Air Niugini's subsidiary - LINK PNG

[ARPs]

I'm not sure you could call one Q400 a 'fleet' Mangi Fokker

[Mangi Fokker]

I think the PX AOC and suite of PNG CASA Approved manuals would dictate that. Although I'm not sure who occupies the Fleet Manager and Check Capt positions.

[DHC8 Driver]

I think the PX AOC and suite of PNG CASA Approved manuals would dictate that. Although I'm not sure who occupies the Fleet Manager and Check Capt positions.

Only one captain left on Q400. No check and training - no fleet captain. Must be great fun for him. But how can you call that a fleet.

[Duck Pilot]

P2-ANH was sighted in DRW late this arvo. Thought it might have been on a recruiting roadshow trying to tap into the fresh CPLs door knocking the GA operators.

[LostProperty]

P2-ANH was sighted in DRW late this arvo. Thought it might have been on a recruiting roadshow trying to tap into the fresh CPLs door knocking the GA operators.
It was at DPS earlier in the day - I thought it was going back to POM when I saw it but interesting that it stopped at DRW.

[Kiwiconehead]

On the way back from Fokker Services at Seletar - probably C Check, if it is a normal Fokker Services check then it will have been away that long PX have probably forgotten they own it.

[olderairhead]

Court case Start's tomorrow and is scheduled for 3 days, 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Will post updates as they come to hand.

[olderairhead]

Poxie are going in with the big guns - they have employed a Queens Council from Australia to defend them over the next 3 days.

Also seems like the internal cancer is spreading - joining the long list of resignations, 2 expat ops managers have now resigned and are returning to the sub continent.

As for flight cancellations they are a daily occurrence with no-one batting an eyelid as it is considered to be "ops normal".

With reference to the sole remaining Q400 the board has decreed that it shall remain in operation with it's one Captain. Interestingly he is off to do a sim check conducted by a Checkie who left the fleet 10 - 12 months ago and is now on the Fokker fleet!!

Poxie standards at their best.

[geeup]

Did anyone turn up to court today or has a new date been set?

[olderairhead]

Just in:

THE case went ahead as planned with the pilots taking the witness stand on the first day and the world's best HR manager and Toofar today.

All witnesses were cross examined.

Summations are tomorrow with an anticipated decision in "about a week"

I believe the evidence given by Looneygona actually worked in the pilot's favour but time will tell.

[olderairhead]

Final submission were heard today and decision "expected to be 2 - 4 weeks"

Aside from the case I was informed by a very a reliable source that 2 of the terminated pilots who called in sick recently had gained employment with opposition companies. Both have now been terminated. I am led to believe it is because poxie put pressure on the guvment to have them terminated.

Also have it from extremely reliable source that those companies have been told they are now not permitted to employ any pilot from poxie!

On a final note reports have been filtering thru that when flights arrive at FMS in the middle of the night there is only 1 light working on the PAPI.

FMS, which comes under USA admin, will not issue a NOTAM. Poxie is aware of this yet still roster flights knowing that there is no approach lighting system. Unfortunately flight crew do not have a leg to stand on by refusing to conduct the flights as there is no NOTAM but knowing full well that there is no functioning approach lighting.

If only the fleet office and CP could put pressure on the company to stop this madness before an accident occurs.

Ahh poxie flight standards at it's best.

[Kiwiconehead]

I hear the Q400 fleet is currently U/S in Wewak awaiting an engine.

[EBK]

A number of the terminated pilots have been recruited by the new airline Wantok Air formally TA.. and a number of pilots from Link & ANG have been for interviews in Dec/Jan.

[balusnomore]

EBK

Hearing the same as you, a real shame when the Flag carrying National Airline (i.e. Air Niugini) is so ill regarded that a start up such a Wantok Air may become the preferred employer.

But then it was also a real shame that the only way the guys could talk with Management about work conditions was to take the company to the National Court. .....btw any outcome yet.

[olderairhead]

Been told Judge is fairly quick in making decisions and expect maybe 2 - 4 weeks.

[Duck Pilot]

The national pilots lost their court case according Facebook.

Sorry Nogot hyperlink.

[balusnomore]

Ref the Duck post...not Facebook but one I found at Loop PNG.

http://www.looppng.com/png-news/px-pilots-termination-“not-reviewable”-51827

[olderairhead]

The insanity continues at PX.

Just received a pilots roster that has 87 sectors in 15 days of flying!! They do not have enough pilots and are flogging those that are there while 8 remain terminated because they called in sick.

Recent report also tells me that the "blue shirts" no longer work night shift only leaving the already overworked LAME's to not only do the maintenance but also the task of re-positioning a/c around the bays and hangars. HR at it's best.

But then again with a record being set recently with 9 out of 11 Fokkers U/S on the same day along with continual cancellations, the inability to recruit and not required to justify the non service to passengers, one wonders where it will all end.

[mauswara]

Airhead,seems at the current rate,it would have to end fairly soon?

[Metro man]

Just received a pilots roster that has 87 sectors in 15 days of flying!

15 X 6 sector days, those guys will be like zombies. I feel I've worked hard if I get 3 X 4 sector days in a month.

Next step is money runs out, bills and wages don't get paid and the creditors move in.

[Chris2303]

Next step is money runs out, bills and wages don't get paid and the creditors move in.

Or all the pilots leave.

[Duck Pilot]

It's owned by the guvumunt, the Kina will never run out - unless the right people are in power!!!! Election in a few months............

[olderairhead]

But the funny thing is crewnet still shows all 8 "terminated" pilots to still be on the roster and rostered on reserve as well as reports saying they are all still on full pay!

A HR coup? We didn't sack them so we can't be found guilty?!?

Loonygona can't be that clever can he???

[Metro man]

The PNG government is broke and can't pay wages on time for civil servants so it's ability to prop up ANG is not infinite given the eye watering bills an airline can generate.

Once insurance coverage runs out, international operations will have to cease. Expect to see very close surveillance from CASA and the other authorities in countries on the network in the meantime.

Unpaid fuel bills, airport charges and maintenance costs will soon have creditors circling over the carcass. Any leased aircraft will soon be repossessed.

With the difficulty in remitting money it would be very difficult to find any foreign airline to step in and get things back on track.

I doubt even the unmentionable one of the ME3 would be interested.

[Hugh Mungus]

Simon my Boy......seems to me you have not got the right stuff! Time to retire mithinks.

[geeup]

ANG will survive.
It will just shrink back to its previous size with cheaper cadet labour.
And expats willing to work on B Scale.
The Government will take that as a victory / success

[olderairhead]

So it is not that 104 pilots have left the company because of conditions that have caused flight cancellations but a worldwide pilot shortage!

Air Niugini says there is a global shortage on airline pilots therefore it is taking steps to review its terms and conditions with a view to retain those it has at the same time attract new ones.

The firm said there has not been any reduction in its requirement in terms of pilot experience nor will there be. Further that it continues to spend millions of kina on pilot training abroad with the latest batch due to return to the country later this year.

The airline was responding to allegations that had been raised by a frequent flyer and resource advocate Simon Ekanda.

Ekanda had alleged that the national airline Air Niugini has been in total disarray for the last six months.

Ekenda said that information he had received indicates serious problems that would compromise safety and performance of Air Niugini.

He claimed Air Niugini’s on time performance had dropped to below 70 percent while cancellation and delays of flights and the boarding of aircraft had become frequent.

He said these disruptions were impacting the airline users.

He had called on the Minister for Public Investment and State Enterprises and the Air Niugini board to clarify if indeed there is a shortage of pilots and if this is due to management issues.

The airline’s management in response confirmed that some domestic flights had been cancelled over the last few weeks.

It stated the cause for these cancellations included aircraft becoming unserviceable, operating crew falling sick, bad weather, crew reaching their maximum allowable operating hours, and airport infrastructure issues.

“When these issues occur Air Niugini has strict safety standards which are never compromised – it is always better to cancel a flight and protect safety standards than to take risk.

“The airline deeply regrets the inconvenience that cancellations can cause, and is actively addressing the root cause of the issue. However it will never compromise on safety standards.

“The airline regrets the recent spate of flight disruptions, but is confident that the steps now taken will see these rectified,” the management said.

The airline had stated that in 2016 it achieved an on time performance of 83 per cent of flights completed within 15 minutes of schedule, adding this was on par with world industry standards.

SOURCE: POST COURIER/PACNEWS

Why spoil a good story with fact.

[DHC8 Driver]

So it is not that 104 pilots have left the company because of conditions that have caused flight cancellations but a worldwide pilot shortage!

Air Niugini says there is a global shortage on airline pilots therefore it is taking steps to review its terms and conditions with a view to retain those it has at the same time attract new ones.

The firm said there has not been any reduction in its requirement in terms of pilot experience nor will there be. Further that it continues to spend millions of kina on pilot training abroad with the latest batch due to return to the country later this year.

The airline was responding to allegations that had been raised by a frequent flyer and resource advocate Simon Ekanda.

Ekanda had alleged that the national airline Air Niugini has been in total disarray for the last six months.

Ekenda said that information he had received indicates serious problems that would compromise safety and performance of Air Niugini.

He claimed Air Niugini’s on time performance had dropped to below 70 percent while cancellation and delays of flights and the boarding of aircraft had become frequent.

He said these disruptions were impacting the airline users.

He had called on the Minister for Public Investment and State Enterprises and the Air Niugini board to clarify if indeed there is a shortage of pilots and if this is due to management issues.

The airline’s management in response confirmed that some domestic flights had been cancelled over the last few weeks.

It stated the cause for these cancellations included aircraft becoming unserviceable, operating crew falling sick, bad weather, crew reaching their maximum allowable operating hours, and airport infrastructure issues.

“When these issues occur Air Niugini has strict safety standards which are never compromised – it is always better to cancel a flight and protect safety standards than to take risk.

“The airline deeply regrets the inconvenience that cancellations can cause, and is actively addressing the root cause of the issue. However it will never compromise on safety standards.

“The airline regrets the recent spate of flight disruptions, but is confident that the steps now taken will see these rectified,” the management said.

The airline had stated that in 2016 it achieved an on time performance of 83 per cent of flights completed within 15 minutes of schedule, adding this was on par with world industry standards.

SOURCE: POST COURIER/PACNEWS

Why spoil a good story with fact.

