Jet2 Autumn 2014

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Sorry to continue the APU off/on for one more post, but please bear in mind that there are many airports where APU use is banned from a short period after on blocks to a similar short period prior to push and start. I assume Ivan that you are referring to Nice, I'm afraid that is one such destination.

[Chesty Morgan]

Hot is subjective so I can't define it. When I decide as the captain that I need air condition the APU stays on. That is the policy. There is no SOP to
Quote:

Well done you!

For knowing what I'm talking about?

JFP, if the airport requires the APU to be shut down they should supply conditioned air, if there's no air available there's usually a caveat that the APU can stay on. What's the case in Nice?

[MrHorgy]

Inferring we have no consideration for passenger comfort is toss. I have wandered after ground crew on a number of occasions to get them to plug the air con in, and it is the reason we all got trained on the 300 to freeze the cabin in descent. At least new 800s will make the situation better.

As for it being SOP to turn the APU off.. It is. But if its too hot, we have the authority and backing of the company to deviate, as does every single pilot worldwide regardless of airline. Its called judgement.

[rudolf]

Loving the multi-page APU ON/OFF debate!

Seriously chaps, get a grip.

[TRY2FLY]

This is not the place for an APU on/off debate. Can we knock it on the head please.

Where the hell are the moderators

[Honiley]

Where the hell are the moderators

Probably laughing at you Jet2 clowns!

[2 Whites 2 Reds]

The question now really is will the arrival of 27 new shiny NG's stop people leaving?

Is that a joke?

[tonker]

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/airlines-complain-pilot-shortage-created-andrew-schmertz

The new aircraft are great news, but ultimately i'd rather be just as happy on something older, on more money, with a better pension, eating crew food in a spanking uniform whilst thinking about where I'm going to enjoy my staff travel.

Or brand new, and all of the above.

[Speedoneeighty]

So you failed the BA selection?

[Hogg]

Probably working or spending time with family and or friends or even maybe having a pint.
None of us spend all day constantly refreshing.

Use the report post button.
:ok:

:D @Honiley ;)

[Artie Fufkin]

The question now really is will the arrival of 27 new shiny NG's stop people leaving?

Of all the things that Jet2 pilots "moan" about, a lack of shiny new NGs is towards the bottom of a very long list. So no, probably not!

[2 Whites 2 Reds]

scratching....

As Artie rightly says and as I'm sure you know, shiny new aircraft is something that's a VERY long way down the list of things that people want. I'm genuinely pleased that the business is moving forward with the first steps towards fleet renewal while adding some capacity to the flying program. That being said, the financial pressures that come with new aircraft will pose a whole new challenge for the big wigs at LFFH and I'm pretty certain those at the coal face will suffer as a result. After all, the shareholders will be expecting a serious return on this enormous capital expenditure.

At a time when morale is through the floor and people on both sides of the door are either leaving or seriously looking to leave, I for one would be rather troubled if it came to light that any level of management were naive enough to believe that announcing some replacement 737's will make people think twice before hitting the 'submit' button on their BA, TOM, TCX, , FR, EK, TAG et al applications. Just my two cents worth and time will of course tell.

[The Crew]

Interestingly (or not) Jet2 still sending out emails re exciting opportunities for rated/ none rated DE crews. I know guys who have thousands of CM1 time that have heard zero, despite completing the assessments. Not even a PFO.

infant they are still receiving the same emails, re exciting opportunities.
.Its a Bizarre flying world we live in. Little choice. So impersonal. :=

[DDobinpilot]

Hi guys,

Apologies if this has been covered before, but just wondered, after training and on a 100% contract, what sort of monthly take home pay can a year 1 FO expect? I see the basic salary is about £50k.. What sort of money does hourly flight pay add on etc?

[2 Whites 2 Reds]

Hi guys,

Apologies if this has been covered before, but just wondered, after training and on a 100% contract, what sort of monthly take home pay can a year 1 FO expect? I see the basic salary is about £50k.. What sort of money does hourly flight pay add on etc?

Expect £3200 ish in the Summer, £2850 ish in the Winter. (After pension contribution)

Road shows gathering pace, there's one planned at EMA now. Competitive salary on offer apparently.

[B737900er]

What about the great benefits package?

[Twiglet1]

Tonker even if u did have a better salary, pension, food, staff travel and new aeroplanes you would still moan because that's what (British) pilots do best. Only if you have been made redundant x times do you realise how lucky you are to have a salary paid on time. Many crews I suspect see Jet2 as a moving on to better things airline particularly FO's and some see it as a career airline depending on their own situ. Fact is UK AOC's are ever dwindling and I personally think it's great Jet2 are buying something new probably for the first time in its history. There are also a lot of guys and girls who work twice as hard as you Nigel's and on a lot less pay. Although they are probably used to moaning Nigel's many who have joined recently only to realise that the grass is not so green and cor blimey there's a lot of roster disruption at Jet2 would you believe. The only good news is in what say six weeks you'll be moaning your not flying and got too many standbys
Rant over

[gorter]

Twiglet,
I had retired but I decided to come back one last time. The only people who are happy at jet2 are those that have been made redundant multiple times. It can't get no worse. Except being made redundant again (just it can). Everyone else either wants to leave or hasn't yet realised that.

Me I work less earn more have a better pension, see my family more and most importantly, My roster isn't a wet rag for screwing to play target practice with.

Oh and Mr good cat. When those rose tinted glasses finally wear off. Don't come crying here. You'll have the same bar stewards as managers but with only half the cash.

[ICEHOUSES]

Does anybody know the situation regarding annual leave at Jet2 for new recruits, is this available to take anytime of the summer or are new recruits made to take leave in the quiet winter period?

[mini-jumbo]

I believe you'll be bound by the same rules as everyone else - that is max 9 days in the summer. Depending when you join, you may be too late for the closed bidding, so might have to try your luck with free bidding (there is very little leave available in the summer during the free bidding period).

[Chesty Morgan]

Gorter, you can, of course, supply us with the data you gathered from everyone else...can't you?

I'm interested to know how you claim to be able to tell me what I'm going to want to do in the future!

:mad: head.

[Jet2_320]

Gorter doesn't need to, as you know yourself most of the first officers are openly discussing their plans to leave the company in the flight deck. Maybe I do encourage them a bit by talking about my own plans to pack up and move the family to the desert, but apart from a few new joiners all the experienced fo's I've flown with have applications in elsewhere.

Even if half the negative views in this topic would be true, they should at least rease a few eyebrows and make potential new joiners think twice.
The people defending the company in this topic are generally not the line pilots but some trainers and managers.

Everybody has to do what he/she thinks is best for him/her. But don't say you haven't been warned!

[Chesty Morgan]

Not everyone then, which was the claim?! Gorter certainly does need to prove his assertions as he claims to speak for everyone else which includes me. Otherwise it is just unsubstantiated BS.

Of course, you should heed your own warning if and when you end up in the desert.

[Jet2_320]

Cheers for the warning, I fully appreciate what you are saying. the decision isn't easy but with the continuous stream of roster disruption from April till November we decided it hopefully will improve the quality of our family life. I still have one option with another UK airline which hopefully materialises but if not the desert it is.
It was a great company when I joined long time ago but in the last 3 to 4years has transformed itself (below industry pay, pension, benefits, maximum roster disruption and way to many groundings for my liking). It's a shame since it was such a great place to work and has all the potential to become one if only....

[Ivan aromer]

It was a great company when I joined long time ago but in the last 3 to 4years has transformed itself (below industry pay, pension, benefits, maximum roster disruption and way to many groundings for my liking). It's a shame since it was such a great place to work and has all the potential to become one if only....
+1.
The downward spiral started (IMO) with the removal of a previous DFO. At least he could fly (and jolly well by all accounts!) Gone but not forgotten.

[matt85]

Re: Roster disruptions/general bullsh*t at Jet2.

I have followed this thread for a while as one of a number of experienced yet young expat FO's seriously considering a return home due to lifestyle. I have well and truly had my fill with my current lot and would be looking at either a UK based LH e.g BA, or waiting for VS, or a northern based SH e.g Jet2, especially seeing as a command is still light years away.

I am well aware of the tangibles e.g salary, block hours etc, but could somebody be kind enough to elaborate a little bit as to what sort of "crap" we are talking about with respect to things like roster disruption? Preferably with real life examples (as far as anonymity will allow). Weekends off during summer etc? Can they change your days off? "Crap" is after all, entirely relative and I would be grateful to see whether the "different shade of brown" experienced at J2 would adequately compensate for the significant pay cut.

PM's if preferred,

Best regards.

[mini-jumbo]

Roster disruption is as you know, subjective. Some people experience little disruption, and others seem to have it all the time.

The disruption that I think most are referring to are the constant changes to duties, anything from an early changing to a late to whole weeks changing after the rosters are published. The main gripe is contactable duties being rostered at inappropriate times (like, for example on day 6 of a run of duties - clearly, if it were intended as a contactable, it would be pointless, as you be into days off by the time they could use you.), but what will often happen, is a couple of days before said contactable, it'll change to a standby, and then often a flight.

