Jet2 Autumn 2014

[HeartyMeatballs]

Anyone able to tell me what LS require to get a command? What are the minimum requirements and what's the average time to command there?

[Ivan aromer]

Quote"Anyone able to tell me what LSrequire to get a command?" Unquote
A serious amount of being nice to the "right" people! A bit of ability might help, but don't hold your breath.

[fullforward]

Reading your lines we realize how psychopathic, presumptous and useless are the so called "pilot assessments" nowadays.
We all know many stories of people with solid, 20 plus years careers without a single lapse or fault that receive the unfortunate call or email : "sorry, you're unsuccessful...bla bla bla..." after undergoing lots of stupid tests.
What a waste of time and valuable resources.:ugh:

[SpannerInTheWerks]

No one has stated that they thought the application process was unfair or biased in any way.

However, in a way numerical reasoning tests favour those with a greater understanding of maths - and who are used to working with numbers.

Now I appreciate that all pilots have a general ability with maths and English.

It would be interesting to know whether those pilots who have succeeded with the numerical reasoning tests have an A-level or degree in maths?

If statistically there are more pilots selected with higher qualifications in maths than the norm for pilots as a whole, then the tests must be seen as biased.

This may not be proven but it would be interesting - maybe that's why experienced pilots who are perfectly competent as airline pilots do not perform well in the tests?

It's a thought - what do you think?

The recruitment process should show no bias in any way - it would be interesting to learn whether this has been considered or whether the tests are just 'off the shelf' with no particular regard for the applicants they are aimed at?

(I haven't applied by the way)

SITW :)

[2 Whites 2 Reds]

I was having a chat with a colleague about various airline assessments during a flight a couple of weeks ago. Apparently, some HR bod has drawn a direct link between a candidates ability with maths and their performance in the sim. :rolleyes:

Oh how we laughed, he has numerous maths based engineering degrees and I used to be a bean counter, yet both of us have had the odd 'off' day in the sim just like everyone else.

That being said, we're not the only professionals subjected to these sort of tests. The Jet2 tests aren't too bad anyway (or at least they weren't when I did them a few years ago) just a hoop to be jumped through.

[2 Whites 2 Reds]

You're preaching to the choir here 30n. I'm not a fan of psychometric testing full stop. I'm not sure what it really achieves or proves when recruiting someone for our particular skill skill set.

Recruitment should be about finding whether or not someone is:

A) Suitably qualified
B) Able to demonstrate the required skill to the required standard
C) Not a complete w*****

Once the above criteria has been satisfied then I can't see what verbal reasoning and maths tests really add to the process. But alas, I've given up getting frustrated with HR. Life's too short, it's their train set and, like Health and Safety, HR are here to stay.

I'm just grateful that, all being well, I won't have to jump through HR hoops again to get a job. (fatal last words)

[Twiglet1]

2w
In my gaff Flight ops set the requirements, HR manage the process, suspect Jet2 is not that different. Most also come with a recommendation, strange as most tell us how bad it is to work at gaff airways.....

[2 Whites 2 Reds]

Good to hear Twiglet.

But undoubtedly, many many flight ops depts have relinquished FARRRRR too much power to HR and alike.

I don't work for J2 anymore so my input is merely a thread drift. However, I will say that they have an enormous problem with support / admin departments such as HR and Travel Services having far far too much power and an inflated sense of their own importance. Infact, those departments alone are a big reason lots of people leave the business.

But, as I said, this is detracting from the thread subject at hand.

[SpannerInTheWerks]

2W2R

I'm not sure it Thread drift, with the greatest respect!

An airline is short of pilots, VERY short some say - so what happens (it seems) is that HR are 'allowed' to filter out prime contenders for what some might consider non-aviation reasons.

There might arguably, be a link between maths proficiency and sim performance - not brain surgery really. Like saying there is a link between doctors and IQ level!!!

Flying is a science-based pursuit to a greater degree, so just as HR might find there is a link between maths and sim performance they might also find a link between maths and musical ability?! (well known). After all the pilots in Airplane were able to fly on 'instruments' lol

Seriously, it will always be a bone of contention whatever you do - some might say that a recommendation is no better than a maths test, others would say far better.

I just wonder how many 'good eggs' have been rejected and how many are left to fill the slots which will come available?

Supply and demand wont be satisfied by passing or failing the online tests.

[arabian rancher]

I flew for them as a captain for four years, during which time I never failed a sim check, or had any arguments with management, and had no problem taking one of their aircraft over pretty much all of their routes from Norway and Finland to Greece and the Canaries.


I didn't have a clue what was happening in the on line maths test. It was all to do with production of clothing in a factory in Argentina or some such rubbish, all statistics.


With one minute before the end of the test I just randomly ticked answers for the last fifteen questions and presumably passed it as they interviewed me and gave me a job.


So, mathematical ability - pretty much zero. Ability to be a DEC with Jet2 - OK.


Was the test a waste of time? Yes.

[nitefiter]

How strange,
when i commented that the tests, in my opinion were "Stupid" i was labelled as, not suitable, a w***er and a crm nightmare, despite having over twenty years airline experience, and another five in corporate, never having failed anything and always been marked up on crm skills in any sim I've done. Ive flown heavies in the monsoon and all over the world as well, and now back on 737,s to some very challenging destinations.
Stop trying to sell Jet2 as something its not.. its not the RAF or BA or a flying club where you all go out and have a few jars after work, its an airline a very small one, which, by all accounts needs a lot of pilots. If it is as good as some of you make out then why are so many guys leaving?
I know a lot of experienced guys rated on type who are infinitely suited to your operations who have fallen foul of the tests or your HR Heavy Brigade at interview.
I passed your interviews, i just wasn't lured by the likely offer of a part time contract, 70% pay whilst line training and the chance to double my commute by being dual based in Scotland, thats why i couldn't be bothered to finish off the tests, but had i have done so i would have become a "top chap" overnight.

[Paddingtons wellies]

Just to clarify, type rated people offered 100% in general, with option of 70% (your choice). No dual basing - EASA prohibit it.

I am not selling the company line - for some of us it works and is a good option. No I am not management or ex-military.

From experience, the tests are a good filter.....

[nitefiter]

I think if i recall they sold it as being based EDI and fly out of GLA, or the other way around, that kept it legal, saying that you would "only" consider three base choices got you a minus re being flexible, 70% was the contract offered but advised to reject it and see, again a minus on the interview sheet, and a solid non negotiable 70% pay whilst line training. Quote "won't take long" unquote, and we all know thats a crock as well.
we will have to disagree on the testing.

[Ivan aromer]

Yes the T&C are infinitely flexible, depending on how many they require. Some time ago I had signed a single base contract and they changed it to dual base two days later. They were quite miffed when I declined!
As one of the CRM bods mentioned the goal posts are fitted with very efficient castors!

[111boy]

( great user name, how the hell did you come up with that ? ). Anyway appreciate your input, good to know, thought I would say thanks. Too many people on here are very quick to criticise . Not often we see well balanced posts that are helpful, I have moaned about the process and it does depress me, but thanks for the balance.....

I have no way of telling, but are lots of people leaving Jet 2? Above average attrition? Any thoughts why if that's true ?

[OhNoCB]

I can't comment on the company much because I haven't been working for them long enough yet to make a fair assessment, although it has been refreshing in a good way so far.

What I will say though is that I told them I would only take 1 of two bases, I was asked if I would be interested in 70% and I said no and then a couple of weeks after that I was offered a 100% contract in my first base of choice with no reduction in salary during training - 100% from day dot.

Line training was also not a prolonged affair not that it mattered due to the above.

Hope this helps clear a couple of things up.

[SpannerInTheWerks]

In terms of the Maths and English tests, I have been helping with recruitment for several years and I do not know of anybody who has not got into the company just because of these tests. They do have to be passed, but if everything else is good we will allow another attempt.

Absolutely. These tests are (arguably) important, but should not be the determining factor, with no second chance and no 'overview' of the candidate.

Over the years I can not think of a single case of anybody who has been declined just on the basis of the Maths/English tests, if all the pilot assessed elements have been passed.


Absolutely. Slight contradiction (?). It is the holistic approach that seems to work best - 'interview' day(s) - tests, interviews, team exercise, psychometric - all assessed overall.
Sim test - 'acid' test, can you fly and work as a team!!!

I hope Jet2 are not missing a trick here and failing perfectly good pilots who may just not have been up to speed in (uncontrolled) exam conditions?

A friend of mine had his wife's 'phone go off unexpectedly and despite the fact that she was at the other side of the house it was a distraction. Hard to guarantee a perfect performance in all cases (he 'failed' the tests by the way).

All the airlines I have worked for ensured exam-like conditions on their premises and to be honest the adrenaline building up in an exam room cannot be replicated in the comfort of ones home.

Easy to moan when you fail, but when it appears unnecessary it is all the more disappointing I'm sure.

[bombaydude]

Hi,
Can someone tell me about the 70% contract?
Many Thanks
BD

[twogoodstarts]

Think Thomson have got it spot on with regards the interview day.
Group exercise, individual flight planning and problem solving exercise and tech test in the morning followed by interview with a couple of pilots in the afternoon. If successful and not type rate then a sim ride at a later date..Very relevant and practical.

[SpannerInTheWerks]

Yep ..........

[vasi9]

Does anyone have any information on the Jet2 interview in Leeds, what questions, format to expect and any info on the sim check? Much appreciated.

[worldoffe]

One question guys.. Where you all provided with an automated mail saying your Reference Number right after creating an account on jet2careers.com?

[taxi_driver]

I thought recruitment for summer would be all done and dusted by now?

Serious question..

Do they have enough crew to run their summer schedule.

Do they have enough training capacity to cope with the turnover of pilots.

[happy eater]

Sim checked a week or so ago for the DEC 738, phoned day after saying that the sim check was successful but still waiting for the 'yay or nay'. Does anybody have any experience of how long they take to make a decision and get back to you or is it a case of no news is bad news?

[JM926]

Sim checked a week or so ago for the DEC 738, phoned day after saying that the sim check was successful but still waiting for the 'yay or nay'. Does anybody have any experience of how long they take to make a decision and get back to you or is it a case of no news is bad news?

Buddy of mine got the good news but was several weeks after hearing of a successful sim. So no need to be concerned for a while yet! Best of luck

[Red Hawk]

If you be passed the sim and interview, then you'll probably be in the DEC pool - basically seeing where and when they can fit you in.