Great yarn but totally fake news. Pay and conditions at ANG are not the problem, although they don't help.

The pilots who have left ANG over the last 2 years just got sick of being treated like ****. It doesn't matter what you pay people, if you treat them like a subhuman species and work them like slaves, they will leave. It's that simple, but ANG management have their heads so far up their own arses they can't see that.

[balusnomore]

Like this one...

The airline’s management in response confirmed that some domestic flights had been cancelled over the last few weeks.

From some of the few guys still there, ""SOME???", "LAST FEW WEEKS???" :uhoh::uhoh::uhoh::uhh:"

Maybe Mr Ekanda should be invited to the Board..looks like he might have people telling him as it really is.

As to better conditions, those left there are due a new contract in just 35 days, and they have not hear one peep from the Haus as to what they will see in that contract. Not even any rumours.

[Mangi Fokker]

They may be waiting to see if the court condones or condemns their last contract.

[olderairhead]

Just been told that in their wisdom management have taken engineers off the tarmac and transferring them to the hangars to perform heavy maintenance .

Already PX don't have enough engineers to try and keep the fleet flying so this will just add to the delays.

Oh sorry, silly me, I forgot, there is a worldwide pilot shortage! :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[olderairhead]

A very reliable source tells me that the recent decision against the terminated pilots is going to appeal.

[-41]

PNG power has disconnected Parliment Haus for non payment.......ouch

[mauswara]

"Would the last one out please turn off the lights .......oh,ok,disregard !!"

[Chris2303]

Just been an item on TV News in NZ about the PNG Government not paying their bills to contractors

[DHC8 Driver]

The first to know of an airline's imminent demise are always the refuellers who start demanding cash. Watch this space!

[Metro man]

The first to know of an airline's imminent demise are always the refuellers who start demanding cash.

Absolutely correct, I found out from a refueller that my employer had gone into administration and our carnet was no longer valid. This was the first I'd heard about it, the GM hadn't bothered to inform the staff.

[olderairhead]

From The Australian Feb 17 2017:

Electricity sup*plies to Papua New Guinea’s Parliament House, the national police headquarters, and Government House — the office and home of Acting Governor-Genera*l Theodore Zurenuoc — have been disconnected for non-payment of bills.

PNG Power Ltd — the country’s monopoly, state-owned company responsible for the generation, transmission, dis*tribution and retail of electricity — said that these institutions owed about $450,000.

Their bills have not been paid since last November.

The institutions have been closed since they were disconnected on Tuesday, leaving them without lighting, airconditioning and telecommunications.

The parliament building has its own standby generator — as do many private businesses in PNG, since PNG Power’s supply is often disrupted by blackouts.

But the acting clerk of the parliament*, Kala Aufa, told The Post-Courier newspaper that the building lacked a store of fuel for its generator, and so he had to make such an order before this alternative source of power could be switched on.

Mr Aufa conceded that the parliament owed PPL $245,000, but said the payment of utilities had become centralised by the Finance Department, which took over that responsibility for all state agencies at the start of the year.

“We just get the bills and give it to them,” he said.

He expressed concern that the parliament might also find its telecommunications and water services discontinued, if those bills were not settled.

Opposition Leader Don Polye blamed the government’s “incapacity to handle simple funding and administrative matters*”. He said the country was suffering a cashflow problem as a result of a mismanagement of funds that was affecting the entire public system.

He warned that salaries would also be affected.

Australian economist Paul Flanagan recently warned in a blog post that “PNG’s inter*national economic situation is much more frail than the picture presented by the Peter O’Neill government’’.

“The International Monetary Fund calls the foreign reserves position ‘weak’. It has less than one third the recommended level in its international bank account*,” he wrote.

[LostProperty]

The best part of the electricity story is that the power company is 100% owned by the PNG government so they effectively cut off the juice to their owner. Not quite sure if anybody has much leverage in that particular dispute.

[Metro man]

There are some people who say that PNG got its independence too early. With its massive mineral resources as the driving force, PNG could easily be a rich developed country after more than 40 years as a nation.

Sadly it's just another failed state which can't even keep the lights on. Unfortunately it's on Australias doorstep rather than in Africa so stand by for an emergency assistance package.

The Chinese are busy recolonising Africa, perhaps they could sort out our northern neighbor.

[-41]

is the new accomodation tower opposite the Gateway completed ?
seem to remember Foo saying 2016......

[DHC8 Driver]

is the new accomodation tower opposite the Gateway completed ?
seem to remember Foo saying 2016......

Bawawahahaha

-41 you crack me up

[Duck Pilot]

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/world/its-been-agonising-government-puts-png-notice-over-millions-owed-kiwi-businesses

[balusnomore]

Duck Pilot,

would have to be a bit concerning when the Foreign Minister of a major Aid contributing country finds the need to go on Television in order to get the PNG Govt to pay its bills.

Makes you wonder how it will go for the PX guys if they win the Court battle or even how good or bad their upcoming contract will be, seeing that the PNG Govt owns Pixie.

[Chocks Away]

There are some people who say that PNG got its independence too early. With its massive mineral resources as the driving force, PNG could easily be a rich developed country after more than 40 years as a nation.


Exactly, Metro.
The Govt Ministers are too busy traveling o/s looking at what Casino ventures or "personal investments" and alike they can "invest" in. Sickening, the corruption.
So sad the billions in Mining royalties/taxes aren't being ploughed back into much needed infrastructure!

[-41]

O'Neill will have his hand out for more generous cash support from the evil Australians, we haven't been generous enough bankrolling the 2018 APEC summit and giving them $500 million AUD each year!

[nzaviate]

We must be more evil as NZ gives 28m each year!

[olderairhead]

Poxie is now trying to raise funds internally. The following is a copy of an internal email sent to all staff:

-------- Original message --------

From: xxxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxx <xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Date: 21/02/2017 11:22 AM (GMT+10:00)

To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Subject: ***PX-WEBMASTER***Aircraft Seats For Sale

Air Niugini Engineering Base have surplus aircraft seat assemblies available for sale

Price K25.00 per single seat

Triple Seat Assy @ K75.00

Double Seat Assy @ K50.00

1. Every interested Staff should inspect and select before payment.

2. Payment must be made at ANGH Cashier office and produce receipts to collect.

3. Payment must show the serial no of the Seat Assy purchased for payment records.

Regards,

xxxxx xxx

xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx

Telephone: (675) xxxxxx,

Email: xxxxxxxxxxxx

[troppo]

Transaction costs alone are probably more than K25/seat.

[olderairhead]

Just received from a reliable source, the lawyer for the 8 terminated pilots is filing an appeal against the decision against them in the National Court tomorrow. (22nd). He is adamant that "it will get up"

[olderairhead]

Sounds like the lack of engineers is hurting. Told that out of a fleet of 11 Fokker's, 5 were grounded on the same day last week along with 2 Dash 8's and a 767.

Also heard that management did not want to send an engineer on the 737's because of the shortage.

And after all these years PX has finally realised that they have too many 767 Captains and not enough F/O's and could save money by not flying 2 Captains together all the time. Rumour is that 4 of the most junior Captains will be relegated as Captains to the 737 fleet which is already overflowing with Captains! Suppose that 2 Captains flying together on the 73 is cheaper than 2 on the 76.

That and the seat sale will surely save em heaps.

Foo economics???

[Metro man]

These four will probably not be too happy about this and may look for new jobs. A shortage of F/Os is a bad sign as few airlines have trouble filling entry level jobs and normally they would stick around for an upgrade before moving on.

[DHC8 Driver]

These four will probably not be too happy about this and may look for new jobs. A shortage of F/Os is a bad sign as few airlines have trouble filling entry level jobs and normally they would stick around for an upgrade before moving on.

Hang around for an upgrade on what? All old bangers. The only type rating hanging around for is 737 and you would be looking at around 10 years for that - behind all cadets.

[PoppaJo]

When's the 787 coming?

[Sleeper88]

When Boeing designs a 787 replacement and that replacement has been in service for around a decade. Right about then...

[Mangi Fokker]

PX traded it's 787 order for 737 Maxs.

[Loud Handle]

I wonder how they will finance the 737 Max orders? Roll up, roll up, knackered old aircraft seats for sale!

[olderairhead]

After reading Papua New Guinea loses UN vote over unpaid annual contributions - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-24/papua-new-guinea-loses-un-vote-over-unpaid-contributions/8298486) and Australia bankrolls Papua New Guinea APEC summit costs, stymies China - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-01/australia-bankrolls-png-summit-costs/8228208) one would assume they will get either the Chinese government or the Australian government to pay for them.

[Sleeper88]

If the Chinese government end up paying, it wouldn't be surprising if they made PX give up their MAX slot and go for a Chinese alternative. Their money usually comes with strings attached...

[-41]

I wonder how they will finance the 737 Max orders? Roll up, roll up, knackered old aircraft seats for sale!
Over 2 years and 30 pages - my morbid curiosity is keen to know also !

[troppo]

If the Chinese government end up paying, it wouldn't be surprising if they made PX give up their MAX slot and go for a Chinese alternative. Their money usually comes with strings attached...

Yup...Boeing is all over that contingency https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing-identifies-site-for-china-plant-1477687939

[tripelapidgeon]

When's the 787 coming?

That order was CANX in compensation to Boeing pixie ordered 2+2x 737 max 8

[geeup]

Any news about the PX Crew Bus being shot up by raskols in Wewak or is that fake news?

[Duck Pilot]

Hope it wasn't Hugo's!

[olderairhead]

Any news about the PX Crew Bus being shot up by raskols in Wewak or is that fake news?

I have been told that the crew bus drove over the logs used for the road block as did a following bus with passengers. Shots were fired and hit the passenger bus. No injuries. Security car was following behind when the mayhem occurred.

Just another day in Paradise.

[olderairhead]

Foo has just written to all pilots to inform them that the 2015 has been in operation for 2 years and that for the majority of pilots their contracts will be expiring.

They have been informed that they will be doing one on one interviews commencing 1st March until 17th March.

It is being termed "an independent review".

T&C, who knows. Nothing has been provided.

No negotiating with the PNGAPA.

Not waiting for the court decision.

No guarantee of continued employment.

TANGFU.

