airport is to have it commence for the winter schedule. But still no official announcement.
For the winter schedule the flight times do change.

EK65 DXB 0820-1210 STN
EK66 STN 1355-0050 +1 STN

The double airbridge that has been constructed on Alpha 13 linking to Gate 12. This is still having issues with installation by contractor ‘Volker Fitzpatrick’. From what I hear it was looking to be signed off this week. But didn’t hear that this had been done. Hopefully this can be done next week.

[OzzyOzBorn]

I have seen reports that the artificial cap imposed on daily pax numbers using LHR has resulted in some demand being displaced to alternative departure airports nearby. The Emirates departures from STN and LGW (amongst others) would be temporarily boosted by this. But the question becomes what load factors will be sustainable once LHR is again permitted to accommodate "normal" levels of demand? What is the underlying load factor from STN on a long-term view? That is the number which will determine capacity planning for the route going forward.

[STN406]

I have seen reports that the artificial cap imposed on daily pax numbers using LHR has resulted in some demand being displaced to alternative departure airports nearby. The Emirates departures from STN and LGW (amongst others) would be temporarily boosted by this. But the question becomes what load factors will be sustainable once LHR is again permitted to accommodate "normal" levels of demand? What is the underlying load factor from STN on a long-term view? That is the number which will determine capacity planning for the route going forward.

Well like I said from my memory the load factor prior service suspension on the double daily flights was 83%. There wouldn’t be talk of resuming the second flight if Stansted was only succeeding due to Heathrow’s passenger cap.
Stansted was a stand alone operation before and succeeded very well to the level Emirates wanted to add more than the double daily flights. Yes the loads might be slightly higher due to the Heathrow capacity limit but it’s not making a huge impact.
In fact prior to Heathrow having the cap, Stansted already had flights sold out for certain days.

[davidjohnson6]

Air Albania seems to be having some issues with their equivalent of Companies House...

[STN406]

Air Albania seems to be having some issues with their equivalent of Companies House...

Surprising thought Air Albania where backed by Turkish Airlines?

[davidjohnson6]

Surprising thought Air Albania where backed by Turkish Airlines?
That might be the cause of the problem. Air Albania have yet to make a formal declaration as to who their beneficial owners are... and the Albanian companies registrar is not impressed

[STN406]

That might be the cause of the problem. Air Albania have yet to make a formal declaration as to who their beneficial owners are... and the Albanian companies registrar is not impressed

Ah I can see why they are in a slight bit of bother then

[daz211]

Some interesting arrivals due today,

Biman Bangladesh B789 -15:17 ETA 16:17.
Juneyao Airlines B789 - 21:40 ETA 19:51.

[JW95]

Was doing some reading earlier this week on the former KLM UK STN operation during 1998-2003. Prior to handing over to Buzz, what routes, other than AMS, did KLM serve from STN? Also, does anyone have any pictures of the old KLM Executive Lounge in satellite 2 before it was closed down and turned into what is now the Wetherspoons Express pub?

[pamann]

Was doing some reading earlier this week on the former KLM UK STN operation during 1998-2003. Prior to handing over to Buzz, what routes, other than AMS, did KLM serve from STN? Also, does anyone have any pictures of the old KLM Executive Lounge in satellite 2 before it was closed down and turned into what is now the Wetherspoons Express pub?

From memory KLM UK operated most routes that were previously flown by AirUK;
Aberdeen, Glasgow, Edinburgh & Inverness
Jersey & Guernsey
Amsterdam, Paris, Nice, Frankfurt, Düsseldorf, Hamburg, Innsbruck, Zurich, Milan & Florence. Possibly more.

[AMC737]

I think Air UKs peak operation was 1996/97 prior to becoming KLM UK, I think Rotterdam was launched in 1996 and was 4 daily, Inverness was launched after maybe in 1997 and I think was the last Air UK route. I believe the only new KLM UK route launched at Stansted was Rome as KLM and Alitalia had an alliance - this also at the time saw Alitalia flights (operated by Azzura Air) at Stansted. By then however routes to Madrid and Nice had been dropped, these has been mid-day fillers between the morning and afternoon peaks and suffered from newly formed easyjet at Luton, Rotterdam was moved to London City, while other routes got downgraded, Zurich was operated by a Suckling Do338 and Paris by Gill Air ATR's. The arrival of Go all had effect as they launched rotues to places like Copenhagen which Air UK served.

amc737

[Cuillin Hills]

Basically, after about 1999, KLM lost almost all interest in London Stansted and managed to offload Buzz for a pittance to Ryanair a few years later.

