Gatwick-3

[samj]

Not surprised, winter isn't great for loadings is it?

[Sotonsean]

Not surprised, winter isn't great for loadings is it?

Well obviously compared to the summer season it isn't.

My post was for informative purposes only.

[Paulesx]

Not sure what's happening with Bamboo flights, when looking at the bamboo website and then the GDS seems the flights are pricing properly up until 24 September, after which time the GDS shows blocked inventory on all classes, could they be closing the route?


So looks likes it now official , albeit ending in October as opposed to September

[nguba]

As has been widely reported many aircraft diversions & flight cancellations tonight due ATC staff shortages at Gatwick.

[davidjohnson6]

As has been widely reported many aircraft diversions & flight cancellations tonight due ATC staff shortages at Gatwick.
What's the real reason for this ? Genuine sickness epidemic ? Lousy pay and people leaving ? Something else ? Would be keen to understand the root cause of this, preferably without political point scoring or PR "edited" press releases

[MARK 101]

Interestingly BHX was Notammed for reduced ATC cover from 0400-0600 this week as well. Didnt affect flights at those hours, but is there an issue brewing with ATC staff

[SWBKCB]

Interestingly BHX was Notammed for reduced ATC cover from 0400-0600 this week as well. Didnt affect flights at those hours, but is there an issue brewing with ATC staff

It's not brewing - it's been managed since Covid, and not just in the UK.

[Apron Artist]

Looks like it's going pear-shaped today - U2 have so far cancelled 26 departures. Presume weather related.

[pabely]

Why weather? An EZY diverted to LTN and a WUK to STN? ATC issues again?

[Apron Artist]

Why weather? An EZY diverted to LTN and a WUK to STN? ATC issues again?

Even though I left earlier this year, I still receive all the alerts and details of what's going on. Any ATC issues would result in me receiving a message on my phone - this hasn't happened. Weather-wise, thunderstorms are forecast any time up to 06:00 local tomorrow. U2 appear to be a lot quicker to chop flights from the 3rd wave than was the case about a year ago when they would simply wait until everything was beyond recovery and a total shambles.

[FlyboyUK]

Yes was weather related

[772]

BA wise for w23

SJO, BGI and CPT all return

ACC replaces YVR

s24

YVR not returning with ACC remaining

increases in LAS and MCO frequency

LIM and YYZ not to return (these were pre covid routes)

BA SH w23

OPO, FUE, ALG and INN all return with DBV going year round

[772]

Even though I left earlier this year, I still receive all the alerts and details of what's going on. Any ATC issues would result in me receiving a message on my phone - this hasn't happened. Weather-wise, thunderstorms are forecast any time up to 06:00 local tomorrow. U2 appear to be a lot quicker to chop flights from the 3rd wave than was the case about a year ago when they would simply wait until everything was beyond recovery and a total shambles.

this change ins very noticeable as soon as ATC / weather issues are predicted or known about as you rightly say EZY take an axe to their third wave.

this sometimes turns out to be a good decision and sometimes it’s OTT if issues don’t manifest themselves as expected.

but being preemptive and canx say 20 departures early enough means circa 3,500 fewer pax to have to manage/decontrol etc if it all goes wrong late afternoon/evening and removing these flights adds to the operational resilience of the flights that are left.

[772]

Apologies if it’s been mentioned but Air Mauritius and Ethiopian are launching at LGW for w23

[SWBKCB]

but being preemptive and canx say 20 departures early enough means circa 3,500 fewer pax to have to manage/decontrol etc if it all goes wrong late afternoon/evening and removing these flights adds to the operational resilience of the flights that are left.

Running an airline would be easy if wasn't for those inconvenient passengers, wanting to go places.

this sometimes turns out to be a good decision and sometimes it’s OTT if issues don’t manifest themselves as expected.

Yep, guess who was stuck away from home for three days when the issue leading to the preemptive decision didn’t manifest itself as expected

[Sotonsean]

[QUOTE=772;11505509]Apologies if it’s been mentioned but Air Mauritius and Ethiopian are launching at Gatwick

Apologies accepted.

Yes I can assure you that the majority of us on this thread are already aware of that as it's been mentioned and discussed several times in previous post's, including my own.

Both airline announcements we're made many months ago and were duly posted on this thread.

Air Mauritius commences 29 October 2023
Ethiopian Airlines commences 21 November 2023

But nice to know that your on top it with regards to recent airline announcements 🙂

aeroroutes.com is a recommended site 👍

[vectisman]

BA Gatwick to Doha finishes on March 30th 2024
BA Gatwick to Vancouver returns April 2024 for a longer season 6 weekly. This was announced yesterday.
Kingston, Las Vegas and Orlando all see frequency increases for Summer 2024.

Porto and Algiers transfer from this October not next Summer and operate year round.

[vectisman]

772
Vancouver is returning next summer.
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230918-bans24inc

Accra also begins at Gatwick this winter and looks like to be year round at 3 weekly in addition to Heathrow which is daily.

[Sotonsean]

BA Gatwick to Doha finishes on March 30th 2024
BA Gatwick to Vancouver returns April 2024 for a longer season 6 weekly.
Kingston, Las Vegas and Orlando all see frequency increases for Summer 2024.

With British Airways historically flying from LHR to DOH I've never seen the point of them operating LGW to DOH as well. Especially with Qatar Airways also operating LGW to DOH with upto twice daily flights.

There's enough capacity at LHR for summer 2024 with Qatar Airways offering upto eight daily flights along with a daily flight with British Airways.

Another LGW long haul destination with British Airways that's due to resume is Accra. Even though it has yet to start I can't see it being around for long.

[shlamps]

With British Airways historically flying from LHR to DOH I've never seen the point of them operating LGW to DOH as well. Especially with Qatar Airways also operating LGW to DOH with upto twice daily flights.

It was a nightmare flying with BA through DOH connecting onto a QR flight. Having to queue at the transfer desk on the outbound for ages was just crazy. Took about 1.5hours earlier in the year. QR never an issue when both legs.

[vectisman]

With British Airways historically flying from LHR to DOH I've never seen the point of them operating LGW to DOH as well. Especially with Qatar Airways also operating LGW to DOH with upto twice daily flights.

There's enough capacity at LHR for summer 2024 with Qatar Airways offering upto eight daily flights along with a daily flight with British Airways.

Another LGW long haul destination with British Airways that's due to resume is Accra. Even though it has yet to start I can't see it being around for long.

The Accra service may be around longer than you think. The new Ghana Airlines wants to fly to London. If they don’t get into LHR and have to go to LGW. BA May we’ll be asked to move all Accra to LGW too. We shall have to wait and see. Just my non expert opinion.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The Accra service may be around longer than you think. The new Ghana Airlines wants to fly to London. If they don’t get into LHR and have to go to LGW. BA May we’ll deceive to move all Accra to LGW too. We shall have to wait and see. Just my non expert opinion.
Didn't the govt of Ghana threaten to revoke BA's route authority unless they continued to serve LHR? They had intended to drop LHR-ACC entirely in favour of LGW.

[vectisman]

Didn't the govt of Ghana threaten to revoke BA's route authority unless they continued to serve LHR? They had intended to drop LHR-ACC entirely in favour of LGW.
Yes, but if Ghana Airlines doesn't get access to Heathrow the Ghanian government may not be happy about BA keeping their flights from Heathrow. Could be interesting diplomacy!

I think the reason for the Gatwick 3 weekly service is that BA wants to increase capacity on this route but doesn't wish to use another Heathrow slot and has spare slots at Gatwick. Could also be a testing of the water exercise. It has obviously been approved by the Ghanian authorities partly I expect because the Heathrow flights are also continuing. They are also probably looking ahead to their own airline being given permission to serve the route.

[Apron Artist]

this change ins very noticeable as soon as ATC / weather issues are predicted or known about as you rightly say EZY take an axe to their third wave.

this sometimes turns out to be a good decision and sometimes it’s OTT if issues don’t manifest themselves as expected.

but being preemptive and canx say 20 departures early enough means circa 3,500 fewer pax to have to manage/decontrol etc if it all goes wrong late afternoon/evening and removing these flights adds to the operational resilience of the flights that are left.

23rd October 2022. A date etched in my soul. A storm cell sitting over Gatwick for hours. I arrived at at 17:00 hrs to see pier 5 full of aircraft loaded with pax and and bags, jetties off, waiting to go. Crew rapidly running out of hours. Then the cancellations. Total carnage. Passengers off, planes towed to remote stands to allow inbounds a stand. Bags still on them. Thousands of offloaded pax waiting 5+ hours in baggage reclaim, taxiways blocked by aircraft awaiting a stand.

Offloaded baggage was nothing to do with me, but the "big" boss at the time asked me to go and talk to the poor passengers waiting for their bags, as I was closest. The subsequent 3 hrs of justified abuse was the catalyst to my decision to leave. I don't mind being called an "f.....g c...t" as it's probably true, but the spitting was the final straw.

Cancelling some of wave 3 helps, however it is usually too late for a lot of passengers who are en route/already checked bags in. When you suddenly get a list of 25+ flights that are cancelled, all the bags already checked-in have to be returned to baggage reclaim. I had barely enough staff to sort the outbound baggage, losing 3 or 4 to return cancelled flight baggage was a kick in the teeth.

200+ departures a day for U2 is fanciful at best, downright negligent in reality. U2 and LGW got greedy, writing cheques they couldn't cash.

[vectisman]

I believe next year at Gatwick Easyjet are reducing the Gatwick based fleet. Three aircraft I have heard will be re-deployed to Birmingham to open the base there. Other older aircraft will be returned to
lessors or redeployed to other bases. This is due to both over optimistic scheduling this summer and the need to return leased slots to BA/IAG.

[772]

The LGW-ACC is curious and definitely a wait and see route as to what BA do with it medium term

[Musket90]

It was a nightmare flying with BA through DOH connecting onto a QR flight. Having to queue at the transfer desk on the outbound for ages was just crazy. Took about 1.5hours earlier in the year. QR never an issue when both legs.

I did the same last year but didn't need to go to transfer desk as it was BA/QR Codeshare so went straight through security to departure lounge without delay as I already had boarding pass for onward QR flight.

[Sotonsean]

The LGW-ACC is curious and definitely a wait and see route as to what BA do with it medium term

Exactly and that's why I mentioned it in my previous post.

We are all aware of the fact that the newly formed national airline for Ghana as in Ghana Airways are looking at operating to London with their fleet of three brand new B789s. An official announcement is due shortly. Whether they are able to obtain slots at LHR is another thing but I have no doubt that they will eventually gain slots ar LGW.

Is the reason for British Airways to resume LGW-ACC to increase capacity on the route without using valuable slots at LHR. Or has British Airways struck a deal with the Ghanaian authorities to operate LGW-ACC so that a potential Ghana Airways ACC-LGW route can operate without any objections regarding to any service to or from LHR.

I'm sure we will know in due course and I believe that it's going to be announced before the end of the year. Ghana Airways flying from Accra to London and I'm fairly certain that the London airport will be LGW rather than LHR.

Perhaps the above is the actual reason why British Airways are resuming LGW-ACC.

Regardless of all that it's great to see another long haul destination as well as another intercontinental country being added to the airports route portfolio.

[Apron Artist]

Problems, again, at LGW...ATC and LVP...

[vectisman]

Problems, again, at LGW...ATC and LVP...
Not sure what LVP is but not all airlines seem to be affected. BA has a couple off delays,
nothing excessive, but EasyJet more cancellations and delays. Perhaps owing to their much greater first wave out.

[SWBKCB]

LVP - Low Viz Procedures

[vectisman]

LVP - Low Viz Procedures
Thank you.

[Apron Artist]

LGW has a very weird micro-climate. Being on the river Mole, you often - especially at this time of year - get a load of fog that is not there even 1 mile from the airport. Many a time I left at at 06:00 in thick fog, yet Horley, less than a mile away was clear. And it lingers, sometimes for hours.

easyJet had scheduled 222 departures out of a total 434 today. Naturally, ATC and LVP affects them far more than the next highest airline, BA Euroflyer on 47. I hope I'm wrong, but I expect many more cancellations.

[vectisman]

LGW has a very weird micro-climate. Being on the river Mole, you often - especially at this time of year - get a load of fog that is not there even 1 mile from the airport. Many a time I left at at 06:00 in thick fog, yet Horley, less than a mile away was clear. And it lingers, sometimes for hours.

easyJet had scheduled 222 departures out of a total 434 today. Naturally, ATC and LVP affects them far more than the next highest airline, BA Euroflyer on 47. I hope I'm wrong, but I expect many more cancellations.

Thanks for the informantion. I think that 47 includes the BA long haul flights too and the mainline Glasgow flight.

[Apron Artist]

Thanks for the informantion. I think that 47 includes the BA long haul flights too and the mainline Glasgow flight.


My apologies, yes. The data I get doesn't split the two entities. Tampa cancelled mainline. Not the first.

[YVRscot]

Norse has futher trimmed their seasonal flights to San Francisco. All flights after Oct 7th ( including mine!) have now been cancelled. No alternative or compensation offered.

[Sotonsean]

Norse has futher trimmed their seasonal flights to San Francisco. All flights after Oct 7th ( including mine!) have now been cancelled. No alternative or compensation offered.

Norse Atlantic announced a couple of weeks ago that San Francisco was being axed from it's network. Although LGW-SFO was seasonal the route won't be returning for summer 2024.

You mentioned that all flights after October 07 2023 have been cancelled.

Norse Atlantic had originally stated that the last flight between LGW and SFO would be on the 28 October, at the end of the IATA northern summer 2023 season.

[Albert Hall]

Norse has futher trimmed their seasonal flights to San Francisco. All flights after Oct 7th ( including mine!) have now been cancelled. No alternative or compensation offered.

Although they are only required to compensate you if the cancellation is within two weeks of departure, they are required to re-route you on another airline if you wish. Sounds like they think that only applies within two weeks too, which isn’t correct.

[Kiltrash]

Can I just say well done London Gatwick. We are here flying to Venice and both Easy Bag Drop and Security were a breeze. Both swift and polite all round...

[Dct_Mopas]

Can I just say well done London Gatwick. We are here flying to Venice and both Easy Bag Drop and Security were a breeze. Both swift and polite all round...

Can’t be quite so congratulatory of the Gatwick ATC management yet again today. Flow rate restriction of 16 arrivals per hour. Absolutely shambolic.

Not a dig at your post Kiltrash - glad you had a good experience. Sadly for arriving passengers in LGW today then very big delays knocking into departures as the afternoon progressed.

[Apron Artist]

Can’t be quite so congratulatory of the Gatwick ATC management yet again today. Flow rate restriction of 16 arrivals per hour. Absolutely shambolic.

Not a dig at your post Kiltrash - glad you had a good experience. Sadly for arriving passengers in LGW today then very big delays knocking into departures as the afternoon progressed.

Yup...again. 35 U2 departures cancelled so far...the clusterf.ery I predicted in March has been played out far too often this summer. Awful for the passengers.

[nguba]

A daily cap of 800 flight movements a day is in place until 1st October:

https://www.mediacentre.gatwickairport.com/news/london-gatwick-temporarily-limits-flight-numbers-to-protect-flights-and-provide-certainty-to-passengers-following-recent-air-traffic-control-issues-1ddd-40f32.html

[Kiltrash]

While waiting for our flight to show gate no we noticed U28011 dep time 09.15 was shown as please wait....this got my curiosity and the aircraft arr into LGW on time at 08.10 according to FR24.... it eventually took off 12.24 so I thought ' tech issue ' ...perhaps just a flow rate issue ....Did feel sorry for the SLF..🙁

[Charley B]

While waiting for our flight to show gate no we noticed U28011 dep time 09.15 was shown as please wait....this got my curiosity and the aircraft arr into LGW on time at 08.10 according to FR24.... it eventually took off 12.24 so I thought ' tech issue ' ...perhaps just a flow rate issue ....Did feel sorry for the SLF..🙁
Our friends were on that flight,it was an issue with their flight plan which tower told Captain about as they had waited to go at the hold ..they had togo back to stand to refuel etc …they did indeed get away after 12.00 ..it wasn’t connected with the other issue ..the aircraft’s third sector of its day was canx .

[davidjohnson6]

Is the limit on flights at Gatwick due to genuine illness amongst ATC staff, or is there any sort of deliberate sick-out ?
If it's genuine, are there any underlying factors (e.g. disgruntled staff), lousy planning of training junior staff or maybe overwork and burn-out of staff over the peak summer or is it a case of a lot of different uncontrollable factors like Covid all coming at once ?
Is this likely to be just for a few days, or is there a non-trivial chance of an announcement this will continue into early October, or be in effect during half term as well ?

[Splat]

Good question, as someone on the receiving end I’d like to know the answer too.

