Gatwick-3

[BA318]

Costs at LHR or someone wants their leased winter slots back?
I read that they wanted to go daily but only had enough slots for 5 weekly and couldn't get more. LGW could allow a daily flight.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

LGW offered them a deal to move which makes sense as they've been close to insolvent. Assuming they own their LHR slots, that's money in the bank they REALLY REALLY need if they can sell them on. Air Mauritius is really struggling and has been bailed out by the government (again). Objectively they'll likely do well commercially at LGW, I'd suspect that the next management team will want them back at LHR, which may well be a bad idea for them. Politics seems to dictate things more so than data.

One thought though, every time this happens, people cry that this time it will be different, this time LGW will be back in long haul as a player. And almost every time, it's really just a waiting room for LHR slots. . There's not a long list of successful moves LHR->LGW, Pan Am, TWA, Malev......

BTW Air China isn't even bookable for a service starting in two weeks, what's going on here? Even LHR is only being sold via FRA and Lufthansa in April, the only LHR offering seems to be PVG. I guess someone is using their LHR slots for the summer? Surely they didn't lose them?

Air China 2019W for comparison :
Flt No ETA From Via To Season 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
CA847 06:20 PVG LGW N 2019W 2 3 4 6
CA787 07:10 PEK LHR T2 2019W 1 3 5
CA855 15:55 PEK LHR T2 2019W 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
CA937 17:50 PEK LHR T2 2019W 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
CA423 20:10 CTU LHR T2 2019W 2 4 6

[True Blue]

Air Mauritius moving to Lgw start of W23 with a daily flight

[True Blue]

Skipness, you are a knowledgeable commentator on this thread and offer the view that Lgw is the waiting room for Lhr. With the number of recent announcements of new or returning long haul at Lgw, what is going on at Lhr? Has the slot situation filled to capacity already?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Skipness, you are a knowledgeable commentator on this thread and offer the view that Lgw is the waiting room for Lhr. With the number of recent announcements of new or returning long haul at Lgw, what is going on at Lhr? Has the slot situation filled to capacity already?
And partly because of the relative strength vs. other London airports they can aim to raise charges to better cover the losses of the pandemic. This will be too much for some (Air Mauritius being the first) but the rest will likely swallow the pain, BA will also complain loudly. LGW have already hit rock bottom and now seem to be in "deal making" mode to revitalise the business, LHR don't really need to make deals given their relative strength. I think this summer will see the traffic rebound complete, so fingers crossed the balance sheets are repaired on all sides.
LHR did ask for a large increase in fees but the Govt. capped the ask so the rise was a smaller one.

https://thepointsguy.co.uk/news/heathrow-reduce-passenger-charges/

I will say this, the customer experience at LGW can be very good, but that's because they're not yet back at the point of trying to get a pint into a 1/2 pint pot !

[Asturias56]

"LHR did ask for a large increase in fees but the Govt. capped the ask so the rise was a smaller one."

I thought it was actually a cut from "emergency" levels during Covid

[airhumberside]

Regarding Air China, SeanM1997 posted on twitter that under the terms of the UK-China bilateral, Chinese carriers can't add more LHR-Beijing frequencies until either BA resume the route (or another UK airline starts it). Other UK airports not impacted

[inOban]

Regarding Air China, SeanM1997 posted on twitter that under the terms of the UK-China bilateral, Chinese carriers can't add more LHR-Beijing frequencies until either BA resume the route (or another UK airline starts it). Other UK airports not impacted
And of course Chinese Airlines have an advantage because they can use Russian airspace which Western airlines can't.

[AircraftOperations]

And of course Chinese Airlines have an advantage because they can use Russian airspace which Western airlines can't. ​​​​​​​How would a British passport holder currently be treated in Russia if your Air China flight had to divert to the nearest available Russian airport whilst overflying the country?

[Habana2118]

With all these new airlines coming to LGW this summer, which handling agents have won the contracts?

[davidjohnson6]

I'm getting a little sceptical about Romanian airline Dan Air flying between Brasov/Bucharest and various places in Europe including Gatwick. The website is an absolutely minimal page just showing a countdown to when it will (presumably) go live. The problem is that the go-live date keeps being deferred (current countdown expires on Saturday 25 March), making me think it's far from ready.

[shlamps]

How would a British passport holder currently be treated in Russia if your Air China flight had to divert to the nearest available Russian airport whilst overflying the country?

Probably fairly well as they’d be the responsibility of the Chinese Airline. Can’t see Russia wanting to open that can of worms with it’s main ally.

[JW95]

With the sudden influx of long haul resumptions, in addition to new entrants (e.g. Air Mauritius; Saudia), what exactly are VS doing with their slot portfolio at LGW, assuming that they still hold on to slots at their (now former) Gatwick base? I remember reading from the press release notes in May 2020 that the airline would be consolidating London operations at LHR, with the intention of retaining their LGW slot portfolio so that they could return as demand returned. Realistically, is a VS return to LGW ever likely to happen, especially with the airline having just joined Sky Team, or will the airline likely sell off its LGW slots and remain consolidated at LHR indefinitely?

[strawberry Ribena]

With all these new airlines coming to LGW this summer, which handling agents have won the contracts?

from recruitment pages I’ve seen Red Handling have Delta and GGS have air India.

Air china was with Menzies previously so maybe back there.

Not sure on Saudia - my guess is ASC or dnata

[The96er]

from recruitment pages I’ve seen Red Handling have Delta and GGS have air India.

Air china was with Menzies previously so maybe back there.

Not sure on Saudia - my guess is ASC or dnata

I thought GGS was dedicated to the IAG product, do they do any other 3rd party work ?

[strawberry Ribena]

I thought GGS was dedicated to the IAG product, do they do any other 3rd party work ?
Just BA and VY. Air India is their first non IAG.

[Sotonsean]

And just like that, Air Mauritius has officially announced that it will be leaving LHR in favour of LGW come October this year! :) :) Flights to be operated with a mix of A339s and A359s.

LGW really is on a roll at the moment, and I hope this momentum continues! Question is, who's next?

Source: Air Mauritius press release

This is absolutely excellent news. I can't believe how much LGW is on a roll, it's absolutely fantastic to see the ever increasing list of long airlines and destinations increasing. May it continue:-)

A few possible and potential airlines for LGW to look out for in the future could be.

Air Senegal
Air Tanzania
Iraqi Airways
Ghana Airways
Uganda Airlines

And more than likely some others I can't identify as possibilities.

[Rutan16]

None VISA holders would be detained in sterile airside accommodation- Pretty standard procedure round the world .

Any lengthy stay might involve a bonded coach and hotel room for those on none VISA holders again pretty normal arrangements for “guests” and at all the Chinese carriers expense.

Contrary to the journalistic narrative and dire political relations we are not at war with Russia (just yet) and subject to individual VISA regulations travel between the domains remains doable from our side . (I’ll caveat that with the current conscription of younger and working class males in Russia )

Airlines continuing to cross Russian airspace include Air India, Emirates, Qatar, Pakistan , El-Al, THY, Fly Dubai and Mongolian all carrying Western Passport holders including US, EU and indeed UKNi citizens without even considering the Chinese carriers !

[SWBKCB]

UKNi?

[Rutan16]

[QUOTE=Sotonsean;11404630]This is absolutely excellent news. I can't believe how much LGW is on a roll, it's absolutely fantastic to see the ever increasing list of long airlines and destinations increasing. May it continue:-)

A few possible and potential airlines for LGW to look out for in the future could be.

Air Senegal - After serving every second level French city including my part home in Nantes
Air Tanzania - Said to be on the cards for some time through they have no money of their own ( Just that supplied by China) . Equally they are receiving a freighter shortly for the transport of the plastic crap from China so their 788 may need another route soon.
Iraqi Airways - Unless they can find another third rate EU approved partner they have just been put back on the black list.
Ghana Airways - Probable agreed
Uganda Airlines- See comments over neighbouring country above - Situation almost identical; domestically some of the officers of the business are already under investigation for fraud and corruption and the company is effectively operating in insolvency . Frankly who would give them a line of credit for services delivered

[Rutan16]

UKNi?

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - Legitimate contraction.

GB doesn’t include Northern Ireland

[SWBKCB]

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - Legitimate contraction.

GB doesn’t include Northern Ireland

Isn't it covered by the UK bit? GBNi would be a appropriate contraction.

[BA318]

Isn't it covered by the UK bit? GBNi would be a appropriate contraction.

This is correct.
UK is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

GBNI is also the correct abbreviation (and is used as the reg on one of the Titan A321s used by the Government).

UKNI is a new conformity marking for products placed on the market in Northern Ireland which have undergone mandatory third-party conformity assessment by a body based in the UK. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-ukni-marking

but UKNI is not a recognised way of abbreviating the country.

[True Blue]

So Air China has the new route(PEK) on sale via it's website, but only if you do a search for London. If you specify Lgw it doesn't appear.

[FlyGatwick]

My guess (apart from Air Asia X as already rumoured) is as follows:

Riyadh Air - if this new airline, which as of now exists on paper only, wants to turn its vision to become a challenger to global super connectors EK and QR based out of Riyadh, it won't be able to realise this ambition unless it starts flying to "secondary" cities and airports (in cities served by multiple airports such as London and New York). So, I wouldn't be surprised them announcing a LGW-RUH route. Realistically, however, I expect this to be a medium-term ambition to be realised over a 1-2 year time frame. In the initial phase to be set in motion later this year, I would expect SV to transfer its existing routes like its 3× daily LHR-RUH service to be transferred to Riyadh Air as this is probably easiest to achieve under existing bilateral restrictions, taking into account as well that the LH's and AF-KL's of this world, which never pass up an opportunity to blame EK (and QR) for all their woes (incl. self-inflicted wounds) are unlikely to be delighted at having to face even more competition for their bread-and-butter 6th freedom traffic.

Staying on the topic of more super connectors coming to LGW, I wouldn't be surprised to see AI launch a daily LGW-DEL service within a similar timeframe as I anticipate for Riyadh Air as there is talk that AI wants to turn DEL into its (and India's) first genuine global hub airport (with full support from the Indian government, who is very keen on this). After all, they have to put the 500 or so aircraft they recently ordeed from Airbus and Boeing to good use. Should AI succeed in its ambitious transformation plan under Campbell Wilson's stewardship and go down the EK / QR / TK global super connector route, I would also expect them to build up frequencies on LGW-DEL over time to at least 2 daily round-trips to maximise connecting opportunities and transfer traffic flows at their DEL hub, just as EK has done on LGW-DXB over the past 20 years (and like QR seems to be doing now in partnership with its oneworld alliance partner BA). The interesting question here is, should AI choose to go down that route, when they'll have the mother of all bust-ups with their Star Alliance partner LH, which doesn't like the idea of its hubs at FRA and MUC being bypassed, especially by a partner-turned-rival from within its own alliance, as was the case when TK decided a few years back to turn itself into a global super connector, with its connections at IST quickly surpassing anything LH could offer via FRA / MUC. On a different but related note re potential future expansion of AI at LGW, I can envisage AI launching a daily LGW-BLR service in the not too distant future given that BLR is the Indian equivalent of Silicon Valley (sometimes locally referred to as Silicon Plateau as the city sits on a plateau of approx 900 m above sea level in the Deccan region of southern India), with a large number of natives working in many of the towns and cities in the LGW catchment, who regularly "commute" between LGW and BLR, currently mostly on EK via DXB or (to a lesser extent) BA / QR via DOH.

United - Given that Z0 has just announced a while raft of transatlantic routes to the US, incl. to the UA hub at IAD, it wouldn't surprise me at all if UA announces a daily seasonal LGW-IAD summer service next year and possibly a daily LGW-EWR summer seasonal service as well as a competitive response (the latter especially should Z0 decide to double its own frequency on LGW-JFK to 2 daily round-trips next summer. Initially, I would expect such UA services to be operated with already very long-in-the-tooth 757s, but then quickly to transition to a A321LR, possibly as soon as summer 2025 (should these routes prove to be successful). On a similar note, I'm also expecting DL to launch a daily LGW-BOS summer seasonal service (in addition to its daily LGW-JFK service launching on April 10) to compete wth B6's daily (year-round) LGW-BOS service (in addition to LGW-JFK), probably initially using 757s as well (which could also be used in winter in place of the larger 767 used in summer, thus turning it into a year-round route). As well, I expect BA at some point to revive a daily, year-round LGW-MIA service as a competitive response to Z0 entering the South Florida - UK market via FLL.

Azul - This airline, which this year is launching a 3x or 4x ORY-VCP year-rojķservice, may wish to complement this with a similar VCP-LGW service, possibly starting in summer 2024.

Qantas - provided that QF wants to keep its daily LON-SIN-SYD service following the launch of the first-ever all-year round, daily non-stop LHR-SYD and LHR-MEL services from winter 2025-'26 (for which QF probably needs the LHR slots currently used by the one-stop LHR-SYD A380 service), this service could be transferred to LGW, probably using a 787-9 instead of an A380, operating from the North Terminal, where QF premium passengers, who still prefer the one-stop option, can make use of the EK lounge.

This announcement by Saudia is totally unexpected and I'm personally surprised by it. But non the less a very welcome addition to LGW and it's ever growing long haul network and airline portfolio.

JED-LGW is initially scheduled to be seasonal but hopefully it won't take long until it's a year round route.

Summer 2023 is shaping up to be a great year for LGW regarding long haul expansion. For the first time in many years LGW has quite a few new long haul routes starting in just a short time frame. The list looks impressive and these include the following.

AIR INDIA

Ahmedabad (begins 28 March)
Amritsar (begins 27 March)
Goa (begins 26 March)
Kochi (begins 26 March)

BRITISH AIRWAYS

Aruba (begins 26 March)
Georgetown-Cheddi Jagan (begins 26 March)
Vancouver (begins 19 May)

DELTA AIR LINES

New York JFK (begins 10 April)

NORSE ATLANTIC AIRWAYS

Boston (begins 02 September)
Fort Lauderdale (begins 26 May)
Los Angeles (begins 30 June)
Orlando (begins 25 May)
San Francisco (begins 01 July)
Washington-Dulles (begins 01 June)

SAUDIA
Jeddah (begins 01 June)

I wonder what the next long haul airline will be in announcing LGW?

A few months ago it was mentioned in the aviation media and other related sources that Air Asia X were going to resume service to LGW from Kuala Lumpur via Dubai. I wonder if Air Asia X are still considering resuming the route?

​​​​​​

[JW95]

This may sound like a long shot, but would Garuda be willing to take another look at LGW? Historically, they have had a long history with LGW, originally serving Gatwick from the early 80s up until the early 2000s with the 747, and then again most recently with the 77W between 2014 and 2015 to CGK via AMS. I read somewhere on Airliners Net that the switch to LHR in 2016 did very little (if any) benefit to GA before their eventual withdrawal in 2020, and that Garuda may have possibly been better suited to LGW, possibly to DPS instead of CGK, owing to the fact that Bali has become a popular tourist hotspot and a good route for leisure traffic. There has also been the argument that the 77W was simply the wrong aircraft for GA at the time, mainly being too big. However, perhaps a smaller aircraft, such as the A330-800 or -900 would be better suited if they decided to re-enter the London market?

The other one I was thinking of is Hong Kong Airlines, who of course served LGW with their all-business class A330 in 2012. I think, pre-pandemic, they had expressed interest in potentially relaunching London with their new A350s, but the pandemic and subsequent shutdown of HKG put those plans on hold. Plus the fact that CX had already re-introduced LGW in 2016. I wonder if the HKG route will be reintroduced again from LGW?

[JW95]

My guess (apart from Air Asia X as already rumoured) is as follows:

Riyadh Air - if this new airline, which as of now exists on paper only, wants to turn its vision to become a challenger to global super connectors EK and QR based out of Riyadh, it won't be able to realise this ambition unless it starts flying to "secondary" cities and airports (in cities served by multiple airports such as London and New York). So, I wouldn't be surprised them announcing a LGW-RUH route. Realistically, however, I expect this to be a medium-term ambition to be realised over a 1-2 year time frame. In the initial phase to be set in motion later this year, I would expect SV to transfer its existing routes like its 3× daily LHR-RUH service to be transferred to Riyadh Air as this is probably easiest to achieve under existing bilateral restrictions, taking into account as well that the LH's and AF-KL's of this world, which never pass up an opportunity to blame EK (and QR) for all their woes (incl. self-inflicted wounds) are unlikely to be delighted at having to face even more competition for their bread-and-butter 6th freedom traffic.

Staying on the topic of more super connectors coming to LGW, I wouldn't be surprised to see AI launch a daily LGW-DEL service within a similar timeframe as I anticipate for Riyadh Air as there is talk that AI wants to turn DEL into its (and India's) first genuine global hub airport (with full support from the Indian government, who is very keen on this). After all, they have to put the 500 or so aircraft they recently ordeed from Airbus and Boeing to good use. Should AI succeed in its ambitious transformation plan under Campbell Wilson's stewardship and go down the EK / QR / TK global super connector route, I would also expect them to build up frequencies on LGW-DEL over time to at least 2 daily round-trips to maximise connecting opportunities and transfer traffic flows at their DEL hub, just as EK has done on LGW-DXB over the past 20 years (and like QR seems to be doing now in partnership with its oneworld alliance partner BA). The interesting question here is, should AI choose to go down that route, when they'll have the mother of all bust-ups with their Star Alliance partner LH, which doesn't like the idea of its hubs at FRA and MUC being bypassed, especially by a partner-turned-rival from within its own alliance, as was the case when TK decided a few years back to turn itself into a global super connector, with its connections at IST quickly surpassing anything LH could offer via FRA / MUC. On a different but related note re potential future expansion of AI at LGW, I can envisage AI launching a daily LGW-BLR service in the not too distant future given that BLR is the Indian equivalent of Silicon Valley (sometimes locally referred to as Silicon Plateau as the city sits on a plateau of approx 900 m above sea level in the Deccan region of southern India), with a large number of natives working in many of the towns and cities in the LGW catchment, who regularly "commute" between LGW and BLR, currently mostly on EK via DXB or (to a lesser extent) BA / QR via DOH.