They only wanted the UK connections in to Amsterdam and the opportunity to offload some nearly worthless, early model, F100 and F70.

They then treated the UK employed crews pretty badly.

My thoughts are that Buzz was going in the right direction and would have done very well.

I very much enjoyed my time with AirUK.

[Sotonsean]

[QUOTE=JW95;11297299]Was doing some reading earlier this week on the former KLM UK STN operation during 1998-2003. Prior to handing over to Buzz, what routes, other than AMS, did KLM serve from STN? Also, does anyone have any pictures of the old KLM Executive Lounge in satellite 2 before it was closed down and turned into what is now the Wetherspoons Express pub?[/QUOTE

Although it doesn't answer your questions regarding KLM UK at London Stansted Airport which others have covered in nicely. I've attached a link to something that might be of interest to you. You may well be familiar with departed flights.com. The link covers schedules for London Stansted Airport for 1996.

STN96intro (http://www.departedflights.com/STN96intro.html)

Hopefully the link works.

[AMC737]

I checked my old records, when Air UK became KLM UK in early 1998 the following routes where flown from Stansted

Aberdeen, Amsterdam, Brussels, Dusseldorf, Edinburgh, Frankfurt, Glasgow, Guernsey, Inverness, Jersey, Milan (Linate), Newcastle (UK flight numbers but operated by Gill Air) , Paris (CDG)
Hamburg had Gill flight numbers by operated in association with KLM UK. Braathans, Eurowings and KLM Excel services also operated in association with KLM UK.

I think by the time KLM UK became Buzz, only Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Milan and Paris where left from the old network, KLM UK continued to operate Amsterdam until this became a Buzz route

amc737

[JW95]

Thank you so much for those insights all of you, genuinely appreciated :) Before the rise of FR, STN was clearly a very different place back then to the airport it is today, with more full service carriers, including KLM UK, Lufthansa and SAS serving the airport. The AMS route especially is now just a shadow of its former self at STN, seeing a maximum of 2 rotations daily, compared to KLM UK's 5-6 daily operation. It is a great shame that KLM didn't return to STN once Buzz was closed- it would be great to see them back at Stansted, where I'm sure they would be able to provide more frequencies compared to the EZY service. Plus a KL service from STN would be a great feeder route.

[STN406]

Thank you so much for those insights all of you, genuinely appreciated :) Before the rise of FR, STN was clearly a very different place back then to the airport it is today, with more full service carriers, including KLM UK, Lufthansa and SAS serving the airport. The AMS route especially is now just a shadow of its former self at STN, seeing a maximum of 2 rotations daily, compared to KLM UK's 5-6 daily operation. It is a great shame that KLM didn't return to STN once Buzz was closed- it would be great to see them back at Stansted, where I'm sure they would be able to provide more frequencies compared to the EZY service. Plus a KL service from STN would be a great feeder route.

This has been mentioned many times before could KLM return. They would definitely do well on point to point traffic and connecting traffic. 3-4 times a day on Embraer’s would be ideal.
But KLM have never shown much interest in start Stansted operations. Never say never and coming out of a covid, a lot stronger than was expected it’s possible but I think still unlikely.

[pabely]

Thank you so much for those insights all of you, genuinely appreciated :) Before the rise of FR, STN was clearly a very different place back then to the airport it is today, with more full service carriers, including KLM UK, Lufthansa and SAS serving the airport. The AMS route especially is now just a shadow of its former self at STN, seeing a maximum of 2 rotations daily, compared to KLM UK's 5-6 daily operation. It is a great shame that KLM didn't return to STN once Buzz was closed- it would be great to see them back at Stansted, where I'm sure they would be able to provide more frequencies compared to the EZY service. Plus a KL service from STN would be a great feeder route.
The last place you would want to transit via at the moment - see Schiphol airport thread.