The rostering in general is poor - regular earlies to lates (eg, 2-3 earlies followed by 2-3 lates with no days between) - similar story the other way round, usually with a stby in-between. Many fatigue reports on the issue, but no noticeable change in this pattern.

There is no roster agreement, only a policy - with plenty of clauses like "subject to operation needs", "when operationally possible" etc.

There are no bid systems, or preferences, so you can't bid for lates or earlies - roster swaps can be difficult to achieve.

Weekends off - well, it's pot luck. If you play the RDO game consistently, you'll get some weekends off, but if you forget or whatever, there are no guarantees of a weekend off. I think there used to be a policy of 1 weekend off per month, but my roster says differently. No weekends off this month.

Days off are fixed, they don't change these, but you can expect to be contacted on a day off to see if you'll work when they're short.

The winter however is blissfully quiet - although I'd expect to see some changes in the coming years - new aircraft, whilst a welcome development, undoubtedly mean a greater winter schedule (not a bad thing), and probably the loss of the "friendly flight times" slogan - deep nights ala Thompson I'd imagine.

Overall, it's not a bad place to work. There are pro's and con's. Think will need to improve though, as leaky buckets aren't sustainable - you can only shovel sand so quickly, eventually the bucket will empty.

The grass is rarely greener, more a different shade of brown.

[matt85]

Many thanks for the reply mate, it's greatly appreciated.

[Chesty Morgan]

Ref. contactables. That is how they're supposed to be used! They should not be used to enable a late to early change, multiple fatigue reports seems to have stopped this practice though but if I get one a quick call to Flight Safety gets it changed.

On that point lates to earlies and vice versa seem to be falling out of favour and I seem to be getting blocks of earlies or lates, usually 3 or 4, then 2 or 3 days off. I haven't had an early to late or late to early mid week change since the beginning of summer.

Of course, I'm at the best base where they treat us better. ;)

Contacted on days off - well don't answer the 'phone if you don't want to be contacted! They don't even bother me know as they know I won't answer.

[mini-jumbo]

@Chesty Morgan

No - a contactable is a period where the company can call you, to advise of a duty starting no earlier than 10 hours from the start of the contactable period. It is not another word for a stby. I could quite reasonably have planned to be out of the country on a contactable. A rostered contactable should not change to a stby or a flight 2 days prior.

You've obviously had a great roster this summer then. Thus highlighting the inconsistencies. May - July, the vast majority of weeks for me was 5-6 days, with 2 or 3 day off in-between, hitting 100 hrs in 28 days.

I don't answer my phone on a day off, nor reply to the text messages - but it's still an interruption on a day off....

Cheers,

[Chesty Morgan]

No duty should be changed in an ideal world but a Contactable is just a duty subject to change like any other.

No, they can't call you off a contactable like a standby but they are well within their rights to change it ahead of the actual duty providing minimum rest is complied with.

https://www.chirp.co.uk/upload/docs/Air%20Transport/ATFB%20114%20.pdf

Page 6.

Before you shoot me down I like it as much as you, but thems the rules.

[PURPLE PITOT]

Just before i left, about 9 years ago, we had a rare sunny summers afternoon, and a group of about 10 pilots met up for a beer in the local pub (the ship iirc).

mid session, someones phone rang. You guessed it, screwing " help me obi wan, you are our only hope". " sorry, i'm in the pub, can't help" was the reply.

10 seconds later, another phone rang. Yep, same "help me" call. Same reply.

10 seconds later, yup, same again.

10 seconds later, same call to another chap, same response, but added" don't bother calling Pew, Pew, Barleymagroo, Cuthbert, Dibble, or Grubb, coz they are all in the pub too!"

Sounds like not much has changed.

[mini-jumbo]

Thanks Chesty - I'd missed that CHIRP article.

Perhaps they should just change contactable to "Flexible Standby" and then we'd all know where we stand.

[16024]

Well ok, then. Maybe the question is not so much whether contactable is a legal, or even reasonable rostering tool, but will people continue to put up with it, if there are other options.
Ditto, earlies to lates (or even earlies to lates to earlies to lates...).

[Mattyfab]

Well after a good couple of hours reading this thread about the airline I hope to one day fly for, I'm not much wiser on whether they are a good company or not to work for. It appears there are certainly some bitter ex employees on here that can't seem to let the past be the past, but also some current employees that seem to be level headed and say how it is.
For a student pilot like me, self funding my way through my training, it is quite disheartening to hear about the state of the industry from the people at the coal face......but it's always been my dream to fly the in the airlines, so onwards and upwards :ok::ok:

[JaxofMarlow]

Good luck to you Mattyfab. Don't be too harsh about those that have been there and had the stew. After you have had 3 airlines go bust on you and had to spend a few years getting sand in your privates to return earning less than you were in your very first flying role you will start to develop the art of cynicism. Most of us joined because it was our dream, but dreams will not pay your mortgage (if you can even get one with a huge training loan over your head), feed or pay for nursery for your children when you are old enough. And the reason it is such a mess is because so many companies are under such pressure (either necessity or shareholder) to cut costs that they cannot resist the temptation to take advantage of the flood of kids happy to buy their way onto the flight deck thereby forcing down the terms and conditions for all.

[WX Man]

What's the criteria for an F/O to become a SFO? And what's the take home like for a SFO?

[mini-jumbo]

@WX Man


6 months in the company post FLC


2000 factorised hours


"Have demonstrated the required professional performances during Simulator and Line Checks" - although there is no definition of what that actually means.


It adds just over 6k gross to your salary.

[Callsign Kilo]

Having joined Jet2 in the LHS, I've been happy with my experience so far. I know saying that will ruffle a few feathers but there you go. Yes, there are a few quirky ways of doing things, the roster pattern isn't fixed and the lack of weekends off seems universal to most but that's largely it. Note to self - make better use of the RDO system! On a positive, I now live under 30 minutes away from my base, I'm enjoying the flying and I haven't seen too much roster disruption at all (seems base dependent so I'm not arguing that it doesnt occur). I've had a pretty positive experience with the leave system, which was non existent in my last company. In comparison, there are some later starts and even later finishes and the threat of deep into the night flying like TOM or TCX may loom with the new aircraft arriving; as does wet and damp leasing programs. I have no experience with this type of flying however the new aircraft order is encouraging and I feel happy about the commercial approach that the company has adopted. There'll be some new challenges but ordering new metal is what was required and it will ultimately move the business forward.
Winter is around the corner and, at present, this delivers a quiet period with very little flying. Having flown 800-900 hours a year through all weathers, winter ops etc that's just fine by me! And yes, I'm on 100% permanent before anyone asks.
Everywhere has its problems and in certain circumstances this may depend upon where you live, where you are based and what seat you fly from. So far, I've been pretty happy with Jet2. Sorry to go against the grain here however pprune does a great job in harbouring negativity across the board. I've equally been as guilty in the past.

[Mattyfab]

Thanks for the positive and up to Date opinion from within Kilo.

[nitefiter]

Can anyone give me a heads up on how to prepare for or revise look up or better still find the answers to the on line joining tests,
DEC rated.

[what-to-do]

Jet2_320

If you think your quality life will improve for you and your family by moving to the desert, you are very misguided. Your quality of life will be the first thing to go south.

Why do you think so many people are leaving here to get back home? Many of my colleagues have gone to Jet2 & Ryanair to improve their quality of life. Flydubai has lost over 50 pilots by August this year, overtaking the 48 that resigned for the whole of 2014. Emirates is also haemorrhaging pilots too, all for the same reasons.

Don't be fooled by the tax free salary either. Rent here is astronomical, fuel has just increased by 25% in one hit, VAT is just around the corner and the list goes on and on.

My advice is just be careful what you wish for.

[Turbopropman]

Received an email this morning to say my application will be processed within 4 weeks :ugh:

[papazulu]

2000 factorised hours

...which consist of...?

PZ :ok:

[RAFAT]

Callsign Kilo - Thanks for adding a touch of balance to the thread. :ok:

[Flying Wild]

...which consist of...?

PZ :ok:

Type of Flying---Factorisation

In House, On Type---1.00
External, On Type---0.9
Multicrew TP---0.75
In House, Different Type---1.00
External Jet, other types (Multi pilot)---0.8
External Jet, other types (Single pilot)---0.75
Multi crew rotary---0.75
Single crew rotary---0.4
Single crew <5700 kg---0.4
Previous Flight Engineer experience---0.25

[zerotohero]

@ Turbopropman

Be careful what you put on PPRUNE. Banging your head against a wall after a comment of what you got and when it would not be difficult to work out who you are and drop your application if it offended someone!

I'd be editing that if your after joining

[heliusac]

Received an email this morning to say my application will be processed within 4 weeks :ugh:

That's not a get lost though is it? From experience that can mean you never hear anything again or you get a call soon for interview so chin up. Keep monitoring your application status as a change can be good news too.

