Gatwick-3

[Markushillman]

Probably heard it by seeing SeanM1997 on X, but of course people fail to give credit.

So credit to SeanM1997 on X

LX432 ZRH 1715-1800 LGW (Mon-Sat)

LX433 LGW 1845-2125 ZRH (Mon-Sat)

Mixture of Swiss A220, Air Baltic A220 and Helvetic EMB190

Also to the poster above its only direct on days 1-6, I'd suggest looking a bit further rather than being rude.

[Sotonsean]

Probably heard it by seeing SeanM1997 on X, but of course people fail to give credit.

So credit to SeanM1997 on X

LX432 ZRH 1715-1800 LGW (Mon-Sat)

LX433 LGW 1845-2125 ZRH (Mon-Sat)

The amount of work that SeanM1997 puts in I too find it difficult to understand why people fail to give him credit.

It's unreal how people read things and then say or type that they heard it. Voices in their head I think 🤔

Although I just looked at the SWISS website and it's showing flights bookable on days 1 to 7. That could well be a mistake though if SeanM has indicated the correct schedule.

[SWBKCB]

The sunday flight is indirect.

If Swiss (not Edelweiss) are prepared to fly to Gatwick instead of LHR/LCY outside the ski season, then it's effectively open season for all European carriers to do a land grab on whatever slots they can get at LGW.

If they are happy with off-peak slots, maybe.

[Sotonsean]

The sunday flight is indirect.

Thanks for that additional information.

[Travel24]

There’s way other ways to get information than Sean imo but keep thinking it was him. I got the information from this so yeah not Sean at all.

https://swiss.newsmarket.com/english

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The amount of work that SeanM1997 puts in I too find it difficult to understand why people fail to give him credit.
Does he just trawl booking engines all day for fun in the Alex Macheras role as an independent or does he work commercially? Genuine question.

[Sotonsean]

There’s way other ways to get information than Sean imo but keep thinking it was him. I got the information from this so yeah not Sean at all.

https://swiss.newsmarket.com/english

So you actually "read" it rather than "heard" it. Just as I assumed then.

[Travel24]

I have my own twitter account where I post all the information

[BA318]

There’s way other ways to get information than Sean imo but keep thinking it was him. I got the information from this so yeah not Sean at all.

https://swiss.newsmarket.com/english

There's currently nothing on that link about Gatwick. And if you did why would you write has anyone heard and not just provide a link...

[Travel24]

They put It on their twitter account and yes I share all the information I get on there lol

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

If Swiss (not Edelweiss) are prepared to fly to Gatwick instead of LHR/LCY outside the ski season, then it's effectively open season for all European carriers to do a land grab on whatever slots they can get at LGW. The short-haul market has effectively said NO (with a big booming shouty voice) to paying silly prices for LHR slots. I can't think of another airline in Europe that is more premium focussed
I always thought Eurowings was more of a LGW fit once Lufthansa stepped back. It's point to point stuff with no connectivity to the rest of STAR.

[toledoashley]

On Eurowings, you can connect to other LH airlines (although given their route network it’s usually onto another Eurowings service).

[Sotonsean]

I have my own twitter account where I post all the information

But you didn't post a link to it though 🤔

[JW95]

A very nice addition to Gatwick :) Swiss have an excellent reputation for being one of the best European airlines; can't wait to see their A220 at LGW soon.

In keeping in the spirit following a new airline/route launch at LGW, it's time for the question on everyone's minds: Who (realistically) will be next? ;)

[c52]

Swiss are long-time Gatwick visitors on winter weekends.

[Markushillman]

Credit as always to @SeanM1997 on X

Air China to Bejing Capital

1st June 2024

CA851 PEK 0230-0650 LGW (Daily)

CA852 LGW 1235-0515+1 PEK (Daily)

[JW95]

Credit as always to @SeanM1997 on X

Air China to Bejing Capital

1st June 2024

CA851 PEK 0230-0650 LGW (Daily)

CA852 LGW 1235-0515+1 PEK (Daily)

Just incredible :) I'm amazed how there have been multiple instances where myself and others in this thread have posed the question "who's next?" and hours later, we get great news like this! Extraordinary and great news for LGW. Hopefully more will come. I bet anyone that MAG at STN aren't happy with airlines flocking to LGW while they've been trying to diversity their airline offering.

[c52]

Not bookable at the moment.

[Markushillman]

Not bookable at the moment.

As per @SeanM1997 will be on sale imminently

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Air China have swapped PVG and PEK as their LGW ops since CTU got a LHR slot. Last summer saw PVG replace PEK from June but it seems PVG and PEK will run through the summer to LGW. The third PEK-LON was started at LGW then moved to LHR, they lost the slot post COVID so one for the LHR waiting room I suspect? Takes PEK-LON back to 3 x daily with a daily PVG at LGW and TFU at LHR.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/685x255/capture_b89867a0cbb693dea5fab24b6c9596c72b8bc90e.png

[Sotonsean]

Just incredible :) I'm amazed how there have been multiple instances where myself and others in this thread have posed the question "who's next?" and hours later, we get great news like this! Extraordinary and great news for LGW. Hopefully more will come. I bet anyone that MAG at STN aren't happy with airlines flocking to LGW while they've been trying to diversity their airline offering.

Great news indeed my good friend and everytime that there is good news I always think of you.

Well I had previously mentioned that Air China from Beijing was going to be the next announcement for LGW but I wasn't expecting it so soon after I had posted it.

We always appreciate good news LGW related and I'm sure we can both look forward to reading about the next airline announcements regarding London Gatwick.

Who's next?

[FlyGatwick]

A very nice addition to Gatwick :) Swiss have an excellent reputation for being one of the best European airlines; can't wait to see their A220 at LGW soon.

In keeping in the spirit following a new airline/route launch at LGW, it's time for the question on everyone's minds: Who (realistically) will be next? ;)

IMHO, a KLM / KLM Cityhopper LGW-AMS feeder would make an excellent fit for Gatwick if they can lay their hands on the four to five daily, commonly timed slot pairs - an extreme rarity at Gatwick these days - Aer Lingus are soon going to vacate. My second choice would be Air France (for an LGW-CDG feeder).

Hope Swiss can get another morning slot pair to make their new LGW-ZRH a proper feeder to maximise onward connections at ZRH, both outbound and inbound (which usually tend to be early morning arrivals for most European long-haul flight connections). Interestingly in this context, according to ACL's most recent interim slot report for LGW for summer 2024, Swiss had actually applied for two daily slot pairs to allow them to serve this route both in the morning and the evening. But they were not successful in getting any of the slots for which they had originally applied. So, I wonder where these slots came from. I think another airline that succeeded in getting the slots at Gatwick for which they had applied must have decided not to take them and to return them to the slot pool for reallocation to Swiss.

Will we see ITA Airways, who have actually been successful in getting the two daily slot pairs for which they had applied, launch LGW-FCO next?

[pabely]

IMHO, a KLM / KLM Cityhopper LGW-AMS feeder would make an excellent fit for Gatwick if they can lay their hands on the four to five daily, commonly timed slot pairs - an extreme rarity at Gatwick these days - Aer Lingus are soon going to vacate.
No spare slots at AMS so never going to happen.

[Sotonsean]

No spare slots at AMS so never going to happen.

Never going to happen with such "gusto."

But KLM, along with their fellow Sky Team members, have an extremely large slot portfolio at Amsterdam if indeed KLM ever wanted to resume their own AMS-LGW service.

I'm not saying that KLM would or would not resume their own AMS-LGW service but to use "Never going to happen" is like someone posting on this particular thread this time last year suggesting that Singapore Airlines could be a possible candidate for LGW. Well it happened to everyone's surprise.

At the end of the day, "Never going to happen" is a baseless comment. It reminds me of a friend of mine who in late February 2022 just before Russia illegally invaded Ukraine. He was adamant when he said to me, "Never going to happen. Well it happened, but I wasn't surprised.

And it would not surprise me at all if at some point in the future KLM did indeed resume their own AMS-LGW service. But in saying that I'm sure KLM would have better opportunities to use any slots made available to them at AMS rather than them resuming service to LGW.

[davidjohnson6]

The Dutch House of Representatives have just voted for Lelystad never to have commercial passenger airline flights. No, not legally binding, but any Govt minister going against this in the next few years will need to be brave and courageous.

That means all the O&D beach flights (including Transavia) are stuck at AMS. And no, RTM and EIN are not going to be expanding significantly any time soon. All this, along with the Dutch desire to reduce the number of flights at AMS is going to put strong pressure on KLM to maximise the value of each slot at AMS. Think how BA was acting with LHR slots 30 years ago.

There is also the issue of competitors Easyjet and BA Euroflyer having relatively low costs with A320 aircraft on LGW-AMS.

If KL starts LGW-AMS, it is unlikely to be with regular use of Embraer Cityhopper aircraft. It will need to be using aircraft with at least 150 seats to avoid red ink.

[pabely]

I'm sure once 321s start to arrive they will be put to use on LHR.
The way slots are at AMS, if they do get LGW slots, that will put pressure on the likes of SEN and other regional routes to make serious money or be gone!

[FlyGatwick]

Great news indeed my good friend and everytime that there is good news I always think of you.

Well I had previously mentioned that Air China from Beijing was going to be the next announcement for LGW but I wasn't expecting it so soon after I had posted it.

We always appreciate good news LGW related and I'm sure we can both look forward to reading about the next airline announcements regarding London Gatwick.

Who's next?

According to a piece posted about Air Algerie on Simple Flying earlier today, it seems the airline's management recently held a press conference (2023 results release) in which they confirmed their intention of launching new services to JFK and LGW, respectively.

Regarding LGW, they (AH management) said they want to launch daily flights from / to ALG with Boeing 737-800s, now slated to start on 31 March (the first day of the northern hemisphere 2024 summer timetable period). In this connection, Simple Flying quoted an oblique AH management statement at their recent 2023 results press conference that negotiations were still ongoing. I take that to mean negotiations with the UK government about amending the UK-Algeria bilateral ASA. So, we could be seeing AH serve LGW on a regular basis during summer 2024 after all (and, if it happens, probably beyond, as well).

Another thing I noticed recently is that for the last 10 days or so on the Gatwick live flight arrivals and departures page a daily Air Peace flight has been listed, with a 6:20 am scheduled arrival time (flight no. P4 7578) and a 9:25 am scheduled departure time (flight no. P4 7579). While the flight status currently shows as "cancelled" and "enquire airline", respectively, similar scheduled flight arrival and departure flight displays on the Gatwick website in the case of both China Southern and Air Mauritius - with the flight status always showing as "cancelled" / "enquire airline" ahead of the official launch confirmation / date have turned out to be correct (foreshadowing what was eventually going to happen). So, could we see Air Peace at Gatwick after all, despite that airline's supposed owner's bluster that launching a regular scheduled LOS-LON service would only happen if the airline is able to get slots at LHR? If it does happen - P4 coming to LGW, I hope it doesn't end like it always did in recent years when a Nigerian airline launched scheduled service to London: the airline going bust not long after the launch date, as was most recently the case when Arik Air, who b.t.w. had succeeded in getting LHR slots, was declared bankrupt (by a Nigerian court I believe), with Portuguese ACMI operator Hifly (from whom Arik had leased the A340-500 plying LOS-LHR on a daily year -round basis) reposessing their aircraft and suing Arik for non-paynent of the lease.

On a different (but somwhat related) note, I also believe that Air Peace and its controversial owner are also behind the opposition Ethiopian-backed Nigeria Air currently faces in gaining the relevant Nigerian authorities' required approvals to launch as Nigeria's new designated flag carrier.

[Travel24]

Taag also are also on Gatwick’s arrivals and departures board too, so maybe that’s to come finally too.

[Sotonsean]

Taag also are also on Gatwick’s arrivals and departures board too, so maybe that’s to come finally too.

TAAG Angola Airlines flights have been regularly appearing on the official London Gatwick arrivals and departures board since the 14 December 2023.

14 December 2023 was the date that was "supposed" to be the airlines first flight from Luanda. No flights have appeared at London Gatwick and none whatsoever have shown on flightradar. No direct flights are available to book on the TAAG Angola Airlines website. No announcement or anything regarding London Gatwick on the airlines website.

I'm keeping an open mind regarding TAAG Angola Airlines appearing at London Gatwick anytime in the near future, especially with their limited operations regarding long haul aircraft.

[Travel24]

I agree with you about keeping an open mind because I’m exactly the same just saying what I’m seeing.

You can disagree with me but Air peace announcement could happen anytime, very close imo. Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the next one to announce.

[Sotonsean]

I agree with you about keeping an open mind because I’m exactly the same just saying what I’m seeing.

You can disagree with me but Air peace announcement could happen anytime, very close imo. Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the next one to announce.

Your obviously not keeping upto date regarding Air Peace and Norse UK and London Gatwick.

I'm not going to spell it out for you as the recent information falls flat in your face regarding your Air Peace arguments and London Gatwick.

Ch-aviation.com has a very recent article that will put you in a better position to actually understand the situation. It's far from what you are suggesting. Enthusiasm is one thing but reality is a completely different story.

But then again you do have an X account where you share all of the information except for here on pprune. See post 5013.

[Travel24]

Air peace is done all they need is the slots and if they Norse are involved then 100 percent Gatwick will work with Air peace and ACL to get the slots they need because Gatwick love Norse.

I’ve literally been told this by people that work within Gatwick and if you refuse to believe it then that’s fine.

[Sotonsean]

Air peace is done all they need is the slots and if they Norse are involved then 100 percent Gatwick will work with Air peace and ACL to get the slots they need because Gatwick love Norse.

I’ve literally been told this by people that work within Gatwick and if you refuse to believe it then that’s fine.

Norse is not involved. Read the recent article on ch.aviation.com. Your getting carried away, overly enthusiastic.

"Gatwick love Norse", really!

What type of statement is that. Your enthusiasm is running on full speed. To be fair that's quite a ridiculous thing to type 🙄

[Travel24]

They do love Norse why did acl give them all the slots they requested this summer. Not exactly rocket science is it

[Sotonsean]

They do love Norse why did acl give them all the slots they requested this summer. Not exactly rocket science is it

ACL and London Gatwick Airport are two totally different entities.

London Gatwick Airport have no say when it comes to slot allocation. ACL are responsible for slot allocations.

As an incumbent airline at London Gatwick Airport Norse UK would more likely likely and inevitably be allocated any requested slots.

This has absolutely nothing to do with your ridiculous suggestion that London Gatwick "loves" Norse.

Why would London Gatwick love a particular airline?

Especially an airline that continously chops and changes their schedule on a regular basis.

I'm not sure of your age but to say something like Gatwick "loves" Norse is quite an immature thing to say. Even more so when you start a sentence with "they do love Norse".

"Not exactly rocket science is it". I'm lost with words with that comment.

[sewushr]

The TAAG and Air Peace flights appear in the Gatwick system because both have slots in the W23 season. As has been stated often before, the fact that an operator holds slots doesn't mean the flights will take place (Omni Blu being another recent example). Air Peace could indeed start at any time - there are no other legal steps to overcome, but as flights are still not for sale it seems unlikely that they will.

[SWBKCB]

As my earlier question didn't get a repsonse, what would the likes of Air Peace and TAAG add to the bottom line at Gatwick? If I was a handling agent I wouln't touch them with a barge pole. And it shows what position Norse are in if they are considering such a deal.

[JW95]

They do love Norse why did acl give them all the slots they requested this summer. Not exactly rocket science is it

As someone who frequently follows and participates in this thread, I always enjoy seeing both your posts as well as those from my friend, Sotonsean. As far as airline rumours and speculations are concerned at LGW, they are just that until/if any official announcements are made, although I do appreciate that there are members on this forum who work within LGW itself, so I'm sure they are likely to hear of anything in the pipeline before the majority do. In saying this, please lets continue to keep discussions on here civil- personal statements including 'its not exactly rocket science is it' aren't constructive, nor positive, and don't bode well in setting a positive tone for this thread- having positive, open discussions is what we should all be aiming for :) This is a great thread, let's keep it that way :)

As far as some of the rumours go, given the success LGW has had last year in bringing in new carriers to the airport, including names that we never thought would consider LGW (I'm thinking Singapore Airlines as a key example), nothing would surprise me anymore in terms of announcements this year, which may of course feature some of those airlines that have already been discussed and rumoured in this thread. I'm not saying that all will, but I'd vouch that at least some will feature. The situation at LHR RE. slot limitations and the never ending debate of the third runway is unlikely to change in the mid-long term future, which is why we are now seeing many carriers beginning to take a fresh look at LGW as an alternative to LHR. So I've no doubt whatsoever that LGW is set for another exciting year, and that we will continue to see further announcements over the coming year.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I suspect the pricing regime at LHR is also driving traffic to LGW, you can't even fly an A321 CEO out of LHR economically anymore due to the new pricing regime, but somehow A319s are fine, (same engines!)
This thread's been hijacked by a schoolboy with a Galley FM connection, and we all know that staff gossip is wildly entertaining and just as wrong most of the time.

[davidjohnson6]

SkyAlps to fly Gatwick-Bolzano 2x weekly from 17 April
https://italiavola.com/2024/02/06/skyalps-atterrera-a-londra-gatwick-da-meta-aprile/

[Sotonsean]

Air China are to remain flying daily between Shanghai PVG and London Gatwick.

From the 01 May 2024 to the 26 October 2024 Air China will replace the current A330-200 on Shanghai PVG to London Gatwick with a A350-900.

It was originally expected that Air China would reduce Shanghai PVG from daily to four weekly.

Air China will resume daily Beijing DAX to London Gatwick on the 01 June 2023 flying daily with an A330-300

China Eastern from the 01 March 2024 will replace the A333-200 on their daily Shanghai PVG to London Gatwick route with a Boeing 777-300ER.

Credit to aeroroutes.com

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Air China is Beijing Capital PEK/ZBAA I think?

[Travel24]

ITA airways now have Gatwick to Rome flights bookable from 1st of June 2024.

[JW95]

ITA airways now have Gatwick to Rome flights bookable from 1st of June 2024.
Gosh, wow, wasn't expecting this. A lot of competition with EZY, Wizz and VY also serving LGW-FCO. BA also used to fly to Rome from LGW for many years up until Covid hit.

[davidjohnson6]

ITA seem to be closing their Heathrow - Rome FCO route on 30 March 2024. From 31 March 2024, their website shows nothing available on LHR-FCO. Opening a Gatwick - Rome FCO route might be related

[JW95]

ITA seem to be closing their Heathrow - Rome FCO route on 30 March 2024. From 31 March 2024, their website shows nothing available on LHR-FCO. Opening a Gatwick - Rome FCO route might be related
Interesting, wonder why they're closing LHR? Also, if the LHR route closes at the end of March, I wonder why LGW isn't starting until 3 months afterwards? I've just checked their website and LGW-FCO seems to be running just once daily. At this rate, I predict they will struggle against the multiple daily frequencies flown by EZY, Wizz and VY.

[davidjohnson6]

ITA are adding flights at LCY from 31 March 2024. The flights from 1 June are probably related to the large number of people who go to Italy for leisure over the summer.
Have a Google about ITA, Heathrow slots and the name of a large airline based in the UAE that was heavily involved with Alitalia, the precursor of ITA

[Travel24]

I don’t fully know if all the flights are on the system yet. They don’t even have Gatwick on the search bar yet. I think maybe they will be available after 31 march but we will see. They wanted double daily on the slots so we shall see.

[davidjohnson6]

I don’t fully know if all the flights are on the system yet. They don’t even have Gatwick on the search bar yet. I think maybe they will be available after 31 march but we will see. They wanted double daily on the slots so we shall see.
Use "London, (LON)" to search on the ITA website

[Travel24]

They are also confirmed on sky-scanner. Thanks for the information I found that earlier. The flights aren’t listed after some time in early October or late September so let’s hope they extend it to all year.

[FlyGatwick]

What will be the frequency of the new ITA Airways LGW-FCO service? The interim ACL NS 2024 LGW slot report listed them as having secured slots for 2 daily rotations.

What aircraft type[s] will they be using? A220s / 320s / 321s?

Anyway, the good news for LGW just seems to continue, which is a good thing.