[AMC737]

To be fair Ryanair actually predate most full service carriers, Lufthansa's first route was to Munich which was in response to Go flying there, Frankfurt followed but Ryanair at this point already flew to Hahn - this was one of Ryanairs earliest non Stansted-Ireland routes. SAS have had a number of stints but again first Oslo was started in response to Color Air, Copenhagen to Go. At points in the late 90's/early 00's some routes had 3 carriers competing (e.g Frankfurt, Oslo, Glasgow) which was never going to last. 9/11 put pay to SAS and Lufthansa. I think what may prevent a Stansted return KLM now is a decent London City frequency, not just from KLM but from British Airways cityflyer. The same could be said for Gatwick, Transavia flew to Amsterdam for years but aside from British Airways (if we count them as full service) there is a few non low cost european carriers feeding a hub, Air Europa, Aer Lingus, TAP, Turkish come to mind

amc737

[jdcg]

Anyone know which VIP flights have been coming in to STN today ?

[BA318]

Anyone know which VIP flights have been coming in to STN today ?

Kuwait Gov A340-500 just landed. Japanese Gov 777-300ER x2 arrived yesterday.

[Keanaga]

Namibian Falcon
Sir Senegal A320
Egyptair A32n
Moroccan gov B737
Kuwait A340
Japanese B777
AF1
Brunei B748 (since positioned to LGW)
Canadian A310 + CL60

Many more

Regards

[davidjohnson6]

STN - Dole seems to have disappeared completely from FR's app, and all dates are showing as unavailable to book on the FR website. Perhaps a temporary glitch, a re-organisation of flight dates, some last minute negotiations over marketing support taking place, or maybe a winter seasonal route that will not resume later this year ?

[AirportPlanner1]

STN - Dole seems to have disappeared completely from FR's app, and all dates are showing as unavailable to book on the FR website. Perhaps a temporary glitch, a re-organisation of flight dates, some last minute negotiations over marketing support taking place, or maybe a winter seasonal route that will not resume later this year ?

I noted a few weeks back that there has been a chopping of routes and frequencies for winter compared to what was originally available.

[JW95]

With Ryanair reinstating service to Edinburgh and Belfast this winter, are EZY likely to continue their own services on these routes, given how far they have scaled back at STN? If they do discontinue EDI and BFS, that would leave them with just two routes from STN (AMS and GLA) :(

[22/04]

It depends on a variety of things - pricing timings etc.

Ryanair are predatory at STN- it is heir heartland and they will take on anyone where they perceive they can make money and potentially out compete. That's the way a market economy works.

I speak to lots of folk who think Easy should have stayed there including a pilot who works for Easy. They are I am afraid wrong for as long as it is dominated by Ryanair.

Does it matter as long as STN is connected to GLA and EDI?

[JW95]

It depends on a variety of things - pricing timings etc.

Ryanair are predatory at STN- it is heir heartland and they will take on anyone where they perceive they can make money and potentially out compete. That's the way a market economy works.

I speak to lots of folk who think Easy should have stayed there including a pilot who works for Easy. They are I am afraid wrong for as long as it is dominated by Ryanair.

Does it matter as long as STN is connected to GLA and EDI?
From a customer standpoint, the lack of competition on both these routes, should EZY should decide to pull out, could result in higher fares charged by the sole remaining carrier on GLA and EDI (i.e. FR). So one could argue that more competition would benefit the passenger from a price standpoint, but also frequency perspective. Both EDI and GLA have been long standing routes for many years for EZY at STN, so it would be a shame to lose them.

What is even more concerning is if EZY decided on a total withdrawal from STN, as this would mean no service to AMS from STN.

