Gatwick-3

[tubby linton]

Would anyone know the planned start date for the works for the northern runway project?

[DaveReidUK]

"The Applicant has not yet set a timetable for this project."

Gatwick Airport Northern Runway | National Infrastructure Planning (planninginspectorate.gov.uk) (https://infrastructure.planninginspectorate.gov.uk/projects/south-east/gatwick-airport-northern-runway/)

[c52]

The current consultation ends on December 1st. Northern Runway and our Future Plans | Gatwick Airport LGW (https://www.gatwickairport.com/business-community/future-plans/)

So not anytime soon is the answer, I suppose. If at all.

[c52]

Reading the consultation document - because I really ought to contribute as a user and neighbour of the airport - the Secretary of State's decision is scheduled for 2024, with 2029 as a possible in-service date.

[Seljuk22]

Looking at the online flight schedule, Emirates brings back EK09/10 from 27th January with daily B77W.
https://www.emirates.com/de/german/book/flight-schedules/results/dxb/lgw/from-dubai-to-london-gatwick/220124/220201/

[Jn14:6]

Can anyone confirm if the 'night before' check in is open for BA ops?
Thanks.

[772]

no it isn’t

[Jn14:6]

Thanks 772!

[JW95]

Has the inaugural LGW-BKK been delayed? IIR, I think this was scheduled for the 16th, but no flight appears to be running on that day?

[richardwpprn]

Could BA use the Emirates A380 Gates for their A380, or are there technical incompatability issues?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

All gates are common usage at LGW, there's no reason BA can't use the A380 gate unless, perhaps Emirates part funded the upgrade and get first refusal?

[pabely]

JW95

There booking engine shows it arrives LGW 20:15 so assume out back to BKK next day.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Dumb question. ("Why are we not surprised?")

Given the rules on runway over runs and undershoots, is the idea to use 26R/08L more a good idea? My first visit to LGW was the day in 1993 when Continental B747 nearly hit the South Terminal, we heard the go-around from the viewing deck, and my one landing on 26R it caught me by surprise that we flew over the old Pier 1. Isn't that sort of layout frowned upon in 2021 aviation safety? The new Pier 1 actually stares down what will be an active runway.

Thoughts?

[Vokes55]

What’s to be frowned upon? Aside from the fact that the runway is used somewhat regularly at nights anyway, all obstructions are taken into account in performance calculations, which are themselves based on worst case scenarios + fat.

I’d imagine it would only be used for 26R departures and 08L arrivals anyway. Westerlies is fairly straight forward, Easterlies could be a bit more difficult logistically, hence capacity won’t be increased to the level of a normal two runway airport.

[True Blue]

BA has announced it's Lgw operations for S22 this morning. Up to 35 routes and 17 aircraft.

[Wycombe]

.....initially (according to the press release) to be operated by BA mainline until the new offshoot "BA Euroflyer" has it's AOC, "later in 2022"

[VickersVicount]

no great surprises in route announcements BAef Ex LGW… except maybe ATH?

[VickersVicount]

Could BA use the Emirates A380 Gates for their A380, or are there technical incompatability issues?
Why would BA want a gate for their A380… what route did you have in mind? Unless all the LAS MCO LHR shift condensed back at LGW.

[vectisman]

BA short haul aircraft will be 18 based aircraft by May 2022 according to their press release. Interestingly a similar number of A321 aircraft remain in storage, although they may be too large for some routes.
BA long haul next Summer at Gatwick could be 11 or 12 frames next Summer too. So once again a decent presence at Gatwick. South Terminal hopefully be up and running. I believe discussions about this are proceeding. Be good
to use the BA lounges again!

[JW95]

This is brilliant news for LGW RE. BA EuroFlyer and a welcome return of based short haul to the airport after over 2 years away. Looks like a nice range of routes there too with MXP (presumably replacing BGY), MAD, ATH coming in as new additions for LGW, hopefully they will work well in tandem with the LHR services. I also note that JFK is scheduled to be reinstated from 28th May next year and is now bookable on BA, so no doubt this will serve up as interesting competition for JetBlue on the route. With this news, no doubt South Terminal is being readied for a reopening? Congratulations to both BA and LGW and I hope that this will mark the return of more airlines and routes to Gatwick.

[Flightrider]

There is actually a bit of a sea-change hidden within this announcement, I think. Of late, the mantra has been very much that whatever happens at Gatwick must not be allowed to impact on Heathrow - the only really duplicate routes have been domestics (predominantly for long-haul leisure feed) and Amsterdam (much the same). Adding Berlin and Madrid at Gatwick together with also continuing to serve some of the routes at Heathrow looks to be a relaxation of that policy if indeed it hasn't been taken out completely.

[brian_dromey]

There is actually a bit of a sea-change hidden within this announcement, I think. Of late, the mantra has been very much that whatever happens at Gatwick must not be allowed to impact on Heathrow - the only really duplicate routes have been domestics (predominantly for long-haul leisure feed) and Amsterdam (much the same). Adding Berlin and Madrid at Gatwick together with also continuing to serve some of the routes at Heathrow looks to be a relaxation of that policy if indeed it hasn't been taken out completely.

Interesting point of view, actually. MAD is obviously an IAG hub and BER seems to be a strong point of sale for BA - the E-190s have been shuttled through on the way to STN/MAN/SOU over the years. ATH in the summer is a no-brainer and was one of the first "long" routes for LCC's back in the day. Quite a number of 'leisure' flights remain at Heathrow, so that might be playing into the mix too.

In any case it looks like a decent summer schedule and one which should be able to stand on its own two feet - the destinations are mainly O&D, as you say.

[vectisman]

Yes I agree a decent initial schedule. Don't forget these routes are the initial network for next Summer. Over the next two or three years, I am sure it will expand and diversify some more.
It will be interesting how the Winter schedule will look. Maybe more city breaks, ski flights etc... and some charters. However, with contracts in place that
allow for the greater seasonality at Gatwick the offering should be more sustainable.
I am surprised at the omission of Edinburgh. It carried a few hundred thousand per year pre-covid and could still support twice daily frequency now.
Likewise, I am sure Gatwick -Jersey in addition to the Heathrow service could do well as a summer seasonal.
However, I expect initial fleet size has meant some routes may have to wait. There may be more more domestics further down the line as demand recovers. The original plan was to increase base size by 3 aircraft a year for several years after 2022.
As the feet expands there may be more scope for route additions.
It would be a plus if the the new subsidiary is permitted to develop routes more independently of the mainline operation. Interesting times.

[JW95]

Agreed with the above comments that a lot of the 'new' short haul network essentially mirrors that of pre-covid, albeit with some nice additions like BER, ATH and MXP. How does the new network compare to pre-2019 in terms of based aircraft and routes? The noticeable route changes I see so far are that JER no longer features as does FCO, which is a shame, as this had been a route long served by BA at LGW, although I suppose VY are taking it over while BA consolidates this route to LHR. However, I note that it (FCO) is still featured on BA's timetable to/from LGW.

[VickersVicount]

I’ll predict ATH will be a one season wonder ex LGW.

[richardwpprn]

Why would BA want a gate for their A380… what route did you have in mind? Unless all the LAS MCO LHR shift condensed back at LGW.

What's BA's fattest LH route at LGW year round?

[True Blue]

I’ll predict ATH will be a one season wonder ex LGW.

So the route is not even on sale 24 hours yet and you are predicting failure. Perhaps it's in the waiting room to move back to Lhr!

[vectisman]

British Airways will reinstate Gatwick to New York next summer, initially as a Summer Seasonal. Gatwick to Orlando has also been been made twice daily from Gatwick for next Summer. If the
Heathrow Summer flight continues that will be 3 daily London to Orlando next Summer. However the thrice weekly summer seasonal Gatwick to Las Vegas I believe has been removed.
At the moment Summer 2022 is looking like BA Long Haul at Gatwick will need 12 based 777. This compares with 15 in Summer 2019. Still some way to go but a steady recovery from 2020 and 2021.

[vectisman]

So the route is not even on sale 24 hours yet and you are predicting failure. Perhaps it's in the waiting room to move back to Lhr!
True Blue, There will always be those who are reluctant to accept that BA and other airlines can be successful at Gatwick. I believe that after the pandemic and Heathrow determined
to raise charges, Gatwick will do quite well for itself in the next few years. Yes, Heathrow yields may be higher but that means higher fares too! We shall just have to wait and see.
I am pleased that BA (in all its forms) will have a meaningful presence back at Gatwick next Summer. Probably at least 12 based 777 and 18 short haul Airbus aircraft with more to come in future years.

[Hartington]

I flew LGW-ATH on BA something like 30 years ago and came back to LHR. Why did they drop they route?

[wallp]

Brilliant news. I’m so pleased to see a considerable BA presence returning to Gatwick, both long and short haul. It will be great to see the South Terminal back in action too

True Blue, There will always be those who are reluctant to accept that BA and other airlines can be successful at Gatwick. I believe that after the pandemic and Heathrow determined
to raise charges, Gatwick will do quite well for itself in the next few years. Yes, Heathrow yields may be higher but that means higher fares too! We shall just have to wait and see.
I am pleased that BA (in all its forms) will have a meaningful presence back at Gatwick next Summer. Probably at least 12 based 777 and 18 short haul Airbus aircraft with more to come in future years.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

True Blue, There will always be those who are reluctant to accept that BA and other airlines can be successful at Gatwick. I believe that after the pandemic and Heathrow determined
to raise charges, Gatwick will do quite well for itself in the next few years. Yes, Heathrow yields may be higher but that means higher fares too! We shall just have to wait and see.
I am pleased that BA (in all its forms) will have a meaningful presence back at Gatwick next Summer. Probably at least 12 based 777 and 18 short haul Airbus aircraft with more to come in future years.
Balance sheets are gutted and debt is growning alarmingly, and no one knows what the post COVID world will look like, anyone who says they do is lying. So the magic dartboard of route planning will be deployed once more, some will hit, some will miss. Until we get a view on business travel bounceback the LHR/LGW split will be less clear cut than before. It also astonishes me that EDI is missing off the list, and it's hard to suggest profits are so fat at LGW that BA staff had to take yet another kick over wages. There'll be 1-2 years of post COVID settling in before the new world is bedded in and we'll know what works where. But LGW is like LHR in that their balance sheet is in tatters, so they can't afford to cut user charges by much, if at all.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I flew LGW-ATH on BA something like 30 years ago and came back to LHR. Why did they drop they route?
Because LGW-ATH cannibalised LHR-ATH, the same for many duplicated routes like JFK, MIA. Latterly only a few like GLA/EDI/AMS and JFK/LAS/YYZ operated over both, with LGW the overspill for the long haul trio there.

[772]

BA using the 380 from LGW wouldn’t make sense. Especially from an IROPs point of view

[BA318]

Balance sheets are gutted and debt is growning alarmingly, and no one knows what the post COVID world will look like, anyone who says they do is lying. So the magic dartboard of route planning will be deployed once more, some will hit, some will miss. Until we get a view on business travel bounceback the LHR/LGW split will be less clear cut than before. It also astonishes me that EDI is missing off the list, and it's hard to suggest profits are so fat at LGW that BA staff had to take yet another kick over wages. There'll be 1-2 years of post COVID settling in before the new world is bedded in and we'll know what works where. But LGW is like LHR in that their balance sheet is in tatters, so they can't afford to cut user charges by much, if at all.

Random and probably wrong thought but could the lack of domestics and poor times on some other routes be lining up for some kind of deal with Easyjet - either partnership or buy out. Competition concerns are reduced if they are not competing already on those domestic routes and if they have to give up slots on the other competing routes they give up the unattractive ones like ALC-LGW at 2:30am.

[VickersVicount]

lining up for some kind of deal with Easyjet - either partnership or buy out.
Random indeed. I can see no connection or short term likelihood.

[BA318]

Random indeed. I can see no connection or short term likelihood.