[jmdavies86]

Is the limit on flights at Gatwick due to genuine illness amongst ATC staff, or is there any sort of deliberate sick-out ?

Well, according to this article in the Belfast Telegraph (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/six-belfast-flights-cancelled-with-more-disruption-expected-over-air-traffic-control-problems/a1954943951.html), the cap will run until Sunday and has been imposed as 30% of NATS tower staff are unavailable for a variety of medical reasons, including COVID.

[Charley B]

Good question, as someone on the receiving end I’d like to know the answer too.

Excellent article from Michele Robson who was a controller for NATS for over 20 yearsGatwick launches flight curb due to ATC staffinghttps://www.turningleftforless.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/gatwick-airport-aerial-image-showing-north-terminal-airfield-1-twitter-1024x568.jpg

You may have seen a few stories in the press recently (https://www.mirror.co.uk/travel/uk-ireland/air-traffic-controller-says-gatwick-30949950) about the delays at Gatwick as a result of a lack of ATC staff. To put it in context, ATC towers at airports are managed by separate ATC companies who bid for the contract. This is unlike the two UK ATC centres that are run by NATS as a monopoly and subject to price regulations by the CAA. At airports, the airport owner decides how much they are willing to pay for ATC and accepts a bid based on price and performance.

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NATS inherited the staff from the previous company, so they had no control over how many they would get. Controllers can choose to transfer to the new company or leave. Unfortunately, you can’t just transfer controllers from say Heathrow, as a) they still need extensive training to work at Gatwick and b) then it leaves Heathrow short. You also can’t train new controllers quickly as it takes around 18 months at a minimum, and only around 1% of those that apply make it through to be a live controller.

At airports, they are very susceptible to lack of staff due to sickness as they only have a small number of staff due to the number of positions in a tower plus contingency. No ATC provider can afford to have unlimited numbers of staff sitting around when they are competing on price. Once NATS have trained more controllers, then staff sickness will not cause such an issue. According to Gatwick airport, 30% of NATS tower staff are currently unavailable for a variety of medical reasons including covid.

So this leaves us in the situation today where Gatwick today implemented a temporary limit on daily flight movements to prevent delays and last-minute cancellations for passengers.

The decision was made alongside NATS, and means the airport will be limited to 800 flights a day. This means both departure and arrival flights. The restrictions start today and will remain in place until Sunday, 1 October.

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“We are working closely with NATS to build resilience in the control tower, and this decision means we can prevent as much disruptions as possible.

“London Gatwick would like to apologise to any passengers who have been impacted by these restrictions.”
Before the limit was put in place the movements expected for this week were as follows:

Tuesday- 800 movements
Weds – 829 movements
Thursday – 840 movements
Friday –865 movements
Saturday – 800 movements
Sunday – 830 movements

As it has only just been announced, I have not heard of specific cancellations, but if you have a booking this week from Gatwick I would be keeping a close eye on it.

[Splat]

I do wonder if all this goes back to that t@at MOL pushing fares down. Eventually everyone’s costs are squeezed so low either other ancillaries such as drop off charges are needed, or there is a reduction in service levels which is where we are at.

[lfc84]

I do wonder if all this goes back to that t@at MOL pushing fares down. Eventually everyone’s costs are squeezed so low either other ancillaries such as drop off charges are needed, or there is a reduction in service levels which is where we are at.
Their ops at LGW is tiny

[Splat]

Their ops at LGW is tiny

Thats not the point.

[FlyingRex]

Excellent article from Michele Robson who was a controller for NATS for over 20 yearsGatwick launches flight curb due to ATC staffing
Great article, thanks for sharing this

[Charley B]

Glad it was enjoyed..after ready many OTT newspaper ones ,that was well written and to the point ..I know that a good few NATS controllers left the tower in 2014 and it seems the German Co did not recruit many after they took over ..leaving NATS very short now

[FlyingRex]

Good to see an article with actual statistics and reasoning behind it... Just need a few more controllers which is easier said then done

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I do wonder if all this goes back to that t@at MOL pushing fares down. Eventually everyone’s costs are squeezed so low either other ancillaries such as drop off charges are needed, or there is a reduction in service levels which is where we are at.
The impact was more that full service carriers introduced the bundling concept in pursuit of maintaining market share even though their business models are not competitive on price. Ryanair delivers to expectations, some full service carriers with legacy brands do not.

[SWBKCB]

But Ryanair have lead the charge on airport costs

[TartinTon]

I do wonder if all this goes back to that t@at MOL pushing fares down. Eventually everyone’s costs are squeezed so low either other ancillaries such as drop off charges are needed, or there is a reduction in service levels which is where we are at.

You're clearly confused. This is NATS, nothing to do with Ryanair. This seems to be just gross mismanagement and a board (including some prominent airlines BA, Easyjet etc) prioritising shareholder return over system/staff investment. £550 million returned to shareholders over the last few years with an ever-decreasing service to the airline community from which they derive their income.

[SWBKCB]

You're clearly confused. This is NATS, nothing to do with Ryanair. This seems to be just gross mismanagement and a board (including some prominent airlines BA, Easyjet etc) prioritising shareholder return over system/staff investment. £550 million returned to shareholders over the last few years with an ever-decreasing service to the airline community from which they derive their income.

NATS have to compete to get the LGW ATC contract, so will be looking to provide it at the lowest cost. They may not be directly involved, but Ryanair have been at the vanguard of the push to reduce airport costs leading to reduced T&C's and lower staffing levels which are now across the industry. This is the point being made. As we regularly see there is now little flex in the system for when sh*t happens, and we all know it happens often enough

[strawberry Ribena]

Anyone know who has the contract for Air Mauritius/Ethiopian/China Southern?

[daz211]

Funny how Ryanair end up getting the blame for everything, it’s obviously nothing to do with Ryanair.

I read somewhere that some airlines may be operating from alternative Airports for a short period, I can’t find it now and not sure if I read it properly, has anyone heard anything along those lines or was I imagining it.

[Dannyboy39]

NATS have to compete to get the LGW ATC contract, so will be looking to provide it at the lowest cost.
Compete with whom exactly?

[jumpseater]

Compete with whom exactly?

Quite simple, the exact answer is they have to compete with other Air Navigaton Service Providers who could/would bid on the service provision contract.

[Hial Flyer]

Compete with whom exactly?

Other ANSPs like DFS. NATS lost the Gatwick contract in 2014 to DFS, as Gatwick Airport obviously wanted a cheaper option. DFS bailed out last year and didn't complete the contract and NATS have had to go back in and sort it out. If Gatwick airport had left NATS in the tower they probably wouldnt have been in this mess now.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The concept of ATC based on price is weapons grade foolishness. There are some things that should be open to competitive tendering but ATC provision has VERY few specialist providers of which NATS is one.

[davidjohnson6]

Railtrack

[Sotonsean]

The other week several of us on here were debating possible long haul contenders at LGW.

We discussed several possible candidate's including China Southern Airlines which we eventually dismissed.

How things change in such a short space of time.

China Southern Airlines announces Zhengzhou to London Gatwick.

Effectivel 12 December 2023 and operated twice weekly by B788.

CZ653 CGO 14.00 LGW 17.20 days 26 788
CZ654 LGW 20.20 CGO 15.00+1 days 26 788

Meanwhile Sri Lankan Airways want to add an additional three flights between Colombo and LHR. The airline currently operates the route on a daily basis but wants to increase it to 10 weekly.

The airline has recently stated in the travel media that those extra three flights might be difficult to obtain at LHR due to a lack of available and suitable slots.

Debating the topic again, could Sri Lankan Airlines be a possible future contender for LGW. Of course, it would be a service resumption for the airline. Air Lanka which the airline was previously known as flew to LGW from 1979 to 1991.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Sri Lankan have 9 weekly LHR slots in winter I think? UL505 runs weekends in addition to the daily UL 503.

[Sotonsean]

Sri Lankan have 9 weekly LHR slots in winter I think? UL505 runs weekends in addition to the daily UL 503.

To be totally honest Skip when I originally read the article regarding those extra three flights I was sort of under the impression that they flew at least twice daily on certain day's during the winter.

They were leasing some slots at some point. Perhaps it's those extra flights during the winter season that they want to make permanent.

On side note. It's great to see the beautiful country of Sri Lanka on the rebound after such a tormented period. There has been a lot of positive coverage of the country on TV over the last year and lots of YouTube footage. After previously visiting Sri Lanka on several occasions I can only hope that the increase in trade as well as travel and tourism will benefit the entire country.

[pabely]

So much for flow control restrictions this week, taking a Jet2 diversion today, Ok it was PAN so emergency but STN only up road - and a BizJet arrival today. Couldn't the later movement been used for an Easyjet canx flight?

[irishlad06]

So much for flow control restrictions this week, taking a Jet2 diversion today, Ok it was PAN so emergency but STN only up road - and a BizJet arrival today. Couldn't the later movement been used for an Easyjet canx flight?

in the jet2 diversion case this was a medical emergency that required immediate medical intervention - STN might only be up the road but so too is EMA it’s final destination. The flight deck must have deemed it serious enough to get straight on the ground otherwise surely 10mins more and they could have been at EMA. There are also a lot more factors to consider in a medical divert and going to a base where there is no Jet2 ground staff is again not advised unless in an emergency and clearly this was.

[Alsacienne]

How long until the present situation is resolved? Thought I'd heard that from 1 October all would be well .... please update.

[pabely]

in the jet2 diversion case this was a medical emergency that required immediate medical intervention - STN might only be up the road but so too is EMA it’s final destination. The flight deck must have deemed it serious enough to get straight on the ground otherwise surely 10mins more and they could have been at EMA. There are also a lot more factors to consider in a medical divert and going to a base where there is no Jet2 ground staff is again not advised unless in an emergency and clearly this was.
More about the BizJet than a PAN

[SWBKCB]

The flow isn't consistent throughout the day, so if the bizjet comes in when Easyjet don't want to fly, why should it be restricted?

[pabely]

According to Gatwick announcement Thursday – 840 movements - throttled back to 800. Tell that to the customers inconvenienced.

[JW95]

The other week several of us on here were debating possible long haul contenders at LGW.

We discussed several possible candidate's including China Southern Airlines which we eventually dismissed.

How things change in such a short space of time.

China Southern Airlines announces Zhengzhou to London Gatwick.

Effectivel 12 December 2023 and operated twice weekly by B788.

CZ653 CGO 14.00 LGW 17.20 days 26 788
CZ654 LGW 20.20 CGO 15.00+1 days 26 788

Meanwhile Sri Lankan Airways want to add an additional three flights between Colombo and LHR. The airline currently operates the route on a daily basis but wants to increase it to 10 weekly.

The airline has recently stated in the travel media that those extra three flights might be difficult to obtain at LHR due to a lack of available and suitable slots.

Debating the topic again, could Sri Lankan Airlines be a possible future contender for LGW. Of course, it would be a service resumption for the airline. Air Lanka which the airline was previously known as flew to LGW from 1979 to 1991.

Excellent news RE. China Southern Airlines coming to Gatwick :) Looking forward to seeing their 787 here. Still no word on Cathay Pacific returning to Gatwick though :( Hoping they will come back as well.

With Sri Lankan Airlines, I could see them potentially doing what Air Mauritius have done and move over to LGW, provided that available slots and timings work for them.

[Sotonsean]

Excellent news RE. China Southern Airlines coming to Gatwick :) Looking forward to seeing their 787 here. Still no word on Cathay Pacific returning to Gatwick though :( Hoping they will come back as well.

With Sri Lankan Airlines, I could see them potentially doing what Air Mauritius have done and move over to LGW, provided that available slots and timings work for them.

Out of all people I knew that you would appreciate this latest info JW95. What surprised me was the length of time it took you to respond. Out of all people I honestly thought that you would have been the first.

Nonetheless great news for LGW.

I sort of agree with your assumption regarding Sri Lankan Airways but I have to admit that I'm not as optimistic as you are regarding the immediate return of Cathay Pacific Airways. But then again it was only a few weeks that I remember that we both agreed that LGW would probably not see China Southern Airlines.

I think none of us on here ever expected Saudia to announce LGW. We were all excited to see the eventual return of Delta. But in my opinion I would be extremely surprised if Delta actually resumed JFK-LGW for summer 2024.

As I mentioned in my previous post, things can change so quickly so you never know who will be the next long haul candidate to LGW or for that matter the next long haul airline to leave LGW.

With LGW it almost seems as one long haul airline leaves another announces service to LGW. That's why the list of overseas long haul airline's at LGW always hovers to around 12 at anyone time.

[vectisman]

My personal view is that Virgin will not be back for the foreseeable future.
As for Cathy Pacific, I think that will depend on the continued recovery of the London to Hong Kong market.

[Sotonsean]

My personal view is that Virgin will not be back for the foreseeable future.
As for Cathy Pacific, I think that will depend on the continued recovery of the London to Hong Kong market.

And I second that 👍

[pabely]

TAAG Angola to start 16th December 3 weekly with 773ERs

[Sotonsean]

TAAG Angola to start 16th December 3 weekly with 773ERs

Great news and highly anticipated. Definitely a great addition to the airports long haul airline portfolio.

I ask this question every time a new long haul airline is announced at LGW.

Who's next 🤔

I await the response from JW95, I'm sure he will be excited with this latest addition to LGW.

[Asturias56]

"TAAG Angola to start 16th December 3 weekly with 773ERs"

avoid....................................

[JW95]

Great news and highly anticipated. Definitely a great addition to the airports long haul airline portfolio.

I ask this question every time a new long haul airline is announced at LGW.

Who's next 🤔

I await the response from JW95, I'm sure he will be excited with this latest addition to LGW.

Thank you for thinking of me my friend, Sotonsean , appreciated as always :) Apologies for the lack of my replies recently (owing to illness over the last couple of weeks).

That is fantastic news regarding TAAG Angola. A nice addition to the long haul airline and route portfolio at LGW- will look forward to seeing their livery on the 77W at Gatwick soon :)

With regards to Cathay Pacific returning, I agree with you, although am still hoping they will resume service to Gatwick sometime in 2024. Cathay are actually reverting to an all, 5 daily 77W operation at LHR from early March, and I expect this to continue going into S24 schedules. With this in mind, capacity to HKG is definitely on the rise, so hopefully a sign that the market is recovering. London has also always been a key market for Cathay, and they won't be able to expand further at LHR due to slot constraints etc. So I'm hopeful that we will see Cathay's A350 back at Gatwick soon, perhaps initially at a lower frequency before gradually increasing. The airline is still aggressively targeting a full 100% pre-Covid capacity by close of next year, although I am unsure if they plan on resuming some of the "thinner" long haul routes that were introduced under Rupert Hogg during 2016-19, including Gatwick.

With VS- I too agree that we won't be seeing them back at LGW for some time to come sadly :( Does anyone know if they still control their slot portfolio at LGW, or did they end up having to return it? I think a return will largely depend on whether VS decide to target increased leisure route expansion, which was traditionally kept at LGW while the more business-orientated routes were consolidated at LHR. If they do decide on opening up and/or increasing capacity on the "bucket and spade" routes, then I think they may have another look at moving the leisure network back to Gatwick (or at the very least some of it), as this would also maximise their slot utilisation at LHR. At least we still have Delta here servicing JFK, even though this has now been reduced to a seasonal operation.

[vectisman]

I am of the opinion that in the longer term Virgin may regret stopping all their operations from Gatwick. In their absence BA and Norse have increased
their presence in North America and the Caribbean. Furthermore other operators are beginning to use the slots that are favourable for transatlantic flights.
In addition there has to be a limit to how many new destinations and frequency increases Virgin can add at Heathrow owing to slot availability.
BA were relatively quick to move Orlando back to Gatwick after the pandemic and haven't moved Tampa to Heathrow after Virgin began their Heathrow to Tampa service.
Maybe these destinations do better from Gatwick in terms of the market they are trying to attract. We shall see.

I also believe BA will increase their long haul Gatwick 777 fleet back to at least 15 aircraft again in the medium term as more new long haul aircraft are delivered to Heathrow.

It will also be interesting to see how Virgin respond if Gatwick manages to bring its Northern runway into routine use before the 3rd runway is built at Heathrow, which I personally feel will happen.
BA are watching this closely too as they commented at their last results meeting for the 3rd quarter.

[Rutan16]

I am of the opinion that in the longer term Virgin may regret stopping all their operations from Gatwick. In their absence BA and Norse have increased
their presence in North America and the Caribbean. Furthermore other operators are beginning to use the slots that are favourable for transatlantic flights.
In addition there has to be a limit to how many new destinations and frequency increases Virgin can add at Heathrow owing to slot availability.
BA were relatively quick to move Orlando back to Gatwick after the pandemic and haven't moved Tampa to Heathrow after Virgin began their Heathrow to Tampa service.
Maybe these destinations do better from Gatwick in terms of the market they are trying to attract. We shall see.