[inOban]

EZY provide early services southbound and late northbound, which probably suits most PAX. FR will provide the opposite (the last southbound EZY flight is at 19.05). I wonder how successful it will be,

[pabely]

Have to agree, might be fine for those without an agenda but to get an almost full day working you would stick with EZY. If the flight goes tu as well, a good chance of getting on a Gatwick or Luton flight, with RYR you are left high and dry.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

There were well publicised complaints from M'OL last time when UK domestics were pulled under much more favourable trading conditions with the aircraft deployed to "more profitable routes", I wonder what's changed? This will be surely be a Ryanair UK (RK/RUK) operation, I wonder if they need more routes and flying for internal reasons? BA haven't even brought back LGW-EDI so UK domestic is clearly still a challenge.

[FRatSTN]

UK domestics were pulled under much more favourable trading conditions with the aircraft deployed to "more profitable routes", I wonder what's changed?

The rate of APD is due to be cut on UK domestic routes from April 2023
Rates for Air Passenger Duty - GOV.UK ( (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/rates-and-allowances-for-air-passenger-duty)www.gov.uk)

[AirportPlanner1]

The general EZY times of circa 8-8:30 northbound and 18:30-19:30 southbound also work well for those of us living in the south. Overwhelmingly when I’ve flown south on late flights (BA/BE/EZY) loads have been weak, but the aircraft coming in from London to pick us up always look much busier. This similarly applies to DUB but FR have run late flights to LTN and STN for years so I’m sure they know what they’re doing and what to expect.

[STN406]

Easyjet and Ryanair competed on these routes prior. Why would Ryanair restarting these routes scare Easyjet off now?
I can’t see Easyjet going from Stansted completely. Loads are always good and consistent. I flew to and from Edinburgh last week both flight on an A319 with 140 plus each way, at least 30 bags in the hold on the return and a good few people buying bits onboard to.

[Buster the Bear]

Emirates A380s? https://www.key.aero/article/are-emirates-airbus-a380s-coming-stansted

[davidjohnson6]

During the summer just finished, Jet2 flew STN-Bourgas from mid May to the end of September. Bourgas is flown by Jet2 from multiple other bases in the UK as well. All predictable stuff that you would expect from Jet2

Jet2 have chosen to operate the route in 2024 but not in 2023. Was this just a c*ck-up by somebody, lack of aircraft or some other reason for skipping a year ?

[FRatSTN]

Given the situation in Russia-Ukraine, I wouldn't imagine Bulgaria is particularly high on many people's wish-list of countries to visit at the moment.

[leadinghand]

Rumour mill says that HiFly are swapping out the 321 next year for a 340??? Business must be good

[pamann]

Rumour mill says that HiFly are swapping out the 321 next year for a 340??? Business must be good

Assuming that is for Jet2? Is the HiFly A340in an all economy config?

[STN406]

Jet2 have announced further expansion to Stansted for next summer. A base of 15 aircraft raising to 16 in peak summer. No new routes apart from what has been previously announced.
No mention on of these will be all Jet2 aircraft or some to be leased in again from the likes of Titan and HiFly.
In sure that Titan will be used as I doubt Jet2 will have enough of there own A321’s in to cover Stansted.

Link to this news release about expansion below.

https://simpleflying.com/jet2-london-stansted-operations-expansion/

[Pain in the R's]

Interesting news from Jet2. Maybe it only me that is planning to cut back on foreign escapes next year due to rising bills and dwindling end of the month spare cash. I plan to cut back two trips abroad next year from Stansted that will cover the increases to my cost of living including a new mortgage rate yet I consider myself to be a middle income family.

Is it all about market share or does Jet2 really think they can grow the market out of Stansted, as they believe everyone actually has more disposable income on not less?

[AirportPlanner1]

Perhaps the type of travel? Banking on people keeping the week on the sunbed but losing the weekend in Lisbon. I’d be the opposite but if what I liked was popular it would be I’m a Celebrity on at BBC4 at 11pm on a Tuesday and a Scandi political drama every night at 9 on ITV and across all the tabloids

[daz211]

Interesting news from Jet2. Maybe it only me that is planning to cut back on foreign escapes next year due to rising bills and dwindling end of the month spare cash. I plan to cut back two trips abroad next year from Stansted that will cover the increases to my cost of living including a new mortgage rate yet I consider myself to be a middle income family.