[worldoffe]

Hey Guys!

I have a question regarding the requirements for the NTR FO position.

Does anybody know if 500 flying time on any AC + experience on a medium to heavy jet are required OR 500 flying time + experience on a medium heavy jet are required?

Thanks!

[zerotohero]

I had to read your post 3 times. Did you not ask the same thing twice?

[worldoffe]

Hey, yeah I know its a bit confusing.

No, I was asking two different things actually regarding the requirements.

A) 500 hours on any aircraft + experience on a medium to heavy jet

or

B) 500hrs + experience on a medium to heavy jet

After reading the job ad again, I think A is required :ok:

Greetings

[The Crew]

Lets not assume, but I would guess that CaptKilo could well be on a certain final salary pension scheme, to supplement his J2 crumbs :E

[worldoffe]

Can anyone working for jet2 tell me more about the present situation / demand for NTR FOs?

Thank you :)

[mini-jumbo]

There is a demand for FO's NTR or TR.

It's going to be a busy winter for training.

[guvey101]

Hi, would anyone know if they are looking at potentially hiring ab-initio second officer's?

Thanks

[JM926]

Hi, would anyone know if they are looking at potentially hiring ab-initio second officer's?

Thanks

Guys from flight school with a MEIR etc are currently recruited through the apprentice scheme

[Dutchformula]

Anyone know how much longer theyre gonna wait until responding to the applications? Maybe until the summer starts?

[drag king]

Anyone know how much longer theyre gonna wait until responding to the applications? Maybe until the summer starts?

Went to one of their open-days, apparently TR/experienced/DEPs took the front seats in the recruitment process. What I have been told is that they are now going thru the NTR applications so everyone shall expect an answer within 4 weeks from the day they received the "application under review" email.

Best luck

DK ;)

[JACK14]

Hello, anybody of the applicants did the online assesment ?? (Numerical reasoning , verbal reasoning, personality test )
It is a part of application or you should wait a responce before do it ?
They just write me that my application is under consideration.

Thanks
J

[Mr Boombastick]

Just have a couple of questions if anyone currently at Jet2 could help with....

Im a rated FO with about 2500 hrs, I'm looking at coming over.

How long could I expect to spend in the RHS?

There is a mention on PPJN re Command Assessments and why people are leaving...
"For FO it is because an unhealthy percentage of 64% of command assessments are failed"

36 out of 100 seems like a lot of guys not meeting the mark, is this true?
And if so can you expect support and a structured process to get you up to the required standard?

Many Thanks

[Penworth]

This is exactly something they're addressing at the moment with the upgrade process being modified and a support network being put in place to ensure those put forward for command have a decent chance of getting through. With 2500 hours you should be able to get in the process within a year or so with a couple of good sims.

[Mr Boombastick]

many thanks for the quick response

[Vulka]

They have so many roadshows dates in the next weeks,are they so desperate or what...

[HeartyMeatballs]

I'm not sure it's a matter of being desperate. I think it's just a chance to get as many 737 rated guys applying as it seems they'll only take NTR guys if they're desperate - it would seem they're not quite there yet.

I'm not sure how fruitful these roadshows will be. At EMA and EDI the only realistic chances of anyone moving to LS from other airlines based at these places are Ryanair, and they'll struggle to get anyone on a 5/4/5/4 pattern there to move to LS. I can't imagine anyone at Thomson jumping to LS. There's no point targeting EZY/TCX airbus drivers neither as they require conversion training and can't see what exactly would pull them to LS.

It just leaves out of work guys but the amount of out of work rated guys must be fairly minimal these days.

Maybe they'll bite the bullet and take on NTR folk. Here's hoping anyway! However I notice he ads do mention a fully bonded type rating if required, so who knows.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Hearty -

Not sure you are right with regards to FR pilots joining Jet2, there have been many over the last few years, and there is still a trickle of them moving over.

There are plenty of NTR pilots being recruited too, in both seats.

[HeartyMeatballs]

That's interesting to hear. I'm thinking about going along to the EMA one during the week. Anyone got any information as to what it entails? I've already submitted an online application and it has been under consideration for some months now, so I'm happy to do anything necessary to speed up the application and get an answer either way.

[cgwhitemonk]

They are recruiting TR and non TR for both seats, i have been to Leeds twice in the last few months for assessments etc. The whole process has been a bit long winded and the communication could be better but overall very friendly and straight forward. All of the pilots and recruiters I have met and spoken to have been very transparent and helpful. They are currently filling courses for Jan/Feb but will be running courses every 3 weeks i think until June so there is plenty of time to still interview and go through.

I will be joining in the new year and am very much looking forward to it. Hope that info is of help to some people. If anyone could enlighten me on the following it would be appreciated:

As an experienced joiner, circa 3000 tt, whats a realistic time to command?
If you join as an FO on the 75, could you spend 2-3 years in the RHS and then bid for a command on the 73? (this is what i would ideally like to do)
Apparently this 70% contract malarky should be for max 16 months... Is it likely to be shorter/longer?

All opinions welcome :ok:

[heliusac]

As an experienced joiner, circa 3000 tt, whats a realistic time to command?
If you join as an FO on the 75, could you spend 2-3 years in the RHS and then bid for a command on the 73? (this is what i would ideally like to do)
Apparently this 70% contract malarky should be for max 16 months... Is it likely to be shorter/longer?I think you have to go through the SFO bit first but that won't be too long with your experience if you are doing well online and in the sim.

As said earlier the whole command process is being redesigned and it's a case of if/when you meet the requirements you apply. The big difference with the new system is that rather than being thrown in at the deep end with no help, you are now mentored and developed as you near command so success rates should be much higher. I would suggest that 757 experience is far more scarce than 737 time so that may be your trump card. That said when the 757 bases were moved they gave the crews the option to move or swap fleets to stay put.

70% is pot luck, some hardly any time others as you say 16 months.

[squawkident.]

Hi,

I had the "please wait four weeks" email 4 and a half weeks ago.
Anybody have any updates?

[squawkident.]

Thanks. Do you know if they were rated or non rated?

[cgwhitemonk]

Mixture of both, a lot from Flybe

[squawkident.]

Anybody have any information on the selection day itself? Interview styles and sim check?

Thx

[Fly Better!]

Could anyone kindly point me in the direction of details for the recruitment roadshows mentioned above?
Thanks

[zerotohero]

I believe the last one was at EMA on Tuesday. Details were on Jet2.com so check there for future ones.

[DDobinpilot]

Hi guys,

Just wondered about something, I apologise if this has been mentioned before. If we're looking purely at pay (not looking at other benefits/lifestyle at all), comparing Jet2 to someone like BA, for an experienced guy with 2000+ hours who could reach a command within 2-3 years if you include flight pay a commander at Jet2 will be on around £90k - £100k? (With a basic salary of £83k) In order to get this at BA if my research is correct this would take about 10 - 15 years or longer..

Am I correct in my calculations? If so this seems a far better option in regards to pay for someone in their 30's with experience, rather than going to BA to start at the bottom of a huge seniority list?

[EMB-145LR]

I can't answer in terms of Jet2, but at BA commands on the A320 at Gatwick are going very junior, currently about 4-5 years. However, it looks like that is going to drop further as there haven't even been enough bids to fill all the available Gatwick P1 slots this year. Heathrow is currently running at about 7-8 years for an A320 command. For long haul you're looking at at least double that, but probably even more. My last captain (I'm on the A320 at LHR) had been at BA for 18 years and expects to be able to get a 747 command by next year, 787 the year after that or four more years wait for the 777.

All that aside, at BA your take home pay isn't massively determined by which seat you're in. With allowances, a maximum pension contribution and a few other deductions I'm averaging a take home pay of £4,200 a month at the moment. That's as a first year FO. Many guys I know who are on long haul are making nearer £5,000 per month.

It's all a case of how your pay is structured rather than the headline basic salary.

[Penworth]

Many guys I know who are on long haul are making nearer £5,000 per month.


Which is a captains salary at Jet2 and isn't going to go up at all (apart from the odd cost of living pay rise) thanks to the lack of increments.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Not heard any roster rants from Jet 2 crews recently, what's up, is summer over and now the only thing on the horizon is standbys and not coming to work for 6 weeks. :\

[Flying Wild]

Not heard any roster rants from Jet 2 crews recently, what's up, is summer over and now the only thing on the horizon is standbys and not coming to work for 6 weeks. :\

Pretty much spot on.

[taxi_driver]

Not heard any roster rants from Jet 2 crews recently, what's up, is summer over and now the only thing on the horizon is standbys and not coming to work for 6 weeks. :\

Most have simply resigned, with more in the pipeline to leave as BA, TCX and Thomson clear them out...

[B737900er]

Getting paid 100% salary for not touching a plane for 6 weeks doesn't sound so bad, does it?