[tonker]

Don't accept anything other than a full salary. Even BA can't recruit enough staff.

Companies making record profits and paying CEOs £29,000 pm net can afford it.

[tdk90]

Is there a summer only or part time option at jet2?

[Flying Wild]

Is there a summer only or part time option at jet2?

Part time permanent contract not so easy to come by. Summer only contracts definitely out there. Speak to Zenon.

[Twiglet1]

Tinker
If you want to earn 29k a month go do it. These guys are feeding your family and 24/7 commercial pressure.
What happens when you switch your engines off?. Jack all.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Having said that I did not take the job as the base they offered me was no good. My only complaint is that if all bases are not on offer, then don't advertise them as being available.

What a shame that it didn't suit. All I might say with regards to your "complaint" is that when the advert was created all bases might well have been available, however slots fill up and by the time you got there your choice if base had been filled. Jet2 like to have their guys n gals at their preferred home base, so I'm sure that your move away would have been only temporary and you would have been home sooner that you think, particularly with the current expansion plans.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Try again in a while, recruitment will be ongoing I suspect and more aeroplanes arriving mean more pilots needed.

[16024]

Normal.
Well done for taking the broad view and bothering to post it.
Mostly all you hear about is the bad experiences. Not just J2, it's just the nature of forums.
As Johnny said, maybe keep trying.

[highfive]

I attended their interviews recently and had a loverly hour long tour of their "call centre".

Then some loverly instant coffee in the corridor.
Then a loverly big room with a group excersise about walking on the moon.
Then a loverly video on how well they love their " customers" , the cream of the north I'm sure.
Then i was offered their loverly 70% contract , and was on my way home.

I have several videos of their psychometric and aptitude tests that i took when i applied online . Including all the 120 personality questions. If anyone is interested i will upload to you tube for your viewing pleasure 😜

[upthere]

What experience levels do those who have recently joined as DEFO have?

[whitemonk]

Variety, a lot of guys from Ryanair, Flybe and Eastern and a bunch of direct entry captains from the Middle East

[A and C]

I got my annual jet 2 call from the recruitment agency last week....... Thanks but no thanks says I.

But for those of you without jobs the fact they are still recruiting is good news.

[DADDY-OH!]

Everybody at Jet2.com happy?

[Paddingtons wellies]

Yup. Thanks for asking.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Yes thanks, a nice fat pay rise, extra bits and pieces offered, home base with mostly shortish days and a rostering team that always seem happy to help me out.

[tonker]

Me too. Did my last flight a week last Tuesday. And I still don't fly until next Thursday. Crewing helpful in a crisis.

Best job in the world

[Flying Wild]

I'm very happy thank you. I've had 5 flights this month and have 5 next month. Had a pay rise this month too! When I do fly, I'm home every night, so no complaints here.
I'd agree that the rostering/crewing teams are helpful whenever I've had to make requests outside of the bidding system.

Don't get me wrong, I know that the summer is coming and it's going to be pretty busy and probably painful for 3-4 months. The winter slow down more than makes up for it in my opinion.

[Check Mags On]

All happy here.
Nice off you to ask Daddy Oh.
Have a good weekend.

[zerotohero]

Yup happy also.

[HeartyMeatballs]

With everyone here talking of little flying and a recent chat I had with a CP who did one (!) day of flying in January and who had 12 rostered days off this month (no leave or anything, just rostered days off), do you ever worry that the music may suddenly stop one day? It can't be an efficient way to run the business. Will this be sustainable when the new aircraft start coming in? It wouldn't make business sense to have them (and their crew) sat idle for months at a time with the mortgage to pay on the airframe.

[tonker]

It will be busier next year no doubt, but in the mean time.......

Most of the airframes are bought and payed for.

[gorter]

Seeing as you are a current jet2 757 Manchester captain Daddy-Oh. Why do you ask if people are happy? Did the Norwegian application get turned down?

[Honiley]

So, a strange public out-pour of happy-clapping, that no other airline feels the need to do, all started by a current member of Flight Crew?!

It really is a childish, weird company!

[tonker]

What do you mean?

[Chesty Morgan]

I think he's just disappointed that we seem to be content and he couldn't get in.

I didn't think it would be long before these two to showed up with their usual spiteful behaviour.

[Big Tudor]

Ah, I wondered how long it would take for Honiley to pop up with his unique brand of vitriol and spite. Amazing how a supposed professional can be so, well, unprofessional.

[Flying Wild]

With everyone here talking of little flying and a recent chat I had with a CP who did one (!) day of flying in January and who had 12 rostered days off this month (no leave or anything, just rostered days off), do you ever worry that the music may suddenly stop one day? It can't be an efficient way to run the business. Will this be sustainable when the new aircraft start coming in? It wouldn't make business sense to have them (and their crew) sat idle for months at a time with the mortgage to pay on the airframe.

It is a slight concern, however the flying program over this coming winter is already busier than it has been before. No doubt that the company is looking into more efficient utilisation of crew and aircraft.

[Iver]

Are Jet2 still hiring into the 757? If so, is it purely based on need or does one require specific experience to be considered for it? I presume it is a MAN base only - correct?

[Flying Wild]

Yes. Yes/Yes. MAN/LBA

[RVF750]

Very happy, thanks for asking!

[Boeing 7E7]

Working for Thomson Airways, which has taken on a lot of ex Jet2 pilots recently, I can confirm they are all happy people. The pilots I've met recently seem to be even more happy now though.

[PressTheTit]

Normal Pilot, I feel your frustration! Similarly, I've had an application in with FR for over 3 years (CAE Parc) - kept it constantly updated. Ex mil, couple of thousand+ TP First time passes in everything and training report uploaded which they seem to be so keen on and nothing And constantly reading (in the other place) 200hr cadets being invited for assessment. My £30k obviously not good enough for them.

Horses for Courses me thinks! :yuk:

[Chesty Morgan]

PTT, have you tried calling them?

[PressTheTit]

Chesty M, I haven't with good reason. I seem to remember reading on here a few years back (or rater on the FR thread) that anyone who phones/emails them has their app "blacklisted". Probably total tosh but in the interests of not jeopardizing my chances I've refrained.:ok:

[Pork chop express]

After 3 years of trying do you have anything to lose by calling! :ok:

[Global_Global]

Just doesn't make much sense to me to travel the world looking to recruit when you have plenty of people on your doorstep. Give Zenon a call. They should get you in.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

They have a large supply of type rated guys in the UK waiting to move there from Ryanair. I for one know of 7 captains and 2 FO's at my base alone who have had applications in with them and never had a call, they are all type rated and ready to move over in 3 months.

Where are they from? Jet2 try to recruit people local to where they are from, even if they can't provide them with their local base straight away.

In answer to the question, I suspect that they are looking to take disassociated people who have discovered the green field of the desert/far east isn't quite so green that have moved there from their original home territory which is Jet2's back door and are looking to "get back".

Having said that I would suggest that you advise your colleagues to phone Jet2 recruitment and speak to the people there, they aren't like that Ryanair lot:\

[slowjet]

Looks like they haven't changed much. Way back, mate of mine logged an application, got lots of green lights and an inside track. He happened to be in Leeds and was hotac'd on their doorstep. He thought he would say "hi" and request a progress check and since he was right there, make himself available for any further questions they might have. He got a very shifty response, was handed over to some chick in HR who kept calling him Duncan (not even close). He returned to his ME Base and never heard from them ever again. Twots. Deserve what they get !

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Or maybe they didn't like what they saw?

[Flying Wild]

Looks like they haven't changed much. Way back, mate of mine logged an application, got lots of green lights and an inside track. He happened to be in Leeds and was hotac'd on their doorstep. He thought he would say "hi" and request a progress check and since he was right there, make himself available for any further questions they might have. He got a very shifty response, was handed over to some chick in HR who kept calling him Duncan (not even close). He returned to his ME Base and never heard from them ever again. Twots. Deserve what they get !

Your last comment is a bit harsh. I don't profess to know what goes on in the hallowed halls of HR, however I would like to think things have changed for the better. Instead of a yearly recruiting campaign, they have gone to year round recruitment. Supposedly to ease the training burden and spread it out. There are definitely people coming across from RYR, and also from the ME. How successful are the roadshows? That remains to be seen, but I'm sure they've got their reasons and have had to justify them to PM. They do seem to reject some good people, but as for any other airline, they have their 'bar' which candidates need to meet.

As I've said before, I'm quite happy with the way things are going. They've certainly developed for the better over the time I've been with them. There are now further opportunities for FO's to become ground instructors and SFI's. The Tech training manager is an SFO. The company seems to have grown up a bit with regards to FDM incidents on the line. Heard of an limitation exceedance recently which was simply down to a slip/lapse and was put down to human error. No fact finds/interviews without coffee/off roster required.

[slowjet]

Johny F ; missed the point. They didn't, actually, see him ! You aren't Duncan are you ?
Learned later that it was an almighty knife in the back job.
Flying wild ? Glad things have improved. Something endearing about a cosy flying-club type mix though. Back in the sandpit, my mate secured no less than three top jobs within a sneeze of returning there. Professional Selectors knew what they were doing and no-one called him Doooncan(sic) !

[16024]

@The last few posts: I've been in the industry for 25 years, and have rarely seen a good result from turning up at the door of an airline. They just don't like it, and it's understandable.
It's just what it is. You can't single out Jet2 for this.

[South Prince]

I've been given the access for the initial online test. The system just wouldn't proceed further after the first set of questions (can't even remember the subject ); web connection good. Tried hard to contact them but the only answer I got later on was a confirmation I did not pass the on line test having failed to complete the remaining sections of the test. What to say? No wonder they are conducting road shows around to crew aeroplanes. Who's in charge of wasting time and resources?

[Flap40]

757 is as you say, only LBA or MAN based. It does have the advantage of being over 100T so if you have aspirations of a direct entry command in the sandpit then a command on the 757 will give you relevant experience.

If you don't care about the gulf or want to be based somewhere other than MAN/LBA then take the 737.

By default, due to the numbers, the 737 has a greater range of destinations.

[Marcus Absent]

Depends if your any good:O

[apron]

What's the chances of a BFS base you think? 👍🏻

[DooblerChina]

BFS not a main base, I think it's crewed by Canadians. I'd be amazed if this changes in the near future.