If LGW-FCO comes at the expense of LHR-FCO as previously suggested in this thread, then what will happen to the slots ITA will vacate at LHR? Will they use them to increase their LHR-LIN frequency? Another question I've got in this connection is: Who owns ITA's LHR slots? Is it Etihad? (I seem to remember having read that Etihad had acquired ownership of ITA's predecessor Alitalia's LHR slots as collateral for the money they'd lent the now defunct former Italian flag carrier.

Reverting to the most asked question in relation to LGW, who's next, my prediction is:

MIAT Mongolian as the UK-Mongolia bilateral has just been renewed and MIAT has gone public with adding scheduled service to LON being on their horizon, likely to be helped by the fact that MIAT is currently in the process of becoming a oneworld affiliate or associate (can't remember what exactly their lowest level of airline membership is called) being sponsored by Cathay. While IMHO we're unlikely to it happen this year, MIAT could be making its LGW debut next year, hopefully with their new 787s.

Another interesting new airline to have at LGW would be the new, up-market Taiwanese long-haul FSC Starlux (reportedly founded by the same top management team who had founded highly acclaimed Eva Air decades ago). While this airline is at the moment focused on building up its presence in the US, according to an article featuring in Airways magazine fairly recently, the airline seems to be genuinely interested in establishing a footprint in Europe as well, with both LON and PAR likely to be among its initial batch of destinations. Given the slot situation at LHR, IMHO I believe there is a good chance of seeing this airline's A350A-900s at LGW, possibly from as early as 2025. If this were to happen, it would be another major coup for LGW (of the same importance as attracting Singapore Airlines to the airport and - hopefully - getting Cathay to resume its pre-Covid LGW-HKG service).

[Travel24]

People have laughed at my suggestions on here. I am training to be a pilot at the moment. Anyway Very interesting to here your predictions with miat and starlux.

i believe the next will be taag and air peace. Then maybe etihad or azul in Brazil. I also believe air Tanzania later this year.

having seen what’s been going on at Gatwick in the last year nothing at this stage is impossible.

also with ita I don’t think they actually had any Heathrow slots to start off with which is why they are having to find another London airport.

[davidjohnson6]

ITA are moving their Milan LIN - London route from LHR to LCY from the end of March 2024

[Sotonsean]

It's a shame to see ITA Airways leave London Heathrow. Although it's a completely different airline to it's predecessor. Alitalia the predecessor to ITA Airways once had a sizeable operation to London Heathrow from various Italian destinations. During the eighties and nineties London Heathrow would see numerous daily flights with Alitalia from Bologna, Milan Linate, Milan Malpensa, Pisa, Rome, Turin and Venice with a mixture of aircraft such as the Airbus A300, A319, A320, A321, Boeing 727, MD-83 and even the odd DC-10-30.

There was always a couple of aircraft from Alitalia at the former Terminal 2 gates during that period in time. I remember on one occasion when looking from the former Queens Building viewing area seeing five Alitalia aircraft at former Terminal 2 at the same time. During the late nineties the secondary Italian airports were transferred to London Gatwick leaving just the Milan and Rome flights remaining at London Heathrow. With those two final destinations set to cease, the long history of Alitalia will soon be over at London Heathrow.

[Markushillman]

As per SeanM1997 ITA hoped to gain slots for summer 2024 but weren't able to do so hence the move, so id suggest it is only temporary until they can regain slots at Heathrow in the future

[True Blue]

I had thought that with Lhr obviously now full that the comments re Lgw being the waiting room for Lhr slots would now come to an end. I was wrong.

Barring a major airline exiting Lhr, or collapsing or a new runway, where will all the slots appear from for all those in the waiting room at Lgw?

[davidjohnson6]

Barring a major airline exiting Lhr, or collapsing or a new runway, where will all the slots appear from for all those in the waiting room at Lgw?
Non-Oneworld airlines based in or near Europe who currently fly to Heathrow and which do not have a major hub with plenty of long-haul flights to feed. Some of these airlines (if they are not already in trouble) will admit to themselves how difficult it is to compete against the LCC onslaught or come to a stage where they urgently need to convert some family silver into cash and eventually sell their slots to carriers wanting to fly long-haul to LHR.
Aegean Airlines, Air Algerie, Air Serbia, Bulgaria Air, Croatia Airlines, Eurowings, KM Malta, Middle East Airlines, Tunisair - I'm looking at you

[True Blue]

The ITA flights only seem to operate 1st June to 30th Sept, once daily. They were awarded slots for 2 daily, so what happens to those slots? Returned or is there more services to be added?

[BA318]

Non-Oneworld airlines based in or near Europe who currently fly to Heathrow and which do not have a major hub with plenty of long-haul flights to feed. Some of these airlines (if they are not already in trouble) will admit to themselves how difficult it is to compete against the LCC onslaught or come to a stage where they urgently need to convert some family silver into cash and eventually sell their slots to carriers wanting to fly long-haul to LHR.
Aegean Airlines, Air Algerie, Air Serbia, Bulgaria Air, Croatia Airlines, Eurowings, KM Malta, Middle East Airlines, Tunisair - I'm looking at you

I’d remove Aegean from that list at least. They are a Star Alliance member and shift a lot of transfers at LHR to the US/Canada and beyond. Plus they make money so not in any immediate need to sell up.

I think the Maltese Gov wouldn’t let KM lose the slot at LHR. It’s always been protected by them.

Didn’t Air Algerie and Tunisair both lose some slots already for not keeping to schedule enough?

Eurowings stays within the LH group so it might be transferred to another if they need it more but I doubt it. They also bring transfer traffic to other Star Alliance carriers.

With the SAS partnership with AF/KL we could eventually see some rationalisation of slots within that group. KL flying E190s could easily end and send those pax via CPH instead.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I had thought that with Lhr obviously now full that the comments re Lgw being the waiting room for Lhr slots would now come to an end. I was wrong.

Barring a major airline exiting Lhr, or collapsing or a new runway, where will all the slots appear from for all those in the waiting room at Lgw?
There's always been slot churn at LHR, any long haul operator with a dual LHR/LGW operation will be keeping their eyes open for an opportunity to move more across to LHR. LHR was declared full and closed to new entrants in 1977 and re-opened in 1991. A lot of airlines have been and gone since then. It would seem TAROM and ITA will be next to leave, there are always new opportunities at the right price.

That said, LGW is back in a much better place.

[airhumberside]

I’d remove Aegean from that list at least. They are a Star Alliance member and shift a lot of transfers at LHR to the US/Canada and beyond. Plus they make money so not in any immediate need to sell up.
Aren't Aegean dropping LGW-ATH as well?

I think the Maltese Gov wouldn’t let KM lose the slot at LHR. It’s always been protected by them
Indeed. Malta MedAir seems to be have been established for the sole purpose of protecting the LHR (and LGW) slots. Separate their ownership away from Air Malta. Their future will have more to do with Maltese politics than economics I suspect

Eurowings stays within the LH group so it might be transferred to another if they need it more but I doubt it.
Could be a way for ITA to get back into LHR in the future, should the LH investment be approved

[JW95]

It's a shame to see ITA Airways leave London Heathrow. Although it's a completely different airline to it's predecessor. Alitalia the predecessor to ITA Airways once had a sizeable operation to London Heathrow from various Italian destinations. During the eighties and nineties London Heathrow would see numerous daily flights with Alitalia from Bologna, Milan Linate, Milan Malpensa, Pisa, Rome, Turin and Venice with a mixture of aircraft such as the Airbus A300, A319, A320, A321, Boeing 727, MD-83 and even the odd DC-10-30.

There was always a couple of aircraft from Alitalia at the former Terminal 2 gates during that period in time. I remember on one occasion when looking from the former Queens Building viewing area seeing five Alitalia aircraft at former Terminal 2 at the same time. During the late nineties the secondary Italian airports were transferred to London Gatwick leaving just the Milan and Rome flights remaining at London Heathrow. With those two final destinations set to cease, the long history of Alitalia will soon be over at London Heathrow.

Agreed. This is a sad loss for LHR, and indeed, the end of an era for ITA, who have, of course, had a long history serving Heathrow through their predecessor, Alitalia. Certainly did not see this one coming. Even if they intend to use LGW merely as an interim measure, I suspect that the slot situation at LHR is unlikely to change for some time, so I don't think they will be expecting ITA's return in the near future sadly. However, on the plus side, it is always welcome news hearing of a new carrier launch or return to London Gatwick, and I will certainly be looking forward to seeing ITA's livery at Gatwick soon. I wonder which terminal they will be using?

As for other carriers, who will be next and who else is likely to consider Gatwick operations? :) There was a bulletin posted on the Cathay Pacific forum on Flyertalk which confirmed that LHR is to be maintained at 5 daily from the summer, with CX239 and CX256 being reinstated. Travel24 previously mentioned that the airline is planning on returning to Gatwick later this year in October, and with the A350 now no longer serving London, hopefully they will be next to confirm LGW soon?

[Asturias56]

"VDuring the eighties and nineties London Heathrow would see numerous daily flights with Alitalia from Bologna, Milan Linate, Milan Malpensa, Pisa, Rome, Turin and Venice with a mixture of aircraft such as the Airbus A300, A319, A320, A321, Boeing 727, MD-83 and even the odd DC-10-30."

with tht fleet mix no wnder they never made a $

I can remember that you turned up - and your flight was ALWAYS 2 hours late departing - but that was OK because they just shoved you on the one about to leave (which was also 2 hours late)..................

[Sotonsean]

"VDuring the eighties and nineties London Heathrow would see numerous daily flights with Alitalia from Bologna, Milan Linate, Milan Malpensa, Pisa, Rome, Turin and Venice with a mixture of aircraft such as the Airbus A300, A319, A320, A321, Boeing 727, MD-83 and even the odd DC-10-30."

with tht fleet mix no wnder they never made a $

I can remember that you turned up - and your flight was ALWAYS 2 hours late departing - but that was OK because they just shoved you on the one about to leave (which was also 2 hours late)..................

Well at the end of the day at least you got to your destination. But during that period in time so many flights by several European airlines would often be running late at LHR. Lufthansa was always an exemption and SAS were very similar.

Incidentally the exact same fleet mix that Iberia were also using during the same period in the eighties and nineties.

Your story of delayed flights probably accounted for one of the reasons why there always seemed to be quite a few Alitalia aircraft at the gates of the former LHR Terminal 2 at the same time. But Alitalia did have quite a substantial schedule to LHR at that time.

[Asturias56]

"Well at the end of the day at least you got to your destination"

Exactly - tho it took a while to slip into the Italian way of doing business and not worry, it always worked out somehow in the end - it was a good prep for what lay ahead in Milan or Rome at the office

[LGS6753]

I don't think a new service to Tiblisi has been mentioned here yet. The carrier is Georgian start-up Air Iveria. Fleet and frequency details not yet known.

[davidjohnson6]

I don't think a new service to Tiblisi has been mentioned here yet. The carrier is Georgian start-up Air Iveria. Fleet and frequency details not yet known.
Perhaps if Air Iveria had a website, there might be more reason for interest. They don't even seem to have a "watch this space" single page website
Planning to start flights in less than 3 months on a route that will take 5 hours without any ability to take bookings is an unusual strategy

[LGS6753]

Perhaps if Air Iveria had a website, there might be more reason for interest. They don't even seem to have a "watch this space" single page website
Planning to start flights in less than 3 months on a route that will take 5 hours without any ability to take bookings is an unusual strategy
It's certainly a strange approach. I found the information in an article in the Telegraph's travel section but was unable to discover much more than I have written. They do apparently have Gatwick slots.

[Sotonsean]

It's certainly a strange approach. I found the information in an article in the Telegraph's travel section but was unable to discover much more than I have written. They do apparently have Gatwick slots.

CH-AVIATION.COM quoted this in an article on its site earlier this week. It's behind a pay wall, so I can't link it.

Air Iveria has also been showing on the London Gatwick Wikipedia page for the last few days.

I totally agree with what has been mentioned by others regarding this "strange" airline. It will be interesting to see what becomes of this.

[davidjohnson6]

The source on wikipedia for Air Iveria flying Gatwick - Tbilisi comes from avia.ge - an obscure travel agency based in Georgia. Avia.ge has a web page which states Air Iveria will fly the routes but the avia.ge is not currently selling flights on Air Iveria.
This source was added to wikipedia by an IP address (not a logged in person). The IP address has made only 8 edits, 2 of which referred to Air Iveria.

[Sotonsean]

The source on wikipedia for Air Iveria flying Gatwick - Tbilisi is from an obscure travel agency based in Georgia which states Air Iveria will fly the routes but the travel agency is not currently selling flights on Air Iveria. It was added to wikipedia by an IP address (not a logged in person). The IP address has made only 8 edits, 2 of which were referred to Air Iveria.

Thanks for that update. I had clicked and read the link on Wikipedia. But a strange approach to starting a new route by what is probably an "iffy" airline.

[Travel24]

Air peace have now added Gatwick starting 31st March using the 777-300

[ATNotts]

Air peace have now added Gatwick starting 31st March using the 777-300
And the source for that info was......

(I feel sure I know, but they deserve crediting).

As you probably know seanm1997 on Twitter is an exellent provider of reliable information and your posting looked remarkably similar. If it came directly from you I apologise for making an incorrect assumption.

[davidjohnson6]

SeanM published about Air Peace somewhere between 6 am and 7 am this morning. Travel24 published at 11:18 pm last night. It's not impossible that Travel24 got his/her info from another blogger... but deeply unfair to insinuate it came from SeanM when Travel24 published at least 7 hours in advance.

There seems to be something of a tendency to assume that only SeanM can look at airline websites, work out what's changing and post this info to an Internet site. Other people were doing this extensively before SeanM decided to do so and one should not assume that SeanM is the only person with ability to do so. Jim Liu at aeroroutes.com is just one of the better known examples. I can think of 20 other websites who publish openly on a regular basis and often pick up on route changes in Europe before SeanM. Many of these show good respect for other people coming up with info independently and are unlikely to complain openly when somebody else publishes info to the web.

[ATNotts]

No, you're right. I had a total abberation regarding the timeline and as you can see apologised!

[adfly]

Air India are also adding Bengaluru from 1st April - 5x weekly

AI177 BLR 1405-2005 LGW (Mon, Tue, Wed, Fri & Sun)
AI178 LGW 2135-1150+1 BLR (Mon, Tue, Wed, Fri & Sun)

Source: SeanM1997 on Twitter.

[Sotonsean]

London Gatwick Airport has successfully started 2024 with new airlines and route announcements, may this continue 👌

London Gatwick Airport long-haul or should I say intercontinental route network is expanding nicely and the airport now has more intercontinental destinations than pre COVID. Served by more intercontinental airlines than pre COVID.

So far for 2024 London Gatwick Airport will see service from the following intercontinental airlines and destinations. Quite an impressive list that doesn't even include destinations served by British Airways and Norse or even TUI.

Air China...Beijing, Shanghai
Air India...Ahmedabad, Amritsar, Bangaluru, Goa, Kochi
Air Iveria...Tbilisi
Air Mauritius...Port Louis
Air Peace...Lagos
Air Transat...Montréal, Québec, Toronto
Azerbaijan Airlines...Baku
China Eastern Airlines...Shanghai
China Southern Airlines...Guangzhou, Zhengzhou
Delta...New York JFK
Emirates...Dubai
Ethiopian Airlines...Addis Ababa
Jetblue...Boston, New York JFK
Qatar Airways...Doha
Saudia...Jeddah
Singapore Airlines...Singapore
TAAG Angola Airlines...Luanda?
Westjet...Halifax, St John's

26 world-wide destinations in 14 countries and served by upto 18 intercontinental airlines. It's been a very long time indeed since London Gatwick can claim that.

I've obviously omitted destinations and airlines from North Africa or Turkey.

[andymartin]

Expect the usual long delays at Gatwick this summer then with all these extra flights. Blamed by ATC on 'slot restrictions ' no doubt.

[SWBKCB]

Expect the usual long delays at Gatwick this summer then with all these extra flights. Blamed by ATC on 'slot restrictions ' no doubt.

How many runway slots would be required if they all operated?

[Sotonsean]

Its been finally announced and Nigerian carrier Air Peace will launch at the beginning of the IATA nothern summer season Lagos to London Gatwick.

Flights begin on the 31 March 2024. Air Peace will operate Lagos to London Gatwick five times weekly with a Boeing 777-200ER.

P47578 LOS 00.10 LGW 06.40 777 x17
P47479 LGW 11.10 LOS 17.40 777 x57

Credit...aeroroutes.com

Air Peace states that it's a credible airline serving the needs of Nigeria. If that is really the case then the Nigerian government should abandon its plans for a new national carrier and put Air Peace in that position instead. If that were the case a name change for the carrier would be more appropriate than the current one.

A name change to the likes of the original Nigerian Airways would make this airline more relevant. But Air Peace seems popular with the Nigerian population and this will be their target audience on Lagos to London Gatwick.

Air Peace will be the sixth Nigerian carrier to have operated a Lagos to London route over the last few decades with the others being,

Air Nigeria
Arik Air
Bellview Air
Nigerian Airways
Virgin Nigeria

[SWBKCB]

Med View also operated into Gatwick

[Sotonsean]

Med View also operated into Gatwick

I had completely forgotten about Med View Airlines.

Well, that will make Air Peace the seventh Nigerian carrier to have operated from Lagos to London.

With the history of the other six Nigerian carriers that previously operated Lagos to London I wonder where that eventually puts Air Peace. 🤔

[JW95]

Its been finally announced and Nigerian carrier Air Peace will launch at the beginning of the IATA nothern summer season Lagos to London Gatwick.

Flights begin on the 31 March 2024. Air Peace will operate Lagos to London Gatwick five times weekly with a Boeing 777-200ER.

P47578 LOS 00.10 LGW 06.40 777 x17
P47479 LGW 11.10 LOS 17.40 777 x57

Credit...aeroroutes.com

Air Peace states that it's a credible airline serving the needs of Nigeria. If that is really the case then the Nigerian government should abandon its plans for a new national carrier and put Air Peace in that position instead. If that were the case a name change for the carrier would be more appropriate than the current one.

A name change to the likes of the original Nigerian Airways would make this airline more relevant. But Air Peace seems popular with the Nigerian population and this will be their target audience on Lagos to London Gatwick.

Air Peace will be the sixth Nigerian carrier to have operated a Lagos to London route over the last few decades with the others being,

Air Nigeria
Arik Air
Bellview Air
Nigerian Airways
Virgin Nigeria

Once again, this is excellent news for London Gatwick, which is continuing to go from strength to strength- and I hope this momentum continues :) Indeed, it is wonderful to see the diversity of carriers that have been confirmed for LGW lately, and if I think back to 2019/early 2020, the airport is actually in a stronger position now than it was then. Yes, sure the airport has lost carriers during that time, such as Virgin Atlantic, who I remain doubtful will ever return to Gatwick, but new ones have come in, including carriers that were once thought of as a dream for Gatwick to be able to attract, such as Singapore Airlines :)

Travel24 - do you know who else is next to likely launch at LGW this year? You mentioned Cathay Pacific previously, do you know anything more of them making an announcement soon?

[SWBKCB]

Is the airport really stronger from having lost a based carrier such as Virgin? Clearly somebody like Singapore brings prestige, but how many pax/flights per week are being added.

I can see chucking an Air Peace B.777 size rock into the pond causing a few operational ripples

[Travel24]

JW95: it’s amazing what position Gatwick is in right now and like you said it’s crazy to think two years ago we would have all these carriers announcing flights. Getting bengalaru from Air India is massive for the airport as it’s more premium travellers.

im stunned myself what’s going on and so excited to see what’s in store in the next few months.

So with potential next airlines Vietnam airlines are in talks with Gatwick and same as Sri Lankan. Azul, air Tanzania I think will be later this year. With European airlines honestly could be anyone at this point.

but there are always surprises and shocks which I love like Air Mauritius last year was a massive shock so let’s see!

Also with your regards to Gatwick losing Virgin. Virgin Atlantic only offered holiday flights that British Airways and TUI do anyway, so yes at the time it was a big miss when they left, international carriers have definitely filled the void.

[JW95]

JW95: it’s amazing what position Gatwick is in right now and like you said it’s crazy to think two years ago we would have all these carriers announcing flights. Getting bengalaru from Air India is massive for the airport as it’s more premium travellers.

im stunned myself what’s going on and so excited to see what’s in store in the next few months.