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

I'd say the lack of roster complaints is down to the significant improvement in the rostering and the increased crew to aeroplane ratio that we have had this year. There has generally been significantly less roster disruption this year than last year:ok::ok:

[finals24]

500hr/year J2 vs 800hr/yr BA = pay/hr very good at J2. Its all a question of what sort of lifestyle you want.

[G-IZMO]

Any news on when this years applicants might hear anything? Or if..... The four week holding e-mail is now about 6-7 weeks old.

[JACK14]

Received today responce about my application fro NTR FO , says they will not be progressing with my application.... No reason.
ATPL , >2000 jet above 50 tons

cheers

[Dutchformula]

I had to log in to find that out as well.

1200TT, rated on 737 and everything

[Chesty Morgan]

Oh yeah, four days of recurrent training at your own base. Torture.

Still, that's about a grand a day that month. :cool:

[fullforward]

Friend of mine: current B777 skipper, more than 5,000hr PIC on type; 4,700 PIC on 767; 3,600 hr PIC 733; 1,000 hr on A320 and so on, more than 16,000 hr PIC on jet airliner over 50t...
Applied as NTR Captain.
He have almost 20,000hr TT, good records and...received - "will not proceed with your application"!!
What they are looking for?:confused:

Cheers

[152wiseguy]

They are looking for people that they think will stay with them long term.. Most likely if you have family ties to the North of England then it will help.. It's a local airline for local people :}

[fullforward]

Hi 152
...a guy with this experience level is looking for his latest job, don't you think?
People over 50 tend to settle down...

[HeartyMeatballs]

So, are any none locals in the running still or is it just people with ties to the north. I'm still in the running but no doubt my application status will turn to PFO soon.

Good luck to all of you guys still in the running and congrats to those who've been successful. I hope it works our for you.

[152wiseguy]

I agree with you fullforward. I wasn't entirely serious with my comment but it does have some truth. Google 'the league of gentlemen' and you'll understand what I meant..

[Chesty Morgan]

"will not proceed with your application"!!


At what point in the process?

[fullforward]

...five weeks after submitting.:ugh:

[HeartyMeatballs]

15 weeks since I applied and I've heard nothing since the email regarding them having a lot of applications to work through.

[fullforward]

Did you went through the online assessment?
Got the results?

What's your experience level and what you're applied for?

Good luck, mate.

[rumour mill]

2.5 years ago I went through selection, even completing a sim check with positive responses from the aircrew conducting the check. Only to spend 2 years in the holding pool. Only to receive a PFO just before this round of recruitment. This year I didn't even get an interview. I had a "you should hear in 4 weeks email" some 2 months ago. And that was the only communication since I applied in July. They really do a good job at making applying a painful drawn out experience.

You see the same complaints about recruiting year after year. Does nobody at Jet2 recruitment see any need to improve the system?

[G-IZMO]

I've been applying for 4 years. I complained about the drawn out process you refer to (quite rightly) at a recent roadshow and I wasn't the only one. They will have good people turning their backs because they simply get fed up with the system.

[Approaching Minima]

Still waiting to hear back from them? Then you might take their full page advertisement in Flight International this week as a slap in the face!

Been like this for years. What a bunch of amateurs.

[Honiley]

Take it as a lucky escape guys. Agree with above, amateurs!

[Chesty Morgan]

It obviously doesn't happen to everybody, perhaps there are reasons people don't hear back. Did you stop to think about that?

[drag king]

Did you stop to think about that?

I did and I think it shows lack of organization and respect towards those that bothered to fill the form and attend their open days, especially when you had been promised at the same open-day that you'd not have been hanging on for much more than 4 weeks.

To say no thanks but no can't be that hard and should not take months.

However we shall respectfully and patiently wait.

DK :=

[The Crew]

Yep many uk airlines recruiting and my experience is that they tend to operate in a similarly disrespectful manner. I blame social media. All airlines want to play the "keep options open" so rather than have a closing date and notification period, they just play dumb. Then if the first guys selected pull out, they can move to the next lot. And with BA in full flow, this will happen more often than not.

I was offered a bunch days to interview for Jet2 . They seem to think we can just come up with a day or two off roster like that.

We dont all sit around on our a$$es all winter , most of us are full roster.

Helps me think what i have now, id be daft to give up . Thank you J2 , Ryan and ThomasC.

[PressTheTit]

Ah just read this threat for the first time, applied ages ago. Profile says my application is still under review (so assume I passed the online tests), also got the email about 2 months ago saying I should hear from them in approx 4 weeks.
Does anyone know what's happening at Jet2 with regards to recruitment? is there still any chance this year?
Does application still under review = PFO?:(

[fullforward]

Mind to tell what you've applied for and your exp level?

Good luck!

[PressTheTit]

NTR 737 FO.
Ex mil 2000hrs majority light ME turboprop

[max_drift]

My application still shows under-review.

Applied shortly after opening, attended an open day and got all the usual comms. Had the same issues last year, 5 months to get a PFO so not holding my breath this time around.

Looking for NTR FO. 2500 TP in the book and I live within walking distance of a Scottish base. We'll see, but...

I suspect I'm far from alone.

[Skystar02]

Hi guys,

I will tell you my experience with Jet2 and my opinion.

I applied, I filled up their forms and submitted all documents they required. After that, I did the ridiculous psico test. After a month I recieved the "now famous" mail telling me that in four weeks I would get an answer from them. Time passed, and finally almost eight weeks later, I got an email from jet2 telling me they decided not to continue to the next step with my application. Maybe those stupid tests were not so ridiculous...:ugh: or perhaps my profile didn't match, or who knows... My flight experience is more than 4000 hours, near 3000 of medium jet and some other from heavy turboprop. All as a First officer.

In my opinion they should explain better (or some) what they are really looking for. They want you to apply, to spend too much time in front of the computer filling up their forms and subimitting documents etc, but they don't say a :mad: about what they really want or how the process is. They should consider your life and what means to accept a new job, in case they say yes.

I apologise for my languange buy I had a bad week...

:ok:Good luck to those who are accepted and accept the job. Maybe you can show some light for future candidates.

[HeartyMeatballs]

For me I applied for NTR FO. Have 1600 ish hours on a A320. Did the tests, found the maths a bit tricky and the psycho test (all 220 questions). Still showing as under review. In the end I didn't get to go to one of their open days.

[Honiley]

Guys - Scratching has mentioned it, why are you queuing to join this company?

There are better options now in the UK, with Northern bases too! Most of this recruitment is down to how many pilots have left/leaving - does this not ring any bells!!?!

Unless you need a job/live next to a J2 base (and job satisfaction not required due other interests!), that is all its good for! Worst T&C's, even worse culture...

[Chesty Morgan]

Honiley, I'm afraid that you're incorrect.

The answer to your first question is most likely because they can and because they want to and is also likely to be none of your business. I'm pretty sure most people are sensible enough to ignore the bitter ramblings of a has been and do some research when they're making career choices and in the end the decision is theirs to make.

The answer to your second question is yes, it does ring some bells (a phrase which means "sounds familiar" by the way). It is reminiscent of what happens at every other airline in the world. People leave, people join and it's a perpetual cycle with peaks and troughs. I'd hazard a guess that your poorly constructed, grammatically incorrect bovine faecal matter won't stop it.

How long is it since you left anyway? You're thoroughly out of the loop and irrelevant chap.

Ta ta.

[Honiley]

All posted with LSM in mind and knowing he'd never resist the opportunity to bite! Never disappoints...

Good luck to all who wish to join, one day the all powerful HR may get it right!

[CaptainSensible]

Nobody does that. You just put the competition out of business and then step in and pick up the bits you want

[heliusac]

There are better options now in the UK, with Northern bases too!
Do tell, where are all these prime jobs then? Where can you get a medium jet job in the UK if you are NTR especially as a DEC?

By the way Manchester is not a Northern base to many of us!:ok:

[Big Tudor]

Ah Honiley dear chap. Nice to see you have rediscovered your sense of humour, even if it is only a sense.

By your admission you do not, and never have, worked for Jet2 and yet you seem free and easy with your disparaging comments about the company and individuals employed there, all the while skulking under your cloak of anonymity. Such behaviour does little to endear you to others, and does even less to improve the image of the pilot profession within the industry. But then again you just don't care who you upset do you, just as you do little to verify facts before spreading your own brand of misinformation and negativity?

Never fear chaps. Air Honiley will soon be along, promising life changing T's&C's whilst cocking a snoop at the pesky ne'er-do-well's who condemn the business model as doomed to failure. Honiley will show all those incompetent airline CEO's how it should be done. All aboard the fantasy bus. :hmm:

[HeartyMeatballs]

I got an email today stating that they have had huge levels of interest in recruitment. The email did make is clear that they are actively recruiting still and positions are still available.

[highfive]

As ive stated before, there is a huge exodus of easa , cashed up pilots from the gulf airlines. Many left the UK/ Europe 15-20 years ago. They can work for pocket money. No mortgage. Huge global experience.
Whats not to like ?
Still , i cant understand the need for continued full page ads in Flight by J2.
Unless they bought the space in bulk , not expecting much interest ...

