Air Niugini's subsidiary - LINK PNG

[fortybelow]

Yea, not so much with the drinking and flying here, its hard enough to find a beer anyway...they are strangely unfunny about that sort of thing...

[geeup]

Duck for some not much has changed :}
Except Kijang is has gone to God.

[krismiler]

https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/613814-air-niugini-737-overun-guam.html

[olderairhead]

Crew ok. Capt minor injuries but able to speak by phone to CEO

[olderairhead]

I am hearing Alan Milne from Qantas has been appointed as the new CEO of Poxie.

Alan's position with Qantas was Head of Fuel and Environment.

Reportedly starting January 2919.

An interesting insight to his performance Alan Milne (http://www.travelweekly.com.au/article/we-use-larger-aircrafts-qantas-responds-to-poorly-ranked-fuel-efficiency/)

Oh dear...........

[olderairhead]

He was the PM's choice but hearing the Board overruled and believe he decided not to apply.

[Mangi Fokker]

Mr Milne may not want it now.

[NCD]

Calls from Opposition Party Leaders for a nationwide strike on 25 and 26th October in the wake of the "Maserati scandal" and now "Bentley Scandal".

Wondering if will be more successful than the one just a couple of years ago that got 10 Pixie pilots sacked for being sick, or if the general don't care about the ways of politicians will hold fast.

Exams defer national strike until Thursday 25 October - Keith Jackson & Friends: PNG ATTITUDE (http://asopa.typepad.com/asopa_people/2018/10/mps-call-for-nationwide-strike-call-on-people-to-do-your-part.html)

[olderairhead]

Mr Milne may not want it now.

Looks like he does. Bold descision.

[olderairhead]

Seems like they are trying to keep the latest F100 maintenance door incident very hush hush but alas they have failed.
Guvment men have big mouths and make a lot of noise.

[paulsalem]

Seems like they are trying to keep the latest F100 maintenance door incident very hush hush but alas they have failed.
Guvment men have big mouths and make a lot of noise.
What happened?

[olderairhead]

FO left the cockpit and FA entered as per SOP's.

When the FO tried to re enter the door refused to unlock.

On board engineer, FO, FA and Capt tried to open the door for a l o n g time with in accordance with all procedures with no success. After around 350 miles Capt finally was able to kick in the bottom panel just prior to TOD.

Just another day in the life a pilot with Poxie style maintenance.

[tripelapidgeon]

The wheels of the PNG justice system grind on ever so slowly.

Hope the effort and financial investment in attempting to tease out the truth and delivering fairness is not all in vain.

Many who seem happy to sign a new contract for a few trinkets seem now not care or have lost interest due to the drawn out process.

[ARPs]

“Management could also be a contributing factor to accidents as working conditions could affect morale”

https://www.thenational.com.pg/air-niugini-still-a-safe-airline-says-ex-pilot/

[mauswara]

In todays Pos Guria, Justice J Kandakasi, PNG's Noted "Dispute Resolution Legal Practitioner" (PX Expat Pilots Dispute/Appeal among his caseload) has just been appointed Deputy Chief Justice.(4th Highest in the Land).Maybe he's been too busy being Promoted to Resolve the PX Pilots case??The determination was expected in March,&/or April this year,then APEC got in the way,now ,of course, its too close to Xmas.The wheels turn VERY slowly.

[Loud Handle]

I think the wheels have fallen off mate....they’re rolling down Mount Giluwe and almost out of sight now. I would think a change of government/PM is needed to get the show/wagon back on the road.

[Mumbai Merlin]

Well known Mr. C has apparently left his Airline job to go to Tropicair as their new GM. Three in three years at TA!

[packapoo]

Rimbunan Hijau

[Duck Pilot]

So what has Tropicair got to do with ANG and TA?

[balusnomore]

"As of March 31 2019, QantasLink will resume its international flights between Cairns and Port Moresby: a route that was axed in 2016, leaving Air Nuigini as the only option for the 85-minute hop".

Am told QF will provide two return services a day, wonder what the affect on PX will be. And the 737 weekly POM NRT route to be suspended. What, no crew, shortage of airframes or simply no passengers?

[harrryw]

Ahhh,
The aero cub, beer, meri’s and a Bandeirante that I had ownership of (well that’s what I thought at the time) and a trusty Kijang, what more could a young pilot ask for? And I never needed a second pilot back in those days��

Both of those clubs Darwin and Port Moresby were great places to have a few....or more beverages. That was back in the early 70s but I am sure they continued the tradition. I was a member of the one at Jacksons but never got round to joining in Darwin.

[olderairhead]

Didn't take too long:

January 11, 2019
THE law firm of Berman O’Connor & Mann filed in the Federated States of Micronesia has filed a civil action against Air Niugini and Does Entities 1-10 at the FSM Supreme Court in Chuuk on behalf of their client Tatiana Patricio.

The civil action arises from injuries Patricio sustained as a result of the crash of Air Niugini Flight 56 on September 28, 2018 in the waters short of the runway at the Chuuk International Airport in Weno.

Does 1-10 entities are insurance companies that provided general liability coverage and excess level liability coverage in policies issued to Air Niugini.

The civil action claims that Air Niugini was negligent in failing to provide safe travel on Air Niugini Flight 56 during its approach and descent to the Chuuk Airport. It alleges that Air Niugini and its pilot and crew failed to properly and reasonably:

 Monitor the flight’s position and altitude;

 Monitor the aircraft’s descent below the approach profile;

 Note the aircraft’s descent below Minimum Descent Altitude;

 Confirm a proper read-back and understanding of the landing clearance;

 Properly respond to an emergency situation; and

 Otherwise utilize reasonable care and circumspection in the interests of air safety

The civil action is asking the court to render judgment including but not limited to pre and post-impact pain and suffering of the plaintiff, property damage prior to death to personal belongings, including, without limitation, luggage, wallets, money, briefcase, coats, toys, passports, clothing, and jewellery, mental anguish and grief of the plaintiff and medical expenses and all other damages to which Plaintiff may be entitled under applicable law. Attempts to obtain comments from Air Niugini last night were unsuccessful.

SOURCE: KASELELHIE PRESS/PACNEW

I m hearing that the Captain has "been retained but lost his command and will revert back to his original position at B767 FO and the FO has also "been retained" and sent away for further training.

As for the L O N G awaited decision hearing 2 Judges have completed their reports but the 3rd has not.

[balusnomore]

POST COURIER
January 14, 2019

NATIONAL airline Air Niugini says it is already aware of legal action being taken against it by two passengers over by the ill-fated Flight 73 of September 28, 2018, which crashed at Chuuk in the Federated States of Micronesia.

But it has not decided on a specific course of action pending the current investigation being carried out by the Accident Investigation Commission.

“Air Niugini can confirm it has received correspondence for lawyers acting on behalf of two passengers who were on board Flight 73 on September 28, 2018,” the airline said in a short statement.

“The Accident Investigation Commission (AIC) investigation is ongoing therefore the specific claims made in the writ that has been published in the media are yet to be proven.

“Since the incident, Air Niugini has been in contact with all passengers to ensure they are getting the support they need, with the majority of the passengers welcoming this assistance.”

Law firm Berman O’Connor & Mann filed the civic action in the FSM Supreme Court against Air Niugini and Does Entities 1-10.

Does Entities 1-10 are insurance companies that provide general liability coverage and excess level liability coverage in policies issued to Air Niugini.

The civil action claims that Air Niugini was negligent in failing to provide safe travel on Air Niugini Flight 56 during its approach and descent to the Chuuk Airport. It alleged that Air Niugini and its pilot and crew failed to properly and reasonably:

 Monitor the flight’s position and altitude;

 Monitor the aircraft’s descent below the approach profile;

 Note the aircraft’s descent below Minimum Descent Altitude;

 Confirm a proper read-back

and understanding of the landing clearance;

 Properly respond to an emergency situation; and

 Otherwise utilise reasonable care and circumspection in the interests of air safety.



The civil action is asking the court to render judgment including but not limited to pre- and post-impact pain and suffering of the plaintiff, property damage prior to death to personal belongings, including, without limitation, luggage, wallets, money, briefcase, coats, toys, passports, clothing, and jewellery, mental anguish and grief of the plaintiff and medical expenses and all other damages to which Plaintiff may be entitled under applicable law.

[olderairhead]

I'm hearing there are tears of joy in POM today!

Dear Colleagues,

SUBJECT: DEPARTURE OF MR. TAHAWAR DURRANI

It is with deep regret that I am announcing the departure of Mr. Tahawar Durrani from Air Niugini effective as of 16 January, 2019. Durrani has decided to leave after having served Air Niugini with commitment and loyalty for over thirteen (13) years.

Since Durrani joined Air Niugini he has been a valuable and well respected staff member. The work and contributions, including the extended hours of dedication are greatly honoured. We will miss Durrani’s professionalism, empathy and strength. We respect his decision and wish him every success in his future endeavours.

On behalf of everyone at Air Niugini, we wish Durrani good luck for the future and bid him a happy farewell.

Alan Milne

Managing Director

18 January, 2019

[Kiwiconehead]

And there was rejoicing throughout the land

Goodbye King Julien

[Pinky the pilot]

But will anything change?:confused:

I weep for a place I once loved...

[olderairhead]

Imagine the trifecta, Toofar, Looneygona and the King. :D

[The Big E]

[ Goodbye King Julien ]

Some would say better late than never. Should have gone years ago and many of the good people would probably still be there.
Ya all take care now.

[olderairhead]

Not much has changed with the appointment of the new CEO.

Reports are a very senior Fokker Captain who has been on extended sick leave and is now cleared medically to fly again has been told his services are no longer required by HR..... read Looneygona.

The CEO received an email from said pilot who replied that he had investigated and what HR said was correct.

Problem is Poxie advertised internally for Fokker Captains.

Well done Mr CEO who promised so much but as usual speaks with forked tongue.

Nothing ever seems to change with this mob.

It will be interesting to see how IFALAPA intervention helps.

[Kiwiconehead]

I did hear that Q400s were back on the cards

As somehow, the Fokker reliability figures had been fudged to push someones agenda....

[balusnomore]

So, the most senior member of the PNG Air Pilots Association, who just happened to give the lead evidence in "The Court Case", and due to his dedication to fairness manages a Court House win for the pilots, even with PX spending hundreds and hundreds of thousands Kina on Aussie Queens Counsels,... AND now his contract is not renewed....with around 20 years PNG experience, Training and SIGNIFICANT jet time??.


Seems the two year contract change (sorry we just arnt renewing your contract, no discussion tasol!!!) took him out, even though the contract change was dismissed by the Judge, and the previous one (with 3 year contracts) was ordered to be reinstated. Go figure!!

Wonder why the High Court PX Appeal decision has taken over 18 months to be released?????

Hey, Kiwiconehead, PX need to do something about fleet replacement...I hear that if ever the guys decide not take an aircraft due to MEL's... not many Fokkers would grace the sky's of PNG.

[olderairhead]

Good timing Mr CEO........oops Managing Director.

Given your stance with the "sacking" of the ANG Pilots Association President your message to all staff made me laugh especially point 3.

3. PEOPLE:
a. Acknowledge that our people are our most valuable asset;
b. Engagement survey to be conducted with all staff;
c. Develop a People focussed strategy to ensure engagement, retention and ownership;
d. Build the Air Niugini “family”;
e. Engage with PNG Schools and Universities to promote the business;
f. Build Air Niugini as the “Employer of Choice” in PNG.​​​​​​​

[DHC8 Driver]

Good timing Mr CEO........oops Managing Director.

Given your stance with the "sacking" of the ANG Pilots Association President your message to all staff made me laugh especially point 3.