[Chris2303]

Foo has just written to all pilots to inform them that the 2015 has been in operation for 2 years and that for the majority of pilots their contracts will be expiring.

They have been informed that they will be doing one on one interviews commencing 1st March until 17th March.

It is being termed "an independent review".

T&C, who knows. Nothing has been provided.

No negotiating with the PNGAPA.

Not waiting for the court decision.

No guarantee of continued employment.

TANGFU.
Why don't all the expats just quit?

[mauswara]

Chris2303, over 100 have done just that! (Thats just under 50% of total pilot number) over the past 2 yrs.I expect the remainder are awaiting the court case outcome,due very soon, to determine their next move.

[olderairhead]

Just been informed that there is a very strong rumour doing the rounds of PX that a shake up of the 4th floor is very imminent.

Another is that a F100 is about to be sold.

Got to pay for the fit out of Stulag Luft Towers somehow.

[saabsforever]

So they do actually own one then? I believe most of the fleet is leased not sure of the number of owned aircraft. This show is getting interesting. As I predicted a couple of years ago it looks like ang will return to what is was 20 years ago. A few tired fokker jets serving main regional ports if they get in the air at all. And international services cut to a minimum. But with very few expat pilots so the dream of having png national crew will be realised, but in a company about half the size it could have been. And with the economy constrained by the lack of reliable air services.

[Chris2303]

And international services cut to a minimum.

I wonder if that is why QF are flying their own equipment to POM - they can see the codeshare collapsing soon.

Come to think of it, if QF are aware of the above mentioned problems why are they still codesharing?

[tripelapidgeon]

Yes pollies will be happy no nasty expats

Interesting that other" national carriers" in other countries have gone down the same road with surprise surprise very little success

[-41]

This show is getting interesting.

Have they achieved the ambitious expat pilot target was announced back in 2014? I think it was 5%!

[olderairhead]

Previous numbers 1.1.14:

Nationals 134 Expats 136

Current numbers:

Nationals 110 Expats 55

Was 50% now 33% (Of total)

Expats 60% reduction from 1.1.14

[-41]

a gross reduction of over 100 pilots, must be running like a well oiled machine.

[balusnomore]

...getting sad to log in to state what was obviously inevitable some time ago.

History: In late 2014 the pilot group gets told by its management that it is in severe financial stress, pays lip service to the Pilots elected group, then presents an absolute crap conditions contract as individual contracts as a a take it or leave it item. Immediately pilot start leaving. :)

Forward to December 2015, the PNG GOVT gets given a 20 Mill KINA dividend from PX, and again in December 2016, the PNG GOVT gets given another 20 Mill KINA dividend.

Forward to 2017, the electricity gets turned off at Parliament House, the Courts, and many other Government buildings due to non payment of bills, PNG fails to pay its United Nations commitment, and the Press headline is that AUS AID will need to pay for security at APEC in 2018.

Guessing PX has no wriggle room re contract improvement with the contract due in 9 days time, a contract that none of the two pilots Unions (Nationals and remaining Expats) have been asked to consult with or provide input to .

So, PX target: 5% expats, MEH...try...EXPAT target: 0% expats.








.

[olderairhead]

Following on from Foo's one on one interview invitation the pilot's have heeded the advice of their lawyer not to attend while the court case is in progress.

On another issue Link still do not have a Manager Flight Standards since the departure of the previous one in November last year. So far their recruitment for a replacement has failed.

They even asked CASA Oz during the recent ramp checks in Cairns if they knew of anyone who wanted a job. Their recent ad campaign was a total failure so may as well utilise CASA, at least it was free!

[olderairhead]

With reference to Foo's letter the consultant employed to speak to the pilots about their contracts has left the building.

He is quoted as saying:

I’m going home this morning because I cannot see any point to sitting in the office as no one has or is coming to see me.

The union & their lawyer has told people not to see me.

The pilot situation I think is unrecoverable.

And to top that Link has emailed all Captains to tell them that they are basically training Captains but without compensation.

An excerpt:

In accordance with the requirements in CAR 61.31, Link has decided to designate all captains who have been checked to line as a captain for at least 12 months as captains who can provide command practice, and certify the candidate’s training record that command practice time has been completed.

Who needs training Captains!

[tripelapidgeon]

What sort of training system is that just ticking a box! It is the ICUS you have when not having ICUS all from the right hand seat.

[Duck Pilot]

Insurance company will make the final decision if ANG ever injure anyone or damage an airframe regardless of what the root cause was. First thing they will go for will be the pilot's training records.

[DHC8 Driver]

Insurance company will make the final decision if ANG ever injure anyone or damage an airframe regardless of what the root cause was. First thing they will go for will be the pilot's training records.

In the real world that would be true - but PNG is not the real world. Look at PNG Airlines aka. APNG aka. Milne Bay Air. How many have died on this "airline"? Just change the name and the traveling public soon forgets. I haven't seen any sign of insurance companies shutting that mob down.

[Duck Pilot]

Injure a corporate client regardless of nationality and they will come under scrutiny....

MBA and APNG never injured anyone on a.corporate charter, all their accidents were RPT or general charter to my knowledge.

ANG carry plenty of corporate clients on charters and RPT domestically and internationally. The waters haven't been tested yet and I hope they never will be, however if they were to be, the waters will become very muddy very quickly, if what has been posted above in relation to line training is correct. Hopefully it's not correct, although I know the information has come from a reliable source.

[olderairhead]

FYI a very reliable source emailed me a copy of the correspondence that was sent by RF to all pilots. It is fact.

I have heard the safety office may be looking into the legality of the proposal. My sources tell me part 61 cannot be applied if the company operates a check and training system.

[olderairhead]

http://www.emtv.com.pg/news/2017/03/suspended-air-niugini-pilots-trial-to-proceed/

A Supreme Court decision has allowed the matter involving eight terminated Air Niugini Pilots, to be heard by a full court.

The decision by Chief Justice Sir Salamo Injia, gave orders that the pilots resume duties and be put back on pay roll.

The eight pilots were terminated after they called in sick, days after university students protested for Prime Minister, Peter O’Neill to step down, in 2016.

It was exciting news for the eight pilots, who were present in court when the decision was handed down.

Chief Justice Sir Salamo Injia ruled that the trial will be conducted either in April or July.

Sir Salamo based his decision on the grounds that the trial judge at the National Court, Justice Collin Makail, did not consider the pilots’ submissions that Air Niugini was a state entity, despite having the characteristics of a private company.

The pilots were put off the payroll in February by the National Court decision.

This was because the court found that the pilots had private contracts with the airline.

However, the pilots have appealed to the Supreme Court to review the decision of the trial judge and the Supreme Court has accepted their appeal, allowing a proper trial to proceed.

Next is the directions hearing on the 3rd April for the actual appeal which is to be set at a later date.

[olderairhead]

Air Niugini has failed once again to honour a contract.

Four Central female pilots to start with CASA | Loop PNG (http://www.looppng.com/png-news/four-central-female-pilots-start-casa-55035)

In part:

In 2014, the four young girls were selected to undergo training at Nelson Aviation College in New Zealand after their training they are now on the streets looking for employment following a failed MOA signed between Central Provincial Government and an airline company for employment did not eventuate.

and

the Central Provincial Government sent them for training and after returning Air Niugini did not abide by the agreement for employment

[troppo]

Good on Wilson Sagati.
He's a good man. Once upon a time I did the CPL Air Leg test and passed, later to be told I had to do the PPL Air Leg, due to the nature of the operation...failed that and said 'so what are we going to do now?'. Here's your CPL :}

[Duck Pilot]

Maybe CASA PNG advised ANG that CAR 61.31 isn't an open ticket for any licence holder to act as a training captain, hence ANG have ran out of supervisory captains to do any training.

Just hope CASA PNG can someday give the FOIs some regular in country flying.

Wilson is a very good Director.

[olderairhead]

The worlds best HR manager has just written to all pilots inviting them to come in and negotiate their own conditions and to sign an individual contract.

Advice from the pilot's lawyer is that this action can be seen as contempt (of court?) and definitely not to sign anything as there is a court decision pending.

Definite lack of respect being shown to the court and the pilot's union / association.

Oh Lagona, you've done it again.

Some things never change!

[balusnomore]

Older guy

ANG aren't showing any lack of respect to the pilot Union/Association, they simply don't acknowledge the existence of such group.

As told to me, there is absolutely no interaction or recognition at all.....now just individual vs company.

Sounds like being a contract pilot, without any of the benefits of salary and conditions that go with those type of jobs.

[Mangi Fokker]

And armed hold ups increasing due to the tanking economy.

[Allan Lupton]

And armed hold ups increasing due to the tanking economy.
Not uncommon when I visited PNG in the early 1980s!
All this thread makes me quite pleased that we failed to sell our aeroplane to ANG as, although it could have been designed to exactly fit the PNG requirement, it needed to be operated by a properly professional airline (what doesn't?).

[mauswara]

Mr Al Upton,I was at ANG in the early 80's.What was the Aircraft type you were trying to sell? I can recall a BaE146 Model in ANG colours in one of the management offices,in fact it may still be there??

[Logohu]

If it was the BAE146 then NOT buying it is probably one of the better decisons PX has made over the years !
Totally useless in a hot and high mountainous environment and not a patch on the F28s they might have replaced (as East West and Ansett found out the hard way).

[olderairhead]

Just been given an interesting piece of information.

When the 2015 contract was forced upon the pilots there was no stabilising of the Kina to the AUD .

Back in 2015 the exchange rate was .4778, it is now .3998

This equates to a further 16% pay reduction on top of the 25% reduction that the contract gave.

So now with a 41% pay reduction and no stabilisation of the Kina or any pay increase in the new contract pilots will be tripping over each other to try and get a job with thus mob, especially knowing that after 2 years you can cash in up to 15 days accrued sick leave at 50% of daily salary and then pay 40% tax on that payment!

Oh Lagona, you've done it again!

[sundaun]

Were you the Yak 42 man during MB's tenure Al.? Airside Airniugini has always been a very professional airline.

[Allan Lupton]

Were you the Yak 42 man during MB's tenure Al.? Airside Airniugini has always been a very professional airline.
No, as has been identified above I was one of the 146 men. At one time when we had a lunchtime drink in the pub we had representatives from BAe, Fokker, Boeing, McDonnell Douglas and Airbus but I don't remember anyone peddling Yak 42.