So with potential next airlines Vietnam airlines are in talks with Gatwick and same as Sri Lankan. Azul, air Tanzania I think will be later this year. With European airlines honestly could be anyone at this point.

but there are always surprises and shocks which I love like Air Mauritius last year was a massive shock so let’s see!

Also with your regards to Gatwick losing Virgin. Virgin Atlantic only offered holiday flights that British Airways and TUI do anyway, so yes at the time it was a big miss when they left, international carriers have definitely filled the void.

I completely agree with you, and I honestly find it extraordinary with the number of carriers coming to LGW within quick succession of each other- considering that it was only 3 years ago that the airport was on its knees with the pandemic etc, and the loss of Norwegian long haul, London Gatwick has made a remarkable comeback :) It is a great airport for many of us, and it, and its people deserve the success.

Sounds interesting regarding future potential airlines this year- Vietnam Airlines in particular have been really struggling to secure the slots that they need at LHR, so I could see them returning to LGW, either alongside LHR, or more likely consolidating entirely at Gatwick.

I agree RE. VS. At the time (May 2020), I think that we were all in shock when they announced that they'd be closing their long-standing home base at LGW, and of course, this was a huge blow to LGW, despite the leisure base being significantly smaller than their second base at LHR. I think that, in the final few years of VS' time at Gatwick, the signs that they had lost interest and had no real desire or drive to compete against BA, TUI and Norwegian were there: Old, clapped-out 744s and second-hand A332s being based versus the newer A351s and A333s at LHR; routes, like LAS, being moved to LHR; no new routes being launched at LGW for years (with the exception of the planned VS/DL services to JFK and BOS prior Covid). As you say, many other carriers have since resumed or established services to LGW following VS' departure, so their absence is probably not so noticeable anymore, although I am sure LGW would welcome their return, however unlikely.

[True Blue]

Before Covid, I believe, Emirates had planned to go 4 daily and the 4th was on sale but never started, I think due to Covid. I know that they have increased capacity at Lhr, but how likely is it that EK move to 4 daily?
Qatar used to be 3 daily.
And what is Norse doing/planning?

[JW95]

Before Covid, I believe, Emirates had planned to go 4 daily and the 4th was on sale but never started, I think due to Covid. I know that they have increased capacity at Lhr, but how likely is it that EK move to 4 daily?
Qatar used to be 3 daily.
And what is Norse doing/planning?
I'd imagine that there is a reasonable chance of EK increasing LGW to 4 a day, but I reckon the additional rotation is more likely to be flown with the 77W, similar to the recently added LHR flight. STN is also being rumoured to go to 3 daily later this year. So they seem to be doing well in the London market :)

[True Blue]

With the start date for the Air Peace service about 6 weeks away, you do wonder how long it is going to take them to get the flights on sale. They have been loaded for a few days now, but no seats available yet. Why does it take so long?

[True Blue]

Air Peace now on sale seems to be 6 weekly.

Some of the flights are shown as operated by B777 and some by B787. So are they using Norse for some of the flights? Could Norse announce Lagos as a route?

[BA318]

Air Peace now on sale seems to be 6 weekly.

Some of the flights are shown as operated by B777 and some by B787. So are they using Norse for some of the flights? Could Norse announce Lagos as a route?

https://newsweb.oslobors.no/message/611817

Norse will operate it 4 times a week for two months at least.

[SWBKCB]

Chief Executive Officer of Air Peace, Dr Allen Onyema, on Sunday, said the choice of Southern Terminal, Gatwick Airport for the airline’s flight operations to London is because the United Kingdom, UK, refused to totally honour its bilateral aviation safety agreement, BASA, with Nigeria.

Speaking on The Morning Show, an Arise TV programme, Onyema said that when Air Peace applied for a terminal at Heathrow, UK’s primary airport, the airline was denied.

He said that although Gatwick was not his preferred choice, it has turned out to be even better than Heathrow due to the numerous options it provides for passengers.

His words: “The BASA we signed with the UK is this: You give me your primary airport, we give you ours. British Airways, Virgin Atlantic, both of them come into my country (Nigeria) using our primary airports – Lagos and Abuja. When we applied, they told us Heathrow was not available to us. They even suggested Stansted or Luton airports, which I found very insulting. They also suggested Gatwick, but I refused because I wanted to go to Heathrow, their primary airport.

“After some time, I saw that they wanted to frustrate us. So, I said let us go anywhere even if they wanted us to go to Scotland. We started to take Gatwick, which was not really our choice. In the long run, we saw some good in it. Most of our people are down the Southeastern part of London. At the same time, when you look at the traffic situation in Heathrow to the centre of London, it is very excruciating, but from Gatwick, they alloted the Southern Terminal to Air Peace. And when you get to the Southern Terminal, you get out of immigration, take your luggage and you get into the Gatwick express train within three minutes, which will take you to Victoria right into central London.

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2024/02/air-peace-london-route-why-we-accepted-gatwick-airport-allen-onyema/

[Sotonsean]

Air Peace have since revised their schedule for the airlines proposed route between Lagos and London Gatwick.

The schedule now involves 6 weekly flight's compared to the previously announced 5. Flight's are still intended to start on the 30 March 2024. Air Peace will be using a mix of Boeing 777-200ER and leased Norse Atlantic B789. Air Peace will be using London Gatwick’s South Terminal.

P47578 LOS 00.45 LGW 07.25 B777 7
P47578 LOS 23.59 LGW 06.45 B789 x567
P47578 LOS 23.59 LGW 06.45 B777 5

P47579 LGW 11.10 LOS 17.50 B789 x 567
P47479 LGW 11.10 LOS 17.40 B777 67

Credit to aeroroutes.com

There's a certain individual on Simplistic Flying who's posts are extremely annoying at the best of times. In his regular rants he's recently posted the following.

"I don't want Air Peace flying to the UK with aircraft parts falling on mine and my families home's".

He obviously cares a lot less about his friends home's. He lives in Manchester. How an Air Peace aircraft is going to affect him and his family based in Manchester when the aircraft will be flying upto 200 miles south is beyond me.

But in saying that I've always been rather skeptical about Air Peace and I know others on here share the same opinion.

[goldcrest]

BA launching Bangkok 3 weekly for Winter 2024.

[daz211]

BRITISH AIRWAYS.
Winter 2024, “October”.

British Airways to launch Gatwick to Bangkok flights.
3 x a week on Mon , Thu and Sat departing at 2100 arriving 1555 the following day.
Return flights Tue, Fri & Sun 2255 landing back into Gatwick 0530.

[JW95]

BRITISH AIRWAYS.
Winter 2024, “October”.

British Airways to launch Gatwick to Bangkok flights.
3 x a week on Mon , Thu and Sat departing at 2100 arriving 1555 the following day.
Return flights Tue, Fri & Sun 2255 landing back into Gatwick 0530.

At last! This has long been rumoured even before BKK was cut from LHR. A very nice addition to the BA network at LGW. The question is though, will this route remain at LGW for the long term, or will it shift back to LHR, similarly to what BA has done recently with Doha?

Also flight times are a lot better than those that were at LHR :) Congrats LGW!

[JW95]

LGW-BKK now bookable on BA :) Shame that they aren't reusing the old BA9/10 flight numbers, which of course have a certain place in history. Really hoping this route will do well and will remain at Gatwick- flight departure and arrival times are decent too :) IIRC, in the past, LGW has seen a variety of operators to BKK, including:

Scoot (until 2022)
Garuda Indonesia (until 2003)
Phuket Air (until 2004, banned from EU flying in 2005).

[ClearedToNowhere]

But in saying that I've always been rather skeptical about Air Peace and I know others on here share the same opinion.

I certainly hope Norse took some cash up front.

[pabely]

Not sure if this has been noted before but another airline coming to LGW - Uzbekistan Airways
Only once a week and in addition to their LHR shedules.
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/240309-hyns24lgw?fbclid=IwAR3ffk8IEp2hbQoxOAG7koW5Iv18rjmookDmg2pTQ 1NY8bJTP49Pj9hP7XI
Uzbekistan Airways as of Friday (08MAR24) filed expanded service to London, where the airline schedules Tashkent – London Gatwick service for Northern summer 2024 season. The A320neo will operate this route once a week from 07APR24.

HY203 TAS1055 – 1435LGW 32N 7
HY204 LGW1610 – 0300+1TAS 32N 7

[DaveReidUK]

Not sure if this has been noted before but another airline coming to LGW - Uzbekistan Airways
Only once a week and in addition to their LHR shedules.
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/240309-hyns24lgw?fbclid=IwAR3ffk8IEp2hbQoxOAG7koW5Iv18rjmookDmg2pTQ 1NY8bJTP49Pj9hP7XI
Uzbekistan Airways as of Friday (08MAR24) filed expanded service to London, where the airline schedules Tashkent – London Gatwick service for Northern summer 2024 season. The A320neo will operate this route once a week from 07APR24.

HY203 TAS1055 – 1435LGW 32N 7
HY204 LGW1610 – 0300+1TAS 32N 7

Same flight numbers as operated to/from LHR weekly last summer.

[SWBKCB]

Aeroroutes reporting that Air Algerie have dropped the proposed Algiers flts.

Air Algerie Removes London Gatwick NS24 Schedule Listing (https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/240309-ahns24lgw)

[vectisman]

Aeroroutes reporting that Air Algerie have dropped the proposed Algiers flts.

Air Algerie Removes London Gatwick NS24 Schedule Listing (https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/240309-ahns24lgw)
They always seemed vague about starting services in any case.

[nguba]

Good to see BA returning to BKK and expanding to Asia at Gatwick.

[Sotonsean]

Yet another airline announces service to London Gatwick.

Turkmenistan Airlines in the Northern summer 2024 season plans to add Ashgabat to London Gatwick which will replace existing service to London Heathrow. From 03 April 2023 this flight will flown on a weekly basis with a Boeing 777-200LR.

T5423 ASH 12.00 LGW 15.10 B77L 3
T5424 LGW 16.55 ASH 03.00* B77L 3

The airlines schedule on/after May 01 2024 currently lists Boeing 737-800.

Credit to aeroroutes.com

Excluding British Airways but for summer 2024 London Gatwick will see service from 23 "national carriers", including 10 intercontinental.

As far as London Gatwick is concerned the news only gets better. The airport has started 2024 in a fantastic way with new airlines and destinations added to the airports ever increasing portfolio.

This is to you JW95, who's next?

[Sotonsean]

Air India have cancelled their planned flight from Bangaluru to London Gatwick. The route was not open for reservations at the time.

Air India also announced the cancellation of Ho Chi Ming City, which was planned to start on the same day as London Gatwick.

This could, of course, be down to aircraft and pilot shortage.

With Bangaluru being such a large and important city in India, I'm sure that Air India will want to resume their own flights to London. Hopefully, at some point in the future, Air India will re-announce Bangaluru to London Gatwick.

[JW95]

Yet another airline announces service to London Gatwick.

Turkmenistan Airlines in the Northern summer 2024 season plans to add Ashgabat to London Gatwick which will replace existing service to London Heathrow. From 03 April 2023 this flight will flown on a weekly basis with a Boeing 777-200LR.

T5423 ASH 12.00 LGW 15.10 B77L 3
T5424 LGW 16.55 ASH 03.00* B77L 3

The airlines schedule on/after May 01 2024 currently lists Boeing 737-800.

Credit to aeroroutes.com

Excluding British Airways but for summer 2024 London Gatwick will see service from 23 "national carriers", including 10 intercontinental.

As far as London Gatwick is concerned the news only gets better. The airport has started 2024 in a fantastic way with new airlines and destinations added to the airports ever increasing portfolio.

This is to you JW95, who's next?

Excellent news once again :) LGW really is continuing to go from strength to strength- it is quite remarkable to look back at the Gatwick in the last few years of ownership under BAA during 2006-9 and see how far it has come on since BAA have left- and GIP's strategy really has paid off :) Thanks for thinking of me my friend, Sotonsean, always appreciated :)

In terms of who will be next- I genuinely think that with the likes of Singapore Airlines, Air Mauritius, ITA Airways having recently either joined, or soon to start LGW, I reckon that anyone - be it full service or LCC, could be next, so almost a "free for all" situation, especially with LGW being increasingly viewed as a strong alternative to LHR. In terms of the most likely airlines, I think the following will look into launching/relaunching LGW in the near future as either moving out of LHR entirely, expanding services beyond Heathrow or expanding to London:

Vietnam Airlines
Cathay Pacific
Korean Air
Qantas (depending on their project sunrise, they could decide to shift the existing LHR-SIN service to LGW given slot restrictions at LHR, making LHR non-stop only to Australia, giving travellers the one-stop option from LGW)
Thai Airways
SAS Airlines
Sri Lankan Airlines
Tarom
Etihad Airways
Middle East Airlines
Hong Kong Airlines (will very much depend on what CX decide to do with LGW in the long term, as they still have not returned to LGW since Feb 2020).

[FlyGatwick]

Air India have cancelled their planned flight from Bangaluru to London Gatwick. The route was not open for reservations at the time.

Air India also announced the cancellation of Ho Chi Ming City, which was planned to start on the same day as London Gatwick.

This could, of course, be down to aircraft and pilot shortage.

With Bangaluru being such a large and important city in India, I'm sure that Air India will want to resume their own flights to London. Hopefully, at some point in the future, Air India will re-announce Bangaluru to London Gatwick.

Agreed. This is most likely an aircraft availability and staffing issue, with this service likely to be reinstated later during the year (together with the cancelled Delhi - Ho Chi Minh City service which had been due to start on the same day as Bengaluru-Gatwick).

Having said that, another reason for the apparent postponement in the case of Gatwick - Bengaluru could be linked to the Tata group apparently being interested in taking over Sri Lankan Airlines according to some Indian media reports. For context, under the (most) recent IMF bailout for the Sri Lankan government, the SL government must privatise its (mostly) loss-making, heavily indebted state enterprises, with Sri Lankan Airlines top of the list. As a sweetener for interested parties, the SL government has apparently agreed to absorb the airlines half-a-billion US dollar debt, with the Tatas (so far) reportedly being the seriously interested bidder. I think what really attracts the Tatas to consider putting in a bid for Sri Lankan Airlines is its nine weekly slot pairs at Heathrow. If Tatas succeed in taking over the Lankan flag carrier debt-free, the ownership rights to the airlines highly prized Heathrow slots will pass to the Indian conglomerate. It then depends what they're going to do with these slots (comprised of a daily, commonly timed evening slot pair and two additional weekly, commonly timed late-morning / mid-day slot pairs). Unless the SL government makes it a condition of any successful bidder for their country's flag carrier to retain access to Heathrow (similar to what the Irish government negotiated with IAG as a precondition for taking over Aer Lingus) - and, in my opinion, given the much weaker negotiating hand of the SL government compared with its Irish counterpart back in the day as well as the fact tgat Sri Lankan Airlines is in far worse financial shape now than Aer Lingus was back then, the chances of this happening are rather remote, Tatas will most likely repurpose the newly acquired slots to expand Air India's footprint at Heathrow, either by fortifying their flagship airline's competitive position on both Heathrow-Delhi and Heathrow-Mumbai or by relaunching flights to Bengaluru and Hyderabad, the two main Indian IT hubs on the Deccan peninsula of southern India, with Sri Lankan's current Heathrow-Colombo flights most likely relegated to Gatwick (which, from a financial perspective, would represent the best use of the expanded Tata group airlines' slots at both Heathrow and Gatwick given that air traffic between the UK to the four afoementioned Indian cities is premium (predomina tly business) heavy whereas air traffic between the UK and SL is almost entirely leisure and VFR).

[FlyGatwick]

Excellent news once again :) LGW really is continuing to go from strength to strength- it is quite remarkable to look back at the Gatwick in the last few years of ownership under BAA during 2006-9 and see how far it has come on since BAA have left- and GIP's strategy really has paid off :) Thanks for thinking of me my friend, Sotonsean, always appreciated :)

In terms of who will be next- I genuinely think that with the likes of Singapore Airlines, Air Mauritius, ITA Airways having recently either joined, or soon to start LGW, I reckon that anyone - be it full service or LCC, could be next, so almost a "free for all" situation, especially with LGW being increasingly viewed as a strong alternative to LHR. In terms of the most likely airlines, I think the following will look into launching/relaunching LGW in the near future as either moving out of LHR entirely, expanding services beyond Heathrow or expanding to London:

Vietnam Airlines
Cathay Pacific
Korean Air
Qantas (depending on their project sunrise, they could decide to shift the existing LHR-SIN service to LGW given slot restrictions at LHR, making LHR non-stop only to Australia, giving travellers the one-stop option from LGW)
Thai Airways
SAS Airlines
Sri Lankan Airlines
Tarom
Etihad Airways
Middle East Airlines
Hong Kong Airlines (will very much depend on what CX decide to do with LGW in the long term, as they still have not returned to LGW since Feb 2020).

I mostly agree with what you say, except for: Korean Air.

Korean Air and (to a lesser extent), Middle East Airlines.

Given that Korean Air is in the process of absorbing Asiana, its main home-grown rival, I think it unlikely that the relevant com petition authorities in the various jurisdictions in which both Korean Air and Asiana operate (and dominate as far as South Korean airlines are concerned), will agree to an expanded Korean Air to increase its dominance even further by increasing its footprint, even if that means adding additional capacity in the London market at Gatwick rather than Heathrow. Far more likely in my opinion is that respective competition authorities will encourage a new (full-service) long-haul airline like Air Premia to enter the UK - South Korea market. However, in my opinion, specifically regarding kaunching new services from Gatwick, it is unlikely that any airline based in Northeast Asia (other than China) would want to do this until the Russia-Ukraine conflict has been settled one way or another and Russian air space has reopened to all airlines given that Gatwick routes generally attract fewer premium. passengers than their Heathrow counterparts, who would help the airlines cover the additional expense of flying more circuitous routes skirting Russian airspace. Once Russian airspace is open to all airlines again, we could even see the likes of Japan Airlines relaunching flights to Tokyo Narita and Osaka Kansai from Gatwick as JAL is currently using its Heathrow slots to fly to Tokyo Haneda only.

Re Middle East Airlines, I'm not sure whether expanding their footprint in London is a near-term priority for them, especially given their unsettled neighbourhood.

Additionally, re Sri Lankan Airlines coming to Gatwick, I think it depends on whether the Sri Lankan government will be can successful in privarising the airline - a condition imposed by the IMF as part of the country's most recent bailout, with India's Tata conglomerate (the owners of Indian flag carrier Air India) rumoured to be interested in bidding for Sri Lankan according to Indian.media reports. The alternative, i.e. the Sri Lankan government failing to find a buyer for their airline, is likely to result in the airline being grounded and shut down as it's losses and accumulated debt have become unsustainable.

My additions to your list are as flows:

Starlux, the new, reportedly highly acclaimed Taiwanese full-service airline run by the same people who set up EVA Airways ca. 30 years ago: Gatwick-Taipei (probably using A350-900s).

Jetstar (instead of Qantas) if the Qantas group decides to maintain a one-stop UK-Australia air link once the project sunrise non-stops between Heathrow and the Australian east coast have started (now relortedly pushed back to 2026), should the Qantas group decide that there won't e sufficient premuim traffic left to make a one-stop service viable. In that case, the aircraft equipment would be a high-density Jetstar 787-8 instesad of a oremium-heavy Qantas 787-9 and the intermediate stop would more likely be Bangkok rather than Singapore.

Air Malaysia: Gatwick - Kuala Lumpur (maybe).

South African Airways: Gatwick-Joburg and Gatwick - Cape Town (the airline's financial situation permitting).

If Thai decide to come to Gatwick, they could launch flights to both Bangkok and Phuket (winter seasonal), with 787-9s probably doing Bangkok and-8s going to Phuket.

Similar to Thai, Vietnam Airlines could consider flying winter seasonally to Da Nang (in addition to serving Ho Chi Minh City and Hanoi all-year round) should they decide to come to Gatwick.

Short-haul, I still would very much like to see an Air France - KLM group airline - preferably KLM - come to Gatwick if they could take over the slots to be vacated by Aer Lingus at the end of the month.

Could we perhaps see Aero Italia coming to Gatwick?

[FlyGatwick]

I mostly agree with what you say, except for: Korean Air.