[Chesty Morgan]

BFS is a main base. Never seen a Candian there either!

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

What about the time to command on the 757?

Depends on how many hours/experience you have when you join. The 757 fleet don't do many hours over the year, the majority of their hours come from June to September, great if you aren't bothered about building hours, not so good if you need to gain hours for command upgrade. The 737 do about double the hours than the 757, so if you join at the same time it will be roughly twice as long to command.

[Busbo]

BFS not a main base, I think it's crewed by Canadians. I'd be amazed if this changes in the near future.

Bizarre. To those hopefuls seeking useful facts, the above is not true.....in any way.

I assume this is some kind of (very) private joke

[vrb03kt]

I think Doobler is mistaking this thread with the Thomson one!

[Chirpy Pilot]

Was looking at a Direct Entry command with them but appear to have hit a brick wall with
weight of aircraft of command time. (E170)

[DooblerChina]

Sorry for the above comment, wrong thread!!!

[upthere]

Anyone been to the Non TR FO assessment day recently? Any tips on the day would be gratefully recieved!

Apparently it is a group exercise, competancy based interview, followed by a 757 sim assessment if successful (I have the profile).

Many thanks.

[727Man]

Anyone got any tips for making the benchmark pass rate for there online tests?

feel free to PM me.

[Honest Fr@nk]

Ask a your local, friendly Maths and English teachers round for the evening.

[fa2fi]

It's a long time since I did it. The maths test wasn't anything to horrendous but don't spend 20 minutes on one questions. If you're not getting a sensible answer just move on and just be yourself when it comes to the personality test and don't try and trick it or answer it how you think they want you to answer it. And the verbal reasoning is very much a matter or RTFQ and RTFA ;-). Pick the most right answer! Good luck.

[Chesty Morgan]

Anyone got any tips for making the benchmark pass rate for there online tests?

feel free to PM me.
Aim higher.

[Jumbo2]

Aim higher.
You suggest Virgin or BA ;)

[Zapper27]

Hi fellow pilots,

Whats the 70% contract like? Are there any part Time contracts that would allow commuting to europe?

Thanks for your inputs

[MaverickPrime]

You suggest Virgin or BA ;)

A Jet2 skipper based and living somewhere like BFS would be significantly better off than any BA skipper living in the SE of England when you factor in cost of living. Jet2 seems a nice little number for some.

Horses for courses! :)

[H44]

A Jet2 skipper based and living somewhere like BFS would be significantly better off than any BA skipper living in the SE of England when you factor in cost of living. Jet2 seems a nice little number for some.

That explains why BA have lost so many experienced FO's and Captains to Jet2 recently. Oh...wait, that's not right.....:}

[Zapper27]

Hi all,

What Do the rosters On the 757 during summer look like?Is it also mostly 6/2? Do you have overnights every now and then or mostly returning to base?

Rgds and thanks

Martin

[Chesty Morgan]

That explains why BA have lost so many experienced FO's and Captains to Jet2 recently. Oh...wait, that's not right.....:}

Maybe they believe their own press too much...

[guillermo1989]

Hello everyone,

I've been trying to locate updated information about the online assessment for Jet2! I don't know what to study for or what to expect. People say it is relatively straight forward, but it might not be for me ! Ha. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Don't hesitate to PM me.

Thank you very much !
Regards

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

What Do the rosters On the 757 during summer look like? Rosters are busy in the summer

Is it also mostly 6/2? No. The roster varies from 3 or 4 days on to occasionally 6 on, days off vary from 2 - 4 days off in a row.

Do you have overnights every now and then or mostly returning to base? There are no overnights in the schedule. There are occasional one off charters (mostly during the winter) where night stops are involved.

[DDobinpilot]

Hi there,

Am in the middle of applying for Jet2 as a non TRed FO. Am I right in thinking that they have recently just been given a payrise? If so what is the estimated monthly take home pay of a year 1 FO now for summer/winter on a 100% contract? Including block hours.

[JM926]

Hi there,

Am in the middle of applying for Jet2 as a non TRed FO. Am I right in thinking that they have recently just been given a payrise? If so what is the estimated monthly take home pay of a year 1 FO now for summer/winter on a 100% contract? Including block hours.

Yes within the last year there has been a rise. Expect, with standard pension contribution of 6% a little over £3k after tax. I'm not in the busiest base and in Summer would get perhaps £5/600 on top of that in flying pay. Occasionally more if offered day off payments etc. Winter obviously a fair bit less in flying pay with the quieter roster. I did a little less than 600 hours last year and that was considered a lot by some

[DDobinpilot]

Thanks for the reply, great info. Cheers

[JM926]

Thanks for the reply, great info. Cheers

No worries. Bare in mind though that those figures are accurate with respect to a 100% contract.

[Council Van]

They are about right for FO, add around 280 a month for SFO.

600hrs a year sounds far to much like hard work to me.:sad: I did less than that.:ok:

[Bradley Hardacre]

It's duty hours not flying hours that determine the value of the job.

[Council Van]

Duty hours last year, a lot less than 1000.

[Busbo]

It's duty hours not flying hours that determine the value of the job.

Well yes and no.

In Jet2 a flying day generally consists of minimum report time, less than an hour turnaround and minimum post duty times. So minimal non-flying duty hours involved. Completely and totally different to the likes of BA.

Of course there are many standbys aswell, especially in winter, but to me that just adds up to unparalleled amounts of time at home (albeit with my phone in my pocket)

[Council Van]

It's a tough life Busbo, but some one has to do it.

[FLAPS RUNNING]

Not as good as the old EMA days though Council Van!

[Council Van]

No, of course not, and the money is not as good either. Best job ever. At least I escaped spending every other weekend in the Globana.

Saw a Bournemouth flying club Falcon 20 yesterday, now they really are living the life of riley

[Iver]

Is EDI still entirely 300s or will it also get some 800 flying? What is the mix of 300 to 800 flying at other bases?

[whitemonk]

Figures all correct above, expect circa 2800 take home in the summer on 70% for the first year. And less than 300 hrs pa if on the 75.... :ok:

[JM926]

Is EDI still entirely 300s or will it also get some 800 flying? What is the mix of 300 to 800 flying at other bases?

EDI mixed 300/800 not sure of the actual breakdown of aircraft numbers though. GLA exclusively 800 as far as I'm aware, BFS exclusively 300. The remainder of the bases a mix of both currently. I think BHX when opened will be all 800 but happy to be corrected on that...

[B737900er]

I thought the 75 will do less, especially with the new 3 year lease with Air Tankers A330.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Don't think it's slots out if MAN, more like slots into Spain that are at a premium.

[DDobinpilot]

Excuse my ignorance as I work for a foreign carrier and terminology is slightly different... But, for the documents required for the J2 assessment day, it says they want a 'copy of most recent LPC'.. Does this mean your most recent line check report? Or do they want most recent sim report? Or just the page in your license where the checks are signed off every 6 months?

[Chesty Morgan]

LPC is the Licence Proficiency Check, so a sim check. It sounds like they want an actual copy of the report...

[Flap40]

Signature in the Licence will do.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

It sounds like they want an actual copy of the report...

Nah, you'll need a copy of your licence where your most recent Proficiency Check will have been signed off.

[DDobinpilot]

Thought so, cheers!

[Trossie]

Something to do with this thread: Jet2.com to create almost 1,000 new jobs - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37228744) ?

[DDobinpilot]

Just trying to prep for the J2 interview, they state it's competency based, can anyone who has done it offer any feedback as to the sort of things they asked? I assume it will be things such as 'name a time you worked as a team' 'showed good situational awareness' etc.. Does it go much deeper than that?

[Monarch Man]

Just trying to get up to date info etc, and having attended when Jet2 visited the sandy furnace a while back..I'm still looking at this option as my escape plan.
How has the summer gone so far? Is there still a big split between summer and winter workloads? Roadshows notwithstanding, when is the next round of DEC recruitment likely to happen..or at least planned to happen etc. Lastly, is there likely to be offers of preferential bases..or will you end up where the need is greatest?
Thanks in advance, and yes, for me the paycut will be a price worth coming home for...just as long as I have a reasonable and up to date picture of goings on.

[16024]

Seconding what Council Van says.
Plus, Monarch Man: Pay cut?
Unless you are getting twice what you'd get here, or living like a hermit there, it's not really much of a pay cut, unless you are on close to 200k.
And it's all heading in the right direction, rather than "not what it used to be".
These are the good old days.

[Monarch Man]

Thanks CV:ok:

16024, my comment was merely a reflection of my present disposable income v what I could expect at Jet 2 should I be given the opportunity to join, it wasn't meant to be anything else, as the only real reason now for staying were I am is financial.

[fa2fi]

Does anyone know how it works with the training these days. I understand at one point you were limited to the -300 for a certain time, and then went on to the -800. Is that still the case with the -300s leaving fairly soon or are you recruited straight on to the -800?

[zerotohero]

Its a mix. Some guys start on the 800 some on the 300. I guess is it depends on your base and or experience and or the way the wind blows that day.
As you say though 300's are been phased out so I would say most guys going forward will be 800 only.

[Odins Raven]

The -300s with the winglets will be staying until they're phased out in 2022.

[Batman737]

Is anybody able to give a rough renumeration breakdown for a J2 Capt 737? I'm assuming it would have been outlined at the recent roadshows. Sadly I was unable to attend. I've obviously had a look at PPJN etc. However, I wasn't sure even the recently updated salary was correct and I was after a typical monthly breakdown etc. Any bonuses paid etc? Shares? Pension? Typical monthly Salary/Duty/Sector. Thanks so much in advance!

[DDobinpilot]

Just out of interest, Guys who have been accepted in the past couple of weeks what sort of start dates are you being given?

[S1 C4 206]

What roster pattern does a 70%er have and how many hours will they fly?

In 2016 I believe most 737 pilots ( 100%er ) flew approx 550 - 600 hrs.
Is this likely to change in the coming years?
I am particularly interested in STN based crews.

thanks, S1

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Nobody can answer you with regard to STN base. In general 100%ers do 600-800 hours per year, and I would imagine that a 70%er would fly the best part of 600 hours per year as the 70%ers fly full time in the summer (busy) season, and take their time off in the winter when 100%ers fly very little.

[DDobinpilot]

Hey guys,

As this thread has been so helpful I thought I'd post my assessment experience.