Defending my stance against Logohu, we were looking to replace not just the F28s but some of the F27s. PNG did not include anything truly hot and high but did and does include some difficult operations which our aeroplane would have coped with but the F28 could not - nor would the F100 have done.

The airline was indeed very professional in those days, which so far as could be seen was due to a policy of appointing competant professionals to fly and maintain the aeroplanes without regard for where they came from.

[Duck Pilot]

Got any cheap Dash 7s for sale?

The ones that can operate without Pilots.

[sundaun]

In the mid 70s I acted as SafetyPilot on two occasions withANAcrews operating a YS11 for us whilst it was evaluated at the direction of RC. In the very early 80s the late Imbakey Okuk directed we pursue the DHC7 to cater for Kundiawa Wapenamunda etc. Up to that time the fleets had been gifted or sold at book value (2xQF707s) The F28-1000s (3 tankers) came ex Air Nauru at Brian Greys unauthorised behest and were ideal with a LCN of 16. In the early 80s we evaluated the Saab 2000 due to a LCN of 16. The Yak42 proposal I believe was only boardroom discussion! The 146 with a LCN of 19 would have been restricted due PCNs around the network in those days. Al, I was only a lowly Fleet Manager but thanks for the beers.

[olderairhead]

Not only does the new contract stink, now the airport will as well.

ATTN: All POM based staff,

Water to the aerodrome area has been disconnected by Eda Ranu for non-payment of Bills by the NAC.

Urgent water deliveries have been arranged for operational Facilities that have exhausted their stand-by supply tanks. Deliveries will begin shortly.

REGARDS,

IT SERVICEDESK

[Duck Pilot]

Back to the future!

[Seaeagle109]

Charley,

Care to give some examples of the improvements that have convinced you to sign up?

Any increase in base salary, say to what was in the previous contract with annual increases?

Return to 6 weeks leave?

Basings with rotations?

Anything, anything meaningful at all?

[splat72]

Charley Farley grow a pair of balls and stand with the rest of the pilots. The terms don't address the real problems at PX.
If you think signing will get you out of the right seat then you really need to wake up!

[balusnomore]

Hey Charley Farley,

Am hearing that only 3 or 4 have signed, guessing you will make the 4th or the 5th.

QUESTION: What is the game plan if none of the other 170 odd pilots don’t sign,…

ANSWER: Get jobs elsewhere...

ANSWER: NO MORE PIXIE....RIP :(

[olderairhead]

Hi Charley

On a recruitment drive are you? Normal advertising didn't work, don't think this will either.

[olderairhead]

Pilots' lawyers prepare appeal books

Pilots? lawyers prepare appeal books | Loop PNG (http://www.looppng.com/png-news/pilots%E2%80%99-lawyers-prepare-appeal-books-55880)

[Duck Pilot]

It's long long TBL warrior, or sometimes known in PNG circles as a misfit.

[olderairhead]

Actually it is longlong = crazy/mad

[tripelapidgeon]

The new Fokker contracts are more attractive, it looks like the company is finally trying to address some of the issues raised over the last couple of years and attempting to retain staff. I had a look at mine and am going to sign
I hope the rest of the boys don't talk to those signing up and risking and prejudicng the investment in both time and money put in to the pending court case against the company. How memories are short on how the company treated its professional pilots. The leopard never changes its spots despite the little sugar candies on offer. Child mentality in management will only attract the children.

[Loud Handle]

Charlie mate, as an ex Pixie pilot (albeit some time ago) who understands the current situation I fear you may have stabbed yourself in the arse.

If the pilot body prevail in their legal action against the company you will find yourself on substantially lower T&C's than your fellow comrades, brother and sister pilots (and possibly sent to coventry for your appalling behaviour). If on the other hand the pilot body lose I would think your comrades, brothers and sisters will be making a swift departure via the emergency exits and you will be left alone, c@ck in hand with your crappy "sugar candy" contract for a very long time.

Either way, I suggest you order two or three extra pairs of those Totally Workwear blue trousers as with the amount of time you must be spending on your knees you'll be needing them.......you may think about a bib too to keep that crappy shirt clean.

Disgraceful.

[olderairhead]

It is very interesting to note that the new contract is freely available to Fokker and Boeing pilots but Link Dash crew have to have a one on one with Toofar and Looneygona.

The ECP continues?

[olderairhead]

My sources tell me that the offer of the new contract has resulted in a stampede of 3 pilots rushing in to sign on the dotted line.

The lack of enthusiasm demonstrated by the other 150 odd pilots has left management scratching their heads wondering why they have not come in to collect the new contract.

So to save the pilots from walking in the heat to HR and avoid another stampede they have now decided to email the contract to each pilot expecting them to sign it with enthusiasm and return it immediately.

Really???

Oh Lagona, you've done it again!

[tripelapidgeon]

Rumour has it that the national carrier is having difficulties meeting its obligations to fuel companies as the government drains the cashflow. Wonder how the interestingly priced leases and maintenance contracts for the B767 and B737 are going? Will those nasty white knights from the south inject cash to save face and continue to prop up the corruption as the ever ending spiral downwards of the grassroots continues.

[olderairhead]

Slowly running out of money - PNG EMBASSY IN SINGAPORE CLOSED: OFFICIALS KICKED OUT - PNGBLOGS (http://www.pngblogs.com/2017/04/png-embassy-in-singapore-closed.html)

Also they have advertised again for Fokker Captains through IAC. Last advert was not successful, do they think things have improved for this one to be??

[LostProperty]

Rumour has it that the national carrier is having difficulties meeting its obligations to fuel companies as the government drains the cashflow. Wonder how the interestingly priced leases and maintenance contracts for the B767 and B737 are going? Will those nasty white knights from the south inject cash to save face and continue to prop up the corruption as the ever ending spiral downwards of the grassroots continues.

Out of curiousity who maintains the Boeings? According to the weekend papers, the New York embassy (didn't know there was one) is also under threat of closure.

[tripelapidgeon]

Out of curiosity who maintains the Boeings? According to the weekend papers, the New York embassy (didn't know there was one) is also under threat of closure.

Icelandair (via one of there subsidiaries) they also run the leases

[olderairhead]

PNG IS NOW LOOKING MORE LIKE A FAILED STATE - TREASURY MINISTER PATRICK PRUAITCH - PNGBLOGS (http://www.pngblogs.com/2017/04/png-is-now-failed-state-treasury.html)

See point 5

[troppo]

PNG IS NOW LOOKING MORE LIKE A FAILED STATE - TREASURY MINISTER PATRICK PRUAITCH - PNGBLOGS (http://www.pngblogs.com/2017/04/png-is-now-failed-state-treasury.html)

See point 5

Sad really. Paradise lost.
Wanim taim masta bilong ol kam bek?
I have the deepest sympathy for the grass roots people whose livelihood and future depend on central government making sound decisions for all citizens, not just the elite. PNG should have prospered for all, however a few have fd everything up. PNG/Africa...Same same but different. Beautiful country, beautiful people...apart from POM and the decisions made there :{

[olderairhead]

Talking of decisions, the long awaited decision will be handed down in the National Court tomorrow morning (Friday) at 9.30 am.

[Pinky the pilot]

Wanim taim masta bilong ol kam bek?

Indeed, Troppo. I was asked the above many many times back in the early 90's, by older PNG Villagers when flying into the Bush strips.

They remembered when there was a functioning District HQ, with a Medical centre and a School for the kids.

And a Kiap who would enforce the Law and take no s**t from no-one!:=

I have the deepest sympathy for the grass roots people whose livelihood and future depend on central government making sound decisions for all citizens, not just the elite. PNG should have prospered for all, however a few have fd everything up. PNG/Africa...Same same but different. Beautiful country, beautiful people...apart from POM and the decisions made there

I often wonder if anyone in the Australian Bureaucracy has ever done a search on who owns property along the Queensland Gold Coast, (and elsewhere) who the owners are, and ask themselves just where the money came from for the purchase of said property.:hmm:

Sad really. Paradise lost.

Em Nau!:{:{

[Duck Pilot]

What's the outcome of today's court decision?

[olderairhead]

Been delayed until 13:30

[olderairhead]

Finally the Court has made it's ruling.

The Judge has determined that:

2012 contract reinstated.
2015 contract unenforceable.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Seaeagle109]

The pilots have won. Well according to the PNGAPA website.

2012 contract reinstated; 2015 contract unenforceable.

Yeah, one for the good guys.

Question- what happens to the 3(or maybe 4) who signed? Well, who really cares!

Seaeagle109

"A man's character is his fate"- Hiraclitus(?), an old Greek guy

Sorry for the redundant post, the Old guy beat me to the draw.

[Loud Handle]

Charley Farley,

How's that "new and improved contract" looking now shags?

😂

[Duck Pilot]

3 or 4 that signed the contract will drive the honey truck

[splat72]

I think the boardroom lights will be on late tonite at "Air Niugini Haus"

[Loud Handle]

Gee Splat, late? So as it's a Friday the lights might be on until at least 1600! I wonder if these extended hours will filter through to the antediluvian staff travel department and HR?

[Duck Pilot]

JK for PM!!!!

[tripelapidgeon]

Hooray for the good guys. Sad for the good guys that left. Sad for PX that they lost the good guys because of idiots.

[tripelapidgeon]

Also maybe PA for PM not JK

[Mangi Fokker]

I hope the media tie the judges decision to the HR managers award for PNG HR Manager of the year (2016). Outrageous that the judges highlighting of industrial relations breaches and blatant disregarded of PNG industrial law should be squarely aimed at a HR Manager, that the PNG HR Institute saw fit to honor with their highest award. What a sad example of all that is wrong in PNG today.

[NCD]

The saddest thing is that the today’s result was totally unnecessary.

All that was needed was for PX Management to undertake honest and transparent 2015 Contract negotiations with two extremely reasonable Union/Association bodies.

However the “Worlds Best “HR Manager knew better, and railroaded an extremely unpalatable contract that was delivered on a sign it OR simply leave ANG and find a job elsewhere basis.

And while PX Management may have “convinced” each other that proper Contract negotiations took place, they could not convince any one else, let alone the PNG Supreme Court.