United - Given that Z0 has just announced a while raft of transatlantic routes to the US, incl. to the UA hub at IAD, it wouldn't surprise me at all if UA announces a daily seasonal LGW-IAD summer service next year and possibly a daily LGW-EWR summer seasonal service as well as a competitive response (the latter especially should Z0 decide to double its own frequency on LGW-JFK to 2 daily round-trips next summer. Initially, I would expect such UA services to be operated with already very long-in-the-tooth 757s, but then quickly to transition to a A321LR, possibly as soon as summer 2025 (should these routes prove to be successful). On a similar note, I'm also expecting DL to launch a daily LGW-BOS summer seasonal service (in addition to its daily LGW-JFK service launching on April 10) to compete wth B6's daily (year-round) LGW-BOS service (in addition to LGW-JFK), probably initially using 757s as well (which could also be used in winter in place of the larger 767 used in summer, thus turning it into a year-round route). As well, I expect BA at some point to revive a daily, year-round LGW-MIA service as a competitive response to Z0 entering the South Florida - UK market via FLL.

Azul - This airline, which this year is launching a 3x or 4x ORY-VCP year-rojķservice, may wish to complement this with a similar VCP-LGW service, possibly starting in summer 2024.

Qantas - provided that QF wants to keep its daily LON-SIN-SYD service following the launch of the first-ever all-year round, daily non-stop LHR-SYD and LHR-MEL services from winter 2025-'26 (for which QF probably needs the LHR slots currently used by the one-stop LHR-SYD A380 service), this service could be transferred to LGW, probably using a 787-9 instead of an A380, operating from the North Terminal, where QF premium passengers, who still prefer the one-stop option, can make use of the EK lounge.

Welcome to PPRUNE! :) This is a very interesting list of possible airlines you have flagged up here. I think that with the ongoing (indefinite?) delays with the 3rd runway at LHR, my guess is that we will begin to see more route announcements long-haul-wise from LGW soon, as there will come a point (perhaps already?) where LHR simply cannot accommodate anything further - we have already begun to see evidence of this with Air India splitting operations between LHR and LGW.

Qantas would be a very interesting one. I don't think they've served LGW before? With 'project sunrise' on the horizon starting 2025, they may have no choice but to relocate the existing 1-stop service to Sydney via Singapore to LGW in order to dedicate their LHR slot portfolio to the more non-stop London-Australia services. Of course there is the argument that a move to LGW may prove more costly to QF, due to the need to set up a new London station, recruit ground staff/handling contracts etc. They may even just decide to ditch the LON-SIN route entirely in favour of an all non-stop London-Australia service. In the past, QF use to fly to Australia from LHR via BKK and HKG, and later, DXB. Now, only SIN remains.

Air India - completely second your comments RE. their future expansion at LGW. With the enormous aircraft order they've just placed, I can see them launching an LGW-DEL service further down the line that supplements the existing LHR service.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

This may sound like a long shot, but would Garuda be willing to take another look at LGW? Historically, they have had a long history with LGW, originally serving Gatwick from the early 80s up until the early 2000s with the 747, and then again most recently with the 77W between 2014 and 2015 to CGK via AMS. I read somewhere on Airliners Net that the switch to LHR in 2016 did very little (if any) benefit to GA before their eventual withdrawal in 2020, and that Garuda may have possibly been better suited to LGW, possibly to DPS instead of CGK, owing to the fact that Bali has become a popular tourist hotspot and a good route for leisure traffic. There has also been the argument that the 77W was simply the wrong aircraft for GA at the time, mainly being too big. However, perhaps a smaller aircraft, such as the A330-800 or -900 would be better suited if they decided to re-enter the London market?

The other one I was thinking of is Hong Kong Airlines, who of course served LGW with their all-business class A330 in 2012. I think, pre-pandemic, they had expressed interest in potentially relaunching London with their new A350s, but the pandemic and subsequent shutdown of HKG put those plans on hold. Plus the fact that CX had already re-introduced LGW in 2016. I wonder if the HKG route will be reintroduced again from LGW?
Hong Kong is going to take years to get back to pre-pandemic travel, business travel may not return to the previous highs given what happened politically and how many people have left. The London direct market in 2019 had Virgin x1, BA x 2 and Cathay x 5 out of LHR and a CX A359 out of Gatters. So 9 daily flights, I think Cathay will consolidate at LHR as I am not even sure there's going to be enough traffic to fill those 5 slots without adding another rotation to another London airport. Almost anyone who wants LGW-HKG direct would also make the trip to LHR if that was the other option, so they're not risking market share overall IMHO. Oasis also tried LGW-HKG on the B744 but the relative weakness vs. Cathay killed them. As for Hong Kong airlines, they're at death's door, so again, sadly, not sure flying to the UK is a priority for them.
Garuda remains a basket case, did their London ops ever make money post the ME3 becoming so big? Emirates just offers more options and higher frequency. They'd always be willing to look at London again but I'd be 99% sure it'd lose money for them, and that's on them, not the airport served.
It will be interesting to see how Air India do at LGW considering just how Indian the local population around LHR is !

[JW95]

Hong Kong is going to take years to get back to pre-pandemic travel, business travel may not return to the previous highs given what happened politically and how many people have left. The London direct market in 2019 had Virgin x1, BA x 2 and Cathay x 5 out of LHR and a CX A359 out of Gatters. So 9 daily flights, I think Cathay will consolidate at LHR as I am not even sure there's going to be enough traffic to fill those 5 slots without adding another rotation to another London airport. Almost anyone who wants LGW-HKG direct would also make the trip to LHR if that was the other option, so they're not risking market share overall IMHO. Oasis also tried LGW-HKG on the B744 but the relative weakness vs. Cathay killed them. As for Hong Kong airlines, they're at death's door, so again, sadly, not sure flying to the UK is a priority for them.

Garuda remains a basket case, did their London ops ever make money post the ME3 becoming so big? Emirates just offers more options and higher frequency. They'd always be willing to look at London again but I'd be 99% sure it'd lose money for them, and that's on them, not the airport served.

You're absolutely right, It really is a shame RE. Hong Kong though, as the route had been working well for Cathay. I am aware that they are increasing frequency substantially from LHR come April to revert back up to 5-daily as was previously, however my feeling is that CX will first plan to gradually revert back to an all-77W LHR operation first before LGW is re-opened with the A359. I hope that CX will be back at LGW at some point; certainly it will be interesting to watch this space further down the line as far as Cathay's capacity and network recovery is concerned. Currently, they are targeting 100% pre-pandemic capacity by 2024.

RE Garuda Indonesia - the operation was a mess that progressively got worse with the move to LHR (e.g. multiple route suspensions, route changes from CGK to DPS, stopovers in SIN then later, Medan). I got the feeling that they couldn't really decide on how to make London work for them long term.

[Vokes55]

I believe Qantas still hold four slot pairs at LHR. There's no chance of them starting LGW. I can't see them ditching LHR-SIN either - there's enough local traffic at both ends, as well as connections to BNE. LHR-SYD is also going to have awkward timings due to the curfews at either end, so there would be plenty of passengers who will stick with the current one stop service with it's present timings.

UA maybe, DL to BOS maybe. Riyadh Air possibly. GA no chance, HK Airlines no chance, Azul no chance. African routes by previously mentioned "national" airlines far more likely.

[Travel24]

Qantas and United going to Gatwick for me is highly unlikely, although a week ago I would have said it was very unlikely for air Mauritius to consolidate all its London operations at Gatwick.

Looking into the future then. The next airlines most likely to start operations are air Asia, china eastern, china southern, air Tanzania and Latam. All the national carriers for African nations are highly likely too. Azul Brazil airlines, cathay pacific I think are also likely.

azul Brazil asked for slots at Heathrow for this summer but didn’t get any so I’m guessing they will ask for slots at Gatwick too. Turkmenistan airlines asking for slots is likely.

onto British airways then. I believe they will expand quite a bit in the next year, possibly announcing destinations like Abu Dhabi, Lima, Bogotá etc. short haul possibly places in Tunisia, Egypt, Germany.

I’m the next 6 months I think we will see china eastern, air Asia, china southern introduce flights after that who knows probably an African carrier.

[Rutan16]

Going to suggest a likely Saudi carrier and it’s neither Flynas returning again or Riyadh Air ( Gatwick is not the demographic that carrier is seeking to fill) no it yet another Saudi state owned carrier in the quiet throws of being set up . That is Neom Air.

Gatwick fits perfectly with the tourist demographic Neom is being set up to address.

Saudia already drop a weekly Jeddah flight into Neom enroute I believe and that authority could readily be ceded over .

The Saudi state airline authorities are working on scenario’ s to change the structures away from Saudia which will form the core services from Jeddah including religious related tourist flights.
Riyadh is projected as the centre for business and indeed a stab at a potential hub and spoke operation.
Neom is the epicentre to drive uptake in wealthy more general tourism ( albeit from an Islamic perspective)

[Travel24]

the 2nd carrier in three days has transferred operations from Heathrow to Gatwick. Sky express introducing new daily route to Athens from April 1st which will replace the Heathrow route. Very insane what’s been happening this last week.

[JW95]

the 2nd carrier in three days has transferred operations from Heathrow to Gatwick. Sky express introducing new daily route to Athens from April 1st which will replace the Heathrow route. Very insane what’s been happening this last week.

Considering the beating LGW took during the height of the pandemic, this past week has been pretty extraordinary for Gatwick with new airlines coming in - no doubt Stewart Wingate must be feeling very pleased right now! I hope this will continue :)

[Sotonsean]

Considering the beating LGW took during the height of the pandemic, this past week has been pretty extraordinary for Gatwick with new airlines coming in - no doubt Stewart Wingate must be feeling very pleased right now! I hope this will continue :)

I couldn't agree more, what a week it's been.

Although it was a totally different era to today but the last time Gatwick Airport secured so many new long haul scheduled airlines and destinations in such a short time was between April and August 1980 which for information purposes including the following.

Air Florida...Miami
Air Tanzania...Dar Es Salaam
Air Zimbabwe...Harare
Cathay Pacific Airways...Hong Kong
Garuda Indonesian...Jakarta
Northwest Orient...Minneapolis-Saint Paul
Pan Am...Houston
Philippine Airlines...Manila
Sierra Leone Airways...Freetown
Trans World Airways...New York-JFK
Uganda Airlines...Entebbe
World Airways...Boston

The summer of 1981 was also a fairly good year for Gatwick in gaining new long haul airlines and destinations, which included the following.

Air Florida...Tampa
​​​​​​CAAC...Beijing
Northwest Orient...Boston (route licence transferred from World Airways)
Western Airlines...Anchorage, Denver, Honolulu
World Airways...Baltimore
Yemenia...Sanaa
​​​​

The summer of 1980 was my all time favourite period whilst regularly visiting the long but not forgotten viewing gallery at Gatwick. I can still remember that view so clearly especially when looking back at photos of Gatwick from that period.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

the 2nd carrier in three days has transferred operations from Heathrow to Gatwick. Sky express introducing new daily route to Athens from April 1st which will replace the Heathrow route. Very insane what’s been happening this last week.
Did they ever have their own LHR slots?

[JW95]

Qantas and United going to Gatwick for me is highly unlikely, although a week ago I would have said it was very unlikely for air Mauritius to consolidate all its London operations at Gatwick.

Looking into the future then. The next airlines most likely to start operations are air Asia, china eastern, china southern, air Tanzania and Latam. All the national carriers for African nations are highly likely too. Azul Brazil airlines, cathay pacific I think are also likely.

azul Brazil asked for slots at Heathrow for this summer but didn’t get any so I’m guessing they will ask for slots at Gatwick too. Turkmenistan airlines asking for slots is likely.

onto British airways then. I believe they will expand quite a bit in the next year, possibly announcing destinations like Abu Dhabi, Lima, Bogotá etc. short haul possibly places in Tunisia, Egypt, Germany.

I’m the next 6 months I think we will see china eastern, air Asia, china southern introduce flights after that who knows probably an African carrier.

As far as US airlines are concerned, I'm also doubtful about United, considering their desire to keep everything centralised at LHR, as they have done so for many years, even long before the Bermuda agreement of 2008. They are also unique in the sense that unlike American Airlines, Continental et al., they have never operated scheduled to/from LGW, although I think they previously ran limited charters from Gatwick in the 1980s (I stand corrected). The only way I see them remotely considering LGW will depend on what happens with JetBlue's long term operation at LGW, and whether this expands. They may, say, decide to launch LGW as a competitive response to JetBlue with their A321-NEO. What I think would be more likely is a more competitive response from BA, similar to what they did at the height of Norwegian's operation at Gatwick. Plus, they have indicated that they are now focusing more on LGW than LHR in terms of growth. Sadly, I do not see a situation where American is likely to reinstate LGW, as they were quick to leave Gatwick in 2008, and haven't flown from here since :(

RE. British Airways, I'm very interested to see what they will have planned for long haul at LGW going forwards, particularly as more 777s are allocated here from LHR. Bangkok has previously been highlighted as a potential route from LGW, which was of course historically served for many years from Heathrow. Have they actually terminated Bangkok completely or just suspended it?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I think the obsession with long haul isn't helpful, it will drive you to despair if you follow the medium term trends at LGW.

Saudia offering the Gatwick market the joys of the most Islamic and driest nation on Earth is interesting to say the least but they're new to this game and are trying to build an Emirates sized behemoth from the ground up.
Air India is on a funded strategic growth mission and has massively boosted frequency to London rather than capacity, they're still B787-8 focussed rather than the B77W as they offer more secondary point to point rather than the old BOM and DEL hub stops. Traditionally they've always flown to LHR as their market was literally local to the airport, I'd bet that as part of that funded expansion, they'd be actively looking for more LHR slots in the medium term.
Rumour has it that Air China is at Gatwick only until they can reopen LHR-PEK if and when BA relaunch as per the bilateral.
Air Mauritius moved because they can't afford the charging structure anymore (they're close to insolvent) and Sky Express never had their own slots so far as I can see, ISTBC.
I reckon the best bet for stable long haul growth is Norse, as they may have the same business model as their failed predecessor but they're not carrying a debt mountain like Norwegian.
Organic growth at BA long haul is also on a sound footing I would say. Bangkok has been dropped alas, but maybe one day a LGW fit?
I say this as a former frequent user of LGW when North was painted blue and the facilities were world class and better than LHR, I have a great attachment to Gatters but medium term market trends will break your heart 9 times out of 10. There's no loyalty in business.

[True Blue]

I checked Air China for 10th June. They have flights showing to Pek for both Lgw and Lhr. And that is the position to end of October as far as I can see. So are they keeping both?

[Travel24]

The difference between what airlines seem to be doing now and before is vast. I get what your saying about Air China, however I believe they will switch to Gatwick- Shanghai when British Airways starts Beijing again. With Air India they have also left out major cities such as Bangalore, Kolkata etc so when or if air india get more slots at Heathrow they might introduce these at Gatwick. Saudia asked for 2 daily flights from Gatwick this summer and only got 1 daily so I think they could be permanently at Gatwick.

With Air Mauritius, yes the airport charges are too high and they didn't get enough slots, however they would never have transferred their London operations if airlines like delta etc didn't announce flights here. With Sky Express transferring from Heathrow to Gatwick, yes they were leasing a slot however they are doing exactly the same at Gatwick.

I know its not longhaul but Lufthansa starting flights at Gatwick is massive especially when its to its core base Frankfurt. Now I mentioned this a few days ago, but airlines likely to announce operations in the next six months I believe.

China Eastern- Shanghai. They hold more slots at Gatwick than Heathrow.
Air Asia- Kuala Lumpar
Air Tanzania- Dar es Salaam
China Southern- Wuhan

These might not happen but I would say at least two of these will. Other Airlines that might- LATAM, Azul, Uganda Airlines, Ghana Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Air Zimbabwe, Star Air, Air Senegal.

[LGS6753]

Sky Express applied for (unavailable) slots at LTN before deciding on Gatwick. They operated a brief series LTN-ATH in December 2022.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I checked Air China for 10th June. They have flights showing to Pek for both Lgw and Lhr. And that is the position to end of October as far as I can see. So are they keeping both?
The bilateral theory is from Sean M and twitter. ACL doesn't list any slot movements out of LHR for Air China so far as I can see so not sure what the current slot holding at LHR is for them....

[JW95]

The difference between what airlines seem to be doing now and before is vast. I get what your saying about Air China, however I believe they will switch to Gatwick- Shanghai when British Airways starts Beijing again. With Air India they have also left out major cities such as Bangalore, Kolkata etc so when or if air india get more slots at Heathrow they might introduce these at Gatwick. Saudia asked for 2 daily flights from Gatwick this summer and only got 1 daily so I think they could be permanently at Gatwick.

With Air Mauritius, yes the airport charges are too high and they didn't get enough slots, however they would never have transferred their London operations if airlines like delta etc didn't announce flights here. With Sky Express transferring from Heathrow to Gatwick, yes they were leasing a slot however they are doing exactly the same at Gatwick.