Online tests: Do some practice beforehand as time is tight, and once your scores in your practice are reasonable then have a go, I got through these fine, I've known guys who haven't and J2 have let them have another go.

Telephone interview : 10 minute phone call basically wanting to know your reasons for applying, no biggie.

Group ex : 2 possible exercises depending on the amount of people who are there, 5 minutes to read through things in silence, then 15 minutes as a group. Really not hard, I have quite a bit of experience with group exercises, those who don't, there is no real trick to them. Main things, make sure someone keeps time, don't dominate, keep an eye on the time and work through things slowly, taking it in turns to speak. You just want to all agree on a solution to a simple problem.

Interview : I did no prep for this, a few posts on here say it's a 20 minute relaxed chat, mine was relaxed but it lasted for an hour, so a little bit more involved than I was expecting. Know a bit about jet2 and how they make money, who their main rivals are, know about your own company. They will want to know occasions where you've influenced others, they have a scenario based question also, in my one we lined up on the runway and we get an engine low oil pressure light and the captain just wants to apply take off thrust to see if it goes away, airport has no engineering etc, what would you do? My answer was that basically I wouldn't want to risk having to reject a take-off or even attempt a take-off if I have that sort of warning light, so would like to taxi off the runway and try and sort out the problem, once off the runway perform the QRH checklist, check the maintenance log to see if the aircraft has a history of it and how they resolved it, speak to company engineering over the phone etc and try to resolve the problem. Then mention that you'd be thinking about airport closure times, flight duty limitations, talking to passengers and the crew etc. Anyone with airline experience will have no problems with this. They tell you about their 70% contract and 100% contract and ask whether you'd be interested in doing the 70% contract, I said if I was offered the 70% contract then I wouldn't be joining, as I was taking a pay cut for the job anyway.

Sim : Did the check in a 737. I found the way the sim was run to be a little bit strange, but maybe I'm just out of the game with it. It was run with 2 j2 captains, one as your PM, I assumed this would be a good thing as I'd have a very on the ball PM, but this wasn't really the case, I expected to be operating using full Jet2 SOPs, but whilst they send you a few of their SOPs what they seem to want you to do is use a hybrid of their SOPs and your own, and they wanted me to brief the PM on every single thing I wanted him to say.. even to the point of calling something like 'Positive rate' after take-off. And they basically said if I didn't brief him to say something then he simply wouldn't say it. Whilst this doesn't sound too bad, they also seem to have the attitude of wanting to get going, so during the brief I didn't feel it appropriate to sit there for 5 minutes briefing the PM on every single call, so I ended up with a very quiet PM! So this actually really threw me..

It has been said before that the sim test is less of check of your flying ability and more of a procedural test, I really found this to be the case.. The profile was a raw data sid out of manchester intially to 5000ft then upto FL70, clean up, accelerate from 210kts to 250kts, then to 300kts, then decelerate back to 250kts, then steep turns at 250kts left and right. Once those are complete, brief the approach, descent down to 3500ft, they want you to slow down to 210kts in the descent, the instructor acting as ATC gets on at you if you aren't slowing down quick enough, I was just above the flaps 1 speed limitation so once I was at that I took more flap, I think they want to see if you'll bust the flap speed, the approach is a raw data ILS to a missed approach then following the go around it's a single engine ILS with FD's to land. I would probably recommend doing a practice sim if you aren't familiar with the 737, as they seemed to expect a little bit of prior knowledge, that said, it's a sim check and not a type rating so don't expect it to be graded like one.

Got a call the next day to say I'd passed the sim then a few days after that got a call offering me the job on my first choice base. I found the way they ran everything to be very professional, as they are heavily recruiting at the moment it's quite clear that they are overworked in recruitment, it does seem to be a pretty good place to work, considering you aren't paying for the type rating (well, old fashioned bond) and accommodation is provided during the rating, as far as I can tell the 100% contract seems quite competitive. It's not BA, but if I compared it to the likes of Thomson where for a non type rated guy I'd be paying out of my salary for 3 years and starting on a PPY contract and expecting a 10+ year wait for command, it beats it in my opinion. Not to mention I live near the base they've given me so it gives me the chance of a great family life.

Hope this helps.

[G-IZMO]

Great post. I am there on Thursday and although not inexperienced, this is very useful. I will endeavour to do the same either way.

[peba]

Would anybody be able to advise on ryanair or Jet2 both permanent contracts in the same base? Eg stn. That expansion makes things very interesting for ryanair captains.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Would anybody be able to advise on ryanair or Jet2

Suppose it depends on what you want -

Benefits of Ryanair - roster pattern, apart from that I believe that Jet2 wins on all other counts.

[Lazydogg]

Hmmm... I'm not so sure it's just the roster Johnny. It depends on base and whether you are on a permanent UK contract at FR. I have a close friend that is a Captain on the 737 at Jet2. We had a discussion about this and I earned more last year than he did as a UK based FR 737 Captain. He works less overall however. So if you are talking about take home pay on a UK permanent FR contract then Jet2 doesn't win on all counts according to our recent comparisons. There is also scope for the right people with the required competencies and ability to earn more at FR by joining the training department in positions such as LTC and TRI/TRE. This is purely based on the fact that the airline is expanding to over 500 aircraft over the next number of years. However with all that said I know quite a few ex colleagues in both seats at Jet2 and by and large they are happy. I'm not knocking it by any means.

Safe Flying.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

But it's about much more than how much you take home. You might well have an extra few quid in your sky rocket, but you're made to work harder for it.

Looking at the route structure for STN there will be no 4 sector days for a start. I'm sure there are plenty more pros and cons, but based on my discussions with plenty of people that have moved from FR to Jet2 over the last few years, the vast majority wouldn't go back in a month of Sunday's.

[Kirk out]

I think it's quite interesting how the attitude toward RYR has changed over recent years. Does no one hate MOL anymore? Has everyone forgotten the repugnant bye bye baby insignia emblazoned on the aircraft? Is PM the new MOL?

Are the above just superficial to the end choice? I'm not trying to be provocative, I'm genuinely interested. I know the RYR training is truly excellent, and for a cadet in the bizarre world of newly minted cadets demanding jets it is the place to go....but for other sorts?

The market is well....buoyant....but for how long. Wonder what odds bet Fred give for the next tits up and who....won't be long folks....

[Direct Bondi]

What affect, if any, do the green onesie, demobbed mob have? – I hear the fast jet men (and some not so fast) have secured a number of management positions with the expectation newcomers will hold them in great esteem.

[Flying Wild]

What affect, if any, do the green onesie, demobbed mob have? – I hear the fast jet men (and some not so fast) have secured a number of management positions with the expectation newcomers will hold them in great esteem.

These days HR has much more of an input into the recruitment process than any old boys network / forces bias may have had in the past.

[Direct Bondi]

I’m very pleased to hear this. As we all know, those HR professionals are highly knowledgeable on pilot selection and craft fairs.
I was afraid of an“old-boys network” because for many years I have lived with the agony of my fast-jet pilot applications being rejected by the RAF. I stopped applying after the realization that being an obese, cross-eyed, larger-loving, foul-mouthed, Australian lesbian, living in the bush, the odds were stacked against me. However, I was offered a non-flying commission with the RAF Regiment which I turned down in favor of moving to Sydney and becoming an intern in an adult book shop. Sadly, my publishing career never materialized, but I lost weight, fixed my eyes, stopped drinking and eventually achieved my goal of becoming a pilot.
Some things about me haven’t changed. I still love being surrounded by bush, so a job in the Northern Territories with Jet2 would be :mad: ideal.

[olster]

DB, do you mean 'larger loving' or 'lager loving?' Both ideal pilot qualities I hasten to add...

[MaverickPrime]

I think it's quite interesting how the attitude toward RYR has changed over recent years. Does no one hate MOL anymore? Has everyone forgotten the repugnant bye bye baby insignia emblazoned on the aircraft? Is PM the new MOL?

Are the above just superficial to the end choice? I'm not trying to be provocative, I'm genuinely interested. I know the RYR training is truly excellent, and for a cadet in the bizarre world of newly minted cadets demanding jets it is the place to go....but for other sorts?

The market is well....buoyant....but for how long. Wonder what odds bet Fred give for the next tits up and who....won't be long folks....

Because judging by 5-10 year old info from BALPA versus uptodate info I've been given, it would seem the FR direct UK contracts seem to have got better thus why people are willing to stay. Much improvement still needed, especially at entry level.

I would hazard a guess that with no union at FR, pilots were forced to vote with their feet over the last decade, the effects of which were probably felt in the boardroom forcing FR's hand; they would never admit it though! However, those 'effects' are hard to quantify or confirm so it's purely speculation, conjecture and attempting to connect the dots on my part.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

I hear the fast jet men (and some not so fast) have secured a number of management positions with the expectation newcomers will hold them in great esteem

You hear incorrectly in my opinion. Many of the pilot management team are ex military, however the notion that as such they should be held in high esteem is nonsense. Their position alone means that people should respect them, the same as anyone in any business respects their peers. The management team certainly have never come across as an ex military team that have no time for you unless you were too.

[16024]

+1 to what Johnny said.
Your backgrounds will be held in sufficient esteem if you can fly the damn thing.
The way bases are marching south these days might just suit Bondi.
Me, I'm holding out for Coffs Harbour.

[Chesty Morgan]

Yes, but it's based on number of available seats and there are never enough!

[Bam Thwok]

Does Jet2 offer a staff travel system? or discounted holidays?

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ....... That's just brought on my asthma....I'm off to the docs !.

[Ivan aromer]

A good way to get Phillip really really cross is to mention staff travel. He goes ballistiic.
I speak as one who has been roasted!

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Staff travel scheme -

There are 2 options -

1) is a salary sacrifice scheme. It's quite complicated, but basically you pay for your holiday by monthly deduction from your salary which is taken before tax, thus giving you a tax break on that amount.

2) is as detailed before, based on load factors. Over the last year or so this has become completely unworkable, especially at peak times.

Believe me, there have been years and years of attempts made for improvements, whenever the crew council meet it is on the agenda, unfortunately it falls on deaf ears. A standby system has been suggested but is always thrown out for one reason or another.

"What did he say" - words to the effect of "why should I let you have a seat at a discount when somebody else will pay full fare".