So for PX the ”chooks have come home to roost”, over 100 Expats and Nationals have left, taking towards a million hours of experience with them.

Those “brilliant HR tacticians” must have left Air New Guinea in a very precarious position indeed. With an added problem of how can negotiations between the Pilot groups begin with a HR management team that neither body has any respect for, NOR trust?

Tripelapidgeon, Gidday, you are so correct in your nomination for PM (not sure if that would be constitutional possible though) however referring to JK, he stood up hugely for the Citizen Pilots, especially after one or two of the other representative seemed to give up the fight very early in the peace. JK represented NAPU admirably.

So if not JK for PM, maybe member for WWK..."good luck with the campaign J."

Sadly, the Cadets were not successful in the court action. But that will come.

[balusnomore]

Mangi Fokker,
How the mighty have fallen!!!

Excerpt from the PNGLOOP, 2016
[I]“The national flag carrier, Air Niugini has been named the best state owned enterprise employer for 2015.

Chairman Sir Frederick Reiher, has congratulated the airline’s management, employees and unions for their hard work in securing the award.

The award was presented by the PNG Human Resource Institute at its national conference in Port Moresby last Tuesday, May 17, 2016.

Sir Frederick also congratulated Air Niugini's HR General Manager, Rei Logona, on being named the best individual HR Practitioner for 2015.

He said "This is a notable professional achievement for the airlines HR Manager who has provided important professional leadership, and working with all stakeholders in a challenging period for Air Niugini.

“The ‘best employer’ award in the state owned enterprises category was a significant achievement given the major changes in awards and conditions Air Niugini has had to implement.”

Sir Frederick added: “The fact we have been able to carry out a major restructuring of awards and conditions, as well as an overall reduction in employee numbers, without industrial disruption, and in the end in agreement with unions and associations representing the airlines employees is a source of pride to the board and management of Air Niugini,”

“Air Niugin has worked very hard to maintain good relations with all its 2,000 employees, and I appreciate the acknowledgement by the PNG Human Resource Resource Institute by giving the airline the award.”.

Well done guys, for persevering and refusing to be treated as a subservient class to management.

All done without strikes, work to rule etc and the only inconvenience to the traveling public caused soley by Management and not the Pilots...excellent.

[E&H]

This is a significant victory. For many, many reasons. For, the rule of law (at least in as much that it has been recognised that the PNG judicial system is prepared to apply it), for the one individual (CP, good on you mate) whose dismissal and subsequent appeal became the catalyst for the NAPU and PNGAPA to also become a party to the appeal...a victory for that lousy, abhorrent "B" scale pay that has become part of the aviation industry, a victory for the National pilots who were most affected by the "B" scale and most of all a victory for common decency and respect. Hopefully it also sees the removal of the Board and the CEO and senior management. This has been a lesson in "Lousy management 101"...and how NOT to deal with people...railroading and "wiping your feet" on people has never worked and it didn't work in this instance. Human Remains at it's absolute worst...

A great deal could be written about this whole debacle however the comments from above sum it up better than I ever could...

The saddest thing is that the today’s result was totally unnecessary. &...So for PX the ”chooks have come home to roost”, over 100 Expats and Nationals have left, taking towards a million hours of experience with them.

In any case for those pilots that stuck around PA, AF, AV and all the rest I hope now that some sort of sense and structure comes back into your lives and the carnage that was visited on the pilots of a once proud airline can be remedied.

[olderairhead]

The pilot groups have won the battle, not the war.

All parties (NAPU, PNGAPA and PX) now have to convene by 3rd of May, with the Industrial Registrar being the mediator, to put forward their positions before negotiations commence.

That is when the next battle will commence.

Hopefully the Industrial Registrar is as impartial as the Court.

[Cravenmorehead]

The pilot groups have won the battle, not the war.

All parties (NAPU, PNGAPA and PX) now have to convene by 3rd of May, with the Industrial Registrar being the mediator, to put forward their positions before negotiations commence.

That is when the next battle will commence.

Hopefully the Industrial Registrar is as impartial as the Court.

True the battle will be the next contract, they will be a lot more cautious this time around.
All the best and congratulations on the first win.
Craven

[NCD]

Cravenmorehead,

I am guessing the guys will be thankful for your congrats, as they would be thankful of all the support they have received from all the others.

But it is not about ANG being cautious next time, nor is it about the next contract being a battle.

It is about what ANG did in 2015, which the court found wanting. And that court has apparently ordered that 2015 contract as null and void.

That Take It Or Leave It Contract had pilots being hit with a cut of around 20%, which after 2.5 years will add up to an horrendous amount of money owed as backpay. Not taking into account travel, WDO, other conditions removed.

This is very serious, will be extremely expensive, and most likely has some serious implications on the future of ANG.

All for the sake of not even an attempt at negotiating, the arrogance of it all was astounding.

So it is more than simply considering the next contract negotiations, and will take some very cool heads on BOTH sides to negotiate a way through it.

But a big Hoorah for the PNG Legal system.

[olderairhead]

I have heard that costs were awarded against PX. PNGAPA should see a lot of money back in their account.

Also heard estimates of up to K20,000,000 in backpay.

An expensive 2 year exercise by the world's best HR manager.

[Metro man]

Being awarded the money is one thing, actually receiving it is another. Given the financial crisis in PNG, I wouldn't be holding my breath. The pilots my be dealing with an airline which can't pay instead of one which won't.

I would assume that the lawyers for ANG had the sense to get their fees upfront.

[olderairhead]

All parties were back in Court yesterday for the issuance of orders but unfortunately the Judges written ruling had not been issued to either parties lawyers so another delay.

Hearing is now scheduled for May 10th partly to give PX's new lawyers (yes they dumped the old one) time to familiarise themselves with the case.

[tripelapidgeon]

Just to note that PX have used the change lawyer tactic in previous court cases in order to delay or slow progress

[Mangi Fokker]

Have not seen any coverage of the Judge's ruling in either of the two PNG newspapers.

[Mangi Fokker]

Both partirs have submitted their road maps for a way forward and the judge has retired to deliberate. He will hand down his directions on May 12th

[Mangi Fokker]

Ian Shepard is Air Niugini's new legal counsel.

[olderairhead]

I have just received a copy of the transcript and the following is an extract of the decision and directions:

CONTRACT LAW – Employment contract - Essential elements of a contract – Employer requiring employees to sign individual contracts to replace industry based agreements – Employer not meaningful involving the employees’ unions – No meaningful negotiation leading to clear offers and acceptances - No real and meaningful opportunity given to employees to seek legal advice before signing contracts - Effect of – Void and unenforceable contract.

EMPLOYMENT LAW – Employment under industry based agreement – Terms of – Agreement to continue to govern relationships between the parties until parties negotiate and mutually arrive at new agreement – Parties failing to do so – Employer producing individual employment contracts on terms less better than existing agreements – No input and free acceptance of the terms of the new contract by employees or their respective unions – Employees given no real and meaningful opportunity to seek legal advice and consider terms of contract before signing – Some employees refusing to sign new contracts while others signed under protest and pressure to avoid financial and other hardships – Effect of - New contract not legally binding and unenforceable – Existing contract continuing to run until all the parties enter into meaningful negotiations and mutually arrive at a new agreement.

INDUSTRIAL LAW – History and importance of trade union movements – An employee’s right to be a member of a union – Purpose of – Collective bargaining and collective agreement – Employers precluded from approaching employees who a members of a union individually and separately except only through their union - Correct way to legally depart from or terminate an industry based collective agreement – According to the terms of the existing agreements or by mutual agreement of the parties – Sections 47 and 48 (2) of the Constitution - Sections 63 of Industrial Organisations Act (Chp. 173) and Industrial Relations Act (Chp.174)

Orders
61. Accordingly, the Court makes the following orders:
1. The parties are required to consider the foregoing decisions and the reasons for those decisions and resolve the issue of what should be an appropriate remedy or remedies for the Plaintiffs.
2. The parties shall also resolve the question of who should pay the costs and at what rate.
3. The matter is fixed to return to the Court on 3rd May 2017 at 9:30 for the Court to endorse any agreement of the parties on the matters specified in terms 1 and 2 of these orders or failing any such agreement, make the appropriate decision and issue the appropriate orders finalizing these proceedings.
4. The time for an entry of the orders is abridged to take place forthwith upon the Court signing these orders.


The hearing on the 3rd did not eventuate due to the appointment of new lawyers for PX and the transcript not being available. Hearing rescheduled to the 10th.

At that hearing the Judge received the documents from both lawyers and adjourned until the 12th so as to be able to become familiar with the position of all parties.

Not surprisingly PX did not agree with the pilot submitted position.

The Judge has now deferred the hearing until the 15th.

Stay tuned.

[olderairhead]

My sources have now provided me with a copy of both lawyers submissions and it is very apparent that there is no common ground.

The pilot's submission is for the 2012 contract to be reinstated, CP to be re-employed, back pay, costs etc as per the Judges ruling. All have been rejected by PX.

Today's hearing will be interesting to say the least.

Given the polarity of both parties an end to this conflict appears to be a long way off yet.

Will it be a matter of who runs out of money first or will the Judge order compulsory arbitration?

Either way no one wins.

Well done Rei. :ugh:

[faheel]

another typical air niugini **** up...list goes on and on and on...........

[olderairhead]

Initial reports are that PX got a kick in the nuts.

The Court Ordered that

1. The Individual 2015 Contracts are ordered Unlawful.
2. The 2012 Agreement is current until replaced.
3. Clarke is to be reinstated.
4. Defendants to pay Plaintiffs costs.

When I receive the full transcript I will provide more details.

[olderairhead]

Just received an unsigned copy of the draft orders from the Court.

It appears Pilots 1 PX 0. PX have no recourse

Will confirm when the signed copy is received.

[olderairhead]

The 8 terminated National pilots High Court appeal is to go ahead.

http://www.looppng.com/png-news/date-set-pilots-appeal-59050

[balusnomore]

So the company has a shortage of pilots, it struggles to attract new ones, and it has 8 on Court enforced payroll since September last year,... for refusing to see the Company appointed Doctor, even though they supplied independent medical certificates!!:ugh::ugh:

If it wasn't for the money their Union is handing over to the Lawyers they would have been gone long time ago.