3. PEOPLE:
a. Acknowledge that our people are our most valuable asset;
b. Engagement survey to be conducted with all staff;
c. Develop a People focussed strategy to ensure engagement, retention and ownership;
d. Build the Air Niugini “family”;
e. Engage with PNG Schools and Universities to promote the business;
f. Build Air Niugini as the “Employer of Choice” in PNG.

The thing that surprises me more than anything else is that you guys seem to have believed that things would actually change. It is whatt it is and it will never change (for the better at least)!!!!

[NCD]

Dash Bloke..

"The thing that surprises me more than anything else is that you guys seem to have believed that things would actually change. It is was it is and it will never change (for the better at least)!!!!"

Tru words yu tok.....
All there thought it would be great after the court win...and then were let down with the never ending delay to the "Appeal", then all thought it would be great with an Airline experienced MD/CEO to take over...AND let down again. But hold the press, all is good...".you'll all employees are going to get a "High Altitudes" Polo shirt :)" Stockholm rings a bell.

End of the day, PX is just a PNG state owned enterprise, owned by the Government, and interference will ALWAYS be rife. So whilst the new Aviation experienced MD/CEO is prob a superior breath of fresh air considering the capabilities of both the last incumbent, and the outgone acting CEO, kinda doubtful much will change ...as it prob CANT change due to the established interference.

PX is best described as the age old saying......you can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig...and it needs to be a bloody big pig considering what feeds of it.

So Dash Bloke...you are right, the guys expected change, it hasn't happened, more than likely will never change, and combining that with only a 2 year contract, gotta say, why would you bother, unless you are looking for short term cash transit job..and seriously that is all it is.

Oh yeah...Company Payback for the Association Hierarchy ...SURELY you guys knew that PAYBACK would eventually arrive !!!!!!!

[olderairhead]

Given the launch of "Higher Altitudes" by the MD the following is being circulated to some pilots.

Timing is the essence of good comedy.

“the driftdown is to prepare us for failure from higher altitudes"

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/f100_driftdown_flight_path_flattened1_001_3b97a0bf7714cd6dcb 04b2f32e9635ad7d31e77d.jpg

[Duck Pilot]

The so called drift down started years ago when management started changing the T&Cs.

It was always going to get worse, certainly not better with regards to T&Cs. Anyone who expected the new MD/CEO to improve salaries and all the rest of it has got to have rocks in their head. Try working for any other PNG SOE or government organisation which I did when I left PX in 2011. You will very quickly learn that salaries for technically qualified (both expat and national) people within the departments isn’t a high priority on the government’s agenda to improve their workforce, hence the reason why the regulator and the AIC have struggled for decades to recruit and retain suitably qualified technical experts. The government really tries to keep the T&Cs pitched at the grassroots level and understandably so in some cases, however there should be exceptions as aviation is a global industry and not unique or specific only to PNG as we all know.

At the end of the day, everyone has s choice to remain or bail out. Horses for courses!

[olderairhead]

Poxie made a K54 million loss for 2018. 2017 was not much better with a K45. 8 million loss.

PX records over K54m loss in 2018 | Loop PNG (http://www.looppng.com/business/px-records-over-k54m-loss-2018-83106)

[Kagamuga]

Replacement Dash 8-200 arrived C-GRGK, should name it "Mendi"

[Kiwiconehead]

Replacement Dash 8-200 arrived C-GRGK, should name it "Mendi"

Should name it "Don't set this one on fire!!!"

[Pinky the pilot]

People have been predicting the downfall of Pixie/PNG in general for so many years now that it is almost like a broken record!

However, I wonder if that long predicted 'untergang' is now not far off!!:confused: No Airline/Business in any Country let alone a third world place such as PNG can absorb those sorts of losses for too long.

I mean.... they haven't sold many (if any) of the Massers or any other of the fancy wheels they lashed out on for the massive gabfest now, have they?

Shurley we would have been told if they had!!:E

[olderairhead]

And they continue to lose good, loyal long term pilots. Another with 9 1/2 years walked away this week. Just had enough he said, no more.

Leaves a big hole in the Pilot's Association tho.

[troppo]

Poxie made a K54 million loss for 2018. 2017 was not much better with a K45. 8 million loss.

PX records over K54m loss in 2018 | Loop PNG (http://www.looppng.com/business/px-records-over-k54m-loss-2018-83106)

All things considered and in lieu of publicly available audited accounts I reckon that is a pretty good effort. We're only talking USD$16m and some flag carriers have lost far more under less challenging conditions. That said, the last available Auditor General's report alludes to some umm...issues that need to be resolved :} The overall impact of addressing the identified issues may mean a significantly higher loss being booked but in the meantime cat and mouse with the Auditor General and burying heads in sand should prevent a popular uprising :}

Pinky, it's not a real business. It's state owned ie tax payer funded

[lucille]

Troppo...

When you say tax payer funded, you need to be a bit more specific as to which taxpayer.. It’s the hapless Aussie taxpayer which keeps PNG afloat courtesy of yet another in a long line of 22 year old DFAT prodigies doling out cash like there’s no tomorrow,

[packapoo]

Ahh Lucille, you may be right there.....

Did you know that AusAid staffers, housed in the compound foot of Touaguba, (known locally as Fort Fear) handy to the Aviat and Yachtie, enjoy, for their endeavours VAT free status?
Not bad eh?
Sorry for getting off-topic....:E

[Duck Pilot]

I think the tax perks have changed in recent years for Australian public servants who are based offshore. Recall researching this a few years ago when I was eyeing off an offshore job within the public service. Nonetheless pretty good coin was still on offer.

[olderairhead]

The ECP moves on. Any non national who attains the age of 65 is not having their contracts renewed and all supported by the new CEO, MD or whatever tag he uses.
They said that would rid the airline of those pesky expats and are well on the way of doing so.
The wall of fame is getting longer and longer.

​​​

[Petropavlovsk]

In the budget for the forthcoming year the AU government has increased the amount of Foreign Aid to PNG. This is the public figure released to the media, far from reality but regardless... the amount of the increase I think is approximately the same as the loss incurred by PX in their last report.
Lucille; I think you were correct in your posting.
With a B767 in China for 'scheduled' maintenance at present; I doubt if the MRO will be releasing the aircraft with a 'time payment' programme... so whom is really paying the bill?

[The Sleeping Pax]

I think Poxie/Pixie ANG is in more trouble than you think. No flights to Townsville anymore, upsetting miners passing through the POM community, This past weekend POM-SIN-POM flights cancelled at the last moment pissing off many westward bound travelers looking forward to their breaks further afield than SIN and I was told this pm that flights to Tokyo are suspended - so their goes my trip to Geisha-land and onwards to the UK for my Easter break. I'm having to re-book through the accursed MNL and get LHR on the equally dreadful BA or Flip-Flop Airlines. PHUQ.

The threatened Shanghai services never made it beyond the Boarding gate.

[Duck Pilot]

Heard they left quite a few people behind in BNE yesterday due an airframe shortage and to make things worse today's flight ex BNE was also late getting away for the same reason. With Sunstate moving back in on the CNS-POM route, their Australian loads must be starting to dwindle. Lots of people I work with who do FIFO to PNG from Europe and the UK on a monthly basis are going through Oz now opposed to Singapore because it's more reliable and cheaper even travelling business class.

[krismiler]

B737 increasingly being seen in Singapore instead of the B767.

[NCD]

"B737 increasingly being seen in Singapore instead of the B767"

One 767 in for C check with the other to follow, so 737 operating some SIN flights....... understand the 737 went tech in SIN a day or so ago and ended up spending some extra extra time on the ground, might even still be there.


"The pax will just vote with their feet as most of the pilots have"

Reliability has been an issue with Pixie for many many years. And with fleets of such ageing airframes the reliability issues just keep getting worse.

[Chop Chop]

olderairhead is it not an ICAO rule that dictates 65 is the retirement age and not Air Niugin? Little hard to blame them for that, management don’t decide who turns 65 be it National or Expat! And it not like it just creeps up on one.

As for passengers voting with their feet. Good luck with that as far as I’m aware they have no competition on Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan, FSM, Solomon’s, Sydney, Fiji, Vanuatu and let’s not talk about FSM.

Anyone know how many pilots are left at PX?

[olderairhead]

olderairhead is it not an ICAO rule that dictates 65 is the retirement age and not Air Niugin? Little hard to blame them for that, management don’t decide who turns 65 be it National or Expat! And it not like it just creeps up on one.

As for passengers voting with their feet. Good luck with that as far as I’m aware they have no competition on Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan, FSM, Solomon’s, Sydney, Fiji, Vanuatu and let’s not talk about FSM.

Anyone know how many pilots are left at PX?

First post Chop Chop!
What position do you hold in Poxie mismanagement?
As we all know ICAO only provide recommendations they do not make rules.

[Petropavlovsk]

olderairhead,

If you are a signatory to ICAO, which we are in PNG, Australia, New Zealand, come to think of it; most of the world you abide by their decisions.
I really think the post re age 65 was more about internal country Ops, where the age 65 limit does not apply, but PX management want to clear the deck of expat's to make way for under performing National pilots (B737 in water) and so forth. It would be very easy to schedule under 65's for International Ops, and keep the over 65's for Domestic. Hang on a minute, even easier to have no crew over 65.

Tonight the Government Falcon 900 flew POM - CNS - POM using a ANG8091 callsign. Was the F900 carrying out an RPT flight in lieu of a Fokker or Boeing?

[Duck Pilot]

It’s CASA PNG who make rules not ICAO and any country can choose not to apply an ICAO Standard, all they gotta do is file a difference. Australia and PNG have 100s of differences. Whatever is in Part 61 about ages and pairing is the bottom line. Any operator can choose to raise the bar on what the regs mandate.

As far as no competition on some of the international routes in and out of POM goes, pax are certainly using their feet to fly with other carriers and they are circumnavigating PX by travelling longer distances for cheaper tickets and better reliability.

[NCD]

65 WAS the PX retirement age until a recent change last year where for the Domestic Fleets the 65 year PX retirement age was removed (most likley due to an understandable inability to attract pilots). But has the 65 retirement age has been reinstated, or is it just a case of not renewing the 2 year contract of someone not liked?

Chop Chop, yes I am sure management would prefer not to talk about FSM, particularly Flight PX73 to Chuuk.

[Chop Chop]

Has 65 not always been the international standard for retirement as a Captain? Certainly is in Australia, Singapore, Hong Kong & Japan (maybe 60?). Not only effects PX just ask PNGAir, Hevilift, TropicAir. Dam you PX management for following the rules!

CAR PNG has no limit on age domestically. Contract requirements and company requirements vary. Lots of pilots over 65 operating in ALL companies in PNG and that’s nothing new.

[NCD]

Chop

65 is the ICAO nominated for max age on the flight deck, but it is up to individual countries to nominate an age...keeping in mind that if the country flying to has limited it to 65 you wont be able to go. In fact there is prob no reason, except for CASA PNG, that someone over the age of 65 couldn't do international flights from PNG to AUS and back as Australia allows over 65.

But I don't see anyone on this website stating that PX is not correct in its intent of not crewing international flights with pilots who have past 65 due to ICAO/CASAPNG, just stating that they are getting rid of guys who are turning 65 without giving them a fleet move to domestic where they CAN operate past 65. So your post does not really contribute anything to that we all know.

But PX continue to employ very low time or no PNG experienced or no jet experience to operate the domestic jet operation ("not to mention" 3 guys with a combined training of around 700 hours and weren't checked to line!!) when they have extremely competent pilots with extensive in country experience and significant jet time who PX could certainly use to keep it safety standards up.

So considering that PX has ended it extremely successful cadet system, they will struggle for some time to find guys to adapt quickly to the PNG operations (almost no nav aids, a Fokker fleet that can't do GPS approaches with visual approaches the norm on sectors with Lowest Safes some around the 17,000 foot mark) when they have the guys that are keen for a return to Domestic.