Korean Air and (to a lesser extent), Middle East Airlines.

Given that Korean Air is in the process of absorbing Asiana, its main home-grown rival, I think it unlikely that the relevant com petition authorities in the various jurisdictions in which both Korean Air and Asiana operate (and dominate as far as South Korean airlines are concerned), will agree to an expanded Korean Air to increase its dominance even further by increasing its footprint, even if that means adding additional capacity in the London market at Gatwick rather than Heathrow. Far more likely in my opinion is that respective competition authorities will encourage a new (full-service) long-haul airline like Air Premia to enter the UK - South Korea market. However, in my opinion, specifically regarding kaunching new services from Gatwick, it is unlikely that any airline based in Northeast Asia (other than China) would want to do this until the Russia-Ukraine conflict has been settled one way or another and Russian air space has reopened to all airlines given that Gatwick routes generally attract fewer premium. passengers than their Heathrow counterparts, who would help the airlines cover the additional expense of flying more circuitous routes skirting Russian airspace. Once Russian airspace is open to all airlines again, we could even see the likes of Japan Airlines relaunching flights to Tokyo Narita and Osaka Kansai from Gatwick as JAL is currently using its Heathrow slots to fly to Tokyo Haneda only.

Re Middle East Airlines, I'm not sure whether expanding their footprint in London is a near-term priority for them, especially given their unsettled neighbourhood.

Additionally, re Sri Lankan Airlines coming to Gatwick, I think it depends on whether the Sri Lankan government will be can successful in privarising the airline - a condition imposed by the IMF as part of the country's most recent bailout, with India's Tata conglomerate (the owners of Indian flag carrier Air India) rumoured to be interested in bidding for Sri Lankan according to Indian.media reports. The alternative, i.e. the Sri Lankan government failing to find a buyer for their airline, is likely to result in the airline being grounded and shut down as it's losses and accumulated debt have become unsustainable.

My additions to your list are as flows:

Starlux, the new, reportedly highly acclaimed Taiwanese full-service airline run by the same people who set up EVA Airways ca. 30 years ago: Gatwick-Taipei (probably using A350-900s).

Jetstar (instead of Qantas) if the Qantas group decides to maintain a one-stop UK-Australia air link once the project sunrise non-stops between Heathrow and the Australian east coast have started (now relortedly pushed back to 2026), should the Qantas group decide that there won't e sufficient premuim traffic left to make a one-stop service viable. In that case, the aircraft equipment would be a high-density Jetstar 787-8 instesad of a oremium-heavy Qantas 787-9 and the intermediate stop would more likely be Bangkok rather than Singapore.

Air Malaysia: Gatwick - Kuala Lumpur (maybe).

South African Airways: Gatwick-Joburg and Gatwick - Cape Town (the airline's financial situation permitting).

If Thai decide to come to Gatwick, they could launch flights to both Bangkok and Phuket (winter seasonal), with 787-9s probably doing Bangkok and-8s going to Phuket.

Similar to Thai, Vietnam Airlines could consider flying winter seasonally to Da Nang (in addition to serving Ho Chi Minh City and Hanoi all-year round) should they decide to come to Gatwick.

Short-haul, I still would very much like to see an Air France - KLM group airline - preferably KLM - come to Gatwick if they could take over the slots to be vacated by Aer Lingus at the end of the month.

Could we perhaps see Aero Italia coming to Gatwick?

Vistara, as according to airline schedule analyst Sean Moulton, they seem to no longer have access to the five weekly slot pairs they're currently using at Heathrow to fly to / from Mumbai. They could potentially transfer this service to Gatwick, making use of the five weekly additional slot pairs ACL awarded sister airline Air India for this summer season, at least in the interim until Air India has decided whether they're going to reinstate their originally planned Gatwick-Bengaluru service.

[Charley B]

Does anyone know why Qatar airways diverted in on SFO -DOH today ?this is about the third time they have done this ..is it changing crew?

[FlyGatwick]

Vistara, as according to airline schedule analyst Sean Moulton, they seem to no longer have access to the five weekly slot pairs they're currently using at Heathrow to fly to / from Mumbai. They could potentially transfer this service to Gatwick, making use of the five weekly additional slot pairs ACL awarded sister airline Air India for this summer season, at least in the interim until Air India has decided whether they're going to reinstate their originally planned Gatwick-Bengaluru service.

Further to my previous comments in this regard, I believe another potential short-haul addition for LGW could be Brussels Airlines.

The reason I'm saying this is in connection with reports of them, their parent, the Lufthansa group and United Airlines (according to some reports Air Canada as well) conducting negotiations about turning Brussels Airlines' BRU base into a global hub for North America - Africa air travel given that an extensive Africa network is Brussels Airlines' USP for obvious historical reasons and that these routes don't appear to be profitable at the moment due to a lack of feeder traffic at BRU. Building up BRU into a hub specialising in Africa connections makes strategic sense for the Lufthansa group given its relative weakness in Africa, especially LH itself in this part of the world vis-à-vis competitors. Ditto for UA / AC given the scarcity of direct flights between North America and Africa. The relevant media reports also quoted the LH group CEO saying that there currently is insufficient short-haul feeder traffic at BRU for Brussels Airlines' African routes to be profitable all-year round, and that this is something that needed addressing as well. Given the extreme shortage of slots at LHR and that the prices these command are far in excess of the profitability additional frequencies on a short-haul feeder route like LHR-BRU can realistically be expected to generate, even under a best-case scenario, IMO this makes it likely that Brussels Airlines would be looking to expand their LON-BRU capacity at LGW if this is what they choose to do (probably in addition to expanding their footprint in the UK regions outside London) to feed additional passengers onto its long-haul flights to Africa at BRU. What IMO would favour Brussels Airlines' resumption of an LGW-BRU feeder route as well is that unlike AMS and CDG / ORY (as well as BCN, FCO and VCE), similar to FRA and ZRH, BRU is not a typical European tourist magnet to attract high-frequency competition from LCCs / ULCCs like easyJet, Ryanair and Wizz.

[laviation]

The same SN that have massively cut back on UK ops in the past few years? ;)

[SWBKCB]

The Belgian Govt imposed additonal taxes on short haul flights, with LGW definitely within the specificied range. Train is probably quicker/more convenient.

Short-haul, I still would very much like to see an Air France - KLM group airline - preferably KLM - come to Gatwick if they could take over the slots to be vacated by Aer Lingus at the end of the month.

Why would IAG hand over slots to a competitor when they are looking to expand their own operation?

[vectisman]

At the moment Gatwick to Amsterdam by BA Euroflyer is not available after the end of the 2024 summer season. It may have been dropped.
It is 3 daily for most of the summer 2024. It has been a BUA/BCAL/BA route from Gatwick for 60 plus years. A surprise if it is to be discontinued.

[JW95]

I mostly agree with what you say, except for: Korean Air.

Korean Air and (to a lesser extent), Middle East Airlines.

Given that Korean Air is in the process of absorbing Asiana, its main home-grown rival, I think it unlikely that the relevant com petition authorities in the various jurisdictions in which both Korean Air and Asiana operate (and dominate as far as South Korean airlines are concerned), will agree to an expanded Korean Air to increase its dominance even further by increasing its footprint, even if that means adding additional capacity in the London market at Gatwick rather than Heathrow. Far more likely in my opinion is that respective competition authorities will encourage a new (full-service) long-haul airline like Air Premia to enter the UK - South Korea market. However, in my opinion, specifically regarding kaunching new services from Gatwick, it is unlikely that any airline based in Northeast Asia (other than China) would want to do this until the Russia-Ukraine conflict has been settled one way or another and Russian air space has reopened to all airlines given that Gatwick routes generally attract fewer premium. passengers than their Heathrow counterparts, who would help the airlines cover the additional expense of flying more circuitous routes skirting Russian airspace. Once Russian airspace is open to all airlines again, we could even see the likes of Japan Airlines relaunching flights to Tokyo Narita and Osaka Kansai from Gatwick as JAL is currently using its Heathrow slots to fly to Tokyo Haneda only.

Re Middle East Airlines, I'm not sure whether expanding their footprint in London is a near-term priority for them, especially given their unsettled neighbourhood.

Additionally, re Sri Lankan Airlines coming to Gatwick, I think it depends on whether the Sri Lankan government will be can successful in privarising the airline - a condition imposed by the IMF as part of the country's most recent bailout, with India's Tata conglomerate (the owners of Indian flag carrier Air India) rumoured to be interested in bidding for Sri Lankan according to Indian.media reports. The alternative, i.e. the Sri Lankan government failing to find a buyer for their airline, is likely to result in the airline being grounded and shut down as it's losses and accumulated debt have become unsustainable.

My additions to your list are as flows:

Starlux, the new, reportedly highly acclaimed Taiwanese full-service airline run by the same people who set up EVA Airways ca. 30 years ago: Gatwick-Taipei (probably using A350-900s).

Jetstar (instead of Qantas) if the Qantas group decides to maintain a one-stop UK-Australia air link once the project sunrise non-stops between Heathrow and the Australian east coast have started (now relortedly pushed back to 2026), should the Qantas group decide that there won't e sufficient premuim traffic left to make a one-stop service viable. In that case, the aircraft equipment would be a high-density Jetstar 787-8 instesad of a oremium-heavy Qantas 787-9 and the intermediate stop would more likely be Bangkok rather than Singapore.

Air Malaysia: Gatwick - Kuala Lumpur (maybe).

South African Airways: Gatwick-Joburg and Gatwick - Cape Town (the airline's financial situation permitting).

If Thai decide to come to Gatwick, they could launch flights to both Bangkok and Phuket (winter seasonal), with 787-9s probably doing Bangkok and-8s going to Phuket.

Similar to Thai, Vietnam Airlines could consider flying winter seasonally to Da Nang (in addition to serving Ho Chi Minh City and Hanoi all-year round) should they decide to come to Gatwick.

Short-haul, I still would very much like to see an Air France - KLM group airline - preferably KLM - come to Gatwick if they could take over the slots to be vacated by Aer Lingus at the end of the month.

Could we perhaps see Aero Italia coming to Gatwick?I agree with you. Given the instability in the middle east and Lebanon at the moment, I don’t see MEA in a position to expand their London operations, especially with other airlines, including BA and FR having left Beirut entirely in recent years. Rather, my argument was that could we see MEA doing what ITA Airways and Air Mauritius have done, and leave LHR for LGW on the grounds of costs? Same also goes for Sri Lankan Airlines- selling valuable LHR slots for urgent capital whilst still continuing to serve London via Gatwick may be something they are considering. LGW of today is an entirely different airport to the one it was when BAA owned it, and GIP have done incredibly well to attract and retain such a wide variety of airlines, both short and long haul- look at SQ for example. It is increasingly being looked to by airlines as a serious alternative to LHR, especially as the future of the third runway is still very much in the clouds and hasn’t progressed in recent years. I believe that airlines are increasingly realising that there is a stronger likelihood of the second runway at LGW opening before LHR’s third, and I expect to see the trend of new airlines announcing LGW operations continue. Regarding some of the others you’ve flagged up as potential entrants:

StarLux- I agree, I can see them announcing LGW soon. Given the lack of slot availability at LHR, LGW would be a great opportunity for them to enter into the London market, whilst providing additional capacity into TPE (CI currently only serves LHR-TPE 5 times per week).

JetStar- I’m unsure of this. SQ tried something similar through Scoot 2 years ago when they flew LGW-SIN via BKK. That didn’t last long, and SQ have now chosen to (re)open Gatwick by launching their own direct flights to SIN. Sadly history has shown that low-cost, long-haul is tough to make a success of (e.g. Norwegian, Air Asia X). IF QF do decide that there is viability to retain the longstanding one-stop flight to Australia via SIN, they will naturally first look to see if this can be accommodated alongside the other non-stop ‘Project Sunrise’ flights at LHR. If this isn’t possible for slot reasons, then I believe they would then look at LGW with the 789, but again, there would have to be significant demand and financial grounds for them to do this. They may of course just decide to drop LON-SIN entirely in favour of non-stop flights only.

Malaysia Airlines- An interesting one, out of curiosity, what makes you think MH would look to launch at Gatwick? They currently fly LHR-KUL twice per day with the A359, which represents a significant capacity decrease on the route versus the 744s and A380s that used to fly to London. Given this, they may look to accommodate any additional (spillover) demand at LGW given the slot situation at LHR, perhaps at a reduced frequency with the A359.

South African Airways- I agree, I could see SA serving LGW on the grounds of cheaper costs versus Heathrow, given the airline’s current financial situation.

Thai Airways- Similar to MH. Their capacity at LHR today is far less with the two daily 77Ws serving LHR-BKK compared to the 744s and A380s that have both since been retired. I recall reading somewhere, not long after they introduced the A380 to Europe before LHR that the CEO at the time had a preference of increasing frequency on LHR-BKK over introducing the A380 on the route, mentioning that he would have preferred to have seen 3 daily 744s flying to BKK from Heathrow. If frequency increase is still what Thai want, then I could see them at LGW at some point with the 789. They may of course decide to launch LGW in response to BA reintroducing BKK (which will also be from Gatwick for the first time).

Japan Airlines- would be a nice addition to Gatwick if they're looking to increase capacity to London. I agree- I think they would likely serve LGW-NRT (with HND being maintained at LHR), in addition to LGW-KIX (Osaka).

As regards European feeder carriers at Gatwick, I do see LH strengthening their existing LGW-FRA service in the near future, as well as potentially adding Munich, which also serves as an important hub for Lufthansa. With Air France-KLM, difficult to say. I reckon the slot situation at AMS will hinder KL’s growth. If anything, I think KLM will prioritise capacity growth on existing routes over opening up new routes, including Gatwick. I’d imagine Air France would be the same, although I am not sure if CDG has a similar slot situation that AMS currently has. Regarding Aero Italia, I don’t think so, especially with ITA Airways soon arriving. I think they would be more likely to go to STN if they wanted to open their own service to London.

[vectisman]

Don't get carried away!
Looking realistically at your list, perhaps Cathay may resume services this winter or next summer. All the rest I think are a no.

[TCU]

A deal, led by the SA Govt, to re-finance SAA through a private investor, collapsed last week. SAA can safely be struck from the LGW aspiration list.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Spectator's Balcony is a better place for many of these, they're personal wishlists and don't really add anything to the conversation. Have you guys seen the loads on LGW-FRA? They're dire from what I've seen. Aer Lingus have just canned DUB and BA dropping AMS looks like IAG focussing more on LGW as a differentiator rather than complimenting LHR short haul. KLM are fat for LHR slots so would be unlikely IMHO. I sometimes wonder if even LHR-CDG adds much for Air France nowadays, it's gone all A220 of late so it would be masochistic of AF to undermine that further by opening LGW. They don't even offer LCY anymore either.

Btw is Singapore going North or South?

[EI-BUD]

Aer Lingus have just canned DUB and BA dropping AMS looks like IAG focussing more on LGW as a differentiator rather than complimenting LHR short haul. KLM are fat for LHR slots so would be unlikely IMHO. I sometimes wonder if even LHR-CDG adds much for Air France nowadays, it's gone all A220 of late so it would be masochistic of AF to undermine that further by opening LGW. They don't even offer LCY anymore either.

Btw is Singapore going North or South?

I really doubt BA will drop AMS/LGW. Unlikely they'll surrender scarce AMS slots, granted they could transfer to other partners. They seem to have balanced the cost equation with easyJet and as such I'm not sure we'll see them leave such a popular route to easyJet. Still lots of time to schedule that, very little winter bookings would be taking place at this early stage, some not much.

Re earlier comments in the thread about EI slots at LGW, it's my understanding that the final decision about LGW was made at reasonably short notice and BA wasn't ready for it and there were no immediate uses for the slots by BA/VY. Likely gives rise to the range of new services being added at LGW by new customers to LGW. Well done LGW on attracting such new business.

I understand the rules on slot usage are being fully restored from start of S24 and EI will hence need to use all of its LHR slots daily. This is why they made the decision to concentrate their business at LHR as their London airport.

[willy wombat]

At the moment Gatwick to Amsterdam by BA Euroflyer is not available after the end of the 2024 summer season. It may have been dropped.
It is 3 daily for most of the summer 2024. It has been a BUA/BCAL/BA route from Gatwick for 60 plus years. A surprise if it is to be discontinued.

Not entirely correct. There was quite a long period 80s/90s when the only operator LGWAMS was Transavia. Cityflyer Express started on the route late 1990s (as BA Express). It was one of CityFlyer’s most profitable routes.

[JW95]

Spectator's Balcony is a better place for many of these, they're personal wishlists and don't really add anything to the conversation. Have you guys seen the loads on LGW-FRA? They're dire from what I've seen. Aer Lingus have just canned DUB and BA dropping AMS looks like IAG focussing more on LGW as a differentiator rather than complimenting LHR short haul. KLM are fat for LHR slots so would be unlikely IMHO. I sometimes wonder if even LHR-CDG adds much for Air France nowadays, it's gone all A220 of late so it would be masochistic of AF to undermine that further by opening LGW. They don't even offer LCY anymore either.

Btw is Singapore going North or South?

SQ will be using the North Terminal :)

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I understand the rules on slot usage are being fully restored from start of S24 and EI will hence need to use all of its LHR slots daily. This is why they made the decision to concentrate their business at LHR as their London airport.
They could still lease spare LHR slots out to anyone on the long list of those wanting in and still hold onto them and still fly from LGW. Air Mauritius did this and still hold LHR slots yet fly daily from LGW instead.

I have used DUB-LGW and I am sorry it's dropped. Dublin-London is still a huge market and I am surprised they've walked away from LGW once again. (3rd time now at least). They have also flown STN-DUB and more recently LCY-DUB was a grand offering with CityJet in Aer Lingus colours. I wonder if BA moving to DUB T2 was a factor in making sure IAG's LHR flights still gets on pier parking and so LGW was chopped? Probably not....

[EI-BUD]

They could still lease spare LHR slots out to anyone on the long list of those wanting in and still hold onto them and still fly from LGW. Air Mauritius did this and still hold LHR slots yet fly daily from LGW instead.

I have used DUB-LGW and I am sorry it's dropped. Dublin-London is still a huge market and I am surprised they've walked away from LGW once again. (3rd time now at least). They have also flown STN-DUB and more recently LCY-DUB was a grand offering with CityJet in Aer Lingus colours. I wonder if BA moving to DUB T2 was a factor in making sure IAG's LHR flights still gets on pier parking and so LGW was chopped? Probably not....
Clearly they could Skipness One Foxtrot, but it's a commercial decision. LGW is cut throat.
I'll also miss LGW, I've used it as a connection point often.

[FlyGatwick]

They could still lease spare LHR slots out to anyone on the long list of those wanting in and still hold onto them and still fly from LGW. Air Mauritius did this and still hold LHR slots yet fly daily from LGW instead.

I have used DUB-LGW and I am sorry it's dropped. Dublin-London is still a huge market and I am surprised they've walked away from LGW once again. (3rd time now at least). They have also flown STN-DUB and more recently LCY-DUB was a grand offering with CityJet in Aer Lingus colours. I wonder if BA moving to DUB T2 was a factor in making sure IAG's LHR flights still gets on pier parking and so LGW was chopped? Probably not....

I think I another reason for Aer Lingus to pull out of Gatwick is stiff competition with Ryanair.

It's one thing to compete with a low-frequency Ryanair service that goes to an airport at the other end of the route only the Ryanair marketing people believe actually serves the city they say it does - like "Frankfurt" Hahn which is actually closer to Luxembourg than Frankfurt or "Copenhagen West" a.k.a. Malmo, a completely different airport in a neighbouring country, for example - but quite another to compete head-to-head with a high-frequency Ryanair service operating at commonly timed, fairly evenly spread popular times throughout the day operating into the main airport at the other end of the route, especially if Ryanair's frequency is much higher. On Gatwick-Dublin Aer Lingus' four to five times daily service competes with an up to eight times daily Ryanair service. As well, given the vast direct - i.e., non-stop - transatlantic air travel opens from and to London plus the fact that Aer Lingus competes with Icelandair, which tends to have better timed connections (at least as far as Gatwick is concerned), in the one-stop transatlantic air travel market, it doesn't take rocket science to work out why Aer Lingus has thrown in the towel on Gatwick-Dublin.

[Keanaga]

Hi FR fly to CPH nit Malmo.