I also believe BA will increase their long haul Gatwick 777 fleet back to at least 15 aircraft again in the medium term as more new long haul aircraft are delivered to Heathrow.

It will also be interesting to see how Virgin respond if Gatwick manages to bring its Northern runway into routine use before the 3rd runway is built at Heathrow, which I personally feel will happen.
BA are watching this closely too as they commented at their last results meeting for the 3rd quarter.

I am of the opinion that whilst Virgin Atlantic (mainline) aren’t returning anytime soon. Virgin International may yet with a small 333 base to operate to Barbados and tags beyond.
The floated Barbados regional service needs this feed to work as described.

The point to point operations may well remain at Heathrow .

[JW95]

I am of the opinion that whilst Virgin Atlantic (mainline) aren’t returning anytime soon. Virgin International may yet with a small 333 base to operate to Barbados and tags beyond.
The floated Barbados regional service needs this feed to work as described.

The point to point operations may well remain at Heathrow .

On the flip side though, VS may determine that the costs of re-establishing a small base at LGW with relatively few weekly frequencies may make a return to Gatwick less feasible (e.g. hiring ground staff, setting up a Club House etc). Don't get me wrong, I would love nothing more than for VS to return to Gatwick, as they have history here, but they may just opt to consolidate at LHR (for now) and save £££ by not re-opening their LGW base. Assuming they still have slots at LGW, they will need to make a long-term decision on this sooner or later, especially now with other airlines expanding (Norse Atlantic, BA, JetBlue).

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Virgin closed their hangar and the base and the Clubhouse. I think it's better to look forward than back, makes no sense to open LGW as a new base. Without a Clubhouse the loyal customer base won't be pleased and they still have the option of using the one at LHR and connecting on DL on whatever route was shifted to LGW. So there's a fair bit of new fixed costs before that's likely IMHO.

[CabinCrewe]

Why is Saudia going from daily to 4/wk?

[vectisman]

Why is Saudia going from daily to 4/wk?
I believe the reduction is for winter only.

[galgurl]

On the flip side though, VS may determine that the costs of re-establishing a small base at LGW with relatively few weekly frequencies may make a return to Gatwick less feasible (e.g. hiring ground staff, setting up a Club House etc). Don't get me wrong, I would love nothing more than for VS to return to Gatwick, as they have history here, but they may just opt to consolidate at LHR (for now) and save £££ by not re-opening their LGW base. Assuming they still have slots at LGW, they will need to make a long-term decision on this sooner or later, especially now with other airlines expanding (Norse Atlantic, BA, JetBlue).


They do still have their Head office for the airline and Virgin Atlantic Holidays in Crawley,
it will be interesting to see if Delta return for summer 2024.

[davidjohnson6]

Atlantic Airways to resume flights to Vagar in the Faroe Islands in summer 2024
https://check-in.dk/kort-nyt/

I'm guessing Easyjet's route to Tel Aviv that was due to start later this month might be deferred a bit

[Sotonsean]

Atlantic Airways to resume flights to Vagar in the Faroe Islands in summer 2024
https://check-in.dk/kort-nyt/

I'm guessing Easyjet's route to Tel Aviv that was due to start later this month might be deferred a bit

The Faroe Islands have recently become that much popular and the destination has featured in many travel articles and YouTube channels.

But I'm surprised that this resumption didn't return to London Stansted over London Gatwick but nonetheless a nice addition to the Gatwick airline route portfolio.

[pabely]

The Faroe Islands have recently become that much popular and the destination has featured in many travel articles and YouTube channels.

But I'm surprised that this resumption didn't return to London Stansted over London Gatwick but nonetheless a nice addition to the Gatwick airline route portfolio.
I always thought Stansted was used before because of zero slot availability pre-covid at Gatwick so not a surprise to me.

[Sotonsean]

I always thought Stansted was used before because of zero slot availability pre-covid at Gatwick, so it's not a surprise to me.

Well, they previously operated Vagar to STN for several seasons, albeit on a very limited summer schedule.

Atlantic Airways initiated Vagar to London Stansted via Sumburgh in 2006. Vagar to London Stansted direct from 2008 until 2012. In 2013, Atlantic Airways initiated Vagar to London Gatwick for one season. Atlantic Airways returned to the Vagar to London Stansted route in 2014. Atlantic Airways didn't operate the route in 2015.

The resumption of Vagar to London Gatwick by Atlantic Airways means that it will be 11 years since they last operated to London Gatwick.

Atlantic Airways operated Vagar to STN for far longer than Vagar to LGW did. Hence why I'm surprised that they didn't resume STN over LGW.

But as I mentioned in my previous post, it's a great addition to the Gatwick airline and route portfolio.

[Sotonsean]

Does anyone have any further information regarding TAAG Angola Airlines and their plans to inaugurate Luanda to London Gatwick.

TAAG announced a few months ago that they would commence service three times weekly in December 2023. There are no flights bookable on their official website or any news items related to London.

TAAG Angola Airlines has even been removed from the London Gatwick Wikipedia page.

It'll be a shame if TAAG Angola Airlines are not going ahead with their planned Luanda to London service.

On another note.

An article I've recently read on another aviation website mentions that Air Zimbabwe hopes to resume service between Harare and London Gatwick in January 2024, flying three times weekly with a Boeing 767-300.

Air Tanzania have previously stated that they also intend on resuming service between Dar Es Salaam and London Gatwick once the airline receives it's third Boeing 787-8. Air Tanzania hopes to receive their third Boeing 787-8 in Q2 2024.

That could possibly be upto three African national airline's joining the ever growing long haul airline network at London Gatwick.

Also on another note.

Regarding South African Airways. Do or more to the point did they previously lease their slots at London Heathrow?

South African Airways is yet to resume flights between Johannesburg and London Heathrow. The airline has only just recently resumed flying long haul with flights between Cape Town and Johannesburg and Sao Paulo.

If and when South African Airways announces a resumption of service between Johannesburg and London I wonder if the airlines previous slots at London Heathrow are still available to them. The airline has as most of you know, experienced a very turbulent few years and more.

"Perhaps" the cash strapped carrier "might" consider London Gatwick if they can't obtain the suitable slots for a return to London Heathrow.

[Link Kilo]

Westjet's LGW-YYC service no longer seems to be bookable for S24.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Westjet's LGW-YYC service no longer seems to be bookable for S24.
Nor is LHR from the end of June...either London is dropped or maybe rejigging to a new expanded LHR schedule?

[CabinCrewe]

Westjet's LGW-YYC service no longer seems to be bookable for S24.
May fit with theory YYZ and YHZ are back on the cards and a reshuffle. Always knew focussing on YYC was not the way forward for WJ.

[adfly]

May fit with theory YYZ and YHZ are back on the cards and a reshuffle. Always knew focussing on YYC was not the way forward for WJ.
SeanM1997 on Twitter is reporting they are launching 4x weekly YHZ and 3x weekly YYT next summer, so they are not dropping LGW entirely.

[JW95]

Does anyone have any further information regarding TAAG Angola Airlines and their plans to inaugurate Luanda to London Gatwick.

TAAG announced a few months ago that they would commence service three times weekly in December 2023. There are no flights bookable on their official website or any news items related to London.

TAAG Angola Airlines has even been removed from the London Gatwick Wikipedia page.

It'll be a shame if TAAG Angola Airlines are not going ahead with their planned Luanda to London service.

On another note.

An article I've recently read on another aviation website mentions that Air Zimbabwe hopes to resume service between Harare and London Gatwick in January 2024, flying three times weekly with a Boeing 767-300.

Air Tanzania have previously stated that they also intend on resuming service between Dar Es Salaam and London Gatwick once the airline receives it's third Boeing 787-8. Air Tanzania hopes to receive their third Boeing 787-8 in Q2 2024.

That could possibly be upto three African national airline's joining the ever growing long haul airline network at London Gatwick.

Also on another note.

Regarding South African Airways. Do or more to the point did they previously lease their slots at London Heathrow?

South African Airways is yet to resume flights between Johannesburg and London Heathrow. The airline has only just recently resumed flying long haul with flights between Cape Town and Johannesburg and Sao Paulo.

If and when South African Airways announces a resumption of service between Johannesburg and London I wonder if the airlines previous slots at London Heathrow are still available to them. The airline has as most of you know, experienced a very turbulent few years and more.

"Perhaps" the cash strapped carrier "might" consider London Gatwick if they can't obtain the suitable slots for a return to London Heathrow.

Regarding SAA, I'd say an entry into LGW is definitely possible. There have been examples of airlines in recent years who have had to sell their LHR slots for some £££s and relocate elsewhere in London. Cyprus Airways did just this when they left LHR and moved to STN in 2014, and Air Mauritius have done something similar recently by relocating the London route to LGW and increasing it to daily. So SAA may do something similar, but I'd reckon they will do everything they can to remain at LHR first prior to considering LGW as a last resort. Gatwick has admittedly done very well this year in diversifying its airline and route mix and the long haul airline composition is now looking a lot better than it did during Covid, similar to what we saw in 2019, so hopefully they can continue to attract new airlines here. Carriers at LGW pre-Covid in 2019 that are no longer here include:

China Airlines- Now at LHR, so doubtful they'd come back to Gatwick, unless they really needed to increase frequency and need access to additional London airport slots.

Cathay Pacific - Discussed previously in this thread. Looking ahead to 2024, and depending on the progress of their capacity recovery programme, I hope CX will be back operating at LGW next year. LHR has already begun reverting to the pre-pandemic 5 daily 77W operation, so hopefully LGW will be re-opened, as the route worked well alongside the airline's Heathrow operation up to the pandemic.

Norwegian (long haul) - Ceased operations during Norwegian's restructuring. Now largely replaced by Norse Atlantic.

RwandAir - Moved to LHR during the pandemic. Unlikely to see them back at Gatwick again.

Virgin Atlantic - Closed LGW in May 2020 to consolidate at LHR during the pandemic. CEO mentioned last November that connectivity seems to be a priority for them now, that LGW lacks, so a return to LGW seems unlikely in the near future sadly, although they could return if they needed to shift some of their leisure/beach routes to LGW in order to free up expansion at their main LHR base.

WestJet - Previously served LGW year-round, although will return to Gatwick with routes to Halifax and St John's with the 737-MAX in S24, albeit seasonally only.

[vectisman]

Virgin expansion at Heathrow is somewhat limited by their finite number of slots. In fact they rarely expand at Heathrow, as in the past they have tended to drop a route when introducing a new one!
Funny how they used to manage to fill several 747s a day from Gatwick without all the connectivity they now talk about at Heathrow. I expect quite a few passengers did 'connect' in a way to their flights from Gatwick
using other carriers such as easyjet.
With an expanding fleet and limited potential at Heathrow I suspect Gatwick will have to be revisited sometime in the future.
Even with all this connectivity at Heathrow they still find it difficult to be profitable.

I remain hopeful that Cathay will return as they recover to pre-covid levels of capacity.

As for Westjet, dropping Toronto from Gatwick was not the best of moves. Air Transat have reaped the benefits there. The BA summer seasonal to Vancouver was also successful and is returning in 2024 with a longer season.

[JW95]

Virgin expansion at Heathrow is somewhat limited by their finite number of slots. In fact they rarely expand at Heathrow, as in the past they have tended to drop a route when introducing a new one!
Funny how they used to manage to fill several 747s a day from Gatwick without all the connectivity they now talk about at Heathrow. I expect quite a few passengers did 'connect' in a way to their flights from Gatwick
using other carriers such as easyjet.
With an expanding fleet and limited potential at Heathrow I suspect Gatwick will have to be revisited sometime in the future.
Even with all this connectivity at Heathrow they still find it difficult to be profitable.

I remain hopeful that Cathay will return as they recover to pre-covid levels of capacity.

As for Westjet, dropping Toronto from Gatwick was not the best of moves. Air Transat have reaped the benefits there. The BA summer seasonal to Vancouver was also successful and is returning in 2024 with a longer season.

I think VS made a big mistake leaving LGW, as BA have since expanded, Norse, and JetBlue have entered etc. Slots at LGW will become more difficult to secure as the airport continues to recover and expand on its airline portfolio. The most obvious thing for VS to do would be to relocate their Caribbean and Orlando routes back to Gatwick if they'd want to expand - but again, slot restrictions at Gatwick may prevent this from happening. VS had mentioned when leaving LGW in May 2020 that they would be retaining their slots at Gatwick for a return in the future, but much has changed since then, and I'm not even sure VS have ownership of any slots at LGW anymore? I also agree with the comments RE. connectivity- VS maintained and managed a large base at LGW since its inception in 1984 right through to 2020 perfectly fine, specifically with their point-to-point leisure/beach flights, so unsure how excess connectivity at LHR is benefitting VS in practice on these holiday routes in terms of profit. Either way, they need to make a decision on Gatwick soon if they are serious about expanding again.

Regarding Cathay- I hope so :) I miss seeing their A359 at the South Terminal. With the withdrawal of VS from HKG, and the fact that BA have reduced capacity to HKG than pre-covid, I would have thought that Cathay will seek to add additional London capacity going forward. LHR is full, and CX is unable to acquire additional slots there, so I reckon this will incentivise them to look at reopening LGW next year. I remember speaking with the CX ground teams in LGW about how well the route was doing, and they mentioned it had become one of the stronger, new "thinner" routes.

[davidjohnson6]

I think VS made a big mistake leaving LGW, as BA have since expanded, Norse, and JetBlue have entered etc. Slots at LGW will become more difficult to secure as the airport continues to recover and expand on its airline portfolio. The most obvious thing for VS to do would be to relocate their Caribbean and Orlando routes back to Gatwick if they'd want to expand - but again, slot restrictions at Gatwick may prevent this from happening. VS had mentioned when leaving LGW in May 2020 that they would be retaining their slots at Gatwick for a return in the future, but much has changed since then, and I'm not even sure VS have ownership of any slots at LGW anymore? I also agree with the comments RE. connectivity- VS maintained and managed a large base at LGW since its inception in 1984 right through to 2020 perfectly fine, specifically with their point-to-point leisure/beach flights, so unsure how excess connectivity at LHR is benefitting VS in practice on these holiday routes in terms of profit. Either way, they need to make a decision on Gatwick soon if they are serious about expanding again
In 2020 while Covid was raging and airlines were haemorraghing money... a lot of difficult and major decisions had to be made very quickly. People had ample reason to be very pessimistic about the future of aviation at the time. It has taken a long time for long-haul demand, and particularly business travel, to recover. Virgin can be thankful they are still around and in reasonably good financial health.

[Sotonsean]

JW95

As much as I admire your enthusiasm and we seem to agree on many topics but I have to admit that I am not as pessimistic as you are regarding the return of Virgin Atlantic to London Gatwick

I honestly can't see it happening.

I'm also not as pessimistic as you regarding the subsequent return of Cathay Pacific to London Gatwick.

Hong Kong as a destination both for business and leisure has diminished a lot over the last few years and not all of it due to the pandemic.

Cathay Pacific obviously wanted to return to pre-pandemic levels at London Heathrow with five daily flights. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the airline will return anytime soon to London Gatwick. I'm sure that Cathay Pacific could or would obtain additional slots at London Heathrow if they really wanted to add an additional daily flight.

Cathay Pacific resumed flying between Hong Kong and London Gatwick on 02 September 2016 after a 25-year absence. It was, as you say, a slim long haul route that was operating with some success.

But a lot has changed between London and Hong Kong in recent years, and I'm certain that the current five daily flights offered by Cathay Pacific from London Heathrow are sufficient enough for the airline.

With British Airways reducing capacity between London Heathrow and Hong Kong, this gives you an idea of how the demand for the route has declined. Especially compared to several years ago, and that's disregarding the pandemic.

I know that the Cathay Pacific A350 looked lovely at the South Terminal, and I'm sure that you have the memories, but they remain as such. Memories are always there, plus images, of course.

Regarding memories, I still vividly remember the day that I was on the observation deck at London Gatwick on Friday, the 18th of July 1980. On that day Boeing 747-200 VR-HIA operating CX201, the inaugural flight from Hong Kong Kai Tak Airport via Bahrain landed at London Gatwick.

On a side note, it's a shame to see the recent decline in traffic between London and Hong Kong.
Hong Kong as the destination is without doubt in my top three favourite worldwide cities.

Edit....the use of pessimistic should, of course, be meant to have been optimistic, silly error on my behalf.

[vectisman]

Sotonsean don’t you mean you are not as ‘optimistic’ rather than ‘ pessimistic ‘?