Anyway, at the end of the day it is their train wreck I guess.

[olderairhead]

I have been informed that another 3 have also been told their services are no longer required.

And none of them have been offered another fleet.

The ECP in action.

Oh and not to mention the one with 21 years service who requested tours so his family could live off shore due to crime and violence in PNG. Request denied. So he's gone as well.

[Chop Chop]

How many pilots have been sacked / resigned / retired so far in 2019?

How many pilots have been hired in 2019?

[NCD]

CHOP,
its only just April so I guess some resignations will hold on until the 600 plus hour piss poor Kina bonus is paid that came due at the end of March, but I can tell you that there is a list that shows 134 pilots that have left since the 2015 contract was implemented. And I feel that underestimates the number as the list went a period where some names were not added.

INTHENIGHTGARDEN,
not sure of the numbers of guys that got endorsed but did not check, but know of one that was in excess of 300 hrs and two well in excess of 200hrs , and were not even looking at line checks, guess that is what happens when you take inexperience.

One who did pass the Fokker endorsement, but didn't make line training found out the hard way that you don't criticise a third party doing your endorsement training when asked what you thought of how it all went. Suspended the next day, sacked within the fortnight.

He obviously missed the session in the indoctrination that you dont have any rights and never ever offer criticism, even if it is constructive, against the employer or its contractors. No first world defence of truth in a third world country.

[olderairhead]

How many pilots have been sacked / resigned / retired so far in 2019?

How many pilots have been hired in 2019?

There are 1337 posts on this thread that will answer all your questions.
Maybe start to read from post 1 and you will get a proper understanding of what this thread is all about and find answers to your questions.

But I bet you won't.

Maybe here just to stir the pot instead??

[Loud Handle]

There are 1337 posts on this thread that will answer all your questions.
Maybe start to read from post 1 and you will get a proper understanding of what this thread is all about and find answers to your questions.

But I bet you won't.

Maybe here just to stir the pot instead??

I am no fan of PX, my past posts stand testament to that but I think I can understand someone like Chop Chop wanting to air his/her feelings.

I lost interest in this thread as it as it was just the same witches, gathered around the cauldron, shrieking at one another creating a very dull echo chamber.

Believe it it or not Airhead there are some who are “happy enough” with their lot at PX and perhaps Chop Chop is airing their feelings. And before you jump in and call them scabs and they’ve just arrived may I just stop you. They have been at PX well before the new contract was passed down but for one reason or another find their current circumstances acceptable.

This thread reminds me of the EK threads over on the ME section. Just the same blokes shouting and screaming at anyone who suggests it might not all be bad and may have a different perspective to their own. Well with Choppie here, this thread has just got a little more interesting and perhaps we should respect other people’s opinions even when heaven forbid they differ from our own.

[Petropavlovsk]

The age 65 is being misunderstood by most.
ICAO ruled NO crew member can be age over 65 on an International flight which is deemed a commercial operation therefore RPT, Charter and so forth.. This applies to Captain, First Officer and any other supplementary flight crew. Read the ruling! If your Country is a signatory to ICAO then the country is committed to enforcing the recommendation/ruling/law. That is why you become a signatory.
This does NOT apply to Domestic operations in any country. In Australia the age discrimination Act prevent a pilot being terminated due to age. Pass your medical and flight checks, keep flying, good luck to you, for Domestic RPT and Charter Ops. Again private flights not affected..
The are no age dispensations issued by CASA to my knowledge, if you know otherwise please let me know, I'm an affected party!
For CASA PNG and Australia to file for an exemption, they would have to lodge the exemption with ICAO in the Hague; current wait time is approx. 18 months, so I have been told. It is not in the interest of Aviation Authorities to pursue such a course of action; so your are own you own, I imagine it would cost a few million $ with no guaranteed outcome.
Read the CASA PNG and AU regs very carefully please.... it does say "flight crew" not just a Captain. I also think that if the Captain is over 60 years of age the F/O must be under 60 years of age (not sure)
I lost my job to age 65 ..... got hauled over the coals by CASA for ignoring it. 80% of my flying was International

[olderairhead]

Loud Handle maybe re read my post. With a 3 poster I only suggested he / she read the whole thread rather than being spoon fed.

I couldn't care less who posts here. As I have said before (yes buried in one of those 1337 posts) I am only passing on what is passed on to me because they do not want to post because of fear of threatened repurcussions.

This thread may be of disinterest to you but this is where many others are kept abreast of what is currently happening and a thread where the disgruntled that are left can vent their frustrations.

Do not shoot the messenger.

Time to move on methinks.

[NCD]

LOUD HANDLE,

As the originator of this thread I can say that It was never intended to be a "slagfest": against ANG, but simply a thread that is informative of changes.

PX WAS quite simply a great job, we worked hard, had great training, had great crews on both sides of the flight deck and in the back, GREAT Engineering, supportive management, and the interaction between all departments (Tech, Flight, Engineering, Ground and Management) made a difficult job somewhat easier.

I personally love operating in PNG, love the people and take great pride in getting them safely to where they want to go, and when we can't get them there, take them back to POM and when those pax thank you for your effort is just great.

However a fact is a fact....ANG management has made it such an ordeal that it is simply just a job, and a ****ty one at that

But the most sobering thing that many of us had to deal with is the fact that we were taking bets on when we would lose an airframe. So when the B737 crashed short of the runway in Chuck, not only causing the first PX fatality, but giving several passengers critical injuries we were all surprised as none of us suspected that the B737 Fleet would be the Fleet to do so.

So no, it is not like a EK bashing thread, it is about the pride we HAD in the airline that many of us have been involved in for so many years and the fact that we care the track that Air Niugini was/is being taken by it owners.

BUT as OLD DUDE says, time to move on...my last post on the subject...fill your boots in support of the Management....Ill just keep on checking my bank statement,...and counting the days till I hit the magic 65 years of age.

[Loud Handle]

LOUD HANDLE,

.fill your boots in support of the Management.....

NCD, you are clearly too bone idle to check my past posts as if you had you would see I clearly do not support PX management. What I do support is other people’s right to a point of view without it being slagged off because their point of view differs from mine. You guys are so sensitive when an opposing point of view is presented. If it’s so **** there do what I and many others did and leave rather than sit around until you are 65, bitter and twisted. Life is too short.

[olderairhead]

Let's all kiss and make up and get back on track and stop the thread drift before the mods shut it down.
:ok:

[Loud Handle]

That’s the spirit, kisses all around from my side! 😘 😄

[chimbu warrior]

Agree with what Petropavlovsk has stated regarding the ICAO restrictions on international operations by pilots over 65 years of age, but have been told that both Virgin and Air New Zealand ignore this for trans-Tasman and some Pacific flights (possibly POM flights in the case of Virgin, but not certain of that).

If PX are required to comply with this, why would a competitor be allowed to ignore it?

[RUMBEAR]

Over 65 is possible if their is an agreement between governments. So Australia may have a formal agreement in place with NZ. Virgin couldn’t apply on POM route unless Aus and PNG government had a agreement.

[Chop Chop]

Dash8 & Fokker both direct entry & cadets are on better conditions now then they have ever been on at Pixie.

Virgin use Alliance on the BNE-POM run now.

MD is having a red hot go

[Chop Chop]

Simply put the 65 rule is a CASA PNG rule so PX have no say.

CAR Part 120 (20.105, Part 125 (c)

[olderairhead]

Simply put the 65 rule is a CASA PNG rule so PX have no say.

CAR Part 120 (20.105, Part 125 (c)


So keep them on domestic or Rh seat international or cull. We know which option the MD supports. Having a red hot go at continuing the ECP.

[olderairhead]

Dash8 & Fokker both direct entry & cadets are on better conditions now then they have ever been on at Pixie.

MD is having a red hot go

No comment required. :ugh:

[The Sleeping Pax]

I hope you don’t mind a second intervention by a simple PAX in your deliberations in this thread, but as one who puts some of their somewhat limited resources into paying some of those of you up fronts wages each month, (if ANZ Bank has enough foreign currency to transfer payment to your homeland – presently I’m three months behind), I do have another observation to make.

I just received a package from ANG for my ANG Destinations Executive Club card. All gold and pretty and my name surprisingly spelled correctly.

In the bag was a magazine entitled Paradise Annual 2018! A chunky brochure extolling the delights of PNG and full of the ads you see in the Paradise Magazine you see on board any Pixie flight. OK this is PNG and they are not quite ready for the 2019 edition by mid April.

I took to reading the magazine as yet again the Internet was down and the think was the nearest thing to read in the gloom. There was a wonderful message from the Chairman of ANG.

“Air Niugini now flies regularly to and from most of the major centres in the Asia-Pacific region, including Hong Kong, Singapore, Tokyo, Manila, Bali, Sydney, Brisbane, Cairns, Townsville, Nadi, Honiara, Pohnpei, and Chuuk”.

Wonderful.

I hope that someone tells him for the 2019 edition that ANG only fly daily to two of the destinations, and no longer fly to three of them. Oh yes he brags about passenger and freight services to Shanghai. I’ve noticed that the posters advertising those flights have recently been taken down at the Waterfront Mall.

The more interesting thing and maybe appropriate lines come later.

“…we will soon be preparing in earnest for the arrival of two new Boeing 737-MAX aircraft in 2020, with two more to follow in 2021”.

Try as I might, I’ve not read of any concerns about the purchase or not of these four aircraft since the sad episodes in Indonesia and Ethiopia. Are any of you up front scheduled for training on these aircraft. Any of you any idea about the purchase?

By the way, yes there have been a few issues with my ANG flights but those of you up front, and the boys and girls of the airline taking care of us in the back do a great and professional service - even if some of you are around the age of 65.!!!

[NCD]

I know, I said I would stay out of it....BUT.

Chop, you say that "The MD is having a red hot go'.... Well yes, he does TALK THE TALK, but no walking yet.....I suggest that if any PX pilot thinks he is a friend, they should remember that he has come from QF, learnt his management skills from QF, and dont forget that QF locked it pilots out of the workplace (and made them resort to wearing red ties :}.)

Your point regarding Cadets, you might just very well be a newcomer to PX, BUT ACTUALLY AM had nought to do with the conditions of the Cadets.

HISTORY.....In order to cut costs (to survive?, or make bonuses? or whatever) the then Management of PX and the GMFO came up with the idea that the Cadets who had made Command would be designated as DH8 Cadet Captains, with the big gotcha being that they would be paid a Cadet Captain salary, a big discount to the "REAL DH8 CAPTAINS"

This led to several EXTREMELY (and I mean extremely talented) Cadets leaving for other fields.....so the then Management changed the package to once again follow what the previous system was, and enjoyed by many of the current 767 Captains. SO Mr CHOP, the current conditions for the Cadets had nothing to do with the now MD, it was all done and dusted well before he got there....but keep blowing smoke....

To your point that DCT entry are better off than ever, in 2015 I suffer a 19% deficit in salary, that has continued to more than 24% deficit in 2019. Supported by the fact that the two Unions spent over 600,000 Kina, and ANG prob spend a Mil plus (2 Mill +???) on its International Law Firm, and Australian Queens Council to defend itself suggests that your assertion that everybody is better of is maybe slanted a little towards your management thoughts.

But I do ponder that perhaps you might not be simply a stirrer as suggested, just perhaps someone supportive of the Pilot cause in that you have continued to keep this as a top 5 post....and are dragging out the real facts that relate to PX. If so, keep on doing so, as you are doing an excellent job.

Debate is good...but truth and facts are better, are they not??

If it is the later I salute you, if it is the former well I think you may be somewhat deluded.

(PS Chop: send me your email address and Ill send you the pay scales, conditions and also contract for 2012 and you can compare them to the 2015, 16, 17, 18, 19 nil progression pay scales, and then you can try and argue how much better we are not off :) ).