Easyjet has been rumoured to be fancied by several groups. The synergies between BA and Easy would be huge.

BA and Easy also recently agreed the slot leasing deal too rather than let Wizz or Ryanair.

[vectisman]

I very much doubt any move towards an acquisition. The regulators for one would have a field day! The primary reason for the slot leasing deal is that both airlines have an interest in keeping Ryanair and Wizzair from expanding at Gatwick. As the BA short haul and probably the long haul fleet expands the slots will be returned.

[SWBKCB]

No more London Airways.

Until "Easyjet Regional" was spun off :rolleyes:

[Downwind_Left]

Because LGW-ATH cannibalised LHR-ATH, the same for many duplicated routes like JFK, MIA. Latterly only a few like GLA/EDI/AMS and JFK/LAS/YYZ operated over both, with LGW the overspill for the long haul trio there.

I think the historic BA thinking that LHR=Business and LGW=Bucket and Spade is consigned to the pages of history. It’s apparent now that a lot of leisure routes can be just as profitable as a business route, especially when business travel demand is reduced.

There is already a lot of overlap between LHR and LCY on many routes. Since it looks like LGW will be initially at least run by LCY management, they will be well aware that high demand routes running from 2 or 3 of the BA London airports should be able to co-exist without being detrimental to each other.

Looks like Amsterdam, Berlin, Faro, Glasgow, Ibiza, Malaga, Milan, Nice, Palma and Santorini will be served from all 3 airports. With many other cities being served from 2 of the 3. (I note Milan is split across LIN (LCY/LHR) and MXP (LGW/LHR))

[Vokes55]

Athens and to a lesser extent Milan (ex-LTN but Wizzair base and previously applied for slots MXP-LGW) are just BA dumping low cost capacity into Wizzair markets. I’d imagine they’ll survive as long as Wizzair keeps the routes open.

I’d be interested to see if BA start LGW-BKK. They’ve just canned LHR-BKK for Summer 22. Now Scoot have entered the market it would be not unlike BA to try to squeeze out low cost competition. They’d also be able to use the moving of low yielding O&D long haul routes as pawns in their fees dispute with Heathrow.

[adfly]

To get an idea of how the planned 18 aircraft will be utilised I've had a quick look through the schedule for the 2nd week of July. Appears to be the following:

Alicante - 12 weekly
Amsterdam - 16 weekly
Antalya - 7 weekly
Athens - 5 weekly
Bari - 6 weekly
Berlin - 7 weekly
Bordeaux - 13 weekly
Cagliari - 7 weekly
Catania - 6 weekly
Dalaman - 9 weekly
Dubrovnik - 7 weekly
Faro - 13 weekly
Glasgow - 7 weekly (LHR W pattern)
Heraklion - 3 weekly
Ibiza - 9 weekly
Kos - 2 weekly
Lanzarote - 6 weekly
Larnaca - 2 weekly
Las Palmas - 2 weekly
Madrid - 7 weekly
Mahon - 6 weekly
Malaga - 14 weekly
Malta - 8 weekly
Manchester - 7 weekly (LHR W pattern)
Marrakech - 7 weekly
Milan Malpensa - 7 weekly
Nice - 15 weekly
Palma - 6 weekly
Paphos - 7 weekly
Rhodes - 1 weekly
Santorini - 4 weekly
Seville - 6 weekly
Tenerife - 8 weekly
Thessaloniki - 4 weekly
Turin - 6 weekly
Venice - 8 weekly
Verona - 7 weekly

[jensdad]

Thessaloniki - 4 weekly
Turin - 6 weekly

Great work, adfly! You wouldn't know if Tirana is staying at Heathrow do you?

[mariofly12]

Great work, adfly! You wouldn't know if Tirana is staying at Heathrow do you?

It is indeed, double daily

[jensdad]

It is indeed, double daily
Thanks mariofly12.

[tubby linton]

I believe that the main runway is to be resurfaced in 2022, does anybody know when this is to commence?

[davidjohnson6]

1st flight of SkyAlps/Luxwing to Bolzano on 15-Dec was cancelled. Flights on 18-Dec, and 22-Dec have also been cancelled. 1st flight seems to be on sale for 25-Dec which is perhaps dubious... 29-Dec seems like a more definite date for a flight to happen. I'm wondering if ticket sales have been a little disappointing.

Update - SkyAlps say there has been some misunderstanding with the "UK Aviation Office", presumably the CAA, and UK flights are not currently permitted. I wonder what this could be (or if it is BS !), if flights with a Malta/EU-based carrier from Bolzano in Italy to Brussels, Dusseldorf and Rotterdam have already started. Selling package holidays without posting a bond to the CAA ?

[JW95]

Athens and to a lesser extent Milan (ex-LTN but Wizzair base and previously applied for slots MXP-LGW) are just BA dumping low cost capacity into Wizzair markets. I’d imagine they’ll survive as long as Wizzair keeps the routes open.

I’d be interested to see if BA start LGW-BKK. They’ve just canned LHR-BKK for Summer 22. Now Scoot have entered the market it would be not unlike BA to try to squeeze out low cost competition. They’d also be able to use the moving of low yielding O&D long haul routes as pawns in their fees dispute with Heathrow.

So am I. Perhaps the decision to move BKK from LHR to LGW will largely depend on how successful Scoot is on the same route that they've just launched. LHR-BKK is pretty well covered with Eva and Thai year-round vs BA's now seasonal service. I reckon we will find out more once Scoot reinstate LGW again for the summer season and whether or not the route is working well for them, in which case BA may well be tempted to enter LGW with their own service to BKK.

[Buster the Bear]

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/wizz-air-acquires-norwegian-air-slots-for-gatwick-expansion

[vectisman]

Emirates increases Gatwick to Dubai to twice daily A380 from March 27th 2022. Hopefully the third daily service will be reinstated before
the end of 2022.

[brian_dromey]

So am I. Perhaps the decision to move BKK from LHR to LGW will largely depend on how successful Scoot is on the same route that they've just launched. LHR-BKK is pretty well covered with Eva and Thai year-round vs BA's now seasonal service. I reckon we will find out more once Scoot reinstate LGW again for the summer season and whether or not the route is working well for them, in which case BA may well be tempted to enter LGW with their own service to BKK.
BKK has been a 3-class 777 for many years at Heathrow, leading to speculation its a fairly low yield route for them. Certainly the rate of op-ups from World Traveller Plus, the speed with which they dropped much of their Asian network and the slow return adds to this idea. The dense LGW 777s would probably be a decent fit for the route. On the other hand Thailand is taking a cautious approach to foreign visitors. So if it was marginal for BA in 2019 I can see why it might struggle now.

[True Blue]

So Wizzair now has about 12 new routes on sale on their site now from Lgw.

[vectisman]

I wonder if the fact that Wizzair has just gained another 15 daily slot pairs at Gatwick for Summer 2022(Bought from Norwegian) will further influence the development
of Euroflyer at Gatwick. BA ,and indeed Easyjet for that matter, will not want then to become too established. Hence the BA and easyjet slot lease deal for Summer 2022.
I can see BA responding by continuing to expand the Gatwick short haul fleet and using those slots. Also some rumours that Bangkok could be a BA long haul Gatwick route in the medium to long term.
It has been cancelled from Heathrow until at least next October. It is a lower yield mainly point to point route, maybe better suited to Gatwick. I expect they will be seeing how the new Scoot Gatwick to Bangkok route works out.
Of course everything depending on the public health situation.
Wizzair just announced 14 new routes to and from London Gatwick for Summer 2022. Some with new based aircraft others from overseas bases.
Obviously keen to use all those newly acquired slots. Be interesting how BA and easyjet respond.
On the plus side South Terminal will definitely need to be operation to cope with increased demand.
IAG airlines will want to be back in their South Terminal home as will others.
Rumours say plans are underway for a staggered re-opening in 2022.

[Flightrider]

BKK would be an interesting move for BA with the "densified" 777s at Gatwick, if indeed they have crew rest to facilitate it.

South Terminal re-opening will be a genuine logistical challenge. With very limited parts of the building open, it's already clear if you spend more than about 10 minutes in there that the rat population has firmly taken up residence. I shudder to think how many systems and baggage belt failures that they'll see upon re-opening given everything that must be being nibbled and chewed on a daily basis.

[vectisman]

I am certain it is a challenge they will have the capacity to meet. they will need the terminal next Summer. I believe plans are in hand
As I said it would be a gradual re-opening. There will be a full maintenance programme too.

[gdiddy]

So from next Summer Wizz will have these routes operating from Gatwick:

Austria
Vienna - Daily *
Bulgaria
Sofia - Daily (3x Daily @LTN)
Cyprus
Larnaca - Daily (Daily @LTN)
Greece
Athens - Daily *
Chania (Crete) - 4x Weekly
Mykonos - 4x Weekly
Hungary
Budapest - Daily (3x Daily @LTN)
Israel
Tel Aviv - Daily (5x Weekly @LTN)
Italy
Bari - 2x Weekly *
Catania (Sicily) - 3x Weekly *
Milan MXP - Daily *
Naples - 4x Weekly *
Rome FCO - Daily *
Montenegro
Podgorica - 4x Weekly
Poland
Krakow - Daily (2x Daily @LTN)
Portugal
Faro - Daily *
Madeira - 2x Weekly
Romania
Bucharest OTP - Daily (3x Daily @LTN & 3x Weekly @SEN)
Spain
Malaga - 2x Daily (Daily @LTN)
Lanzorote - 3x Weekly *
Palma de Mallorca - Daily (Daily @LTN)
Tenerife - 5x Weekly (5x Weekly @LTN)

* = Routes moved from Luton

[pabely]

Bucharest OTP - Daily (3x Daily @LTN & Daily @SEN)
Don't think SEN was ever daily and looking at the timing I would bet it will operate from LGW!

[gdiddy]

Don't think SEN was ever daily and looking at the timing I would bet it will operate from LGW!
I stand corrected, Southend is scheduled for Three weekly flights to Bucharest next summer, operating on a Monday, Wednesday and Friday.

The flight times are near identical to Gatwick, operating within about 15-20 mins of each other.

[772]

Sorry for the random question but does anyone remember, maybe 20 years ago now, a staff car park that was located on the perimeter road at the 26L end of the runway right under the approach? Or am I miss remembering?

[JW95]

Happy new year to you all- I hope the year ahead will be a positive one for all at LGW as it continues to recover :)

Got a question RE. BA long haul at LGW. To my knowledge, BA haven't publicly decided what will eventually replace the LGW-based 772s. These have of course recently been refurbished and are expected to stay on for quite some time yet. However, there will come a point where these will need replacing (whether with a new order or LHR hand-me-downs is anyone's guess at the moment). What does everyone think? Perhaps BA will standardise the LHR fleet with a mix of 787-9/10 and Airbus A350-1000, A380, reconfigure the 777Ws to match the LGW-spec and send them to Gatwick as more 787s/A350s are delivered? Or could we see a new order of entirely A350-900s or 787-10s destined for LGW? My guess is BA would prefer to standardise their LGW long haul ops with just one aircraft (just as currently with the 772s). Will be interesting to see what they decide, now that they've committed to staying (and hopefully growing!) at LGW.

[CabinCrewe]

I suspect hand me downs as-per.
Any ‘newer’ 777s to LGW or some of the oldest 787s at a push.
I cannot honestly see a brand new subfleet order exclusively for LGW.
Thats assuming LGW longhaul survives (really) long term… I have my doubts.