[Twiglet1]

Deadp
Don't forget at FR your probably also including crew seats whereas this is more difficult for a UK AOC

[Ivan aromer]

Yes offering a staff perk (such as staff travel) is a great for morale.
However the Phil way would seem to be, "all perks cancelled until morale improves"
Brilliant.
This is certainly not the way Herb K or Richard B run their excellent enterprises!

[DDobinpilot]

I'll add my 2 cents for what it's worth, as I am joining Jet2 from an airline with extensive staff travel benefits, for single guys or young couples I can understand the desire for it, but for guys with families who will most likely want to travel during peak times it's a fairly useless perk, as trying to get on an aircraft using staff travel during peak holiday times you can basically forget about it, and tbh the stress of trying to do it basically ruins part of your holiday.

I personally use it alot with my current airline as I have lived thousands of miles away from home for the past 6 years.. but as Jet2 offers me a base very close to my house I'll have very little use for it so am quite happy to give it up. As I spend half my life either on aircraft or in airports, I have very little desire in spending my days off playing staff travel roulette.

[H44]

Maybe staff travel as in flight only isn't as useful for families, but Jet2 is pushing the holiday offering, so could perhaps be offering discounted holidays. My current lot offer up to £1700 off a holiday every year. It's small things like this, a bonus when the company does well, incremental pay scales, and some kind of share deal that would elevate Jet2 from a stepping stone to a career airline imho.

[DDobinpilot]

I agree with all of those points H44. Strikes me as it would be a big cost saving to them if they could retain most of their pilots also and wouldn't be hard to do.

[16024]

Philip:
words to the effect of "why should I let you have a seat at a discount when somebody else will pay full fare".
Richard:
If you look after your staff, they'll look after your customers. It's that simple.

[Luibar]

Richard:
Quote:
If you look after your staff, they'll look after your customers. It's that simple.

That's it. Period!

[Big Tudor]

....Richard B run their excellent enterprises!
If you look after your staff, they'll look after your customers. It's that simple.

Travel Weekly from August 4th this year
Virgin Atlantic yesterday vowed to keep its fleet flying in the face of threatened industrial action by a union which claims to represent almost three quarters of its pilots.

Is this the sort or excellent enterprise and staff care to which you refer?

[Big Tudor]

H44 £1,700 may seem like a "small thing" to you, but multiply that by 2,500 staff and you have a £4 million + deduction from your balance sheet every year. Not exactly loose change in anyone's books.
Personally, I'd rather have the money and chose where I go, when I go and who I go with.

[Boeing 7E7]

H44 £1,700 may seem like a "small thing" to you, but multiply that by 2,500 staff and you have a £4 million + deduction from your balance sheet every year..

Sounds like something straight from the mouth of the factory owner! In fact ...why even pay the workers at all as it has a significant affect on the bottom line. Muppet.

[Ivan aromer]

If Phil gets cross at very idea of staff travel, mention unions and he self ignites! It is alleged that he ripped the BALPA lanyard from the neck of crew member!

[RAFAT]

The employment contract does state that ONLY Jet2 lanyards shall be worn.

[Ivan aromer]

Must be the new contracts.

[Yorkshire_Pudding]

I would say lack of staff travel or significant incentives to book through Jet2 holidays is a lost marketing opportunity.

If you asked for a show of hands in the crew room for those who have booked a Jet2 holiday or flight in the last 12 months it wold probably be less than 10%. There are two issues with this;

Your staff have no real idea about the product, especially on the holidays side, when friends, family and colleagues ask, knowing that you work for the company. They can't say what an amazing holiday they had with the company and upsell the brand.

It doesn't look very good when most your staff holiday with all the competition instead!

[Twiglet1]

Lanyards - yeah why not. Corporate image springs to mind.
Yorkshire Pudd - Can't argue with that tbh.

[B737900er]

There is no loss of license or private health care. J2 offer a discount with BUPA but its nothing special, in fact, If you enquire yourself, you can get a similar deal.

The current salary exchange (not a benefit so to speak) is only good if your fully employed and on the high tax band.

I think cooperating with the union, and listening to employees for what they would like, would go a long way. Of course the demands of the employees can not all be satisfied.

[Depone]

I think it's quite interesting how the attitude toward RYR has changed over recent years

When compared with 5 years ago, FR is a different airline these days. From my experience, almost all those leaving having done so for basing/family reasons or due to a desire to fly longhaul, rather than the money.

it would seem the FR direct UK contracts seem to have got better thus why people are willing to stay

No, worse. Plenty of threads on this issue elsewhere, which state that the FR take home after maximising own pension contributions averages at about £6k.

Nobody on here seems to know what a Jet2 Captain takes home.

But it's about much more than how much you take home. You might well have an extra few quid in your sky rocket, but you're made to work harder for it.

I know what you're saying, but most Captains would find it very hard to take a pay cut to join Jet2. The difference between flying 700 and 800 hours a year is not great in terms of effort, and where there's an obvious reward in your bank account for the hard work, most would do it happily.

Benefits of Ryanair - roster pattern, apart from that I believe that Jet2 wins on all other counts

Really? Not much difference in term of benefits and less pay. For me, the stable 5/4 is worth at least £20k per annum because of its beneficial effect on family life. So, if working for FR involves a greater take home as well providing that huge inducement, Jet2 is a hard sell for me.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

How much leave do you manage to get at times that are of any use to a family at Ryanair?

Eg, could I expect to get a period of leave over Christmas or New Year, a week at Feb 1/2 term, a week at Easter, 2 weeks in the July/August summer holidays and a week at October 1/2 term? Most years I can manage to get the vast majority of those, and maybe May 1/2 term too.

I haven't worked for Ryanair, and I suspect those here defending them haven't worked for Jet2. All I can base my opinions on are the feedback that many of those that have made the transition from FR to LS have detailed, and they are more than happy with their lot, I am also aware of some that moved from Jet2 to FR and are looking to return, despite the basing not really suiting them.

Lots of differing T's and C's, however I think the biggest thing that I have noticed people saying is the attitude that Jet2 have towards them, particularly when you are after a favour off Rostering, or trying to sort out a swap with Crewing.

[JM926]

Each to their own obviously..no where is perfect.

With respect to standbys (this said with the caveat that I'm based in my home base) I think it's hard to view a home standby day as a working day. I've had countless rostered in my 18 months here and in that time have been called out a total of 3 times. 2 hour call out so to be honest I just go about my daily life and just avoid the places where I know phone signal is poor. A few days flying rostered for Nov and 10+ standbys-which I virtually guarantee you will turn out to be days off for all intents and purposes. Still paid full salary though...pretty good quality of life all in all. Granted if you're one for hour building quickly there might be better options

[Marcus Absent]

For goodness sake guys. Horses for courses. Lets not get into the how high can you piss.:*

[Depone]

With regards to what Johnny said, Deadpool's on the same lines as me.

As I said, those leaving Ryanair for other airlines are 2000 hour FOs for whom long haul, big jets and hotels in Boston is the big draw. For those who enjoy hand-flying medium jets into interesting airports, before returning to their own bed with the lady who is still their wife, Ryanair holds few horrors.

I look at my roster for the next 30 days and it looks pretty good: 11 days flying, each with 2 sectors, 12 different routes, so not much repetition, 3 standbys and 1 training day. I'm back home mid afternoon on all bar one of the earlies and only have to leave for work mid afternoon for the lates. I will see my children every working day, plus for the entirety of each and every of the 15 days I'm not working.

[DDobinpilot]

The airports on long haul are still pretty interesting, Canarsie approach into JFK springs to mind, or the LDA into Haneda, or into Saporro on a clear day they just clear you to self position downwind to make a visual circuit to land, I'm on the jumbo and can hand fly as much or as little as I like, so not sure where that hand-flying comment comes from. Agree with the rest of your points though, after years of being jet lagged in hotels I'm very much looking forward to being home to my own bed each night.

[Depone]

I'm on the jumbo and can hand fly as much or as little as I like, so not sure where that hand-flying comment comes from

You might find you're in a minority these days. Not many hand fly jumbos about. But in any case, there's little doubt that those who find flying the plane as the main draw to the career would find the greater frequency of shorter sectors to a larger variety of (often smaller) fields, more fun than longhaul.

[Flap40]

11 days flying, each with 2 sectors, 12 different routes

How do you manage 12 different routes in 11 days without landing miles from your car?

[DDobinpilot]

Ahh I dunno, I have a friend who works at Cargolux flying the jumbo and they'll often disconnect at 20,000ft and hand fly all the way to landing. I can't say I have a huge amount of interest in hand flying if I'm being honest, lets face it we can all fly a departure and an approach, it isn't hard. And it had no influence on me joining Jet2, missing out on family moments and the chance to be at home is what I made the move for. Sitting around in a hotel room in the middle of the night (which is what I'm doing right now) gets old pretty quick!

[Depone]

How do you manage 12 different routes in 11 days without landing miles from your car?

Good spot Flap40! :-)

My mistake. The 12 routes included my flights yesterday, whereas the rest of the stats relate to the remainder of my month according to Rosterbuster.

Obviously, all the 2 sector days leave me back at my car.

DDobinpilot: Jet2 and FR etc are loco pax operators. Cargo operators don't count!

[Wireless]

I can back up the above. I flew the jumbo and hand flew it freely. Where I am now you can hand fly if you wish. Just choose sensible moments the same as anywhere. It's whether you chose to though. Most jumbo Pilots have been flying long enough to get past the obsession with hand flying absolutely every approach just for selfish reasons and pick their moments. It's all about managing risk and after being awake half the night you use what little reserves you and your team mate at the front are left with in the best way. Just my observation.

[DDobinpilot]

Well I'm at a pax and cargo operator, either way I think most operators don't have set rules on when you have to engage the autopilot, might be wrong though.

Agree with Wireless, if it's a 3am departure where we are both tired departing out of an unfamiliar port, chances are I'll engage the autopilot earlier rather than later, and also take into account how busy the PM is, or if there is significant weather around I need to avoid in my opinion you really should be engaging the autopilot early. But I have no problem if the guy I'm flying with engages it early or later.

[Odins Raven]

No, worse. Plenty of threads on this issue elsewhere, which state that the FR take home after maximising own pension contributions averages at about £6k.

Nobody on here seems to know what a Jet2 Captain takes home.

5.6k - 6k after tax and pension contributions, depending on how many hours you are flying.