Regards.

[FlyGatwick]

Spectator's Balcony is a better place for many of these, they're personal wishlists and don't really add anything to the conversation. Have you guys seen the loads on LGW-FRA? They're dire from what I've seen. Aer Lingus have just canned DUB and BA dropping AMS looks like IAG focussing more on LGW as a differentiator rather than complimenting LHR short haul. KLM are fat for LHR slots so would be unlikely IMHO. I sometimes wonder if even LHR-CDG adds much for Air France nowadays, it's gone all A220 of late so it would be masochistic of AF to undermine that further by opening LGW. They don't even offer LCY anymore either.

Btw is Singapore going North or South?

Does it really surprise you that Lufthansa's Gatwick-Frankfurt loads are dire given how often Lufthansa and Frankfurt Airport staff are going on strike? Who in their right mind wants to risk flying with Lufthansa and / or via Frankfurt only to have their travel plans disrupted given that there are far better options like Emirates, Qatar Airways Singapore Airlines and Turkish for example, especially when seated at the back of the plane and when flying out of Gatwick (incl. Singapore Airlines from June this year)?

[pabely]

So Air India will not be starting Bengaluru - London Gatwick. The airline was expected to commence flights on May 1, 2024.

[Sotonsean]

So Air India will not be starting Bengaluru - London Gatwick. The airline was expected to commence flights on May 1, 2024.

See post 1605.

Posted over a week ago at 07.58 on Wednesday 13 March 2024.

[pabely]

See post 1605.

Posted over a week ago at 07.58 on Wednesday 13 March 2024.
I did scroll back a while to check but due to size of recent posts, obviously not far enough.

[FlyGatwick]

Not entirely correct. There was quite a long period 80s/90s when the only operator LGWAMS was Transavia. Cityflyer Express started on the route late 1990s (as BA Express). It was one of CityFlyer’s most profitable routes.

I seem to remember that BA had relinquished LGW-AMS to Dan-Air during the 1990 / '91 winter timetable period, initially continuing the 3 daily BA rotations and then building up frequency to up to five daily during the 1991 summer timetable period and contiung to operate the route until Dan-Air was taken over by BA at the end of 1992 (with BA not continuing the route).

I also seem to remember that at the turn of the millennium KLM had taken over Transavia's four daily LGW-AMS rotations. From memory, the service was withdrawn following 9 / 11, bringing to an end KLM's 2nd Gatwick stint (the first being from 1973 to 1974, when at the start of the 1973 summer timetable period KLM had become the first non-UK airline to split its London operations between LHR and LGW; KLM's the 3× daily LGW-AMS service was withdrawn again in 1974, following the quadrupling of jet fuel prices in the wake of the OPEC countries' oil boycott of the West in retaliation for Western support of Israel during the 1973 Arab-Israeli war).

[FlyGatwick]

So Air India will not be starting Bengaluru - London Gatwick. The airline was expected to commence flights on May 1, 2024.

This seems to be part of a wider schedule review at AI as they've not only withdrawn their most recently filed Gatwick-Bengaluru and Delhi-Hanoi schedule listings but have done the same as well re previously listed schedules to Dallas, LA and Seattle. So, as I already said earlier, this appears to be a temporary adjustment driven by staff shortages and supply chain issues. Hopefully, Gatwick-Bengaluru (and the other previously posted schedule updates) will be back on again later during the year.

Further on the topic of potential new Gatwick-India scheduled services, according to a Bloomberg report, Indigo - India's biggest airline by fleet size, flights and passengers - is mulling placing an order for 30 A350s to expand into long-haul with its own equipment. If Indigo really do this, they can be expected to launch daily flights from Delhi, Mumbai and Bengaluru to London. Given the slot situation at Heathrow and that as a financially responsible airline they'd probably not want to follow in Kingfisher's and Jet Airways' footsteps to pay top dollar for Heathrow slots even before their first long-haul flight to London has left India, they'd probably look to Gatwick instead rather than Stansted (the only other plausible London area airport capable of accommodating a widebody operating non-stop to / from India without payload restrictions). However, given Airbus' growing A350 backlog and lengthening delivery times, I wouldn't expect this to happen before 2026 at the earliest.

[FRatSTN]

This seems to be part of a wider schedule review at AI as they've not only withdrawn their most recently filed Gatwick-Bengaluru and Delhi-Hanoi schedule listings but have done the same as well re previously listed schedules to Dallas, LA and Seattle. So, as I already said earlier, this appears to be a temporary adjustment driven by staff shortages and supply chain issues. Hopefully, Gatwick-Bengaluru (and the other previously posted schedule updates) will be back on again later during the year.

Further on the topic of potential new Gatwick-India scheduled services, according to a Bloomberg report, Indigo - India's biggest airline by fleet size, flights and passengers - is mulling placing an order for 30 A350s to expand into long-haul with its own equipment. If Indigo really do this, they can be expected to launch daily flights from Delhi, Mumbai and Bengaluru to London. Given the slot situation at Heathrow and that as a financially responsible airline they'd probably not want to follow in Kingfisher's and Jet Airways' footsteps to pay top dollar for Heathrow slots even before their first long-haul flight to London has left India, they'd probably look to Gatwick instead rather than Stansted (the only other plausible London area airport capable of accommodating a widebody operating non-stop to / from India without payload restrictions). However, given Airbus' growing A350 backlog and lengthening delivery times, I wouldn't expect this to happen before 2026 at the earliest.

Indigo I believe were close to launching at STN before Covid hit but were planning on running A321neos with a potential stopover. That plan was then dropped in favour of securing wide body aircraft I believe. I agree with that model they'd probably favour LGW, especially with Air India now established there too.

I do think though the Amritsar service by Air India was well suited to STN in the time it operated. Loads were good and as a heavily VFR targeted route, STN was geographically better placed to that market than LGW. But since they were moving most of their point-to-point routes to India out of LHR it makes total sense why they consolidated at LGW. If the slot situation ever gets to a point at LGW that they cannot add additional capacity such as Bengaluru that they may like, I wouldn't be surprised then to maybe see the Amritsar route go back to STN.

[FlyGatwick]

Indigo I believe were close to launching at STN before Covid hit but were planning on running A321neos with a potential stopover. That plan was then dropped in favour of securing wide body aircraft I believe. I agree with that model they'd probably favour LGW, especially with Air India now established there too.

I do think though the Amritsar service by Air India was well suited to STN in the time it operated. Loads were good and as a heavily VFR targeted route, STN was geographically better placed to that market than LGW. But since they were moving most of their point-to-point routes to India out of LHR it makes total sense why they consolidated at LGW. If the slot situation ever gets to a point at LGW that they cannot add additional capacity such as Bengaluru that they may like, I wouldn't be surprised then to maybe see the Amritsar route go back to STN.

Rather somewhat ironically, the vast majority of the VFR passengers frequenting AI's LGW-ATQ route hail from the Punjab region in the Northwest of India and are heavily concentrated in the area around LHR. Therefore, I'm not too sure that getting from the area around LHR to STN is any easier than getting from there to LGW.

Of the four routes AI has shifted from LHR to LGW, the one best suited to the LGW catchment is the one to COK (Cochin/ Kochi), the most populous city and the commercial centre of the southwestern Indian state of Kerala, also known locally as the Pearl of the Arabian Sea. Many of the VFR passengers frequenting this route actually live and work (mainly in the health care / carehome sectors) relatively close to LGW. And unlike ATQ and GOX (and somewhat similar to AMD), COK isn't all-VFR / a mix of VFR and leisure (mainly Brits with no roots on the Subcontinent); it also has potential to attract a substantial number of business passengers if AI can up the frequency from the current 3× weekly service to daily (or near-daily, at least 5× weekly) and gets the service proposition right which unfortunately hasn't been the case with AI in the past (incl. giving the 787-8s currently serving the route revamped interiors with all the new AI products and positive staff attitudes to match). In this context, some Indian media outlets have reported that AI is going to increase frequencies on LGW-COK from 3× weekly to 4× weekly during the forthcoming summer timetable period, although this has so far nowhere been confirmed by AI (unlike LGW-BLR, where they'd already loaded the schedules on their website but never opened reservations). LGW-AMD could be a similar story to LGW-COK if AI get the frequency and service proposition right as in addition to the currently targeted VFR market - with many of these passengers actually living near LHR as well (similar to the ATQ target market), however, there also being a substantial number of passengers living in Crawley, West Sussex, right on LGW's doorstep (unlike the ATQ target market, where very, very few passengers live in the area around LGW). Similar to COK, AMD is the commercial centre of the western Indian state of Gujarat, one of the most developed in India and home to some of India's biggest industrialists and the birth place and original home of India's PM Narendra Modi. Gujarat is also the centre of India's diamond industry (concentrated in and around the city of Surat, one of three centres of the global diamond trade (the others being Amsterdam and Antwerp, respectively)).

l agree that if AI can no longer expand its LGW presence, they'll probably give STN another look. But, by that time, I'd expect AI to have up to three global hubs in India up and running - at DEL, BOM (probably the upcoming airport at Navi Mumbai / New Bombay due to open later this year rather than the existing Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj Airport as the latter is operated as a single-runway airport like LGW at the moment which makes it difficult to operate a functioning and internationally competitive hub-and-spoke system based around multiple daily banks of flights) and either BLR or HYD, the airports serving Bengaluru and Hyderabad, respectively, the two main IT and high tech centres in the Deccan peninsula of southern India (with my money being on BLR as the bigger and more developed of the two). Given LHR's extremely tight slot situation and my expectation that AI would need to emulate EK if they're serious about implementing a globally competitive hub-and-spoke strategy in India, i.e., serving multiple LON area airports simultaneously as spokes feeding the aforementioned upcoming hubs (like EK feeds its DXB global hub from LON via LHR, LGW and STN simultaneously), in this scenario I'd expect AI to feed at least its DEL and BOM (Navi Mumbai) hubs from both LHR and LGW simultaneously. If then, given a by then extremely tight slot situation at LGW similar to the current slot situation at LHR (especially, if neither LGW's current proposal to bring its northern standby / emergency runway into regular use nor LHR's plan for a fully independent, full-length third runway eventually see the light of day), AI decides to make STN its third LON area airport, I'd expect them to give serious consideration to start flying from STN to BOM (Navi Mumbai), given close links between some of the bio / life sciences companies in Cambridge's Silicon Fenn (for whom STN is their local airport) and their counterparts in the western Indian state of Maharashtra clustered in and around both Mumbai (Maharashtra's commercial centre and state capital) and nearby Pune). Other Indian cities AI could consider serving from STN are MAA (Madras / Chennai), the commercial and political centre of the southern Indian state of Tamil Nadu, another southern Indian IT / high tech and automotive industry centre, and CCU (Calcutta / Kolkata), the commercial and political centre of the northeastern Indian state of West Bengal and the original capital during the Raj, with many of the VFR target market passengers living in London's East End, for whom STN is the most convenient airport. Another aspect in support of AI considering making STN their third LON area airport is if AI wanted to operate all-cargo flights from LON as well as STN is the only LON area airport where airlines can still obtain slots for pure cargo flights (discounting LTN as its relatively short runway is unsuitable for operating non-stop widebody flights to / from India without payload restrictions).

[True Blue]

Has Turkmenistan confirmed moving to Lgw? Only Lhr showing on their site for booking, you would have thought if they are moving in about 2 weeks, Lgw would be showing by now. I know they seem to change plans frequently.

[Playamar2]

Turkmenistan is showing as LGW on Google Flights for Wed (from 1st May) & Sat.(from 6th April).

[True Blue]

Although not available for booking.

[AirportPlanner1]

One of the popular YouTubers flew with Turkmenistan and was saying they are strangely difficult to book with, he went through an agency in Turkey. That could be why flights are not available to purchase through normal channels. The whole country is an oddity, still requiring a Covid test for entry for example. Any car that isn’t white is banned.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The weekly B777 out of LHR is mainly empty I believe....

[True Blue]

I was watching a report on Turkmenistan and they have what seems like a very good airport at ASB with very few flights and the guy was served what looked like a very good meal in economy. Interesting airline.

[nguba]

Norse Atlantic Airways launches LAS 3x weekly from 12 September:

https://news.cision.com/norse-atlantic-airways-as/r/ready--set--vegas---norse-atlantic-airways-announces-new-direct-flight-from-london-gatwick-to-las-ve,c3954206

Norse Atlantic Airways is pleased to announce a brand-new route connecting London Gatwick to the captivating city of Las Vegas. Commencing operations on the 12th of September 2024, the airline will offer travellers the opportunity to immerse themselves in the vibrant energy of Las Vegas with three direct weekly flights.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

FYI Norwegian flew LGW-LAS winter 2016-2018 from 2, growing to 4 weekly. Never came back late 2019 though.

[Aksai Oiler]

I was watching a report on Turkmenistan and they have what seems like a very good airport at ASB with very few flights and the guy was served what looked like a very good meal in economy. Interesting airline.

I was last there in the summer (8th or 9th trip over the last 15 years). Awful Airport, few amenities available (one or two cafes, no business lounge (unless you go through CIP). You can wait over 3 hours to get your visa on arrival, pay in cash for almost everything. Country is one of the most closed left, although people are generally well meaning.

A lot of transit travel onto India.

[True Blue]

From all the new route announcements, it doesn't appear that all the EI slots have been distributed yet to other airlines. Are these BA slots leased to EI or EI owned slots that will be available for any airline to take up? They had 4/5 slots per day, so room for some significant expansion for someone.

[richardwpprn]

Norse 16:45 LAS-LGW departure seems quite early.

[Sotonsean]

Norse 16:45 LAS-LGW departure seems quite early.

Not necessarily, in comparison.

BA226 LAS 15.45 LGW 09.55+

In comparison to

BA0274 LAS 21.45 LHR 15.50+

[SWBKCB]

Fly Erbil in Northern summer 2024 season is extending its network to the UK, as the airline opened reservations for Erbil – London Gatwick route. From 31MAY24, Airbus A320 aircraft will operate this route once weekly on Fridays, although westbound flight will operate via Plovdiv.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/240329-udns24lgw

[tourops]

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/240329-udns24lgw
I think the country 'Iraq' needs to be inserted after Northern

[SWBKCB]

I think the country 'Iraq' needs to be inserted after Northern

No - it says "Northern summer 2024 season", so the period the flight operates.

[FlyGatwick]

Air Peace have since revised their schedule for the airlines proposed route between Lagos and London Gatwick.

The schedule now involves 6 weekly flight's compared to the previously announced 5. Flight's are still intended to start on the 30 March 2024. Air Peace will be using a mix of Boeing 777-200ER and leased Norse Atlantic B789. Air Peace will be using London Gatwick’s South Terminal.

P47578 LOS 00.45 LGW 07.25 B777 7
P47578 LOS 23.59 LGW 06.45 B789 x567
P47578 LOS 23.59 LGW 06.45 B777 5

P47579 LGW 11.10 LOS 17.50 B789 x 567
P47479 LGW 11.10 LOS 17.40 B777 67

Credit to aeroroutes.com

There's a certain individual on Simplistic Flying who's posts are extremely annoying at the best of times. In his regular rants he's recently posted the following.

"I don't want Air Peace flying to the UK with aircraft parts falling on mine and my families home's".

He obviously cares a lot less about his friends home's. He lives in Manchester. How an Air Peace aircraft is going to affect him and his family based in Manchester when the aircraft will be flying upto 200 miles south is beyond me.

But in saying that I've always been rather skeptical about Air Peace and I know others on here share the same opinion.

I was lucky enough to see the Air Peace 777 (a 200 series) operating today's inaugural Gatwick-Lagos flight line up for takeoff on the main runway. I saw it from the window of the train which took me from Gatwick to Brighton. So, Air Peace finally made it to the UK and to Gatwick!


Upon my return to Gatwick, I exited the station via one of the routes that took me straight to South Terminal check-in. When I walked past the info board showing the airlines operating from South Terminal and their allocated check-in zone, I also saw that TAAG had been listed. In my experience, GAL only do this if the airlines concerned have confirmed that they are actually going to operate from the airport. So, does this mean TAAG is after all starting their route from Gatwick to Luanda within the summer 2024 timetable period (most likely later during that period)?

[Sotonsean]

I was lucky enough to see the Air Peace 777 (a 200 series) operating today's inaugural Gatwick-Lagos flight line up for takeoff on the main runway. I saw it from the window of the train which took me from Gatwick to Brighton. So, Air Peace finally made it to the UK and to Gatwick!


Upon my return to Gatwick, I exited the station via one of the routes that took me straight to South Terminal check-in. When I walked past the info board showing the airlines operating from South Terminal and their allocated check-in zone, I also saw that TAAG had been listed. In my experience, GAL only do this if the airlines concerned have confirmed that they are actually going to operate from the airport. So, does this mean TAAG is after all starting their route from Gatwick to Luanda within the summer 2024 timetable period (most likely later during that period)?

TAAG has been shown on the allocated check-in zone ever since the airline was supposed to start flying to the airport in December 2023.

TAAG has been shown on the airports' arrivals/departure boards ever since the airline was supposed to be flying to the airport in December 2023.

If and when the airline actually starts flights to LGW. The day that TAAG releases any further information regarding their intention on starting a Luanda to LGW route, I'll start believing that it's actually going to happen. TAAG has a shortage of long haul aircraft at the moment. Perhaps we might have to wait until they start receiving their Boeing B789s.

But in saying that, of course I would like to see TAAG finally land at LGW.

Also nice to know that you coincidently witnessed for yourself the Air Peace Boeing 777-200 departing LGW on it's inaugural flight back to Lagos.

There is so much potential regarding LGW and the possibility of attracting more African airlines to the airport in the future.

[BA318]

According to reports BA will operate the 787-10 from Gatwick next summer to Barbados: https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/british-airways-raises-london-barbados-capacity
Also being reported that BA will operate Islamabad 3 times weekly from LGW.

[nguba]

According to reports BA will operate the 787-10 from Gatwick next summer to Barbados: https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/british-airways-raises-london-barbados-capacity
Also being reported that BA will operate Islamabad 3 times weekly from LGW.

Think the wording of the article is slightly confused. The actual quote from BA only refers to Heathrow.

In recent years, BA has operated a winter seasonal service from Gatwick to Barbados and this is not returning. BA has increased Barbados from Heathrow up to twice daily, with a 787-10 aircraft.

BA could theoretically operate Barbados from Gatwick again with a 787-10 on a W pattern from Heathrow, but I doubt they'd do it.

[spacedog]

According to reports BA will operate the 787-10 from Gatwick next summer to Barbados: https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/british-airways-raises-london-barbados-capacity
Also being reported that BA will operate Islamabad 3 times weekly from LGW.

BA start double daily from LHR to BGI 27Oct with a combination of 787-9 787-1.
current schedule is daily from LHR with 787-1

islamabad still showing 3 x weekly from LHR summer 2024 and winter 24-25

[vectisman]

Winter seasonal Gatwick to Bridgetown will not operate in winter 2024. The service will be twice daily from Heathrow. The Travel Weekly headline is incorrect.
I do believe the Islamabad service is moving to Gatwick this Winter. Timetable will be updated shortly I believe.

[SWBKCB]

Allen Onyema, the CEO of Air Peace, has disclosed that since the airline began its direct flights from Lagos to London a few weeks ago, Gatwick Airport has deliberately frustrated its operations, aiming to impede its activities in the UK recently.

https://nairametrics.com/2024/04/10/air-peace-accuses-gatwick-airport-of-deliberately-obstructing-its-uk-flight-operations/

[Asturias56]

Allen Onyema, the CEO of Air Peace, has disclosed that since the airline began its direct flights from Lagos to London a few weeks ago, Gatwick Airport has deliberately frustrated its operations, aiming to impede its activities in the UK recently. Onyema made this revelation on Tuesday during an exclusive interview on the Channels TV evening program, Politics Today, where he shared insights into his airline’s experience after launching the Lagos-London route.

The CEO of Air Peace has observed that since the airline’s entrance into the Nigeria-UK route, which resulted in lower fares, foreign carriers have been pushing back. He cited recent challenges with ground handling and space allocation at Gatwick Airport as proof of these retaliatory actions.