[772]

I suspect hand me downs as-per.
Any ‘newer’ 777s to LGW or some of the oldest 787s at a push.
I cannot honestly see a brand new subfleet order exclusively for LGW.
Thats assuming LGW longhaul survives (really) long term… I have my doubts.

why the doubts over BA LGW longhaul in the long term?

the current 777s, refreshed and densified in 2018/19 are due to leave the fleet in or close to 2029

be interesting to see newer the time what the plan is. The 788s of course by then will be 15ish years old, 12 in the fleet, seems a pretty good fit age and fleet size wise but 2029 is so far away it’s too early and easy to assume anything now. Also the -8s are three class and have 35 J seats again a nice fit with the current 32J config. Only 214 seats though Vs the 330ish currently at LGW and the loads pre covid and of late suggest 214 is too low.

the 773s would need a reconfigure for LGW as no need for F and the J cabin is way too big for LGW

Nice to chew the fat but far to far away to have any idea

[brian_dromey]

The 777s at LGW were not hand-me-downs though, so I don't see why a replacement fleet would necessarily be? I would be fairly confident about the long-term prospects of long haul at Gatwick, it was relaunched fairly early in the pandemic and continues to fly. The 777-200ERs will need to be phased out over the next decade, the A350-900 is the probably the closest direct replacement so I would not bet against it. The 777-8 is closer in capacity, but its enormous range apparently makes it heavy, the 777-9 is larger again than the 777-300, so probably too much capacity.

The 788s seem to have a great place opening up new routes from LHR to the US and the -9s were useful in Asia, at least historically. So I dont think hand-me-downs will be forthcoming. Move the A380s round the M25? ;)

[vectisman]

I suspect hand me downs as-per.
Any ‘newer’ 777s to LGW or some of the oldest 787s at a push.
I cannot honestly see a brand new subfleet order exclusively for LGW.
Thats assuming LGW longhaul survives (really) long term… I have my doubts.

With the third runway even further away at London Heathrow plus the increasing costs to airlines using that airport I believe
BA long haul at Gatwick is secure. Indeed I can see further expansion. Long haul loads from Gatwick are up to 100% with the J and Premium economy cabins doing
very well.
In my opinion you are being a tad pessimistic.

[JW95]

The 777s at LGW were not hand-me-downs though, so I don't see why a replacement fleet would necessarily be? I would be fairly confident about the long-term prospects of long haul at Gatwick, it was relaunched fairly early in the pandemic and continues to fly. The 777-200ERs will need to be phased out over the next decade, the A350-900 is the probably the closest direct replacement so I would not bet against it. The 777-8 is closer in capacity, but its enormous range apparently makes it heavy, the 777-9 is larger again than the 777-300, so probably too much capacity.

The 788s seem to have a great place opening up new routes from LHR to the US and the -9s were useful in Asia, at least historically. So I dont think hand-me-downs will be forthcoming. Move the A380s round the M25? ;)

Very much agree with you. I think the A359 could make a good fit for LGW in terms of a direct 1-1 replacement for the 772s, although I'm unsure whether the A350-900 is able to accommodate the numbers as currently seen in the densified 772s? Surely BA wouldn't try to replicate 3-4-3 Y in the A359 as in the 777 currently, as that would be really pushing it. Alternatively, they could go with more 788s/9s, with the advantage that current 777 pilots at LGW could seamlessly transfer onto the replacement fleet with little/no training? Although as mentioned, capacity per aircraft would drop pretty drastically. They could do what VS have done with the leisure fleet and go with the A350-1000 with a densified configuration.

[JW95]

With the third runway even further away at London Heathrow plus the increasing costs to airlines using that airport I believe
BA long haul at Gatwick is secure. Indeed I can see further expansion. Long haul loads from Gatwick are up to 100% with the J and Premium economy cabins doing
very well.
In my opinion you are being a tad pessimistic.

Yes, I've no doubt we will see BA gradually expanding from LGW going forwards, particularly as leisure long haul is now bouncing back. BKK has already been rumoured and discussed elsewhere in the thread, and no doubt BA will be watching Scoot to see how successful they play out at LGW. With charges rising at LHR, I'm sure other long haul operators will be looking at LGW as a viable alternative.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

We all seem to be assuming costs won't be going up at LGW? The balance sheet is a car crash with LGW being the worst affected of our major airports. BA actually do have a good history of adding brand new long haul metal at LGW, G-VIIO/P/R have been LGW based since delivery for the most part and the later B744s arrived at LGW via Cambridge. There's a lot in flux at the mo, am not really convinced Scoot will do well, and BA may move BKK to LGW but on doing so will leave a fair amount of premium traffic to Thai at LHR. Every route BA moved in the past, the African and South American long hauls lost a % of premium traffic as they had a competitor who stayed at LHR. With Thai still in market, I wonder if BKK needs to stay put? Doha is a different beast as QR's LHR ops compliment BA's LGW service, they're partners.

[vectisman]

'We all seem to be assuming costs won't be going up at LGW? The balance sheet is a car crash with LGW being the worst affected of our major airports.'

I agree costs may rise at Gatwick, but it will remain a cheaper airport to operate from than Heathrow.
As leisure travel appears to be recovering faster than business travel, hopefully Gatwick is in a position to show
a positive recovery in Summer 2022.
Heathrow is also not without its balance sheet issues.

[Flying Wild]

So from next Summer Wizz will have these routes operating from Gatwick:

Austria
Vienna - Daily *
Bulgaria
Sofia - Daily (3x Daily @LTN)
Cyprus
Larnaca - Daily (Daily @LTN)
Greece
Athens - Daily *
Chania (Crete) - 4x Weekly
Mykonos - 4x Weekly
Hungary
Budapest - Daily (3x Daily @LTN)
Israel
Tel Aviv - Daily (5x Weekly @LTN)
Italy
Bari - 2x Weekly *
Catania (Sicily) - 3x Weekly *
Milan MXP - Daily *
Naples - 4x Weekly *
Rome FCO - Daily *
Montenegro
Podgorica - 4x Weekly
Poland
Krakow - Daily (2x Daily @LTN)
Portugal
Faro - Daily *
Madeira - 2x Weekly
Romania
Bucharest OTP - Daily (3x Daily @LTN & 3x Weekly @SEN)
Spain
Malaga - 2x Daily (Daily @LTN)
Lanzorote - 3x Weekly *
Palma de Mallorca - Daily (Daily @LTN)
Tenerife - 5x Weekly (5x Weekly @LTN)

* = Routes moved from Luton
With the above programme from Wizz, would there be any room left for Jet2 at LGW assuming they could get slots? The ops so far this winter seem to have generated passenger interest in the product. I'd be surprised if they didn't try to get in there, but how could they do so?

[772]

With the above programme from Wizz, would there be any room left for Jet2 at LGW assuming they could get slots? The ops so far this winter seem to have generated passenger interest in the product. I'd be surprised if they didn't try to get in there, but how could they do so?

interesting question regards Jet2.

their winter operations appear to have been successful but I think they have (not entirely but largely) filled a gap left by BA this winter, pre covid (and I would suspect winter 21) BA operated ski and Lapland flights, this winter without them I think LS have been smart plugging the gap but moving forwards, with LS having such a strong operation further North in the U.K. and with strong competition at LGW from U2, BA, TOM and W6 I’m not sure it would be wise for LS to try and break into the LGW market.

don’t get me wrong I think LS have a very good offering especially with jet2 holidays and could do well at LGW but it could be a difficult market to enter as the incumbent airlines may react to any new entrants.

I hope LS do try and enter the market however would add some more competition and variety at LGW

[Vokes55]

We all seem to be assuming costs won't be going up at LGW? The balance sheet is a car crash with LGW being the worst affected of our major airports. BA actually do have a good history of adding brand new long haul metal at LGW, G-VIIO/P/R have been LGW based since delivery for the most part and the later B744s arrived at LGW via Cambridge. There's a lot in flux at the mo, am not really convinced Scoot will do well, and BA may move BKK to LGW but on doing so will leave a fair amount of premium traffic to Thai at LHR. Every route BA moved in the past, the African and South American long hauls lost a % of premium traffic as they had a competitor who stayed at LHR. With Thai still in market, I wonder if BKK needs to stay put? Doha is a different beast as QR's LHR ops compliment BA's LGW service, they're partners.

Bangkok is (normally) high volume and low yield. Thai is a competitor, but most of the competition came from the 6-7 ME airlines that had about 20 flights a day to both London and Bangkok. BA gave up trying to compete for higher yields on that route a long time ago, which is why it ended up on the dog of the fleet with mediocre flight times. If (big if, I agree) Scoot stick around, it may prompt BA to move it in to LGW. Using the reconfigured 777 would also be both a product upgrade and a capacity increase on their pre-Covid offering. As it is, they’ve binned BKK altogether until Winter 22.

With the above programme from Wizz, would there be any room left for Jet2 at LGW assuming they could get slots? The ops so far this winter seem to have generated passenger interest in the product. I'd be surprised if they didn't try to get in there, but how could they do so?

There’s no chance of EZY, BA or TOM letting Jet2 in. Ever.

[Vokes55]

interesting question regards Jet2.

their winter operations appear to have been successful but I think they have (not entirely but largely) filled a gap left by BA this winter, pre covid (and I would suspect winter 21) BA operated ski and Lapland flights, this winter without them I think LS have been smart plugging the gap but moving forwards, with LS having such a strong operation further North in the U.K. and with strong competition at LGW from U2, BA, TOM and W6 I’m not sure it would be wise for LS to try and break into the LGW market.


The Jet2 flights were charter flights operated on behalf of tour operators that tend to go to the cheapest bidder. In the past, these flights were operated by the likes of Germania, Small Planet and Enter Air. I doubt Jet2 even made any money on them.

[brian_dromey]

Very much agree with you. I think the A359 could make a good fit for LGW in terms of a direct 1-1 replacement for the 772s, although I'm unsure whether the A350-900 is able to accommodate the numbers as currently seen in the densified 772s? Surely BA wouldn't try to replicate 3-4-3 Y in the A359 as in the 777 currently, as that would be really pushing it. Alternatively, they could go with more 788s/9s, with the advantage that current 777 pilots at LGW could seamlessly transfer onto the replacement fleet with little/no training? Although as mentioned, capacity per aircraft would drop pretty drastically. They could do what VS have done with the leisure fleet and go with the A350-1000 with a densified configuration.

Iberia are flying their A359s in a 31/24/293 layout compared to 32/52/252 on the 777s, thats 3-3-3 with a 31" pitch in Y. I would expect BA to sacrifice some Economy seats for Premium Economy, but they still might end up with one or two dozen more seats overall. The A350 is a bit larger than the 787 and airlines tend to configure it at a higher density than the 787. I guess thats why the 787/350 combination is fairly common in many airline fleets. With the A350 and 787 already in the fleet at LHR anything could happen. Its even more unpredictable when the wider IAG landscape is taken into account. Pound for pound the A359 would be the closest direct replacement, if that is what BA want for their 777-200 fleet.

[vectisman]

I see that Jazzera Airways are ceasing Heathrow operations citing high airport charges as part of the reason from January 6th. I wonder if they will return to Gatwick where I believe they still hold slots.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Do we have a link on the Jazeera issue? Nothing on google or twitter but bookings have been closed. Challenging making mid haul LOCO work in a COVID world, Kuwait still has a 10 day quarantine on arrival so more indicative of being squeezed out of the market via COVID otherwise they would have jumped ship to LGW or STN ref fees. It's also a twice weekly night stopper rather than a daily spin which adds to the cost burden.

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/kuwait/entry-requirements#entry-rules-in-response-to-coronavirus-covid-19
"You will have to quarantine at home for ten days on arrival, although quarantine can end if the PCR test carried out 72 hours after your arrival proves negative."

[vectisman]

I think this is the link. Hopefully allowed to post it here.
https://twitter.com/mzulqarnainbut1/status/1478489965701079045?s=21

[vectisman]

https://twitter.com/luxurytravelled/status/1478617555866636289?s=21

[Buster the Bear]

The massive increase in flights by Wizz will yield an additional 3.4m seats to their existing operation annually.