Biggest selling point is home base and the roster. 2 sector days at decent report times and only 500-ish hours per year, unless you are on the 757 then you'll struggle to make 3-400.

Of course the type / amount of flying can change in future. But at the moment it's quite a nice little number.

[Depone]

Thanks for the info Odins Raven.

[Say Mach Number]

Odins Raven summed it up ; it can all change.

Its only a matter of time before Jet2 wake up and someone points out (probably ex Ryanair type) that 2 sectors days and pilots doing 500 hours a year is way short of what can be achieved.

Enjoy it while you can as it wont last especially if they employ any senior FR pilots or Mment who are trying to make a statement or a good impression.

Ps only upside they might espouse the benefits of a 5/4 roster

[Oceanic815]

With regard to 2-sector days, the route structure which is mainly to package holiday destinations doesn't allow 4 sectors. The exception being a AMS DUS from LBA I believe. Therefore if you can't do 4 sectors the only way to increase everyone's hours is by flying more over the winter. This year I believe there is an increase of winter routes by 40-50% depending on who you believe, which is great but it still only means flying 3-4 times a month. We will enjoy it while it lasts!

[Odins Raven]

The current business model is primarily Mediterranean Leisure with a few city breaks. It doesn't matter how many Ryanair management join Jet2, it won't make Brits go on holiday when there is no sunshine and cold weather in the Med. Therefore the winters will always be quieter for obvious reasons. But yes, there is a need to increase revenue in the winter to pay off the new aircraft as quickly as possible so now the major bases will be flying 6 days a month instead of 3, which is still a nice balance.

I very much doubt the airline will go back to its LoCo roots and try to take on FR and EZY.

[AFA]

5.6k - 6k after tax and pension contributions, depending on how many hours you are flying.

Biggest selling point is home base and the roster. 2 sector days at decent report times and only 500-ish hours per year, unless you are on the 757 then you'll struggle to make 3-400.

Of course the type / amount of flying can change in future. But at the moment it's quite a nice little number.

Assuming you match the employers contribution that's around £120,000-£133,000 gross per year which I think is pretty decent and certainly not the poor wage some people have suggested.
If the basic salary of £91,000 on PPJN is correct could I ask how the difference is made up? I know there is sector pay but is there an hourly rate as well?
And is that £30-40k pensionable??

For 500hrs per year at home base that's a very nice deal.

[16024]

6K take home at Fr?
5.6 to 6K at J2?
PPJN needs updating!
Done both, and never got near those figures. Anyway, as someone said above, it's not a pissing contest. I've lost count of the number of times an FR F/O has come up with some unfeasible take home figure, and only admitted when pressed that he was still paying back the 30K.

Quote:
How do you manage 12 different routes in 11 days without landing miles from your car?

Multi sector days! Ah, the memories.

[H44]

Yes I'm not sure how people are achieving £6k in Jet2. Unless they're on the old increments contract. I never once got close to £6k in my time there (admittedly the pay has gone up since I left). As a 73 skipper doing 650 hours a year, my pay ranged from £4.5k in winter to £5.4k in summer after deducting £300 for the pension.

Afaik the hourly rate is £2.10 at Jet2. My variable pay was about £600 - £800 per month.

[Flying Wild]

The current business model is primarily Mediterranean Leisure with a few city breaks...

...I very much doubt the airline will go back to its LoCo roots and try to take on FR and EZY.

I think you'll find that the Jet2Holidays side of the business is the driver these days, with year on year growth. The fleet size is forecast to be 74 next summer and 85 by summer 2018. The competitors are TCX, TOM and MON (all of whom Jet2 are larger than), not FR or EZY.

[Yorkshire_Pudding]

Fleet size, yes, but in terms of passengers carried?

2015:
Tom 10.6m
TCX 6.4m
Jet2 6m
Mon 5.7m

[Flying Wild]

Not much in it between Jet2 and TCX, but I feel that MON are in the crosshairs, particularly at the likes of BHX. You only need to walk through the terminal and see the advertising and promotional staff there to see it's a major push.

[OhNoCB]

I appreciate most asking are in the left seat but as an FO having worked for both FR and Jet2 (in that order) I have to say there was an absolutely massive quality of life increase when I moved. I am paid better and FAR more consistently than I was in FR (due to being employed and salaried). I am at home every single night instead of being moved around bases as they see fit (I believe this is done slightly less now). I get my uniform, licence, LOL, pension, medicals, travel and hotac paid for and organised (don't underestimate this, as a commuter in FR I spent far too much of my time off planning an itinerary). In return for all this, I personally find the place much happier, there is less bitching (it still happen as I am sure it does everywhere, but its not 24/7), I can actually get a hold of crewing, rostering etc and have met many of the post holders or managements pilots and had a good time in the pub with a lot of them.

I very occasionally miss the 5/4 pattern roster, but at least I am home every night and not commuting, and at the minute most of the month is filled with standbys which I personally treat almost as days off - true I can't drink during them but I can go about my day as I want pretty much.

I also don't have to take a forced month off unpaid, I have much much more leave (more than 3x as much) with a system that works for me.

I also don't spend a large amount of time worrying about dodgy tax arrangements and trying to follow what the accountant I was forced to use is doing with my money and whether or not it is actually legal (any FR contractor probably knows what I mean).

For hard figures, I took a 6 sample period of January to July (to try to include a mix of seasons). I should also point out this didn't include my unpaid month off in FR.

Normal UK PAYE tax in Jet2.
Still paying type rating expense in FR therefore paying less tax than normal.

My average net pay in Jet2 was £3920 GBP
My average net pay in FR was €3030 EUR

I had more duty days (ie. standby) in Jet2 but ~half as many hours flown. I also had much less personal expenditure.

Hope these numbers are useful to someone.

[DDobinpilot]

I was told by Jet2 (so take with a pinch of salt maybe) that flight/sector pay I could expect to add about £6k-£8k per annum. I would hazard a guess that the guy above stating the £3900 net each is an SFO. Which experienced guys would get within 6 months of joining, making the annual salary around £59k adding 6-8k a year would be £65-£67k. So 3900 seems reasonable for an SFO. I believe a normal FO would be on around £3300-3500 net take home a month? (100% contract).

[Depone]

The pay at Ryanair varies between bases and whether you are based in the UK or Europe and what contract you're on. For a captain directly employed on a UK contract £6k in a month is definitely possible, however they are listing their 'best' month (probably in the summer). Take home can range from £5k to £6.5k depending on if you have flown more than 100 hours in that calendar month, worked any days off etc. Average over the year I would say it is closer to £5.5.

True. It varies.

Mine was an average of almost exactly £5,900 for 825 hours. Minimum £4,600 on a month off and maximum £6,600 on a busy month in the winter.

The trouble with calculating wages by looking only at take home is that the tax regime in the UK means that for every extra £10k you earn when you're on less than £100k you only get an extra £500 per month in your pocket. Once you get above £100k, it's awful, as you only earn £250 extra per month per £10k*.

*The HMRC tax calculator tool.

[Chesty Morgan]

Dead pool, the amount of DECs is to cover expansion, there aren't enough FOs ready for upgrade alone.

[Twiglet1]

Great to see some good publicity for both LS and FR from their crews, with some now defending both airlines and how good it is to work there. Unusual...

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

The amount of DECs that Jet2 are recruiting it shows they have no interest in promoting from within or they make the process too hard and have a high failure rate.

Do you actually work at Jet2? There are unprecedented numbers of upgrades happening at the moment, and there are more to come. The external DEC recruitment has always been a necessary rather than a preference. Some haven't made it through the upgrade process, the process has developed and the success rate has increased, however not everybody will make the grade, surely that is a good thing, if you aren't quite ready then you aren't quite ready, a Command is not a right. Standards have to be met and maintained.

You might well get your Command slightly more quickly at Ryanair, but you'll have to disappear to somewhere you don't really want to be for it, and from what I can remember of a post a while ago, you'll have to pay for the privilege of you're Command upgrade course.

Jet2 isn't perfect, but I still believe that, all things considered, I am better off at Jet2 than Ryanair

[Lazydogg]

The command OPPORTUNITY may come around quicker at Ryanair however that doesn't mean you will become a Captain. We have taken some direct entry FOs with 3000 hours plus recently. Some make the grade after a year and a half but a lot more don't. Some FOs join as cadets and do 4 years in Ryanair and when the command comes around they don't make it. That is either down to their own preparation or it is just not the right job for them. That's life unfortunately.

The last number of direct entry FOs I flew with (one ex Jet2 and one ex Air Baltic) didn't get through. That's not to say they won't ever get through it but it's by no means a given.

From my own personal view point:

I'm in exactly the base I want.
I'm on a permanent contract earning well in excess of 100k annually.
I'm on a fixed 5/4 roster.
I live a very quiet life both in and out of the company.



Would I swap all that to fly for Jet2 ?

No. But good luck to those past and present that do/did.

[RAFAT]

Johnny FP - No he doesn't.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

The last number of direct entry FOs I flew with (one ex Jet2 and one ex Air Baltic) didn't get through. That's not to say they won't ever get through it but it's by no means a given.

Which is exactly why people moving because they think they have a better chance of getting an upgrade sooner is not the smartest idea, especially when you factor in the probability of having to move away from home.

[Twiglet1]

Some FOs join as cadets and do 4 years in Ryanair and when the command comes around they don't make it

I'm getting too old. Cadet and 4 years later a Commander flying with a cadet.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Cadet and 4 years later a Commander flying with a cadet.

Therein lies the common issue these days, far too much expectation of having the command just because they've hit the magic xxxx hours threshold. The fact that they haven't really been round the block and learnt more life skills seems to be irrelevant to them.

[Mikehotel152]

Too many people are getting their command who shouldn't.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

And to be fair, there are quite a few who don't get who really should.

[FlipFlapFlop]

So true JFP and Mikeh152. 10 years in, 4 redundancies, 3 years in ME, 7000 hours and I have had to go back to two stripes to get into our national.

[zeddb]

I understand you can apply after 6 months and all boxes tickedUnder the new system that is a minimum of six months after the date of release to line. That is more like a year and possibly more on the 757 if you don't start line training until the winter season.

The good news is that providing you meet the criteria you will get a hearing unlike those airlines where you wait 15 years plus just because of your joining date or inside leg measurement or whatever those who slam the door and pull up the ladder have decided this week.