[Cuillin Hills]

You'll work it out, eventually, high-five.

[PressTheTit]

Does anyone know what deal NTR FOs are being / been offered most recently? Read this undated "GEN" on PPJN
:
Now only offering 100% contract with 3 year reducing bond. Reduced contract available on request.

This is far better than, 4 months half pay while training then 70% for a year.

Thanks

[heliusac]

Now only offering 100% contract with 3 year reducing bond

Not true, 70% contracts offered in the past few weeks.

[drag king]

I got an email today stating that they have had huge levels of interest in recruitment. The email did make is clear that they are actively recruiting still and positions are still available.

Those emails are like the out-of-office ones. Not paying attention anymore...

DK :*

[JM926]

Can any current employees comment on the latest update (always looked at sceptically) to PPJN with regards to f/o sector pay.


Jet2.com pilot jobs news for airline pilots and aviation schools (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Jet2.com)


The update suggests f/o sector pay being increased to meet that of captains. That would be more than doubling the current figures for f/o sector pay.


Anyone know if this update is indeed accurate and correct?

[zerotohero]

I highly doubt that

[Flying Wild]

Nothing been announced or heard formally.

Can any current employees comment on the latest update (always looked at sceptically) to PPJN with regards to f/o sector pay.


Jet2.com pilot jobs news for airline pilots and aviation schools (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Jet2.com)


The update suggests f/o sector pay being increased to meet that of captains. That would be more than doubling the current figures for f/o sector pay.


Anyone know if this update is indeed accurate and correct?

[2 Whites 2 Reds]

Many resignations in, many more in the pipeline. Even the Apprentices are looking around apparently. A substantial (at least 10%) payrise for both seats maybe the only way to temporarily stem the flow while some of the other issues are addressed. But a time when a certain members of senior management are apparently not talking to each other, don't expect much to improve. The very experienced Captains at Jet2 always said it was a company that desperately needed to grow up. How right they were!

To be honest, I enjoyed my time at Jet2 thanks to the people I had the pleasure of working with day to day. We had a really good gaggle of people at my base but when all's said and done, the company is an amateur circus with bottom of the market T's and C's. Go in with your eyes open people!

[mini-jumbo]

Nothing formally announced, so whoever put it on PPJN is purely speculating - or maybe it's been put there to entice more applications - who knows?

Plenty of rumours surrounding increase in pay and terms, but rumours are just rumours - most of us don't believe it until it actually appears in practice. The 10% pay rise one has been going around for months - plenty of time for some official communication to either confirm or deny from the powers to be but silence is the chosen method of communication.

The only thing certain, is that there are still lots of people actively looking for other jobs, whilst many people who have applied are still waiting for news of any kind - and I can't see that trend changing until the company grows up and realises how big it has become.

Day to day working is good fun, with a great bunch of guys and gals, the company just needs to grow up.

[JB007]

Zenon looking for summer contractors too! Email & phone call yesterday!

[highfive]

Its all supply n demand . Period.
The companies " only " 13 years old, should they be forgiven for being lime i assume they are?
If you are having fun atwork then thats 90%
all its about ?

[A and C]

When I left Channel Express in 1999 that is exactly how I described the place, nice bunch of people to work with but the system needs to grow up.

It would seem little has changed !

[Marcus Absent]

It appears that the Zenon pay has increased by approx 10%, giving rise to the speculation that full timers may also benefit. Somehow though.........

[Ivan aromer]

Something is going on; the share price is doing very well. Phillip will be back in the Sunday Times rich list again!

[Ivan aromer]

Someone buying Philip out?
Shouldn't think so!
I understand that he has 42,000,000 shares so dont think he will be after a Wonga loan any time soon!

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Something is going on; the share price is doing very well. Phillip will be back in the Sunday Times rich list again

Suspect it's all related to the interim trading reports showing record profits.

[Honiley]

Bless old Johnny! Still can't see past the 'cool-aid'...

Meeson has nothing else in his life, he won't sell...

[highfive]

Dont get too excited ...
" However, increased losses are to be expected in the second half of the year as our expanding Leisure Travel business invests in additional aircraft, advertising and people in readiness for the summer 2016 season. "

[H44]

Yes, it's the challenge of being able to grow the summer profit to offset the ever expanding winter loss that will be key. The big unknown thrown into the mix next year will be the large investment in brand new aircraft - a big change from their previous operating model. Will be interesting to see if they really can utilise these aircraft efficiently enough to cover their large lease costs and/or loan repayments.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Bless old Johnny! Still can't see past the 'cool-aid'...


Whatever........

We're all sick of hearing it Honiley, you're like a stuck record:\:rolleyes::\:rolleyes:

[Honiley]

Perhaps light aircraft are more your thing Council...say a DO228!?!

[Big Tudor]

And some people's inter-personal skills mean cargo flying is more their thing.

[Honiley]

How funny, people working for Big Phil talking about 'people skills'...

[Trossie]

As an outsider here, Honiley appears to be a boring git with a big chip on his/her shoulder...

[Smokie]

Keep hearing this, is it an upgrade to slightly not so antiquated 73's or A320s that I have heard a wisper of ?

[Busbo]

Keep hearing this, is it an upgrade to slightly not so antiquated 73's or A320s that I have heard a wisper of ?


http://www.boeing.co.uk/news-media-room/news-releases/2015/september/boeing-jet2-finalize-order-27-ng-737-800.page?

[squawkident.]

HI Guys,

Any updates on the latest round of recruitment?

[Honiley]

Yes! A LOT of pilots required!

Resignations still flowing into LFFH! B757 fleet at MAN close to grounded for S16. Damp lease 757 and Airbus already confirmed with more expected.

Guys with start dates heading for TOM/TCX instead, even Pilot Apprentices resigning! S15 joiners not even completed their training yet! And now even calling people they have already rejected! Desperate times in the Piled up Portacabins!

Now those with nowhere to go or make JP work for them will accuse me of all sorts of nasty things, but guys wanting to join should be flowing into LFFH on half paid ground school like there's no tomorrow...

Eyes open for all joiners! INCOMING FROM THE COOL-AID BUNCH!!!!!

[drag king]

And now even calling people they have already rejected! Desperate times in the Piled up Portacabins!


Who's running the HR dept. then? The cast of "Alice in Wonderland"? Can't even be bothered to count the weeks application has been under review anymore...

DK :*

[HeartyMeatballs]

It must be well over six months that I've been under review. As NTR I'd expect to be hired only as a last resort but they must be running out of TRd guys. I hear their trip to the Mid East wasn't as successful as expected.

[2 Whites 2 Reds]

The 757 fleet has about 5 or 6 FO's left at MAN for S16 from what I hear.That's 1 FO per airframe. :eek:

[JB007]

Well, they've made some money from those 'Training Agreements' at least!

Considering how controversial we find bonding, speaks volumes when pilots are prepared to pay them!

[Sciolistes]

It must be well over six months that I've been under review. As NTR I'd expect to be hired only as a last resort but they must be running out of TRd guys. I hear their trip to the Mid East wasn't as successful as expected.
If I had know they were here they might have had an additional attendee.

[2 Whites 2 Reds]

Well, they've made some money from those 'Training Agreements' at least

Indeed they have! Pfffft

[taxi_driver]

Management busy patting themselves on the back for some decent results and toasting the good forward bookings to notice the large numbers of pilots heading for the exit door?

Emptying faster than a broken milk bottle...

[WX Man]

Are they still asking NTR joiners to take 50% through training and then 70% contracts? Or is everyone going onto the 100% now?

I know of a couple of folks who joined straight onto the 100% contract, they were DECs though. Even got 100% through training.

[zeddb]

Joining next year. 75 at MAN and 100% with no reduction for line training period.

Looking at the above posts I expect to be roundly ridiculed but it suits me after more redundancies than I can count and years of long,long commutes. Being 20 minutes away from work will be a blessing for this old geezer as he totters towards retirement and genteel poverty..;)

[Ivan aromer]

ZEDDB
Don't know why there should be any ridicule? The 75 crews are, on the whole, very nice and capable. The CC are excellent, what's not to like on your way to a genteel retirement. Stay away from Leeds, the North Atlantic club, company politics and enjoy the short commute!

[Flap40]

Zeddb are you rated on the 75 or NTR?

[zeddb]

Thank you Ivan, I shall. Been across the pond around 1000 times by now so not really desperate to do it again although the odd day out with a night in a hotel will be ok.

Flap 40 --NTR. I never met anyone who didn't like the 757 so awaiting it with some anticipation. Lots of hours on big (and small) Boeings so shouldn't be too much of a culture shock with any luck.

[Northern Highflyer]

I don’t understand the animosity directed towards Jet2 that perpetuates throughout this thread from time to time. I recently had an assessment with them and was made to feel welcome from the minute I walked in to the minute I left. The guys running the day were friendly, helpful and put you at ease, with no nasty surprises. As far as assessments go, the day was even quite enjoyable.