“On the inaugural flight out of London.
“24 hours to the time, they (management of Gatwick Airport) moved us to another checking area other than the place assigned to us.
“The place they gave us, the carousel was not working.
“So, when you are checking people, you need to manually carry the load 50 metres away to drop it somewhere else just to delay you.
“No other airline faced that,” Onyema explained.

Onyema further revealed that on the day Air Peace was reassigned to a terminal with a malfunctioning baggage carousel, it was subsequently observed that the boarding gate in that area had collapsed, adding to the airline’s growing list of frustrations at the London airport.
Recommended reading: Foreign airlines lowering Lagos-London fares to push us out of market -Air Peace (https://nairametrics.com/2024/04/10/foreign-airlines-lowering-lagos-london-fares-to-push-us-out-of-market-air-peace/) More insight

Onyema delved into the challenges Air Peace faced, recounting instances where, despite completing boarding on time, flights were delayed by an additional 20 minutes because the airport’s management failed to provide ground handlers promptly. He emphasized that while Air Peace consistently departs on schedule from Lagos, it regularly encounters delays at Gatwick Airport.
He suggested that these obstructions might be part of a deliberate strategy to displace Air Peace from Gatwick under the 80/20 slot rule, which mandates that airlines must maintain 80% on-time departure to retain their slots. Failure to meet this standard risks having their slots revoked and given to other airlines.
To combat this, Onyema mentioned that Air Peace is documenting these incidents in a dossier to highlight the deliberate tactics by Gatwick Airport to hinder its operations. This comprehensive record will be presented to the Federal Government to seek intervention and address the injustices faced at Gatwick Airport.

[vectisman]

Gatwick is not responsible for ground handling. That is between Air Peace and whoever was awarded the ground handling contract.
I just do not believe the airport would deliberately obstruct a new carrier to the airport.
Remember this is the man who demanded access to Heathrow and wanted the Nigerian Government to stop BA from having access from LHR to Lagos.
I think he has an agenda here!

[DC3 Dave]

LGW needs to give Air Peace a chance. 🥸

[Apron Artist]

Red Handling handles Air Peace.

[vectisman]

LGW needs to give Air Peace a chance. 🥸
The Air Peace CEO needs to grow up and stop shouting his mouth off more like! He is still cross he didn't get Heathrow.

[SWBKCB]

The Air Peace CEO needs to grow up and stop shouting his mouth off more like! He is still cross he didn't get Heathrow.

And the chances of that are.... 🙄

[vectisman]

And the chances of that are.... 🙄
Exactly, that is why he is making a fuss.

[FlyGatwick]

LGW needs to give Air Peace a chance. 🥸

Does anyone definitively know whether Air Peace has actually ever really applied for slots at any London area airport and whether any slots have actually ever really been allocated to this airline? When I recently checked the ACL slot allocation report, I couldn't come across any evidence to this effect. I also find the current arrangement between Air Peace and Flynorse UK rather odd, i.e., Norse
operating four weekly services for Air Peace on week days under an ACMI arrangement, with Air Peace operating with its own metal on week-ends only. I assume the Gatwick slots Air Peace use are actually part of Norse's Gatwick slot allocation for this summer season for which they haven't got any use themselves, and instead of forfeiting them to a competitor, they temporarily arranged to operate them on behalf of Air Peace. Can someone perhaps shed some more light on this?

Regarding the Air Peace CEO's allegations against Gatwick, I feel these are baseless. Why would Gatwick, who welcome new long-haul airlines and routes with open arms seek to intentionally undermine a new long-haul airline re-establishing a long-lost, much-coveted long-haul route, and in the process tarnish its growing reputation as a viable alternative to Heathrow with much higher profile long-haul airlines, none of whom b.t.w. seem to support these allegations?

Other allegations the Air Peace CEO has reportedly made against Gatwick incl. Gatwick allegedly intentionally delaying publicly acknowledging Air Peace's inaugural service to their airport, as well as allegedly denying Air Peace the customary water cannon salute for its inaugural flight.

I think the Air Peace CEO is playing to the gallery here, indulging in dirty politics which appeal to certain sections of the Nigerian public (and the public in many developing countries more generally), who seek to attribute everything that's wrong with the administration of their country to the former colonial power despite decades of independence which afforded plenty of opportunities to right former colonial wrongs.

[Sotonsean]

Flygatwick

I think that your last paragraph in particular is spot on and you're comments are absolutely true.

Regarding "water salutes", this doesn't seem to happen as often as it used to with inaugural flights. Plus it was also still fairly dark when the inaugural Air Peace flight arrived at LGW. You can just imagine the airlines reaction to this not happening and their unsubstantiated reasons behind it.

Regardless of all that I'm still under the opinion that Air Peace won't be at LGW in five years time or any London airport for that matter.

[Rutan16]

Flygatwick

I think that your last paragraph in particular is spot on and you're comments are absolutely true.

Regarding "water salutes", this doesn't seem to happen as often as it used to with inaugural flights. Plus it was also still fairly dark when the inaugural Air Peace flight arrived at LGW. You can just imagine the airlines reaction to this not happening and their unsubstantiated reasons behind it.

Regardless of all that I'm still under the opinion that Air Peace won't be at LGW in five years time or any London airport for that matter.

Did you mean five months ! They are a sham; when they hold supplier invoices as they will , they will be gone.

.

[Sotonsean]

Did you mean five months ! They are a sham; when they hold supplier invoices as they will , they will be gone.

.

I was very over optimistic when I stated five years. I agree with you, more like five months. I should have typed months rather than years. I think we can safely say that there will be no longevity of service concerning Air Peace at LGW or to the UK, for that matter.

[FlyGatwick]

I really doubt BA will drop AMS/LGW. Unlikely they'll surrender scarce AMS slots, granted they could transfer to other partners. They seem to have balanced the cost equation with easyJet and as such I'm not sure we'll see them leave such a popular route to easyJet. Still lots of time to schedule that, very little winter bookings would be taking place at this early stage, some not much.

Re earlier comments in the thread about EI slots at LGW, it's my understanding that the final decision about LGW was made at reasonably short notice and BA wasn't ready for it and there were no immediate uses for the slots by BA/VY. Likely gives rise to the range of new services being added at LGW by new customers to LGW. Well done LGW on attracting such new business.

I understand the rules on slot usage are being fully restored from start of S24 and EI will hence need to use all of its LHR slots daily. This is why they made the decision to concentrate their business at LHR as their London airport.

Having had a look at Aurigny's new Gatwick-Guernsey summer timetable the other day, I noticed that they appear to have increased their daily rotations from five / six per day to eight per day. Is this perhaps where some of the Aer Lingus Gatwick slots could have gone?

On a different note, who could be next?

Are we likely to see Cathay's return to Gatwick, if not this coming winter season, the following summer season (as they don't seem to have sufficient staff at the moment to resume all of their pre-pandemic routes and services)? I very much hope so.

Another possibility of a Gatwick service resumption after an even longer gap (compared with Cathay) is Etihad resuming Gatwick - Abu Dhabi, perhaps as early as summer 2025, should they decide to add a fifth daily London frequency to their current four daily Heathrow - Abu Dhabi frequencies.

And then there is a possibility of Air Arabia launching Gatwick-Sharjah as the airline's CEO hinted in a recent interview that Air Arabia was looking at launching a London service from its hubs in the UAE (Sharjah and / or Ras Al Khaimah) once it's A321 neo LRs are delivered. Realistically, this is unlikely to happen before 2026. What makes me think that if such a service is launched, Gatwick is the most likely London airport to receive it is the non-availability of Heathrow slots (and as an LCC - of sorts - I can't see Air Arabia paying the sort of money Heathrow slots command) and the fact that Air Arabia Maroc already fly to Gatwick.

As well, there are number of possibilities of existing and new (for Gatwick) South Asian airlines adding starting new services from Gatwick later this year and next:

Air India is still expected to reinstate its previously planned Gatwick-Bengaluru service, especially since the airline has meanwhile confirmed that Bengaluru will be its second global hub after Delhi and its first South Indian hub. In addition, there have been reports that the airline is planning to add more frequencies from London to its main Delhi hub - additional to the daily Heathrow-Delhi frequency Air India will inherit from Vistara once the merger between these two Tata-owned full service airlines has been consummated - to be added at Gatwick due to non-availability of the required Heathrow slots. In addition, the Indian media has also reported that weekly Gatwick-Kochi frequencies are set to increase from three to four later this year, and the Air India manager for northeastern India has been quoted as saying that the airline is mulling launching a direct London-Kolkata service. Again, due to non-avalability of Heathrow slots, this route is likely to operate from Gatwick (should it become reality, subject to Air India being allocated sufficient, suitably timed Gatwick slots). Moreover, once again subject to there being relevant slot availability at Gatwick, I believe it is highly likely Air India will want to launch direct services from London to the new airport at Navi Mumbai (New Bombay), the greater Mumbai area's second international airport due to become operational at the end of this year or early next, that the airline will want to reinstate direct London-Hyderabad services and probably also look at starting direct London-Chennai flights.

Other than Air India planning to add to its existing Gatwick services, as I already said previously, there is a possibility of Indigo, India's biggest (and by some accounts now Asia's biggest and the world's third most valuable publicly listed airline after Delta and Ryanair) airline, launching Gatwick-Delhi, Gatwick - (Navi) Mumbai and Gatwick-Bengaluru should they go ahead with reported plans to add a dedicated long-haul widebody fleet of 30 A350s, with these services most likely to commence in 2026 or 2027.

Beyond India, other South Asian possibilities launching services from Gatwick include US Bangla Airlines, a Bangladeshi hybrid airline, which recently acquired A330s capable of flying direct from Bangladesh to the UK with a viable payload (with the first batch currently serving destinations in West Asia). This airline has been reported as looking at launching direct flights from Dhaka and Sylhet to London. Indeed, this airline actually did already operate a short-lived regular scheduled low-frequency, multi stop Gatwick-Dhaka service using MD80 narrowbodies ca. 10-12 years ago. Then, there is a possibility of Pakistan International Airlines resuming flights from London to Karachi and Lahore should they pass the current simultaneous safety audits of the CAA, FAA and EASA as a necessary precondition for resuming flights to the UK, the US and the EU, respectively. Although Pakistan International has retained its Heathrow slots (currently leased to Turkish Airlines), given the dire financial state of the airline, they may decide to continue leasing them to Turkish or to sell them altogether. Given that Sri Lankan Airlines is in a similar financial state, they may decide to lease out their Heathrow slots as well and transfer their London operations to Gatwick instead.

Elsewhere in Asia, my money is still on Starlux launching a Gatwick-Taipei A350 service.

Facing in the opposite geographic direction from the UK, there is also a possibility of Delta adding a summer-seasonal Gatwick-Boston service (as originally planned pre-pandemic) to its current summer-seasonal Gatwick-JFK service, United launching a summer-seasonal Gatwick-Newark service and perhaps even American launching a summer-seasonal Gatwick-Philadelphia service.

[andymartin]

Having had a look at Aurigny's new Gatwick-Guernsey summer timetable the other day, I noticed that they appear to have increased their daily rotations from five / six per day to eight per day. Is this perhaps where some of the Aer Lingus Gatwick slots could have gone?

On a different note, who could be next?

Are we likely to see Cathay's return to Gatwick, if not this coming winter season, the following summer season (as they don't seem to have sufficient staff at the moment to resume all of their pre-pandemic routes and services)? I very much hope so.

Another possibility of a Gatwick service resumption after an even longer gap (compared with Cathay) is Etihad resuming Gatwick - Abu Dhabi, perhaps as early as summer 2025, should they decide to add a fifth daily London frequency to their current four daily Heathrow - Abu Dhabi frequencies.

And then there is a possibility of Air Arabia launching Gatwick-Sharjah as the airline's CEO hinted in a recent interview that Air Arabia was looking at launching a London service from its hubs in the UAE (Sharjah and / or Ras Al Khaimah) once it's A321 neo LRs are delivered. Realistically, this is unlikely to happen before 2026. What makes me think that if such a service is launched, Gatwick is the most likely London airport to receive it is the non-availability of Heathrow slots (and as an LCC - of sorts - I can't see Air Arabia paying the sort of money Heathrow slots command) and the fact that Air Arabia Maroc already fly to Gatwick.

As well, there are number of possibilities of existing and new (for Gatwick) South Asian airlines adding starting new services from Gatwick later this year and next:

Air India is still expected to reinstate its previously planned Gatwick-Bengaluru service, especially since the airline has meanwhile confirmed that Bengaluru will be its second global hub after Delhi and its first South Indian hub. In addition, there have been reports that the airline is planning to add more frequencies from London to its main Delhi hub - additional to the daily Heathrow-Delhi frequency Air India will inherit from Vistara once the merger between these two Tata-owned full service airlines has been consummated - to be added at Gatwick due to non-availability of the required Heathrow slots. In addition, the Indian media has also reported that weekly Gatwick-Kochi frequencies are set to increase from three to four later this year, and the Air India manager for northeastern India has been quoted as saying that the airline is mulling launching a direct London-Kolkata service. Again, due to non-avalability of Heathrow slots, this route is likely to operate from Gatwick (should it become reality, subject to Air India being allocated sufficient, suitably timed Gatwick slots). Moreover, once again subject to there being relevant slot availability at Gatwick, I believe it is highly likely Air India will want to launch direct services from London to the new airport at Navi Mumbai (New Bombay), the greater Mumbai area's second international airport due to become operational at the end of this year or early next, that the airline will want to reinstate direct London-Hyderabad services and probably also look at starting direct London-Chennai flights.

Other than Air India planning to add to its existing Gatwick services, as I already said previously, there is a possibility of Indigo, India's biggest (and by some accounts now Asia's biggest and the world's third most valuable publicly listed airline after Delta and Ryanair) airline, launching Gatwick-Delhi, Gatwick - (Navi) Mumbai and Gatwick-Bengaluru should they go ahead with reported plans to add a dedicated long-haul widebody fleet of 30 A350s, with these services most likely to commence in 2026 or 2027.

Beyond India, other South Asian possibilities launching services from Gatwick include US Bangla Airlines, a Bangladeshi hybrid airline, which recently acquired A330s capable of flying direct from Bangladesh to the UK with a viable payload (with the first batch currently serving destinations in West Asia). This airline has been reported as looking at launching direct flights from Dhaka and Sylhet to London. Indeed, this airline actually did already operate a short-lived regular scheduled low-frequency, multi stop Gatwick-Dhaka service using MD80 narrowbodies ca. 10-12 years ago. Then, there is a possibility of Pakistan International Airlines resuming flights from London to Karachi and Lahore should they pass the current simultaneous safety audits of the CAA, FAA and EASA as a necessary precondition for resuming flights to the UK, the US and the EU, respectively. Although Pakistan International has retained its Heathrow slots (currently leased to Turkish Airlines), given the dire financial state of the airline, they may decide to continue leasing them to Turkish or to sell them altogether. Given that Sri Lankan Airlines is in a similar financial state, they may decide to lease out their Heathrow slots as well and transfer their London operations to Gatwick instead.

Elsewhere in Asia, my money is still on Starlux launching a Gatwick-Taipei A350 service.

Facing in the opposite geographic direction from the UK, there is also a possibility of Delta adding a summer-seasonal Gatwick-Boston service (as originally planned pre-pandemic) to its current summer-seasonal Gatwick-JFK service, United launching a summer-seasonal Gatwick-Newark service and perhaps even American launching a summer-seasonal Gatwick-Philadelphia service.

Can I have some of what you've been smoking

[BA318]

Starlux said they are focused on U.S. market for now but will eventually go to Europe. Although they are very much marketing themselves as a high quality top level airline and seem to have a lot of money so I suspect they would pay for LHR if needed.

I can’t see United at LGW. They have a maintenance base and huge lounge at LHR plus their partners. It would make no sense to add a random once a day to LGW.

AA won’t be back either. BA is still short of frames and I would imagine AA could take over BA routes if needed like the do or use BA’s LHR slots of which they have plenty of slot sitters.

I suspect Etihad will cough up and pay for more LHR slots if they want to increase frequencies just as they have done in the past.

I would guess that further long haul growth will come from India, China possibly Thai, and African carriers.

[SealinkBF]

LGW needs to give Air Peace a chance. 🥸

🤣🤣🤣

[FlyGatwick]

🤣🤣🤣

The latest complaint added to the Air Peace CEO's catalogue against Gatwick is that their turnaround is too tight. Apparently, the Gatwick senior management's "ulterior motive" here is to blacken Air Peace's reputation by setting them up to ruin their punctuality record at the airport. Funny though that this seems to be an issue for Air Peace only and not for any other regular airline at Gatwick.

Just for comparison: The daily Air Peace service from Lagos has a scheduled arrival time of 7:35 am. The scheduled departure time of the flight in the opposite direction is 11:10 am. The first of three daily Emirates services from Dubai has a scheduled arrival time of 7:30 am. The aircraft operating this flight is scheduled to return to Dubai at 10:05 am. So, Emirates has one hour less to turn around its aircraft - either a 777-300ER or an A380, both of which are bigger than Air Peace's 777-200ER or its subcontracted Fly Norse 787-9s and take longer to turn around assuming similar loads - and can apparently do this (ATC delays excluded) and - to the best of my knowledge has never complained about this being an issue (and if there was something they are / were unhappy about the arrangements at Gatwick, such as Emirates not being impressed by Gatwick's temporary now dismantled A380 boarding gate at the far end of pier 6 which has now been replaced by a superior permanent structure at gate 558 where pier 4 and pier 5 meet, they'll quietly take it up with Gatwick management instead of going public in the media). Not only that, but the turns of Emirates' second and third daily Dubai services at Gatwick are even tighter (12:30-14:30 and 19:45-21:45), leaving just two hours on the ground to turn around an A380 (with the high-capacity, two-class 615-seater regularly being used on the third daily evening turn).

[FlyGatwick]

Starlux said they are focused on U.S. market for now but will eventually go to Europe. Although they are very much marketing themselves as a high quality top level airline and seem to have a lot of money so I suspect they would pay for LHR if needed.

I can’t see United at LGW. They have a maintenance base and huge lounge at LHR plus their partners. It would make no sense to add a random once a day to LGW.

AA won’t be back either. BA is still short of frames and I would imagine AA could take over BA routes if needed like the do or use BA’s LHR slots of which they have plenty of slot sitters.

I suspect Etihad will cough up and pay for more LHR slots if they want to increase frequencies just as they have done in the past.

I would guess that further long haul growth will come from India, China possibly Thai, and African carriers.

I'd say we'll have to wait and see.

Many people (myself included) never thought that seeing Singapore Airlines, the best example of of a high-quality, full-service long-haul airline I can think of whose two-letter flight number prefix SQ actually stands for superior quality, at Gatwick other than on a one-off charter or a diversion can be anything other than a pipe dream. And as far as the money to buy the slots needed to increase frequencies at Heathrow is concerned, as one of the most consistently profitable and one of the most highly capitalised airlines of one of the wealthiest and economically most successful nations, Singapore Airlines could surely have found this money to buy these slots off a struggling, effectively slot-sitting airline at Heathrow. Yet they decided to come to Gatwick (possibly recognising the value of the additional connecting passenger and cargo traffic Gatwick can generate in areas outside of the Heathrow catchment, something Emirates already recognised three decades ago as far as Gatwick is concerned and more recently as far as Stansted is concerned as well). So, your comment regarding Starlux as well as Etihad is premature in my opinion.

Regarding the big three US legacy carriers, using your argument as to why United wouldn't ever consider operating an additional daily summer-seasonal service from Gatwick to Newark, pretty much the same could also be said about Delta. They also have all their Skyteam alliance partners at Heathrow, incl. their main transatlantic JV partner Virgin Atlantic, with their Heathrow presence being all-year round dwarfing their single daily summer-seasonal Gatwick-JFK service. Yet they decided to come to Gatwick last summer after a 12-year hiatus, even after JV partner Virgin had ditched Gatwick entirely at the start of the pandemic, and decided to come back again this summer. I don't think Delta only did this because Virgin gave them one of their former four to five daily Gatwick slot pairs, i.e., essentially only to do Virgin a favour so that not all of their former Gatwick slots get passed to other airlines with whom they have no business relationship in the increasingly unlikely event that Virgin decided to return to Gatwick. Also re a potential future seasonal United presence at Gatwick, I know from a presentation Gatwick did last year, which was about the long-haul airlines their route development team is focusing on, United was one of the airlines mentioned on one of the PowerPoint slides I saw (as were Japan Airlines and LatAm b.t.w.). While there was no mention of American, in an interview the head of the Gatwick route development team gave to a media outlet I can't remember at the moment, she said that she was the former head of Philadelphia Airport's route development team and that she wanted to use her contacts with the Philadelphia airline community to attract a daily service from Philadelphia to Gatwick, at least on a seasonal basis. American being the resident hub-and-spoke operator at Philadelphia would be the only realistic candidate to realise this ambition in my opinion.