Loud Handle...sorry that I may have come across bitter and twisted...I can assure you that I am not at all, simply putting the facts and the truth out there...but thanks for your concerns, it is appreciated. :ok:

[Chop Chop]

Lots to think about in the recent posts.

A quick couple questions as the previous doesn’t make sense;

Everyone is angry due to people being let go due to coming of age (65)?

And yet

Everyone is angry that people of age (65) haven’t been offered jobs in domestic under the worst conditions known to
pilots? If it’s that rubbish why would they want to stay after reaching 65?

Very confusing.

Fokker & Dash pilots, both FOs & Captain are now doing FIFO.

Loss 24% of their salary yet now they now get 50% time off?

[lucille]

ICAO does not “rule” as such, it makes recommendations which each country can choose to adopt as rules in their airspace.... or not.

Age 65 is one such recommendation. It applies only in the country whose rules explicitly state it. Inconveniently, to us fossils, it also applies if youre simply over flying the airspace of such a country whose rules dictate a maximum age. The complications of rostering cause the over 65s to be dispatched to the glue factory.

A few countries choose to ignore certain inconvenient ICAO recommendations while others enthusiastically add on even more layers of rules, exceptions and complications because they “know best”.

[olderairhead]

Olderdude any idea how many guys they have endorsed on the Fokker but haven't checked to line? Must have cost them a fortune all the while kicking out the experienced drivers. They really ought to start mandatory drug testing up on the 4th floor.

My sources tell me recently 3 were terminated with a total of 700 hours line training between them and none checked to line. There have been a few more before them but 4th floor doesn't care about these costs and will not listen to C&T Captains of Fleet Managers. How many times have they heard keep training them until they pass.

[Duck Pilot]

Someone mentioned indirectly that the cadet program has been dropped, is it correct that they no longer have cadets doing abinitio training offshore?

When is the first 737 Max expected to be delivered? Might be sooner than later if Boeing can sort the technical issues out.

[Chop Chop]

LinkPNG expanding with another 3 Dash8’s being leased and Q400s with 75% chance of being added to their AOC.

The famous 3 haven’t been sacked yet as it’s still pending. Policy & procedures not followed.

Pilot Cadet program finished in 2017.

[Magnetomick]

Duck Pilot said
“Someone mentioned indirectly that the cadet program has been dropped, is it correct that they no longer have cadets doing abinitio training offshore?”

I am now in Coffs Harbour and have not seen Lik Lik draiver blo Balus for several years now.
No more proud uniformed boys and Méris walking airside from the demountable with the gym.
No more wantoks walking to town with bilums.
Few years back Had an aerobatic light go into terrain east of the field and just in from the dunes. 1st thing I said was get the PNG guys up here to cut us a track in.

[Duck Pilot]

Defies all logic why they pulled the plug on the cadet scheme in many ways, however it’s their train set. Given the fact that PNG currently (and never has) have no flying school or military establishment that can produce pilots to meet the needs of any Part 121 airline.

Having trained quit a few cadets during my time with PX, I must admit that most of them were pretty sharp albeit with only a few hundred hours flying around in some of the most challenging environments in the world in a Dash 8 as a FO.

Really defies all logic, but what would I know.

[olderairhead]

Really defies all logic, but what would I know.

Not much Duck​​​ :} but never fear cos at least they now have Chop Chop ​:ugh:​​​​​.

[Chop Chop]

Another 200 series Dash added to LinkPNG

Engineers on their way back from Canada now after inspecting another 300 series Dash. First reports are all good.

[Chop Chop]

olderairhead when you worked for LinkPNG was it 21 days ON / 21 days OFF or 28 days ON / 28 days OFF?

[ARPs]

Chop chop, when older chap was there it wasn’t Link PNG, it was Air Niugini.

To answer your question it was both, some guys there were on 21/21 tours and some on 28/28. And the ‘full time’ guys had the options of POM, CNS and BNE bases. Being based in Oz meant you reported for duty at home base. PX even provided the required firm seats to travel to and from POM.

No paxing in your own time, at your own cost.

[olderairhead]

OK time to get back on track.

I have been informed tonight that the long awaited decision will be handed down tomorrow (25th) at 9.30am

[NCD]

So lots of emails doing the rounds about THE DECISION being handed down in the am tomorrow.

To bring up to date...Air Niugini Management already lost this court case a few years ago...the Judge stated that ANG Management had under duress implemented the 2015 Pilot Contract...but ANG never being one to admit error appealed that ruling. It is the ANG Appeal result that is being given tomorrow at 930.

And if there is any Justice in PNG (as slow as it is!!!!) ANG will again be found to have used duress in the implementation of the 2015 contract,..... despite the huge amount of Kina dropped on their expensive international law firm and expensive Australian Queens Council.

Would imagine a loss for PX will hurt the bottom line by some millions, 4 years of each pilot making a claim for up to the 20% of the salary that was had taken through "duress".

Management losses since the original court ruling,

the CEO has left,
the Chairman of the Board has left
the GM Flight Ops is no longer the GMFO...

So leaves one or two (including PNG's best HR Manager) maybe feeling a little nervous about a court appearance tomorrow morning.

I know where I will be at 930 tomorrow!!!!!!!

[geeup]

ANZAC Day ruling is very befitting & good luck lads.

[olderairhead]

Thought I would be clever and look up the result.
Went to Account Suspended (http://www.pngjudiciary.gov.pg)
More bills not paid by the guvment?

Oh well will have to wait for the usual reliable sources updates. :ok:

[olderairhead]

The decision is out and is not good news at all.

Those in attendance from their understanding believe the judges ruled the unions don’t have the authority to negotiate on the individual pilots regard.

They also ruled the unions have to pay all court costs including Poxies.

​​​​​

[balusnomore]

Very sad to hear guys.

So not much point in being in a Union in PNG then, esp if there is no authority for the Union to negotiate on behalf of you.

NOW Even less reason for anyone to work for Air Nogat seeing that you will be on your lonesome in any industrial style negotiations.

[olderairhead]

Update: see post 1373

Just received, link to a pdf of the decision. (give it time to load)

Court Decision (http://jmp.sh/IxtAHFl)

[mauswara]

I departed PX in July 2015.It was obvious back then that the PM (the very (dis-) honourable Peter O-steal,) had the justice system & police hierarchy in his back pocket.Brave move to proceed with the court challenge.It did look good,for a short time, but not in the long term, it now appears! Best thing that could happen now is “mass evacuation” back to the real world & leave PX to their own devices.It might be enough to push it over the edge.Good Luck to those still there.But the writing is well & truly “on the wall”!

[olderairhead]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/302x464/doc_apr_25_2019_10_501_page8_image1_08f64f26e80f5179744b3265 ac6a0eb46cc54bb8.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/363x484/doc_apr_25_2019_10_501_page8_image2_f61f319cca92451c81cf7fdf 0ceaf2bc5a5d9d33.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/363x484/doc_apr_25_2019_10_501_page8_image3_5f27ceec381fce920ce205d8 0ce3e669eb8e98dc.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/388x517/doc_apr_25_2019_10_501_page8_image4_e417ee3bbbf50379b1c78fcf 3a4e4383a856192c.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/363x484/doc_apr_25_2019_10_501_page8_image5_1a5e49cf7dc1899bfff4bc99 b5ab88762d45b4d9.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/363x484/doc_apr_25_2019_10_501_page8_image6_2d6f821f3feb3660b9d4f6a0 f93c776b4d3b1d49.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/363x484/doc_apr_25_2019_10_501_page8_image7_d7acb51ea8e499e977d147e4 b0cab42bcb4e3cc7.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/363x484/doc_apr_25_2019_10_501_page8_image8_fc5c62db6c4823cf07d3ff4c 93e9a63eafabb9aa.jpg

[tripelapidgeon]

PNG justice dealt. So sorry guys but probably inevitable.

[Duck Pilot]

The result isn’t surprising, good luck to the troops still standing over there.

[lucille]

I guess this is the end of Air Niugini. It’s impossible to see anyone choosing to remain and without crew they can’t operate. All this bodes well for competitors and new entrants. Fingers crossed there will be plenty of jobs with decent T&Cs for all those experienced and well trained pilots from PX.

[Duck Pilot]

Seems to be a flow of pilots from the neighbouring pacific island nations migrating to PNG, which I think may be their lifeline in terms pilot recruitment and retention for a while, particularly given the fact that some of the other island nations can train pilots.

Probably some creative motivation behind this fact that may actually be the grand plan.

[Loud Handle]

I agree with Duck Pilot. I hear there is no shortage of applications. Obviously PNG experience may be lost but even if PX pays zero they will come. In other parts of Asia (Pacific) people pay to fly.

[geeup]

Definitely won’t be the end of ANG but less motivation for the boys to stay.

I’m guessing it part of the final solution.

There must be close to 240 pilots at ANG. Broad spectrum of age & experience.

Load of Hevilift applications have been seen at ANG Haus. Guessing due to the lack of Kina and trouble paying salaries.

[krismiler]

On thing’s for sure, it won’t be the same. During the Australian pilots strike in 1989 the airlines were able to recruit well qualified and experienced pilots even if they were the S word. ANG will be scraping the bottom of the barrel with a very long spoon.

[-41]

"A completely predictable future is already the past"
Allan Watts.

[balusnomore]

Bit of an ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM moment that needs to be addresed I'd say....

So, (for what ever reason?????)....Air Niugini won the Appeal against both Pilot Unions...NAPU and PNG APA and even the pilot Piokole...
THEN NAPU & PNGAPA & Pilot PIOKOLE are judged to have to pay ALL THE LEGAL COSTS OF ANG, AND ALL THE COURT COSTS....not only the cost of the Appeal, but also the cost of the previous court cases that the unions actually won!!!

Someone mentioned that ANG has probably spend one or two Mil on it lawyers, QC's etc etc, so what if NAPU, THE PNG APA AND PIOKLE don't have that sort of money?.

So if the Unions dont have enough money, does that mean ANG goes the pilots that were members of the Unions that took ANG to Court. What about those that left after it started, but before the Court was finished?

And if ANG does go individual pilots , how focused will those pilots be wondering how much they will be hit up for, will any expat Union member even stay in country, and how many National Pilots will give it up and go home.

Freaking can of worms....and when it comes to flying is such an environment such as PNG. Pretty sure I wouldnt want to be a passenger going to the highlands in crap weather with the pilots wondering if the company was going to sue them for outstanding legal costs!!!

Yep, the ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM, needs to be addressed pretty quickly I say.

[gulliBell]

I don't think it's that complicated. The costs are awarded only against those Respondents mentioned in the Judgement. If they don't have the money, they don't have the money. What follows, they get declared bankrupt, the creditors including ANG share the spoils of what's left. Any shortfall, bad luck.

[ad-astra]

The AFAP had a $6.5 million damages decision hanging over their head for several years post the 1989 Dispute.
It was ultimately never demanded.

[geeup]

APA could make ANG profitable again if forced to pay.

[olderairhead]

There must be close to 240 pilots at ANG. Broad spectrum of age & experience.






Currently there are 94 Captains and 83 F/O's - total of 177

From the seniority list published 31 Dec 2017 they had 164. Since then they have employed and kept 20 Captains and 25 F/O's but 33 others have either left or got the sack. Of the 45 employed, 8 were reemployed pilots.

Given the increase in their fleet they are still in trouble finding and retaining crew.

And they "won", maybe not.

[DHC8 Driver]

*************THE END************

[Chop Chop]

The end?

More like business as usual. Resignation haven’t flooded in however applications keep coming in.

[krismiler]

The oldest game in town, join and get the rating log a few hundred hours on type then leave for something better. I doubt any of those applying are planning on a long term career at ANG.

[Duck Pilot]

There is a lot more to ANG’s long term survivability than Pilots being hired, leaving and all the rest of the propaganda flirted on this website.