Is it all about market share or does Jet2 really think they can grow the market out of Stansted, as they believe everyone actually has more disposable income on not less?

Many people cutting back during hard times will always find money for a week in the sun and especially the smokers who can get a free holiday by buying all their cigarettes abroad.

[ImPlaneCrazy]

Any idea what the Wamos A330 was doing this morning, operating out to MCO?

[ATNotts]

Many people cutting back during hard times will always find money for a week in the sun and especially the smokers who can get a free holiday by buying all their cigarettes abroad.
​​​​​​Except of course that since the end of January 2020 that is no longer legally possible - can't for life of me remember why!!

[daz211]

​​​​​​Except of course that since the end of January 2020 that is no longer legally possible - can't for life of me remember why!!
like I say people will always find a way.

[AirportPlanner1]

​​​​​​Except of course that since the end of January 2020 that is no longer legally possible - can't for life of me remember why!!

Its because of the war in Ukraine, backlog from Covid and global issues

[ATNotts]

Its because of the war in Ukraine, backlog from Covid and global issues
I believe you may have inadvertently overlooked the principal issue!!!!

[Droidd]

Any idea what the Wamos A330 was doing this morning, operating out to MCO?
Make a Wish Charter to Disney World

[pabely]

Boeing Max-10 being showed to whom today?

[STN406]

Boeing Max-10 being showed to whom today?

Flying under Boeing numbers. It’s in full Boeing house colours. Going to be at Stansted for a few days to do aircraft testing.

[pabely]

Flying under Boeing numbers. It’s in full Boeing house colours. Going to be at Stansted for a few days to do aircraft testing.
Nothing to do with an existing Boeing customer who is STN biggest customer and will need to start looking at replacements soon!

[STN406]

Nothing to do with an existing Boeing customer who is STN biggest customer and will need to start looking at replacements soon!

Not parking at the Ryanair hanger. Using Northside stands.

[commit aviation]

Runway closed for snow clearing at the moment

[AirportPlanner1]

Runway closed for snow clearing at the moment

Can’t see much going on tonight as it’s still bucketing it down, and likely it’ll also be misery tomorrow morning because most of the FR based fleet appears to be down route or in the Midlands.

[TBSC]

Stansted-Oradea will cease at the end of March as Ryanair is going to abandon four Romanian airports (Timisoara, Oradea, Sibiu and Suceava). Apparently these airports refused to pay more money to FR.

[pabely]

Stansted-Oradea will cease at the end of March as Ryanair is going to abandon four Romanian airports (Timisoara, Oradea, Sibiu and Suceava). Apparently these airports refused to pay more money to FR.
I think Oradea is the only one Wizzair doesn't serve from Luton, wouldn't be surprised if increases occur to existing route frequencies if they can find the slots.

[davidjohnson6]

I think Oradea is the only one Wizzair doesn't serve from Luton, wouldn't be surprised if increases occur to existing route frequencies if they can find the slots.
Do Wizz really need to increase frequencies on nearby routes given FR dropping STN-OMR ? With a near-monopoly on flights between London and the Hungary-Romania border region, wouldn't Wizz want to try to raise yields instead ? The only competition is on London-Cluj where FR fly 4x weekly in S23 while Wizz are 17x weekly. I can't see Easyjet, Tarom or many other airlines being interested in flying between London and this region

[pabely]

As I said finding slots st Luton would be an issue, with Blue Air gone then upscaling to 321s is probably the best which will happen.

[AirportPlanner1]

There appears to be a run of mainline TK to IST the last couple and next few days, also Tunisair have returned and there is a Wideroe today. Is this stuff that is being turned away from LHR?

[G-APDK]

I believe the extra THY flights are to meet holiday demand and not related to LHR

[STN406]

There appears to be a run of mainline TK to IST the last couple and next few days, also Tunisair have returned and there is a Wideroe today. Is this stuff that is being turned away from LHR?

Often over the Christmas period there are extra flights added. Pegasus and AnadoluJet/Turkish always add extra capacity and flights. Pegasus have been operating an extra flight on the A21N for around a week. Difference this time is Turkish have added flights in their own metal and to IST and not SAW.