[JW95]

Now that we have confirmation of BA building up their LGW presence again with short haul returning, no doubt GIP are beginning to ready the South Terminal for a reopening soon? Does anyone know if all airlines that were originally based in the South (British Airways, Ryanair, Wizz, Turkish Airlines et al.) are intending to move back or will some remain in North Terminal long term? BA is an obvious candidate to relocate back to the South, given that their lounges are there, but was wondering what FR, W6, VY, TK and even Scoot are planning on doing once LGW reverts to dual terminal operations?

[True Blue]

I see flights appearing on arrivals and departures, SAS to Copenhagen. Showing on arrivals and departures twice daily. New intended flights?

[True Blue]

Vueling to open a base at Lgw from April 22.

[fjencl]

Vueling to open a base at Lgw from April 22.
What routes does Vueling fly to from Gatwick airport.

[davidjohnson6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatwick_Airport#Airlines_and_destinations

[BAladdy]

According to Wikipedia. They already fly to:

Barcelona
Bilbao
Florence
Paris Orly
Rome
Santiago de Compostela
Valencia

They are planning to add from April:

A Coruna
Asturias
Granada
Jerez
Malaga
Menorca
Paris CDG
Seville

[pabely]

Is this just part of BA Euroflyer? or in addition to their original press release of 18 SH BA aircraft?
We're not BA going to lease some slots to EZY so they could expand as well at LGW?

[BA318]

Is this just part of BA Euroflyer? or in addition to their original press release of 18 SH BA aircraft?
We're not BA going to lease some slots to EZY so they could expand as well at LGW?

This is further expansion operated by Vueling. It will likely get a BA code but obviously there is no Club etc on Vueling.

[CabinCrewe]

..and not the last of this apparent VX /BAEF overlap..

[brian_dromey]

BAEF Routes:
Alicante (ALC), Amsterdam (AMS), Antalya (ATY), Athens (ATH), Bari (BRI), Berlin (BER), Bordeaux (BOD), Cagliari (CAG), Catania (CTA), Dalaman (DLM), Dubrovnik (DBV), Faro (FAO), Gran Canaria (LPA), Heraklion (HER), Ibiza (OBZ), Kos (KGS), Lanzarote (ACE), Larnaca (LCA), Mahon (MAH), Madrid (MAD), Malta (MLA), Malaga (AGP), Marrakech (RAK), Milan (MXP), Nice (NCE), Rhodes (RHO), Palma (PMI), Paphos (PFO), Santorini (JTR), Seville (SVQ), Tenerife (TFS), Thessaloniki (SKG), Turin (TRN), Venice (VCE), and Verona (VRN).
Vueling Routes:
Barcelona,Bilbao,Florence,Paris Orly, Rome, Santiago de Compostela,Valencia,
Vueling Additions:
A Coruna, Asturias, Granada, Jerez, Malaga, Menorca, Paris CDG, Seville.

By complete coincidence (of course!) the only route where BAEF and VY overlap is Malaga. I think BA could send A380s there and still fill them. In fairness most of the routes VY are planning are pretty interesting destinations in their own right, if slightly off the beaten track from a "Spain = Costas" tourism mindset. Are any of these served by easyJet at the moment?

[pabely]

Yes quite a few which again begs the question about leased slots to EZY, still going to happen or is that arrangement gone soar?

[brian_dromey]

Yes quite a few which again begs the question about leased slots to EZY, still going to happen or is that arrangement gone soar?

I believe BA still had quite a few unaccounted for slots. According to what I can find online, at the peak, BA operated around 25 short haul aircraft, I think it might have been a few more and closer to 30. For sure there were the 10 G-GATx, 6 G-MIDx/G-MEDx A320s, the 10x G-DBCx A319s and usually a few extras from the LHR operation.

At 'just' 18 aircraft the BAEF operation needs a bit of friendly help to use all the LGW slots. Is there any word on which aircraft the LGW operation will use? 18 is a conveniently identical number to the A321ceo fleet thats had a few years parked up in Spain.

[CabinCrewe]

18 is a conveniently identical number to the A321ceo fleet thats had a few years parked up in Spain.
The A321ceos are now appearing on LHR T3 ops for S22 so doubt it will be lock stock transfer to LGW.

[pabely]

Just reading an article about RYR expanded base at DUB and it says LGW will be 8 daily S22.
Is that above pre-covid levels?
Along with 8 & 4 daily to STN & LTN from DUB that's alot of capacity!

[sewushr]

Yes, I think FR 8 x daily on DUB-LGW is more than pre-Covid, but not 'new' for S22. They were operating 8 daily flights on the route from the start of the Winter season (end of October) until the New Year.
Cut quite drastically for the moment, as is much of their European network

[EI-BUD]

Ryanair used to operate 8 daily DUB LGW pre pandemic in 2019. I recall that also would have had daily SNN, ALC and ORK. So I'm guessing they have something like 11 slot pairs. Clearly other routes operated at times including Kaunas, Seville or Malaga, but subject to be corrected .

[FRatSTN]

I remember back around 2010 when Ryanair were operating about 15 routes from LGW - That was largely due to the BAA debacle at STN during that time - but don't think LGW-DUB was operating at nearly that kind of frequency then.

[AirportPlanner1]

Are any of these served by easyJet at the moment?

A fair few BA ones do but they always did. As for the new Spanish routes, Granada was served until Covid and Asturias was served from STN until the base closure

[FlyboyUK]

Presumably the Vueling based aircraft are going to have to be on the G-reg?

[AirportPlanner1]

Presumably the Vueling based aircraft are going to have to be on the G-reg?

No, not unless they serve non-EU.

[True Blue]

How many units will Vueling be basing at Lgw? 2 or 3 as I have seen different reports.

[BA318]

How many units will Vueling be basing at Lgw? 2 or 3 as I have seen different reports.

All reports I’ve seen say 3 planes. There will also be 4 Iberia Express A320 on lease to BA Euroflyer for the summer season.

[JW95]

More good news for LGW: Looks like CI will be returning to LGW at the beginning of the S22 timetables, as confirmed by their booking engine. Flight numbers same as pre-Covid with similar flight times, reverting to the South Terminal as before. Will be good to see them back at LGW again. Are they currently the sole A359 operator into LGW?

[CCFAIRPORT]

NEW BASE : VUELING
5 new routes
A Coruna
Granada
Malaga
Menorca
Sevilla

All begins April 2022

[Charley B]

More good news for LGW: Looks like CI will be returning to LGW at the beginning of the S22 timetables, as confirmed by their booking engine. Flight numbers same as pre-Covid with similar flight times, reverting to the South Terminal as before. Will be good to see them back at LGW again. Are they currently the sole A359 operator into LGW?


No others currently at Gatwick…think Cathay Pacific were the other one here pre pandemic x

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Scoot seemed to have given up already after only 10 flights?

[davidjohnson6]

Scoot seemed to have given up already after only 10 flights?
Perhaps temporarily suspended until 22 March 2022 ?

[BA318]

https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2021/11/12/scoot-to-launch-flights-between-singapore-and-gatwick-via-bangkok/

There was always planned to be a pause. Flights resume in March.

[SWBKCB]

The Iberia subsidary Iberia Express will operate between April and Ocober 2022 on behalf of the sister company from London Gatwick. Under a wet lease agreement, the Spanish carrier will operate some routes from the Uk's second largest airport.

The corresponding contract has already been signed within the group. In Gatwick, British Airways is opening a new subsidiary, BA Euroflyer. This should operate more cost-effectively than the mainline. Apparently there is a lack of staff, because they get help from the Spanish sister company Iberia Express at the start.

The group confirmed the use, but no further details are given as to how many machines will fly from Gatwick on behalf of British Airways. The Spanish union USO, on the other hand, states that there will be four aircraft.

https://aviation.direct/en/wetlease-british-airways-brings-iberia-express-to-gatwick

[Buster the Bear]

4X A320 Iberia Express and Vueling 3x A320 for summer 2022 based.

[EI-BUD]

I remember back around 2010 when Ryanair were operating about 15 routes from LGW - That was largely due to the BAA debacle at STN during that time - but don't think LGW-DUB was operating at nearly that kind of frequency then.

Wow FRatSTN,
I never remember Ryanair doing that many routes from LGW, even when Aer Lingus had the base their or after ..

In relation to Vueling, I flew ALC LGW pre pandemic, they had a daily evening flight. That must be discontinued. At the time in the route they were competing with BA, easyJet and Ryanair and to some extent Tui..

[vectisman]

With today's announcement that the slot rules at UK airports have been tightened to 70/30 use it or lose it, I believe the recent news regarding Vueling expansion at Gatwick
and the chartering of up to 4 Iberia Express aircraft for BA Euroflyer is in part a response by IAG's need to use more of its slots at Gatwick during Summer 2022.
Will be interesting to see if there are any more route expansions at the airport by IAG in the coming weeks.

[HOVIS]

Is the BA LGW-MAN route still due to start in April?

[vectisman]

Is the BA LGW-MAN route still due to start in April?
This may not be happening until June 1st. Islamabad still operating from March 27th at the moment, just checked.

[HOVIS]

ISB? From MAN?

[True Blue]

From Lgw to Isb.

[vectisman]

Most of the information people request on here is readily available online. It is so easy now.
I can remember a time when the only way to get such information was to write or call the companies concerned or actually
visit the airports to see what was going on! In some ways more interesting.
Today want answers immediately and seem even less prepared to look out for information and answers themselves..

[CabinCrewe]

Most of the information people request on here is readily available online. It is so easy now.
I can remember a time when the only way to get such information was to write or call the companies concerned or actually
visit the airports to see what was going on! In some ways more interesting.
Today want answers immediately and seem even less prepared to look out for information and answers themselves..
Why look elsewhere when you can ask on here? I don’t see the issue.

[vectisman]

The issue is the lack of effort or ability of people to do things for themselves. Nothing wrong at all with asking on here after making some effort yourself.

[c52]

It can be incredibly hard to get timetable information from an airline's website. They mostly only grudgingly reveal flight data if you ask for a specific date. What we folk want is "Days 1 3 5 from May 3rd till the end of summer" or something.

[HOVIS]

The issue is the lack of effort or ability of people to do things for themselves. Nothing wrong at all with asking on here after making some effort yourself.
How do you know someone hasn't made any effort?
By the way, what is the relevance of Islamabad with regard to LGW-MAN flights?

[davidjohnson6]

A third (maybe more) of the passengers on an evening MAN-LGW flight are connecting on to Pakistan

[HOVIS]

What do you mean 'are'?
There is no LGW-MAN flight at the moment and hasn't been for some time.

[Rutan16]

What do you mean 'are'?
There is no LGW-MAN flight at the moment and hasn't been for some time.

British Airways are scheduled to reinstate a daily Manchester - Gatwick- Manchester rotation in W using a Heathrow shuttle A32X to connect to this flight and potentially others .

The Gatwick - Pakistan service itself hasn't started yet and I suppose BA may be expecting upwards of three figures of connecting traffic from the North West.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Surely the whole LGW-Pakistan rationale is predicated on PIA not re-starting ops out of LHR?
There's a competitive disadvantage in offering LGW-Pakistan once PIA are back operating out of LHR. BA traditionally lose out when their competitor stays at LHR and they offer only LGW service. This is less of a problem when they're only up against Virgin, competing against a flag carrier is a different proposition. Having said that, BA's Pakistan operation was at LGW on the B747 for years back in the day.
Offering an almost dedicated shuttle service to feed one long haul flight is interesting to say the least IMHO.