They give opportunities to people from a wide range of backgrounds and experience and haven’t blindly followed others down the CTC route. For us more mature candidates, that’s a refreshing and welcome change from the norm. Maybe this is different for experienced / type rated folks ?

The company is profitable, expanding, and self-financing, and it offers a good lifestyle for those who want to be in the regions and home every night.

I didn’t get through the selection, but when the rejection came, it was by way of a personal phone call with feedback, not just a “thanks but no thanks” email. Once again, a refreshing and welcome change compared to other airlines I’ve had dealings with.

No airline is perfect, and the T’s & C’s could be better, but my experience of them has always been positive. I’ll prepare for the incoming on my lack of experience / knowledge / etc.

[JB007]

Bad luck NH! The personal phone call, albeit a rejection, is a very nice touch! Give it a go next year!

[A and C]

I think tha animosity directed at Jet2 recruiting policies is largely historic, the selection system a few years back was very badly run with very experienced pilots being sat in front of a computer game type test with flight director bars that worked back to front, this and a bunch of other tests designed to see if a non-pilot was a good training risk may be good for selecting cadets from the X-box generation but us 15,000 hour old farts are not good in front of the games consol !

This policy ended when the management finally concluded that the J2 pilot shortage was due to the rejection of lots of experienced pilots on due to lack of computer gaming skills.

My result from the Jet2 selection was totally successful in that they rejected me and the next job I was interviewed for was, much better paid, flying new equipment and based on my doorstep !............ I wish you a similar outcome.

[DADDY-OH!]

Your post was spot on.:D

From the B757 fleet, some Senior F/O's (mainly ex-DHL) are indeed leaving to go to BA,EK, EY & QR but these are all under 40 years of age & you'll always get that as some people, quite right,ly want to progress to 'National' carriers.
I haven't heard of any going to VAA... yet.

Some are also going to TCX & TOM because these offer Southern UK bases, in-place Scheduling (Rostering) Agreements, Short/Long Haul mix, fairer T&C's in terms of pension contributions, Day Off payments, basic salary & FDA & a major player which is discounted Staff Travel.

I don't know if it's as dire as 6 FO's left at MAN but the remaining guys are all seasoned pro's, each with well over 10 years B757/767 ETOPS & global route experience, generally 40+ in age & are all in the next tranche of Command slots on the B757. More Pilot Apprentices are being trained for the B757, a liberal sprinkling of returnees from the Gulf' & those moving on to 'Bigger Things' coming from turboprop commands being trained up over the winter will ensure that the numbers are back up to normal levels as the season starts. In addition to a smattering of transfers from the B737 fleet.

The B757 Captains are pretty much a settled bunch, with annual totals for Line Captains rarely getting above 400 hours, Trainers do have it tougher with TRI/TRE's shuttling up & down the M62.

The pay is on time, albeit at the lower end of the salary rankings for similar operators. Company is doing well, not over exposed in the Mediterranean trouble spots, no 'Deep' night flights that blights most Charter/IT rosters, they own most of their aircraft outright, they're spending squillions of quids on cockpit & avionics upgrades for the B757 investing in them to keep them for the next 7-10 years & brand new B73NG's to replace the older B733's. They're increasing in size at a cautious rate but the rise in share price glows of cautious, shrewd management. When I joined it was 75p, now its around 525p in 5 years. Forward bookings are way ahead of already ambitious predictions for S2016, it's looking rosy.

The management just needs to give internal upgrades to it's most experienced SFO's, provide competitive T&C's more in-line with its competitors, introduce a Staff Travel scheme & a Rostering Agreement IF it wants to attract & retain its experienced crews.

Because all in all its not a bad job, with fun crews & simple flying.

[Northern Highflyer]

Bad luck NH! The personal phone call, albeit a rejection, is a very nice touch! Give it a go next year!

Very true JB. It made a bitter pill slightly easier to swallow. My application will be in again next time. :ok:

this and a bunch of other tests designed to see if a non-pilot was a good training risk may be good for selecting cadets from the X-box generation but us 15,000 hour old farts are not good in front of the games consol !

A and C

I don't have 15,000 hours but I'm heading towards old fart territory rapidly, so perhaps I need to brush up on my X Box skills. I'll have a word with Santa. :E

[cgwhitemonk]

Any improvements on the randomness of people being upgraded from 70% to 100%? On the 75 in particular.

[Flying Wild]

Pay increase of 4% on basic & sector pay plus £5000 increase for captains from 1 April next year. Also increase on sector payments for longer sectors to £30/sector.

[Busbo]

Pay increase of 4% on basic & sector pay plus £5000 increase for captains from 1 April next year. Also increase on sector payments for longer sectors to £30/sector.

What are the "longer sectors"? Is it the same as the longest sector bracket under the old pay system or a new even longer one?

[Flying Wild]

What are the "longer sectors"? Is it the same as the longest sector bracket under the old pay system or a new even longer one?

>1300NM i.e. Canaries/Turkey/Cyprus/USA on 757

[NewFence]

Not quite.

The old sector pay is the same (<1000/1000-1300/>1300) but there's now an additional >1600nm rate which is £32.

[choc-ice]

Any news about the FO's getting a pay increase? Thanks

[LVL_CHG]

I believe FO/SO it's 4% and £13 for the longer sectors. SFO also get a £1000 increase.

[B737900er]

Friends have told me £1070 add on for SFO's.

They also had a 3% pay rise in October time which was back dated so all in all thats a 7% pay rise. SFO wages won't be far off £65k if you include sector pay.

[16024]

They also had a 3% pay rise in October time

..and many stories were told of the October pay rise, and legends were born that the pay, it did rise, and it was October...

[Station_Calling]

They also had a 3% pay rise in October time

No, they didn't.

[Flying Wild]

They also had a 3% pay rise in October time

News to me. That letter must have been lost in the post and they must have forgotten to tell payroll too...

[B737900er]

My source said it was an immediate payrise of 3% back in june/july time.
Not October like I said so my mistake.

[Station_Calling]

My source said it was an immediate payrise of 3% back in june/july time.
Not October like I said so my mistake.

Your source is talking bo***ks.

No pay rise for any FD after the April one. And £65k for an SFO? Maybe the odd one or two B737 FO's hitting 900 hours, but for almost every other SFO, maybe £62k - AFTER next April's pay rise.

If you don't actually know, why comment?

[Flying Wild]

Maybe the odd one or two B737 FO's hitting 900 hours

...and they would have to be supremely unlucky. The majority are looking at 550-600 hrs/yr. Hard to get to 900 when you do 2-3 flights a month in the winter!

[LVL_CHG]

Sorry. Forgot the £70! :D

[DADDY-OH!]

Trainer's got a pay rise. That may have been in October.

[B737900er]

Daddy-Oh Yes they did, thats why more source said they got a pay rise.

So Station Calling that would answer your question.

Either way £62k a year (including sector) is pretty well paying.

[Cloud Chaser]

Out of curiousity, what sort of increment do trainers get?
PPJN doesn't list things like that.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Could afford an iPhone though!

[Station_Calling]

So Station Calling that would answer your question.

No it doesn't. You said it was SFO's - strangely enough Trainers are different to SFO's...

The only bit you have actually got right is the £1,070.

Get your facts right, or make it clear you are posting uninformed rubbish from more source.

Since April 2015 there has been no increase to SFO salaries. The increase in 2016 equals 5.9% and is from April onwards. At best, and I really mean at best, an SFO might make £62k.

[DDobinpilot]

Sorry if this has been covered but what are the criteria to become an SFO? Is it just time in the company? Or based on amount of hours you have?

[JM926]

2000 hours (factorised) are required for SFO

[DDobinpilot]

2000 hours (factorised) are required for SFO

Many thanks!

[Flying Wild]

2000 hours (factorised) are required for SFO

And six months post final line check after line training, plus pass the upgrade board. People have been turned down.

[Approaching Minima]

Mate of mine used to work for them on 757 fleet as an FO. After 3 years of temporary summer-only contracts he finally got a permanent contract and soon applied for SFO but was turned down because they needed 6 months in the company first, even though his sim reports said he was ready for command. So instead of Jet2 valuing his 5000+ hrs and trying to keep him, they didnt want to "set a precedent" so he just left and went to work somewhere else. Now I understand they are massively short of pilots on the 757 fleet!

[Jet2_320]

I'm pretty sure he is unfortunately not the only one. Pilots and Cabin crew simply aren't valued by the HQ. There is lots of talk about this lifestyle package but so far nothing has materialised and pilots are simply not hanging around to be treated like they do treat us at the moment and have done over the last few years. (with the number of leavers implementing this package is pretty much impossible so they created themselves a nice spiral)

According to the latest PLOG only 8% of the pilots have left and recruitment is pretty much finished. Personally I think most pilots still have to show their hand and with both VS and BA LH recruitment in full swing I would expect at least double or triple this figure of leavers. Leavers of which most will be captains or SFO's with a considerable amount of on type experience.