Last but not least, Gatwick's current management has demonstrably a far better track record than its BAA counterpart in its final decade of the airport's ownership (2000-2009) as far as attracting blue chip airlines to start / resume services from Gatwick is concerned.

So, never say never.

[laviation]

One could say Delta are only at Gatwick because of JetBlue. Not to detract from Gatwick at all, but they (DL) have a serious track record of retaliation.

United are snipping LHR flights at present so can’t see them adding another London station if this trend continues.

TATL carriers will always have an easier time getting in to Heathrow with open skies . Gatwick will always see more success in attracting services to the likes of China and India where the number of flights are limited. Not to rule anything out, though.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

@flygatwick That's just a spotter's wishlist, and nothing wrong with that in principle, BUT you're missing the commercial background and context. Would it be lovely if Gatwick looked like a mini LHR? MAN has the same view, but LGW long haul always needs to be viewed through a LHR lens. What cohort of airlines would simply move to LHR leaving LGW forever if they could vs. those who do well at LGW and are better suited there. The latter set in my view is Air Transat, Westjet (one flight stuck at T4 all alone seems odd IMHO), Norse, BA's Beach Fleet (would they move if they got a third LHR runway?) and TUI. Emirates and Qatar also seem happy to serve LGW in a complimentary fashion to LHR. The Chinese carriers would move out tomorrow if they could get slots, as would Air India and Singapore's A380 retirements drove a need to grow using frequency, they may well get another LHR slot and shift across.
Air Peace and Turkmenistan are bit players barely worth a mention cos they fly heavies. The London market has some strong drivers that will continue to make LGW long haul a challenge to hang onto over the longer term. There is natural churn to LHR over the medium term for anyone not in the second set above.

[Charley B]

We appear to have a Qantas A380 visitor at 7.00 tomorrow from Singapore..QF331 ex SYD ..does anyone know why this is here Cruise charter?
Nice to have a different airline and a heavy aircraft here 🙂

[vectisman]

We appear to have a Qantas A380 visitor at 7.00 tomorrow from Singapore..QF331 ex SYD ..does anyone know why this is here Cruise charter?
Nice to have a different airline and a heavy aircraft here 🙂
FR24 now showing an arrival time or 0517. An interesting arrival. Could possibly be a cruise charter. I know some cruise lines offer half around the world cruises. Either join or leave at Sydney, but the ship
does the whole journey. Although passengers generally just take a normal scheduled flight.
Or are they possibly helping out TUI who have been operating some winter flights to and from Singapore?

[Charley B]

It seems to have originated from Sydney and was also on the departure board at SIN ..sure a mystery I also saw a comment on an aviation group I’m in that it is back here on 30/4 ..lovely to have a large visitor here ,a nice clear sky please 🙏
the FR arrival time is strange as it is way behind aBA380 going to LHR from SIN and that is arriving at 6.24 ?

[vectisman]

It seems to have originated from Sydney and was also on the departure board at SIN ..sure a mystery I also saw a comment on an aviation group I’m in that it is back here on 30/4 ..lovely to have a large visitor here ,a nice clear sky please 🙏
the FR arrival time is strange as it is way behind aBA380 going to LHR from SIN and that is arriving at 6.24 ?
Now showing 0605. Guess it will depend on weather and any possible Middle East diverts.

[Charley B]

Yes ,I think that too..I will try and follow it a bit more later ..lovely to see other heavies here ..the A340 operating for MK over the last few weeks has been enjoyed

[strawberry Ribena]

We appear to have a Qantas A380 visitor at 7.00 tomorrow from Singapore..QF331 ex SYD ..does anyone know why this is here Cruise charter?
Nice to have a different airline and a heavy aircraft here 🙂

Emirates is using 777 on ek11/12 so no problem there- will go to stand 558 i think. Dnata handling it?

[vectisman]

Out of interest how many A380 capable gates does Gatwick have? One or two?

[Sotonsean]

Out of interest how many A380apable gates does Gatwick have? One or two?

One, Stand/Gate 558 on Pier 4.

[vectisman]

One, Stand 558 on Pier 4.
Thank you.

[Charley B]

I think and I could well be wrong ,gate 558 is the only one but I’m not totally sure ..the EK 11/12 in the morning is now a 777 till end of July so they won’t fight over it 😉..the QF is meant to depart at 09.55 .

[Charley B]

Thanks Sean x

[spannersatcx]

Having had a look at Aurigny's new Gatwick-Guernsey summer timetable the other day, I noticed that they appear to have increased their daily rotations from five / six per day to eight per day. Is this perhaps where some of the Aer Lingus Gatwick slots could have gone?

On a different note, who could be next?

Are we likely to see Cathay's return to Gatwick, if not this coming winter season, the following summer season (as they don't seem to have sufficient staff at the moment to resume all of their pre-pandemic routes and services)? I very much hope so.

.
The answer to that is a definite no I'm told.

[mhk77]

One, Stand/Gate 558 on Pier 4.
That's the only pier served A380 stand. However, 172, 234 and 235 are also A380 capable, albeit they're remote stands which means lots of buses back and forth for the passengers!

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

One, Stand/Gate 558 on Pier 4.
Has 110 been redeveloped I guess?

[Sotonsean]

Has 110 been redeveloped, I guess?

Not yet.

The extension to Pier 6 was put on hold during the covid 19 pandemic.

The area has been cleared, and preparation works had previously commenced in 2019, but this was also put on hold.

Preparation works started again earlier this year, with construction supposed to commence Q324 with a completion date set for 2026.

The extension will allow for contact stands fitted with airbridges for eight narrow body aircraft.

The associated taxiway alignments were undertaken after the A380 gate was moved from Gate 110 to Gate 558 in 2019.

There are upto date docking charts online, plus it's noticeable on Google Earth.

[Sotonsean]

That's the only pier served A380 stand. However, 172, 234 and 235 are also A380 capable, albeit they're remote stands which means lots of buses back and forth for the passengers!

Correct it is the only pier served A380 stand at LGW. As the conversation was regarding A380 gate availability at LGW I omitted the remote stands that you have kindly mentioned. I was aware of stands 234 and 235 being A380 capable but I wasn't aware that stand 172 is as well.

[vectisman]

I am hearing that the QANTAS charter was for the Plymouth Bretheren. They return on 30th April.

[pamann]

I am hearing that the QANTAS charter was for the Plymouth Bretheren. They return on 30th April.

This would make the most sense. I have a friend at QF and this flight was discussed as happening soon.

[jmdavies86]

Things don't appear to be going too well for Air Peace at LGW - allegations of 'operational sabotage' according to the following article:

https://www.naijanews.com/2024/04/12/air-peace-alleges-operational-sabotage-by-gatwick-airport-in-new-lagos-london-route/

The CEO emphasized that while Air Peace consistently departs on schedule from Lagos, its operations are regularly hampered upon arrival in London. He cited additional delays caused by the late arrival of ground handlers provided by the airport, which further complicates the timely departure of flights from Gatwick.

[vectisman]

Things don't appear to be going too well for Air Peace at LGW - allegations of 'operational sabotage' according to the following article:

https://www.naijanews.com/2024/04/12/air-peace-alleges-operational-sabotage-by-gatwick-airport-in-new-lagos-london-route/
This has been commented on above. To be honest the Air Peace CEO has an agenda and is always shouting off about something.

[Charley B]

Thank you ..vectisman ..mystery solved x

[JW95]

The answer to that is a definite no I'm told.
Is this regarding Cathay? Travel24 has previously mentioned in this thread that CX are planning to return to Gatwick from October this year, 5 weekly to start off with based on internal sources within the airport. Cathay Pacific did well at LGW following their return to the airport in 2016. I am absolutely sure that had it not been for Covid breaking out, Cathay would still be serving the route today, as it was one of the more successful of the newer long haul routes launched. LHR is now finally back up to 5 daily this summer, albeit with 3 77Ws and 2 A359s per day (versus the 5 daily 777-only operation pre-pandemic), although this is mostly due to the 777 retrofit programme, hence why seat capacity has reduced slightly with the 2 A350s. Hopefully they will return to LGW, especially with SQ arriving soon.

[spannersatcx]

Is this regarding Cathay? Travel24 has previously mentioned in this thread that CX are planning to return to Gatwick from October this year, 5 weekly to start off with based on internal sources within the airport. Cathay Pacific did well at LGW following their return to the airport in 2016. I am absolutely sure that had it not been for Covid breaking out, Cathay would still be serving the route today, as it was one of the more successful of the newer long haul routes launched. LHR is now finally back up to 5 daily this summer, albeit with 3 77Ws and 2 A359s per day (versus the 5 daily 777-only operation pre-pandemic), although this is mostly due to the 777 retrofit programme, hence why seat capacity has reduced slightly with the 2 A350s. Hopefully they will return to LGW, especially with SQ arriving soon.
There's no plans at this time for CX to resume LGW operations I'm told, nor Dublin for what it's worth. 777 retrofit hasn't started as yet, it's more to do with crewing, there's still some 777 in storage yet to come out. LGW and DUB were 2 of the least profitable routes in Europe, having said that things change so who knows, but definitely can't see it happening this year, if at all!

[Mayfield62]

Norse Atlantic has scrapped plans to fly from Gatwick to Bridgetown and Montego Bay during the Winter 2024/25 season

[Sotonsean]

Norse Atlantic has scrapped plans to fly from Gatwick to Bridgetown and Montego Bay during the Winter 2024/25 season

I too read that on aeroroutes.com yesterday Tuesday 16 April.

Norse had an opportunity in the Caribbean especially serving the likes of Barbados and Jamaica. But as usual the airline doesn't have a clue what it's doing.

I wonder what destinations they will choose as replacements?

In the last week Norse has just had another €20 million from investors.

It does make me wonder how long this airline will actually survive for.

In my opinion there's no real need for Norse Atlantic Airways, and it won't be a huge loss to the aviation industry if they eventually ceased operations. I'm sure those Boeing 787s plus the pilots and crew would be snapped up by other airlines considering the worldwide shortage.

[ara01jbb]

ZAR (South African rand) has appeared as a payment currency on Norse's website.

I'd wager 100ZAR (i.e. about £5 :E ) that tomorrow's announcement is LGW-CPT, maybe 2 or 3 times a week.

And if they're really mad, they'll launch LGW-DUR at the same time to try and top and tail the Garden Route.

[FlyGatwick]

This has been commented on above. To be honest the Air Peace CEO has an agenda and is always shouting off about something.

Did Air Peace actually ever apply for any slots at any London airport, and have the slots they're currently using at Gatwick actually been awarded to them? I believe these slots are in fact Norse's slots Air Peace doesn't have any slots anywhere in the UK. Also, the Gatwick slots they're currently using seem to be available to them only until the end of August. This is until when they seem to have filed their Gatwick-Lagos schedule according to aeroroutes. It also tallies with Air Peace planning to operate Gatwick-Lagos six times a week entirely with their own metal from 1 June till 31 August as Norse is planning to go double-daily on Gatwick--JFK from June and therefore probably need the aircraft currently operating Gatwick-Lagos for Air Peace four times a week under an ACMI contract for two months (till May-end). And Norse is planning to launch a new, three-times-weekly Gatwick - Las Vegas service starting on 1 September. Hence, they'll need those slots currently used by / for Air Peace themselves, tallying with the end of Air Peace's six-times-weekly Gatwick-Lagos 777 service on 31 August.

Come September, expect the Air Peace CEO to create a huge fuss about how the treacherous, nasty UK government in cahoots with a conspiracy of foreign airlines wanting to see him fail has mugged him of his non-existent Gatwick slots.

[nguba]

Norse has confirmed its launching a new route from Gatwick to Cape Town:

Norse Atlantic Airways proudly announces the launch of its newest route connecting London Gatwick and Cape Town, set to commence on October 28th, 2024. With flights operating three times a week on Monday, Wednesday, and Saturday, travellers can now experience the vibrant culture and breathtaking landscapes of Cape Town with ease.

Like Virgin Atlantic, the inbound flight to London is a day flight.

Outbound flights depart London Gatwick at 20.00 and land in Cape Town at 0930 the following morning. Inbound flights depart Cape Town at 11.45 and arrive at London Gatwick at 21.35 the same day.

[nguba]

BA is also reinstating an IAG link between Gatwick & Dublin from 20 May, as Emerald Airlines will operate a flight for BA up to twice daily..

This is being sold as a BA flight, subcontracted to Emerald Airlines, rather than an EI codeshare.

[Cazza_fly]

BA is also reinstating an IAG link between Gatwick & Dublin from 20 May, as Emerald Airlines will operate a flight for BA up to twice daily..

This is being sold as a BA flight, subcontracted to Emerald Airlines, rather than an EI codeshare.

Struggle to see the benefit of this, purely other than the stronger brand of BA in the UK / Gatwick area. Otherwise, as an IAG airline, why couldn't Aer Lingus just operate it under their own brand with Emerald Airlines and with a BA codeshare. ???

[Sotonsean]

Struggle to see the benefit of this, purely other than the stronger brand of BA in the UK / Gatwick area. Otherwise, as an IAG airline, why couldn't Aer Lingus just operate it under their own brand with Emerald Airlines and with a BA codeshare. ???

Exactly, I was going to mention the same thing. Very strange scenario to be honest and something which I don't understand.

[vectisman]

Are Lingus needed to use its own aircraft to ensure full utilisation of their LHR slots that were at risk if not fully used.
The Emerald/BA Dublin flights actually connect well to BA long haul. Do you really think they would not have examined the economics before operating the LGW to Dublin the route?

[Sotonsean]

Are Lingus needed to use its own aircraft to ensure full utilisation of their LHR slots that were at risk if not fully used.
the Emerald/BA Dublin flights actually connect well to BA long haul. Do you really think they would not have examined the economics before operating lgw the route?

I had completely overlooked the LHR slot situation.

I rest my case as having read your message I completely understand the reasons behind it.

[Flightrider]

The Emerald/BA Dublin flights actually connect well to BA long haul. Do you really think they would not have examined the economics before operating the LGW to Dublin the route?

I wouldn't think too deeply about it. They haven't. The reason why this is Emerald for BA (and not Aer Lingus) is that it's a last minute operation cobbled together to cover some BA Gatwick slots. There's nothing strategic about it whatsoever, and if this was part of some grand master plan as to how to serve hubs, this service would have been unveiled as an Aer Lingus franchise route when Aer Lingus itself withdrew, with whatever forward bookings between Dublin and Gatwick they had transferred to the new ATR service. As it is, all of those customers were re-routed and now they're starting a new twice-daily service at a month's lead time with no advance bookings.

​​​​​​​

[Cazza_fly]

Are Lingus needed to use its own aircraft to ensure full utilisation of their LHR slots that were at risk if not fully used.
The Emerald/BA Dublin flights actually connect well to BA long haul. Do you really think they would not have examined the economics before operating the LGW to Dublin the route?

This comment makes no sense.

No one is talking about Aer Lingus using its own aircraft to LHR. We're talking about EI Regional / Emerald Airlines branded planes, clearly with spare availability/capacity for running flights for BA in EI branding. It could have simply been EI Regional operating these flights with a BA codeshare. That's the point we're saying. Why this route had to be any different to others where this happens, we were not sure.

However, Flightrider's comment probably answers it better. So technically confirmed as a slot sitter route, where its pretty cheap to operate and on a cheaper aircraft within the IAG fleet, as well having inside figures of some proven route demand. Presumably, LGW say that BA must use their own flight code as the main operator to satisfy the slot use requirements, regardless of being an IAG airline?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Aer Lingus would have no shortage of takers if they needed to lease some LHR slots out for a few seasons, there's no need to drop LGW for that surely? LGW-DUB with BA was relatively weak, a B737-500 route from memory, dropped when they were retired. Longevity would be a BA painted ATR, but I suspect not.

[vectisman]

It is ACL not London Gatwick that are responsible for slot use.

[Flightrider]

Longevity would be a BA painted ATR, but I suspect not.

There is a degree of historical irony in that suggestion, given that at one time, BA liveried ATRs of CityFlyer Express provided the only Gatwick-Dublin service. Ryanair then came along (1995) and Aer Lingus returned again. The BA service went ATR > RJ100 > 737 > dropped.

[vectisman]

Maybe BA Euroflyer may end up with LGW to Dublin in the long term. Who knows!?

[Rutan16]

Emerald aren’t an IAG carrier they are an independent business with franchise’s for Aer Lingus and Aer Lingus UK.
They have an ex Indonesian ATR due and they could easily leave that one Euro white and anonymous I suppose.

[MidlandsWanderer]

Presumably, LGW say that BA must use their own flight code as the main operator to satisfy the slot use requirements, regardless of being an IAG airline?

Not at all. Just lease the slots for a nominal sum and make sure that the carrier operates 80% is enough to satisfy ACL and BA

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Being reported elsewhere that China Eastern are adding a 2nd daily LGW-PVG for the summer peak, so 1x B77W LHR-PVG and 2x B77W out of Gatters. The 2nd daily LHR A332 seems to have been winter only, so no summer slots and a move to LGW it seems.

[Sotonsean]

I don't think a new service to Tiblisi has been mentioned here yet. The carrier is Georgian start-up Air Iveria. Fleet and frequency details not yet known.

Does anyone have an further information as regards to the above post?

Air Iveria have apparently obtained slots at LGW for 3 weekly flight's. Flights were supposed to commence on the 13 May 2024. Air Iveria are no longer listed on the London Gatwick Wikipedia page.

With no actual website and no further information made available since it was originally announced I wonder if it will actually happen.

According to sources online Air Iveria is supposed to be the new national carrier for Georgia 🇬🇪.

Georgia 🇬🇪 has had a lot of coverage in the mainstream press and travel media over the last few months and the destination has a lot to offer.

Hopefully this planned new route from Tbilisi to London Gatwick actually goes ahead at some point in the future.

Iveria btw is the ancient name for Georgia 🇬🇪

[Rutan16]

Does anyone have an further information as regards to the above post?

Air Iveria have apparently obtained slots at LGW for 3 weekly flight's. Flights were supposed to commence on the 13 May 2024. Air Iveria are no longer listed on the London Gatwick Wikipedia page.

With no actual website and no further information made available since it was originally announced I wonder if it will actually happen.

According to sources online Air Iveria is supposed to be the new national carrier for Georgia 🇬🇪.

Georgia 🇬🇪 has had a lot of coverage in the mainstream press and travel media over the last few months and the destination has a lot to offer.

Hopefully this planned new route from Tbilisi to London Gatwick actually goes ahead at some point in the future.

Iveria btw is the ancient name for Georgia 🇬🇪

Whilst the country and city of Tbilisi actually looks stunning and has a mass of history. Much most and all of the current aviation growth is premised on Russian sanction busting , just saying.

[BA318]

Does anyone have an further information as regards to the above post?

Air Iveria have apparently obtained slots at LGW for 3 weekly flight's. Flights were supposed to commence on the 13 May 2024. Air Iveria are no longer listed on the London Gatwick Wikipedia page.

With no actual website and no further information made available since it was originally announced I wonder if it will actually happen.

According to sources online Air Iveria is supposed to be the new national carrier for Georgia 🇬🇪.

Georgia 🇬🇪 has had a lot of coverage in the mainstream press and travel media over the last few months and the destination has a lot to offer.

Hopefully this planned new route from Tbilisi to London Gatwick actually goes ahead at some point in the future.

Iveria btw is the ancient name for Georgia 🇬🇪

Their website hasn’t been updated since this time last year. https://airiveria.com/en

I’m not optimistic.

[FlyGatwick]

...
I would guess that further long haul growth will come from India, China possibly Thai, and African carriers.