[BHX5DME]

Surely the whole LGW-Pakistan rationale is predicated on PIA not re-starting ops out of LHR?
There's a competitive disadvantage in offering LGW-Pakistan once PIA are back operating out of LHR. BA traditionally lose out when their competitor stays at LHR and they offer only LGW service. This is less of a problem when they're only up against Virgin, competing against a flag carrier is a different proposition. Having said that, Pakistan was at LGW on the B747 for years back in the day.
Offering an almost dedicated shuttle service to feed one long haul flight is interesting to say the least IMHO.
Pakistan have failed to satisfy EASA again so the ban continues

[Vokes55]

Surely the whole LGW-Pakistan rationale is predicated on PIA not re-starting ops out of LHR?
There's a competitive disadvantage in offering LGW-Pakistan once PIA are back operating out of LHR. BA traditionally lose out when their competitor stays at LHR and they offer only LGW service. This is less of a problem when they're only up against Virgin, competing against a flag carrier is a different proposition. Having said that, BA's Pakistan operation was at LGW on the B747 for years back in the day.
Offering an almost dedicated shuttle service to feed one long haul flight is interesting to say the least IMHO.

U.K.-Pakistan is high density but extremely low yield. It’ll go from where the highest density aircraft is based or it’ll be canned. The MAN flights will feed into it, but will also feed into Caribbean and Florida flights, so there’s some added benefit there. But BA aren’t going to be fussed about competition here, Pakistan has been a stable route for bums on seats during two years of changeable demand just about everywhere else, but it won’t be making much money. The route will probably go once they have a better use for the aircraft, just like Lahore has.

[Rutan16]

Surely the whole LGW-Pakistan rationale is predicated on PIA not re-starting ops out of LHR?
There's a competitive disadvantage in offering LGW-Pakistan once PIA are back operating out of LHR. BA traditionally lose out when their competitor stays at LHR and they offer only LGW service. This is less of a problem when they're only up against Virgin, competing against a flag carrier is a different proposition. Having said that, BA's Pakistan operation was at LGW on the B747 for years back in the day.
Offering an almost dedicated shuttle service to feed one long haul flight is interesting to say the least IMHO.

Sort agree however the idea of actually operating the route (where the traffic is !) might frustrate a few in HQ !

Manchester and West Yorkshire IS where the traffic comes from.

As for yield Plenty willing to pay and potentially massive baggage income !

[davidjohnson6]

SkyAlps are continuing to cancel flights between Gatwick to Bolzano 14 days in advance. Their start date is now Sunday 13 Feb, ie start of half term
I hope this flight remains bookable on Monday in at least one direction... if not I would be concerned as to whether SkyAlps (or Luxwing who operate the flights) will be coming to Gatwick at all

[Buster the Bear]

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/wizz-air-adds-more-routes-from-gatwick

[Buster the Bear]

easyJet will have 79 airframes based for Summer 2022.

[True Blue]

Freebird will increase their route to Antalya to 4 weekly this summer and also launch a new route to Bodrum 2 weekly.

[Buster the Bear]

Freebird. The carrier had planned a twice-weekly Antalya service from Gatwick commencing in May 2022, but will now offer this four times a week following promising early sales.

Flights will operate on Monday, Tuesday, Saturday and Sunday.

Freebird will also launch a twice-weekly service from Gatwick to Bodrum, also commencing in May, operating on Tuesday and Friday.

This will complement the existing Antalya services from Manchester, already operating twice weekly.

Carl Denton, UK sales representative, said: “Following our launch during the restrictions of the pandemic, we are now very encouraged to see consumer confidence return and bookings pick up.

“In reaction to this we are pleased to have secured the necessary cleared slots at Gatwick to ensure we can meet this demand and grow back the capacity to Turkey.”

He added Freebird was happy to work with agents. “We are keen to engage and encourage travel agents to offer Freebird flights to their clients and also discuss technical solutions to ensure they have the best access to the flights Freebird offers from the UK.”

https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/more-turkey-flights-added-by-freebird-airlines-32622?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Evening%20Bulletin

[GBYAJ]

flashback-does anyone know if there is an organisation that has details of historic Gatwick movements? A blast from the past but trying to find out about a couple of Laker flights from 1981. Cheers

[WHBM]

The Laker Skytrain summer 1981 timetable is here :

gk8103-2.jpg (2402×1338) (timetableimages.com) (http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/gk/gk8103/gk8103-2.jpg)

Doesn't include the ABC charters (Toronto etc) or the Mediterranean holiday charter flights.

[SWBKCB]

The Laker Skytrain summer 1981 timetable is here :

gk8103-2.jpg (2402×1338) (timetableimages.com) (http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/gk/gk8103/gk8103-2.jpg)

Doesn't include the ABC charters (Toronto etc) or the Mediterranean holiday charter flights.

From memory, the trans-atlantic schedule for summer 1981 was 'flexible'

[GBYAJ]

The Laker Skytrain summer 1981 timetable is here :

gk8103-2.jpg (2402×1338) (timetableimages.com) (http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/gk/gk8103/gk8103-2.jpg)

Doesn't include the ABC charters (Toronto etc) or the Mediterranean holiday charter flights.


Thanks! Really love the old timetables. It was actually one of the med charters that I was interested in. A DC10 to Gerona. Just found an old diary so have dates and times if anyone by some fluke has registrations!

[toscana24]

flashback-does anyone know if there is an organisation that has details of historic Gatwick movements? A blast from the past but trying to find out about a couple of Laker flights from 1981. Cheers

Try archive-main-munu (lhr-lgw.co.uk) (http://www.lhr-lgw.co.uk/archive-main-munu.html) : has selected movements on selected dates in 1981.

[davidjohnson6]

SkyAlps are continuing to cancel flights between Gatwick to Bolzano 14 days in advance. Their start date is now Sunday 13 Feb, ie start of half term
I hope this flight remains bookable on Monday in at least one direction... if not I would be concerned as to whether SkyAlps (or Luxwing who operate the flights) will be coming to Gatwick at all

Route has now been cancelled... before any flights took place

[azzbo]

Are there any rumours about the reopening of the south terminal / yotel? Looking for a cheap on site hotel this summer and a bit surprised it's all still closed up.

[vectisman]

I believe the South Terminal is being readied for Summer season 2022 opening. That’s is from the end of March. Lots of companies advertising for South Terminal staff. Hopefully official announcement soon.

[FlyboyUK]

And presuming things go to plan there will be some orange tails parked up at the south terminal this summer too.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

And presuming things go to plan there will be some orange tails parked up at the south terminal this summer too.
Hang on, the whole point of shifting BA out was to ensure easyJet could be under one roof. With traffic still well down on 2019, why would easyJet need to be split over two terminals?

[vectisman]

Skipness, I have heard from several sources that easyjet will be operating some flights from South Terminal this Summer. I believe they will be the series numbered 6xxx. I think it is because they are increasing their based fleet to some 79 aircraft. With other airlines based in North planning a return or increased frequencies there probably is not the capacity for North to take all the extra flights. BA have also leased some slots to easyjet, so maybe operationally easier to operate these from South, I don’t know for sure.
I am also not sure which destinations are operating from South, maybe some of their summer seasonal services.
I also believe easyjet are leasing in aircraft from Smartlynx and maybe Titan.
​​​​​​.

[Vokes55]

Hang on, the whole point of shifting BA out was to ensure easyJet could be under one roof. With traffic still well down on 2019, why would easyJet need to be split over two terminals?

Traffic levels at Gatwick, in terms of number of flights, are scheduled to be on par with 2019 this Summer. The majority of Gatwick traffic is short haul leisure or VFR, so I don’t see any reason at this stage why this won’t be the case.

[vectisman]

I also think a lot of the Gatwick leisure airlines are reporting very heavy bookings for Summer 2022 for Gatwick departures.
Sorry Vokes55 our posts crossed.

[vectisman]

I agree with vokes55 regarding the recovery of the short haul leisure and VFR market. Gatwick suffered a great deal when the pandemic affected this sector but the upside is that it will recover quite quickly as this market is now improving rapidly.
British Airways have also hugely expanded their Heathrow short haul leisure this year capture some of that market. It’s been a while since BA operated 4 or 5 flights daily to Malaga, Palma, Faro etc… from Heathrow,
I also hear bookings at BA Euroflyer are doing well.
I also have been told that the BA Mainline long haul from Gatwick is doing well in all cabins to leisure destinations.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Scheduled flights /= passenger volumes, I'd be surprised if we're back to pre COVID levels in only four months time. Capacity is on sale but until masks and testing ends, the uncertainty will continue to suppress travel demand.
However my question was, even at 2019 peak, EZY was in one terminal. Why would that change if South re-opens and Virgin have no flights this summer and WestJet are moving YYC to LHR? Seems odd, anyone know?

[JW95]

Scheduled flights /= passenger volumes, I'd be surprised if we're back to pre COVID levels in only four months time. Capacity is on sale but until masks and testing ends, the uncertainty will continue to suppress travel demand.
However my question was, even at 2019 peak, EZY was in one terminal. Why would that change if South re-opens and Virgin have no flights this summer and WestJet are moving YYC to LHR? Seems odd, anyone know?
I'm confused at this as well.. Once South Terminal reopens and BA, along with EI, FR, BT, UX, VY, KM, GR, IB, TK and others typically based in South move back, surely there will be enough space for EZY to fully accommodate their flying programme in the North terminal? They (along with passengers) weren't keen with the split-terminal operation pre the 2017 airline moves programme, so they'd undoubtably prefer to remain consolidated in the North, as all their check in/bag drop and crew rooms are there.

Also, has there been any word on VS possibly returning to LGW?

[davidjohnson6]

Those of us travelling to/from Gatwick by train would far prefer as much flying as possible to be in the South terminal... even if it means having to check whether a particular route is in North or South

[JW95]

Those of us travelling to/from Gatwick by train would far prefer as much flying as possible to be in the South terminal... even if it means having to check whether a particular route is in North or South
Very much agree, plus I generally find the South Terminal the nicer of the two at LGW; the departure lounge definitely feels more spacious with a lot more natural light compared to the North.

[vectisman]

We can question it as much as we like but that is what is planned. Wizzair will also have a much greater presence in the Summer 2022. I am not sure what terminal in which they will be based.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

We can question it as much as we like but that is what is planned. Wizzair will also have a much greater presence in the Summer 2022. I am not sure what terminal in which they will be based.
No net new fleet additions coming so a loss of 4 aircraft from Luton it seems.

[vectisman]

I meant a greater presence at Gatwick.

[Vokes55]

Scheduled flights /= passenger volumes, I'd be surprised if we're back to pre COVID levels in only four months time. Capacity is on sale but until masks and testing ends, the uncertainty will continue to suppress travel demand.
However my question was, even at 2019 peak, EZY was in one terminal. Why would that change if South re-opens and Virgin have no flights this summer and WestJet are moving YYC to LHR? Seems odd, anyone know?

Passenger numbers aren’t the factor here, it’s the fact that easyJet are going to have 79 based aircraft, all of which will be departing within a 2-3 hour period in the morning. Add 13 TUI short haul aircraft, that is 92 based aircraft compared to 23 at South (BA/VY/W9). It’s a huge imbalance.

easy were actually planning a small South operation in Summer 2020, so it’s not a totally new phenomenon.

As for whether we will be back at pre-Covid levels in four months, time will tell. But short haul leisure and VFR are the two markets bouncing back quickest, and that’s what’s currently in the schedule for LGW. This morning TUI reported stronger sales for this summer than 2019, and whilst they’re only a small
part of the Gatwick operation, it is a bellwether for the state of the outbound leisure market.

[vectisman]

Things do seem to be on the up.
https://www.crawleyobserver.co.uk/business/2600-jobs-available-at-gatwick-jobs-fair-3557916
blob:https://www.pprune.org/35ca02c0-79e9-4e62-9b95-daa2200a99ec

[JW95]

We can question it as much as we like but that is what is planned. Wizzair will also have a much greater presence in the Summer 2022. I am not sure what terminal in which they will be based.
EZY have also publicly confirmed the (re)introduction of South terminal operations from late March as per the link:

London Gatwick with easyJet | easyJet (http://www.easyjet.com/en/help/preparing-to-fly/gatwick-airport)

Very interesting. I wonder what zone they'll be based in? From memory, they had zone C before BA took over..