[Flying Wild]

According to the latest PLOG only 8% of the pilots have left and recruitment is pretty much finished.

If that's so, then it's funny how Zenon rung me up the other day to see if I was interested in a summer contract with Jet2, despite the fact that I worked for Jet2 via Zenon some summers ago, to then be taken on as an employee, all with Zenons knowledge.

[Jaydubya]

Zenon called me too and I have not flown for 7 years with an expired 737 rating!
Are they type rating people? And if so what is the deal?

[JB007]

Just had my 3rd Zenon phone call of 2015! Looking for 757 Captains - apparently they are "doing very well for themselves" and lots of opportunity for permanent positions! 🙄😏

[piggydog]

I had the KB just before Christmas. It's a real shame as I've been applying for years with never even an invite to selection. They have just taken on one of my former students with his freshly printed licence though.

It seems with my 3000 hours and bizjet command, inc 1000 airline turboprop I'm deemed incapable :{

Ah well, off to work.

Happy New Year all!

[fade to grey]

Simple economics.
They'll go for TR and experienced first
They'll go TR and no experience next.

Then anybody else I fancy.
Unfortunately the days of any other flying on types other than that the airline needs counting for anything are long gone, nobody cares.

When I was moving up my citation hrs got me a 146 interview, my 146 hrs got me a 757 slot and so on. I guess it's not like that today

[ATIS]

££££ and hair gel get you a 757/A320

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Piggydog - there must have been something that put them off, plenty of people with very similar experience to yours are joining and going through type rating courses now and over the next few months.

Have you sought feedback?

[Golf--Lima--Papa]

What's the chances of getting MAN base as a new joiner? Or if there's a waiting list how long would one expect to wait before being offered their desired base?

[zerotohero]

MAN is a big base for them... They try to put people where they want to go as that means you will be happy and stay in the company...... I hear a good percentage if not nearly all get there preferred base within a year.

[gorter]

Until you get your command of course when you are promoted out of base "to prove your loyalty" (aka go to the bases that no DEC would touch with a barge pole and Jet2 need them and they know you're not going to turn down a command)

[JB007]

If the numbers required are anything to go by, you'll get any base you want!

MAN cargo and remotes apron last night night looked like a Jet2 equivalent of Aircraft Boneyard!

[DADDY-OH!]

Just what do you mean by that remark?

[Jet2_320]

Happy new year DADDY-OH! Haven't seen you for a while in this topic. I was pleased to read you guys (B757 captains) were pleased with the roster stability last year. Only averaging for this group 40 changes a day and over 150 roster changes a day on 5 separate days last year. How many captains are there on the B757 fleet, around 70? It must be nice to have such a 'stable' roster.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Probably even more pleased to be paid a good salary for not working too hard, changes or not.

[Flying Wild]

Happy new year DADDY-OH! Haven't seen you for a while in this topic. I was pleased to read you guys (B757 captains) were pleased with the roster stability last year. Only averaging for this group 40 changes a day and over 150 roster changes a day on 5 separate days last year. How many captains are there on the B757 fleet, around 70? It must be nice to have such a 'stable' roster.

What you are neglecting to mention is that the majority of disruption related to the withdrawal of Tunisia flights and subsequent reallocation to new destinations. Also, changes to standby times for someone already on standby count as a 'change' for the disruption statistics.

[NewFence]

If the numbers required are anything to go by, you'll get any base you want!

MAN cargo and remotes apron last night night looked like a Jet2 equivalent of Aircraft Boneyard!

Possibly it did but what you fail to realise is that this is winter when, traditionally, Jet2 are extremely quiet. I suggest that is the reason for lots of aircraft parked up, especially at night (which is even more usual) rather than a lack of crew.

[NewFence]

Until you get your command of course when you are promoted out of base "to prove your loyalty" (aka go to the bases that no DEC would touch with a barge pole and Jet2 need them and they know you're not going to turn down a command)

Of course, it was never forced. It was often offered at the whim of someone who is no longer in position to do so but it was always at the discretion of the individual to accept it or not.

It is a matter of fact that multi base airlines often promote with a required base or type change and nothing specific to Jet2.

And yes, some people also choose lifestyle over promotion.

[2 Whites 2 Reds]

I joined Jet2 14 months ago and the company has delivered on everything promised to me at interview, been flexible with leave/roster requests, a sensible reasonably stable roster ( I'm flying half the hours I used to ) , great crews and staff to work with, excellent training centre and training ( previously used Lufthansa training in FRA and easily on par with this ), and base move of my choice granted almost to the month I was told when joining.

It's a sharp expanding company with a keen eye on costs, which I like as that's how you stay in a job. I can't complain at all and consider I've made a very good move.

PHILIP IS THAT YOU?!?!?!

[Ivan aromer]

PHILIP IS THAT YOU?!?!?!👍
Ho Ho!

[FlyingOfficerKite]

E-mail received from the Jet2 Recruitment Team on Christmas Eve included the following words:

'... Thank you for your application for our Non Type Rated First Officer positions. We wanted to update you prior to the Festive break and confirm that your application was still live and under consideration.

Thank you for your patience as we process a high level of interest for these positions, and we look forward to talking to you early in the New Year.

Many thanks'

Nice start to the Christmas break ... !!!

E-mail received today from the Recruitment Team included the following words:

'... We have reviewed your application and unfortunately, on this occasion, we will not be progressing your application further.'

:mad:

[dboy]

@flying officerkite: the same happened to me.

But i must admit, i did find the online test not so easy..

Good luck.

[cgwhitemonk]

Just wondering if someone could clarify where they got the 13 weeks training pay info from?
The last few contracts, including my own, that i have seen state 20 weeks.

[FlyingOfficerKite]

dboy

Thanks for your comments.

But i must admit, i did find the online test not so easy.

Yes, having NEVER failed any aptitude tests in the past, I must admit I c****d up the numerical reasoning - just seemed to have a mental block at the time.

I think the timing of the responses reflects this - my Application/CV brought forth the pre-Christmas response and the last one the effect of the online tests?! :bored:

Anyway good luck to you and all others seeking work this winter.

FOK :)

[HeartyMeatballs]

FOK - sorry to hear about the PFO. I'm expecting mine soon. The numerical reasoning was very tricky. I suspect it'll by my downfall too.

The thing is most currently working will need to be assessed, go through the process and get an offer. They'd then need to give their current employer three months notice (that's what I would have to give anyway). Then 2 months at least for the TR then a month or two for line training. By which point the summer will be over so I can only imagine those who are successful will be for summer 2017.

[FlyingOfficerKite]

Thanks HeartyMeatballs.

To be fair to Jet2, by accepting my application and CV they have shown considerable latitude - although I applied for a non-type rated position this was because my B737 had lapsed several years ago, even though I have over a thousand hours on type. Also I'm no spring chicken!

I can't criticise them in any way - it's my own fault insofar as the online tests were concerned!

FOK :)

[rockeye]

My earlier post, now removed , (although copied and pasted ) was an honest reflection of my personal experience to date.

I was prepared to offer help, advice and tips for anyone wanting to join the company, selection, interview etc but that door I am afraid has just firmly closed.

Good luck to all applying or going through the application process now and in the future.

[420 HB]

Can anyone share on the thread the current situation regarding recruitment. Is it still ongoing? If so, how many Capts/FOs positions are yet to be filled.
What are the T&Cs on offer for NTR?
70 or 100% contracts?
Anyone recently recruited care to post?

[cgwhitemonk]

No idea if they are still carrying out interviews but people are still receiving offers, mostly 70% for NTR, among my colleagues anyway.

[A and C]

As usual at this time of year I got my annual call from Zenon for the J2 contract.

[111boy]

There are interviews in February ...

[nitefiter]

FOK
don't be too hard on yourself mate, as it seems that having over 6500 PIC on type, being current and in a job and having flown it (800 NG) yesterday,will still qualify you for a PFO email.
The lunatics are in charge at this asylum.

[757flyer]

Nitefiter, just because you are qualified does not necessarily make you suitable.

[Twiglet1]

757flyer
From old mates network to the ladies on reception - yes they all count

[Busbo]

The lunatics are in charge at this asylum.

Because hours and recency alone didn't guarantee a job?

Methinks the selection process is working just fine.

[nitefiter]

Not suitable…..er.. no!!!…... I've passed everything…. it was because i couldn't be arsed with doing those stupid tests on time!! i was busy that day planning landing a heavy 800 on a 1700 mtr contaminated runway!!

[Busbo]

those stupid tests

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe those "stupid tests" are near the beginning of the process so it seems unlikely that you had passed everything.

I couldn't be arsed

Yes, quite. We may be getting nearer the reason for your PFO email.

i was busy that day planning landing a heavy 800 on a 1700 mtr contaminated runway!!

You hero.

[111boy]

And I'm not sure what they prove especially if you are a current pilot, clearly you have what it takes brain wise. You could argue that about the sim check too. Group exercises ? Yes please ! Getting a job in this industry is a joke sometimes and the tests don't always appear to select the correct people sometimes.