Just remember that pilots are consumables globally - FACT! Hate to state this fact, however it’s reality at the moment, regardless of some kind of alleged global shortage.

Experience and quality is totally another issue........

[troppo]

Duck Pilot speak tru. I look at the number of pilots being churned out here in Fiji and those who go abroad to train and come back and I wonder where they all end up.
There was an unfortunate death of a trainee Fiji pilot in NZ last week who had a start date with FJ Link in about a month.
A lot of Fiji Nationals are ending up in PNG with what were previously unheard of mins. Like he said experience and quality are different...
There is a regional market for cheap, low houred, inexperienced pilots to fill seats....

[Duck Pilot]

Note that I wasn’t specifically referring to pilots from a certain region or background in my last post.

Sadly inexperienced and not well trained pilots may be getting into airlines such as ANG, these pilots could come from anywhere. Shutting down the pilot cadet scheme in which ANG had total control of the standard of pilots they where getting, when the pilots come back to the airline, provided an excellent foundation for ANG to get long term deducted pilots into their cockpits.

I just hope the safety and flight standards can be maintained in these challenging times.

[NCD]

Chop,
Every airline in the world, even the “two bit ones” receive heaps of applications from aspiring jet pilots… ANG wouldn't be any different. But it’s about QUALITY not quantity.

You may be getting a lot of applications from expats current on twin otters and Y12’s, Islanders, singles, instructing etc for FO slots (so tell me, what did happen to the drive to only have 5% expat pilots by 2020?), I wonder what your application rate and take up rate is for Quality Direct Entry Captains.

Presently ANG offers a direct entry Captains PGK 450, 308 pa on Level A (never to progress to a higher level), and when you churn the numbers with the higher PNG Tax, .40 c exchange rate, no superannuation paid, that is equivalent to an Aussie salary of about $137, 000.

And combing that salary with just 4 weeks leave a year, 10 days off a month (minimum of 4 needed to be used for travel to and from Domicile for any time at home), working in a third world country, overtime that doesn’t kick in until 70 hours (and by then you will have probably done 80 jet sectors and so fatigued you don’t really care about O/T), continual disrupted and absolute crap rosters plus plus.

Easy to see that salary is not commensurate with what is expected, especially when you look around and see that you need to do a lot less for $137,000 than a narrow body ANG captain earns who is away from home for most of the year. (Yes, Tours does sweeten the pot a little, but you have to be given Tours, (Tours are not a given, it is not even in the Contract, just given at the managers discretion ) and if certain elements of management have their way it wont remain on 100% of the narrow body salary - just need to look at Link PNG for that as the ANG Subsidiary pay around 80% full salary for those on Tour.

But if ANG Management is serious about rebuilding the Airline, making it competitive and reliable airline, an important part of the process will be treating pilots with respect and also realizing the value of experience, a bit like what ANG did prior to 2015 did.

So, Chop ‘ol mate, again I say it is about the quality, not the quantity of applications, and not only in the pilot ranks, but middle and upper management as well. The PX73 B 737 crash at CHUUK goes a long way to give support for that proposition.

[DHC8 Driver]

Anyone hear anything about the Air Niugini 737 that nearly ran out of fuel returning from Singapore last week. I heard it continued to POM despite being told the airport was closed due fog - 6 attempted landings followed by a final illegal auto land. Other aircraft diverted to cairns. Anyone care to verify this.

[mauswara]

Ouch! Was a (fuel) Mayday declared? What was NZB wx like?

[Kiwiconehead]

PX393 on morning of 5th May looks to have done a bit of base training on arrival in POM.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/px393#20640407

PX55 same morning diverted to CNS

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/px55#2063fbb0

[Square Bear]

Heard it got to the gate with around 1.1 tonne fuel in tanks.

"Probably impossible to make CNS after more than 1 APR in PY with full fuel X Sing, especially if there is INTER or TEMPO fuel required in CNS...."

Should have diverted after the first approach then....and this mob passes IOSA audits. Makes a mockery of such things.

[Office Update]

If all the B737 Singapore - POM stuff is true; has the flight crew been stood down? The Fleet manager/Chief Pilot I would assume has checked the FMS for the flight, downloaded the historical data.
Is there any QAS staff taking an interest?

Troppo in the 4th May post mentioned pilots from Fiji coming to PNG, OK if qualified but lack of experience is an issue. I thought that at least two senior CASA PNG FOI's/Examiners were both ex Fiji aviation, and if 83 year old dude is still there then he is Fiji orientated. I'm not picking on Fiji, but you get what you pay for and although B737 pay in Kina may not be up to desirable western standard, in some countries when you take the money 'home' it is a kings fortune. There is no level paying field in ANG, or CASA PNG. No apparent updates on the Chuuk accident as yet.

[tripelapidgeon]

PX 393 B737 facts all confirmed

In addition LVO autoland on a non LVO runway by non qualified LVO crew in an airline not approved for LVO is not only tacitly approved by the fleet office at PX but actively encouraged. Thus makes up for the lack of in flight operational support, the lack of a viable alternate and a minimum fuel operation.

​​​​​IOSA is just a box ticking exercise. CASA PNG are in PX's pocket and the various aviation authorities in the region are fearful of imposing any type of sanction in case they anger the PNG government and lose access to resources or allow the Chinese more influence in PNG.

Another accident in the making.

[WINJA]

If all the B737 Singapore - POM stuff is true; has the flight crew been stood down? The Fleet manager/Chief Pilot I would assume has checked the FMS for the flight, downloaded the historical data.
Is there any QAS staff taking an interest?

Troppo in the 4th May post mentioned pilots from Fiji coming to PNG, OK if qualified but lack of experience is an issue. I thought that at least two senior CASA PNG FOI's/Examiners were both ex Fiji aviation, and if 83 year old dude is still there then he is Fiji orientated. I'm not picking on Fiji, but you get what you pay for and although B737 pay in Kina may not be up to desirable western standard, in some countries when you take the money 'home' it is a kings fortune. There is no level paying field in ANG, or CASA PNG. No apparent updates on the Chuuk accident as yet.

Get what you pay for. How condescending is that? All operations in Fiji above the DHC are operated ETOPS, even the ATR.
You might be surprised at the experience and qualifications of some of the Fijians when it comes to managing an ETOPS flight. They do a lot of it and in modern aircraft.
Something about the attitude of your post and also the incidents of discussion tells me that perhaps you and your airline may just benefit from the skills that many of the Fijians are likely to bring.

[troppo]

Get what you pay for. How condescending is that? All operations in Fiji above the DHC are operated ETOPS, even the ATR.
You might be surprised at the experience and qualifications of some of the Fijians when it comes to managing an ETOPS flight. They do a lot of it and in modern aircraft.
Something about the attitude of your post and also the incidents of discussion tells me that perhaps you and your airline may just benefit from the skills that many of the Fijians are likely to bring.
yeah that may have gone right over your head. It wasn't condescending or about race. I was talking about the regional employment market and remuneration. Don't fall off your high horse though

[WINJA]

If you’re trying to convince us that NAN-LAX (ER in an A330) is a difficult mission, I disagree. Try Hagen in a 30 yr old antique (Fokker) any afternoon and you’ll see what most are referring to here, funnily enough none of the ETOPS experts you speak of got close (and yes some tried, but were not enough)....

The incident being discussed has nothing to do with Hagen (Though I wondered how long before mention of those "ten feet tall and bullet proof" heroics would come out). Try Hagen in a Cessna 206, the Fokker boys must have it easy. Horses for courses... However a flight from SIN to POM sure does have a lot to do with ETOPS, similar to NAN Lax. Shooting 5 approaches and then making a dodgy autoland is something that I haven't heard FJ falling for.
​​​​But then again they also don't have all that valuable Hagen experience.
Maybe that's the difference?

[-41]

The horizon looks very empty right now. Only good news is a couple of good people in management (against all odds). If they have any Captains left in the New year Link may well fare better than the mothership which appears to be heading for the rocks at full speed!

WINJA. you might want to read the entire thread, the crash was long overdue post 2014.

With so many Latent failures in Organisation / Management / Culture, it only took a single active failure on the line to result in a 737 loss. thanks Rei

[balusnomore]

Winja,

best not get into a "pissing contest" as to who is better or not, ....leave that to arguing about the Rugby......

BUT, to bring balance to the PNG/FIJI argument, I'll bring up TRIPELAPIDGEON (POST 1401) post....

"In addition LVO autoland on a non LVO runway by non qualified LVO crew in an airline not approved for LVO is not only tacitly approved by the fleet office at PX but actively encouraged."

The Fleet office mentioned consists of two, a Technical Manager who is also the Senior Check Captain (a Fijian) and the Fleet Manager (non Flying position an expat who spent many many years years flying 737's in Fiji). They were the management group presiding for the accident and the incident being discussed...the fatal one at Chuck and the most recent "unapproved Auto land incident".

ANG was overseen by a series of CASA guys who were Fijian, some who have returned to Fiji. (BTW Fiji Airways has just hired two extremely capable PX 737 Captains, who cut there teeth on places like Hagan).

Winja, every nationality has their Aces, Great, Good, Average etc, and I never took it that "Office Update" was implying Fijians were any different to any one else...just that ANG was trying to put some some pretty green pilots onto it jet fleet.

[WINJA]

Winja,

best not get into a "pissing contest" as to who is better or not, leave that to to arguing about the Rugby......

BUT, to bring balance to the PNG/FIJI argument, I'll bring up TRIPELAPIDGEON (POST 1401) post....

"In addition LVO autoland on a non LVO runway by non qualified LVO crew in an airline not approved for LVO is not only tacitly approved by the fleet office at PX but actively encouraged."

The Fleet office consists of two, a Technical Manager who is also the Senior Check Captain (a Fijian) and the Fleet Manager (non Flying position an expat who spent many many years years flying 737's in Fiji). They were the management group presiding for both incidents being discussed...the fatal one at Chuck and the most recent "unapproved Auto land incident.

ANG was overseen by a series of CASA guys who were Fijian, some who have returned to Fiji. BTW Fiji Airways has just hired two extremely capable PX 737 Captains, who cut there teeth on places like Hagan

Wing, every nationality has their Aces, Great, Good, Average etc, and I never took it that Office Update was implying Fijians were any different to any one else...just that ANG was getting some pretty green pilots onto it jet fleet.
Not a pissing contest, just a bit of balance, it's not the Fijians fault, they applied for jobs, went through the recruitment process and were offered jobs. If you don't like what you see, take your concerns to the appropriate chain of command rather than shooting the pawns.
​​​​​It's been many years since I flew in PNG and following this thread sort of confirms that some things don't change. The bravado and probably, the risk taking more than likely remains. Only the aviation authority which was then dominated by Australians and Kiwis seems to have changed. I'm retired now after a long career that started in Australia, PNG, Africa and Europe, so could easily be accused of being an armchair pilot. And yes after Australia, PNG certainly is a shock, but realistically it isn't as challenging as those trying to justify their position or stance would like to make it out to be.
However you guys need to take a deep breath and work with your managers to rebuild your situation, put your airline back on the right path. That takes flixibility, a much easier and productive way than the battle that you seem to be in now. The court case seems to be history, time to change tact.
​​​​

[DHC8 Driver]

I’m afraid it is all that bush pilot flying into places like Hagen with a get in at all costs mentality that has led to the current culture at PX.

[Office Update]

Balusnomore,

Thank you for response to my posting and your response above.

[NCD]

However you guys need to take a deep breath and work with your managers to rebuild your situation, put your airline back on the right path.

It is a sad fact that since late 2014 the Managers have had no desire to build or rebuild any situation, that is despite one or two advisors trying to get the Management to the table with the Pilot representatives. This is the complete opposite to what the Pilots and their representatives have tried to do.