[JW95]

JW95

As much as I admire your enthusiasm and we seem to agree on many topics but I have to admit that I am not as pessimistic as you are regarding the return of Virgin Atlantic to London Gatwick

I honestly can't see it happening.

I'm also not as pessimistic as you regarding the subsequent return of Cathay Pacific to London Gatwick.

Hong Kong as a destination both for business and leisure has diminished a lot over the last few years and not all of it due to the pandemic.

Cathay Pacific obviously wanted to return to pre-pandemic levels at London Heathrow with five daily flights. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the airline will return anytime soon to London Gatwick. I'm sure that Cathay Pacific could or would obtain additional slots at London Heathrow if they really wanted to add an additional daily flight.

Cathay Pacific resumed flying between Hong Kong and London Gatwick on 02 September 2016 after a 25-year absence. It was, as you say, a slim long haul route that was operating with some success.

But a lot has changed between London and Hong Kong in recent years, and I'm certain that the current five daily flights offered by Cathay Pacific from London Heathrow are sufficient enough for the airline.

With British Airways reducing capacity between London Heathrow and Hong Kong, this gives you an idea of how the demand for the route has declined. Especially compared to several years ago, and that's disregarding the pandemic.

I know that the Cathay Pacific A350 looked lovely at the South Terminal, and I'm sure that you have the memories, but they remain as such. Memories are always there plus images of course.

Regarding memories, I still vividly remember the day that I was on the observation deck at London Gatwick on Friday 18th of July 1980. On that day Boeing 747-200 VR-HIA operating CX201 the inaugural flight from Hong Kong Kai Tak Airport via Bahrain landed at London Gatwick.

On a side note it's a shame to see the recent decline in traffic between London and Hong Kong.
Hong Kong as the destination is without doubt in my top three favourite worldwide cities.

Sotonsean, we absolutely do, and I always enjoy and appreciate seeing your posts and insights on this and other threads :)

With regard to what has been happening at London Gatwick this year- 2023 has been a good one as far as new airlines and pre-Covid resumptions are concerned, and things have happened that no one expected. For instance, Air India was a surprise to many of us, as was Air Mauritius moving from LHR and China Southern joining Gatwick from next month. I doubt people saw these coming. Stranger things have happened and do happen, so I wouldn't entirely rule out seeing Cathay Pacific back at Gatwick again. However, much of this is going to depend on the recovery of the LON-HKG market as well as CX's prioritisation of route resumptions going into 2024. Only time will tell of course, but hopefully 2024 will build on the success of this year for Gatwick.

[Sotonsean]

Sotonsean don’t you mean you are not as ‘optimistic’ rather than ‘ pessimistic ‘?

Many thanks for the correction.

It was a silly grammatical mistake on my behalf, but if you look at the time it was posted, it might explain the reason why, although no excuses.

At least I got the "mistic" part 👍

[Sotonsean]

Sotonsean, we absolutely do, and I always enjoy and appreciate seeing your posts and insights on this and other threads :)

With regard to what has been happening at London Gatwick this year- 2023 has been a good one as far as new airlines and pre-Covid resumptions are concerned, and things have happened that no one expected. For instance, Air India was a surprise to many of us, as was Air Mauritius moving from LHR and China Southern joining Gatwick from next month. I doubt people saw these coming. Stranger things have happened and do happen, so I wouldn't entirely rule out seeing Cathay Pacific back at Gatwick again. However, much of this is going to depend on the recovery of the LON-HKG market as well as CX's prioritisation of route resumptions going into 2024. Only time will tell of course, but hopefully 2024 will build on the success of this year for Gatwick.

I appreciate your first paragraph and the comments and I totally agree with you. I too always appreciate seeing your posts and engaging with you. There's been a lot of good news to discuss about on here in 2023 regarding London Gatwick as you have rightly pointed out in your post.

Regarding new or resumption of airlines at London Gatwick in 2023.

Out of all those airlines starting service to London Gatwick in 2023 there is one particular airline that shocked us the most. That airline was in my opinion Saudia. Having never previously used LGW it came as a huge surprise when they first announced Jeddah to London Gatwick.

Most if not all of the other airline announcements for London Gatwick in 2024 we're either service resumptions or new short haul entrants.

Service resumptions in one way or another for the following airlines such as,

Air Algérie
Air China
Air India
Air Mauritius
Atlantic Airways
China Eastern
Delta
Ethiopian Airlines
Lufthansa

Hopefully TAAG Angola Airlines are still intending on starting Luanda to London Gatwick in December as originally planned. But I have a feeling that this has either been cancelled or delayed by the airline.

I do however agree with you to some extent regarding Cathay Pacific so I won't elaborate any further on the subject.

Hopefully 2024 will be another bumper year for London Gatwick with even more airline announcements particulary regarding long haul.

Best regards 👍

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Not sure about Virgin needing to be at Gatwick to grow. Looking at average movements per week from pre COVID peak to this summer :

LGW N 2019S 31 2023S 0 -31 -100.0%
LHR T3 2019S 174 2023S 215 +41 +23.6%
MAN T2 2019S 35 2023S 27 -08 -22.9%

[Sotonsean]

Not sure about Virgin needing to be at Gatwick to grow. Looking at average movements per week from pre COVID peak to this summer :

LGW N 2019S 31 2023S 0 -31 -100.0%
LHR T3 2019S 174 2023S 215 +41 +23.6%
MAN T2 2019S 35 2023S 27 -08 -22.9%

Very interesting comparisons, I'm pleased that you posted it. I'm totally with you regarding Virgin not needing Gatwick to grow especially after looking at those statistics. I'm sure your agree with me when say that I can't honestly see Virgin reappearing at Gatwick. No lounge, no staff, no hanger, no slots (more than likely), no gate availability, and last but not least, no need to. 😉

The only connection Virgin will probably have with Gatwick in the future is the training centre. But then again that could easily be relocated at some point closer to Heathrow.

[JW95]

Very interesting comparisons, I'm pleased that you posted it. I'm totally with you regarding Virgin not needing Gatwick to grow especially after looking at those statistics. I'm sure your agree with me when say that I can't honestly see Virgin reappearing at Gatwick. No lounge, no staff, no hanger, no slots (more than likely), no gate availability, and last but not least, no need to. 😉

The only connection Virgin will probably have with Gatwick in the future is the training centre. But then again that could easily be relocated at some point closer to Heathrow.

I think you're spot on with this Sotonsean. Sadly I think we will need to accept that VS' time at LGW has happened and is now in the past :( As you point out, there is no longer any "VS infrastructure" here at Gatwick that they could readily use, with all signs of their former base now having been removed (the ClubHouse being one example). A shame given Virgin Atlantic's long history with London Gatwick, the original home base of the airline. However, whilst we may never see VS return to Gatwick, I do agree with you wholeheartedly that LGW's best days lie ahead of it, and that includes new carriers coming to the airport in years ahead, as well as further expansion from existing airlines. For instance, I am sure that BA will increase their long haul programme as further 777s make their way to LGW from LHR. Further long haul may also come from carriers in Asia and the Middle East.

[Sotonsean]

I think you're spot on with this Sotonsean. Sadly I think we will need to accept that VS' time at LGW has happened and is now in the past :( As you point out, there is no longer any "VS infrastructure" here at Gatwick that they could readily use, with all signs of their former base now having been removed (the ClubHouse being one example). A shame given Virgin Atlantic's long history with London Gatwick, the original home base of the airline. However, whilst we may never see VS return to Gatwick, I do agree with you wholeheartedly that LGW's best days lie ahead of it, and that includes new carriers coming to the airport in years ahead, as well as further expansion from existing airlines. For instance, I am sure that BA will increase their long haul programme as further 777s make their way to LGW from LHR. Further long haul may also come from carriers in Asia and the Middle East.

Thanks for the nice reply. Once again both in agreement 🤝

Regarding further British Airways B777s making their way to LGW from LHR. I'm curious to what new long haul destinations British Airways would consider from LGW with additional B777s.

It's a difficult one to answer in my opinion but it'll be quite interesting nonetheless. After all I don't think that the majority of us on here ever expected British Airways to announce Aruba. Perhaps a return to Mahe in the Seychelles. Maybe even Saint Maarten considering that they announced Aruba. I'd be interested to know your thoughts on possible future long-haul destinations for British Airways from LGW.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Still no word on Cathay Pacific returning to Gatwick though :( Hoping they will come back as well.
Contrary to what has been said earlier, Cathay are only currently bookable at 4 x daily LHR-HKG next summer with quite a few A359s in the mix, so still well down on 5 x daily B77Ws.
BA are in an odd position with saying that LGW long haul has no plans for Club Suites, so growth either comes from a sub fleet of Club Suite fitted ex LHR machines or some refit of the the three oddball machines with 14F seats in G-VIIV/W/Y. LGW fleet is now dedicated at 10 airframes all with old Club World.
G-VIIO G-VIIP G-VIIR G-VIIT G-VIIU G-VIIX C32W52Y252 = 336
G-YMMA G-YMMB G-YMMC G-YMMD G-YMME G-YMMF C32W52Y252 = 332

[vectisman]

Gatwick needs 12 777s for the current schedule. Two Heathrow 777s with Club Suites will rotate through Gatwick during the winter as the Gatwick 777s have maintenance at Cardiff.

There are 12 dedicated Gatwick 777s not 10.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I listed 12 above, quite right, 10 was a brain fart.
My point about Club Suite stands though.

[JW95]

Contrary to what has been said earlier, Cathay are only currently bookable at 4 x daily LHR-HKG next summer with quite a few A359s in the mix, so still well down on 5 x daily B77Ws.
BA are in an odd position with saying that LGW long haul has no plans for Club Suites, so growth either comes from a sub fleet of Club Suite fitted ex LHR machines or some refit of the the three oddball machines with 14F seats in G-VIIV/W/Y. LGW fleet is now dedicated at 10 airframes all with old Club World.
G-VIIO G-VIIP G-VIIR G-VIIT G-VIIU G-VIIX C32W52Y252 = 336
G-YMMA G-YMMB G-YMMC G-YMMD G-YMME G-YMMF C32W52Y252 = 332

I think they're still rejigging/finalising the S24 schedules and a/c for LHR-HKG, so this is more than likely to change from the current 77W/A359 mix.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

It was 5 x B77W bookable recently though, demand remains softened I believe.

[pamann]

Anyone in the know… What was the deal with the BAW9170 LGW-MNL on the A380 this morning?

A rather unusual routing and aircraft for BA at Gatwick.

[englishcc]

I think the A380 was down to best departure time for slots in to Manilla. The 0200 approx departure would nt be able to operate ex LHR.

[vectisman]

Anyone in the know… What was the deal with the BAW9170 LGW-MNL on the A380 this morning?

A rather unusual routing and aircraft for BA at Gatwick.
Aircraft was enroute to Manila for maintenance. It goes via Gatwick to avoid the Heathrow curfew. It left Gatwick about 0230 to arrive in Manila at the permitted time.
This routing has been used several times before. The crew taking the aircraft out are expected to bring back the A380 already there that has completed maintenance.

[Charley B]

Aircraft was enroute to Manila for maintenance. It goes via Gatwick to avoid the Heathrow curfew. It left Gatwick about 0230 to arrive in Manila at the permitted time.
This routing has been used several times before. The crew taking the aircraft out are expected to bring back the A380 already there that has completed maintenance.
They most certainly are,BA9171 G-LXEA is on its way back to LHR as I type

[davidjohnson6]

Has anybody here tried out the new rail station concourse ? Would be interested to hear opinions from those who fly regularly and are able to speak freely without any conflict-of-interest, and not having to worry about an employer, editorial influence or blog audience.

[inOban]

The railway community have good things to say. It will be interesting to see if pprune agrees.

[Cazza_fly]

The railway community have good things to say. It will be interesting to see if pprune agrees.

I have to say its a much welcomed improvement!

There's still areas that could be iimprovedupon further and seemingly some ongoing finishing off works, as to be expected these days. But overall, it's better. I feel there could be increased signage at certain points along the platforms - to aid arriving customers and create a better continuous flow up out onto the concourse. That's just an observation though. Mainly because the majority of people passing through here are not regulars. We all know people lose any sense of direction and mind as soon as they're in the vicinity of an airport! :}

[Asturias56]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-67473995

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/23936937.gatwick-airports-revamped-railway-station-opens-passengers/

have pictures - looks alot better

[pabely]

£249m for a Station upgrade, makes Luton Airport Parkway good value for money with an automated people carrier to the terminal which the travel costs will help to recover build costs. Has Gatwick Airport chipped in for the costs?

[pamann]

£249m for a Station upgrade, makes Luton Airport Parkway good value for money with an automated people carrier to the terminal which the travel costs will help to recover build costs. Has Gatwick Airport chipped in for the costs?

The difference here being that Gatwick Airport doesn’t need a people mover, because it actually has an onsite train station that’s a great deal more convenient.

[pabely]

The difference here being that Gatwick Airport doesn’t need a people mover, because it actually has an onsite train station that’s a great deal more convenient.
My point was paid for by Dft. I know through trains benefit as well but seems a hugh amount of money.

[Sotonsean]

My point was paid for by Dft. I know through trains benefit as well but seems a hugh amount of money.

Regarding the cost, are you actually aware of all the works involved. It's not just the new station concourse. I suggest that you search online to find the information regarding what else was done. For example there is plenty of information on the Network Rail website.

[True Blue]

Air Algerie has Alg on sale from the start of S24 daily.

[SWBKCB]

Sean M reporting Easy returning 90 weekly slots back to BA for summer 2024

[pabely]

Sean M reporting Easy returning 90 weekly slots back to BA for summer 2024
Yes only leased, hopefully a more stable program next summer then.

[davidjohnson6]

Yes only leased, hopefully a more stable program next summer then.
What is the reason that BA can operate these flights in peak summer in a stable manner, but that Easyjet cannot ? Whoever operates an A320, it needs the same gate time, same slot usage, same ATC, and BA seem to be very short of crew. Not trying to be snide... just genuinely wondering what Easyjet were doing wrong that BA do better for operational reliability

[True Blue]

As BA are taking back 90 slots and have stated that they will be increasing the number of based aircraft at Lgw, should we not be seeing either new routes or increased frequencies soon to fill those extra slots?

[vectisman]

For the winter BA Euroflyer are self sufficient in crew and aircraft. Training for both flight crew and cabin crew in preparation for Summer 2024 is underway.
The current BA Euroflyer schedule for Summer 2024 requires at least 22 aircraft. 21 should be in place or accounted for by January. (the 10 A32 G-GATx series aircraft and 11 A321 ceo aircraft) I envisage additional aircraft will be transferred from mainline as further A320neo and A321neo aircraft are delivered to Heathrow.
As I said above the schedule at the moment needs 22 aircraft with 21 already accounted for. Only 18/19 aircraft were required in Summer 2023 including the Avion Express aircraft. By next summer BA Euroflyer should have 22 of their own aircraft.

[andymartin]

ATC issues at Gatwick again this morning, no departures for an hour apparantly and inbounds 7 or 8 times around the racetrack.
Someone off sick with 'covid' again?

[SWBKCB]

No - technical issue.

A London Gatwick spokesperson said: ‘There was an outage to a local NATS system earlier this morning which has now been rectified. No cancellations have resulted from this, but some passengers may experience delays. We apologise for any inconvenience.’

https://metro.co.uk/2023/12/09/gatwick-airport-air-traffic-control-outage-delays-flights-hours-19950841/

[andymartin]

More chance of winning the lottery than being on time arriving or departing Gatwick. If heads didn't roll last time then they need to now.

[LGS6753]

More chance of winning the lottery than being on time arriving or departing Gatwick. If heads didn't roll last time then they need to now.
I can confidently predict that, if heads roll, it will be deputy heads.:}

[True Blue]

I see flights for TAAG are appearing in the arrivals and departures information. It was rumored some weeks back that they were launching, wonder what the delay is?

[Sotonsean]

I see flights for TAAG are appearing in the arrivals and departures information. It was rumored some weeks back that they were launching, wonder what the delay is?

It wasn't rumoured, it was confirmed by TAAG. Lots of links online if you search TAAG Angola Airlines London.

TAAG Angola Airlines were supposed to start Luanda to London Gatwick on the 14 December 2023.

There are no flights showing on flightradar. There are no flights showing on the TAAG website. TAAG Angola Airlines was also removed from the London Gatwick Wikipedia page.

I posed the question a couple of weeks ago on here regarding TAAG Angola Airlines. Have TAAG Angola Airlines delayed starting their Luanda to LGW route.

Although the flights might be appearing on the London Gatwick arrivals and departures I don't think that the route actually started as planned on the 14 December 2023.

Hopefully TAAG Angola Airlines haven't fully abandoned their plans to start Luanda to London Gatwick.

On a side note but connected to another African national carrier.