Not surprised Tunis have added a few. Believe they have struggled to all their previous slots back at LHR. But are still operating in to LHR currently same as Widroe which I’d guess can’t get some additional slots at LHR. In the past often been charters from Scandinavia bring people in on Christmas shopping trips in London.

[_aax1]

Am I the only one who struggles to understand MAG’s business model for Stansted?

I had the unfortunate experiance of flying out of here a couple of weeks ago for the first since Covid and I was shocked at the state of the place and how down hill it’s become, coupled with staffing, it’s clear the place is mismanaged and an embarrassing entry point to the UK (if there are MAG terminal leadership reading this, can you replace screaming staff with appropriate, clear easy to read signage at the UK border entrances).

I see they’ve released a press release regarding how passenger numbers are near pre-pandemic levels but this is driven solely by Ryanair. Is their long term plan is to have no investment and just hope of continued FR expansion? This lack of diversification is surely a risk?

I cannot see any airline wanting to come here, even if it makes sense financially, the place is an awful run-down passenger experience and with most European low-cost airlines established at LGW/LTN. Who are STN targeting? Full service? Long haul? I just can’t see how this compatible with the current state of the place.

[AirportPlanner1]

I’ve flown out of STN a few times this year across different days and times and have been very impressed. Perhaps my expectations are set too low, but had worse at other London airports in that time and certainly not had any of the well documented troubles seen at other airports. Had one arrival which could have been better back in March, but my fears for the summer from that experience thankfully didn’t come to pass.

[UnderASouthernSky]

I see they’ve released a press release regarding how passenger numbers are near pre-pandemic levels but this is driven solely by Ryanair. Is their long term plan is to have no investment and just hope of continued FR expansion? This lack of diversification is surely a risk? I cannot see any airline wanting to come here, even if it makes sense financially, the place is an awful run-down passenger experience and with most European low-cost airlines established at LGW/LTN. Who are STN targeting? Full service? Long haul? I just can’t see how this compatible with the current state of the place.
Pretty sure there is/was a plan to build a second "terminal" structure to separate departures and arrivals to help accommodate forecast (& permitted) growth. As for a strategy, I got the impression that along with FR & LS it was the strategy to pick up some lo-co and full service airlines that were struggling to pick up LGW & LHR slots or wanted to spread their offering north of the Thames. I don't think STN wanted to put all their eggs in the FR (or lo-co) basket, no matter if those areas are often the quickest to rebound after an enforced dip.

[pabely]

I see Emirates are going double daily at BHX with an additional A380 complementing the 777, nothing seen about STN, is demand not as good from Essex with x6 A380 LHR and x3 LGW, an obvious flight number gap at LGW as well in EK14?
Not having a dig, perhaps yields are good at STN so no need to add just yet.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

BHX was double daily for years, as travel normalises it's not a suprise the more mature markets get back up to speed first.

[commit aviation]

Runway resurfacing starts tonight:

Runway to be fully resurfaced (stanstedairport.com) (https://mediacentre.stanstedairport.com/take-off-for-runway-resurfacing/)

[BIZZYBOY]

Fayair has been purchased by Harrods. Nearly 10 years since its hangar doors were opened.

[pabely]

Fayair has been purchased by Harrods. Nearly 10 years since its hangar doors were opened.
Down to 4 FBOs then, Harrods, Inflite, Universal & Diamond?

[dc9-32]

And which umbrella do London Jet Centre come under ?

[STN406]

And which umbrella do London Jet Centre come under ?

London Jet Centre operate from the Diamond Hanger.

[dc9-32]

London Jet Centre operate from the Diamond Hanger.

So there are 5 FBO's at STN. Bit overkill surely ??

[LTNman]

I didn’t think Stansted was a big player in the biz jet market. So is it?

[BIZZYBOY]

I didn’t think Stansted was a big player in the biz jet market. So is it?
A second maybe even third choice airport for most especially the small to mid jets. The larger jets (wide-bodied) will try LHR but always end up at STN.

There is lots of development on the Northside (non aviation related) and strangling all the current occupants so for HA to expand their footprint is good business.