It was hoped that with new Management Leadership, changes would start regarding the interaction, but with the exception of one introductory meeting with the "masses" there has been absolutely no evidence of that.

ANG Management set out in 2014 to destroy the pilot representation, (which was as far from militant as you could get),... and they appear to have succeeded, and in doing so have totally destroyed pilot morale.

[Duck Pilot]

Until ANG management realise that pilots aren’t a renewable commodity anymore, particularly considering the current global shortage of experienced flight crews on the market, they will never ever find a sustainable long term solution to unravel the disaster that they have orchestrated.

I know that consumer confidence (particularly from the corporate clientele side of the business) is being severely eroded due continuous flight delays/cancellations and safety concerns. Lots of corporate clients who have used ANG for years are now using other carriers, even if they need to pay more and add time to their journeys.

If another airline started operating on the POM-SIN-POM route on a very regular basis offering competitive airfares, ANG’s overall profit margins would crash overnight.

[chimbu warrior]

A change of PM this afternoon in POM with O'Neill resigning and handing over to Sir Julius Chan. When he previously served as PM Chan tended to influence what routes PX should fly, so don't be surprised if there are more changes to come.

[krismiler]

Is he back again ?? Talk about a revolving door.

[geeup]

Fake news.
When the Prime Minister resigns the Deputy PM is in charge ie Abel.
Sir J & O’Steal can cook up whatever they want but without the Governor General approval Abel is PM.
Westminster System.... not village court

[NCD]

Geeup,

Big statement you make...."the not village court" part that is!!!

Perhaps you should give Sir J Chan a quick phone and let him know that he is not the current (temp etc?) PM of PNG.

And while your at it, let the ABC and the other news outlets know that the current news feed out of PNG is fake news :).

[geeup]

Couldn’t get Sir J on the phone NCD, network issues etc.
However the Governor General answered and says he hasn’t sworn Sir J in so he ain’t the PM!
Constitution problems aren’t superseded by organic laws.
liklik sumtin sir J em gutpla man tru

[olderairhead]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/720x988/fb_img_1558905093484_8bd58cae75bcaf9877aaea3459f63049d62254e f.jpg

[geeup]

So with regards to the above who is sitting in the PMs chair?

Not Sir J.

ABC... EMTV... olgeta sumting... wrong / fake news

[Loud Handle]

Appointment of care-taker government, illegal: Former CJ | Loop PNG (http://www.looppng.com/png-news/appointment-care-taker-government-illegal-former-cj-84501)

If I was a betting man I would put my money on geeup.

[geeup]

Loud Handle these blokes are blind ABC followers.

Last I heard the ABC were still trying to work how their prediction of Labor’s landslide federal election reporting were so wrong :rolleyes:

[Kagamuga]

James Marape , new PNG Prime Minister

[NCD]

geeup,

I'll give myself a deserved "told you so" .... your knowledge of PNG politics is indeed better than mine (together with your trust factor in the ABC more attuned).

Will be interesting to watch someone from Hela Province run PNG.

So it now 8 Prime Minsters since 1975, I think AUS has had 10 in the same time? (admittedly Rudd twice) ....Does that make PNG Government more stable than AUS??

Anyway...maybe a jet service to Hela Province will come about. :ok:

[Kiwiconehead]

Anyway...maybe a jet service to Hela Province will come about. :ok:

There's only one jet that needs to go there.............

[krismiler]

AirNiugini to replace Cathay Pacific on Cairns route.

https://www.cairnspost.com.au/news/cairns/cairns-cathay-pacific-route-could-be-taken-up-by-air-niugini/news-story/4ccda1371d2be691f31a0b4fb6a8f55b

[Chris2303]

AirNiugini to replace Cathay Pacific on Cairns route.

https://www.cairnspost.com.au/news/cairns/cairns-cathay-pacific-route-could-be-taken-up-by-air-niugini/news-story/4ccda1371d2be691f31a0b4fb6a8f55b

Behind a paywall

[-41]

Today’s Cairns Post,

ANY requests by Air Niugini to start a direct freight and passenger service between Cairns and Hong Kong would be considered by Federal MP Warren Entsch.

Managing director Alan Milne said, while the airline currently stopped in Port Moresby on all its routes, determining a direct flight to Hong Kong from the Far North was not off the table.

“We can ask for rights to fly direct but because we’re not related to either Hong Kong or Australia, it would be more difficult ,” he said. “I think … you’d have to show it was in the national interest and the withdrawal of Cathay Pacific may well fall into that category.”

Leichhardt MP Warren Entsch said the Papua New Guinean airline’s bid “certainly came out of left field” , but he welcomed the move.
“We’d already said to Cathay Pacific, from a federal perspective anything they needed we would look at, but they weren’t interested,” he said.

“They’d obvious made a decision and were sticking to that. I’ve had no approach from Air Niugini but I’m certainly open to any request.

“I’m certainly part of a broader group which has committed to doing whatever we can to build capacity.

“It’s not just a matter of the Australian Government signing off and saying yes. Certainly that’s part of an approval process, but for Air Niugini to fly directly to Hong Kong, authorities there will have to give them access and also the PNG government has to make a decision. The Australian Government approval is part of a trifecta.”

Air Niugini is offering a freight and passenger service to Hong Kong via Port Moresby to replace Cathay Pacific which will end its direct flights to Hong Kong in October. Seafood exporters will be the most disadvantaged by the cancellation with frequent, direct flights to China critical to the industry.

[NCD]

Cant help but feel that MP Entsch is saying..."Yeah....Maybe....mmm ..NAH!!.

[geeup]

NCD nobody knows or understands PNG politics.

The real question is, will the Board change?
With a change in Government usually comes a Board change as jobs for the boys etc.

Seeing as the current Chairman is best mates with the now ex PM O’Neil I’d expect to a reshuffle of the deck.

Good to see the new MD making a name for himself.

[olderairhead]

Good to see the new MD making a name for himself.

And what sort of name is that geeup?
I am hearing lot's of talk no action along with a fleet manager predicting another crash. 4th floor is still demanding pass at all costs even tho those recruited are not safe.
Those with blinkers see a rosy future.

I suppose time will tell.

[olderairhead]

I am hearing that a very senior financial exec was "escorted" from ANG Haus, never to return.
This has now been confirmed and the pilots are celebrating. Said exec has been labelled a pilot hater, 2 to go they are saying.
At least the pilot group now have something to smile about.

[geeup]

The boys I know who are still left at ANG say he is doing a fantastic job and is perhaps the best MD / CEO ANG has ever had.

Is that not what you wanted to hear Olderairhead?

Case in point.. refer your last post.

Pass at all cost is rubbish, continue training at all cost is more believable.

[olderairhead]

This was posted elsewhere with reference to the recent MD/CEO pilot meeting. They are not my words.

Quote (http://www.pngapa.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=9091;topic=912.0;last_msg=9091)
Real positive bull****.
When are we going to get a real boss/CEO/MD?

Quote (http://www.pngapa.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=9090;topic=912.0;last_msg=9091)

is there light at the end of the tunnel?? Or another f en train. Fingers crossed this one doesn’t run us over !!!

And from an internal email.
The usual BS from the Boss.
We are going to have another crash if nothing changes with our recruiting and training coupled with the current Engineering issues.
My advice if you want to stay alive:
Stick to SOPs and this will ensure you work as a team.
You cannot guarantee this if you do not know the SOPs.

So, rosy to some and not so rosy to others as I said previously.

[Duck Pilot]

The new government has appointment a very appropriately qualified and highly experienced ex ANG Captain as the new Civil Aviation Minister.

[olderairhead]

And just when you thought this was all over be prepared for the next legal challenge........ The "slip court action" has been filed by the pilot group.

The battle may have been lost but the war continues.

Sooner or later justice will prevail.

[ad-astra]

Change of pace for a moment....
Any chance there is some Air Niugini survivor (crew/passenger) who has a couple of Air Niugini Paradise magazines that they want to offload?
Specifically #1 and #122 to complete my set.
I do have some spares if another lunatic collector is looking.

[olderairhead]

7.4% this year
https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/619056-2019-aviation-industry-employee-survey.html#post10496206

[NCD]

7.4 percent satisfaction.

Wow, ...So PIXIE got that high hey. :uhoh:

[packapoo]

That's just the ones that couldn't read....

[olderairhead]

New contracts 2019 - 2021 are now on offer to be signed.

From what has been sent to me nothing has changed. All conditions remain the same.

Even with a new MD things remain the same.

[The Big E]

New contracts 2019 - 2021 are now on offer

From my experience CBG was the best GM, both before and after his tenure. You could actually talk to the guy, and reason with him in a measured way. The Company made a lot of progress from the acquisition of the F28s and the B707s which helped the expansion of better services and opening new routes overseas.

Ya all take good care now.

[splat72]

Olderairhead, not everything remains the same, as it looks by this pic sent to me today the old requirement of avoiding volcanic dust just doesn’t matter anymore!

[splat72]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1599x899/dcecbb20_fbda_47b8_9c9f_8cbf36c7e68a_909cbe40487d86779d5c5c5 ff73b327e595e902c.jpeg

[Kiwiconehead]

this pic sent to me today the old requirement of avoiding volcanic dust just doesn’t matter anymore!
I got the whole vid sent to me.

Filmed from another Fokker - That's 4 munted Tays

[olderairhead]

For those that want a bit of light reading the following 2 documents are Slip Rule Applications.
Document 1 is the application for leave and document 2 is the application to re-open the case.

​​​​​​​Document 1 (jmp.sh/LtEQW9C) and Document 2 (http://jmp.sh/EoMRYhQ)

[NCD]

Seeing that the Fokker there would be coming close to taxy speed, that looks a lot of ash.

Pretty sure they’d be leased engines, so bet the lessor will be super impressed if it sees the pics.

[gulliBell]

Hoskin's, right? Looks like a couple of knots of downwind on that windsock for good measure.

[Kagamuga]

Can we safely assume PNG AIC will investigate?
What about CASA PNG, will the Director, or Malaki, or Jim, launch an investigation, ground the flight crew, and order the engines swapped out?
Nah! I think not …. it's PNG, the land of the unexpected.

[chimbu warrior]

What about CASA PNG, will the Director, or Malaki, or Jim, launch an investigation

Malakai won't rock the boat, and Jim has gone.

[Duck Pilot]

Which volcano went off, the one off the end of RWY 12?

The ash is also highly corrosive on airframes as well after moisture is added. Cold airframe in a warm environment and a good dosing of ash after landing, not to mention a take off 30 minutes later ain’t good. Obviously there were 2 aircraft exposed.

Wonder if anything was written up in the tin books?

[gulliBell]

I think it was the big one further down the road towards Rabaul....Uluwan....not that there is a road to Rabaul of course.

[Duck Pilot]

The aerodrome is closed due to volcanic ash according to a current NOTAM on Hoskins.

The volcano erupted a few days ago according to a media report on the ABC last weekend.

[Zhoottoo]

BUSINESS
Air Niugini Cancels Hoskins Flight
https://postcourier.com.pg/air-niugini-cancels-hoskins-flight/
Jul 2, 2019
Air Niugini’s fight, PX 7244/241 to Hoskins airport yesterday, was cancelled.
In addition, PX208 will not stop at Hoskins but will operate from Port Moresby to Lae and Rabaul.
This follows a review of Hoskins operations on Sunday which showed that there is still an unacceptable level of volcanic ash around the runway and taxiway.
Air Niugini will continue to review the situation and will advise when Hoskins Fights can resume.
“We advise passengers who plan to travel to Hoskins not to do so at this time as you could be stranded in Port Moresby.
Thank you for your understanding on this issue which is unfortunately beyond our control,” the company said.

[tripelapidgeon]

Seeing that the Fokker there would be coming close to taxy speed, that looks a lot of ash.