With Air Tanzania losing their application for slots at LHR for the IATA 2024 summer season one can only assume that they will operate into LGW instead.

Air Tanzania had previously stated their intention to serve London in Q2 2024 after the airline received it's third Boeing 788. Prior to the covid pandemic Air Tanzania had obtained slots at LGW for three weekly flight's from Dar Es Salaam commencing in June 2020. The LGW slots have since lapsed, hence the recent slot requests at LHR, which were unsuccessful.

If Air Tanzania and TAAG Angola Airlines do eventually start flying to LGW that will mean that more African carriers serve the airport than at LHR.

African carriers at LGW.

Air Algérie
Air Arabia Maroc
Air Mauritius
Air Tanzania?
Ethiopian Airlines
Nouvelair
Royal Air Maroc
TAAG Angola Airlines?
Tunisair

African carriers at LHR.

Air Algérie
Egyptair
Ethiopian Airlines
Kenya Airways
Royal Air Maroc
Rwandair
Tunisair

[vectisman]

Hopefully the Gatwick slot report for Summer 2024 will be out in the next few days. It could be interesting seeing that several airlines were disappointed by their slot allocations at Heathrow. Some airlines receiving none of their requested increases and others no slots at all.

[nguba]

Singapore Airlines launching 5 weekly flights at Gatwick from June 2024:

https://twitter.com/seanm1997/status/1736672721226866861?s=46&t=OIvCYLUy9nzZ0zwTbRWkkw

[True Blue]

Well if a quality airline like SQ is prepared to come to Lgw, maybe Lgw is finally losing it's image as the bucket and spade airport so loved by some.

[davidjohnson6]

The bucket and spade image went out years ago. Those who jest about bucket and spade clearly have never flown at LGW outside the summer peak. Best to leave the old farts with an image from 30 years ago to wallow in the past and reminisce about WW2 (although the war probably ended before they were born). Those who live in the present know differently.

[vectisman]

Yes its been quite a year with the arrival of Air India, Air Mauritius, Saudi and Ethiopian. Plus of course three airlines from China. Now Singapore airlines from June 2024.
Delta Gatwick to New York is also open for bookings next summer. I wonder if Cathay are pondering a return too.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Well if a quality airline like SQ is prepared to come to Lgw, maybe Lgw is finally losing it's image as the bucket and spade airport so loved by some.
There's nothing whatsoever wrong with "bucket and spade". :)
Very interesting move by Singapore going after market share, the timings are broadly aligned aligned with the existing A380 and B77W morning rotations at LHR, albeit the LGW A359 won't have First. Interesting that the airline that launched the A380 is moving away from that model towards multiple frequencies on a smaller aircraft, there was a time when both morning LHR spins were A380s. Fantastic growth in long haul from LGW. As for Cathay, HKG-LHR capacity is still well down with the CX257 sporadic and the CX239 not running, jury's out on a LGW return I think.

[Rutan16]

There's nothing whatsoever wrong with "bucket and spade". :)
Very interesting move by Singapore going after market share, the timings are broadly aligned aligned with the existing A380 and B77W morning rotations at LHR, albeit the LGW A359 won't have First. Interesting that the airline that launched the A380 is moving away from that model towards multiple frequencies on a smaller aircraft, there was a time when both morning LHR spins were A380s. Fantastic growth in long haul from LGW. As for Cathay, HKG-LHR capacity is still well down with the CX257 sporadic and the CX239 not running, jury's out on a LGW return I think.

Do four first class seats really matter -the 359 has been deployed on one Heathrow service until recently anyway

That said isn’t it more a filler since they have lost a slot pair for NS 2024 .

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Do four first class seats really matter -the 359 has been deployed on one Heathrow service until recently anyway
That said isn’t it more a filler since they have lost a slot pair for NS 2024 .
A359 at LHR was a COVID thing, it's been 2 x A380 and 2 x B77W for a while now. Was one of those four slots leased? In which case it's less of a LGW gain than a LHR loss and they'll be battling to get back into LHR.

[jmdavies86]

Great news for both LGW and SQ; I wonder what third-party lounge their premium passengers will use as they're not likely to have a SilverKris Lounge as they do at LHR.

Interesting that the airline that launched the A380 is moving away from that model towards multiple frequencies on a smaller aircraft...

Doesn't bode too well for Global then...lol.

[vectisman]

The Singapore website does say that the Gatwick service will complement their 4 daily services from Heathrow. Therefore they do not appear to have lost the 4th slot.

[JW95]

Wow, definitely did not see this one coming! :) Absolutely fantastic news, a brilliant way to conclude what has been an extraordinary and successful year for Gatwick as far as carrier and route growth are concerned. Having SQ is a huge win for LGW, probably LGW's biggest catch since CX returned to Gatwick in 2016, considering Singapore Airlines' strong reputation and global recognition as one of the world's premier airlines. I am also especially happy to see that the A359 will be serving this route, which has been a phenomenal aircraft in and of itself that has been well received by passengers - a great alternative to the LHR service. I wonder what terminal SQ will be using? (hopefully South).

Cathay Pacific, its your turn now!

[vectisman]

I believe Singapore Airlines will be using the North Terminal.

[Sotonsean]

Wow, definitely did not see this one coming! :) Absolutely fantastic news, a brilliant way to conclude what has been an extraordinary and successful year for Gatwick as far as carrier and route growth are concerned. Having SQ is a huge win for LGW, probably LGW's biggest catch since CX returned to Gatwick in 2016, considering Singapore Airlines' strong reputation and global recognition as one of the world's premier airlines. I am also especially happy to see that the A359 will be serving this route, which has been a phenomenal aircraft in and of itself that has been well received by passengers - a great alternative to the LHR service. I wonder what terminal SQ will be using? (hopefully South).

Cathay Pacific, its your turn now!

As soon as I read that Singapore Airlines we're coming to LGW in June 2024 I immediately thought of you. I knew that you would be excited by the news.

Great news indeed and as you say very unexpected but very welcome nonetheless 😀

You summed it up nicely in your above post and I feel that I needn't add anything else. Except for a Merry Christmas to you.

As I usually write after previous long haul announcements. Who will be the next long-haul airline to announce LGW?

[Travel24]

Gatwick Airport has probably had the best year out of any airport in the world for growth this year. Insane amount of airlines including Ethiopian, air india, saudia, Lufthansa, the three main China airlines, air Mauritius, delta coming back and many more as well as these and now Singapore Airlines known to many as the best airline in the world.

If airlines like these announce Gatwick flights any airline could start. Working at easyJet I have heard rumours of airlines that could start in the near future.

Azerbaijan especially recently is one to watch. Air Zimbabwe, Air Tanzania could also be in the pipeline. I honestly believe next year could be just as incredible as this year for longhaul announcements. Hopefully cathay come back, air China and china eastern expand operations and many more new routes started.

[SWBKCB]

Gatwick Airport has probably had the best year out of any airport in the world for growth this year. Insane amount of airlines including Ethiopian, Air India, Saudia, Lufthansa, the three main China airlines, Air Mauritius, Delta coming back and many more as well as these and now Singapore Airlines known to many as the best airline in the world.



A bit over excited I think :ok: How many extra pax/flights do these airlines add?

[vectisman]

It is not always just about extra flights and passengers. Attracting quality long haul and short haul airlines always helps to enhance reputation which in turn attracts other entrants. This then can attract more flights and passengers.
Gatwick has had a good year in terms of route expansion and I expect more to follow.

[SWBKCB]

Fair point, and LGW has has some interesting additions but for perspective the three EZY A.320's being added at BHX will probably add more terminal throughput than the airlines listed.

[JW95]

I believe Singapore Airlines will be using the North Terminal.

You're right, now also confirmed on SQ's website. Does anyone know whether a new airline has a choice of terminal at LGW? Or is terminal allocation decided by GIP/VINCI? Surprised they are operating from the North, considering they've got a 25% stake in their Star Alliance partner, Air India, who are in the South Terminal. I personally prefer the South, owing to the train station being within close proximity, and the fact that the place looks and feels that much more modern compared to the North Terminal (although I am aware it is currently undergoing renovations in the departure lounge).

[JW95]

There's nothing whatsoever wrong with "bucket and spade". :)
Very interesting move by Singapore going after market share, the timings are broadly aligned aligned with the existing A380 and B77W morning rotations at LHR, albeit the LGW A359 won't have First. Interesting that the airline that launched the A380 is moving away from that model towards multiple frequencies on a smaller aircraft, there was a time when both morning LHR spins were A380s. Fantastic growth in long haul from LGW. As for Cathay, HKG-LHR capacity is still well down with the CX257 sporadic and the CX239 not running, jury's out on a LGW return I think.

RE. CX, this will be an interesting one to watch, now with SQ having just announced LGW, an airline, that, let's face it, we never thought would come to Gatwick. Cathay Pacific's capacity on LHR-HKG is down on pre-Covid, but continues to increase, with the airline removing the sole remaining A350-1000 service (CX257/238) so that it will become an up to 5 daily 77W operation from March onwards. So hopefully they will return to LGW. I am sure SQ will do well at LGW, just as CX were doing up until 2020. The A350 has been a breakthrough in allowing FSNCs to open up new thinner long haul routes, and from a passenger point of view, is a joy to fly on.

[True Blue]

"Fair point, and LGW has has some interesting additions but for perspective the three EZY A.320's being added at BHX will probably add more terminal throughput than the airlines listed."

But those aircraft had to be removed due to the fact that Ezy had to return slots to BA, who have, in turn, increased their shorthaul fleet at Lgw. In fact, BA now has about 10 A321 based there, with all the A319 aircraft gone, so they have probably increased lift by quite a lot.

[SWBKCB]

"Fair point, and LGW has has some interesting additions but for perspective the three EZY A.320's being added at BHX will probably add more terminal throughput than the airlines listed."

But those aircraft had to be removed due to the fact that Ezy had to return slots to BA, who have, in turn, increased their shorthaul fleet at Lgw. In fact, BA now has about 10 A321 based there, with all the A319 aircraft gone, so they have probably increased lift by quite a lot.

Apologies if we wasn't clear but I responding to the comment "Gatwick Airport has probably had the best year out of any airport in the world for growth this year. "

Arguably the addition of 3 A.320's at BHX operating 3 or so rotations a day will create greater growth in passenger numbers at BHX than the additional airlines listed will at LGW. I've not checked the rest of the world :ok:

[Travel24]

So your saying Birminghams three extra easyJet provides better growth than these airlines. Not to mention British Airways longhaul and shorthaul increases, Vueling increases, Turkish increases, Norse new routes, the list goes on.

find an airport with more longhaul growth this year I’ll wait.

[Keanaga]

Ooooh!

[andymartin]

Maybe after the meltdowns that Gatwick have had this year they need to prove their existing schedule will work next summer before adding new flights.

[JW95]

Given the extraordinary success LGW has had in attracting new airlines to the airport this year, and with the very nice surprise of SQ coming to LGW for the first time next year, the question remains: Who do people think will be next to join? :)

[SWBKCB]

Santa's due tonight! :ok:

[chaps1954]

Is that for Customs or a fuel stop

[Richard Taylor]

Santa's due tonight! :ok:

Is that for Customs or a fuel stop

Freight. ;)

[True Blue]

With Lgw adding and seeking to add more operators offering business class, I think Lgw management would need to take a closer look at the offerings from the various lounges that operate there. I have been through most(not BA) and have been far from impressed on cleanliness, quality of food and maintenance of toilet areas etc. If Lgw want to send out a message that they can compete with Lhr, especially to airlines that also operate from Lhr, this is an area that needs improvement.

[davidjohnson6]

The departures area of LHR is considered to be an area outside the UK... to reach landside, one has to show a passport or your face has to match a photo taken when you entered airside.

At LGW, is this the same, or is the departures area considered to be filled with people who have already entered the UK ?
My guess is that LGW is treated differently from LHR... but as someone who lives in London I've never changed between 2 flights at LGW and never seen the path taken by passengers with an onward (self-)connection

[FRatSTN]

With Lgw adding and seeking to add more operators offering business class, I think Lgw management would need to take a closer look at the offerings from the various lounges that operate there. I have been through most(not BA) and have been far from impressed on cleanliness, quality of food and maintenance of toilet areas etc. If Lgw want to send out a message that they can compete with Lhr, especially to airlines that also operate from Lhr, this is an area that needs improvement.
If you think LGW is bad in that regard take a long hard look at STN where MAG will often claim to have the same aspirations.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The departures area of LHR is considered to be an area outside the UK... to reach landside, one has to show a passport or your face has to match a photo taken when you entered airside.

At LGW, is this the same, or is the departures area considered to be filled with people who have already entered the UK ?
My guess is that LGW is treated differently from LHR... but as someone who lives in London I've never changed between 2 flights at LGW and never seen the path taken by passengers with an onward (self-)connection
It was the same as LHR pre COVID with a photo taken of domestic passengers and no access to domestic flying without a match. I don't believe it was ever re-activated after COVID though.

[willy wombat]

With Lgw adding and seeking to add more operators offering business class, I think Lgw management would need to take a closer look at the offerings from the various lounges that operate there. I have been through most(not BA) and have been far from impressed on cleanliness, quality of food and maintenance of toilet areas etc. If Lgw want to send out a message that they can compete with Lhr, especially to airlines that also operate from Lhr, this is an area that needs improvement.

The Emirates Lounge at LGW is very nice but I agree that the “pay to enter” lounges are a bit naff.

[7Three7Specialist]

Sod the lounges, basic services need upgrading badly! I've been working at LGW for nearly 10 years but its things like the public toilets in the south terminal are horrible! My local cinema as much nicer modern toilets.

[CabinCrewe]

and what did they say when you made formal constructive complaint on said-latrines?

[True Blue]

Azerbaijan has their Lgw flights on sale now, 3 per week with A320. Starting 31.03.24.

Who will be next?

[davidjohnson6]

Atlantic Airways have (finally) put their route to Vagar in the Faroe Islands on sale, starting 1 June 2024
https://italiavola.com/2024/01/08/atlantic-airways-apre-i-voli-tra-londra-gatwick-e-faroe-vagar/

[FlyGatwick]

New long-haul routes coming to LGW do not only deliver more passengers but also more freight (when operated by widebodies). This isn't the case with short-haul LCC services as the narrowbodies used to operate them not only have negligible cargo space but short-haul LCCs usually don't bother about cargo at all as it complicates their business model, i.e., the costs far outweigh the benefits, not only in terms of additional costs incurred for providing / paying for a freight handling service but also in terms of extending tight turns to load / unload freight and thereby negatively affecting aircraft utilisation.

[FlyGatwick]

Given the extraordinary success LGW has had in attracting new airlines to the airport this year, and with the very nice surprise of SQ coming to LGW for the first time next year, the question remains: Who do people think will be next to join? :)

A few highlights from ACL's LGW preliminary slot allocations for summer 2024:

ITA Airways FCO double daily (NEW)

Play KEF daily (NEW)

Qatar Airways DOH two additional daily frequencies (rebuilding frequencies to pre-Covid level: three daily)

Spicejet DEL daily (potentially NEW as the airline doesn't have any suitable long-haul aircraft, such as the A330 / 340 or 787 nor any pilots qualified to fly them, so would have to rely on another ACMI operator like Air Belgium, Highfly, Titan or Wamos if it really wants to launch this route (I recall from memory that this is what they did to operate a limited no. of flights between DEL and LHR under the so-called bubble flight arrangements between the UK and India during the pandemic.)

Sri Lankan CMB approx 2×weekly (1st return to LGW in over 30 yrs)

Additional frequencies also for Air India to add another 6 weekly flights from / to AMD, ATQ, COK and GOX

B6 BOS 1 daily (additional to the already existing daily service, effectively doubling the existing frequency from 1 to 2 daily)

BA ACC 1 weekly (expanding total weekly frequencies from 3 to 4)

TK IST 3 weekly (expanding existing weekly frequencies from 21 to 24, with 3 daily on Mon & Thu, 2 daily on Tue and 4 daily on Wed, Fri, Sat & Sun)

Also additional frequencies for big 3 Chinese state-owned airlines (CA / CZ / MU) from / to various points in China

Which of the potential new Gatwick airlines that have been successful in being awarded slots at the airport for summer 2024, are we likely to see making their Gatwick debut?

In my opinion, I wouldn't be surprised if those listed below actually using their newly awarded slots:

ATI Airways

Play

Sri Lankan Airlines

Spicejet (more likely now than I initially thought as the airline seems to have arrested its downward spiral, as a result of a recent, major capital infusion by one of the original co- founders of Spicejet rival Indigo, who has recently acquired a stake in the airline with a firm view of turning around its flagging financial performance of recent years to enable it to look to the future with confidence again and to firm up new, major expansion plans)

It'd be nice to see as many of these tails at LGW as possible.