[vectisman]

BA Gatwick based fleet looking to be about 30 aircraft at moment. 18 Airbus A319/320 for short haul plus about 12 777s. Up to 4 Iberia Express available too.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

easy were actually planning a small South operation in Summer 2020, so it’s not a totally new phenomenon.
That's the missing piece of information right there.

When BA were at their peak bussing from the 130s and 140s was common, but all check in and facilities were in one terminal. Now it seems that easyJet are too big for one terminal (and let's reflect how impressive that is and how dominant they are at LGW) then the option of processing through one terminal and bussing would still be there, but why make use of South too?
There's roughly 39 pier served gates on the North Terminal on Piers 4,5 and 6, and arriving heavies will be taking their place when the first wave departs. If easyJet have 79 based aircraft then good luck Gatwick, that doesn't sound like fun.

[azzbo]

Thanks all, do you think the Yotel will reopen soon then? Don't want to book something else outside the terminal if it's on the cards.

[JW95]

Thanks all, do you think the Yotel will reopen soon then? Don't want to book something else outside the terminal if it's on the cards.
My guess is that it will reopen nearer to the time of the South terminal reopening in late March, maybe a few days beforehand :)

[davidjohnson6]

Perhaps you could contact Yotel and ask them when they intend to reopen ?
If the people managing the hotel don't know...
https://www.yotel.com/en/contact-us

[vectisman]

Can you not email the company and ask them when they are re-opening?

[vectisman]

Skipness, I am sure Gatwick will cope with 79 EasyJet. Don’t forget BA have about 12 less SH aircraft for 2022, Norwegian’s presence is less plus Thomas Cook is gone. Overall total based aircraft from all airlines will be similar to 2019. I am sure Gatwick is happy to have the ‘problem’ of so many based aircraft after the past two years.

[Vokes55]

It’s also not a new problem to Gatwick, by virtue of the fact that it’s always been an airport where the majority of flights are with based aircraft that start and end the day there. There will always be not enough gates in the morning and too many during the day.

Even back to pre-EZY days in 2002/3, when the airport was full of the larger 757/767s that would leave for the Med every morning. At least 8 different charter airlines were based in Gatwick, which would’ve added up to a fairly similar number as EZY have today. Perhaps a little less noticeable because many of the charter airlines back in those days would come in at 2230 and go out again an hour later. Alas, the arrival of EZY and EU261 largely put a stop to the round the clock operation. Nostalgia.

[pabely]

Do we know if the 79 based EZY frames include the SmartLynx leased ones as well?

[Sotonsean]

During the height of the COVID-19 pandemic Gatwick Airport Limited put on hold the construction of the North Terminal Pier 6 extension which would have allowed for up to severn extra gates with airbridges. If and when this project resumes or more to the point if it had been completed would it have been enough to have accommodated those extra flights planned by easyJet that are scheduled for the South Terminal.

[JW95]

Adding to the above, does anyone know wether the EZY South terminal operation is a temporary/seasonal measure only? Or is it likely to be year-round?

[FRatSTN]

With the 79 based EZYs, do they all overnight in LGW, or does that figure include any that night-stop overseas or utilised overnight with a first wave arrival?

Considering FR does a similar sized operation from STN by volume with only 45-50 based (due to there being a lot more non-based flying), this does seem cripplingly inefficient from a LGW perspective.

[azzbo]

Perhaps you could contact Yotel and ask them when they intend to reopen ?
If the people managing the hotel don't know...
https://www.yotel.com/en/contact-us

They don't, or at least aren't sharing the date as I already emailed them. You'd think if South Terminal was reopening next month they'd have said, but who knows. I just wondered if the rumour network has more intel.

[Vokes55]

With the 79 based EZYs, do they all overnight in LGW, or does that figure include any that night-stop overseas or utilised overnight with a first wave arrival?

Considering FR does a similar sized operation from STN by volume with only 45-50 based (due to there being a lot more non-based flying), this does seem cripplingly inefficient from a LGW perspective.

Two, maybe three overnight elsewhere. I believe the Madrid night stop was part of the deal with MAD based pilots when they closed the base there. Previously there was also a LIN and an INV night stop, but LIN appears to be dropped altogether for the Summer, and the night stop has been replaced by ABZ. Similar to FR at STN, there are a raft of EJU/EZS arrivals that get in after the majority of the first wave has left.

[vectisman]

Officially announced this morning Gatwick South will re-open on March 27th.
https://twitter.com/gatwick_airport/status/1492015564134522881?s=21

[JW95]

Fantastic to see this finally confirmed! On my recent visit to LGW, I was in South terminal very briefly and it was awful seeing it deserted and devoid of life compared to when I last flew out from there with CX to HKG in February 2020 :( So it'll be good seeing it come to life again later next month! :) The terminal page at LGW has also been updated with all South-based airlines moving back, but is missing Scoot; are they likely to be remaining in the North terminal or move South when BKK/SIN recommences?

[Rutan16]

Freebird. The carrier had planned a twice-weekly Antalya service from Gatwick commencing in May 2022, but will now offer this four times a week following promising early sales.

Flights will operate on Monday, Tuesday, Saturday and Sunday.

Freebird will also launch a twice-weekly service from Gatwick to Bodrum, also commencing in May, operating on Tuesday and Friday.

This will complement the existing Antalya services from Manchester, already operating twice weekly.

Carl Denton, UK sales representative, said: “Following our launch during the restrictions of the pandemic, we are now very encouraged to see consumer confidence return and bookings pick up.

“In reaction to this we are pleased to have secured the necessary cleared slots at Gatwick to ensure we can meet this demand and grow back the capacity to Turkey.”

He added Freebird was happy to work with agents. “We are keen to engage and encourage travel agents to offer Freebird flights to their clients and also discuss technical solutions to ensure they have the best access to the flights Freebird offers from the UK.”

https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/more-turkey-flights-added-by-freebird-airlines-32622?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Evening%20Bulletin

Firebird’s prime business for these and Manchester flights are the direct onward connections into and out of Ercan

[willy wombat]

Traveling through Gatwick this evening. You’d have thought that, given the misery that the industry has been through that the airport would be pulling out the stops so that now that people are flying again it would be a pleasant experience. So why were there massive queues at security with the x-ray machines repeatedly stopping for several minutes? When we eventually got through I heard one passenger comment “Gatwick’s back to its crappy self”. Difficult to sympathise with airport management complaining about the inconvenience to passengers of the likes of passenger locator forms when they are failing to effectively manage the things they can control.

[WHBM]

Traveling through Gatwick this evening. You’d have thought that, given the misery that the industry has been through that the airport would be pulling out the stops so that now that people are flying again it would be a pleasant experience. So why were there massive queues at security with the x-ray machines repeatedly stopping for several minutes? When we eventually got through I heard one passenger comment “Gatwick’s back to its crappy self”. Difficult to sympathise with airport management complaining about the inconvenience to passengers of the likes of passenger locator forms when they are failing to effectively manage the things they can control.
Unfortunately the old managers with the old mindset are still there, don't know any different. Queues for security are a typical example. Someone on high sets a very loose target that "security queue time should not exceed 20 minutes". This gets interpreted as, providing that it doesn't exceed the 20 minutes, you have Done Your Job. If it's down to 10 minutes you can send a team off for an extra tea break. Builds up again, well, we'll get them back to keep in the limit. This is even before all sorts of gaming the statistics, to show you are within the target. Thoughts of "let's make it a pleasant experience" aren't in the targets set or measured at all.

[vectisman]

Maybe there was a fault with the machinery. Generally Gatwick has a good reputation for security queues so maybe your experience was just unfortunate. I personally do not believe
managers deliberately keep queue times up or down.
In the context of the present situation in Europe maybe a wait at security is the least thing to moan about.
I must stress this is just my personal opinion and no offence intended.

[FlyboyUK]

The security queue was horrendous on Saturday morning too. But good to see the terminal bustling with people like mid summer

[vectisman]

Things will probably improve when South Terminal re-opens on March 27th. At the moment North Terminal is operating above capacity
on some days especially during the half term period.

[brianj]

Emirates have cancelled the planned winter EK12 service that was scheduled to depart at 0940.

[CabinCrewe]

Emirates have cancelled the planned winter EK12 service that was scheduled to depart at 0940.
and Scoot gone too. So much for major travel rebound…

[gdiddy]

Any news on China Airlines - London to Taipei service returning to Gatwick?

Not heard any news about Scoot pulling out, but nothing on their website from London is bookable.

I guess it was always inevitable, the long haul routes would be harder to restore than the European ones, and carriers would be focusing on restoring capacity to LHR before LGW, which acts more as an overflow.

[JW95]

Any news on China Airlines - London to Taipei service returning to Gatwick?

Not heard any news about Scoot pulling out, but nothing on their website from London is bookable.

I guess it was always inevitable, the long haul routes would be harder to restore than the European ones, and carriers would be focusing on restoring capacity to LHR before LGW, which acts more as an overflow.
RE. Scoot- they should be resuming LGW towards the end of March? I was speaking with one of their agents just a couple of weeks ago, and he confirmed Scoot would be back at LGW North Terminal, unless things have changed since then?

RE. China Airlines- Gatwick is still listing them as operating from the South Terminal when it reopens. I thought they hadn't been granted S22 slots at LHR?

It is a shame though. LGW had a really nice and diverse mix of long haul pre 2020/pandemic, and it's very sad seeing how reduced it has become, as LGW has become a great airport under GIP ownership. Granted, we've had some new entrants (JetBlue, Scoot) and BA are building their LGW operation back up again to similar pre-Covid levels, but at the same time, the airport has undoubtably lost a large chunk (Virgin Atlantic- although rumoured to be returning- Cathay Pacific, Air China, China Eastern, Rwandair, Norwegian). I am hopeful that the airport will be able to work hard to attract some of this back, and hopefully LGW long-haul can be rebuilt.

[jmdavies86]

According to the following press release (https://mediacentre.gatwickairport.com/press-releases/all/22_03_15_norse_slots.aspx), Norse Atlantic have secured x2 six-weekly slot pairs at LGW; routes are yet to be confirmed, but flights are expected to take-off later in the summer.

[SWBKCB]

According to the following press release (https://mediacentre.gatwickairport.com/press-releases/all/22_03_15_norse_slots.aspx), Norse Atlantic have secured x2 six-weekly slot pairs at LGW; routes are yet to be confirmed, but flights are expected to take-off later in the summer.

Wouldn't they need a UK (or American...) licence to operate to the States?

[jmdavies86]

They applied for a UK AOC in Dec 2021.

[davidjohnson6]

Voldemort shall be raised from the dead and return

[CabinCrewe]

LGW socials announcing ‘routes to be announced’ on FlyNorse.
It never worked first time…

[Seljuk22]

Qatar Airways resumes Doha from 5th June with daily B788
https://www.qatarairways.com/en/press-releases/2022/March/Qatar-Airways-to-Resume-Flights-to-London-Gatwick.html?activeTag=Press-releases

[CCFAIRPORT]

New Routes with Easyjet

Rennes
Limoges
Prishtina
Köln/Bonn

[Vokes55]

4 TUI ACMI aircraft will also operate from the South Terminal this summer, so now we have both EZY and TUI split between the two. Not sure why they haven’t just moved TUI to the South, especially with all the widebody stands that have been vacated by Norwegian available for the 787s.

[vectisman]

Maybe TUI do not want to go. Previously the 4 aircraft TUI wet leased from Norwegian during summers up to 2019 also operated from South so no real change. Those so called spare stands will be well used by the increased presence of Wizzair, EasyJet and Vueling. I don’t think they have to be used only by wide bodies.

[Vokes55]

Maybe TUI do not want to go. Previously the 4 aircraft TUI wet leased from Norwegian during summers up to 2019 also operated from South so no real change. Those so called stands will be well used by the increased presence of Wizzair, EasyJet and Vueling. I don’t think they have to be used only by wide bodies.