Pretty sure they’d be leased engines, so bet the lessor will be super impressed if it sees the pics.


Yep leased from Rolls. with RR care package wonder how that effects the T and C of the lease

[tripelapidgeon]

BUSINESS
Air Niugini Cancels Hoskins Flight
https://postcourier.com.pg/air-niugini-cancels-hoskins-flight/
Jul 2, 2019
Air Niugini’s fight, PX 7244/241 to Hoskins airport yesterday, was cancelled.
In addition, PX208 will not stop at Hoskins but will operate from Port Moresby to Lae and Rabaul.
This follows a review of Hoskins operations on Sunday which showed that there is still an unacceptable level of volcanic ash around the runway and taxiway.
Air Niugini will continue to review the situation and will advise when Hoskins Fights can resume.
“We advise passengers who plan to travel to Hoskins not to do so at this time as you could be stranded in Port Moresby.
Thank you for your understanding on this issue which is unfortunately beyond our control,” the company said.
Use the aircraft as the tester. Risk assessment??????

[tripelapidgeon]

Has the final report into 737 being "flown" into water been released?

Heard that the draft was not very complimentary to PX.
Maybe gone to the same judges that ruled on the appeal to sanitise.

[tripelapidgeon]

New contracts 2019 - 2021 are now on offer to be signed.

From what has been sent to me nothing has changed. All conditions remain the same.

Even with a new MD things remain the same.
Same blue lagoon in HR.

[NCD]

"............ launch an investigation, ground the flight crew, and order the engines swapped out?
Nah! I think not …. it's PNG, the land of the unexpected."

Bit of a tough comment ref the crew really....they would only be following directions from the 4th Floor, who in turn likely following directions from Waigani. (Separation of Power....mmmmm, doubt it)

PNG, yep prob the land of the unexpected, but I'd say that whatever ANG does is very much expected, unlike the "old days" when Flt Ops were considered as "pretty damn good".

Tripla, about the sinking of a perfectly good aircraft report....hope not, the airline needs a good wake up call, and a truthful investigation would highlight its shortfall and hopefully build up from there.

Take a freaking strong Leader to do it though, especially with the Politics that operate here.

[Lost in Places]

Does PX still have its engine "Healing Room"?

[gulliBell]

Volcanic dust injection probably needs the upgrade to the engine miracle room.

[Office Update]

Fokker 70 P2-ANS

Flightaware and FR24 shows the aircraft has not moved from Port Moresby since October 2018. Any word why this may be?

[NCD]

Lets see...perhaps schedule, crewing, spare parts (in and taken), in house C checks....maybe no engines!!!!.

Outside the pay grade of those at the coal face, but at least it is in Country, not like those that had to be on sold (deposit lost???) Outside Country.

[olderairhead]

For those interested I have received a copy of the non negotiated 2015 contract variations. They are in italics and are self explanatory.

Contract variations (jmp.sh/66kyBrh)

[NCD]

From the Age Newspaper...

" More than 20 people including pregnant women and children have reportedly been killed in tribal violence in Papua New Guinea.

Papua New Guinea's Prime Minister James Marape said those responsible for the fatal attacks could face the death penalty, warning the perpetrators “I’m coming for you”.

“Today is one of the saddest day of my life, many children and mothers innocently murdered in Munima and Karida villages of my electorate by Haguai, Liwi and OKiru gunmen,” Marape said in a statement on his Facebook page on Wednesday."


Further reporting https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48932361


Be careful flying in and out of the highlands, I'd say tempers might be volatile.

[Duck Pilot]

When has there ever been a time in the past 30 years or more that there hasn’t been a very high risk of getting robbed, shoot up, killed, raped and all the rest of it at any location in PNG!

Certainly barbaric acts with regards to the recent tribal fights, particularly when women and children are killed and effected. Totally disheartening.

[tripelapidgeon]

I guess the fleet office along with the blue Lagoon are all praying for salvation. Not!!!

[chimbu warrior]

Looks like they are evaluating Fokker replacements........

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/80156-pngs-air-niugini-eyes-e2s-as-f100-replacement

[minigundiplomat]

Looks like they are evaluating Fokker replacements........

It will take more than a change in fleet and media fairy dust from Bossman Alan

[Office Update]

Don't worry about E190's it will never happen ! There is no stronger airframe than the Fokker, proven in 40+ years of PNG Ops.
PX cannot afford to clean a cabin properly, let alone buy new aircraft.
Unless the Chinese government donate a fleet of E190's, you will need additional crew, to cover a transition, engineers retrained to another type, a close by Simulator, and the list goes on.
If I was a 'bean counter' I would say another F70 or F100 airframe a million $ at most, lease two engines from RR, we know they can handle volcanic ash from recent trials at Hoskins. No never-never payments so if a machine does not fly or breaks down the financial burden is minimal. Based on airframes available and fatigue life, the F70/F100 probably has another 30+ years left in them. Way to go... (from a financial perspective)

[geeup]

E195e2 needs 2km of runway.
Last time I was in PNG there wasn’t to many that long..

Back to Q400s

[Duck Pilot]

Any truth in the rumour that Q400s are being reconsidered again?

[olderairhead]

Any truth in the rumour that Q400s are being reconsidered again?

Rumour confirmed Duck.

Excerpt from a recent FSO:

SUBJECT: Dash 8-300 / -Q400 Positions

Applications are invited for Captain and First Officer Dash 8-300 / -Q400 common crew positions.

The Link PNG Board has recently approved the acquisition of two Dash 8-Q400 aircraft. These aircraft will be operated by Link PNG on scheduled and charter services.

[Square Bear]

"Applications are invited for Captain and First Officer Dash 8-300 / -Q400 common crew positions."

Isn't it a bit outdated to think that the -300 and -400 aircraft can be operated as a common fleet with common crew positions??

PX didn't when they operated the -400 last time (separate fleet even?)...and QF haven't, despite many continual years of operating the -400 alongside the "classic" versions.

[geeup]

Mitsubishi have presented a proposal for the Fokker replacement I’m told.

Must be Airbus turn now.

[splat72]

Mitsubishi have presented a proposal for the Fokker replacement I’m told.

Must be Airbus turn now.



Fokker doesn’t need replacing, just spend the money on the Engineering Dept so they can be maintained properly and the Fokker will give PNG another 15 years.
To many years of corrupt heads of departments, new planes Won’t fix it, PX will just have broken arse new planes in 5 years!

[Mumbai Merlin]

Air Baltic A220-300 in POM today

Demo for Air Niugini? Like the Embraer 195, I think in same league . Can't beat the Fokker airframe.

[olderairhead]

Here's a great opportunity:

IAC Global have teamed up with LinkPNG to offer DHC-8-Q402 Line Training Captain positions in Papua New Guinea.

LinkPNG, a subsidiary of Air Niugini, offer excellent terms and conditions on a 3-month contract with the possibility to extend.

For more information, please respond to this email as soon as possible with your CV, or call us at IAC Global

[Duck Pilot]

3 month contract, that sounds very attractive...................

[krismiler]

Link to the job https://www.iacglobal.com/jobs/dhc-8-q402-line-training-captains

No maximum age is listed so it might suit someone who's retired and wants a bit of pocket money. Commuting contract from Cairns with excellent (subjective) terms and conditions but $$$ not stated.

[Duck Pilot]

Allow another 6 months to get through all the immigration aspects and the CASA PNG licencing and approval processes.

Thought PX would already have a couple of ex Q400 check and trainers within their existing pilot group.

How many airframes are they looking at?

[olderairhead]

Am I missing something?

Latest FSO

SUBJECT: Carriage of Life Raft POM-HIR-POM sectors

In accordance with rule part 91.525 (c.) Carriage of life raft(s) is not required


91.525 Flights over water to more than 200 nm

(a) An aircraft that is operated on a flight over water must be equipped with one life jacket or equivalent floatation device for each person on board and stowed in a position easily accessible from the seat or berth of the person for whose use it is provided if-

(1) the aircraft is a single-engine aircraft, and the flight distance to shore is more than gliding distance for the aircraft; or

(2) the aircraft is a multi-engine aircraft that is unable to maintain a height of at least 1000 feet AMSL with one engine inoperative, and the flight distance to shore is more than gliding distance for the aircraft; or

(3) the aircraft is a multi-engine aircraft that is capable of maintaining a height of at least 1000 feet AMSL with one engine inoperative and the flight distance to shore is more than 50 nm.

(b) A single engine aircraft, or multi-engine aircraft that is unable to maintain a height of at least 1000 feet AMSL with one engine inoperative, that is operated on a flight over water that extends to more than 100 nm from shore must be equipped with-

(1) enough life-rafts with buoyancy and rated capacity to accommodate all the occupants of the aircraft; and

(2) a survival locater light on each life-raft; and

(3) a survival kit, appropriately equipped for the route to be flown, attached to each required life-raft; and

(4) at least one pyrotechnic signalling device on each life-raft; and

(5) one ELT(S) or one EPIRB.

(c) A multi-engine aircraft that is capable of continuing flight with one or more engines inoperative, that is operated on a flight over water that extends to more than 200 nm from shore must be equipped with the equipment specified in paragraph (b).

[LPS500]

Just this bit......

121.361 Flights over-water

A holder of an air operator certificate must ensure that each of the certificate holder’s aeroplanes configured for more than 30 passenger seats and operated over-water on flights where life rafts are required by rule 91.525 to be carried, is equipped with sufficient life rafts with buoyancy and overload capacity to accommodate every occupant of the aeroplane in the event of a loss of one raft of the largest rated capacity.

[Duck Pilot]

Part 91 requirements are also required as they are the foundation flight operations rules, unless Part 121 has a cutout specifically referring to the Part 91 reg. Only other way around it is for the operator to have a CASA PNG approval to operate outside the requirements of the regulations - exemption.

Trust me as I once wrote this stuff after I left PX🤡🤡🤡

[Office Update]

Interesting.
Needs clarification but I was under the impression no life rafts on Dash 8-400 between Cairns - Port Moresby - Cairns?
I'll admit I am way out of my depth but I was under the impression a certain operator does not carry life rafts between SYD and Lord Howe Island and possibly BNE to Norfolk in a Dash 8 ?

[Duck Pilot]

Read the regs, and read them again and again and again and again and more. Very hard to digest exactly what the requirements are. All written by lawyers, not pilots....

[Going Nowhere]

Interesting.
Needs clarification but I was under the impression no life rafts on Dash 8-400 between Cairns - Port Moresby - Cairns?
I'll admit I am way out of my depth but I was under the impression a certain operator does not carry life rafts between SYD and Lord Howe Island and possibly BNE to Norfolk in a Dash 8 ?

Correct. No life rafts on QLink Dash 8's.

[NCD]

GURNEY (AYGN) to HENDERSON (AGGH) is 580 nm, GURNEY to BUKA (AYBK) is 390 nm, and HENDERSON to BUKA is 400nm. Would have thought that if tracking DCT GURNEY HENDERSON on route B598 that the closest point to an airfield (BUKA - for the Fokker at least) would be at the halfway point, and then it would still be outside of 200 nm, - about 250 nm or so. Old guy, think we both missing something here.

POM to CNS no issue, quite a few airports between.

RE no life rafts on the QLink Dash 8 flight to Lord Howe, this link will take you to a pretty good Ben Sandilands 2011 Crickey.com article. https://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/11/08/why-should-lord-howe-air-travellers-be-at-greater-risk-drowning-in-a-ditching/

[Office Update]

NCD,
I think at the time the Dash8-400 came under Dickie Smith affordable safety/statistics ramblings
A concession was granted ?? on the basis that the Dash was capable of flying BNE to Norfolk, missed approach followed by engine failure and depress and then carry on to the approved alternate aerodrome
Airframe was a proven quantity, engine ticked all the boxes so to speak
Regardless of the comfort factor of flight crew, the bean counters love it when more paying pax sit on bums!