I know its not longhaul but Lufthansa starting flights at Gatwick is massive especially when its to its core base Frankfurt. Now I mentioned this a few days ago, but airlines likely to announce operations in the next six months I believe.

China Eastern- Shanghai. They hold more slots at Gatwick than Heathrow.
Air Asia- Kuala Lumpar
Air Tanzania- Dar es Salaam
China Southern- Wuhan

These might not happen but I would say at least two of these will. Other Airlines that might- LATAM, Azul, Uganda Airlines, Ghana Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Air Zimbabwe, Star Air, Air Senegal.

I'm a little sceptical about Air Asia. The route landscape from LON-KUL today is far different to that to when D7 last served STN, and later, LGW 10 years ago, in that there are far more connections and airline choice available to passengers should they wish to travel to Kuala Lumpur. I remember that towards the end of D7's time at LGW, the price difference compared to travelling on a full service carrier was not that big compared to Air Asia fares, and naturally, more people would have been tempted to fly those carriers (e.g. EK, QR et al.) on a long haul journey instead. Plus they would be going up against MH's twice daily service from LHR, that offers a solid A350 product. So I am really unconvinced Air Asia will re-enter the London market any time soon, especially with their A339s not arriving until at least 2026.

I do however see Cathay Pacific returning to LGW once the LHR operation is back up to peak capacity- and progress towards achieving this is already increasing, with CX offering up to the pre-covid 5 rotations per day from April. On the occasions I flew LGW-HKG with Cathay, the ground staff mentioned that this had become a good route for the airline since it was re-launched in 2016, with frequent overbooking occurring in the summer months. When this will happen, I'm not sure, but I'd reasonably bet that CX will likely look to re-introduce LGW at some stage next year.

Air Zimbabwe - previously served LGW on-and-off over the years. Given their financial situation, I'm unsure whether they are in a position to re-open LGW.

Ghana Airlines - I think has previously served LGW many years ago, are more likely to come to Gatwick over LHR.

[Sotonsean]

I'm a little sceptical about Air Asia. The route landscape from LON-KUL today is far different to that to when D7 last served STN, and later, LGW 10 years ago, in that there are far more connections and airline choice available to passengers should they wish to travel to Kuala Lumpur. I remember that towards the end of D7's time at LGW, the price difference compared to travelling on a full service carrier was not that big compared to Air Asia fares, and naturally, more people would have been tempted to fly those carriers (e.g. EK, QR et al.) on a long haul journey instead. Plus they would be going up against MH's twice daily service from LHR, that offers a solid A350 product. So I am really unconvinced Air Asia will re-enter the London market any time soon, especially with their A339s not arriving until at least 2026.

I do however see Cathay Pacific returning to LGW once the LHR operation is back up to peak capacity- and progress towards achieving this is already increasing, with CX offering up to the pre-covid 5 rotations per day from April. On the occasions I flew LGW-HKG with Cathay, the ground staff mentioned that this had become a good route for the airline since it was re-launched in 2016, with frequent overbooking occurring in the summer months. When this will happen, I'm not sure, but I'd reasonably bet that CX will likely look to re-introduce LGW at some stage next year.

Air Zimbabwe - previously served LGW on-and-off over the years. Given their financial situation, I'm unsure whether they are in a position to re-open LGW.

Ghana Airlines - I think has previously served LGW many years ago, are more likely to come to Gatwick over LHR.

Ghana Airlines, the new national carrier for Ghana was established in September 2022 with operations expected to commence in Q3 2023. Ghana Airlines will initially operate domestically with DHC Dash 8s, the airline also has three Boeing 789 on order with the first delivery expected sometime in 2024.

Ghana International Airlines operated from Accra to London Gatwick between 2005 and 2010, initially with Boeing 757 and towards the airline's final year a Boeing 767.

Ghana Airways on the other hand flew from Accra to London Heathrow. The airline was formed in 1958 and ceased operations in 2004.

Ghana Airways DC10-30s were seen at London Gatwick during the late eighties operating between London Gatwick and Bridgetown, Barbados on behalf of the Barbadian owned national carrier, International Caribbean Airways.

The establishment of Ghana Airlines will bring the 12-year absence of a national carrier in Ghana to an end. This follows the collapse of former national airlines Ghana Airways in 2004, and Ghana International Airlines, six years later in 2010.

Air Zimbabwe, the state owned national carrier of Zimbabwe commenced direct flights between Harare and London Gatwick in June 1980 with Boeing 707-320.

Air Zimbabwe purchased two brand new Boeing 767-200ER in 1995.

Air Zimbabwe flew for almost thirty two years of continuous service between Harare and London Gatwick.

Air Zimbabwe suspended it's London flights on the 02 January 2012 after one of it's Boeing 767s was impounded at Gatwick on 14 December 2011 over unpaid bills.

The state owned Air Zimbabwe last year cleared the US$1,4 million debt it owed to IATA and hopes to rejoin the organisation.

According to the "The Herald" (Harare) dated 10 March 2023.

"Air Zimbabwe is expecting delivery of a new plane at the end of the month, while plans to resuscitate the Harare to London route are well underway following the clearance of the international Air Transport Association debt. Plans are now focused for Air Zimbabwe on expanding the international connections from Harare with a resumption to London being a priority for the airline"

So considering all that, then Air Zimbabwe could well be resuming Harare to London Gatwick at some point in the future. Much of the African press are also reporting this as are various aviation websites.

I fully agree with your analysis of the Cathay Pacific situation and their possible return to LGW at some point.

I also fully agree with your analysis of Air Asia X. I personally don't see them resuming a Kuala Lumpur to London Gatwick route be-it via Dubai or direct for the same reasons you have mentioned.

[SWBKCB]

Talk of these potential newcomers is interesting, but they aren't delivering volume just adding complexity. Will anybody make any money out of them?

[Sotonsean]

Talk of these potential newcomers is interesting, but they aren't delivering volume just adding complexity. Will anybody make any money out of them?

The same could be said about many current airlines and routes.

Your posts always seem to be negative with more or less the same questions posed everytime.

[True Blue]

No new routes today?

[SWBKCB]

The same could be said about many current airlines and routes.

Your posts always seem to be negative with more or less the same questions posed everytime.

Glad I'm being consistent (and based on an earlier life, not having to handle Air Zimbabwe or Ghana Airlines)

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The same could be said about many current airlines and routes.
Your posts always seem to be negative with more or less the same questions posed everytime.
Let's play the ball and not the man, it's business not religion or football, often a hobby that's meant to be fun.
The list of suggested airlines above area good example of making money being forgotten. Garuda don't know how to, Qatar don't really care, Saudia have more money than God himself. And then we see that Emirates can and do make money, remarkably well. Some developing world airlines are crucial in projecting national identity and prestige, just like we did with BOAC in the 1950s. Making money comes a poor 2nd or 3rd. That has been the case with Air India and only time will tell if that has changed.

[CabinCrewe]

I expect BA at some point to revive a daily, year-round LGW-MIA service
I don’t see that happening in a million years…

[Travel24]

A week ago I would have said many destinations and the types of airlines announced wouldn't be added for years. Gatwick is becoming very well connected globally. Yes I don't see British Airways operating on routes that could hurt the operations at Heathrow, however there has to come a point where why don't you just do both.

I think there is more chance of British Airways recommencing For Lauderdale. British Airways long haul at Gatwick generates so much income for the airline and reasons why have been previously mentioned on this thread. I believe British Airways will have to act fast with their expansion as I believe from working there that airlines will keep flooding in. Gatwick are in talks with other indian airlines to commence operations. I think Vistara may launch, we shall see!

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

British Airways will have to act fast with their expansion as I believe from working there that airlines will keep flooding in.
The only way BA can expand long haul LGW over the next few seasons is by downsizing LHR. They're really tight on aircraft with B787 delays and B744 early retirement.

[JW95]

No doubt that BA are in expansion mode at LGW, which is brilliant to see, considering there was speculation just under 2 years ago that the airline could have ditched LGW entirely like Virgin did. Luckily, it didn't and have signalled a clear intention to focus more on LGW going forwards. In saying this, I do think expansion will be more gradual. As has been mentioned, the early retirement of the 744s in 2020 has now resulted in a shortage of long haul aircraft for the airline, meaning that any additional LHR hand-me-down 777s destined for LGW will have to wait until the delivery of more 787s, A350s and the new 777-9. I wonder if in addition to the 772, we will eventually see some of the 77Ws at Gatwick? BA have never to date provided a clear answer as to what the eventual fleet replacement of the LGW 772 fleet will be.

[nguba]

I have wondered whether the Airbus A321LR/XLR would work for BA at LGW in opening up new long haul leisure routes.

IAG would obviously insist the aircraft are leased. Pre COVID-19 it would have fitted in perfectly for BA at Gatwick, complementing the Boeing 777-200 and also being used on short-haul routes if needed and to maximise aircraft utilisation. That was of course until IAG forced the BA EuroFlyer split....

[CabinCrewe]

I have wondered whether the Airbus A321LR/XLR would work for BA at LGW in opening up new long haul leisure routes.

IAG would obviously insist the aircraft are leased. Pre COVID-19 it would have fitted in perfectly for BA at Gatwick, complementing the Boeing 777-200 and also being used on short-haul routes if needed and to maximise aircraft utilisation. That was of course until IAG forced the BA EuroFlyer split....
I must be on a different planet. What specific long haul leisure ex LGW do you see a brand new BA XLR offering?

[Sotonsean]

A week ago I would have said many destinations and the types of airlines announced wouldn't be added for years. Gatwick is becoming very well connected globally. Yes I don't see British Airways operating on routes that could hurt the operations at Heathrow, however there has to come a point where why don't you just do both.

I think there is more chance of British Airways recommencing For Lauderdale. British Airways long haul at Gatwick generates so much income for the airline and reasons why have been previously mentioned on this thread. I believe British Airways will have to act fast with their expansion as I believe from working there that airlines will keep flooding in. Gatwick are in talks with other indian airlines to commence operations. I think Vistara may launch, we shall see!

As I'm sure you're aware, Vistara are to merge with Air India with completion expected by March 2024.

If Vistara did indeed launch a DEL-LGW service this could well be a prelude to an Air India flight from next March.

[JW95]

With the news that Sky Express will be joining LGW next month, what are the likely implications of this on Aegean's seasonal service to ATH? There will be 3 other carriers servicing LGW-ATH, including Wizz, EasyJet and Sky Express. Is this likely to lead to Aegean ending the route and leaving LGW entirely in favour of a consolidated operation at LHR? They had also previously served STN on two occasions, but I'm unsure they would re-open STN given that FR fly STN-ATH, albeit just once daily.

[Keanaga]

Jet2 start Stn-Ath next week also.

[True Blue]

Has Lufthansa dropped Lgw - Fra before it starts? Flights appear on various booking engines but nothing shows on their own site. Maybe it is a glitch.

[Travel24]

I’ve found the same. Does anyone have any clarification about Lufthansa cutting Gatwick flights.

[pabely]

Sky Express applied for (unavailable) slots at LTN before deciding on Gatwick. They operated a brief series LTN-ATH in December 2022.
The Blue Air slots at Luton will come up for sale at some point, remembering how much the Monarch ones went for they won't be cheap if Sky Express are still interested, I think they are 5 sets most days. A chance there but Wizzair, Easyjet & Ryanair (maybe El Al) will have their eyes on them.

[ajamieson]

I have wondered whether the Airbus A321LR/XLR would work for BA at LGW in opening up new long haul leisure routes.
It puzzles me that IAG can see the benefit of these aircraft for Aer Lingus at DUB and MAN but not for BA even though they would be ideal for thinner long-haul and solve the mid-haul product problem eg LHR to CAI, AMM etc.

[pabely]

It puzzles me that IAG can see the benefit of these aircraft for Aer Lingus at DUB and MAN but not for BA even though they would be ideal for thinner long-haul and solve the mid-haul product problem eg LHR to CAI, AMM etc.
CAI & AMM are not LH, these can be done with standard 321, need extra capacity not miles. 772 Maybe.

[JW95]

I’ve found the same. Does anyone have any clarification about Lufthansa cutting Gatwick flights.

I've just tried doing a mock booking for LGW-FRA on their website and they're definitely still running at 2 daily with the A320. Only change I see is that they will no longer operate to/from the South terminal as originally filed.

[Dannyboy39]

No doubt that BA are in expansion mode at LGW, which is brilliant to see, considering there was speculation just under 2 years ago that the airline could have ditched LGW entirely like Virgin did. Luckily, it didn't and have signalled a clear intention to focus more on LGW going forwards. In saying this, I do think expansion will be more gradual. As has been mentioned, the early retirement of the 744s in 2020 has now resulted in a shortage of long haul aircraft for the airline, meaning that any additional LHR hand-me-down 777s destined for LGW will have to wait until the delivery of more 787s, A350s and the new 777-9. I wonder if in addition to the 772, we will eventually see some of the 77Ws at Gatwick? BA have never to date provided a clear answer as to what the eventual fleet replacement of the LGW 772 fleet will be.
I'm actually surprised that they haven't been a bit more proactive on this up until now. Almost the whole 777-200ER fleet is over 20 years old, so I thought they'd have got in long term orders by this point. I would suspect these would be replaced by variants of the 787 longer term.

[JW95]

I'm actually surprised that they haven't been a bit more proactive on this up until now. Almost the whole 777-200ER fleet is over 20 years old, so I thought they'd have got in long term orders by this point. I would suspect these would be replaced by variants of the 787 longer term.

I am as well. Granted, it wasn't long ago (2018) when BA densified the LGW 772 fleet, but even so, they are ageing and will need replacing in the medium term. From a competitive stand position, BA need to invest in new a/c for LGW, especially when other carriers at Gatwick are operating far newer aircraft on long haul routes, including the 787-8 (AI, QR), 787-9 (TUI, Z0, QH, SV), A339 (MK) and A359 (MK).

My thinking is that IAG will eventually place a new aircraft order dedicated to LGW fleet renewal, as the current order of 787s, A350s and 77X is primarily dedicated to an LHR-wide fleet renewal. I reckon that the A350-900 could be a perfect, like-for-like fleet replacement for LGW long haul, plus BA would always be free to densify following recent airbus modifications should they wish. I'm unsure about a 787 order for Gatwick, as it would be more difficult to accommodate a 3-4-3 Y layout if BA wished to do so. Alternatively, they could order a batch of 77W, which again could be densified easily (and has already been done so by the vast majority of airlines operating the 777-300ER). The A350-900 is a fantastic aircraft to fly on, so it would be good seeing it in BA colours at LGW eventually.

[pabely]

Hopefully a one off and this is not going to be an issue with Easter coming up
http://BBC News - Gatwick Airport 'running well' after technical issue caused long queues https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-65075418

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

My thinking is that IAG will eventually place a new aircraft order dedicated to LGW fleet renewal, as the current order of 787s, A350s and 77X is primarily dedicated to an LHR-wide fleet renewal. I reckon that the A350-900 could be a perfect, like-for-like fleet replacement. The A350-900 is a fantastic aircraft to fly on, so it would be good seeing it in BA colours at LGW eventually.
BA haven't put a new long haul machine into LGW since G-VIIO/P/R were delivered as DC10 replacements. They also had a handful of late build B744s delivered to LGW via CBG but BA always always do hand me downs. There was talk of new NEOs for LGW and they got ex Wizz Air CEOs instead as Finance said "No". CAPEX is all about LHR, LGW is the poor relation, that's why they can't make money on short haul or regions, the only thing BA "get", is hub and spoke at LHR. And even LGW long haul is crewed by LHR pilots. On one level you're right, but I can't see them spending the money. I'd expect LHR B77Ws in about ten years time to make the trip round the M25....

[Asturias56]

Skipness is right

BA have NEVER put any value on LGW operations - they'd far rather it died and everyone had to schelp over to LHR

[FlyGatwick]

I've just tried doing a mock booking for LGW-FRA on their website and they're definitely still running at 2 daily with the A320. Only change I see is that they will no longer operate to/from the South terminal as originally filed.
So, have they switched to the North Terminal then?

[FlyGatwick]

I'm a little sceptical about Air Asia. The route landscape from LON-KUL today is far different to that to when D7 last served STN, and later, LGW 10 years ago, in that there are far more connections and airline choice available to passengers should they wish to travel to Kuala Lumpur. I remember that towards the end of D7's time at LGW, the price difference compared to travelling on a full service carrier was not that big compared to Air Asia fares, and naturally, more people would have been tempted to fly those carriers (e.g. EK, QR et al.) on a long haul journey instead. Plus they would be going up against MH's twice daily service from LHR, that offers a solid A350 product. So I am really unconvinced Air Asia will re-enter the London market any time soon, especially with their A339s not arriving until at least 2026.

I do however see Cathay Pacific returning to LGW once the LHR operation is back up to peak capacity- and progress towards achieving this is already increasing, with CX offering up to the pre-covid 5 rotations per day from April. On the occasions I flew LGW-HKG with Cathay, the ground staff mentioned that this had become a good route for the airline since it was re-launched in 2016, with frequent overbooking occurring in the summer months. When this will happen, I'm not sure, but I'd reasonably bet that CX will likely look to re-introduce LGW at some stage next year.

Air Zimbabwe - previously served LGW on-and-off over the years. Given their financial situation, I'm unsure whether they are in a position to re-open LGW.

Ghana Airlines - I think has previously served LGW many years ago, are more likely to come to Gatwick over LHR.