10 years in, 4 redundancies, 3 years in ME, 7000 hours and I have had to go back to two stripes to get into our national. Try 21 years, more redundancies than will fit on the page, more than 10000 hours and all your friends hinting it is maybe time to give up, then ask for sympathy. Two stripes and a head full of grey hair is a bit embarrasing on the car park bus but it's only a uniform at the end of the day and most of the punters haven't a clue what the braid signifies. Two stripes is also a lot better than none at all.

[JaxofMarlow]

So right JS. It is totally bonkers that seniority is only achievable within a company and is not transferable. No other industry still runs such an outdated system. This is why we have trashy terms and why we have children in the left hand seat.

[Kirk out]

At one end of the scale you have seniority, at the other you have nepotism. Somewhere in the middle you have a meritocracy.

If for example you have 10 go for say 5 upgrade positions and all 10 day make the grade, then seniority is as good as way to order ascension as any.

Rotten industry? Maybe, or maybe just a byproduct of a rotten society.....

[16024]

Yes, Kirk. All of that.
Trouble with a meritocracy is that one is at the mercy of someone's idea of how much merit one has. In other words "Your face has to fit".
Seniority works when it works. It can be ridiculous. It worked for me just because the company I worked for was expanding so fast the line was going down faster than they could fill the gap. You still had to tick the boxes.
Much as I hate to admit it (don't know why I hate to admit it, I'm obviously as irrational as some training departments..!) but FR seem as close as anyone to getting it right.

[upthere]

Even in a seniority based airline, nepotism still exists.

[Kirk out]

If you're selected or get through it's just, if you don't it's nepotism.

Is it really that difficult to see what constitutes a face that fits in? It's almost an in-house aptitude test and the faces that normally fit in are, by and large intelligent and normal. The real exceptions almost invariably define the meaning of nepotism. And the accusers of nepotism invariably define the meaning of misfits, not face not fits.....

Regarding the excellence of the RYR method;
The Pikeys training department and robust SOP's, coupled with very young aircraft are a proven product. I've flown with ex-LTC RYR on old aircraft and they were next to useless when it came to real world problems. Only quoted to say that there really is no perfect model, or employer.....and compared to other industries, which I've been in, pissing about in aircraft is still a million miles away from the drudgery that most working people suffer through every day of their working lives.

[upthere]

Well said kirk-out.

[Lazydogg]

That is an interesting view point. I know
an ex RYR LTC (KLM UK before RYR) that was at Atlantic. A very competent individual and well able to deal with "first world problems". Are we talking about the same person?

You lack credibility.

[zerotohero]

Remember that everyone can have an off day.

Sometimes I go in and feel and operate what I perceive to be sharp as :mad: and on the ball like a real pro.

Some days I make many stupid errors and feel like a plank in the left seat. Ultimately though as long as it's a safe aircraft and gets A-B I don't really care if I forget to call MSA or do an RVSM altimeter check. As long as the situational awareness is there it's ok.

People can weigh to heavily on the polish sometimes and forget it's the overall operation that matters.

[16024]

That's the truth.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Dare we get this back to Jet2 recruitment details rather than its current bogged down state of FR vs Jet2 and Command upgrade procedures.

Jet2 will recruit getting on for 200 pilots for 2017, some have already started, I would imagine plenty of spaces are left to fill. Due to expansion the vacancies cover all pilot positions, from ab-initio right through to DEC Training Captains. ALL those that are eligible for internal upgrades are being offered the opportunity to prove themselves, from SFO to Captain, Captain to LTC, LTC to TRI and TRI to TRE.

[Busbo]

from SFO to Captain, Captain to LTC, LTC to TRI and TRI to TRE.

Says the TRE!

Other career paths are available.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Says the TRE!

Sorry, I'm not with you?? Yes, I am a TRE, I followed that exact pathway to get there. Is my statement not correct?

All of those positions are available to those that qualify.

[Cuillin Hills]

SFO > SFI > TRI ?

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

I think that's an option too these days Cullin, hadn't thought of that. There's also Ground instructor positions to those interested.

[zeddb]

That seems to be determined on an individual basis. When I joined I was on 100% from the word go but my sim partner was on 70% and 50% during training. The primary difference between us was prior experience levels. I think that most who are on 70% contracts get 100% after a season but don't quote me on that.

I was asked during selection if I would accept 70% part time and I said yes as it would have been ok for my own circumstances. I have no idea if that made any difference.

Don't know if things are different this time around or what the basis is at the moment but I would imagine that supply and demand play a large part in who gets offered what.

A bit vague I know but I hope this is of some use.

[Paddingtons wellies]

No 50% training pay any more. Either 70% or 100% contracts depending on experience levels etc.

[Alycidon]

I think busbo was referring to the fact that TRE might not be everyone's career goal

[RAFAT]

Paddington wellies & zeddb - on your point about experience levels, you don't say which way around it is. A guy I know with over 7,000 hours got 70% recently, whilst a few months ago I know of 2 guys with under 3,000 hours that got 100%, so does that fit in with your theory in that higher experience gets 70% and lower gets 100%?

Of course I know that things change regularly depending on their requirements.

[RAFAT]

Supply and demand I agree.

The 100% guys I mentioned above were perhaps an exception as they were 2,000 to 3,000 all medium turboprop, but they were interviewed at the end of 2015 when there was a short-notice requirement for a batch of 757 crew.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

I think busbo was referring to the fact that TRE might not be everyone's career goal

Possibly?

I was however merely pointing out that all positions are available internally to those that have the desire and ability.

[DarkSoldier]

Does anyone have any direct information from experience as to how long it takes to get command in Jet2 as a new joiner (or in general at all)? Are they keen to get upgrades through or is that quite difficult? Thanks

[Flying Wild]

Does anyone have any direct information from experience as to how long it takes to get command in Jet2 as a new joiner (or in general at all)? Are they keen to get upgrades through or is that quite difficult? Thanks
A colleague joined from one of the ME3 earlier this year. He has the hours, but needs 6 months post final line check before he can submit upgrade paperwork. Once he does so, assuming he meets the criteria, he should be loaded onto the next available command development course (running monthly). This leads into an assessment sim. Once complete the result is put before a command board. Success there leads to command training. Theoretically he could have a command by next summer, around 12-15 months after joining.

The preference would always be to promote from within, but there just isn't the throughput to meet current expansion.

[zeddb]

In the same boat myself. Hoping for something positive early next year.

I would recommend looking through the development material available on the intranet and doing the questions. Amazing what you forget, whatever your prior experience.

[arctic monkey]

I've looked through the last 10 pages or so and I can't find any info on the current state of recruitment. I did my interview/assessment day in Sep, got a call from a nice chap 2 weeks ago telling me they would have an answer for me as soon as possible. Does anybody have any idea of the state of play in there at the moment?

[zerotohero]

Did you apply as DEC. Rated F/O. Non rated Captain. None rated F/O or Cadet?

HR is not always as quick as people would like.

[Odins Raven]

Recruitment team will be extremely busy at the moment with all the expansion planned for next summer. Don't take the lack of communication personally, you'll hear in time.

[arctic monkey]

I'm DEC. I understand the team are under pressure, I just wondered if there was any news.

[Buttie Box]

Well, that's my details in the system. Fairly straightforward.

I could only manage 15 out of the 20 numerical questions, all about pie charts and percentages, in the allotted time. Is this normal?

230 psych questions - it is what it is.

Going for non-rated FO position. Daring to hope.

[JM926]

15 out of 20 is better than most to be honest! I thought my application was a write off after doing that maths. Managed to pass it by some miracle....

[Buttie Box]

After just 8 days, have received standard email "Your Jet2.com Pilot Application - Next Steps" telling me that my application is being reviewed and if successful, expect to be telephone interviewed within the next 4 weeks. I don't know whether or not this is quick or not but still daring to hope.

Onwards and upwards.

[Pilot2/b]

Wasn't a hard decision to make for me to be honest! Looking forward to a future with Jet2.

[Ivan aromer]

Old English Proverb, Better the Devil you know etc.

[flydog]

are interviews still ongoing?

[WMB]

Still better than the £18000 bond, Flybe wanted for rated and current Dash8, Direct Entry Captains.

[RAFAT]

WMB - I still can't get over that one!

[Honest Fr@nk]

Any bond for rated and current Pilots is taking the piss in my book. Sometimes theres no choice, though, if thats where you want to be at? And whats the bond for?

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Not sure I agree Fr@nk, there is a lot of investment involved in somebody joining, even those that are type-rated. There is the company induction course where many will be staying in LBA at the companies expense and will require transport from their base to LBA and back again, there are 5 days of simulator, again many of those attending the sim will require hotel and transport, and there is line training.

All of which will amount to a good proportion of the £7.5k bond.

[Mr Good Cat]

7.5k is not that significant for most rated joiners as it is likely they are joining for their base of preference, making it unlikely that they'll leave any time soon.

However, it does prevent the odd curve-ball situation where a rate new joiner suddenly gets invited back by their previous employer with a carrot on offer (such as base/part-time etc) meaning Jet2 have wasted the few thousand invested in induction and OCC etc.

Not saying I'm a fan but can see their point of view, and still a lot fairer than what most operators are offering when you bear in mind the contracts.

[Honest Fr@nk]

Johnny FP. So there'd surely be a reduction in bond for any LBA based pilots whereby no transport or accommodation is provided. Just the sim expense to cover. But they own their own sims now! And line training??? Two pilots occupying two seats with fare paying customers. It used to be 4.5k when they was using third party sims. So why 7.5k now (thats if its true). The type rated pilot is not gaining anything from it. No extra qualification. What other industry takes on already qualified persons and "bonds" them. A different type/non type rated I can fully understand.

[G1991]

Or maybe to deter people when BA or TOM dangle the carrot?

[The Cleaner]

Have any NTR F/O's been offered start dates recently? Swimming at the moment.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Honest
If they want to join Jet 2 then the bond doesn't matter....

If they have an issue with the bond then Jet 2 probably doesn't want them.