Also told there are another handful of pilots who have been on suspension for the same reason, but not sacked. Sitting at home on pay with no indication of when they will fly again.

Brings to mind the Countries cultural practice of payback.

[Loud Handle]

Brings to mind the Countries cultural practice of payback.

I agree and unfortunately I think there will be more payback to come from the Fourth Floor. I doubt "management" will just roll over on all of this.

[olderairhead]

Not only is PX giving the pilot's the sh!T's, now a local food outlet has given several pilot's a dose as well. It was so bad a number ended up on a drip.

Management of this food outlet will also be running the food hall in the newly built Taj. A sign of things to come?

http://www.looppng.com/lifestyle/sizzler%E2%80%99s-investigating-cause-reported-food-poisoning-cases-59222

[olderairhead]

Keep receiving reports about maintenance problems. Last week 5 fokkers were on the ground sick keeping a couple of Dash's company.

Yesterday A Fokker departed Kavieng, had smoke in the cockpit emanating from the CB panel. Full emergency procedures completed with a return to land with no electrics.

No electrics - no anti skid. Both mains blew on landing leaving the a/c disabled on the runway causing closure. Took several hours for a rescue and removal.

Also hearing whispers about 767 issues.

Appears maintenance is still of concern given the lack of engineering support.

Things don't seem to be getting any better for PX.

[mauswara]

AirH, Your KVG air return made todays "PosGuria" ......" as part of the A/C's inbuilt safety mechanism,one of the tyres deflated on landing...." shud be plenti fesbuk fotos of "smokin flat tyres" doing the rounds by now!

[Mangi Fokker]

Cockpit smoke and loss of electrics on the Port Moresby to Pohnpei sector at night, 350nm from land would be interesting.

[olderairhead]

Re the above it was actually 6 Fokkers 2 Dash's and a 767 in haus sic, the 76 was awaiting an engine replacement. Old one bugger up liklik.

And re the decision they are still waiting for the Court to provide a copy.

tick tock tick tock time moves slow in paradise.

[Duck Pilot]

Give them a bit of time, its election time up here. Lots of hugs and kisses going on at 6 mile the other day I hear.

[olderairhead]

Still waiting for the court order to be made available and in the meantime pilots work permits are now starting to expire and the Dept of Labour will not issue new ones without a current work contract.

Pilots are reluctant to sign because until the court orders are available PX wants them to sign the 2015 contract.

Do you don't you.

Just another little hurdle.

[tripelapidgeon]

It seems the wheels of justice grind on ever so slowly in PNG.
There has been no acknowledgement by the company of the recent court decision. Not withstanding the decision I am personally very pessimistic that there will be any positive outcome for the pilots anytime in the foreseeable future.

[Pinky the pilot]

So then; How long before the whole Airline goes bagarup?:(

[DHC8 Driver]

People have been asking that question for decades

[olderairhead]

Today's update from paradise:

The Court orders promised for delivery on Friday were a no show and there are 5 u/s Fokkers today with extra flight cancellations due lack of pilots/engineers etc.

Nothing seems to change.

[tripelapidgeon]

Oh Logona you've done again son.

[olderairhead]

Seems the info I provided above was incorrect.

It was not 5 u/s Fokkers but in fact it was 8. Not bad out of a fleet of 11.

[tpng conehead]

If the remaining 3 depart on time, we have a 100% departure rate.

[LostProperty]

Seems the info I provided above was incorrect.

It was not 5 u/s Fokkers but in fact it was 8. Not bad out of a fleet of 11.

Sounds about right. Just had a look and there are currently two F100s and two Q300s in the air.

[faheel]

Foo still in charge ?

[olderairhead]

The 3 stooges (S, S & R) are still running the side show. Can't you tell?

[Kiwiconehead]

What about old King Julien, Mr Durrani, his stench still wafting thru the halls of power?

[olderairhead]

This will come as no surprise.

PX served an application to appeal. It was dated 8 June for a hearing on 21 June.

The application lists 37 points where "The National Court erred in ordering..." with each point detailing their argument.

Here we go again. :ugh:

Enjoy the ride.

[faheel]

PNG AIR owe a huge debt of gratitude to Foo for driving Air Niugini into the ground.

With all the cancellations etc they must be driving the travelling public to Pngair which is keeping them solvent .Without the debacle at pixi I seriously doubt they would be still in the air today.

Looking at the latest statements ( 1st half 2016) they lost 42 million kina !

It will be interesting to see their latest results:rolleyes:

[Sleeper88]

You could probably argue that if PX wasn't government owned and tax payer funded, it would have gone bankrupt sometime ago. The market conditions are the way they are because there is and always has been a monopolisitic market with one very large player who's survival is basically guaranteed by the taxpayer. You'll probably find that first half 2016 loss was largely attributed to the introduction of the new aircraft type.

[faheel]

"You'll probably find that first half 2016 loss was largely attributed to the introduction of the new aircraft type."

about half of that amount due to atr introduction costs.

k2.3 mil atr direct costs
k13.3 mil impairment of dash 8 lease costs
k5.0 mil early dash 8 lease termination costs.

whichever way you look at it both airlines are money pits...financial disasters for shareholders.

[socksfirst thenshoes]

"You'll probably find that first half 2016 loss was largely attributed to the introduction of the new aircraft type."

about half of that amount due to atr introduction costs.

k2.3 mil atr direct costs
k13.3 mil impairment of dash 8 lease costs
k5.0 mil early dash 8 lease termination costs.

whichever way you look at it both airlines are money pits...financial disasters for shareholders.



Yes you have to wonder who is signing the checks for the new ATRs. But seeing as they, PNG Air, have more on order they must be prepared to keep signing them, the cheques that is.
Both ANG and PNG Air are pretty much industry/government owned organisations now anyway- In an impoverished Pacific nation (for whatever reason!!) it is really the only way airlines can run safely nowadays.
I guess that in reality there is only room for one major company and a regional. Plus a few smaller charter companies helping out.
Simple; now to just sort the egos and self interests out!!!!!

[Mangi Fokker]

What makes you think they are being run safely ?

[socksfirst thenshoes]

What makes you think they are being run safely ?



Fair point

[olderairhead]

The crew shortage is starting to hurt.

Apart from advertising for Fokker F/O's in the National today an email was sent to all crew asking then to accept a short block for the next roster and to also consider reducing their leave as there is not enough crew to cover the roster.

That should create a bit more friction in the ranks as it has been reported one or two pilots will eagerly assist for monetary gain rather than support the majority in their fight against the company.

[faheel]

olderairhead,
there will always be some "jellymen" in aviation ie spineless people with no moral compass.

[olderairhead]

I have been informed that a Notice of Intention to Defend has been submitted to the Court on behalf of the pilot group.

The appeal, date to be advised, will be presided over by 3 Supreme Court Judges.

It is expected that this may occur around September.

[Mangi Fokker]

Airlines cannot operate without Fleet Managers, Check Captains and Training Captains.

[olderairhead]

One silly Captain replied to the whole mailing list within minutes of receiving the email:

I'm in boss. As long as I can be can be considered for August leave block.
No pressure. :ugh:

[splat72]

The appeal will be more damaging than just accepting the courts ruling, a lot of guys now are just ready to walk, write off the loss and get on with the next chapter in life.
Can't train without trainer...

[tripelapidgeon]

Cozy relationship between PX and CASA PNG will ensure that trainers etc will be approved without question. The so called Jellymen will fill these position not because of their ability and knowledge as trainers but their ability to bend over and take it you know where.
The never ending spiral to a serious incident or accident continues.

[olderairhead]

In their wisdom(?) PX have now amended the validity of CRM from 12 months to 24 months.
Would have thought that was pretty important in that part of the world.

Their reason: To improve on operational productivity
Translated: We don't have enough crew

[olderairhead]

Just been sent the crewing numbers for the Fokker fleet.

11 a/C with 2 more on the way. Total Captains for the fleet is 21 which includes 3 SIM check/training Captains.

Block rosters were 70+ hours with 60+ sectors. Things are only going to get worse.

[AerialPerspective]

The Jetstarisation of Air Niugini.
Why not the Ryannair-isation of PX... or, since nearly every low cost carrier that has been successful is in some way based on Southwest, why not the 'Southwest-isation'???

I know, you'll say because it's a full service carrier being cannibalized by a low cost move but surely the above did that to the whole industry.

[Duck Pilot]

Domestic services have always been operated no frills/budget at very premium prices, pay an extra k100 and you get business class with a sandwich! Still gotta cue up and be prepared not to get to your destination on time.

Terrible thing about this whole **** fight is a that all the good guys left have put a large chunk of their lives into the airline, with all their hard earned work being totally ignored by a small number of people at the helm.

[olderairhead]

Just received the following.

The appeal application has been heard and the decision was due to be handed down on 26th June but as is usual with the PNG legal system this has been delayed.

The legal team for the pilots have prepared the rebuttal for the 37 points raised should the appeal go ahead.

The Court orders for the initial case also have not yet been released.

As has been alluded to there is a general election in progress and everything seems to stop until this is over.

Word is it will be at least another 3 weeks before the election results are known and then hopefully the legal system will crank up again.

But then again, it is PNG.

[RetiredTooEarly]

Domestic services have always been operated no frills/budget at very premium prices, pay an extra k100 and you get business class with a sandwich! Still gotta cue up and be prepared not to get to your destination on time.

Terrible thing about this whole **** fight is a that all the good guys left have put a large chunk of their lives into the airline, with all their hard earned work being totally ignored by a small number of people at the helm.

I was one of the "originals" who joined from get-go in 1973 and it was a damn great airline back then! Of course we had a large expatriate component in all departments but inexorably over the next forty years the very common third world attitude of "get rid of the white fellas, we can do it better" slowly destroyed any degree of efficiency or competancy that we all worked so hard to generate!

We had TWO expats controlling the entire flight operations department back then but when I left 24 years later there were some 36 nationals doing this work and making a total cock up it!

Heartbreaking to see this once-great airline slowly slowly deteriorate in every aspect! I believe - not confirmed - that the entire check and training compliment was "localised" and all the "white guys" put back on the line!

There still hasn't been one loss of life in 43 years though a couple of domestic aircraft were trashed due Pilot error so the pilot group still seems to be holding up!