Re your statement AI having left major Indian cities like BLR and CCU without a direct London link.

To the best of my knowledge, AI actually do fly to BLR from LHR. Apart from the 4 (mainly VFR-oriented) routes they did transfer to LGW effective today, the only direct route they dropped (ex-LHR) and haven't reinstated is HYD. (HYD like BLR is a centre for the IT and other high tech industries in the Deccan peninsula of southern India). The 3 weekly pairs of slots AI's LHR-HYD service was using at the LHR end have been repurposed to expand AI's LHR-DEL schedule I believe. DEL is going to be India's (and the entire subcontinent's) first global hub. Following the completion of the merger between UK and AI some time next year, the UK slots at LHR (I believe for a daily LHR-DEL and a daily LHR-BOM service although not commonly timed) should then become available for use by AI as well, allowing them to boost LHR-BOM frequency to 3 daily round-trips and LHR--DEL to up to 4 daily round-trips.) If AI wants to realise its stated ambition of [re]capturing 30% of all international air traffic from and to India, the best way to do this is to transform itself into the 4th global super connector (after EK, QR and TK), even if this risks bringing AI into open conflict with other Star Alliance members, especially LH who still seem to think that the whole world owes them a living and should therefore be compelled to feed their hubs at FRA and MUC. If AI will go down the global super connector route with DEL taking on the role of its global super hub, I believe that medium-term, AI will complement LHR-DEL with LGW-DEL and possibly STN-DEL as well, just like EK has simultaneously served LHR as well as LGW from its global super hub in DXB for at least the past 30 years (now replicating this at STN as well), probably starting with LGW-DEL first, possibly as soon as 2025, initially with a single daily service, to which a 2nd (and eventually a 3rd) daily rotation could be added subsequently to tie in with AI's banks of connecting flights at its DEL super hub. Doing this at LGW before replicating at STN would also make connercial sense as AI will already have a station at LGW, where additional activity will help spread overheads over a bigger revenue base. In addition to linking LGW to AI's (hopefully) forthcoming DEL super hub, from my perspective, there is also a solid business case for adding a daily LGW-BLR service given the number of IT professionals hailing from BLR working in various companies in LGW's catchment, not only incl. Crawley (and the town's main business area in Manor Royal), but in Horsham (primarily at the Royal Sun Alliance global headquarters), East Grinstead, Horley, Brighton and Croydon) and who until now have been using EK (to a lesser extent BA / QR) ex-LGW to "commute" to / from BLR, changing flights in DXB / DOH an route. A daily LGW-BLR service complementing the existing LHR-BLR service would also give AI 2 daily LON-BLR flights. This frequency could eventually be further expanded (from both LHR - slot availability permitting - and LGW) should AI choose to make BLR its main regional hub for southern India as well as its 2nd global hub given its stated desire to establish multiple hubs across India as also a "geopolitical insurance policy" aganst Pakistan closing its airspace to Indian airlines at any given time as efficient flight routings to all destinations west of DEL do require the use of Pakistani airspace, which isn't the case as far as BLR (as well as BOM, HYD and MAA and any other southern and southwestern Indian cities are concerned). And once Mumbai's 2nd airport at Navi Mumbai (New Bombay) is up and running it could become AI's 3rd global hub as it won't face the physical restrictions of BOM - primarily that like LGW it is configured for one-runway operation as its 2 runways intersect each other and therefore can't be used simultaneously, a constraint not conducive to operating an omnidirectional global hub as BA's past experience at LGW attests. While CCU could plausibly be turned into AI's regional northeastern hub, Kolkata, the city that was the original capital of the British Raj when it was known as Calcutta, is - by Indian standards - an economic backwater compared with the likes of Mumbai, Bangalore, Hyderabad, the National Capital Region (which includes Delhi) and even Chennai (the former main southern administrative centre of the Raj when it was still known as Madras).
On a different but LGW-related note, another plausible long-haul prospect for LGW in my opinion is Premia Air, a new(ish?) South Korean hybrid airline somewhat similar to Bamboo Air of Vietnam (which started flying to LGW last year, from both Ho Chi Minh City and Hanoi). Like Bamboo, Premia uses Boeing 787-9s on its long-haul routes and has already started flying tgese aircraft to FRA (its first European destination).

[JW95]

BA haven't put a new long haul machine into LGW since G-VIIO/P/R were delivered as DC10 replacements. They also had a handful of late build B744s delivered to LGW via CBG but BA always always do hand me downs. There was talk of new NEOs for LGW and they got ex Wizz Air CEOs instead as Finance said "No". CAPEX is all about LHR, LGW is the poor relation, that's why they can't make money on short haul or regions, the only thing BA "get", is hub and spoke at LHR. And even LGW long haul is crewed by LHR pilots. On one level you're right, but I can't see them spending the money. I'd expect LHR B77Ws in about ten years time to make the trip round the M25....

Yes, LGW has always sadly played out as the poor relation to LHR - however, they have clearly indicated that their focus is on LGW as far as current expansion is concerned, and no doubt they are wary that any scaling back of operations/non-use of slots will serve to only strengthen the position of LCCs at LGW, mainly EZY and to a lesser extent, Wizz. I'm sure that this is the last thing they would want, as this would almost be a replay of when BA began scaling back its operation post 9/11, which of course signalled the beginning of the rise of EZY at LGW.

With regards to the LGW fleet, surely BA will not continue to operate the 772 when they turn 30 years old and beyond that? Surely they will need to come to a fleet replacement decision soon, even if it is a matter of buying far younger, second-hand 77Ws offloaded by Emirates/Etihad for instance?

[Asturias56]

"surely BA will not continue to operate the 772 when they turn 30 years old and beyond that?"

whats so magical about 30 years old? It's probably far cheaper to upgrade the cabin than to buy replacements

[cavokblues]

It will be interesting to see where the 737 MAXs IAG have on order go. If (and it seems a big if) they go to BA then I guess LHR would be the preferred base and then that would allow some second hand aircraft to move to Gatwick. I think BA at Gatwick will remain 772s and the 320 family for a while yet.

[JW95]

"surely BA will not continue to operate the 772 when they turn 30 years old and beyond that?"

whats so magical about 30 years old? It's probably far cheaper to upgrade the cabin than to buy replacements

Nothing specifically haha, I guess that would be pretty major as far as a passenger aircraft is concerned, plus I'm unsure if BA have extended the life of their aircraft this far previously - I don't recall any of their 747s - (100/200/400) being in service for that long

[JW95]

So, have they switched to the North Terminal then?

Correct - I remember seeing on their website that they were to operate to/from the South Terminal initially; perhaps GIP relocated them to the North owing to shortage of space in the South Terminal?

[Asturias56]

as of Oct 2022:-

To put it succinctly, the oldest aircraft flying for British Airways these days (https://simpleflying.com/tag/british-airways/) are the airline's Boeing 777-200ERs. After fully phasing out its non-ER 777-200s (https://simpleflying.com/british-airways-final-boeing-777-200-retirement/) in August 2020, the airline's oldest group of jets are the 43 777-200ERs, which average 23 years of age

The absolute oldest at the moment is the aircraft registered G-VIIA. This jet was delivered in July of 1997 and is now 26 years old. The majority of these aircraft arrived between mid-1997 and October 2001. This was followed by a smaller batch of deliveries in 2009.

Despite their status as the oldest aircraft in the fleet, British Airways put this fleet through an extensive cabin refurbishment process between 2019 and 2021. Thus, passengers stepping aboard the jets will find the airline's latest Club suites in business class, as well as newly fitted premium and economy seating as well.

According to the comprehensive PlaneSpotters log (https://www.planespotters.net/), the oldest commercial aircraft (2020) registered in the United Kingdom still listed as “active” is a Boeing 757-200 aircraft, operated by Jet2 (https://thepointsguy.co.uk/news/jet2-increases-canaries-bfs-edi/). This plane, with registration G-LSAG, has been operating for more than 32 years, since 1987. The aircraft was first operated by the Civil Aviation Administration of China in 1987 before being delivered to China Southern Airlines in 1990. Jet2 took delivery of the aircraft in 2006. But Loganair were operating a 40 year old Twotter at that time

[The96er]

It will be interesting to see where the 737 MAXs IAG have on order go. If (and it seems a big if) they go to BA then I guess LHR would be the preferred base and then that would allow some second hand aircraft to move to Gatwick. I think BA at Gatwick will remain 772s and the 320 family for a while yet.

They’re unlikely to be part of a LHR operation, assuming they do go to BA. The lack of containerised load holding would not be in fitting with LHR’s Ops. Officially, they’re bound for Vueling. I, however do not see that happening as VY have a large Airbus fleet and I don’t see that having a small Boeing fleet would be in their interests. More likely, if I were a betting man, I’d say they’re Euroflyer bound judging by the size of the order which would be a perfect fit for a stand alone operation.

[ATNotts]

Asturias56,

I imagine you were thinking only of PAX aircraft, however DHL Air 757 G-BMRA has not long turned 36, in February this year.

[Big Tudor]

as of Oct 2022:-
According to the comprehensive PlaneSpotters log (https://www.planespotters.net/), the oldest commercial aircraft (2020) registered in the United Kingdom still listed as “active” is a Boeing 757-200 aircraft, operated by Jet2 (https://thepointsguy.co.uk/news/jet2-increases-canaries-bfs-edi/). This plane, with registration G-LSAG, has been operating for more than 32 years, since 1987. The aircraft was first operated by the Civil Aviation Administration of China in 1987 before being delivered to China Southern Airlines in 1990. Jet2 took delivery of the aircraft in 2006. But Loganair were operating a 40 year old Twotter at that time

G-LSAG was WFU at Kemble in late 2019

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

They’re unlikely to be part of a LHR operation, assuming they do go to BA. The lack of containerised load holding would not be in fitting with LHR’s Ops. Officially, they’re bound for Vueling. I, however do not see that happening as VY have a large Airbus fleet and I don’t see that having a small Boeing fleet would be in their interests. More likely, if I were a betting man, I’d say they’re Euroflyer bound judging by the size of the order which would be a perfect fit for a stand alone operation.
If they are for a realunched BA Euroflyer would this be the carrot to entice a seperate seniority list for pilots? Cut even more costs with the enticement of a growing fleet and a quick path to command in short hail albeit one on the Max and disconnected from the Hub and Spoke LHR operation AND cost structure. The 1/2 way house at the moment isn't built to last IMHO. But seems odd IAG that the finance team would okay this for an operation that hasn't had a single season under their belt yet?

[SWBKCB]

It will be interesting to see where the 737 MAXs IAG have on order go. If (and it seems a big if) they go to BA then I guess LHR would be the preferred base and then that would allow some second hand aircraft to move to Gatwick. I think BA at Gatwick will remain 772s and the 320 family for a while yet.

Aren't the MAX8's on order the high density version? Surely even BA haven't fallen so low as to put them in LHR?

[The96er]

Aren't the MAX8's on order the high density version? Surely even BA haven't fallen so low as to put them in LHR?

Who’s to say that the end plan isn’t a formation of a full LCC (“gee, we messed up selling Go to EZY”) - Not BA Euroflyer, just ‘Euroflyer’ - we’ll see in time.

[Asturias56]

Asturias56,

I imagine you were thinking only of PAX aircraft, however DHL Air 757 G-BMRA has not long turned 36, in February this year.

correct - but the point I was answering was about BA 777's not all types of aircraft in general

TBH I never enquire about the age of the airframe I'm flying in - might make me worry......... I suspect my DC-3 rides are the oldest tho'

[davidjohnson6]

Dan Air have *finally* put tickets on sale to Brasov and Bucharest... flights are each 1x weekly on Fridays from 16 June

[JW95]

Dan Air have *finally* put tickets on sale to Brasov and Bucharest... flights are each 1x weekly on Fridays from 16 June
At 1 weekly, these guys are going to have a seriously tough time competing against W6, who are at 1 daily with the A321 (albeit at not so desirable flight times), in addition to their 5 daily LTN-OTP operation, and FR who fly to OTP from STN 4 times a day.

[davidjohnson6]

TUI to start flying from Gatwick to Frankfurt. Yes, FRA, Lufthansa's hub. Yes, I have verified on the TUI UK website, in conjunction with river cruises. Begins at the start of winter 2023-24

[AirportPlanner1]

TUI already operate out of FRA and have aircraft based there so this isn’t so crazy. Good to see them being more imaginative and using their assets efficiently.

[pabely]

Dan Air have *finally* put tickets on sale to Brasov and Bucharest... flights are each 1x weekly on Fridays from 16 June
W6 starting x3 weekly from Brasov to LTN in August. Enjoy the 2 months Dan Air while you can.

[davidjohnson6]

W6 starting x3 weekly from Brasov to LTN in August. Enjoy the 2 months Dan Air while you can.
I wish Dan Air no harm. I very much enjoyed visiting Brasov as a tourist about 10 years ago, and am trying to persuade Mrs Johnson to go there
However... I am dubious as to their plans regarding Brasov. In particular it seems they are due to fly internationally the day (or the day after) the airport opens. There's an awful lot that can go wrong or not be properly in place for the opening day... even Scandinavian Mountains airport in Sweden c*cked it up - they didn't get immigration fully in place for about 6 weeks after they opened so all flights from the UK had to divert to Oslo
I think that 2 month gap between Dan Air and Wizz Air starting is going to see more teething issues and perhaps end up rather shorter than Dan Air might wish. Wizz seem to have taken the rather more sensible option from an ops perspective - namely let Dan Air be the guinea-pig, only to devour it once the expermentation is complete

[JW95]

An interesting new TUI route for LGW - TUI to operate direct charter services to SIN using the 788, 1 weekly, effective 13th December this year. This will mark the second time that LGW has seen direct flights to Singapore in recent years, following in the footsteps of Norwegian long haul.

[davidjohnson6]

An interesting new TUI route for LGW - TUI to operate direct charter services to SIN using the 788, 1 weekly, effective 13th December this year. This will mark the second time that LGW has seen direct flights to Singapore in recent years, following in the footsteps of Norwegian long haul.
Who are the target market for these flights ? People on 1 week cruises ? I wasn't aware that TUI were planning to have a ship in the region...

[Cazza_fly]

Who are the target market for these flights ? People on 1 week cruises ? I wasn't aware that TUI were planning to have a ship in the region...

Tui Marella Cruises will be basing Marella Discovery 2 there for the winter season.

[MAC 40612]

Nothing specifically haha, I guess that would be pretty major as far as a passenger aircraft is concerned, plus I'm unsure if BA have extended the life of their aircraft this far previously - I don't recall any of their 747s - (100/200/400) being in service for that long

The -400 series B747 would still be in service if not for the pandemic, as the remaining aircraft were envisaged to be in service until at least 2025-6 and were all in the process of having the cabin upgraded [WI-FI/New Panasonic IFE/New club seats etc] and they were due to be replaced by the 777X, so they probably would have stayed on for longer as the 777X is delayed. The airframes were all still in good shape and there were no leasing costs [long since paid off] and they were a dependable aircraft and were regularly being used as back-ups for when the A380 went tech...

Getting back to how long the Boeing 777-236s will be in service on one of the last investor meetings to be held by WW before he left BA, I remember listening to a audio transcript of the meeting [I must have been bored that day :)] and having to pause and replay the section more than once about how long he envisaged running the Boeing 777 fleet in BA as he stated it was the intention to keep them going for 40 years!! There isn't actually anything wrong with running older airframes, it's just with age, they just naturally need more maintenance and you get more problems on older airframes. The problem at BA is they have continued to shrink the size of their engineering departments over the years. LGW is a good example, they have completely shut down the hangar/base operation there and it is now only a ramp operation.

Now I know he has long gone from BA and IAG [he's now at IATA] but I suspect given how tight IAG are with the purse strings they probably intend to hold onto aircraft as long as possible.

[MAC 40612]

Skipness is right

BA have NEVER put any value on LGW operations - they'd far rather it died and everyone had to schelp over to LHR

You're definitely correct about BA never putting value on LGW operations but for them it is a 'necessary evil' as there is no way LHR could handle all the existing LGW operation, as there isn't enough room at LHR with the existing Heathrow operation already split between Terminal 5 and Terminal 3

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I thought the BA Hangar (Hangar 6)at Gatwick had been reprieved? It's been closed and sitting empty now?

In related news, Hangar 7 (ex Virgin, BA, FLS) is being offered :
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/126604031#/?channel=COM_LET

[vectisman]

I thought the BA Hangar (Hangar 6)at Gatwick had been reprieved? It's been closed and sitting empty now?

In related news, Hangar 7 (ex Virgin, BA, FLS) is being offered :
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/126604031#/?channel=COM_LET

I am not sure it has closed as they have been advertising for engineers recently. Can’t see the sense of such a decision myself with over 30 based mainline and Euroflyer aircraft this summer.
Unless of course they are moving to hangar7!
The BA Gatwick Engineering Director/Manager is still in post.

[vectisman]

Just read the the posts of MAC 40612. If it’s is closed permanent that is not good news.

[vectisman]

I suppose the 777s can use the Boeing Hangar at Gatwick. The 787s regularly visit there from Heathrow for maintenance checks. The short haul airbus fleet seem to be going
to Madrid and Manchester. Sad and depressing in terms of lost opportunities for local workforce and aspiring engineers.

[MAC 40612]

Just read the the posts of MAC 40612. If it’s is closed permanent that is not good news.

Hangar 6 definitely closed, they had to vacate it, for the same reason that many other older industrial buildings of that era cannot be used anymore, I'll let you figure out the reason....