With Indigo having finally placed their long-rumoured widebody order for 30 A350-900s (plus a further 70 options) and following on from pre-Covid era media comments, London is likely to be among the first long-haul destinations the airline could (and IMHO very likely would) serve with a dedicated widebody fleet direct from Delhi, Mumbai and Bangalore, given the extremely tight slot situation at Heathrow and that as an LCC (of sorts) with a track record of profitability and prudent management of its finances Indigo IMO is unlikely to shell out crazy sums for Heathrow slots it would struggle to recoup given the type of passenger it would most likely attract as well as Heathrow's high airport user charges (reportedly up to twice Gatwick's), this should make Gatwick Indigo's prime target (in preference to Stansted provided Gatwick has slots that are workable for the airline) re the London area airport from which to launch direct flights to Delhi / Mumbai / Bangalore. However, this won't be an imminent prospect as the first of the airline's just ordered A350s are not due to arrive until 2027.

Interestingly, Norse UK's head of route planning has in a recent media interview stated that the airline's just announced Gatwick - Cape Town winter seasonal route was something his team was looking at for a long time, along with other potential (presumably winter seasonal as well) routes to other African destinations from Gatwick in Kenya and Tanzania. If anything concrete comes of this, among the routes most suited to a fly Norse operation in these countries from Gatwick are Mombasa and Zanzibar IMO. (In this connection, I still vaguely recall African Safari Airways / ASA, which I believe was a Swiss-owned, Kenyan-based charter airline doing Gatwick-Mombasa direct during the winter in the 1990s and possibly the early noughties with its own dedicated A310s featuring a zebra-striped tail fin.) Further related to this, could we potentially see BA [re]launch flights from Gatwick to Entebbe and Dar Es Salaam and potentially to Arusha / Kilimanjaro and Zanzibar (the latter perhaps as a competitive / retaliatory response to Norse should Norse decide to launch Zanzibar), maybe, Entebbe and Dar Es Salaam year-round and Arusha and / or Zanzibar winter seasonally?

Reverting to the topic of additional winter seasonal routes Norse could serve from Gatwick, both Gatwick-Durban and Gatwick-Colombo spring to mind.

At the opposite end of the scale, i.e., who is leaving Gatwick rather than coming to Gatwick, Business Traveller has just reported that Lufthansa has removed Gatwick-Frankfurt from its GDS inventory as of 1 July 2024. This doesn't surprise me at all given how many strikes either this airline or their main base and primary global hub at Frankfurt has had ever since the route's relaunch, with (in my past experience) crappy staff attitudes to match, especially when seated at the back of the plane which among all the big airlines I travelled with (incl. BA, Emirates, KLM and Air France) puts Lufthansa truly in a class of its own (and I'm not saying this in a positive sense). Taking all of these factors together, who in their right mind would still want to fly Lufthansa? I'm sure that when this is confirmed and the airline will be asked to give a reason for pulling its Gatwick-Frankfurt route, it'll do what it has always done "best": blame the Gulf carriers for all its (self-inflicted) woes (like it recently blamed the Gulf carriers for having cut the number of Far Eastern destinations it supposedly still serves from 14 pre-pandemic to only four post-pandemic). Let's hope they'll give the daily morning pair of Gatwick slots to their subsidiary Swiss to allow it to go double daily on their recently launched Gatwick-Zurich route to make it a proper feeder for their Zurich hub. I personally consider Swiss a.much better airline than Lufthansa and would expect them to succeed where Lufthansa failed provided it can secure the slots at Gatwick to make the Zurich route an efficient feeder for its global connections radiating from Zurich. Anyway, there will be no shortage of takers for the slots Lufthansa will be vacating at Gatwick.

[Wycombe]

With Indigo having finally placed their long-rumoured widebody order for 30 A350-900s (plus a further 70 options) and following on from pre-Covid era media comments, London is likely to be among the first long-haul destinations the airline could (and IMHO very likely would) serve with a dedicated widebody fleet direct from Delhi, Mumbai and Bangalore, given the extremely tight slot situation at Heathrow and that as an LCC (of sorts) with a track record of profitability and prudent management of its finances Indigo IMO is unlikely to shell out crazy sums for Heathrow slots it would struggle to recoup given the type of passenger it would most likely attract as well as Heathrow's high airport user charges (reportedly up to twice Gatwick's), this should make Gatwick Indigo's prime target (in preference to Stansted provided Gatwick has slots that are workable for the airline) re the London area airport from which to launch direct flights to Delhi / Mumbai / Bangalore. However, this won't be an imminent prospect as the first of the airline's just ordered A350s are not due to arrive until 2027.

I took an internal flight in India (Udaipur-Delhi) with IndiGo at the end of last month, a very slick/impressive operation I have to say.

[willy wombat]

Just by the by, African Safari go way back further than the 1990s. I recall them operating a Britannia with the zebra striped tail from LGW in the 1970s.

[FlyGatwick]

I'd imagine that there is a reasonable chance of EK increasing LGW to 4 a day, but I reckon the additional rotation is more likely to be flown with the 77W, similar to the recently added LHR flight. STN is also being rumoured to go to 3 daily later this year. So they seem to be doing well in the London market :)

Attended the hearing of the Planning Inspectorate (PINS) on Thursday (2 May 2024) re Gatwick's application to bring its current standby / emergency runway into routine use to voice my support as an interested party living on the airport's doorstep in Crawley and listened with great interest to what Richard Jewesbury, Emirates country manager for the UK (and the Republic of Ireland as well I believe) had to say. It was very encouraging to hear him say that Emirates really values its long-standing business relationship with Gatwick which started back in 1987 when it became the first airport in Europe to which Emirates flew, that Gatwick generates both very strong and profitable outbound and inbound traffic flows, that Emirates wants more Gatwick slots, that they think the airport's proposal re its standby runway is a very smart way of making the best use of its existing facilities and that therefore they fully support it.

Nice to see a highly regarded long-haul airline recognise the value of Gatwick as a distinct catchment in its own right rather than a temporary Heathrow overflow and to fully commit to the airport for the long term. (Emirates have replicated this thinking at Stansted as well b.t.w., where its president Tim Clark has gone on record during a recent aviation industry get-together, saying that there is room for a third daily Emirates service at Stansted.) This not only makes me think that Emirates is going to revisit its pre pandemic plan to add a fourth daily Gatwick-Dubai frequency sooner rather than later, but my hope is also that more long-haul airlines will eventually come round to Emirates' point of view re Gatwick's value as a destination / point-of-origin in its own right.

IMHO, in addition to Qatar Airways, Air India is one of the airlines best-placed - over the medium to long term - to adopt Emirates' thinking on Gatwick, provided that they succeed in making India a hub for global air travel (centred on Delhi, Mumbai and Bengaluru) and adopt the MEB3 super connector model so successfully pioneered by Emirates over the past 15 years or so. Given that Singapore Airlines is slated to own 25.1% of Air India upon completion of the integration of Air India, Air India Express and Vistara (the Indian FSC originally established as a JV between the Tata group, the Indian tea to steel conglomerate whose founding family were the original owners of Air India and re-aqcuired the airline from the Indian government two years ago, and Singapore Airlines), my hope is also that Air India and Singapore Airlines will eventually integrate their operations along the lines of Air France - KLM, with Singapore Airlines not only contributing its Changi hub as the combined Air India - Singapore Airlines' fourth global hub, but also adopting Emirates' thinking on Gatwick.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

"Gatwick as a catchment area in it's own right". What he means is that Emirates, as a quite exceptional carrier, can succeed where others fail. They can succesfully serve London from LHR, LGW and STN whereas most airlines cannot and should not even try. You scoffed at Lufthansa attempting to do this and blamed the carrier when in fact, it's a function of the market. Same goes for Aer Lingus, although I was surprised myself at that one. Delta run LGW-JFK on decades old B767s and LHR-JFK on factory new A339s with Delta One. That's a good example of the "Gatwick catchment area" vs. LHR waiting room, it's a relatively inferior offering. The growth in long haul with the Chinese carriers and Ethiopian is great BUT would up sticks and move to LHR tomorrow if they could get slots. As would Air Mauritius if they can get more slots, they didn't sell their LHR slots and given their cash situation, that's interesting.

Dedicated LGW long haul is BA, Norse, TUI, Emirates, Qatar and Icelandair. The rest would move out entirely if the market allowed them LHR access. Air India at LGW is a country mile from their own catchment area in London.

[VickersVicount]

"Gatwick as a catchment area in it's own right". What he means is that Emirates, as a quite exceptional carrier, can succeed where others fail. They can succesfully serve London from LHR, LGW and STN whereas most airlines cannot and should not even try. You scoffed at Lufthansa attempting to do this and blamed the carrier when in fact, it's a function of the market. Same goes for Aer Lingus, although I was surprised myself at that one. Delta run LGW-JFK on decades old B767s and LHR-JFK on factory new A339s with Delta One. That's a good example of the "Gatwick catchment area" vs. LHR waiting room, it's a relatively inferior offering. The growth in long haul with the Chinese carriers and Ethiopian is great BUT would up sticks and move to LHR tomorrow if they could get slots. As would Air Mauritius if they can get more slots, they didn't sell their LHR slots and given their cash situation, that's interesting.

Dedicated LGW long haul is BA, Norse, TUI, Emirates, Qatar and Icelandair. The rest would move out entirely if the market allowed them LHR access. Air India at LGW is a country mile from their own catchment area in London.
One might argue over Icelandair as ‘dedicated LGW long haul’

[FlyGatwick]

One might argue over Icelandair as ‘dedicated LGW long haul’

Correct. If Icelandair at LGW is classed as "long-haul", then the same criteria should also apply to Turkish Airlines at LGW.

[FlyGatwick]

"Gatwick as a catchment area in it's own right". What he means is that Emirates, as a quite exceptional carrier, can succeed where others fail. They can succesfully serve London from LHR, LGW and STN whereas most airlines cannot and should not even try. You scoffed at Lufthansa attempting to do this and blamed the carrier when in fact, it's a function of the market. Same goes for Aer Lingus, although I was surprised myself at that one. Delta run LGW-JFK on decades old B767s and LHR-JFK on factory new A339s with Delta One. That's a good example of the "Gatwick catchment area" vs. LHR waiting room, it's a relatively inferior offering. The growth in long haul with the Chinese carriers and Ethiopian is great BUT would up sticks and move to LHR tomorrow if they could get slots. As would Air Mauritius if they can get more slots, they didn't sell their LHR slots and given their cash situation, that's interesting.

Dedicated LGW long haul is BA, Norse, TUI, Emirates, Qatar and Icelandair. The rest would move out entirely if the market allowed them LHR access. Air India at LGW is a country mile from their own catchment area in London.

I stand by what I said in one of my earlier contributions re Lufthansa being largely to blame for not succeeding to make LGW-FRA work for them. Not only did LH not have to face any direct LCC competitor (discounting Ryanair's STN-HHN service as STN is completely outside the Gatwick catchment area - essentially all of Sussex and Kent, east Surrey, the parts of Hants adjoining West Sussex (essentially Portsmouth) and south London (essentially Croydon) and HHN is actually closer to Luxembourg than to Frankfurt), there is also no competition from Eurostar (which, even if there was, would be irrelevant for the Gatwick catchment since Eurostar ditched Ashford as an en route pick-up / drop-off point in favour of Ebbsfleet). Had LH chosen different departure and arrival times at LGW which would have enabled people at either end of the route to make a day-return trip to either Frankfurt or London and their respective surroundings, the outcome could have been different as this would have been of interest to higher yield business traffic, for both business travellers living in LGW's catchment and those headed for it. However, an 11:15 am LGW departure gets you into FRA around 2 pm local time, meaning you have to head back to FRA airport barely two hours after you reached! Even in the opposite direction, for FRA-based day trippers, a 10:30 am arrival into LGW and a 5:45 pm (or thereabouts) LGW departure time is too short for a day-return. This left LH only with connecting passengers, a generally lower yielding market (compared with P2P) on LGW-FRA, an extremely competitive market, where - as far as direct competition at LGW is concerned, LH faced stiff competition from EK, QR and TK, all of which arguably have a better hard and soft product than LH, especially at the back of the plane, with EK and TK also having higher frequencies ex-LGW than LH (3 flights per day and up to 4 flights per day, respectively, vs. only 2 flights per day). As well, the final destinations of most of the FSC one-stop connections for people flying out of or into LGW tend to be in Asia - especially the Indian subcontinent and the Far East - where (apart from TK in India itself), EK / QR / TK either fly to far more places or have many more flights than LH). Given these indisputable facts, what did LH expect? How could they even think that their LGW-FRA service would not end in failure?

Re Delta's old 767s on LGW-JFK vs. their state-of-the-art 339s (and 359s) at LHR (with superior on-board products). True. But DL also fly the same, decades-old, clapped-out 767s on many of their other European routes, incl. routes serving capital cities with only one airport. Even United fly decades-old, clapped-out 767s on many of their prime TATL routes serving LHR! While these may have better on-board products than those 767s DL use to serve LGW and other secondary, seasonal European routes, they're still old, obsolete aircraft nonetheless, a bit like putting lipstick on a pig to disguise the fact that it is a pig.

Lastly, re LGW being miles from Air India's [west] London catchment around LHR, you are mistaken if you think that Indians and people of Indian origin in the UK only live around LHR despite their heavy concentration in the area. In fact, many Indian care home and IT workers in the UK actually work and live in LGW's catchment as well; in the case of IT workers, many of these people are in Crawley itself and nearby Horsham, working for companies like Thales and Royal Sun Alliance, respectively, for example; in the case of care home workers, many of these people are scattered across the entire Gatwick Diamond business region stretching from Brighton in the south to Croydon in the north and also stretching from the Portsmouth area in the west to the Eastbourne area in the east along the South Coast. And this is before even factoring in the region's diaspora (those settled in the area served by LGW for several generations). What this means in the context of AI's current four LGW routes serving Ahmedabad, Amritsar, Goa and Kochi for example is that only as far as Amritsar in the northwestern Indian state of Punjab is concerned, almost all users actually live in LHR's catchment; re Ahmedabad, while there are many people in LHR's catchment who originally came to the UK from the western Indian state of Gujarat (or whose descendants had migrated from there to East Africa during the colonial era before coming to the UK as well), there are also many people from this region of India in LGW's catchnent; as far as Kochi in the southwestern Indian state of Kerala is concerned, many more people using this service actually work and live in LGW's catchment than LHR's catchment, with many among them being care home workers, so LGW - rather than LHR - being the ideal airport for this route in particular; Goa, by comparison, doesn't have a big diaspora, especially in the Southeast (there is a bigger Goan community in the Midlands), with AI's LGW-GOX route primarily used by price-sensitive Brits for whom the London area airport is not the main consideration. Even AI's originally planned but now postponed LGW-BLR route, while unlike the other, more leisure- / VFR-focused LGW routes being more business-focused, will be well patronised if served from LGW rather than LHR given the large number of IT workers in LGW's catchment, many of whom are from Bengaluru, India's primary IT capital, or are settled there. Therefore, if there is an airline ideally suited to follow in Emirates' footsteps, i.e., adopting the MEB3 super connector global hub-and-spoke business model, incl. serving multiple London area airports, Air India must surely be a prime candidate for this role.

[Sotonsean]

Flygatwick

I do appreciate your efforts, enthusiasm and input regarding London Gatwick Airport. You make some interesting points.

But if I could just make these polite remarks.

Your posts would be far easier to read and much more informative if your paragraphs weren't so long. Sentences lasting forever before a full stop. I give up reading the entirety of your posts as they come across as totally disconbobulated.

You have a lot of enthusiasm, which is obvious from your posts but please make them more reader friendly 😀

[pabely]

My comments to FlyGatwick.
1. LH - How many slots do you think are now available at LGW? None for a full day in Germany. Easyjet have tried all sorts of German cities, they do not make good money.
2. AI - How you been to Airports in India? They are nothing in comparison to ME3 carriers. Once India builds some new Airports, which they will do then they can look to some of those transit markets. I suspect if they get more slots at LHR, then they will transfer. The AI operation at LHR is well established and will always be the primary end game if slots become available. They are part of the Star Alliance so will want to be closer to UA, LH & TK at LHR.

[FlyGatwick]

My comments to FlyGatwick.
1. LH - How many slots do you think are now available at LGW? None for a full day in Germany. Easyjet have tried all sorts of German cities, they do not make good money.
2. AI - How you been to Airports in India? They are nothing in comparison to ME3 carriers. Once India builds some new Airports, which they will do then they can look to some of those transit markets. I suspect if they get more slots at LHR, then they will transfer. The AI operation at LHR is well established and will always be the primary end game if slots become available. They are part of the Star Alliance so will want to be closer to UA, LH & TK at LHR.

I agree with you on LGW slot availability and UK-Germany flights (with the exception of certain LCY flights) being traditionally low-yield and largely unprofitable in their own right. Nonetheless, LH should have known that with the slots they managed to get at LGW for their FRA flights, this was unlikely to be successful.

As far as the state of Indian airports vis-à-vis their counterparts in the Gulf is concerned, it depends to which airport you specifically refer. The standards vary widely. The one I have experienced at Bengaluru (Kempegowda Airport) - especially the new Terminal 2 - is world-class. In fact, in some aspects it's arguably ahead of DXB and not very far behind Singapore Changi. And then there is the brand-new airport at Navi Mumbai (New Bombay), which is set to open its doors later this year or early next. It'll be a two-runway airport from the start, and therefore will lend itself as a hub (unlike the current BOM airport, which like LGW is operated as a single-runway airport).

Air India's future at LGW will depend not only on LHR slot availability, but what their ultimate strategy pending a successful turnaround of the airline will be, i.e., whether they'll adopt the MEB3 global super connector business model. If that's the case, even though their main focus will always be on LHR, It'll actually make sense to link their Indian hubs to multiple London area airports, just like EK and QR do. The fact that AI are part of the Star Alliance should IMO not be an obstacle here. Further in this context, I actually disagree with you that being closer to its Star Alliance partners at LHR is an end for AI in itself, without taking into consideration whether the connections these partners can offer at LHR are actually sensible. If AI wants to enable its passengers to connect seamless to and from destinations in Germany to which it doesn't fly with its own metal, it will surely be far more efficient to do this via the LH hubs in FRA and MUC as connecting to / from Germany at LHR involves significant backtracking. And as far as facilitating TATL connections at LHR via AI's Star partners UA and AC is concerned, although these don't involve backtracking unlike in the case of Germany, encouraging AI passengers to transfer at LHR to / from UA and AC actually results in a revenue loss for AI's non-stop India-US and India-Canada flights, undermining the profitability of these ultra long-haul services - reportedly, AI's most profitable routes. This is therefore not in AI's interest (with the same applying to AI passengers changing at FRA or MUC onto LH / UA / AC TATL flights). Lastly, there is also the geopolitical factor impeding closer collaboration between AI and TK (apart from transferring between AI and TK flights at LHR involving even more backtracking than transferring between AI and LH flights at LHR, and TK's fast-growing IST hub being viewed with the same suspicion as EK's and QR's respective hubs at DXB and DOH by AI's top managenent). Turkey has traditionally been viewed in India as a friend of Pakistan, India's long-standing rival and foe. This is a widely held view amogst Indians, even at board level, and let's not forget in this context that AI's ultimate owners, the Tatas, are after all born and have lived in India for all of their lives despite their carefully crafted, highly polished cosmopolitan appearance. As well in this context, we need to remember that the current AI CEO, New Zealand national, ex-Scoot CEO Campbell Wilson, only got this role after his short-lived predecessor, a former TK CEO who is a Turkish national (and whose name I can't remember now) resigned in the face of strong public opposition in India to what was widely viewed as the appointment of a national of an unfriendly country, who had also gone on record previously as supporting his country's endorsement of the official Pakistani position on Kashmir, to the top job of a company many Indians regard as one of the jewels in their industrial crown.

[FlyGatwick]

This has been commented on above. To be honest the Air Peace CEO has an agenda and is always shouting off about something.

Happened to see Air Peace use one of its 777-300s (one of a pair of former Singapore Airlines examples) depart Gatwick today while I was waiting for my bus to take me into Crawley from the South Terminal local bus stop 11:40-ish as takeoffs at the time were in an easterly direction over the railway tracks.

As much as I dislike the antics of the Air Peace CEO / chairman / founder / owner, the airline's livery looks absolutely stunning, especially on the 777-300. IMHO, easily the best livery of any airline currently operating at Gatwick.