It’s not as simple as who “wants” to go where. If an airport is at capacity then they go where the airport tells them to. Given that TUI don’t own any facilities in the North Terminal, there’s nothing keeping them there. I don’t think either easy or TUI “want” to have a split operation either.

And no they don’t have to be used by widebodies. But only one widebody stand on Pier 2 has the ability to be split for use by two narrow bodies. The majority of the North Terminal stands can be.

This also causes problems with early long haul arrivals into North requiring two morning departures to have vacated their stands instead of just one.

[vectisman]

The airport is not at capacity by a long way since the pandemic. TUI have operated from North for many years. As I said the ACMI based aircraft for TUI have been based in South before so no real issue. You are seeing an issue where there is really nothing to see. With 79 based aircraft it is no wonder EasyJet have to split their operation in the same way as BA has to at Heathrow between terminals 3 and 5.

[vectisman]

I also think the split for EasyJet is due to the pattern of their operating ‘waves’ . These cause certain bulges during the day. To some extent TUI compliment them with longer average sector lengths and several long hauls a day. (a bit like Virgin did up to 2019)
In South most but not all BA long hauls will be gone by about 1400 which leaves capacity there.

[vectisman]

All that aside I am looking forward to BA short haul returning in a more meaningful way and the re-opening of South Terminal in general. Also hoping to be able to I use the BA lounge again.
Overall it should be a positive summer for Gatwick which it needs after two awful years.
Best wishes to all the staff both old and new atGatwick in whatever capacity they work both for the months ahead.

[Vokes55]

The airport is not at capacity by a long way since the pandemic. TUI have operated from North for many years. As I said the ACMI based aircraft for TUI have been based in South before so no real issue. You are seeing an issue where there is really nothing to see. With 79 based aircraft it is no wonder EasyJet have to split their operation in the same way as BA has to at Heathrow between terminals 3 and 5.

If the current schedule sticks then the airport will be at capacity this summer, in terms of aircraft movements and first wave stand occupation.

The difference before was that the TUI Norwegian flights were Norwegian flights with Norwegian flight numbers operating out the same terminal as every other Norwegian flight. Now they’re TUI flights, with TUI flight numbers split between two different terminals. TUI re-number these flights with BY5/BAL flight numbers, which causes all sorts of operational issues with flight planning and ATC. And as there are very few, if any, destinations that’ll be solely operated by ACMI, there is the inconvenience and confusion to passengers departing from one terminal and returning to another.

TUI and EZY have almost identical wave patterns out of LGW, so instead of having 12 EZY/TOM aircraft based at South, you’d have 13 TOM aircraft instead.

If it’s “finding a problem where there isn’t one”, why were BA and VS forced to go through the rigmarole of swapping terminals, including moving their own business class lounges, to allow EZY to operate under one roof before?

[vectisman]

I’m sorry but the Norwegian aircraft that operated for TUI used the flights designator BY. Agreed they operated from South as did all Norwegian flights. BA and VS swapped terminals because the VS pattern complimented the EZY pattern. Also at the time the BA short haul wave had expanded significantly up to 2017.
You know for certain that passengers will departing from on terminal and arriving at another? I suspect that most holidaymakers will be on 7 or 14 night trips in peak summer. Even if terminals are different it’s not that much of a bother at Gatwick.
When the initial swap took place on 2017 EasyJet had 19 fewer aircraft based at Gatwick.

[Vokes55]

I’m sorry but the Norwegian aircraft that operated for TUI used the flights designator BY. Agreed they operated from South as did all Norwegian flights. BA and VS swapped terminals because the VS pattern complimented the EZY pattern. Also at the time the BA short haul wave had expanded significantly up to 2017.
You know for certain that passengers will departing from on terminal and arriving at another? I suspect that most holidaymakers will be on 7 or 14 night trips in peak summer. Even if terminals are different it’s not that much of a bother at Gatwick.
When the initial swap took place on 2017 EasyJet had 19 fewer aircraft based at Gatwick.

The Norwegian flights used D89xxx. The flights only became BY5 when Norwegian pulled out due to their own Max shortage and the flights were taken over by Smartlynx and Titan (and then often sub chartered back to TUI)

Not sure what the point of this back and forth is. TUI will have 9 short haul aircraft based in the North that start and finish the day there. easyJet will have 8 aircraft based at the South that will start and finish the day there. Neither TUI or easy will want a split operation. Not saying there isn’t a reason why they didn’t just move TUI across, I’m just intrigued to know what it is.

[vectisman]

Well it has been an interesting discussion. Thanks for replying to me. Have a good weekend.

[vectisman]

One week until South Terminal re-opens. Looking forward to it.

[Jerbourg]

4 TUI ACMI aircraft will also operate from the South Terminal this summer, so now we have both EZY and TUI split between the two. Not sure why they haven’t just moved TUI to the South, especially with all the widebody stands that have been vacated by Norwegian available for the 787s.

I have a holiday booked with TUI, the confirmation e-mail states that my flight will be operated by Titan Airways using the BY flight designator, they will also op from the South Terminal, so presume this will be the ACMI for the whole of summer 2022.

[AirportPlanner1]

One week until South Terminal re-opens. Looking forward to it.

Looks like it hasn’t gone too well since they did some PR this morning for the grand reopening. Multiple delays across both terminals, reportedly not enough staff across everything. Baggage not being offloaded, steps not available etc. Perhaps fortunate the Easter rush is a little later this year, if they can get new starters online by then.

[The96er]

Looks like it hasn’t gone too well since they did some PR this morning for the grand reopening. Multiple delays across both terminals, reportedly not enough staff across everything. Baggage not being offloaded, steps not available etc. Perhaps fortunate the Easter rush is a little later this year, if they can get new starters online by then.

MAN,LGW,LHR and DUB all reporting the same operational issues. There’s no quick fix I’m afraid.

[BAladdy]

JetBlue are adding daily flights to Boston from 19th July 2022

[vectisman]

Does anyone have any information on what Virgin have done with their Gatwick slots for Summer 2022?
In Summer 2021 they returned 52 (26 pairs) weekly leased slots to Norwegian. Is this ongoing for Summer 2022, especially, with the 70/30 slot rule this summer? Do they still have any of their own?
British Airways dealt with the issue by leasing a total of 25 daily slot pairs to Vueling and EasyJet for Summer 2022. They are usingup to 54 slot pairs daily themselves this summer.

[compton3bravo]

Passed through Gatwick South on 17 April (Easter Sunday). Arrived at 0610 by taxi and TWO other cars in the drop off zone. The place was deserted, went straight through customs, staff very friendly some just chatting, nothing to do. Some outlets not open and only two places to eat. Flew Iberia Express although it should have been BA ( only used BA because I had a voucher which needed to be used). Flight average but nearly full.
What a difference at Malaga very busy and a lot warmer.
Prices in Spain have gone up but by no means as UK with diesel still some 15p a litre cheaper than UK. Restaurants seem to have slightly reduced portions and no increase and where not possible increased a bit.
Return on 26th Malaya very busy with flight on time.
One reminder make sure get your passport stamped on departure as you are only allowed to stay 90 days in any given 180 days whereas before you could stop 180 days in any given 360. One result of Brexit
Looks like Gatwick has a long way to go before being back to 'normal'.

[SealinkBF]

Air Transat launching Gatwick Quebec for 2022, once a week....wonder how that will play?

Appears to be a one-stop flight now. Or maybe one-change. Website indicates an almost four hour wait at Montreal.

EDIT 4/5/22: Non stop flights now showing on the Air Transat booking engine.

[YVRscot]

Appears to be a one-stop flight now. Or maybe one-change. Website indicates an almost four hour wait at Montreal.

I see this detail from the website travelmole dot com "Air Transat this month launches two routes from London to Quebec.

This week it relaunched its popular route from London Gatwick to Montreal for the first time since 2019.

Air Transat will initially offer three flights a week before ramping up to a daily service by the middle of summer.

On 12 May, Air Transat will launch the UK’s first non-stop Quebec City flight with a weekly service from London Gatwick.

In addition, Air Transat has increased its London Gatwick to Toronto service from three times a week to daily, with plans to fly twice daily by mid-summer."

[SealinkBF]

I see this detail from the website travelmole dot com "Air Transat this month launches two routes from London to Quebec.

This week it relaunched its popular route from London Gatwick to Montreal for the first time since 2019.

Air Transat will initially offer three flights a week before ramping up to a daily service by the middle of summer.

On 12 May, Air Transat will launch the UK’s first non-stop Quebec City flight with a weekly service from London Gatwick.

In addition, Air Transat has increased its London Gatwick to Toronto service from three times a week to daily, with plans to fly twice daily by mid-summer."

That's where I saw the link, but on Air Transat website couldn't see any non stops.

EDIT 4/5/22: Non stop flights now showing on the Air Transat booking engine.

[Del Prado]

Passed through Gatwick South on 17 April (Easter Sunday). Arrived at 0610 by taxi and TWO other cars in the drop off zone. The place was deserted, went straight through customs, staff very friendly some just chatting, nothing to do. Some outlets not open and only two places to eat. Flew Iberia Express although it should have been BA ( only used BA because I had a voucher which needed to be used). Flight average but nearly full.
What a difference at Malaga very busy and a lot warmer.
Prices in Spain have gone up but by no means as UK with diesel still some 15p a litre cheaper than UK. Restaurants seem to have slightly reduced portions and no increase and where not possible increased a bit.
Return on 26th Malaya very busy with flight on time.
One reminder make sure get your passport stamped on departure as you are only allowed to stay 90 days in any given 180 days whereas before you could stop 180 days in any given 360. One result of Brexit
Looks like Gatwick has a long way to go before being back to 'normal'.

3 weeks on and North Terminal was pretty busy today. Flights about 80% of 2019 but there seems a significant up tick in pax numbers compared with the last time I was here (April). Security last month was a nightmare, queued out of terminal building, took about an hour. Today is much better organised, staff shouting instructions, took 5 mins to get through.

your experience may have been partly due to south terminal reopened two weeks before and hence serving few flights.

[vectisman]

I had a very positive experience through Gatwick South Terminal two weeks ago. Smooth check-in and friendly efficient security. Excellent special assistance for my mother too. Return trip last week also positive, no queues at passport control and quick baggage reclaim. Great to be flying from Gatwick again.

[gdiddy]

Love this prank...
I'm sure it causes no issues for flight crew, but will sends passengers into a state of panic!
:)
ITV News - 'Welcome to Luton' prank leaves Gatwick airport arrivals in 'state of panic' (https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2022-05-22/welcome-to-luton-prank-leaves-gatwick-airport-arrivals-in-state-of-panic)

[JW95]

I'm noticing something strange on the LGW departure board today. There are about 4 flights listed under VS pre-Covid flight numbers (e.g. VS33, 27, 29, 65) to Antigua, Orlando, Bridgetown and Montego Bay, all of which are from VS' former base in the North Terminal. Is this some kind of internal error or an indication that VS are seriously looking into reinstating LGW operations sooner than originally planned? (IIRC, the CEO was quoted as saying that a return to LGW would not happen until next year at the earliest). Regardless, I'd love to see VS (and hopefully DL) back at LGW. Are there any other long haul developments in the pipeline for Gatwick?

[vectisman]

I'm noticing something strange on the LGW departure board today. There are about 4 flights listed under VS pre-Covid flight numbers (e.g. VS33, 27, 29, 65) to Antigua, Orlando, Bridgetown and Montego Bay, all of which are from VS' former base in the North Terminal. Is this some kind of internal error or an indication that VS are seriously looking into reinstating LGW operations sooner than originally planned? (IIRC, the CEO was quoted as saying that a return to LGW would not happen until next year at the earliest). Regardless, I'd love to see VS (and hopefully DL) back at LGW. Are there any other long haul developments in the pipeline for Gatwick?