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Hangar 6 definitely closed, they had to vacate it, for the same reason that many other older industrial buildings of that era cannot be used anymore, I'll let you figure out the reason....
Same reason all the offices at Technical Block A at Heathrow have been closed off for decades....?
God that's depressing, I remember when BA took over BCAL just how much Engineering support and hangarage they had at Gatter, all gone now. No wonder the B777s rotate through LHR way more than before.

[Sotonsean]

Saudia have announced that JED-LGW will operate into the winter 2023 season with reservations already bookable on their website.

[JW95]

So after 10 years, Lufthansa has returned to LGW today, this time at twice daily with A319s/320s/320-NEOs to FRA :) Welcome back to Gatwick Lufthansa! I wonder what further routes and airlines we may expect to see either launching or resuming LGW this year?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The good news is that the awful "your London airport, Gatwick" branding has finally been binned. The refresh is quite sharp and professional IMHO.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/326x120/capture_3f940e17239ba83d746d35a14427feea218146ca.png

[VickersVicount]

looks like they got their first freeby on LogoGenerator. Odd choice of colours. Not unpleasant however.

[Sotonsean]

The good news is that the awful "your London airport, Gatwick" branding has finally been binned. The refresh is quite sharp and professional IMHO.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/326x120/capture_3f940e17239ba83d746d35a14427feea218146ca.png

That looks much better and as you say professional compared to the previous attempt. Great choice in colours as well in my opinion 👍

I was never a fan of "your London airport, Gatwick".

On a side note.

I have always thought it strange that Wikipedia lists London Heathrow Airport and London Stansted Airport but it's just Gatwick Airport rather than London Gatwick Airport.

[AircraftOperations]

The good news is that the awful "your London airport, Gatwick" branding has finally been binned. The refresh is quite sharp and professional IMHO.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/326x120/capture_3f940e17239ba83d746d35a14427feea218146ca.png

Reminds me a little of the old Granada Televsion logo.

[DaveReidUK]

With a typeface recognisable to older Underground users. :O

[SWBKCB]

That'll get the pax flocking in

[queenvic]

Turkish carrier SunExpress in July 2023 plans to add new service to the UK, where it plans to launch Izmir – London Gatwick route. Inaugural flight is scheduled on 05JUL23, with 737-800 aircraft operating twice weekly.

XQ882 ADB1625 – 1840LGW 73H 6
XQ882 ADB1825 – 2040LGW 73H 3

XQ883 LGW1935 – 0130+1ADB 73H 6
XQ883 LGW2135 – 0330+1ADB 73H 3

[jmdavies86]

I was never a fan of "your London airport, Gatwick".

Likewise, I thought that the "your London airport, Gatwick" was dreadful; this new brand/logo is far better and more professional looking in my opinion.

Reminds me a little of the old Granada Televsion logo.

Is it just me or does the 'G' logo and choice of colours not look a little similar to that of Gloucestershire Airport (GLO):

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/315x76/gloucestershire_airport_logo_692d01fead5ec558ec2b6c99983722a 02879da95.png
Image source: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/87/Gloucestershire_Airport_logo.png

[JW95]

I'm in mixed feelings about the new branding. I do agree that the new corporate logo looks very smart and I like the choice of colours. However, whether this will help to differentiate LGW from other UK airports remains to be seen. As has been mentioned, it does look fairly similar to Gloucestershire Airport's branding strategy.

Does anyone know if the change in branding will also mean a change in airport signage/way finding?

[JW95]

A recent and very interesting interview with Stewart Wingate regarding LGW’s recovery post Covid-19, and future growth at the airport. What is interesting is that he is alluding to additional long haul airline announcements being made at LGW over the coming months, specifically from Chinese airlines. Air China have already reinstated LGW, so I wonder who Gatwick have next in the pipeline to announce their return/a new route from Gatwick?

Link to interview is here:

https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/gatwicks-growth-trajectory-ceo-stewart-wingates-vision-for-expansion/amp

[Sotonsean]

For some reason I have always found that any interview or article relating to LGW is probably a few weeks or even months old when it's published.

This is probably the reason Mr Wingate has eluded to the recent long haul additions at LGW. This seems to be a LGW thing for some reason.

On LinkedIn I've mentioned this a few times on the LGW page but with no response explaining the reason.

I wouldn't be too concerned and TBH I don't take the articles seriously as I know they are not recent enough.

[BA318]

For some reason I have always found that any interview or article relating to LGW is probably a few weeks or even months old when it's published.

This is probably the reason Mr Wingate has eluded to the recent long haul additions at LGW. This seems to be a LGW thing for some reason.

On LinkedIn I've mentioned this a few times on the LGW page but with no response explaining the reason.

I wouldn't be too concerned and TBH I don't take the articles seriously as I know they are not recent enough.

Thats usually the result of an overprotective or slow media team who want to check anything before allowing it to go out and can’t turn it around in a decent timespan.

[willy wombat]

Hope you posters meas “alluded” rather than “eluded”.

[Sotonsean]

Hope you posters meas “alluded” rather than “eluded”.

I usually put more effort into it, but on this occasion a very bad grammatical error.

Although to be fair it's not a word I normally use as I don't tend to have a habit of alluding to anything 🙂

[davidjohnson6]

Apologies if already mentioned, but the Norse website now shows new routes from Gatwick to Barbados, and both Kingston and Montego Bay in Jamaica. All routes start late October 2023

[laviation]

Apologies if already mentioned, but the Norse website now shows new routes from Gatwick to Barbados, and both Kingston and Montego Bay in Jamaica. All routes start late October 2023
I don’t know what they’re trying to do but it certainly won’t work without a package operation like TUI or the good VFR knowledge of BA!

[ATNotts]

I don’t know what they’re trying to do but it certainly won’t work without a package operation like TUI or the good VFR knowledge of BA!
Pretty much as their previous incarnation by the looks of it; lose a lot of (someone else's) money!

[strawberry Ribena]

I don’t know what they’re trying to do but it certainly won’t work without a package operation like TUI or the good VFR knowledge of BA!

i reckon they are jumping in on the fly+ cruise market. Tui (Any cruise liner) will probably buy up a lot of the seats.

[Wycombe]

i reckon they are jumping in on the fly+ cruise market. Tui (Any cruise liner) will probably buy up a lot of the seats.
Could well be, TUI haven't had a great year performance-wise on their big contract to the Carribean for P&O Cruises, for example.

[JW95]

Apologies if already mentioned, but the Norse website now shows new routes from Gatwick to Barbados, and both Kingston and Montego Bay in Jamaica. All routes start late October 2023

Interesting choice of routes, although I can see the sense in them as 'winter sun' destinations which could allow Norse to improve its a/c utilisation and profitability in the winter. Will be interesting to see how BA respond to this. I doubt VS will bat an eyelid since they won't be returning to LGW in the near future.

[intortola]

Apologies if already mentioned, but the Norse website now shows new routes from Gatwick to Barbados, and both Kingston and Montego Bay in Jamaica. All routes start late October 2023


Love for them to get the cruise contract back on the SJU route. Flew it with Norwegian quite a few times and was always full. Very popular with people living and working in the NE Caribbean. Hope it had the yield to make a comeback at some point.

[JW95]

As per Aero Routes, QR will be reducing LGW-DOH service to 10 weekly from 1st December, unsure if this is a temporary reduction from the existing 2 daily service. One nice change however is that the daily 788 is being upgauged to the 789, and LGW will also see the A359 3 times per week :) It'll be nice seeing the A350 back at LGW, I believe QR will be the sole operator of the A350-900 at LGW until MK commence their daily service to MRU in October :)

[Charlie Roy]

6 or 7 aircraft inbound to Gatwick diverting to other airports right now (Sunday 14/5 2pm-3pm). What's going on?

[Stein7b]

Drone activity apparently.

[davidjohnson6]

https://news.sky.com/story/gatwick-airport-force-to-shut-runway-for-almost-an-hour-over-suspected-drone-12880784

[N707ZS]

They didn't find it again.

[Cautious Optimist]

Is it just me or is it only ever Gatwick affected by drones? Don't recall any other airports shutting down for this reason but I stand to be corrected

[GrahamK]

Edinburgh was affected the other night, and Dublin has had a big problem with drones too.

[JW95]

Unsure if this has been flagged up, but China Eastern Airlines will be returning to LGW from later next month to Shanghai with the A330. Booking now live on their website :)

Good to see more airlines resuming services to LGW, hopefully this will continue and more are to come :)

[Sotonsean]

Unsure if this has been flagged up, but China Eastern Airlines will be returning to LGW from later next month to Shanghai with the A330. Booking now live on their website :)

Good to see more airlines resuming services to LGW, hopefully this will continue and more are to come :)

Great to see China Eastern Airlines return to LGW with a resumption of service from Shanghai.

I've seen this flight several times on the LGW arrivals/departures board but shown as cancelled. I have noticed that this often happens when airlines are due to announce new routes.

China Southern Airlines from Wuhan has also appeared recently on the LGW arrivals/departures boards. I wonder if China Southern Airlines will be the next long haul airline to announce service to LGW.

[JW95]

Great to see China Eastern Airlines return to LGW with a resumption of service from Shanghai.

I've seen this flight several times on the LGW arrivals/departures board but shown as cancelled. I have noticed that this often happens when airlines are due to announce new routes.

China Southern Airlines from Wuhan has also appeared recently on the LGW arrivals/departures boards. I wonder if China Southern Airlines will be the next long haul airline to announce service to LGW.

Indeed :) LGW now has a nice mix of airlines that mirror the mix pre-covid up to 2019/early 2020 :) It certainly has come a long way since it was on its knees when all the travel restrictions were in place. Hopefully more are in the pipeline :) IIRC I think China Southern were initially planning on moving the route to Wuhan from LHR to LGW prior the pandemic breaking out? Could certainly see them making an entrance to LGW. Cathay I think will also be looking at resuming LGW either this year or next, as they rebuild their network.

I also predict that Delta will expand presence at Gatwick, depending on JetBlue's expansion at LGW. For instance, I can see them launching BOS to compete with B6 on the route. This was a route that Delta had planned for LGW originally before Covid hit. Sadly, I don't think we will see VS back at LGW for some time, which is a shame.

[Sotonsean]

China Southern Airlines did indeed announced Wuhan to LGW prior to the pandemic. Very much a potential airline for LGW.

Delta as you rightly pointed out planned to operate BOS to LGW prior to to the pandemic. I agree with your assumption regarding the reasons why they might eventually fly that route.

I also agree with your comments and the reasons regarding the return of CX to LGW

On another note.

​​​​​​Air Asia X have gone completely silent on their proposed return to LGW with their planned KUL-DXB-LGW routing. I was very skeptical from the very beginning when it was originally stated that the airline was planning to make a possible return to LGW. Although it would make a great addition to the ever growing long haul portfolio at LGW I still remain very skeptical of the return of Air Asia X.

On another note.

The newly formed Ghanaian flag carrier Ghana Airways are to receive the first out of of three B789s on order from Boeing in the Q3 of 2023. The airline has stated that they intend on initially using their B789s on opening up long haul routes from the Ghanaian capital of Accra to London LHR and New York JFK. If the airline are not able to obtain slots at LHR I'm certain that Ghana Airways could well be another potential future long haul airline at LGW.

During 2022 the Tanzanian flag carrier Air Tanzania announced that they were intending to resume flights from DAR to LGW again once that the airline can obtain slots. Air Tanzania had obtained slots for LGW in 2019 for a resumption of their Dar Es Salaam flights which were supposed to commence in 2020. Obviously the pandemic changed those plans and those slots at LGW were lost after three years and the airline has recently had to reapply for new ones.

Air Tanzania are due to receive their third B788 added to the fleet soon giving them a total of three. Air Tanzania have also just recently received a new build B767F direct from Boeing with cargo expansion on the airline's radar. Air Tanzania could well be another potential future long haul airline at LGW.

Air Tanzania would be a very welcome return to LGW. On a personal note I can remember being on the viewing terrace at LGW in July 1980 when the first ever Air Tanzania Boeing 707 landed on it's inaugural flight from Dar Es Salaam. The livery looked great on the B707 along with their leased Ethiopian B767s. Their current livery looks great on their B788s and hopefully we will eventually see them at LGW.

[JW95]

China Southern Airlines did indeed announced Wuhan to LGW prior to the pandemic. Very much a potential airline for LGW.

Delta as you rightly pointed out planned to operate BOS to LGW prior to to the pandemic. I agree with your assumption regarding the reasons why they might eventually fly that route.

I also agree with your comments and the reasons regarding the return of CX to LGW

On another note.

​​​​​​Air Asia X have gone completely silent on their proposed return to LGW with their planned KUL-DXB-LGW routing. I was very skeptical from the very beginning when it was originally stated that the airline was planning to make a possible return to LGW. Although it would make a great addition to the ever growing long haul portfolio at LGW I still remain very skeptical of the return of Air Asia X.

On another note.

The newly formed Ghanaian flag carrier Ghana Airways are to receive the first out of of three B789s on order from Boeing in the Q3 of 2023. The airline has stated that they intend on initially using their B789s on opening up long haul routes from the Ghanaian capital of Accra to London LHR and New York JFK. If the airline are not able to obtain slots at LHR I'm certain that Ghana Airways could well be another potential future long haul airline at LGW.

During 2022 the Tanzanian flag carrier Air Tanzania announced that they were intending to resume flights from DAR to LGW again once that the airline can obtain slots. Air Tanzania had obtained slots for LGW in 2019 for a resumption of their Dar Es Salaam flights which were supposed to commence in 2020. Obviously the pandemic changed those plans and those slots at LGW were lost after three years and the airline has recently had to reapply for new ones.

Air Tanzania are due to receive their third B788 added to the fleet soon giving them a total of three. Air Tanzania have also just recently received a new build B767F direct from Boeing with cargo expansion on the airline's radar. Air Tanzania could well be another potential future long haul airline at LGW.

Air Tanzania would be a very welcome return to LGW. On a personal note I can remember being on the viewing terrace at LGW in July 1980 when the first ever Air Tanzania Boeing 707 landed on it's inaugural flight from Dar Es Salaam. The livery looked great on the B707 along with their leased Ethiopian B767s. Their current livery looks great on their B788s and hopefully we will eventually see them at LGW.

RE. Air Asia, I agree with you- I don't see them returning to LGW, or the London market anymore. Passengers now have a greater choice of full service carriers when travelling long haul to Asia, and I don't think a marginally cheaper fare is likely to get customers to switch to Air Asia, especially when you consider that extras such as luggage, meals, entertainment etc have to be paid for on Air Asia. From a passenger point of view, these are important factors when considering long haul flying. Scoot have also tried something similar flying LGW-SIN via BKK with their 788s and that didn't last long, just 8 months I believe? So low cost, long haul flying to Asia is a tough nut to crack, and like Scoot, I think Air Asia would struggle making this work.

The others you highlight (Air Tanzania, Ghana Airways) I can see entering LGW at some stage, dependent on LHR slot (un)availability and pricing.

[True Blue]

So Gatwick has another new route starting end of October, BA to Accra 3 weekly. It is available for booking now.

[vectisman]

So Gatwick has another new route starting end of October, BA to Accra 3 weekly. It is available for booking now.

This in addition to daily flights from Heathrow.

[JW95]

So Gatwick has another new route starting end of October, BA to Accra 3 weekly. It is available for booking now.
Interesting new addition to Gatwick :) I wonder if this is to deter Ghana Airways from coming in?

[Sotonsean]

Interesting new addition to Gatwick :) I wonder if this is to deter Ghana Airways from coming in?

Although it's a great addition to LGW I don't see British Airways flying to Accra deterring Ghana Airways from establishing their own flights.

Ghana Airways has three B789s on order and they have maintained from the very start that they eventually intend flying them from Accra to London and New York.

Before the pandemic British Airways had previously announced that they intended to move service to Accra from LHR to LGW. I believe that this decision was overturned because of uproar from the Government of Ghana who demanded a link to LHR.

Regarding that last sentence. It makes me wonder if Ghana Airways will actually be able to obtain slots at LHR. If they can't they will obviously have to use LGW. The Government of Ghana has changed since they made a fuss about British Airways intending to transfer their Accra flight to LGW.

With British Airways announcing service from LGW to ACC running alongside their existing LHR flights I don't think it will deter Ghana Airways from eventually resuming their own service to London, whether that be to LGW or LHR.

[VickersVicount]

Ho Chi Minh didn’t last long.. #Bamboo

[Sotonsean]

Ho Chi Minh didn’t last long.. #Bamboo


This hasn't really come across as a surprise to me personally. As much as I wouldn't want the airline to leave LGW altogether, I wouldn't hedge my bets on Bamboo Airways even flying to Europe in the future.

​​​Hanoi being the capital city of Vietnam was always going to be more popular than Ho Chi Minh City. With Bamboo airways in a precarious way financially and the fact that the airline has a very small fleet of B789s perhaps the aircraft used to fly to LGW would be better placed elsewhere on their network.

[Downwind_Left]

This hasn't really come across as a surprise to me personally. As much as I wouldn't want the airline to leave LGW altogether, I wouldn't hedge my bets on Bamboo Airways even flying to Europe in the future.

​​​Hanoi being the capital city of Vietnam was always going to be more popular than Ho Chi Minh City. With Bamboo airways in a precarious way financially and the fact that the airline has a very small fleet of B789s perhaps the aircraft used to fly to LGW would be better placed elsewhere on their network.