[olderairhead]

Old guy, think we both missing something here.

No, don't think so.
Methinks lawyers would have fun with this if there was a ditching.

Also hearing of a new rostering policy of office duty instead of being on reserve. Clever... ....... Not.

[chimbu warrior]

A multi-engine aircraft that is capable of continuing flight with one or more engines inoperative, that is operated on a flight over water that extends to more than 200 nm from shore must be equipped with the equipment specified in paragraph

Note that the regs specify more than 200 nautical miles from shore (i.e. land), not 200 nm from a suitable airport.

[NCD]

Did note that...guess there would be some attols on the route.

As posted just before, Ben Sandilands covers it well in his article regarding a different airline, AND he explains it much better than I could.

[Kagamuga]

PX Dash 8-200 P2-ANK suffered an engine failure at Mt. Hagen on departure yesterday 20th Nov, apparently …
Returned to land. Aircraft already back in POM according to Flight Aware

[Duck Pilot]

Sounds like a no brainer, crew done what they were trained to do. Good result!

Kilo is a 200 so it would have performed well out of Hagen, obviously they were able to feather the effected prop or it feathered itself.

[olderairhead]

They done did Duck. :8

[Mangi Fokker]

Reference the life rafts, it's only 160nm (roughly) from Woodlark Island to Vella La Vella Island. So the flight wouldn't be more than 100nm from some land mass at any stage of the flight.

[Kelly Slater]

A perfect example of "World's best practice."

[chimbu warrior]

And they have never put one in the water yet..................oh wait...........

[Duck Pilot]

4th floor issue a dispensation???

Exactly under who’s authority? I assume CASA haven’t relocated to the 4th floor of ANG Haus, or have they🤡

[splat72]

Apparently another proud moment for the PX 737 fleet into Brisbane this morning as a PX 3 decided to try and exit runway 01r via the closed old first high speed taxiway.

[olderairhead]

Maybe a certain 4th floorer could explain this comment re security screening to a fellow crew member... You'll have to stop wearing your explosive vest...

Very professional. :=

[olderairhead]

Word is money is tight so when pilot contracts are up for renewal they are not being offered another contract. Reason given is budget cuts.

Same if you turn 65, selective termination.

Seem to have heard all this before when the last cull started.

History repeating itself?

[geeup]

Olderairhead you maybe mixing the red & blue pills up again old boy.

Made a couple of calls to the wantoks and nobody seems to have heard of pilots not having their contracts renewed.

The 65 rule makes sense..

[olderairhead]

Olderairhead you maybe mixing the red & blue pills up again old boy.

Made a couple of calls to the wantoks and nobody seems to have heard of pilots not having their contracts renewed.

The 65 rule makes sense..

No took them in the correct order. Have the info first hand re not renewing the contract. He was called into a meeting on the 4th floor pre Christmas to front 3 who said gone due cost cutting.

A 76er was not offered a Fokker when he turned 65 as others have.

Maybe your sources will catch up when word gets around up there. Or they could read it here first. 😂👍👍👍

Happy New Year! 🥂

[geeup]

https://www.pilotjobs.io/pilot-jobs/B767-First-Officers-33500.html

https://www.pilotjobs.io/pilot-jobs/B737NG-First-Officers-34141.html

https://www.pilotjobs.io/pilot-jobs/Fokker-100-Captain-35164.html

[olderairhead]

You're not suggesting 4th floor tell porky pies are you? Never! 😱

[olderairhead]

Now hearing up to 5 more in the firing line.

[foam]

GURNEY (AYGN) to HENDERSON (AGGH) is 580 nm, GURNEY to BUKA (AYBK) is 390 nm, and HENDERSON to BUKA is 400nm. Would have thought that if tracking DCT GURNEY HENDERSON on route B598 that the closest point to an airfield (BUKA - for the Fokker at least) would be at the halfway point, and then it would still be outside of 200 nm, - about 250 nm or so.

AGGM is also suitable - Solair operate an A320 in there every week, so it will take the Pixie 73's and F100's.

However, it is still a bit out of the 200nm, so reverting back to 200nm from land, it can easily be done, using POM, GUR, MIS, MUA, HIR. Plenty of other islands along the route, but that one covers it.
Great Circle Mapper (http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=aypy-aggh&R=200nm%40aygn,+200nm%40aggh,+200nm%40aggm,+200nm%40ayms&DU=nm&SG=400&SU=kts)

[NCD]

Foam,

Think we all came to the conclusion back in NOV/DEC when the subject was the topic that the PNG regs allow a flight not to have life rafts if it is within 200nm from a SHORE. Seems one doesn't need to have a runway to land on, just a shore to put the wing on for the punters to walk from the water landing to the "SHORE".

Misama Island as a landing strip.. didn't a Citation II crash, burn with the very very sad loss of 4 lives back in 2010, with one major factor being that it couldn't stop in the available landing distance? Try that in a B738/7 / F100.

However, I see your point..being regulatory compliant is the requirement, albiet the very minimum requirement.

But realty is that we are just talking about putting a couple of life rafts in the overhead bins of a Fokker, ..sure a little bit of weight, a few disgruntled PAX that cant put their suitcase there, and a couple of gingerbeer signatures for the on and off, but in a 30 yr old Fokker, just the feel good factor of a couple of liferafts would be well worth it.

Anyway, kudos for bringing up an old subject, it is still a worthwhile one to discuss.

[Mumbai Merlin]

The latest addition to the Link PNG fleet has just arrived in POM

Dash 8-400 P2-PXQ, another in 2 weeks.

[geeup]

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/air-niugini-posts-dramatic-turnaround-under-new-leadership/

[Mumbai Merlin]

Link PNG, second Dash 8-400 has been test flown at Saarbruken, and must be close to delivery.
The first Dash 8-400 P2-PXQ has yet to fly, seen parked on the ramp at POM.

[kikatinalong]

RE Q400s

Why'd they get rid of them a few years ago only to reintroduce them now?

Just curious Kika

[Pinky the pilot]

Misama Island as a landing strip.. didn't a Citation II crash, burn with the very very sad loss of 4 lives back in 2010

NCD: Indeed it did, and most sadly one of the fatalities was a much respected contributor to this site.

RIP the wizard of auz.

Incidentally, I still have the last pm I received from him in my in-box. Just never got around to deleting it I guess.
I never will either.

[Kagamuga]

kikatinalong,

Easy answer: This is Papua New Guinea; "The Land of the Unexpected"

[chimbu warrior]

The first Dash 8-400 P2-PXQ has yet to fly, seen parked on the ramp at POM.

It was flying today with what sounded like a Canadian on the radio.

[olderairhead]

New CEO and nothing changes.

Yay they anounce a turnaround with a profit and in the meantime 2 Fokker Captains will not have their contracts renewed because they refused to fly an aircraft with a fuel leak. However National's accept an A cat redesignatedd as a B cat

True? Yes I have the internal email.

Chuuk 2 here we come!

Bravo CEO.

[Kagamuga]

From an extremely reliable source, it is alleged, rumor only, Link PNG, which is after all Air Niugini, apparently terminated a 40 years of service National Engineer, just before retirement to avoid paying out.
I hope there is no truth in the matter. It would be shameful if true.

[Mumbai Merlin]

So we have a situation where Link PNG is grounded for 14 days by decree of the PM and his advisors. I hope they use the time to spruce up the aircraft and give them a good clean.

[Mangi Fokker]

Provincial lockdown affects RPT. Government, police, military, medical charters and freighters will probably still operate.

[olderairhead]

​​​​​​ https://postcourier.com.pg/milne-leaves-air-niugini/

[Square Bear]

In an attempt to see how our Pacific region is going.......

Hear that PNG have fared well with the virus with just a handful cases.

And understand that Domestic is, or is about to resume operating, and under a new CEO.

International pax is obviously flat, but think freight on the Boeing aircraft to support the needs of an island State would be OK.

PIXIE is one of the ultimate airline survivors...maybe some of our companies could take a leaf out of their book..

[Cravenmorehead]

In regards Pixie being a survivor I think you have to compare apples with apples. Pixie is government owned and funded unlike Virgin. PX would probably have folded many times over had it not been state owned. It is supported for a very good reason, like Australia PNG needs an airline. I believe PNG Air is pretty much funded by state organisations too, but correct me if I am wrong.

[lucille]

In the end, it’s the hapless Aussie taxpayer who funds Pixie, albeit not directly. What is it these days? $300+ million a year of aid money being Hoovered up each year.

[WINJA]

In the end, it’s the hapless Aussie taxpayer who funds Pixie, albeit not directly. What is it these days? $300+ million a year of aid money being Hoovered up each year.

You'd be naive to not realise that It's an investment that ultimately pays for Australia.

[Square Bear]

Conoravirus could see Papua New Guinea, Indonesia become failed states - ABC News analysis (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-28/coronavirus-risks-indonesia-png-becoming-failed-states/12191850)

The article ends with ..."PNG has been judged by some to be on the verge of being a failed state almost constantly since independence, but rumours of its demise never really materialised."

Well, for what ever reason, PNG together with PIXIE seem to just "tick along"

[krismiler]

Hear that PNG have fared well with the virus with just a handful cases.

PNG is pretty isolated and doesn't receive many international visitors, once in the country it's not that easy to travel between towns and cities so they may have been lucky. However with the state of the health system they wouldn't know about it anyway. Hopefully a Chinese businessman didn't infect a hotel worker who went out to a bar and infected his friends, fingers crossed the virus stays out of the slums of Moresby and Lae.

[splat72]

Testing or a lack of will be a problem in determining the true Corona count in PNG, I fear that if it grabs hold there it could spread like wild fire as social distancing could proof difficult in a village environment.
There is also the problem of spitting Buai which will help the spread.
Fingers crossed for PNG this does not happen.

[Office Update]

The latest from PNG Air:

https://postcourier.com.pg/png-air-supports-papua-new-guinea-battle-against-covid-19/

[olderairhead]

TO ALL STAFF

PNG AIR TO REMAIN INDEPENDENT

Link PNG confirmed last month its bid to acquire an interest in PNG Air, in a move that will benefit Papua New Guinean Nationals and travellers.

Link PNG General Manager Alex Kia advised that the transaction is based on PNG Air remaining as a stand-alone airline that will price and sell its own tickets separately from Air Niugini.

Mr. Kia noted “Its is absolutely our intent that PNG shall continue to have two separate airlines, PNG Air and Air Niugini, and that there will continue to be a strong, competitive domestic market with options for travellers”. Link PNG intends that this will be achieved by means of a joint operating agreement between the airlines, which will ensure that PNG Air continues to service its customers under its existing brand and at its own prices. Cabin crew, sales staff and check-in staff will remain in PNG Air uniforms, and PNG Air's aircraft will remain in PNG Air livery. PNG Air and Link PNG will have separate sales and marketing functions, while still achieving the operational cost savings that will enable a stronger and more dynamic airline industry in PNG over the longer term.


Mr. Kia noted the key synergy benefits come from back office functions that can be more efficiently managed across the two airlines, and from a more efficient use of the two fleets. He stated “We believe there is a compelling case for creating a stronger, stand-alone PNG Air, across a wider network, as well as ensuring job security, and certainty for the travelling public. We will also ensure the savings created will be passed back onto our customers.”

Link PNG said it is committed to ensuring more affordable airfares; with the lower prices resulting from economies of scale and through the considerable cost efficiencies that are available.

Mr Kia noted the joint operating arrangements will allow aviation to survive COVID-19, and emerge from the other side as an even larger contributor to PNG’s economic growth and living standards by driving lower airfares and achieving sustainability.

Link PNG requires all regulatory and shareholder approvals, including from ICCC, before the joint venture is finalised.

Alex Kia
A/General Manager Link PNG