Its not a great behaviour but Pilots are a highly paid asset. The better option would be to put them on 6 months notice

[Honest Fr@nk]

6 Months notice....................almost thought you was serious. ::eek:

[stockportonealpha]

A word of caution for those of you thinking about heading to Jet2... Especially for First Officers:

This is my opinion and others are welcome to have a different view, so please take it with a pinch of salt if you like... but my experience was that Jet2 is simply not a nice company to work for compared to many other airlines. If you have not worked for a decent airline before then you would not know any different and might think that it is fine - but it really isn't! It is a company that is simply unable and unwilling to listen to its work force, and in pilot terms has totally dismissed it flight crew by distancing itself so much from the pilots union (which is more of a professional trade association - you cannot compare BALPA to the TUG!). BALPA are responsible for some great things, and they do not have to run the firm! All the business has to do is listen to its people. The PLOG is a Jet2 platform for voicing issues, but there are no votes on important matters and it really has no clout. Plus the PLOG members really do not want to upset the apple cart and create a name for them selves with managers! Or what might happen... The company does not come back to the PLOG with any of its proposals or consult with them at all.

This article is embarrassing... but Jet2 is so proud of its landmark case!
Bird & Bird wins landmark case relating to the scope of collective bargaining with trade unions | Jet2.com (http://www.jet2.com/News/Bird_Bird_wins_landmark_case_relating_to_the_scope_of_collec tive_bargaining_with_trade_unions/)

Customer service and a low cost base they might have totally right, but they neglect to look after their own employees on a giant scale. There are a lot of unhappy people stuck there in all aspects of the business. Staff turnover is undoubtedly high.

Someone who deals with Jet2 from the outside on a regular basis described them to me as a 'stubborn and dis-organised' company - that pretty much sums them up I am afraid.

Lots of lovely people work at Jet2, as they do at all airlines though, and some of them are there for many reasons - but having worked for a number of airlines myself, including Jet2 they really are light years behind in the way that they engage with their people. Well actually they don't engage. People are simply scared to ask questions. There is no such thing as feedback or continuous improvement here. It does not exist. The training is in general poor (though there is an inherent arrogance by the managers that it is in fact great - you will hear the words 'Mature Training Organisation' being bantered around all the time!). Simulator checks are very much 'Testing with a capital T' instead of learning and improving exercises, which often creates a nervous atmosphere in the simulator - not what you want! Flightdeck CRM is strained with Commanders taking the weight of everything on their shoulders, FOs become good at staying quiet and operating Flap levers... I am exaggerating a bit, but when it comes to a command course you will have had zero opportunity at developing your potential command skills... Unlike any other airline I have worked for. No LOD here.

If you are in the right seat, you are pretty much ignored and do not really matter... Every management position is for Captains only, even First Officers and Senior FOs receive different pension contributions to Captains from the company! But you cannot ask why that is?! You'll be black listed!

Poor rostering practices are not transparent - you can have roster changes that crewing know about, but that have not been communicated to you. What is the point of having a roster? Your roster can change at short notice. Your duty can be extended. You cannot say no, there is no pay to cover such inconveniences. You are not encouraged to offer suggestions to Ops or crewing, or you will be reported and contacted by a manager. If you are on standby in the morning and crewing know that they are going to use you, then they will not put the changes on your roster the night before - instead preferring to call you out at the crack of dawn!!! Apparently this is for EASA regs which is utter nonsense as not one other UK airline has adopted such a procedure. All it does is maintain flexibility for the company up until the last minute. You might always get called at the end of a standby for a simulator duty that the training center always had you down for, but you didn't know until two hours before! It has happened to many people here based in Leeds and Manchester. Two hours notice before a sim!!!

Therefore planning a family life around your roster is very difficult.
This all boils down to the fact that there is no scheduling agreement or care for you by the firm!

Airport standby galore, even when there is absolutely no chance of being called - you'll have to stay in grotty facilities and wait and wait.

There are no perks to add to a mediocre salary, except for free tea and coffee really which is nice... Staff travel is essentially non existent, the Holiday Exchange salary sacrifice scheme sees the company benefit too, and if you were to get a staff ticket it will cost well over £100 rtn for a ticket to Spain (easyJet sells spare capacity off at £5 plus tax! So about £33rtn and they still make a tenner). Private Heathcare they advertise as a benefit - it isn't, it is a corporate discount of around 20% much like a corporate gym membership. Why do you not get Heathcare provided if you are such an important assert to them? Maybe because they do not really care for you if you become ill. This discount was pushed through with a massive fanfair after no consultation with the PLOG. Perhaps pilots would have preferred less of a payrise and Private Healthcare instead? The business has no way of knowing or indeed the inclination to find out what its people want from the pot.

Cabin crew treatment by the firm and CRM across the business is verging on scary and is old fashioned. Annual refresher training is not conducted with cabin crew, and indeed I was never trained on cabin crew / cabin emergency procedures with the cabin crew in my time there. Even at a basic level, some crew have had to buy there own winter coats for which they cannot claim back. There can be a single pilot mentality which sadly impacts flight safety in the commercial world.

They are also very fast to dismiss their people and suspend them. The whole of the pilot industry knows that as word travels so fast!

Flight safety - it is not an open or transparent culture, more of a fear culture. If you submit an ASR, the big big boss gets an email with your details and you are CC'd in. It is not a truly confidential system.

There are a stream of pilots leaving Jet2 to competitors like Thomson, Thomas Cook and naturally course BA. You have to ask why people are so desperate to leave though? Some are even paying bonds back (watch out for the terms of these bonds too, they are very one sided and written absolutely in Jet2s favour!). Perhaps it is not about pay, people want to be looked after, cared for and have respect for the business they work for... This is totally lacking at Jet2 I am afraid to say, and until they listen to their people and invest in them - it will never change!

Pay wise... Half pay during training for some, others on 70% contracts, others on 100% from day one. No allowances during training (even if you do get a travelinn bed!) - come on, it sets a bad tone from day one. The tightness is unbelievable compared to what is actually NORMAL at other airlines, including the regionals.

In fairness what is good?! A local base? Half price sandwiches on board when you get called at the end of an airport standby to go to TFS? And some of the lovely people! I really hope it improves for you and that the company becomes more transparent and less Soviet! Good luck.

If you are applying, then good luck. Just do not leave your current job with your eyes closed!

[H44]

I agree with a lot of what you say Stockportonealpha. There will be probably be Jet2 ers coming on here to dispute what you say but having worked at other airlines and at Jet2, there's a lot of truth in your post sadly, and many of your points are what pushed me and many others to seek pastures new. From a passenger's point of view Jet2 are great - unfortunately they fail to recognise their most valuable asset - their front line staff.

[Jet2_320]

I left Jet2 slightly less then a year ago for exactly the reasons written above. As you say the good bit is the local and relatively small base where everybody in the base knows each other, but in the end, it was all the other reasons you mention why I and so many others have left.

I do however disagree with your Training statement, if you are lucky enough to find yourself in the simulator with one of the EDI trainers or ex BMI baby trainers you will learn a lot and walk out with a positive feeling. They are the real trainers!!! For most of the others, including the one who will sooner rather then later reply to your statement, I'm afraid you are absolutely spot on.

[Mr Good Cat]

Well I guess it depends on what seat you're sat in, and what luxuries you have been pampered with at your previous operator.

From the viewpoint of a DEC on 100% contract at base of choice, it's probably the best deal going.

I've worked for two of the world's biggest airlines previously. I got paid more there, but work and home life is far happier here.

The salary is good enough, the perks are okay, the staff travel is crap. The people I work with are nice, and the rosters are far less fatiguing than what I've done previously.

Training is good (from what I've experienced so far) and the guys that I've met from HQ have been a pleasure to deal with.

Maybe things were not so good here in the past, but not my place to say as it was before my time.

[3bars]

I was right seat in Jet2 - have to admit that, like any airline, it has its problems.... however training was not one of them. The TRI / TRE's are generally good guys. The training was professional and far above the standard of the legacy airline I now work for. In fact, I rely heavily on what I learned there to keep me out of the poo now!

[Flying Wild]

RHS at Jet2 is what you make of it. If you sit there day in day out with your thumb up your behind just cruising along, you'll obviously struggle come time for upgrade.
I'm staggered by how often it's commented that I'm doing things other FOs don't do. All I'm doing is my job to the best of my ability!
If you put the effort in to learn your job and some of what the LHS is doing, you take ownership of your development. It then lessens the load when facing command as you'll already be familiar and comfortable. I'm talking about running your sector as PF from briefing the crew /dispatcher, completing the tech log for the skipper, liaising with ops, welcome PA, etc. Obviously you pick the time and place as there are those who are more receptive to this than others...
You may read this and think seriously, completing the tech log is a big deal? Well I'm firmly in the belief of taking care of the little things so the big things take care of themselves.

[Mr Good Cat]

From my experience almost all the FOs at Jet2 are extremely competent, particularly the ex-apprentice guys and girls. What they lack in flying experience, they more than make up for in enthusiasm and receptiveness.

There's only been two truly questionable individuals who to be fair were not lacking in raw ability just with a work ethic too poor to get through a command course and to continue to be successful in that command (you're always learning). Those individuals were looking for pastures new in both BA and also overseas.

I've heard a few things about the way things were run previously with regards to the command selection and maybe there were some genuine gripes but it seems the company are now getting there with the new command development program.

[HidekiTojo]

Though no longer a nationalised corporation, BA obviously still run the national service of relieving other companies of tedious, arrogant or work shy individuals - in the last twenty years, it as worked every time we've had someone who we'd rather they push off. (Not to suggest for a moment, that all BA recruits are work shy, I hasten to add).

Funny isn't it that you say that, it tells us a great deal about you as an individual and also about jet2.com.

On speaking to most jet2.com pilots their top reason for working there is the fact that they usually don't fly much more than 500 hrs per annum, then you show up to tell us that the ones that willingly leave for BA where they shall fly more like 900 hrs per annum, they are apparently the work shy.

[Flying Wild]

That would be done as one month paid, one unpaid. Pension contributions would remain unchanged.

[Honest Fr@nk]

Duggee. There are options for winter off. Up to 5 months if you so choose. BUT.....IT ISNT GUARANTEED. It all depends on their "operational requirements!" Ie, how many they need on standby. You can apply for it and see what they come back with in terms of which months they will let you take off. You can opt for the BOGOF offer as mentioned before and take up to the 5 months off(each month you take off is paid at 50% salary for those months only) or take the 2 months off at 90% salary or 4 months off at 80% salary that is spread throughout the year.

[The Cleaner]

Anyone NTR in the hold pool been given offers recently?