That isn’t what’s happening though… Bamboo are dropping Ho Chi Minh City, but increasing Hanoi to twice weekly. So their frequency and capacity at Gatwick is unchanged. Probably more viable to serve Hanoi twice weekly than both destinations with a single frequency.

[AirportPlanner1]

​​​Hanoi being the capital city of Vietnam was always going to be more popular than Ho Chi Minh City.

Really? Isn’t that like saying Madrid is always going to be more popular than Barcelona?!

Probably the reason is more likely that because HCMC is much better served the yields are lower, a weekly flight is always going to be a struggle against EK, QR, TK etc.

[JW95]

Given that they've only got 3 789s in the fleet currently (albeit with another 10 on order), it probably makes more commercial sense to raise LGW-HAN frequency to twice weekly from the current 1 weekly flight whilst unfortunately having to drop the SGN route (although hopefully it may return as more 787s are delivered). What I think is more likely is that Bamboo Airways will struggle against Vietnam Airlines who will be increasing LHR-HAN to daily from October versus just a twice weekly LGW-HAN flight.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Given that they've only got 3 789s in the fleet currently (albeit with another 10 on order), it probably makes more commercial sense to raise LGW-HAN frequency to twice weekly from the current 1 weekly flight whilst unfortunately having to drop the SGN route (although hopefully it may return as more 787s are delivered). What I think is more likely is that Bamboo Airways will struggle against Vietnam Airlines who will be increasing LHR-HAN to daily from October versus just a twice weekly LGW-HAN flight.
Bamboo are in a financially precarious place, one of their B787s was impounded for a time for non payment of fees. If you want to go direct, Vietnam Airlines has a much higher frequency having worked some magic to hang onto their position at LHR. The idea that they're going to end up with 10 B787s as things stand looks unlikely sadly. I think they're under-capitalised at the mo.

[JW95]

Being reported on Airliners.net and elsewhere that a new start up, called Global Airlines has just purchased their first aircraft, an A380, for use on London-US routes commencing in spring next year. According to their website (https://www.globalairlines.com/about), they plan on acquiring 3 more A380s, if not more. Presumably if (and a big if) and when this ever takes off, LGW would be their choice of London airport?

I can't help but think that this venture does remind me a little of what European Aviation Air Charter (EAAC) tried doing by buying ex-BA 742s in 2002 and going long haul to the US and Canada (besides additional charter work), but that didn't last long and they ended up losing £££££. I never flew with them, but I think they did long haul from LGW as well as from BOH (their main base) and MAN?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Air China's PEK-LGW service seems to have returned to LHR now that BA have relaunched service on LHR-PKX.
Replaced by Air China opening PVG-LGW as PVG-LHR ends? Seems odd with both BA and VS operating out of LHR for Air China to move PVG to Gatwick?

[Vokes55]

Do you think a Chinese state owned airline are that bothered about the competition? They already have the competitive edge over BA and VS as their flights are two hours shorter in each direction.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Do you think a Chinese state owned airline are that bothered about the competition? They already have the competitive edge over BA and VS as their flights are two hours shorter in each direction.
They had to return to Gatwick due to the complexity of the bilateral as BA were off the route. And yes, they do have a preference to serve LHR, I am just trying to understand the current situation.They didn't originally leave LGW and build up 5 daily LHR slots by accident now did they?

[Vokes55]

I don’t know. Shanghai was served from LGW until March 2020, so this is more or less back to how they operated before Covid, minus Chengdu from LHR.

What I do know though is that, bilateral agreements aside, Air China couldn’t give a hoot about the competition.

[AvGeek1]

According to the slot report, the below airlines have applied for slots for W23:

Azerbaijan Airlines (from Baku)
Ethiopian Airlines (from Addis Ababa)
ITA Airways (from Rome or Milan?)
PLAY (from Reykjavik)
TAAG Angola Airlines (from Luanda)
Volotea (has several bases in France, Spain & Italy)

Credits to @SeanM1997 for this info.

[Sotonsean]

According to the slot report, the below airlines have applied for slots for W23:

Azerbaijan Airlines (from Baku)
Ethiopian Airlines (from Addis Ababa)
ITA Airways (from Rome or Milan?)
PLAY (from Reykjavik)
TAAG Angola Airlines (from Luanda)
Volotea (has several bases in France, Spain & Italy)

Credits to @SeanM1997 for this info.

Azerbaijan Airlines and Ethiopian Airlines would be welcome additions, but obviously it would be a resumption of service to LGW for both carriers.

​​​​​​I was only thinking the other day whether TAAG Angola Airlines could be a possible candidate at LGW for a service from Angola. When British Airways stopped flying from LHR to Luanda a few years ago I half expected TAAG to announce service to Luanda. Hopefully this service comes to fruition as it will add London to the airline's route network in Europe along with their existing routes to Lisbon, Madrid and Porto. TAAG Angola Airlines are in expansion mode and are considering ordering new long haul aircraft to accommodate this. I can also forsee TAAG Angola Airlines being a possible future candidate for joining the Oneworld alliance.

Regarding Volotea, will be interesting to what routes they have in mind without having to compete with existing operators at LGW.

Hopefully the Play application is not intended to replace their current STN operation.

ITA Airways expanding their London operations, or are they still having issues with their current leased slots at LHR?

[davidjohnson6]

Danair's new routes to/from Brasov and Bucharest is not off to a good start. Flights between different destinations are being combined and departure times being changed by 10+ hours at very little notice. It sounds like ticket sales are low, and Brasov airport/ATC isn't ready for what Danair were planning.

[danielson81]

Danair's new routes to/from Brasov and Bucharest is not off to a good start. Flights between different destinations are being combined and departure times being changed by 10+ hours at very little notice. It sounds like ticket sales are low, and Brasov airport/ATC isn't ready for what Danair were planning.
That's a shame, I note Gatwick departures/arrivals labels it as "Bucharest VIA Brasov-Ghimbav"

[davidjohnson6]

Dan Air have published a revised schedule, including their routes between Gatwick and Brasov / Bucharest
https://danair.ro/press-release
Flights will operate Bucharest - Brasov - Gatwick - Brasov - Bucharest 1x per week on Fridays. There will be no other flights to/from the UK.

Ryanair fly Bucharest - Stansted nonstop 24x weekly
Wizzair fly Bucharest - Luton nonstop 26x weekly and Bucharest - Gatwick nonstop 7x weekly
British Airways fly Bucharest - Heathrow nonstop 14x weekly
Tarom fly Bucharest - Heathrow nonstop 7x weekly
Wizzair will fly Brasov - Luton nonstop 3x weekly from August.

I'm left wondering how Dan Air will compete against Ryanair and Wizzair

[Rutan16]

Azerbaijan Airlines and Ethiopian Airlines would be welcome additions, but obviously it would be a resumption of service to LGW for both carriers.

​​​​​​I was only thinking the other day whether TAAG Angola Airlines could be a possible candidate at LGW for a service from Angola. When British Airways stopped flying from LHR to Luanda a few years ago I half expected TAAG to announce service to Luanda. Hopefully this service comes to fruition as it will add London to the airline's route network in Europe along with their existing routes to Lisbon, Madrid and Porto. TAAG Angola Airlines are in expansion mode and are considering ordering new long haul aircraft to accommodate this. I can also forsee TAAG Angola Airlines being a possible future candidate for joining the Oneworld alliance.

Regarding Volotea, will be interesting to what routes they have in mind without having to compete with existing operators at LGW.

Hopefully the Play application is not intended to replace their current STN operation.

ITA Airways expanding their London operations, or are they still having issues with their current leased slots at LHR?

TAAG are subject to EU operational restrictions banning use of D2 registered aircraft and their twice daily Lisbon regular Madrid and seasonal Oporto flights are flown by HiFly .They have been seeking to add Paris for some time however so far been declined.

To-date the CAA has continued to mirror the EU aviation exclusion and restricted operating lists, so i think TAAG will have a difficult time securing government approval anytime soon.

VOLOTEA may want add my part time home town of Nantes possibly Lyon, and Toulouse - Their biggest competitor tends to Vueling.

Play apply for slots all over the place only to hand them back - They aren’t in great financial shape to be honest.

Opinion only ITA may need to speak nicely with LH Group about some slots at Heathrow or abandon the market and rely on City (As per Luxair)

[c52]

Nothing on Gatwick's website about northern runway ambitions since summer last year. When can we expect the next bit of news?

[DaveReidUK]

Nothing on Gatwick's website about northern runway ambitions since summer last year. When can we expect the next bit of news?

There was a feature, with interview, on BBC South news yesterday.

BBC iPlayer - South Today - Evening News: 20/06/2023 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001n457/south-today-evening-news-20062023)

[Sotonsean]

Nothing on Gatwick's website about northern runway ambitions since summer last year. When can we expect the next bit of news?

Never rely on company websites for updates especially regular updates. In my opinion they are the worst places to visit for such things.

The London Gatwick Airport official website has a tendency to always be behind other sources of information. In some cases especially regarding airport development it's not listing anything at all.

I've been asking on LinkedIn for ages when the Pier 6 extension will eventually start construction with still no direct answer. In my opinion Social media sites such as LinkedIn are your best bet to keep upto date with the planned developments rather than the official website.

A simple Google search will be of great help as you tend to come across so much information that you would otherwise be non aware of.

[InSeat19c]

QUOTE=Yeehaw22;11100134]InSeat19c

​​​​​​Have you thought you might live in the wrong place?
​​​[/QUOTE]

No, I don't think so.

I love planes, I just appreciated the quiet at the time.

And be on the wrong forum?

Not really. Surely all views are welcome?

Quieter skies meant heavy job losses, a costly price to pay.

Indeed so and three years on, that price is still being paid.

[Paulesx]

Not sure what's happening with Bamboo flights, when looking at the bamboo website and then the GDS seems the flights are pricing properly up until 24 September, after which time the GDS shows blocked inventory on all classes, could they be closing the route?

[Sotonsean]

Not sure what's happening with Bamboo flights, when looking at the bamboo website and then the GDS seems the flights are pricing properly up until 24 September, after which time the GDS shows blocked inventory on all classes, could they be closing the route?

Interesting, nothing has been mentioned elsewhere in the aviation and travel media regarding the future of Bamboo Airways Hanoi to London Gatwick route.

Bamboo Airways has been in a precarious situation over the last few months. A complete change of management has happened over the last few weeks and new investors appeared last week with the intent on lending the troubled airline $340mn.

Perhaps the new management team don't see a future with Bamboo Airways flying long haul to Europe. Although I would much prefer to see Bamboo Airways remain at London Gatwick I would not be surprised at all if they ceased flying to the airport altogether.

[JW95]

Not sure what's happening with Bamboo flights, when looking at the bamboo website and then the GDS seems the flights are pricing properly up until 24 September, after which time the GDS shows blocked inventory on all classes, could they be closing the route?

Unless Bamboo are still finalising schedules etc? This does sometimes happen (higher than normal prices) prior to prices stabilising. Like others have mentioned, there hasn't been any definitive announcement or anything to confirming the possible cessation of LGW.

On the other hand though, they haven't been doing too great financially, and are up against Vietnam Airlines from LHR, who operate at a much higher frequency compared to the 2-weekly Bamboo LGW-HAN operation, so it wouldn't surprise me entirely if they did decide on cutting London completely. That said, it would be a shame for LGW to lose Bamboo :( Hopefully they do remain here and that LGW can continue to grow its long haul network to Asia.

[Paulesx]

Rumour has it they will be increasing Frankfurt frequency and sacrificing the aircraft used to operate london for this Frankfurt increase, as they are very limited on 787 numbers , anyway time will tell

[davidjohnson6]

Dan Air to cut their 1x weekly Gatwick - Bucharest route. Gatwick-Brasov will continue
https://boardingpass.ro/dan-air-suspenda-temporar-majoritatea-rutelor-de-la-bucuresti/

[davidjohnson6]

Please can we stop pretending the 2nd runway is just there for emergencies. Please. We promise to be good and always say please and thank you.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-66121167

[Asturias56]

you mean actually believe the promises given when it was built?

[LTNman]

As part of the planning submission Gatwick said it had made some "legally binding commitments, to ensure it controls noise levels and reduces carbon emissions under the airport's direct control".

Meaning they will have no impact as aircraft pollution is excluded. This is another company that is in denial or just doesn’t care.

Don’t worry, while we will all be forced to drive electric cars and have to get rid of our gas boilers Gatwick is planning to increase its aircraft emissions.

[ATNotts]

Meaning they will have no impact as aircraft pollution is excluded. This is another company that is in denial or just doesn’t care.

Don’t worry, while we will all be forced to drive electric cars and have to get rid of our gas boilers Gatwick is planning to increase its aircraft emissions.
More corporate greenwash.

[LTNman]

The other issue is the “legally binding commitments, to ensure it controls noise levels”. So what does that actually mean when the plan to increase aircraft movements to handle 75m, apart from increasing exiting noise limits first, to ensure that in the future they are high enough that they can’t be broken.

[c52]

I have no wish to read the 30,000 page planning submission (or was it 300,000?) but does anyone know off the top of their head how many additional movements per hour will be possible; whether those extra movements are still ok in high winds or fog, and most important to me as a passenger, whether there is any commitment to reducing holding before landing or take-off?

Wouldn't it be nice if Gatwick became an airport where there is no congestion to cause delays? Unlikely, I'm sure. Getting an summer evening flight to Gatwick usually seems to involve an announcement from the captain explaining that the plane was on time on its first flight of the day, then added minutes of delay on each flight until it is an hour or more late on its final flight of the day.

[davidjohnson6]

Potential new route to Bolzano with SkyAlps - start date unknown
https://italiavola.com/2023/07/08/skyalps-colleghera-bolzano-con-londra-laeroporto-e-gatwick/

[LGWAlan]

Wasn't this previously advertised? Did it ever run?

[Sotonsean]

Wasn't this previously advertised? Did it ever run?

It was indeed previously advertised but it never materialised. I have my doubts regarding this recent announcement. I'm surprised that they are still considering LGW rather than the likes of SEN or STN.

[RHagrid]

TAAG are subject to EU operational restrictions banning use of D2 registered aircraft and their twice daily Lisbon regular Madrid and seasonal Oporto flights are flown by HiFly .They have been seeking to add Paris for some time however so far been declined.

To-date the CAA has continued to mirror the EU aviation exclusion and restricted operating lists, so i think TAAG will have a difficult time securing government approval anytime soon.

VOLOTEA may want add my part time home town of Nantes possibly Lyon, and Toulouse - Their biggest competitor tends to Vueling.

Play apply for slots all over the place only to hand them back - They aren’t in great financial shape to be honest.

Opinion only ITA may need to speak nicely with LH Group about some slots at Heathrow or abandon the market and rely on City (As per Luxair)

TAAG have been operating D2- registered B773's into Madrid/Barajas for many months now. Perhaps you check your sources?

[davidjohnson6]

Many Angolan airlines are banned from the EU... but TAAG seems to have been granted an exception.
https://transport.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2023-06/air-safety-list-2023-06-07_en.pdf

[Asturias56]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines

ban on TAAG has been gradually lifted since 2009

[AirportPlanner1]

Many Angolan airlines are banned from the EU...

I thought Brexit meant having the freedom and sovereignty to let un-maintained deathtraps fly here free of interference from unelected bureaucrats in Brussels?

[Apron Artist]

Runway closed at 19:55. Aircraft diverting to alternates.

Apparently an Emirates has "lost" nosewheel steering.

[SWBKCB]

Emirates off the runway and departures restarting at 20-25

[ericlday]

Runway closed at 19:55. Aircraft diverting to alternates.

Apparently an Emirates has "lost" nose wheel steering.
Runway now Open.......

[Apron Artist]

Runway now Open.......
Thankfully, yes. But the damage is already done. It's the price you pay for an overloaded single runway operation. My poor former colleagues will have an interesting night...

[Sotonsean]

I thought Brexit meant having the freedom and sovereignty to let un-maintained deathtraps fly here free of interference from unelected bureaucrats in Brussels?

Well that's a totally naive statement. 🤔

Those aircraft you are referring to in most cases will still have to fly in EU airspace on route to the UK. If an airline or aircraft are banned by the EU then overflights in EU airspace is prohibited. In most if not all cases that scenario would affect those aircraft entering UK air space.

Those unelected bureaucratics in Brussels are majority made up of "elected" Euro Members of Parliament.

Someone obviously is a brexiter. I myself am one too but I don't make outlandish and naive statements regarding the subject.

[Rutan16]

Well that's a totally naive statement. 🤔

Those aircraft you are referring to in most cases will still have to fly in EU airspace on route to the UK. If an airline or aircraft are banned by the EU then overflights in EU airspace is prohibited. In most if not all cases that scenario would affect those aircraft entering UK air space.

Those unelected bureaucratics in Brussels are majority made up of "elected" Euro Members of Parliament.

Someone obviously is a brexiter. I myself am one too but I don't make outlandish and naive statements regarding the subject.


TAAG have only just *since 6th June infact been allowed to operate with designated own aircraft into Europe (Lisbon Madrid and Porto) through continue to use a European 330 on most flights

The formation of the so called banned list and regulation was modified from that date as follows

Commission Implementing Regulation (EU) 2023/1111 of 6 June 2023 amending Regulation (EC) No 474/2006 as regards the list of air carriers banned from operating or subject to operational restrictions within the Union (Text with EEA relevance)

All air carriers certified by the authorities with responsibility for regulatory oversight of Angola, with the exception of TAAG Angola Airlines and Heli Malongo,

This is news to me so an extension « maybe » on the cards however i know Paris has been muted rather than London (from someone i know in Carnaxide that works with them on import/export )

[SWBKCB]

According to FR24, TAAG B.77W's have been operating into Madrid and Lisbon for the last twelve months at least.