[True Blue]

I have been reading the TAAG Angola Airlines may be going through some changes. Might those changes mean that the Lgw service never starts or is seriously delayed?

[Sotonsean]

I have been reading the TAAG Angola Airlines may be going through some changes. Might those changes mean that the Lgw service never starts or is seriously delayed?

Some strange goings on with TAAG Angola Airlines recently.

A couple of weeks ago, the airline announced that Madrid would cease being a destination on the airline's network. Only last week, the airline announced that Madrid would resume again four months after it was stopped.

Several months ago, TAAG Angola Airlines announced LGW with a December 2023 launch, but it never materialised.

I'm also very curious if TAAG Angola Airlines' planned service to LGW will be seriously delayed or, at the worst, will it ever start.

[JW95]

Just returned to London with CX via HKG. An excellent set of flights overall, notwithstanding a series of delays when I flew LHR-HKG a few weeks ago. Definitely preferred the A351 on CX238 versus the 77W (CX251)- as others have experienced and commented previously, the A350 feels much more spacious and certainly quieter over the 77W, so I'm glad I got the chance to fly on it before LHR flights are fully reverted to the 777 come March.

I am very interested to see what CX plan (if anything) RE. capacity in London now that this route is becoming busier and in higher demand. While in transit in HKG yesterday, both my flight (CX251) and CX255 were completely full and the ground staff mentioned that this is common now, with overbooking also occurring on the two overnight flights to London. Luggage space on board during boarding was also limited, with cabin crew having to check many bags into the hold. I'm wondering wether CX will try and add further capacity to LHR (unlikely due to slot availability) or reopen LGW this year, as it seems like more capacity is needed?

[JW95]

A few highlights from ACL's LGW preliminary slot allocations for summer 2024:

ITA Airways FCO double daily (NEW)

Play KEF daily (NEW)

Qatar Airways DOH two additional daily frequencies (rebuilding frequencies to pre-Covid level: three daily)

Spicejet DEL daily (potentially NEW as the airline doesn't have any suitable long-haul aircraft, such as the A330 / 340 or 787 nor any pilots qualified to fly them, so would have to rely on another ACMI operator like Air Belgium, Highfly, Titan or Wamos if it really wants to launch this route (I recall from memory that this is what they did to operate a limited no. of flights between DEL and LHR under the so-called bubble flight arrangements between the UK and India during the pandemic.)

Sri Lankan CMB approx 2×weekly (1st return to LGW in over 30 yrs)

Additional frequencies also for Air India to add another 6 weekly flights from / to AMD, ATQ, COK and GOX

B6 BOS 1 daily (additional to the already existing daily service, effectively doubling the existing frequency from 1 to 2 daily)

BA ACC 1 weekly (expanding total weekly frequencies from 3 to 4)

TK IST 3 weekly (expanding existing weekly frequencies from 21 to 24, with 3 daily on Mon & Thu, 2 daily on Tue and 4 daily on Wed, Fri, Sat & Sun)

Also additional frequencies for big 3 Chinese state-owned airlines (CA / CZ / MU) from / to various points in China

Which of the potential new Gatwick airlines that have been successful in being awarded slots at the airport for summer 2024, are we likely to see making their Gatwick debut?

In my opinion, I wouldn't be surprised if those listed below actually using their newly awarded slots:

ATI Airways

Play

Sri Lankan Airlines

Spicejet (more likely now than I initially thought as the airline seems to have arrested its downward spiral, as a result of a recent, major capital infusion by one of the original co- founders of Spicejet rival Indigo, who has recently acquired a stake in the airline with a firm view of turning around its flagging financial performance of recent years to enable it to look to the future with confidence again and to firm up new, major expansion plans)

It'd be nice to see as many of these tails at LGW as possible.

Sri Lankan to Gatwick would be interesting- essentially the same thing as what Air Mauritius did when they left LHR. Unsure what their existing frequency at Heathrow is, but I'm thinking a move to LGW would only happen on the basis that they could increase frequency over what is currently offered at LHR.

RE. Play- I wonder if this would be in addition to, or a replacement of their STN service?

[True Blue]

I see Ethiopian is going up to 4 per week from June.

Also, EI is pulling out from end of March. Who will pick up those slots, I think 4 daily?

[Markushillman]

I see Ethiopian is going up to 4 per week from June.

Also, EI is pulling out from end of March. Who will pick up those slots, I think 4 daily?

Think FR might increase services on the news EI is leaving

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I see Ethiopian is going up to 4 per week from June.
Also, EI is pulling out from end of March. Who will pick up those slots, I think 4 daily?
Aer Lingus leaving AGAIN? How many times is that now? Was pleased they came back in 2008 with the A320 after leaving when the 146s were retired. I've never been on a quiet DUB-LGW, and unlike long haul passengers who will make the journey to LHR, this will surely cost traffic and market share on their core Dublin-London offering. Or has the move of NOC to LHR meant they no longer feel it necessary?

[nguba]

There must have been decent connectivity from EI to BA long haul at Gatwick.

Will BA step in, either with EuroFlyer or W patterns from LHR, or is this a lack of joined up thinking at IAG?

[Una Due Tfc]

Reading elsewhere that it was the loss of VIR connections that has killed it for EIN.

[Sotonsean]

The London Gatwick Airport Wikipedia page is currently showing Iraqi Airways on it's airlines listing.

I've done a lengthy search online to and find any information regarding Iraqi Airways resuming London Gatwick but with no luck.

Iraqi Airways has recently announced a return to Europe with flights to several German airports along with Copenhagen, Denmark. Iraqi Airways are expected to operate these flights with their own aircraft.

With an ever increasing amount of modern aircraft joining the fleet I'm sure that Iraqi Airways would want to expand further into Europe with a resumption of service to London.

Does anyone have any further information regarding a possible resumption of service of Iraqi Airways to London Gatwick.

[sewushr]

Iraqi Airways have been saying for ages that they expect to be approved to operate their own aircraft to Europe 'soon'. But as far as I'm aware, they are still included on both the EU and UK Safety List, so are in effect banned. Iraqi Airways flights to Germany and other States in the EU are currently operated by wet-leased aircraft (as they must be with the carrier itself on the Safety List).
Until this changes, there will be no Iraqi Airways operated aircraft allowed on commercial services to the EU (and the UK).

[True Blue]

What will happen to the slots being given up by EI? Will they be sold by EI(if there is a value) or will they be returned and distributed by ACL? I think EI operated 4/5 times a day so a fair number of slots suddenly available.

I think Aegean also held slots for a service to Athens this summer, but this seems to have been taken off sale as well. It was on sale, but is no more. Same with Air Algerie.
So there does seem to be a bit of churn going on. Will be interesting to see what comes of all of this.

[Sotonsean]

What will happen to the slots being given up by EI? Will they be sold by EI(if there is a value) or will they be returned and distributed by ACL? I think EI operated 4/5 times a day so a fair number of slots suddenly available.

I think Aegean also held slots for a service to Athens this summer, but this seems to have been taken off sale as well. It was on sale, but is no more. Same with Air Algerie.
So there does seem to be a bit of churn going on. Will be interesting to see what comes of all of this.



Air Algérie had recently announced changes to their proposed Algiers to London Gatwick route.

Service was supposed to start on the 06 January 2024. This has now been pushed back to the start of the IATA summer season with service to commence on 31 March 2024.

Flights are now scheduled to be daily by a Boeing 738.

Tentative schedule for service to commence on the 31 March 2024.

AH2058 ALG 15.10 LGW 16.40 Daily B738
AH2059 LGW 17.50 ALG 21.40 Daily B738

[True Blue]

Air Algerie had these flights on sale, but they are not on sale now.

[VickersVicount]

If EI can’t make DUB-LGW work, I doubt BA could (EF or not).
Can’t see TAAG or eg SpiceJet at LGW anytime soon either.

[JW95]

If EI can’t make DUB-LGW work, I doubt BA could (EF or not).
Can’t see TAAG or eg SpiceJet at LGW anytime soon either.

Shame about Aer Lingus :( They've been here at Gatwick for many years and at one stage even had a base in the mid-late 2000s at LGW. FR will undoubtedly step in and add additional capacity to compensate. I reckon BA would only look at starting LGW-DUB if there is sufficient feeder traffic/demand, which, given EI's departure, sadly suggests otherwise. I also can't see EZY launching this route, given FR's dominance in DUB. However, like 2023, I am optimistic that LGW will see further new carriers this year, its just questions of when and who, rather than if.

[cavokblues]

I remember when easyJet dipped their toe into the ROI market from Gatwick in the early 2000's with flights to Shannon, Cork and Knock. Ryanair were absolutely ferocious in their response and drove them off the routes so I think easyJet will stay well clear of the Dublin > London market.

[FlyGatwick]

Aer Lingus leaving AGAIN? How many times is that now? Was pleased they came back in 2008 with the A320 after leaving when the 146s were retired. I've never been on a quiet DUB-LGW, and unlike long haul passengers who will make the journey to LHR, this will surely cost traffic and market share on their core Dublin-London offering. Or has the move of NOC to LHR meant they no longer feel it necessary?

I read somewhere that a major factor in EI deciding to pull its DUB-LGW route was the post pandemic collapse in business travellers using the route pre pandemic. These are the people who generally wouldn't fly FR. Without those business travellers, EI is left with only those who wouldn't mind flying FR if the price is more attractive. Given that FR's costs are significantly lower than EI's and that FR serves LGW-DUB up to eight times daily all-year round as opposed to EI five times daily in winter and only four times daily in summer mainly at very similar times to FR, with transatlantic connections at DUB generally not working well in terms of extended layover at DUB compared with FI via KEF, especially when looking at it both ways, this is an uphill struggle that EI couldn't win. Another factor is the arbitrary 32 million p.a.pax cap at DUB, which I vaguely recall was a concession DUB had negotiated in return for getting permission from the ROI government to build a second runway many years ago. This means that even though DUB has twice LGW's runway capacity, it effectively handles 15 million fewer pax p.a. than LGW at its pre pandemic peak! Given this artificial constraint in addition to the other factors I mentioned, I'm not at all surprised EI has pulled the route. In this connection as well re loss of transfer traffic between EI and BA at LGW, given that the majority of those were probably transferring at LGW to / from places like MCO and BGI, EI can easily redirect thus traffic via MAN as both MCO and BGI are served by EI's UK subsidiary from there, with this being even more advantageous than routing them onto BA via LGW as EI will be able to keep all the revenue - incl. the really profitable long-haul portion of the entire itinerary instead of "gifting" this to BA while keeping only the loss-making short-haul portion - in-house.

The interesting question -as already mentioned before- is: What will happen to EI's LGW slots?

Getting up to five daily, commonly timed slot pairs at popular times when most passengers actually want to fly at LGW these days is an absolute rarity. Therefore, I do believe these slots have great value. So far, EI appears to be tight-lipped re what they're planning to do with those slots - giving / selling them to BA or another IAG airline with a presence at LGW like VY for ecample, selling them to a non-IAG airline like FR for example or returning them to the LGW slot pool for reallocation by ACL. Also, as each of the up to five daily LGW slot pairs EI currently uses has a 40 min turnaround between each arrival and departure, these slots will be best suited to a short-haul operator using aircraft based at the other end of the route (not at LGW) if all slots are to be used on their entirety - i.e., as a package to be used by one operator (the only option if EI wants to realise the value of these slots by selling them at a profit) rather than being disaggregated and randomly redistributed among different operators. In my opinion, this will make them awkward for BA's LGW EF short-haul subsidiary as they would need to overnight an aircraft at the other end of the route to make best use of them, something they firmly ruled out doing as this was identfied as a major source of the losses BA has historically incurred on short-haul at LGW. While this still doesn't rule out BA mainline potentially doing a DUB-LGW feeder in a W pattern as they currently do on GLA-LGW, like GLA-LGW, this would probably be a single daily flight only.

The following scenarios are the most likely in my opinion re future usage of EI's LGW slots:

1 Selling them to FR. As FR already effectively duplicates most of EI's current timings on LGW-DUB and tgey already run a high-frequency service on this route with up to twice EI's frequency, they'd probably only at another sngle daily frequency to their current LGW-DUB schedule, making it up to nine per day (instead of up to eight), with the remaining three to four daily slot pairs being used to boost frequencies on LGW-ORK and LGW-SNN from the current single daily round-trip to double or triple daily and perhaps reintroducing LGW-NOC (probably as a summer seasonal service, with this slot pair being used to fly in and back out of LGW from one of FR's numerous Continental bases in a W pattern in winter).

2. Selling them to a short-haul member / affiliate of one of the three big global airline alliances, such as Skyteam for example, either FSC or LCC.

2 1. If FSC, this could be a once in a life time opportunity for an airline like KL or AF to tap the LGW catchment area for connecting traffic transferring at their AMS or CDG hub to / from their globe-spanning long-haul route network, neatly complementing their long- and well-established presence in the LHR catchment area, where - because of even greater runway capacity constraints than at LGW - short of LHR actually being able to build a third runway - it will be impossible for them to further increase flight frequencies to / from their own global hub airports. Either KL or AF would be a great addition for LGW in my opinion as it would open up a multitude of new global, one-stop connections for LGW, which unlike those already provided from LGW by the likes of EK, QR and (from 22 June) SQ will not only offer additional eastward-facing connections but westward-facing ones as well. Personally, I would favour KL over AF as AMS despite its recent issues is a more user-friendly hub than CDG although I'm conscious that adding up to five new daily LGW-AMS feeder flights will probably be more difficult to achieve than for AF to add this many flights at CDG because of previous Dutch government policy to cap flights at AMS despite tgis being a six-runway facility. M

2 2. If LCC, staying with the example of the Skyteam alliance, the French arm of HV, most likely on the shape of an up to five times daily ORY-LGW service usibg ORY-based aircraft as there will be sufficient capacity for HV to do so at the ORY end as well given AF's decision to discontinue its French domestic shuttle services to / from ORY for very similar reasons as those stated by EI for discontinuing LGW-DUB (a collapse in business traffic) and to transfer its ORY slots to HV. If HV were to use AF's ORY slots and EI's LGW slots to launch LGW-ORY, their frequency could be an exact match of EI's current LGW-DUB frequency: five daily from Monday to Friday, two daily on Saturdays and four daily on Sundays, and they could probably continue to use South Terminal's pier 1, making LGW's operational planning easier than if KL or AF decided to take EI's LGW slots themselves as they'd probably pefer to be in the North Terminal.

[Mayfield62]

Aer Lingus are dropping services between Gatwick and Dublin after 30th March.

[Sotonsean]

Aer Lingus are dropping services between Gatwick and Dublin after 30th March.

We know already. This has already been mentioned on this thread and discussed. It was first mentioned by post 1435 at 15.15 on the 19 January 2024.

[True Blue]

Another route to China on sale with China Southern

[Sotonsean]

Another route to China on sale with China Southern

Are you telling us or asking us?

If you already know the route in question why not mention it in your very brief comment.

I take it that you are referring to China Southern Airlines from Guangzhou CAN to London Gatwick.

Another route to look out for from China in the coming weeks is a possible announcement of a resumption of Air China from Beijing to London Gatwick, apparently going daily.

On a negative note, China Eastern Airlines are believed to be reducing service to London Gatwick from Shanghai. Air China on the other hand are proposing an expansion with a daily service from Shanghai to London Gatwick.

For summer 2024 London Gatwick will see three Chinese carriers serving the airport from possibly four Chinese airports.

Air China...Beijing, Shanghai
China Eastern Airlines...Shanghai
China Southern Airlines...Guangzhou, Zhengzhou

Hopefully the next Chinese destination to London Gatwick will be Hong Kong with a resumption of service by Cathay Pacific Airways.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Another route to look out for from China in the coming weeks is a possible announcement of a resumption of Air China from Beijing to London Gatwick, apparently going daily.
On a negative note, China Eastern Airlines are believed to be reducing service to London Gatwick from Shanghai. Air China on the other hand are proposing an expansion with a daily service from Shanghai to London Gatwick.
Hopefully the next Chinese destination to London Gatwick will be Hong Kong with a resumption of service by Cathay Pacific Airways.
China Eastern and Air China are not competitors in the traditional sense, state carriers sharing routes and resources at the strategic level.
Cathay won't be back at LGW before they're able to crew and fly 5 x daily B77Ws out of LHR, that's not this year IMHO.

[Travel24]

Cathay pacific are going to be launching flights to hongkong in October. Massively in their plans this year.

Avianca are going to be launching Bogotá at some point. Sri Lankan and Azul are also on the cards.

from an African point of view air Tanzania, air Zimbabwe are also likely to launch.