Some of the "local boys" who were once chucking suitcases around are now in management positions and I genuinely fear that one day soon an aircraft is going to be lost and no, not sour grapes, couple of guys I keep in touch with up there feel the same way! I'll be happy to be wrong!

[olderairhead]

The appeal case for the terminated 8 National pilots was heard on the 27th of June and they are eagerly awaiting the decision which at this stage is expected to be next week (maybe, after all it is PNG).

This decision will be final and will determine if they are to be reinstated or not.

The last Q400 has left the shores. Of the Q400 pilots, 2 are now on the 767, 1 has gone back to the Dash and 1 is suspended indefinitely on full pay.

Some brave sole has accepted a direct entry onto the 737 as Captain. Obviously he doesn't read PPrune.

Neither management nor the Fleet office made the current pilots aware of this appointment and several who were eligible, with 13 - 17 with Poxie, understandably are not happy. So much for repayment for loyalty.

Also yet to be confirmed is that the Court orders have to date not been served upon the company. This is possibly due the the appeal process but is only a guess at this stage.

Hard to get anything definite while the elections continue.

[mauswara]

Once again, OlderAirhead ,thanks for the updates.Its dragging on like "War & Peace".The remaining "drivers" must be utterly sick of it by now!

[olderairhead]

Further rumblings are being heard from guys who are now forcibly based in POM. They have put up with having to travel to and from their place of domicile on their days off and now Poxie in their wisdom(?) have decided that when they send a crew to Cairns for an overnight, any crew member who is domiciled in Cairns will not be provided with accommodation or overnight allowances even though it is an overnight.

This has really p!ssed off quite a few of the Fokker guys. Just adds fuel to the fire after the awarding of the direct entry Captain.

And just for a laugh, Poxie own some land and have advertised for someone to build some accommodation on that land for them plus they want the builder to fund it!

Gotta laugh sometimes......:}

[troppo]

Can't find a link to it, but it's on the 'I used to live in PNG' social media page.
Press release re departure of final Q400.
Some interesting 'spin doctoring'...
Begs a few questions to what isn't actually written.

[olderairhead]

This one?

MEDIA RELEASE
AIR NIUGINI ALL-JET OPERATIONS
Air Niugini is now an all-jet aircraft operator after the last of its six Q400 turboprop aircraft left the country on Tuesday 20th June destined for its new owner.
The ANG aircraft fleet now comprises 2 Boeing 767, 3 Boeing 737, 7 Fokker 100 and 5 Fokker 70, with another 4 Fokker 70s scheduled for delivery over the coming months. These aircraft operate both ANG’s domestic and international routes.
Air Niugini Chief Executive Officer, Mr Simon Foo said the Q400 aircraft delivered to Air Niugini by Bombardier since 2010 have served their purpose, however Air Niugini is now streamlining its fleet to reduce the number of different aircraft types and ensure commonality in its operations.
He said “When you have a common fleet of aircraft, you have common spare parts and common crew including pilots and cabin crew. This results in greatly reduced costs and increased efficiency in operations”
Mr Foo said Air Niugini is developing an aircraft fleet targeted to suit our current and future demand for faster and more efficient service, adding that the F70 aircraft has significant advantages over propeller driven aircraft types, and best meets the airline’s domestic and regional transport needs.
“A Fokker 70 is a longer range aircraft than the Q400 and the ATR , which is of significant benefit as Air Niugini continues to expand its services across the country and the region. The aircraft flies faster and higher than the turboprops, shortening journey times and avoiding adverse weather which is so prevalent in PNG” Foo said.
Air Niugini has so far received seven of the total nine Fokker 70 aircraft purchased, with five already in service and two more being prepared for service. The Fokker 70 aircraft operates key domestic routes which the Q400 used to operate, as well as existing and new international routes to Cairns, Townsville and the Federated States of Micronesia. Once the fleet transformation is complete, Air Niugini will have a total of sixteen Fokker jet aircraft, comprising the nine Fokker 70s, plus seven larger Fokker 100s.
Air Niugini’s subsidiary company, Link PNG operates a fleet of Dash 8 aircraft which mainly service the smaller provincial centres, as well as providing services for charter clients.
End….//
Corporate Affairs Department
Thursday, 06th July 2017

[LostProperty]

Interesting bit of PR waffle. Being a non-aviator am I missing something or is it just ANG speak? I understand that the Q400 is a big Dash 8 with cabin noise suppression. So they have got rid of the Q400s thus they can call themselves an all jet airline (big deal that) while Link make do with the remaining Dash 8s. Funnily enough though, there is still the odd Dash that flies around PNG using an ANG callsign. Perhaps this happens on those days when not enough Fokker crew turn up.

[troppo]

Olderairhead, that's the one.
'Commonality', 'streamlining', 'reduced costs', so why did they go down that path in the first place?

[olderairhead]

In reality they are still using the Dash 8 when:

1. There is no Fokker crew available because they do not have enough.
2. There are not enough Fokker's serviceable.

This is a very common occurrence at the moment and will only get worse when the next lot arrive of aircraft arrive.

[olderairhead]

No surprise, PX rated 5.1% in the employee engagement survey http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/596987-2017-aviation-employee-engagement-results.html

Summed up perfectly:

The Air Niugini result at the bottom is our lowest mark ever and this is not a technical anomaly by rating half a dozen angry employees. We had a solid number of contributors from our PNG friends and not one of them rated the performance of their management team anything above a zero. It may be a place to avoid if you are looking for work.

[balusnomore]

olderairhead,

"It may be a place to avoid if you are looking for work"......prob why more than 70 expats left in last two years. Guessing that is why after 2 and half years both the unions have a legal bill of closing on 1/2 mill kini to try and get what is right.

LostPropery...ANG got rid of some nice modern "BIG" Dash 8 (stealing your words) for some OLD jets.

ANG's competition are getting rid of old aircraft for new factory one, ANG got rid of new factory aircraft for old ones. Go Figure!!!

And I wonder which airline are cancelling more services.......and if you don't think politics are involved.......!!!!!!!!

[olderairhead]

IAC have advertised again. No takers from the last advertisement.

Do they really think they will get anyone, especially after the published results of the employee survey?

Maybe the world's best HR manager thinks no one reads PPrune.

[balusnomore]

Dunno about that Olderairhead,

hearing that maybe a RAAf dude is happy to join for a 737 gig, despite your best efforts to advise the world of the issues......and the ongoing Court stuff going on.

Admittedly no picket lines but, morals are morals.

[olderairhead]

I alluded to his employment a few posts ago.
No-one else is willing to take up the challenge.
And I bet he gets a warm welcome........not!

[splat72]

Also hearing from a fairly pissed off fokker capt that this direct entry hasn't flown for some time therefore will be doing a full endorsment, how nice of Air Niugini to revalidate him, why wasn't this bloke put on the Fokker or Dash.

Yes Balusnomore, no picket lines but that 4 letter word starting with "S" does come to mind.

[olderairhead]

He is ex military, China job he was awarded is now a non starter because the Chinese CAAC would not issue a licence because of lack of civil time. So in jumps PX to the rescue, disregards 13+ years service of currently employed pilot's, gives him a job with bugger all civilian experience nor PNG experience and there goes any respect for the company - not that there was any left. :D:D:D:D

Another great management decision. :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[faheel]

Thats ok mate, he will get his civil time and bugger off quicktime, I hear they also have taken a pngair dash 8 f/o with no jet time at all onto the 737:ugh:

[troppo]

Thats ok mate, he will get his civil time and bugger off quicktime, I hear they also have taken a pngair dash 8 f/o with no jet time at all onto the 737:ugh:

Apart from the last 36 pages, perhaps it is a lesser evil for a dash 8 fo, with PNG time, to seek career progression on to a jet. I'm not saying it's right or wrong but...

[DHC8 Driver]

Apart from the last 36 pages, perhaps it is a lesser evil for a dash 8 fo, with PNG time, to seek career progression on to a jet. I'm not saying it's right or wrong but...
How does one go from having no jet time to having jet time without progressing to a jet.

However, I am sure there are plenty of capable and qualified FOs in air nogat that could fill this position without having to recruit from out side.

[tripelapidgeon]

In the parlance of one of the senior pilots

Evacuate! Evacuate! Evacuate!

[DHC8 Driver]

Bit racist mate ^

Tailwheel ?

??????????????

[Metro man]

Advert in today's Australian for direct entry B767 first officers.

[Chocks Away]

They've been advertising through a few Brokers for some time now too, for various positions.

[olderairhead]

Still waiting for the Court orders and the decision on the sacked National's. Hopefully something early next week.

Meanwhile Poxie now wants to increase it's pilot numbers. Memo follows but in English probably means they are going to bypass everyone and instead employ direct entry B737 Captains.

Rebuilding Crew Numbers on the Air Niugini Fleets

This message is being put out to advise all crew that over the next 16 months as we try
to build capacity to replenish our crew numbers there will be an ongoing flow of
recruitment and training.
We will also continue to work on maintaining our internal crew promotions to provide
progression to all our current crew. Where we are unable to fill certain crew positions, in
particular commands, due to current constraints on certain fleets and after exploring
and exhausting all other internal means we will temporarily fill the position with a Short
Term Contract personnel whilst we work to internally replenish capacity.
This will be conducted in a coordinated manner so as to ensure we do not deplete
resources on the different fleets in maintaining the operating schedule.
Your continued assistance and cooperation at this time is much appreciated.

[-41]

The campaign to rid PX of pilots since 2014 has been tremendously successful, thus far.

[tripelapidgeon]

Still waiting for the Court orders and the decision on the sacked National's. Hopefully something early next week.

Meanwhile Poxie now wants to increase it's pilot numbers. Memo follows but in English probably means they are going to bypass everyone and instead employ direct entry B737 Captains.

Rebuilding Crew Numbers on the Air Niugini Fleets

This message is being put out to advise all crew that over the next 16 months as we try
to build capacity to replenish our crew numbers there will be an ongoing flow of
recruitment and training.
We will also continue to work on maintaining our internal crew promotions to provide
progression to all our current crew. Where we are unable to fill certain crew positions, in
particular commands, due to current constraints on certain fleets and after exploring
and exhausting all other internal means we will temporarily fill the position with a Short
Term Contract personnel whilst we work to internally replenish capacity.
This will be conducted in a coordinated manner so as to ensure we do not deplete
resources on the different fleets in maintaining the operating schedule.
Your continued assistance and cooperation at this time is much appreciated.
Who wrote this management speak????