Examples here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/danraistrick/52125236845/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/airspottermadrid/52257734153/

[Asturias56]

No they've been able to fly in for years - its just the latest update to the banned list on 6th June - changed nothing

From Wiki

It was announced in May 2009 that TAAG had passed IATA inspections.[78] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-TAAG_passes_IATA's_test-78)

In July 2009, TAAG received permission to operate flights to Europe under restricted conditions, as it was allowed to fly only into Portugal and using only its three Boeing 777s.[51] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-IP-09-1136-51)[79] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-EU_'blacklist'_updated;_Yemenia_not_included,_four_Indonesia n_airlines_removed-79)[80] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-EU_lifts_Indonesian_airline_ban-80) This partial lift of the ban made TAAG the only Angolan airline that was permitted to operate into the EU.[51] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-IP-09-1136-51) After nearly two years of being banned from EU airspace, TAAG deployed its own aircraft on the European corridor immediately.[81] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-Avi%C3%B5es_da_TAAG_voltam_a_Lisboa_dois_anos_depois-81) TAAG then returned the Boeing 747-400 to South African Airways.[[i]when? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers#Chronological_items)]

In November 2009, the European Commission (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission) extended the permission to TAAG's four Boeing 737-700s.[52] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-EU_ban_2009-11-26-52)[82] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-Yemenia_and_EgyptAir_avoid_EU_blacklist_as_blanket_ban_widen s-82)[83] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-Other_News_-_12/01/2009-83) Also in November 2009, TAAG restarted services to Havana; many Cuban doctors and teachers reside in Angola and the flight exists to help transport them.[84] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-Angola's_TAAG_opens_flights_to_Havana,_Cape_Town-84) In late March 2010, restrictions over TAAG operations were relaxed again following the announcement the airline could fly its Boeing 777-200ERs and 737-700s to all European airports.[53] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-IP-10-388-53)[85] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-New_EU_blacklist_features_Iran_Air,_Philippine_carriers-85)

In December 2010, two engine incidents involving TAAG's Boeing 777-200ERs forced the carrier to ground the three aircraft of the type.[86] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-TAAG_Angola_Airlines_grounds_777-200_fleet_after_engine_incidents-86)[87] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-TAAG_works_to_resolve_GE90_issues_on_777s-87)

In April 2012, the ban was partially lifted, but some aircraft were still prevented to fly the European Air Space.[88] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-88)

An updated version of the list of airlines banned in the EU (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airlines_banned_in_the_EU) released in early December 2012 still included part of TAAG's fleet; however, five Boeing 777s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777) and four Boeing 737-700s were allowed to operate into the EU;[89] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-89) there were little or no changes in the list regarding the aircraft the airline was allowed to fly into the EU, following the release of the 11 latest versions of the list in July 2013,[59] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-IP-13-662-59) December 2013,[60] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-IP-13-1201-60) April 2014,[61] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-IP-14-415-61) December 2014,[62] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-IP-14-2580-62) June 2015,[63] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-IP-15-5249-63) December 2015,[64] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-IP-15-6284-64) June 2016,[65] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-IP-16-2176-65) December 2016,[66] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-IP-16-4265-66) May 2017,[67] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-IP-17-1277-67) November 2017,[68] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-IP-17-4971-68) and June 2018.[69] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-IP-18-4131-69)

On 17 April 2019, the ban was completely lifted, allowing TAAG to fly all of its aircraft to any EU country.[90] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-ch-aviation2-90)[70] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAAG_Angola_Airlines#cite_note-EU_ban_lifted-70)

[Dannyboy39]

Going back to more relevant points, I’m glad this northern runway solution has found more traction.

Admittedly I live in North London and there are other easier airports within a shorter commute with equal / better / increased connectivity but I’ve really come to avoid LGW as an airport especially in the summer season. And even as I like the management and their attempts at investing and improving the airport as a destination to travel from.

easyJet’s scheduling really isn’t reliable. Clearly their aim is for a short turnaround time and high utilisation, but outside of the first wave of departures, a typical summer’s day is an absolute mess. A few years ago I was commuting weekly down to France for a 3 month period and forced to use LGW due to timings… it was a nightmare. Every Friday evening flights were often significantly delayed. I’d argue for an airline such as EZY (but not to exclusively single them out) you need to allow minimum 50 mins turnaround due to the inevitable delays and knock on effect of having such a constrained airport.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Why do we think it's the airport? Ryanair have a somewhat larger operation similarly dominating single runway Stansted which whilst far from perfect, doesn't have the delays of Gatters. LGW's pain points are similar to STN and MAN, literally a stupid amount of based aeroplane trying to get out in the first wave to fly a 4-6 sector day then huge periods of relatively empty aprons. easyJet have planned no contingency, an old fashioned term once baked into the higher ticket price. The odd hot spare pressed into service to recover the operation doesn't happen so much anymore. What does Ryanair do differently / better here?

They both effectively have a dedicated handling operation albeit third party in Blue Handling and DHL (it's still DHL right?).

[Apron Artist]

Why do we think it's the airport? Ryanair have a somewhat larger operation similarly dominating single runway Stansted which whilst far from perfect, doesn't have the delays of Gatters. LGW's pain points are similar to STN and MAN, literally a stupid amount of based aeroplane trying to get out in the first wave to fly a 4-6 sector day then huge periods of relatively empty aprons. easyJet have planned no contingency, an old fashioned term once baked into the higher ticket price. The odd hot spare pressed into service to recover the operation doesn't happen so much anymore. What does Ryanair do differently / better here?

They both effectively have a dedicated handling operation albeit third party in Blue Handling and DHL (it's still DHL right?).

Yes it's still DHL at LGW, I had the "pleasure" of working for them until earlier this year. The plan this year is for 82 based easyJet aircraft and I think they're pretty close to that number now. It was 74 when I left. On most days there are 3 hot spares and these get pressed into service nearly every day thanks to tech issues on other frames. With so many aircraft landing so much later than scheduled, the easyJet engineers on site have limited time for their nightly checks and inevitably stuff gets deferred. Trying to get 80+ out aircraft between 0500 and 0830 (1st wave) is a big ask and it wasn't unusual to see 15-20 aircraft queueing for up to an hour between 0730 & 0830.

The problems are not limited to easyJet/DHL - all the ground handlers (apart from Dnata) are suffering the same problems; too few fully tained, experienced staff (many lost during the Covid lockdowns) unreliable GSE, disillusioned staff and the massive turnover of staff. It's a merry-go-round, The ground handlers leave one company, put on a different hi-viz and then go and do exactly the same job they were doing. As soon as one company is offering even as little as 50p/hr more, lots jump ship. There's no stability.

[willy wombat]

Well I think the airport is at least partly to blame simply because, for whatever reason, ACL, when coordinating it, has allowed too many movements during certain hours. I remember when Gatwick was coordinated to max 36 movements per hour and it slowly crept up to the point where 40 movements was being permitted for a couple of hours. I don’t know the figures now (but I’m sure someone will tell me) but it’s certainly more than that. Add to this a fair degree of unrealistic scheduling from EZY and you get the current problems.
Dannyboy39 - if you want to improve punctuality you are better to pad the block time rather than the turnaround. It’s no good if you have a nice, leisurely turnround, push on time and then sit at the end of the runway for 40 minutes. Much better to go for a reasonably quick turnround and then allow for the runway delays in the scheduled block time. As may be obvious, I was involved in scheduling flights from/to LGW for a fair bit of my career.

[vectisman]

Perhaps a naive suggestion from myself, but perhaps easyjet should consider replacing even more A319s at Gatwick with more A320/A321 aircraft.
They could then reduce frequencies on some key routes. Another issue is that only 2 of those 82 aircraft night stop elsewhere which adds to pressure on apron space and very early morning departures.
BA and Wizzair now only use A320 or A321 from the airport.
This summer as last Easyjet are having to use the south terminal for up to 30 departures a day. I can't see anymore expansion from them in terms of movements and based aircraft being sustainable.
Furthermore, I am not sure how many BA slots they are still using under lease this summer if any, but if so these will be gradually need to be returned as BA expands flights with Euroflyer. Last summer it was about 16 slot pairs per day and last winter
about 6 slot pairs a day. I read articles earlier this year that BA is definitely planning on having them back. I know that EasyJet took a large of slots from Norwegian after their withdrawal of long haul and European routes from Gatwick apart from their Scandinavian operations.
Over the next few years the plan is for BA Euroflyer to have up to 30 aircraft based as was the case for BA short haul pre-pandemic. BA have indicated they will be taking slots back from both Vueling and EasyJet for their own expansion plans, both mainline and otherwise.
Easyjet has quite a bit to think about in terms of their Gatwick operation.
Gatwick itself is in a difficult position regarding demands from airlines after it suffered so badly during the pandemic. Fortunately the recovery has been strong for them and it has returned to profit. Also credit to them for pushing ahead with Northern Runway plans and other
improvements.
Looking at FR24 the number of departures per day in the coming week are averaging 440 which is near or at 2019 levels. I think in 2018 and 2019 peak summer departures may have been 450 or so max.

[vectisman]

It will interesting to see what the lot situation looks like for Summer 2024 at Gatwick when ACL publish their co-ordination reports later this year. The winter report
is already out but owing to the seasonality of some Gatwick services operations during the winter are lesson demanding. For example I think the number of daily departures drops on average from
about 430 plus to 300.

[pamann]

It will interesting to see what the lot situation looks like for Summer 2024 at Gatwick when ACL publish their co-ordination reports later this year. The winter report
is already out but owing to the seasonality of some Gatwick services operations during the winter are lesson demanding. For example i think the number of daily departures drops on average from
about 430 plus to 300.

Too many eggs in one south-east basket for EZY?

If only they hadn’t closed their bases at STN/SEN.

[FRatSTN]

Too many eggs in one south-east basket for EZY?

If only they hadn’t closed their bases at STN/SEN.

Absolutely. They closed those bases in order to consolidate their Gatwick position and what have they ended up with? A return to split terminal operations and a network riddled with staff shortfalls, major disruption and in the end mass cancellations.

Closing the SEN and NCL bases during the pandemic was perhaps understandable, they can realistically return to either of those airports with based frames when the time is right. The STN closure is the costly mistake as will be very difficult to return in the short-medium term. People argue the Ryanair dominance there saw them off over the years, but having now decided to venture into the package holiday market, they've allowed perhaps their biggest emerging competitor in the form of Jet2 to solidify it's position at STN, and they have the resources to deal with it!

[vectisman]

I can see further expansion at Southend in the medium term. I am not so sure about Stansted.

[davidjohnson6]

Was Easyjet's base at STN not just profitable, but did it also give a reasonably good return on the capital (ie including the value of aircraft) invested in STN ? It's easy to say "should have" but did the finance numbers show STN to be worthwhile ?

[SouthernAlliance]

I can see further expansion at Southend in the medium term. I am not so sure about Stansted.

Add to that SOU for additional south east capacity

[SWBKCB]

Maybe they need to focus on sorting out their current problems

[EI-BUD]

Absolutely. They closed those bases in order to consolidate their Gatwick position and what have they ended up with? A return to split terminal operations and a network riddled with staff shortfalls, major disruption and in the end mass cancellations.

Closing the SEN and NCL bases during the pandemic was perhaps understandable, they can realistically return to either of those airports with based frames when the time is right. The STN closure is the costly mistake as will be very difficult to return in the short-medium term. People argue the Ryanair dominance there saw them off over the years, but having now decided to venture into the package holiday market, they've allowed perhaps their biggest emerging competitor in the form of Jet2 to solidify it's position at STN, and they have the resources to deal with it!

A return to STN by easyJet as it was would amount to nothing short of commercial suicide. Competing routes to EDI/BFS/GLA are hugely contested as an example. Let's see how that fairs out . . The wise thing for easyJet would be to continue to grow their business at airports not very accessible to new entrants or by lower cost rivals eg LGW, CDG, ORY, LIS etc. That's where the margins are for easyJet

[Apron Artist]

Not looking good again and it's only Thursday.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x2000/screenshot_20230713_163323_airport_community_4b08bf522271df2 4654df680920dbcc102217e64.jpg



[JW95]

LGW has had a good year so far in attracting new airlines to the airport (e.g. Air Mauritius; Saudia; Air India) in addition to some pre-Covid resumptions (e.g. Air China; China Eastern). Can we expect to see any more launch LGW this year and going into 2024?

[Sotonsean]

LGW has had a good year so far in attracting new airlines to the airport (e.g. Air Mauritius; Saudia; Air India) in addition to some pre-Covid resumptions (e.g. Air China; China Eastern). Can we expect to see any more launch LGW this year and going into 2024?

Air Tanzania are due to receive their third Boeing 788 in February 2024. Air Tanzania have previously stated that they intend on resuming London Gatwick once they receive their third airframe.

Air Tanzania previously held slots at London Gatwick prior to the covid pandemic. The airline had reportedly lost those slots and were hopeful in obtaining new ones for 2024.

Air Tanzania have been quoted in several travel and aviation media platforms over the last few months in regards to a resumption of a London service. If all goes to plan then hopefully Air Tanzania will soon announce the resumption of service between Dar Es Salaam and London Gatwick.

So on that regards I think we can assume that Air Tanzania could well be a possible contender for long haul at LGW.

Air Zimbabwe could well be another airline. The Zimbabwe authorities have recently stated that one of their priorities is to resume a link between Harare and London Gatwick.

Air Senegal announced a Dakar to London Stansted service prior to the covid pandemic. This service never materialised for obvious reasons. Air Senegal have just this week changed an order for two A220s to two A321Ns. Air Senegal have also stated that they intend on opening new routes from Dakar to Europe.

Air Senegal could well be another possible contender to announce LGW service.

Then of course there is the new national airline for Ghana which is due to officialy start operations in October 2023.

Ghana Airways have three Boeing 789 on order and the airline has previously announced that London would be one of the airlines first international routes. Whether that's LGW or LHR, there is the possibility that Ghana Airways could be yet another possible contender to announce LGW service.

I'm trying to think of a fifth candidate but the only one I can think of is Iraqi Airways.

Iraqi Airways is currently in the process of receiving brand new aircraft such as the A223 and Boeing 737 Max. I'm not sure if the EU ban on Iraqi Airways still exists especially when the airline is receiving brand new aircraft.

If Iraqi Airways can't fly with their own aircraft I'm sure they could use an ACMI operator for the meantime just like they previously did when they last used LGW.

But mentioning Iraqi Airways as a possible fifth candidate is probably a long shot but would be a very welcome addition.

So on that account I've mentioned four or maybe five possible contenders for LGW in 2024.

Air Senegal...Dakar
Air Tanzania...Dar Es Salaam
Air Zimbabwe...Harare
Ghana Airways...Accra
Iraqi Airways...Baghdad

We also have those airlines that we are already aware of that have recently requested slots from ACL at LGW for 2023/2024. Some are airline resumptions and some would be brand new to LGW as in the case of TAAG. They include the following airlines.

Azerbaijan Airways...Baku
Ethiopian Airlines...Addis Ababa
Royal Jordanian Airways...Amman
TAAG Angola Airlines...Luanda

Quite a few possible candidate's for long haul at LGW for 2024. If all of them did announce LGW then surely that would probably supersed 2023 for long haul.

[Sotonsean]

Norse Atlantic have announced that LGW to BOS won't be operating for the IATA northern winter 2023/2024 season and will be a summer seasonal service instead.

I wonder where the spare capacity will go instead unless that was part of the airline's winter plans with the previously announced routes.

[JW95]

Air Tanzania are due to receive their third Boeing 788 in February 2024. Air Tanzania have previously stated that they intend on resuming London Gatwick once they receive their third airframe.

Air Tanzania previously held slots at London Gatwick prior to the covid pandemic. The airline had reportedly lost those slots and were hopeful in obtaining new ones for 2024.

Air Tanzania have been quoted in several travel and aviation media platforms over the last few months in regards to a resumption of a London service. If all goes to plan then hopefully Air Tanzania will soon announce the resumption of service between Dar Es Salaam and London Gatwick.

So on that regards I think we can assume that Air Tanzania could well be a possible contender for long haul at LGW.

Air Zimbabwe could well be another airline. The Zimbabwe authorities have recently stated that one of their priorities is to resume a link between Harare and London Gatwick.

Air Senegal announced a Dakar to London Stansted service prior to the covid pandemic. This service never materialised for obvious reasons. Air Senegal have just this week changed an order for two A220s to two A321Ns. Air Senegal have also stated that they intend on opening new routes from Dakar to Europe.

Air Senegal could well be another possible contender to announce LGW service.

Then of course there is the new national airline for Ghana which is due to officialy start operations in October 2023.

Ghana Airways have three Boeing 789 on order and the airline has previously announced that London would be one of the airlines first international routes. Whether that's LGW or LHR, there is the possibility that Ghana Airways could be yet another possible contender to announce LGW service.

I'm trying to think of a fifth candidate but the only one I can think of is Iraqi Airways.

Iraqi Airways is currently in the process of receiving brand new aircraft such as the A223 and Boeing 737 Max. I'm not sure if the EU ban on Iraqi Airways still exists especially when the airline is receiving brand new aircraft.

If Iraqi Airways can't fly with their own aircraft I'm sure they could use an ACMI operator for the meantime just like they previously did when they last used LGW.