From my point of view nearly every carrier could launch Gatwick at anytime.

singapore launching flights is so massive for the airport could very much see a domino affect here

[JW95]

Cathay pacific are going to be launching flights to hongkong in October. Massively in their plans this year.

Avianca are going to be launching Bogotá at some point. Sri Lankan and Azul are also on the cards.

from an African point of view air Tanzania, air Zimbabwe are also likely to launch.

From my point of view nearly every carrier could launch Gatwick at anytime.

singapore launching flights is so massive for the airport could very much see a domino affect here

As someone who flew Cathay Pacific several times when they returned to LGW in September 2016, I was genuinely gutted when they cancelled the route owing to Covid. Since then I've been eagerly awaiting news for their return to LGW. I can't wait to see their A350 back at the airport, considering that LHR will no longer see the CX A350 from March onwards. Do you have confirmation of Cathay Pacific returning to Gatwick in October this year?

[Travel24]

One they are hiring staff for London massive sign imo.

two I used to work at the airport and know people who tell me they are going to announce soon.

be very suprised if they didn’t announce before June

[JW95]

One they are hiring staff for London massive sign imo.

two I used to work at the airport and know people who tell me they are going to announce soon.

be very suprised if they didn’t announce before June

Brilliant! I've many fantastic journeys with them, including a recent one on the A350 from LHR, and they are my preferred carrier when flying long haul. I'm keeping everything crossed that the announcement will be made soon and confirmation of this route returning made, I cannot wait to see them come back!! :) Presumably the a/c will be as was before (A359)?

[Travel24]

Yes it will be a350-900 I believe at five weekly, starting October 28. I think we will see a lot of new routes and increases from Chinese carriers this year.

[Travel24]

Also if you search up london on the Cathay pacific website it goes gatwick/Heathrow instead of just Heathrow so many subtle hints

[JW95]

Also if you search up london on the Cathay pacific website it goes gatwick/Heathrow instead of just Heathrow so many subtle hints
Admittedly, the London LHR/LGW search option has been in place on the CX website for quite a while now, with the existing options to HKG from LGW usually involving a hop to AMS (BA) or Madrid (Iberia), so unsure if that search option is a sign of them coming back, as it has been a search option for a while (certainly since the route was suspended in February 2020).

[JW95]

Yes it will be a350-900 I believe at five weekly, starting October 28. I think we will see a lot of new routes and increases from Chinese carriers this year.
Fantastic! :) I wonder if they'll end up flying at similar times as they did before? IIRC, CX354 would leave Gatwick in the early afternoon (circa 12:30pm) and CX343 would arrive 6:30-6:40 ish. Hopefully they will use the South Terminal again.

[Travel24]

It will be south terminal for sure. One world with British airways. I think China southern are moving to north terminal.

[sewushr]

We see lots of reports of 'imminent' start dates for various foreign operators, not only on PPrune but on various aviation/routes websites. On many occasions it just seems to be people regurgitating an announcement that has been made by an airline regarding their intention to fly to the UK. But there are quite a few hurdles to overcome before a new operator can start. Apologies to those of you who may be familiar with all of this, but thought it might be helpful to summarize.
Firstly, Air Zimbabwe, like Iraqi Airways, is on the UK Safety List, so cannot operate here unless they use wet-leased aircraft.
Before any foreign carrier can fly commercially to the UK, they must obtain a Third Country Operator (TCO) authorisation. This is a safety assessment of the carrier, independent of the EASA TCO approvals, without which the airline cannot apply for a Permit to fly to the UK. The CAA publishes a list of all TCO holders on its website.
Once the TCO is in place, the operator can apply for a Foreign Carrier Permit, but it is a bit more than a rubber stamping exercise. The carrier's proposed schedule must be consistent with the bilateral Air Service Agreement between the UK and State of Origin (some ASAs limit the number of carriers from each side or have frequency and capacity restrictions). The carrier must demonstrate that they hold sufficient insurance cover and have a system to collect and transmit to UKBF Advanced Passenger Information (API). There will also be a security assessment of the airport(s) from which they want to fly. Depending on how organised a carrier is, these things can take quite a bit of time, and might prevent the operator from meeting their proposed start date, or preclude them from flying here at all.
So, yes, good to see positive intent from plenty of overseas carriers, and ACL reporting that some already hold slots, but until all of these other things are in place, they will not be able to commence flights!

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

From my point of view nearly every carrier could launch Gatwick at anytime.
Good to know, that being said... :

Have Cathay got their crewing issues sorted out then? Cos LHR is still only 4 daily on not all B77W by a long way.
Are Avianca moving from LHR or is Bogota growing fast enough to warrant two London airports?

[VickersVicount]

Reading elsewhere that it was the loss of VIR connections that has killed it for EIN.
Surely most would/could just go on similar BA services?

[Sotonsean]

China Eastern and Air China are not competitors in the traditional sense, state carriers sharing routes and resources at the strategic level.
Cathay won't be back at LGW before they're able to crew and fly 5 x daily B77Ws out of LHR, that's not this year IMHO.

I am as I'm sure your aware in total knowledge of how the Chinese carriers work and who actually operates them.

Although I stated the future possibility of Cathay Pacific returning to London Gatwick I fully agree with your comments. You've stated the same on several occasions. Although the "future" could be any date in time.

[JW95]

It will be south terminal for sure. One world with British airways. I think China southern are moving to north terminal.
South terminal is definitely busy now as far as long haul is concerned, so presumably China Southern are moving to be able to accommodate CX's return to the South Terminal when they (hopefully) return in October. Will be something seeing both the SQ and CX A350s at Gatwick.

[Rutan16]

I am as I'm sure your aware in total knowledge of how the Chinese carriers work and who actually operates them.

Although I stated the future possibility of Cathay Pacific returning to London Gatwick I fully agree with your comments. You've stated the same on several occasions. Although the "future" could be any date in time.

As Skip inferred Chinese carriers are a Ponzi scheme with differing liveries . That said there are nuances with areas of interest, and even some intergovernmental disagreements particularly between Beijing and Shanghai .

Absolutely everything the three main groups do is sanctioned by the state . Their existence in the international sphere is both soft and hard power political projection.

Nothing in China is ever all it seems

[Sotonsean]

As Skip inferred Chinese carriers are a Ponzi scheme with differing liveries . That said there are nuances with areas of interest, and even some intergovernmental disagreements particularly between Beijing and Shanghai .

Absolutely everything the three main groups do is sanctioned by the state . Their existence in the international sphere is both soft and hard power political projection.

Nothing in China is ever all it seems

Many thanks for your response but I'm fully aware of everything that you have stated as well what Skip was inferring to. I'm certainly no novice I can assure you. But at least you have informed those who didn't know any better.

[Travel24]

Gatwick at the moment is very interesting probably the most interesting out of any airport in the world if you like new routes.

If you saw the Heathrow slot report around 50 airlines asked for new additional or new slots. Obviously most of them are gojng to wait till they get them. However some will choose Gatwick and very few like royal Jordanian will go to stansted.

For me the Gatwick slot report is interesting but at this moment in time quite irrelevant as many airlines not requiring those slots and looking to expand operations to London will go to Gatwick so any airline could come to Gatwick at anytime.

Right now azul of Brazil, Cathay, Vietnam airlines, taag, avianca and even Sri Lankan are most likely to start and an additional Chinese carrier could also be a potential. But generally it could be anyone from anywhere.

[7Three7Specialist]

Is there a demand for Japan? Just curious as seems like a destination that would work.

[Travel24]

I forgot to add air peace into the mix too

[laviation]

Is there a demand for Japan? Just curious as seems like a destination that would work.

There will be, but with the seemingly indefinite situation re Vlad (and his big airspace) it doesn’t seem the best of times for a Japanese carrier to open LGW imho

Perhaps in a few years time though.

[BA318]

There will be, but with the seemingly indefinite situation re Vlad (and his big airspace) it doesn’t seem the best of times for a Japanese carrier to open LGW imho

Perhaps in a few years time though.

Japanese airlines are incredibly conservative with regards to growth. And JAL managed to get slots for the 2nd daily a few years ago at LHR.

Norwegian wanted to fly LGW-NRT pre covid but had an issue getting rights (can’t remember if it was Russian over flight right or something else).

I can’t see ANA or JAL going to LGW. Maybe one of their low cost carriers - Air Japan or ZipAir might if they ever expand to Europe.

[Travel24]

So with air peace pretty much done and coming I am now looking at more Africa, Asia and South American growth.

I have no faith in any carrier announcing Japan, however south Korea I believe Korean air could return.

Other places china and India is where the growth for me will be. Thai could announce next year or even winter, air Asia next year.

other airlines that could are etihad, gulf air, Kuwait airways etc.

South American growth- aero Mexico, avianca and azul could add.

then Africa- any of these: air Tanzania, taag, Egypt air, air Zimbabwe, Kenya airways etc

[Sotonsean]

So with air peace pretty much done and coming I am now looking at more Africa, Asia and South American growth.

I have no faith in any carrier announcing Japan, however south Korea I believe Korean air could return.

Other places china and India is where the growth for me will be. Thai could announce next year or even winter, air Asia next year.

other airlines that could are etihad, gulf air, Kuwait airways etc.

South American growth- aero Mexico, avianca and azul could add.

then Africa- any of these: air Tanzania, taag, Egypt air, air Zimbabwe, Kenya airways etc

Your getting a bit carried away aren't you. Anyone can read the ACL reports and assume what they like.

Are you even considering runway and terminal availability and capacity for all those airlines your thinking out aloud about. You have to remember that LGW currently has just a single runway and only two terminals.

But you've definitely come out of your slumber with more posts in two days than since you joined in March 2023. You've found an audience on here and quite possibly daydreaming to some extent.

Although I agree with a few of your suggestions but why would Aeromexico, Avianca, Etihad, Gulf Air, Kenya Airlines, Kuwait Airways, Thai want to obtain slots at LGW. The only one out of that list that could be Etihad resuming LGW, although I don't personally see them doing so.

Korean Air is awaiting final permission to merge with Asiana and probably wouldn't be looking to resume LGW.

South America isn't so much a growth area as you assume with most of the continent suffering from economic crisis and social problems amongst other things.

With your slight imagination, I'm surprised that you didn't include Aeroflot, Air Koryo, Ariana Afghan Airlines, Conviasa, or even Syrianair.

I personally don't agree with you regarding Air Peace being a done deal at LGW.

Air Peace have made it known very publicly that they won't be flying to London in the near future unless they can obtain slots at LHR. They have mentioned at the same time that they don't intend on initiating service to London if only LGW is available to them. The airline has been proposing a London service for over five years. They have had every opportunity to do so in that time.

In my opinion, the airlines that could possibly land at LGW in the next year or so are.

Air Tanzania... Once they obtain their 3rd B788 in Q2 or Q3 24.

Air Zimbabwe...They have already made it known that they intend on a resumption of Harare to LGW in the near future, but after CAA approval or via an ACMI at first. The airline has recently received it's first B772 at Harare Airport in an all white livery. Another three B772 are set to join the airline in the next few months, which are all ex Malaysian Airlines.

Azul...Quite possibly but pending further A339s being delivered.

Cathay Pacific...Probably, but more than likely not until capacity at LHR has been exhausted, despite your previous comments (dreams) about a definite return in October.

Ghana Airlines... Once they finally get going and an order for long-haul aircraft is placed.

Iraqi Airways... More than likely especially with new aircraft joining the fleet although probably via an ACMI at first.

Nigeria Air... Quite possibly when they finally get an actual airline started which could take several years.

Sri Lanka Airways...Very likely, in my opinion.

TAAG Angola Airlines... When they eventually decide to start, I suppose, who knows what's going on.

Uganda Airlines (After CAA approval and final audit of Entebbe Airport which is due sometime in Q3 24)

[Travel24]

No it’s not imagination at all!!

All the airlines I have suggested have little or no airport slots at Heathrow, so will obviously look at ways to expand which predominantly will be Gatwick.

I have information from inside the airport and all of these I have suggested are maybes. Also with air peace have you read that they are trying to codeshare with Norse and are trying so hard to gain the right Gatwick slots.

Avianca wanted another daily at Heathrow and they haven’t got it.

obviously Gatwick is near full but there is a 90 percent chance that they will gain a second runway. Yes I have a little too much enthusiasm Sometimes but nothing is out of realms of possibility especially when you see all the airlines that have come to Gatwick in the last year!

[Rutan16]

Air Pease is far from done and they are NOT looking at codesharing but potentially leasing - Read that fluff piece again, if it were me I’d run a mile or have a YEARS money upfront and CLEARED in the bank !

They have no slots and their colourful “owner” is adamant they DONT want to go to GATWICK !

Iraqi (at leat the IA code) will be back in the UK at some point - Its not reliant on aircraft deliveries on the YI- register through just safe compliance.

I see none of those African “ virtual” carriers anytime soon . And Air Tanzania use of their second 787 is contingent upon what their Chinese masters prioritise- More likely upgrading Dubai than London imho.

TAAG continue to fly leased in aircraft to Porto, Lisboa and Madrid with just 3 of the 77w available at any onetime. Typical daily is 2 Lisbon, 1 Porto and 5 weekly Madrid with Brazil and South Africa filling -imho I very much doubt they have spare capacity anytime soon.
IDK know but surmise they may still be operating under restricted license from CAA/EASA

SriLanka do they not have sufficient slots at Heathrow to cover in excess of daily flights or are they looking at Hambantota with a tour operator perhaps ?

Azul - yes viable

Cathay - Really difficult to measure what with continued pressure on those British overseas passport holders and particularly their finances later in the year.
Its beyond regrettable the current political situation in Hong Kong masked via COVID

[BA318]

Air Pease is far from done !

They have no slots and their colourful “owner” is adamant they DONT want to go to GATWICK !

It’s being reported about some kind of potential partnership between Air Peace and Norse. https://punchng.com/fg-in-talks-with-uk-on-air-peace-lagos-london-flight/

[Rutan16]

It’s being reported about some kind of potential partnership between Air Peace and Norse. https://punchng.com/fg-in-talks-with-uk-on-air-peace-lagos-london-flight/

Don’t see anything tangible it’s pure fluff, and as I said imho Norse would be advised to get a shed load of money UPFRONT And CLEARED in their bank.

Its hard enough for established businesses to repatriate funds at the best of times Norse need very careful legal financial and risk analysis support !

[DC3 Dave]

Don’t see anything tangible it’s pure fluff, and as I said imho Norse would be advised to get a shed load of money UPFRONT And CLEARED in their bank.

I am sure there will not be a problem, providing Norse forward the arrangement fees to Nigeria as requested.

[inOban]

I'm at the other end of the country but I understand that much of the African diaspora lives in South London and LGW is their local airport, just as LTN is the local airport for the Jewish communities of North London. I think that people forget that the London airports are also regional airports.

[Rutan16]

It’s being reported about some kind of potential partnership between Air Peace and Norse. https://punchng.com/fg-in-talks-with-uk-on-air-peace-lagos-london-flight/

Don’t see anything tangible it’s pure fluff, and as I said imho Norse would be advised to get a shed load of money UPFRONT And CLEARED in their bank.

[Rutan16]

I'm at the other end of the country but I understand that much of the African diaspora lives in South London and LGW is their local airport, just as LTN is the local airport for the Jewish communities of North London. I think that people forget that the London airports are also regional airports.

Brixton, Croydon, Lewisham, Streatham etc….. might have diaspora but thats not the issue; its that list is FULL of virtual airlines and is a wish list.

DC3 or Dakotaman (I think I recognise the irony in your post:=)

You don’t pay money to odd ball Nigerians !

Norse needs money FROM Nigeria !

BTW The Punch isn’t exactly a bastion of free press its very much in the “pay” of certain elites and voices.

Air Peace are shady to their core indeed - Allen Ifechukwu Athan Onyema, the Chairman, CEO, and founder of Air Peace, was charged with bank fraud and money laundering for moving more than $20 million from Nigeria through United States bank accounts in a scheme involving false documents based on the purchase of aircraft a few years back!

They also have a terrible safety record

[JW95]

I'm largely in agreement with my good friend, Sotonsean. I love Gatwick, and I think that it is a far better airport than LHR by many measures. I want to see it continue to thrive, and not just be used as a "waiting room" for airlines while they seek to move to LHR- it deserves better than that. Having said that, I am intrigued by some of the names that are suddenly being flagged up as possible entrants to Gatwick, and I am sceptical about who (if any) will actually launch from LGW. Examples:

Thai Airways: They've never operated from, nor (to the best of my knowledge) shown any interest in establishing a dual London airport operation, so why would they go to LGW? On the other hand, Thai's capacity on LHR-BKK has been reduced significantly since the withdrawal of the A380 from their fleet (currently they fly to BKK twice a day using the 77W). The don't have any larger aircraft than the 777, so this may be a case of them wishing to add additional capacity in absence of the A380/744 (similar to what SQ and CX have done at LGW previously) and they cannot currently do so at LHR.