[pabely]

Whenever I visit STN there are plenty of Biz around but looking at the spotter logs many have been there a while. Often Biz arrive at LTN then reposition out to STN if not in use due to space issues at LTN during busy times.
The Diamond Hangar is a strange one with some dubious Nigerian connections but alot of subcontractor maintenance work is done there.
Do Storm AirX have their own offices or is this leased as well?
Universal have a good worldwide respected network of FBOs and Harrods have deep pocket Qatar owners. Inflite maybe the weakest FBO now, I wonder how long they will last?

[terrain safe]

Inflite is pretty busy with many flights. Generally the busiest of them all overall. Stansted will get the big widebody stuff as there is nowhere else to go. Sometimes, like when Wimbledon is on, it seems to be neverending bizjet flights, but the northside will take some parking away. the plan is probably to get rid of all of the bizjet stuff in the end. but that is very very long-term.

[pabely]

Air India's new presence at LGW must be at a loss from STN?

[FRatSTN]

Air India's new presence at LGW must be at a loss from STN?
Indeed it's a big failure on MAG's part in my view. There's no meaningful business demand or interlining agreements here. Just high volume P2P long-haul from a VFR market mainly based in north London. STN should easily be able to win this kind of business.

[_aax1]

Indeed it's a big failure on MAG's part in my view. There's no meaningful business demand or interlining agreements here. Just high volume P2P long-haul from a VFR market mainly based in north London. STN should easily be able to win this kind of business.

The midlands market will drive past STN on the way to LGW. Stansted is lost in my view. What are they targeting? MAG need to have a rethink of strategy.

[pabely]

The midlands market will drive past STN on the way to LGW. Stansted is lost in my view. What are they targeting? MAG need to have a rethink of strategy.
Not sure they will drive past as there are plenty of options 'up norf'. What has happened to all these startups? Even Luton was linked with one at one point!
TATA obviously own Air India now, is there linked business south of the river?

[ATNotts]

The midlands market will drive past STN on the way to LGW. Stansted is lost in my view. What are they targeting? MAG need to have a rethink of strategy.
The Midlands market is served from BHX to both Delhi and Amritsar non stop.

What puzzles me is where the market is for ATQ from Gatwick, I would have thought that if AI was looking for a second London airport STN or LTN would have been closer to the Punjab VFR customer base.

[pabely]

The Midlands market is served from BHX to both Delhi and Amritsar non stop.

What puzzles me is where the market is for ATQ from Gatwick, I would have thought that if AI was looking for a second London airport STN or LTN would have been closer to the Punjab VFR customer base.
And as AI already had a presence at STN pre-covid, what went wrong?
I know is a way off yet but remember WZZ have 47 321XLRs coming which makes London to India possible. They have stated no interest West to US currently so South & East must be in their long term plans.

[AirportPlanner1]

The Midlands market is served from BHX to both Delhi and Amritsar non stop.

What puzzles me is where the market is for ATQ from Gatwick, I would have thought that if AI was looking for a second London airport STN or LTN would have been closer to the Punjab VFR customer base.

I agree with the above. I can see the attractiveness of Goa from LGW if they’re looking at its association and success with long-haul leisure but STN is surely a better fit for the rest of the operation. Especially with the Cambridge tech corridor on its doorstep.

[davidjohnson6]

Is Luton really viable for a flight to India taking maybe 9 hours, and a not-particularly-long runway ? And yes, with all the extra luggage (and weight) that flights between the UK and India seems to attract. Would you put business class pax through Luton, particularly if your flight is a mix of economy and premium class pax ? It's not the same as an business-class-only aircraft with just 100 seats all of whom are paying a premium fare. Since Tata took over, they will want to get rid of the cr*ppy perception that Air India has sometimes had in the past
If Air India is to open a base other than LHR... then LGW, STN, or growing BHX seem to me the strongest contenders.

Note - before this degenerates into a Luton v Stansted war and I'm accused of being anti-Luton.... I flew through Luton over 20 times in 2022

[SWBKCB]

Isn't Air India moving the lower revenue routes to LGW and using the slots at LHR for the premium heavy routes?