But mentioning Iraqi Airways as a possible fifth candidate is probably a long shot but would be a very welcome addition.

So on that account I've mentioned four or maybe five possible contenders for LGW in 2024.

Air Senegal...Dakar
Air Tanzania...Dar Es Salaam
Air Zimbabwe...Harare
Ghana Airways...Accra
Iraqi Airways...Baghdad

We also have those airlines that we are already aware of that have recently requested slots from ACL at LGW for 2023/2024. Some are airline resumptions and some would be brand new to LGW as in the case of TAAG. They include the following airlines.

Azerbaijan Airways...Baku
Ethiopian Airlines...Addis Ababa
Royal Jordanian Airways...Amman
TAAG Angola Airlines...Luanda

Quite a few possible candidate's for long haul at LGW for 2024. If all of them did announce LGW then surely that would probably supersed 2023 for long haul.

Of those you mention, I can certainly see Ghana Airways and their 789s making an appearance at LGW soon, due to slot constraints and unavailability at LHR. Same also goes to Air Tanzania. Regarding Air Senegal, I'd expect MAG to be competing very hard to get this service launched at STN as was the original plan before Covid began, although they may well go for LGW depending on what GIP offer them :)

In terms of Asia and Asian airlines in general, could we see more come to LGW next year? One thing that has been flagged up consistently in the video interviews with the LGW commercial teams is that they are expecting a further increase of Chinese carriers and routes at Gatwick going forwards. Air China and China Eastern Airlines have already resumed LGW. China Airlines' days at LGW are sadly finished since they now have permanent slots at LHR. I'm wondering who could be next?

[True Blue]

I see BA is stating that the short haul fleet at LGW will increase from 18 this summer to 26 in S24. So a lot of new routes to come?

[pabely]

I see BA is stating that the short haul fleet at LGW will increase from 18 this summer to 26 in S24. So a lot of new routes to come?
So will that be a reduction of Iberia Express & Vueling and/or leased out slots to EZY?

[Sotonsean]

Of those you mention, I can certainly see Ghana Airways and their 789s making an appearance at LGW soon, due to slot constraints and unavailability at LHR. Same also goes to Air Tanzania. Regarding Air Senegal, I'd expect MAG to be competing very hard to get this service launched at STN as was the original plan before Covid began, although they may well go for LGW depending on what GIP offer them :)

In terms of Asia and Asian airlines in general, could we see more come to LGW next year? One thing that has been flagged up consistently in the video interviews with the LGW commercial teams is that they are expecting a further increase of Chinese carriers and routes at Gatwick going forwards. Air China and China Eastern Airlines have already resumed LGW. China Airlines' days at LGW are sadly finished since they now have permanent slots at LHR. I'm wondering who could be next?

The only Chinese carrier I can think of was China Southern Airlines.

Before the pandemic China Southern Airlines had scheduled a Wuhan to London Gatwick service.

But China Southern Airlines are to recommence Wuhan to London Heathrow on the 25 August 2023.

I personally can't think of any potential future Chinese carriers at LGW.

TBH I would even be extremely surprised if Air China and China Eastern remained at LGW for the long term.

The recently launched (2020) full service long haul Taiwanese carrier STARLUX is a possible airline to look out for.

The airline has stated that they intend on serving Europe at some point in the future.

STARLUX has 18 A359 on order and have recently announced their first long haul destination from Taipei which will be Los Angeles.


​​​

[True Blue]

Bringing back slots from EZY I believe.

[vectisman]

Bringing back slots from EZY I believe.

Yes I believe that to be the case.

I have read elsewhere that easyjet may be removing up to 13 aircraft from Gatwick next Summer after difficulties this year.
82 based aircraft has proved a little problematic especially having two main departure waves am and pm.
I believe someone on the Southampton thread said 3 aircraft are going to the new Birmingham based and the others returned to lessors.
I know that Vueling have about 110 weekly slots leased from BA approximately 7 departures and 7 arrivals a day but their operation is stable and also within the IAG overall operation.
The easyjet lease from BA was as high as 220 to 230 slots a week (approximately 16 departures and 16 arrivals a day) These are the ones that will be returned over the next year or so.
As always happy to be corrected.

[pabely]

Yes I believe that to be the case.

I have read elsewhere that easyjet may be removing up to 13 aircraft from Gatwick next Summer after difficulties this year.
82 based aircraft has proved a little problematic especially having two main departure waves am and pm.
I believe someone on the Southampton thread said 3 aircraft are going to the new Birmingham based and the others returned to lessors.
I know that Vueling have about 110 weekly slots leased from BA approximately 7 departures and 7 arrivals a day but their operation is stable and also within the IAG overall operation.
The easyjet lease from BA was as high as 220 to 230 slots a week (approximately 16 departures and 16 arrivals a day) These are the ones that will be returned over the next year or so.
As always happy to be corrected.
They do have alot of new frames arriving early next year x10 320N & x1 321N, I know across whole group, but will help removing leased examples and reducing 319s. There are pain points across the whole operation and should make the S24 more stable.
Whether BA can scale up is another question or will they become the bad boy on canx at LGW next year?!

[JW95]

The only Chinese carrier I can think of was China Southern Airlines.

Before the pandemic China Southern Airlines had scheduled a Wuhan to London Gatwick service.

But China Southern Airlines are to recommence Wuhan to London Heathrow on the 25 August 2023.

I personally can't think of any potential future Chinese carriers at LGW.

TBH I would even be extremely surprised if Air China and China Eastern remained at LGW for the long term.

The recently launched (2020) full service long haul Taiwanese carrier STARLUX is a possible airline to look out for.

The airline has stated that they intend on serving Europe at some point in the future.

STARLUX has 18 A359 on order and have recently announced their first long haul destination from Taipei which will be Los Angeles.


​​​

I hope China Eastern and Air China do stick around at LGW- the airport has undoubtably come a long way since it took a battering in 2020-22 when it lost a large chunk of its long haul network and carriers. I also am hopeful that Cathay Pacific will be back at Gatwick in 2024, now that their London capacity is quickly ramping up to near pre-covid levels. I agree RE. China Southern though, unlikely we will see them at Gatwick.

[JW95]

Yes I believe that to be the case.

I have read elsewhere that easyjet may be removing up to 13 aircraft from Gatwick next Summer after difficulties this year.
82 based aircraft has proved a little problematic especially having two main departure waves am and pm.
I believe someone on the Southampton thread said 3 aircraft are going to the new Birmingham based and the others returned to lessors.
I know that Vueling have about 110 weekly slots leased from BA approximately 7 departures and 7 arrivals a day but their operation is stable and also within the IAG overall operation.
The easyjet lease from BA was as high as 220 to 230 slots a week (approximately 16 departures and 16 arrivals a day) These are the ones that will be returned over the next year or so.
As always happy to be corrected.

Wow, this is quite a reduction for EZY if this does come to fruition, considering they have always been focused on expanding at LGW which is by far their largest base. If they do cut back by 13 aircraft, is this likely to mean that they will no longer need to maintain their (small) operation to/from the South Terminal and just consolidate entirely in the North? (which is what they always wanted, this was a key driver behind the BA/VS/EZY shift in 2017).

[davidjohnson6]

If (and this is a big if) Easyjet cut 13 aircraft at LGW, I would be more concerned about a significant number of summer seasonal routes simply being cut and not returning at all for summer 2024.
Even without a fleet reduction, but based solely on fares, Gatwick-Calvi in particular seems like a strong candidate for the chop

[vectisman]

If (and this is a big if) Easyjet cut 13 aircraft at LGW, I would be more concerned about a significant number of summer seasonal routes simply being cut and not returning at all for summer 2024.
Even without a fleet reduction, but based solely on fares, Gatwick-Calvi in particular seems like a strong candidate for the chop
If EasyJet do have fewer slots owing to slot lease returns in Summer 2024 then the number of flights will have to be reduced. A reduction does not necessarily mean a cut in the number of destinations served but rather a cut in frequencies to some destinations. Interestingly when EasyJet cancelled 1700 flights from Gatwick this July and August it was able to rebook 95% of passengers affected on existing flights and mostly on the same day. This does point to some overcapacity having been present before the cuts.

[vectisman]

I would also like to make it clear that I am not saying EasyJet will remove 13 aircraft from Gatwick for Summer 2024. I was just referring to what had been mentioned elsewhere. However I do believe there will some adjustment to their overall operation at Gatwick in light of their experience this summer and if slots on lease are returned. The morning slot allocation at LGW is already very tight and I can’t see any other current operators willing to give any of theirs up.

[JW95]

Nice to see another new airline at LGW :) As per Aeroroutes, Ethiopian Airlines is to resume service to Gatwick from November this year, 3 times weekly with their A359!

[VickersVicount]

quite a lot of capacity to UK now on Ethiopian. Wonder if LGW route would impact on MAN service numbers which is also due for increase. Im guessing some overlap. Direct maybe preferable to double drop in Switzerland.

[True Blue]

Norse are to operate daily flights to 7 US cities next summer. So they have managed to pick up some more slots. I wonder if they will launch any new routes out of Lgw next summer?

[JW95]

Norse are to operate daily flights to 7 US cities next summer. So they have managed to pick up some more slots. I wonder if they will launch any new routes out of Lgw next summer?

I wouldn't be surprised to see them increase frequency on some of the existing routes that are currently only one daily or less. JFK, LAX and MIA come to mind.

[SWBKCB]

quite a lot of capacity to UK now on Ethiopian. Wonder if LGW route would impact on MAN service numbers which is also due for increase. Im guessing some overlap. Direct maybe preferable to double drop in Switzerland.

Surely the LHR service would have more of an impact on MAN than LGW? Not sure where the overlap would be?

[VickersVicount]

Surely the LHR service would have more of an impact on MAN than LGW? Not sure where the overlap would be?

Lets see. LGW will be marketed as new one-stop, price conscious extra UK capacity. Think Midlands and south..

[SWBKCB]

I never think about the Midlands! :O

And the MAN flights don't seem any cheaper than LHR

[True Blue]

I wouldn't be surprised to see them increase frequency on some of the existing routes that are currently only one daily or less. JFK, LAX and MIA come to mind.

All of the routes served this summer move to daily flights in S24.

[JW95]

Delta is to suspend LGW-JFK for the winter.

Source: https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/1690348567699804160

[VickersVicount]

…expect more of this to come

[JW95]

…expect more of this to come
More suspensions on LGW-JFK? Or generally? I really hope not- LGW has been doing well this year in bringing back lost long haul capacity, and it would be a shame to see some of this disappear (again) :(

[Cuillin Hills]

Check out the difference between London Gatwick and London Stansted departures this afternoon, on Flightradar24, following the UK ATC failure.

Gatwick EZY and BA short haul almost all cancelled whilst nearly all Stansted scheduled flights (particularly Jet2 and Ryanair) operating (albeit with delays) and just the occasional RYR cancellation.

[AVGEEK7812]

Check out the difference between London Gatwick and London Stansted departures this afternoon, on Flightradar24, following the UK ATC failure.

Gatwick EZY and BA short haul almost all cancelled whilst nearly all Stansted scheduled flights (particularly Jet2 and Ryanair) operating (albeit with delays) and just the occasional RYR cancellation.

STN departures get out on time usually aswell for the most part. LGW is a disgrace. LGW-SNN for example is always delayed and has a knock on affect in SNN threw out the day.

[vectisman]

STN departures get out on time usually aswell for the most part. LGW is a disgrace. LGW-SNN for example is always delayed and has a knock on affect in SNN threw out the day.
For goodness sake get some perspective! The operations at Gatwick are greater and more sophisticated than those at Stansted. There were many more aircraft and crews out of position plus lots of aircraft stuck at gates. It was also
an ATC equipment failure not an airport failure.

[AVGEEK7812]

For goodness sake get some perspective! The operations at Gatwick are greater and more sophisticated than those at Stansted. There were many more aircraft and crews out of position plus lots of aircraft stuck at gates. It was also
an ATC equipment failure not an airport failure.

Oh bore off. I meant in general when there are no issues. Not just today.

Pity you cant take someone elses opinion. Typcial cheeky pprune reply

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

For goodness sake get some perspective! The operations at Gatwick are greater and more sophisticated than those at Stansted. There were many more aircraft and crews out of position plus lots of aircraft stuck at gates. It was also
an ATC equipment failure not an airport failure.
Ryanair, easyJet and BA EUROFLYER all operate point to point in a similar short haul market. Ryanair's STN operation is comparable to easyJet's LGW one. Why do you say LGW is more complex? It's not at all! Not sure why one got more away than the other but aside from location there's not much operationally between the three, except perhaps BA lacking economy of scale.

[pabely]

Don't know how up to date this is, a quick Google says RYR STN 43, EZY LGW 84 units.

[AirLCY]

Don't know how up to date this is, a quick Google says RYR STN 43, EZY LGW 84 units.

RYR sounds low, but don’t forget the away based aircraft make up a huge proportion of the flying compared to EZY at LGW

[AirportPlanner1]

RYR sounds low, but don’t forget the away based aircraft make up a huge proportion of the flying compared to EZY at LGW

Indeed, also all FR overnight at STN whereas I believe some EZY are elsewhere.

[pabely]

First EZY domestic arrivals at LGW will often then do a European mainline leg(s) and might not return to it's overnight base until much later in the day.
Thus more complicated than RYR which would just be back to it's base and then another sector from it's base.

[AirportPlanner1]

First EZY domestic arrivals at LGW will often then do a European mainline leg(s) and might not return to it's overnight base until much later in the day.
Thus more complicated than RYR which would just be back to it's base and then another sector from it's base.

If an aircraft is based elsewhere so has less exposure to LGW that actually gives less excuse for delay, not more.

[pabely]

If an aircraft is based elsewhere so has less exposure to LGW that actually gives less excuse for delay, not more.
Like the RUK BFS & EDI first arrivals into STN today which were canx?

[AirportPlanner1]

Like the RUK BFS & EDI first arrivals into STN today which were canx?

Congratulations for picking a notably bad day which has been well documented. How about general performance over a season?

[CabinCrewe]

slightly surprised LGW still down 15% pax numbers vs pre covid. Sounded like they were otherwise going gangbusters.

[JW95]

Sadly, LGW looks set to lose Bamboo Airways altogether, with flights to Ho Chi Minh ceasing 20th September, and Hanoi ending 25th October :( Shame to see another long haul airline leave Gatwick :(

[pabely]

Algerian carrier Air Algerie plans to launch a new route to the United Kingdom. The airline will fly to London Gatwick from 29 October with twice weekly flights.

Algiers - London Gatwick
AH2058 1430 1640 737 6
AH2058 1850 2100 737 7
London Gatwick - Algiers
AH2059 1755 2150 737 6
AH2059 2230 0225+1 737 7

Source: https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/1697484938184905011?s=2

Didn't they run some flights into STN last year, so maybe not impressed with the service they got, yes I know they were short notice LHR change flights during restrictions but you would have thought it would be ideal time for MAG to impress!?

[davidjohnson6]

Algeria is pretty much due south of London... the time and cost of overflying Sussex to reach STN alone must favour AH preferring LGW over STN. Algeria's visa policy makes tourism by UK citizens very difficult. The Algerian community in the UK is a tiny fraction of that in France. The corporate oil traffic will always favour LHR over anywhere else. Why should MAG bend over backwards to get a 2x weekly airline with little potential to expand ?

[pabely]

If you know anything about ex French colonial ties in Africa, most are dropping ties. Universities in Algerie are dropping French and moving to English. They feel abandoned by the French. Look at the nations which have joined the commonwealth recently.
As such this could see increased demand.
The Algerian government would have noted better connections to UK by neighbouring countries in North & Central Africa, I can see restrictions in travel changing, hence this new service and potential. They do have quite a few aircraft arriving so the shedules can be increased as demand increases.

[davidjohnson6]

Pabely - I agree that Algerian visa policy can change... but it's got to change a lot for tourism on anywhere near the scale of Egypt, Tunisia or Morocco. Algeria makes tourism difficult for almost everyone with a European passport. The formerly impossible-to-enter-as-a-nonpilgrim-tourist Saudi Arabia seems to be making tourism easier than Algeria

[vectisman]

British Airways are moving Algiers from Heathrow to Gatwick at the beginning of the winter season to be operated by BA Euroflyer with a daily frequency.

[Sotonsean]

Sadly, LGW looks set to lose Bamboo Airways altogether, with flights to Ho Chi Minh ceasing 20th September, and Hanoi ending 25th October :( Shame to see another long haul airline leave Gatwick :(

Indeed it's a shame to see LGW losing another long haul airline but not really surprising regarding Bamboo Airways as I predicted in an earlier post of mine from a few weeks ago.

[CabinCrewe]

Indeed it's a shame to see LGW losing another long haul airline but not really surprising regarding Bamboo Airways as I predicted in an earlier
post of mine from a few weeks ago.
I think we predicted it at the launch…

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

They left LHR because they couldn't afford the operating costs which is never a good sign.....although a fair comment!

[Sotonsean]

Saudia are reducing Jeddah to LGW for the IATA winter 2023/24 season. Flights reduce from 7 to 4 weekly. Operational days are Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday. Flight times and schedule remains the same.

The IATA winter 2023/24 season will see several reductions or cessations from various long haul airlines at LGW.

Bamboo Airways...abandoning LGW
Delta...going seasonal, "or maybe gone again"
Jetblue...reducing capacity
Norse Atlantic...reducing capacity
Saudia...reducing capacity