Straight from the school of Sir Humphrey Appelby.

[olderairhead]

Sammy Toofar

[DHC8 Driver]

He probably learned those writing skills during his 3 day accelerated MBA in Fiji

[tripelapidgeon]

Sammy Toofar

Should have known better than to ask. Good at the gobbledygook and not much else.

[tripelapidgeon]

Very quiet on the legal front and with the incumbent political masters retaining power I see little hope for the boys except the knowledge they had a moral victory and they were correct in taking a stance against the bullies.

Pity it is unlikely that the rule of law will not be played out to it proper and rightful conclusion. :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::mad:

[mauswara]

Yes TripleApidgeon, Mr O'Neill back in.No surprises there, He may have gotten a few tips on "Incumbency" from Robert Mugabe on his recent visit!!(ACP meeting,May 2016).As usual,the Lawyers are the Real winners from these protracted Legal stouches.Good news is,still plenty of aviation jobs out there "in the real world".

[olderairhead]

Some bad news. The Court Orders are finally available http://jmp.sh/441HkQQ and it can be seen that the Orders only refer to plaintiff's 1 and 2, the PNGAPA is not mentioned.

In essence this means the Judge has not acknowledged them in the Orders.

The PNGAPA lawyer will now have to lodge an appeal against the Orders and argue that they should be acknowledged. The appeal documents are due to be lodged on Monday 7th August.

If successful then this appeal will have to be heard first and then the appeal by Poxie.

This is a major kick in the guts for the expat group who have suffered for 2.5 years while this has been fought out under the PNG legal system. To say that the group is feeling deflated at the moment is a massive understatement.

Poxie would be laughing.

But this is just one battle hickup, the war however continues.

Stay solid guys.

[mauswara]

Best sharpen your pencil (again) OlderAirHead, I have a feeling your "Wall Of Fame" is about to become active. No point hangin' around where you're not wanted.

[Duck Pilot]

The war had been lost before it even started.

It's very clear now that the saga will continue for at least another 5 years.

Meanwhile the Kina is still loosing strength.

[splat72]

I would say it's the last straw for most, all hope is gone.
Also heard a few trainers have stood up and said "enough is enough,no more training"
Good on them.

[Loud Handle]

"Giving up hope is sometimes prudent in situations where turning your attention elsewhere is necessary for ones own sanity. Continuing to pursue a particular direction where you invariably encounter roadblocks can obscure other avenues that may lead to achieving an objective.

In our culture there is a particular glamour attributed to those who persist, and win, in spite of limited hope for success. At the same time, having the strength to recognise when hope should be relinquished, and the courage to acknowledge your helplessness, can point you in an unsullied direction that is accompanied by new hope."

There are some great jobs out there in the big wide world for professional pilots like you guys.

[olderairhead]

I have been informed that 3 Fokker checks have resigned their position.

Could be to do with Toofar overriding the checkies for a new employee who has command time on nothing bigger than a bongo and no PX time and given a Fokker command. Checks said put him in the right seat, Toofar said no, persist.

Whisper is the checkies want nothing to do with the upcoming bingle. Scary stuff happening now.

Also told of continual mechanical failures. Dash wheel shattering in the wheel well after take off, Fokker brakes failing on landing, luckily not at Madang are a couple of recent examples.

Poor maintenance and inexperienced crew are a recipe for disaster.

Evacuate, evacuate, evacuate is the current cry coming from the expats visitors.

[balusnomore]

olderairhead

am told that the expats were not only not included in the orders from the Court, their Court Claim document was not even acknowledged even when it had been lodged in the court last year!!

also told that the National Union got given everything both Unions fought for, reinstatement of the 2012 Contract and damages for stress and suffering. Thats seem to mean that the National Union Pilots will be on up to 20% more than the current Expat A scalers and over 30% more than an expat on B scale.

Numbers wise, that will be 215 Aus Dollars plus bonuses for the Nation Union Pilots while the Expat will be on 166 Aus driving the same 737. Expat will have 2 weeks LESS leave, less a lot of other things and will need to commute on own time to and from in his own time, living in a compound next to the management office.

Feel so sorry for the guys, I can only guess how much they put into preparing for the Court case, the sense of being totally vindicated when they won the hearing they must have had, only to have the rug pulled out from under them in such a terrible way.

Not even there anymore and I feel devestated.

[got you sighted]

As a "Wall of Famer" if feel shattered for those who are left.

Hopefully this just turns out be some sort of clerical error that will be resolved.
If not, this is a travesty of justice and another blemish on the legal and political system.

Getting out of ANG and PNG should now be a priority for those whom are left.

GYS

[Kiwiconehead]

Those court orders are a travesty.

I was Engineering but just got on a flight and left back in 2012, rang John Roberts from the Qantas Club in Cairns to say I wouldn't be in.

Still got a few mates up there and it's time to leave alright.

[olderairhead]

My information is that it has so far cost the PNGAPA around K250,000 plus in legal fees for no recognition by the Court yet NAPU who have contributed very little are recognised and will revert back to the 2012 contract.

[DHC8 Driver]

I am so sorry for all the expats left in Air Niugini. I, like others here on this forum, got out of ANG a few years back when the mongrels turned on us.

While I also feel gutted by this news I am not surprised. I have been waiting to see how ANG and its corrupt political masters would screw the expats because, that they would, was always a forgone conclusion.

For those that still cling to hope of a good outcome I say the time has come to accept that you are not wanted. You are being used. You are effectively indentured slaves. If you are happy with that situation then stay. If not then you should leave now. The choice is now very obvious. It's up to you. But please do not delude yourself that there is going to be a good outcome for expats.

[olderairhead]

Sorry my mistake, it was not K250,000 but in actual fact K360,000

[fortybelow]

Having left last year (like many) I had fingers crossed for the guys who remain, and hoped that the judiciary would actually impart a fair verdict.

A complete loss in the case was always possible, but this half assed :mad: buggerance of an outcome is both surprising yet entirely predictable. As many have already said here, it seems the outcome was forgone. :ugh:

I would suggest that a bulky brown envelope made its way between those who had to much to lose and whomsoever made the decision.

It seems the only outcome remaining for those who hung on is to bail out, as many have already said.

[olderairhead]

Just been corrected, it was not K250,000 it was K340,000+ which makes the situation even worse.

Also remember that expats pay wise will be around 30% less than the Nationals when they revert back to the 2012 contract.

[olderairhead]

Just received confirmation that the 8 terminated National pilots lost their appeal.

[Mangi Fokker]

The judge's verdict found the defendant's breached PNG constitutional and industrial law. This finding should be ample for the industrial relations commision to take action against Air Niugini Ltd and correct those breaches.

[ARPs]

As one of the 'Wall of Famers' following the case I'm truely disappointed in the turn of events. But, not surprised! The joys of doing business in a corrupt developing country.

We all hope that it is a clerical error and that all will be rectified so that the three Plaintiffs are standing on the same ground. Unfortunately I do not believe this is the case. The court orders are too Black and White to be the case.

Political influence, loss of face, and corruption will leave these men high and dry.

[faheel]

more like a nice little sweetener went the magistrates way I would think

[josephfeatherweight]

What of the RAAFie who was apparently on his way there after a HKG gig fell through??

[olderairhead]

Here is an article about the terminated 8. Have a look at the responses.

http://www.looppng.com/png-news/supreme-court-dismisses-pilots’-appeal-64395

Also been informed that a directive has been issued from very high up in the political ranks to other PNG companies that if they employ any of them then they may have issues renewing their AOC's and expats work permits.

Who said PNG is corrupt.

As for the Raffie, B scale 2015 contract I am told. Clever Raffie. :ugh:

[mauswara]

I have worked with all the Capt's in this so called ANG "Terminated 8" I can't speak highly enough of them as Airline Professionals & "Bloody Good Blokes"! The "cesspool of corruption" that this Govt. & Airline has become is beyond belief! Best outcome is for as many pilots, of those remaining " to walk", shut the place down, & and start again from scratch.

[ARPs]

more like a nice little sweetener went the magistrates way I would think

Yes I'm sure some Somare's exchanged hands in the process faheel. That would fall under the corruption.

[olderairhead]

The engineering issues continue to escalate.

Received a report that a Fokker had an inflight shutdown ex Tokua.

[Kiwiconehead]

Received a report that a Fokker had an inflight shutdown ex Tokua.

I was quite impressed when I heard about the fingernail fairing departing the Dash courtesy of a tyre.

[tripelapidgeon]

The wheels have fallen off long ago at PX (excuse the pun)

She's over boys.

[balusnomore]

"The engineering issues continue to escalate".

And this engineering expertise being displayed on jurassic aircraft leased by PNGs Flag carrying airline, whose management somehow believes it has the ability to be the hub between the Pacfiic and Aust.!!!!!!!!!!

hahahahhahahaharoflmfaohahahahahha

[Loud Handle]

...... whose management somehow believes it has the ability to be the hub between the Pacfiic and Asia!

I have always found this to be a quite incomprehensible goal. PNG being a hub between Australia and Asia seems to me analogous to Germany being a hub between France and Asia......why would you bother? Fly direct and miss out an unnecessary stop/sh!thole (depending on the example you consider) and arrive hours/days (depending on the example you consider) earlier.

Casey Stoner's quip to Valentino Rossi after a particularly tempestuous Spanish MotoGP........"Your ambition outweighs your talent" could well be directed at PX management on this point. Perhaps PX management should concentrate on completing a domestic on time performance of better than 50% before looking afar. I know I know 50% is a lofty goal from current numbers but you gotta aim high!

[LostProperty]

Yeah, Stoner's sledge is applicable. Give 'em some credit though - the government has succeeded in making the place a hub for corruption.

[Mangi Fokker]

Answer me this, how does a foreign citizen with an out standing arrest warrant, legally enter Austrslia?

[tripelapidgeon]

Management are just the true believers' of the politicians and current PNG leadership. Whose stated policy is to become the Dubai of the pacific and that they are heading that way.Lah Lah land and analogies of Ostriches and heads in the sand come to mind or perhaps more aptly the three monkeys.