Vietnam Airlines: Previously operated at LGW before upping sticks and moving to LHR in 2015. Can't see them reopening LGW unless there has been a sudden surge in demand for for the LON-HAN and LON-SGN markets?

Sri Lankan: Similar to Vietnam Airlines. They already operate daily at LHR, so can't see them opening LGW as well.

Air Asia X: I'm sceptical about them even making a presence in Europe again, despite what they've previously announced in the media. The market since they were last here in 2009-2012 has changed significantly. There are more FSNC options to Asia than ever before, and towards the end of their time in the UK, D7 really struggled to compete against QR, EK et al. who's fares were not dissimilar from Air Asia's, who charge for add ons (meals, seat reservations etc). Scoot also tried a similar strategy with LGW-BKK-SIN and that didn't last long at all. I think Air Asia X's time in the UK has been and gone sadly.

Also important is limited terminal and gate space. LGW is that much smaller compared to LHR, with two terminals and a single runway, and although plans to put the second runway into routine use are progressing, this is still some way off. This will hence limit how many (if any) of the aforementioned carriers can launch from Gatwick.

However, I also realise that LGW had an extraordinary and successful year last year in attracting new long haul airlines to the airport, and I am wondering whether this is a case of airlines coming to the realisation that LHR is unlikely to ever be expanded beyond its two existing runways (even though the writing has been on the wall for some time), and that carriers are now wanting to come to LGW while they still can before there are no slots left? I never once expected Singapore Airlines to launch at LGW for example, and I reckon that CX have noted this and are now eying a return to LGW in the winter, hence why they are being flagged up again.

[Rutan16]

I'm largely in agreement with my good friend, Sotonsean. I love Gatwick, and I think that it is a far better airport than LHR by many measures. I want to see it continue to thrive, and not just be used as a "waiting room" for airlines while they seek to move to LHR- it deserves better than that. Having said that, I am intrigued by some of the names that are suddenly being flagged up as possible entrants to Gatwick, and I am sceptical about who (if any) will actually launch from LGW. Examples:

Thai Airways: They've never operated from, nor (to the best of my knowledge) shown any interest in establishing a dual London airport operation, so why would they go to LGW? On the other hand, Thai's capacity on LHR-BKK has been reduced significantly since the withdrawal of the A380 from their fleet (currently they fly to BKK twice a day using the 77W). The don't have any larger aircraft than the 777, so this may be a case of them wishing to add additional capacity in absence of the A380/744 (similar to what SQ and CX have done at LGW previously) and they cannot currently do so at LHR.

Vietnam Airlines: Previously operated at LGW before upping sticks and moving to LHR in 2015. Can't see them reopening LGW unless there has been a sudden surge in demand for for the LON-HAN and LON-SGN markets?

Sri Lankan: Similar to Vietnam Airlines. They already operate daily at LHR, so can't see them opening LGW as well.

Air Asia X: I'm sceptical about them even making a presence in Europe again, despite what they've previously announced in the media. The market since they were last here in 2009-2012 has changed significantly. There are more FSNC options to Asia than ever before, and towards the end of their time in the UK, D7 really struggled to compete against QR, EK et al. who's fares were not dissimilar from Air Asia's, who charge for add ons (meals, seat reservations etc). Scoot also tried a similar strategy with LGW-BKK-SIN and that didn't last long at all. I think Air Asia X's time in the UK has been and gone sadly.

Also important is limited terminal and gate space. LGW is that much smaller compared to LHR, with two terminals and a single runway, and although plans to put the second runway into routine use are progressing, this is still some way off. This will hence limit how many (if any) of the aforementioned carriers can launch from Gatwick.

However, I also realise that LGW had an extraordinary and successful year last year in attracting new long haul airlines to the airport, and I am wondering whether this is a case of airlines coming to the realisation that LHR is unlikely to ever be expanded beyond its two existing runways (even though the writing has been on the wall for some time), and that carriers are now wanting to come to LGW while they still can before there are no slots left? I never once expected Singapore Airlines to launch at LGW for example, and I reckon that CX have noted this and are now eying a return to LGW in the winter, hence why they are being flagged up again.

Problem with Bangkok is two fold -lack of sufficient premium sales and also wrong place in Thailand for many tourists and indeed the hundred or so “digital nomads come social media bloggers or other dodgy dealers ” down by Krabi and/or Phuket.
Thai have been said to be on the verge of operating to Manchester (said to be one of the largest unserved long haul markets on the planet- can’t confirm or deny it) for literally half my life !

Now I am willing to consider the much rumoured Chatham tailed operators at some point as viable.

My understanding is Vietnam desperately wants to remain at Heathrow.

Air Asia X financially aren’t in any position to recommence European long haul - let face it whatever way you look at it Long(er) haul low cost models tend to fail , unless combined with a level of tour/cruise contract and protected income streams.


.

[JW95]

Problem with Bangkok is two fold -lack of sufficient premium sales and also wrong place in Thailand for many tourists and indeed the hundred or so “digital nomads come social media bloggers or other dodgy dealers ” down by Krabi and/or Phuket.
Thai have been said to be on the verge of operating to Manchester (said to be one of the largest unserved long haul markets on the planet- can’t confirm or deny it) for literally half my life !

Now I am willing to consider the much rumoured Chatham tailed operators at some point as viable.

My understanding is Vietnam desperately wants to remain at Heathrow.

Air Asia X financially aren’t in any position to recommence European long haul - let face it whatever way you look at it Long(er) haul low cost models tend to fail , unless combined with a level of tour/cruise contract and protected income streams.


.

The Thai Manchester rumour is one I've seen flagged elsewhere numerous times too for years now- I'll believe it when I see them on the tarmac at MAN ;) Clearly demand to Bangkok from London isn't what it once was. Look at BA for example, they operated to BKK for years as BA9 from LHR-BKK-SYD with the 744. Later this was curtailed to BKK only with a 772 before being withdrawn completely. Since then, BA have shown no sign of wanting to resume this route. Scoot also wasn't able to make LGW-BKK work on the 788, and that went quickly.

[Travel24]

Gatwick is in the best possible situation right now. You guys can disagree with me but it is. Vietnam don’t want double daily to London but they don’t have slots for Heathrow in the summer.

if airlines like Singapore airlines are going to Gatwick anyone will. I’ve suggested many airlines that could be maybes not this year but next year too. Thai is a maybe because it is popular just the yield isn’t as good. Every airline I’ve also suggested want Heathrow slots sometimes a lot like Kuwait and gulf air which could make Gatwick a maybe although I haven’t heard anything on them.

also taag get 787s this year so that will enable growth.

I’ve said my list for potentials this year and what I expect. Taag, azul, avianca, cathay, another Chinese airline, air Tanzania, air peace and Sri Lankan.

i think this is quite realistic as a list! If the second runway gets approved it will make everything so much better and east

[JW95]

Gatwick is in the best possible situation right now. You guys can disagree with me but it is. Vietnam don’t want double daily to London but they don’t have slots for Heathrow in the summer.

if airlines like Singapore airlines are going to Gatwick anyone will. I’ve suggested many airlines that could be maybes not this year but next year too. Thai is a maybe because it is popular just the yield isn’t as good. Every airline I’ve also suggested want Heathrow slots sometimes a lot like Kuwait and gulf air which could make Gatwick a maybe although I haven’t heard anything on them.

also taag get 787s this year so that will enable growth.

I’ve said my list for potentials this year and what I expect. Taag, azul, avianca, cathay, another Chinese airline, air Tanzania, air peace and Sri Lankan.

i think this is quite realistic as a list! If the second runway gets approved it will make everything so much better and east

I love your enthusiasm and support for LGW, as I too love this airport, and seeing it bounce back from the situation it was in during Covid, I don't disagree with you completely either. I believe you about Cathay returning to LGW. They were doing well from Gatwick, and had it not been for the mess that was the pandemic, they would have still been here (notwithstanding the political situation in HKG). I am now, as I'm sure others are, eagerly awaiting confirmation of their return in October :)

[Rutan16]

Gatwick is in the best possible situation right now. You guys can disagree with me but it is. Vietnam don’t want double daily to London but they don’t have slots for Heathrow in the summer.

if airlines like Singapore airlines are going to Gatwick anyone will. I’ve suggested many airlines that could be maybes not this year but next year too. Thai is a maybe because it is popular just the yield isn’t as good. Every airline I’ve also suggested want Heathrow slots sometimes a lot like Kuwait and gulf air which could make Gatwick a maybe although I haven’t heard anything on them.

also taag get 787s this year so that will enable growth.

I’ve said my list for potentials this year and what I expect. Taag, azul, avianca, cathay, another Chinese airline, air Tanzania, air peace and Sri Lankan.

i think this is quite realistic as a list! If the second runway gets approved it will make everything so much better and east

Not very much of a critical thinker 🤔

As for TAAG little chance of 2024 deliveries . They didn’t complete the engine choice and power by hour contract till November gone !

They aren’t for expansion as far as I can see but to replace the three already parked 77E and that leased in capacity.

Again look at the virtual African carriers - how on earth are any close to starting up let alone have equipment , licenses and ancillary contract !

And again would YOU put your money anywhere near Air Peace when you know the facts behind them seriously ?

Nigeria Air (Ethiopian) is bogged down in bureaucracy and potential issues with the FGN as to whether Abuja or Lagos should be the base - Ethiopian have a logical preference for the later for commercial reasons. Again to have any agreement aircraft, staff and ancillary contracts; indeed licences and slots in place during 2024 seems extremely optimistic.

Their initial targets are Johannesburg, Addis and Dubai according to the Nigerian authorities - London would be in the second phase .

Remember many many years ago, Avianca at Gatwick on a Thursday afternoon, however can’t see why they would consider a split operation today, just doesn’t make any sense. Have a spare frame best sent on another Spanish rotation imho.
Squeezed capacity is also incredibly useful at maintaining margins 👍

Another Chinese flight maybe depending on the perceived political benefits and organised tour requirements.

Azul I said yes previously - they might be able to borrow slots from their buddies at TAP

Personally still have doubts about Cathay in 2024 , but willing to hold judgement based on the local political situation .

I’d like to here your thought process around SriLanka please.

Having faith isn’t at all compatible with business realities

As for commissioning of the current temporary runway on a more permanent bases , there are many legal and regulatory hurdles including safety concerns, it’s far more than a paper exercise , includes a displaced threshold and NEW construction shoulders to the North , will require local approvals, may only be used for departure sequences on 26R and that’s before a mass of environmental impact assessments and mitigations.

Kuwait and Gulfair are niche and boutique carriers these days and have both taken their UK growth potential elsewhere. Neither has any further capacity any time soon. Alia Royal Jordanian similarly.

[c52]

Surely Gatwick is totally and ridiculously slot-constrained in summer - is easyJet going to sell some to all these other carriers?

Do Aer Lingus's slots belong to IAG or are they up for sale?

[Rutan16]

Surely Gatwick is totally and ridiculously slot-constrained in summer - is easyJet going to sell some to all these other carriers?

Do Aer Lingus's slots belong to IAG or are they up for sale?

Easy have actually relinquished a package of temporary slots back to BA(EFW) in the coming season and are reducing their based fleet size .

The Aer Lingus slot position I don’t actually know; but likely transferred to VLG/EFW/IBS as well.

Someone else might confirm

[chinapattern]

If Air Senegal plan to launch London flights again they might well opt for LGW this time.

[vectisman]

I expect the Aer Lingus slots will go to other IAG airlines. Easyjet also need to return the remaining 140 weekly slots (70 slot pairs) they still have on lease from BA within the next year or so.
Easyjet recently returned 90 weekly slots (45 slot pairs) they had leased from BA back to BA mainly for use by Euroflyer.
Easyjet will have a smaller summer operation from Gatwick in Summer 2024 compared to Summer 2023. Having 80 plus based aircraft at Gatwick for Summer 2023 did not go well for them operationally.
I don't think Gatwick is totally slot constrained for summer 2024. It is more a case of some airlines not always getting the slot times they would really like.

[Sotonsean]

If Air Senegal plan to launch London flights again they might well opt for LGW this time.

In November 2023 it was announced that Air Senegal would be discontinuing four European destinations which includes Barcelona, Lyon, Marseille and Milan, leaving Paris as their core route to Europe.

Even Air Senegal Dakar to New York JFK route is under review as passenger loads are only about 67%.

Air Senegal may have announced Dakar to STN prior to the pandemic but I have doubts that they will be announcing London anytime soon. Especially if they are discontinuing the likes of Lyon and Marseille.

[Sotonsean]

Easy have actually relinquished a package of temporary slots back to BA(EFW) in the coming season and are reducing their based fleet size .

The Aer Lingus slot position I don’t actually know; but likely transferred to VLG/EFW/IBS as well.

Someone else might confirm

I just wanted to congratulate you on your perfect quote regarding the over enthusiastic daydreamer.

"Not very much of a critical thinker"
🤔

Excellent:-)

Regarding your previous post's where you mentioned Air Tanzania and the "second" Boeing 788.

Air Tanzania currently have two Boeing 788 in their fleet with a "third" example joining the airline in Q2 24.

Air Tanzania have previously stated that they intend on resuming service to London once they receive their third Boeing 788.

Uganda Airlines have also previously stated that they intend on resuming service to London once they have received CAA approval and a full audit of Entebbe Airport is completed.

Iraqi Airway recently inaugurated service to Germany and Denmark from Baghdad and Erbil to Berlin, Dusseldorf, Frankfurt and Copenhagen.

Iraqi Airways have recently put out a tender for an ACMI operator for expansion of their European destinations.

Air Asia X have recently stated that they have no intentions in resuming flights to London.

Of course all of these announcements are available to search online.

CH-AVIATION.COM is a very good source if you want to keep up with what is going on in the world of commercial aviation.

[Rutan16]

I just wanted to congratulate you on your perfect quote regarding the over enthusiastic daydreamer.

"Not very much of a critical thinker"
🤔

Excellent:-)

Regarding your previous post's where you mentioned Air Tanzania and the "second" Boeing 788.

Air Tanzania currently have two Boeing 788 in their fleet with a "third" example joining the airline in Q2 24.

Air Tanzania have previously stated that they intend on resuming service to London once they receive their third Boeing 788.

Uganda Airlines have also previously stated that they intend on resuming service to London once they have received CAA approval and a full audit of Entebbe Airport is completed.

Iraqi Airway recently inaugurated service to Germany and Denmark from Baghdad and Erbil to Berlin, Dusseldorf, Frankfurt and Copenhagen.

Iraqi Airways have recently put out a tender for an ACMI operator for expansion of their European destinations.

Air Asia X have recently stated that they have no intentions in resuming flights to London.

Of course all of these announcements are available to search online.

CH-AVIATION.COM is a very good source if you want to keep up with what is going on in the world of commercial aviation.

Not disputing stated intentions whatsoever. Air Tanzania “second” 787 has spent that last three months parked at Selatar . They can’t afford to fly it - No surprise but still .

And again I did say the IA code would reappear do read, rather less likely with a green painted tube through.

[SWBKCB]

While all this talk of new long haul carriers is interesting, what is the impact on the airport? Do they contribute much to the bottom line? I seem to remember handling some of the smaller carriers being quite challenging.

[Travel24]

Don’t know if any of you have heard but Swiss have added Gatwick-Zurich 6 weekly!

[davidjohnson6]

If Swiss (not Edelweiss) are prepared to fly to Gatwick instead of LHR/LCY outside the ski season, then it's effectively open season for all European carriers to do a land grab on whatever slots they can get at LGW. The short-haul market has effectively said NO (with a big booming shouty voice) to paying silly prices for LHR slots. I can't think of another airline in Europe that is more premium focussed

[Sotonsean]

Don’t know if any of you have heard but Swiss have added Gatwick-Zurich 6 weekly!

Is it "heard or read"?

The majority of people tend to find things out by reading articles or on social media, etc rather than "hearing" them. There is a huge difference between hearing and reading.

FYI....Have you heard but according to the SWISS website ZUR-LGW is daily rather than 6 weekly. Flights are available for booking on days 1 to 7.

SWISS announced Zurich to London Gatwick in November 2023.

On another note, the Star Alliance Group have definitely increased their airline presence at LGW over the last few years.

The Star Alliance Group is well represented at LGW by the following airlines.

Aegean Airlines
Air China
Air India
Croatia Airlines
Ethiopian Airlines
Lufthansa
Singapore Airlines
SWISS
TAP Air Portugal
Turkish Airlines


Might be time for a dedicated Star Alliance lounge at LGW which would be a challenge considering that all of the above airlines are spread over the two terminals.