I am of the opinion that is is an error. These flights maybe those which Virgin had the slots for if they had returned to Gatwick.
The CEO made it quite clear a few weeks ago that Virgin had no plans to run to Gatwick in 2022. Very non committal for 2023 too. In fact they may find it hard to ever come back if BA continue to expand their Caribbean and North American routes, plus Norse International setting up shop. Personally I believe with Heathrow becoming more expensive they may lose some of their competitive edge when trying to attract some of their former Gatwick leisure customers back who may be more price sensitive. However that’s just a personal view
Pre-Covid they were sending up to 5 or 6 wide bodies a day to leisure destinations from Gatwick. Not all of that market will follow them to Heathrow. BA is maintaining double daily to Orlando for example from Gatwick this Summer plus another daily from Heathrow. Their Caribbean flights are very profitable too. Plus somewhere like Cancun is now daily year round which is an increase from 2019.
I would like to know what Virgin have done with their Gatwick slots. We know that BA have leased some of theirs out until they are required again but I can see nothing concerning Virgin. Have they simply given them up? I have asked on several other forums but no information has been forthcoming.

[AirportPlanner1]

I was also wondering about the VS slots. I wonder if given their relationship with MAG they have STN as an option for leisure if/when they need to use their LHR portfolio more productively.

[vectisman]

I was also wondering about the VS slots. I wonder if given their relationship with MAG they have STN as an option for leisure if/when they need to use their LHR portfolio more productively.
I am not convinced that former Gatwick customers would journey to STN.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I was also wondering about the VS slots. I wonder if given their relationship with MAG they have STN as an option for leisure if/when they need to use their LHR portfolio more productively.
Stansted long haul is relatively much weaker vs. Gatwick which is a country mile weaker than Heathrow. They've already stated they see a return to LGW, although words mean little in such a fluid marketplace.

[CabinCrewe]

I was also wondering about the VS slots. I wonder if given their relationship with MAG they have STN as an option for leisure if/when they need to use their LHR portfolio more productively.
That’s going nowhere.

[True Blue]

I see from their website that Norse Atlantic has 2 routes on sale now from Lgw, New York and Oslo, daily flights to each. Is the Oslo route just a slot sitter?

[BA318]

I see from their website that Norse Atlantic has 2 routes on sale now from Lgw, New York and Oslo, daily flights to each. Is the Oslo route just a slot sitter?

At the moment it looks like a positioning flight which they are selling tickets for.

[Wycombe]

At the moment it looks like a positioning flight which they are selling tickets for.
Reading elsewhere that apparently Fort Lauderdale will be the second LGW to US route. JFK starts 12th August.

[JW95]

I am of the opinion that is is an error. These flights maybe those which Virgin had the slots for if they had returned to Gatwick.
The CEO made it quite clear a few weeks ago that Virgin had no plans to run to Gatwick in 2022. Very non committal for 2023 too. In fact they may find it hard to ever come back if BA continue to expand their Caribbean and North American routes, plus Norse International setting up shop. Personally I believe with Heathrow becoming more expensive they may lose some of their competitive edge when trying to attract some of their former Gatwick leisure customers back who may be more price sensitive. However that’s just a personal view
Pre-Covid they were sending up to 5 or 6 wide bodies a day to leisure destinations from Gatwick. Not all of that market will follow them to Heathrow. BA is maintaining double daily to Orlando for example from Gatwick this Summer plus another daily from Heathrow. Their Caribbean flights are very profitable too. Plus somewhere like Cancun is now daily year round which is an increase from 2019.
I would like to know what Virgin have done with their Gatwick slots. We know that BA have leased some of theirs out until they are required again but I can see nothing concerning Virgin. Have they simply given them up? I have asked on several other forums but no information has been forthcoming.

I think the CEO mentioned recently that they still have ownership of their slot portfolio at LGW, as confirmed in this recent article:
https://simpleflying.com/virgin-atlantic-no-plan-london-gatwick-return-2022/

"Traditionally, we have flown leisure routes out of Gatwick. We have slots at Gatwick and we would like to think there is an opportunity for Gatwick. But it’s not this year."

What VS are doing with them in the interim, however, largely remains unknown. Presumably leasing them to another carrier at LGW, but not sure which one? Would definitely love to know more.

[JW95]

I see from their website that Norse Atlantic has 2 routes on sale now from Lgw, New York and Oslo, daily flights to each. Is the Oslo route just a slot sitter?
Fantastic news- will be great seeing their 789s at LGW! Anyone know which terminal they'll be using?

[BA318]

Lots of images of very long queues at LGW for BA check in. What is the issue? Just short of staff?

[CabinCrewe]

Lots of images of very long queues at LGW for BA check in. What is the issue? Just short of staff?
Still dont really get why people are surprised by this. Upcoming bank holidays adding to mix.

[vectisman]

Still dont really get why people are surprised by this. Upcoming bank holidays adding to mix.

Totally agree.
Holiday times have always been busy. Recovery after two awful years will not be easy.

Today people expect everything 100% all the time plus everything on demand. The real world has never operated like that and never will.

[BA318]

Totally agree.
Holiday times have always been busy. Recovery after two awful years will not be easy.

Today people expect everything 100% all the time plus everything on demand. The real world has never operated like that and never will.

Probably because many airlines are charging extremely high prices. Plus half the carriers spent last year telling us they were ready. Finally if Ryanair can manage to operate their schedules pretty well without all of these constant problems then it must be possible.

[CabinCrewe]

BA planned short term cancellation of ISB until W22. Will it ever come back? (DOH and JFK will be hit too).

[JW95]

BA planned short term cancellation of ISB until W22. Will it ever come back? (DOH and JFK will be hit too).
Not really surprised about DOH, now with QR returning to LGW, are they/BA planning on reinstating LGW-DOH once the winter timetables come online, or will it move back to LHR? With JFK, that's a shame, seeing as its only just been reinstated, and provides some nice competition for JetBlue, and soon, Norse.

[Vokes55]

BA planned short term cancellation of ISB until W22. Will it ever come back? (DOH and JFK will be hit too).

They’ve been pretty heavy on cabin crew hiring for the LGW 777 fleet recently, but courses not starting until September due to LHR courses taking priority, so assume this may be a factor.

JFK and DOH pax can easily be transferred to other services, ISB is low yielding and BA know cancelling that won’t create as much negative publicity as cancelling kids summer holidays to Orlando.

[vectisman]

Gatwick New York resumes normal service on Monday. Doha is still inbound normally. Could be taking cargo outbound. Doha also resumes normal service on Monday. They must be recruiting more cabin crew for a reason though.

[vectisman]

I believe some 777 maintenance ends this weekend!

[Musket90]

Hope the BA Doha flight isn't affected in the coming weeks as I'm booked on it !

[True Blue]

Looks like JetBlue is going 2 daily to JFK from next May according to their site.

[JW95]

Air Asia X is reportedly looking to return to LGW later this year, this time with an LGW-DXB-KUL routing using A333s. Apparently D7 already has secured slots at LGW. Will be interesting to see if/how this turns out.

source: https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2022/06/15/air-asia-x-mulls-london-return-soon/

[pamann]

Gatwick in the news today for all the wrong reasons…

The first story is a sad read.

Disabled easyJet passenger falls to his death on escalator at Gatwick Airport (https://metro.co.uk/2022/06/17/disabled-easyjet-passenger-falls-to-his-death-on-escalator-at-gatwick-airport-16843409/amp/)

Gatwick cuts summer flights after staff shortages (http://Gatwick cuts summer flights after staff shortages https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61835843)

[davidjohnson6]

Is it just a bit of a coincidence that Gatwick have made this announcement 14 days before 1 July, thus giving airlines a way to avoid EU261 liability ?

[SWBKCB]

‘Staff shortages were not a factor in this incident as has been claimed. It is normal for one staff member to disembark three passengers who require assistance by taking them one at a time the short distance to the waiting buggy.

So it's 'normal' to have one staff member for three pax? Good job they didn't have to deal with Wardair.

[Wycombe]

Arrived into LGW about midnight last night, no delays getting off the aircraft, through immigration, receiving baggage, getting the bus to Long Term, or anything really!

When we left a week previously, North Terminal was rammed at 4am, but straight through (EZY) bag drop, security and 0610 flight departed on time.

Just thought I'd record my experience as the media hate a positive story.

Have just seen the sad story of the fatality, those escalators (for the bridge) are very high :*

[VickersVicount]

Arrived into LGW about midnight last night, no delays getting off the aircraft, through immigration, receiving baggage, getting the bus to Long Term, or anything really!

When we left a week previously, North Terminal was rammed at 4am, but straight through (EZY) bag drop, security and 0610 flight departed on time.

Just thought I'd record my experience as the media hate a positive story.

Have just seen the sad story of the fatality, those escalators (for the bridge) are very high :*
Suspect the critical part there is arrived at ‘midnight’…

[Wycombe]

Suspect the critical part there is arrived at ‘midnight’…

At this time of year there are a steady stream of arrivals at LGW into the small hours.

I remember, in pre-covid times, waiting a lot longer late at night for the baggage belt to start moving!

[DaveReidUK]

Have just seen the sad story of the fatality, those escalators (for the bridge) are very high

Escalators of any height should be treated with great respect as the consequences of a fall will typically be more severe than on a similar-sized stairway.

As it happens, my wife had a slight mishap on the LGW Skybridge last Saturday, falling backwards on it - fortunately on the down side, thereby escaping with just a few scratches and a bruised ego.

[Musket90]

I wonder if these flight cut totals announced for July and August include the cancelled flights that Easyjet and others may have notified the airport in advance about. If not then the daily movements could turn out to be less than stated..

[TBSC]

I wonder if these flight cut totals announced for July and August include the cancelled flights that Easyjet and others may have notified the airport in advance about. If not then the daily movements could turn out to be less than stated..
My thoughts exactly. Wizz need a good excuse as well to cut schedule without losing even more face.

[davidjohnson6]

Is there any intention by Gatwick's main airlines, to state *publicly* when the cancelling of summer flights is completed ? With 75 out of 900 flights being cut in July, that gives a 1-in-12 chance of a flight being cancelled - far too high for most people to consider booking a flight from LGW when LHR, LTN and STN are not affected as severely

[toledoashley]

Is there any intention by Gatwick's main airlines, to state *publicly* when the cancelling of summer flights is completed ? With 75 out of 900 flights being cut in July, that gives a 1-in-12 chance of a flight being cancelled - far too high for most people to consider booking a flight from LGW when LHR, LTN and STN are not affected as severely

I wouldn’t be surprised with the number of cancellations I saw last week for August, that its already happened - https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220615-u2jul22lgw?rq=Easyjet

[Mr Optimistic]

Anything going on at Gatwick just now ? Daughter says terminal shut and no access to train station. Bailed by taxi.
edit : police incident apparently.

[VickersVicount]

Well Scoot didn’t last long…. Slightly predictable to be honest.

[JW95]

Well Scoot didn’t last long…. Slightly predictable to be honest.
Even so, a shame, and yet another long haul loss for LGW :( Will this also mean that LGW will no longer have any flights to Asia? Would love to see GIP/LGW rebuild some of the links it had to Asia/the Far East it had before Covid broke out. Not everyone prefers having to use LHR, especially now with charges going up.

[TCAS FAN]

[QUOTE=JW95;11252952......Will this also mean that LGW will no longer have any flights to Asia? ......[/QUOTE]

Emirates through DXB does me fine.

[BA318]

Even so, a shame, and yet another long haul loss for LGW :( Will this also mean that LGW will no longer have any flights to Asia? Would love to see GIP/LGW rebuild some of the links it had to Asia/the Far East it had before Covid broke out. Not everyone prefers having to use LHR, especially now with charges going up.

charges at LHR aren’t going up. The regulator decided to lower them.