" you hero " .... Really ? Why would you speak to someone like that ?

Nite, check your pm s please.

[Busbo]

To suggest that because you are a current pilot means you have what it takes "brain wise" is somewhat of a stretch I'd suggest.

I'm sure we can all think of people we've flown with who were perhaps lacking in some way and not people we'd employ if it were down to us, despite the current license in their flight bag. They might be a bit thick, not terribly coordinated or maybe just a total w*****. Either way, hours and recency prove little.

Quite what tests are suitable for the weeding out process is of course up for debate and I'm sure will be for evermore.

However, if a prospective employer has decided that a particular set of tests suits their needs then the act of a potential employee preparing for and passing them tells them more about the candidate than simply the results printout. Whether you think the tests are "a joke" or you "can't be arsed" is actually relevant. There will always be times in life (and on a roster) where we feel the same and people will deal with it in different ways.

The ability to just get on with things and leave all toys where they should be (in your pram) is assessable!

[fade to grey]

It's their train set, so you do what tests they want if you want the job, simples.

You learn humility with experience.

[111boy]

It is amusing how often those tests change. BA used to do psychometric a long time ago, lots of people got rejected and they stopped. Emirates never used to, then it became almost a whole day.

With experience I have learned that selection procedures don't always work very well, HR building their part sometimes.

Yes we have to do them, but we are allowed to moan about them too.

[Callsign Kilo]

It is amusing how often those tests change. BA used to do psychometric a long time ago, lots of people got rejected and they stopped. Emirates never used to, then it became almost a whole day.

With experience I have learned that selection procedures don't always work very well, HR building their part sometimes.

Yes we have to do them, but we are allowed to moan about them too.

Sorry, thread creep here however BA still do psychometric analysis. It's stage one of their process. It may have been refined slightly over the years however it's still very much present. Nowadays, I believe, it's largely continued into stage 2 with competency based interviewing and further behavioural analysis. The process at Emirates is a ridiculous mismatch of all sorts and is more of an endurance test as the main elements are shoe horned into one day.

In Jet2s defence, once the online tests are accomplished, the remainder of the process is very standard. Relaxed interview, group exercise and sim.

I've had experience and success with all three of these. Drowned in the pool with BA, couldn't fatham how I could make EK work with my young family and still very much in the left seat with Jet2 - and happy about that as well!

Good luck to those applying

[zeddb]

Have to agree with callsign kilo. The whole process was as relaxed as it could be given it is all packed into half a day or so. Personally I finished the sim with the beginnings of a pounding headache but then I am nearly 80 and not as resilient as I once was.

As for the online stuff, well there has to be some sort of sieve to filter those who take the trouble to do them and those who "can't be arsed". If you find it all to much trouble to jump through a few hoops before you even join then your attitude to the job is possibly not going to improve over time.

Just my two bobs worth.

[16024]

+1 to the last 4 posts.
Grit your teeth and hope for the best.
Good luck, it is worth it.

[bluepilot]

Jet2: Controversy over airline's £65k lure in bid to poach the RAF?s pilots | UK | News | Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/635325/Jet2-airline-controversy-lure-poach-RAF-pilots-advertising)

[PT6Driver]

Hmmm, would this be the same RAF that just a few short years ago made redundant so many of it's trainee pilots, many just days from completing a very expensive training program?

[RAFAT]

Obviously not a straightforward a move as the article implies, and almost certainly not into the "£65k" left seat.

[Oceanic815]

RAFAT - I'm afraid your information is a little out of date. The LHS salary from Apr will be just short of £100K (including sector and duty pay, but slightly variable depending on fleet/base). They will take you straight to the LHS if you have 1000 hrs Multi Eng Command. If from a Fast Jet background, you will only get RHS, due to having a frozen ATPL. The £65K figure quoted I believe is more like an SFO salary, with FO about £5K less.

The only STORY here is that the RAF News took Jet2's cash to place the advert!

[SCINHead]

RAF Flt Lt in the bracket to leave is circa £46K basic plus £16k flying pay. On top of that is the pension (which although it has been massively spannered about with) which is waaay better than the 6% at Jet2 and is non contributory!!
SFO at Jet2 may well be in the £60-65K bracket, but after pension contributions will be on less.

- What the Jet2 guy will not have to do is spend 6 months/year in sandy places for 4/6/8/12 weeks at a time. Nor will he be buggered about as much. It is definitely an improved quality of life, but I would caution anyone who is leaving for the money alone to evaluate exactly why they are leaving.

[Professor Plum]

SCIN,

That second paragraph is exactly why I'm thinking of leaving the RAF. As well as the fact that a jet2 captain will earn more than I'd ever get paid in the RAF.

Anyone got any details as to the roster? Also, how far from your base do you have to live? I live in Lincolnshire.

Many thanks!

[deltahotel]

Prof Plum. I don't know how close you have to live. I also live in Lincs and for two years flew out of Birmingham for JMC (now Thomas Cook) which was a 90 minute drive. I thought I'd be ok with this but in the Summer when doing consecutive night duties I found it massively fatiguing. With hindsight I should have found a B&B or shared flat or some other accommodation to have dealt with this. If I were to go back to charter ops (which I'm not going to!) I would not want a regular commute of much more than 30 mins or so.

I know that people manage all sorts of commutes perfectly well, but that's my experience - hope it helps.

Best of luck

[Too Few Stripes]

You are expected to be within 90 minutes of your base. This can be either your home or a temporary measure for work eg hotel/B&B.
Hth.

[B737900er]

A SFO will be around £62K with duty and sector without pension contributions so £65k for an RAF bod will be a kick in the teeth for current SFO's.

[Oceanic815]

I can guarantee that there will not be different pay scales for ex RAF and everyone else; that's not the way the company works. I suspect the Daily Express have done the usual journalist thing of rounding up to the nearest £5K to make it sound more dramatic!

[bluepilot]

Delta, big difference with Jet2 is no late night duties (deep night flights) YET! only night flying is the mail and that is only from EDI.BFS and NCL

[Busbo]

Delta, big difference with Jet2 is no late night duties (deep night flights) YET! only night flying is the mail and that is only from EDI.BFS and NCL

You're right that there are no deep nights yet although the mail flights aren't the only ones to be landing at 1 or 2 in the morning.

When flying the mail you can often hear other channex callsigns coming home from the Canaries etc. The difference being that they reported not long after lunch rather than 9ish. Not sure I'd routinely fancy a 90 minute commute after that.

[bluepilot]

True, but far better than reporting at 21:00 to return at 0800 just in time for the morning rush hour :zzz:

[Professor Plum]

Many thanks for the replies. Greatly appreciated.

I guess a 90 min commute might get tedious, but for me it would be a welcome luxury given the amount of time I spend away from home. I guess it depends of what you want from a job etc.

[heliusac]

You are expected to be within 90 minutes of your base.

Is that still the case? I thought it was 2 hrs now with the new FTL's ie 2 hour stby call out?

I live 90 mins away from my base but only commute it in winter as there is so little flying that doing it a few days a month isn't fatiguing. However in summer no chance with regular 6 on 2 off rosters it would be a killer to then drive 90 mins each way on top of a long shift. So a lot of crews have local accommodation for the season.

It's very unlikely they will take Ex RAF people in as SFO's as they don't with anyone else not even experienced on type people. So that £62k will be somewhat less when you join as an FO. Then you will have to do your porridge and apply for SFO like everyone else and command could me many years off especially if you don't have any multi crew jet experience.

That said this was an article in the Mail so who know's what shred of truth is in it? Don't most airlines like ex military people, can't see why it's a big deal of course Jet 2 are going to go after ex mil and the RAF didn't have to accept the advert did they?

[RAFAT]

Oceanic815 - Yes, my error, the article didn't mention left seat, sorry.

[Paper Lad]

Here's my experience of the recruitment process.....

My background, 15000 hours, mostly Airbus, 8000 PIC. Thinking of escaping from the sandpit.

On line application completed late last year followed by short telephone interview and offer of assessment day in mid Jan.

The verbal and numerical reasoning tests completed but I found them quite challenging and the practice examples given in the test don't really represent the difficulty of the actual test. The psyche test is what it is, just be honest.

The assessment day begins with a tour of the offices. I'm not sure of the point of seeing lots of peeps in the call center and at work stations. Maybe interesting for inexperienced guys but for everyone else, it's just a series of offices.

Short company presentation followed by a group excersise and personal interview. I found the group excersise simple. The interview was conducted by two pilots with no technical Q's included and no obvious traps. This is followed by a short debrief and, if successful, off to the sim.

The sim is where I came a cropper. Excersise conducted in 737-800 sim and despite the assertions of the sim profile briefing notes, I found it was being used more as a procedural test than an excersise in learning and crew cooperation. It will be especially challenging for non typed, as in my case, peeps and, if that is the case, I would strongly recommend getting some practice sim time. No feedback is offered after the sim check.

A few days later came a phone call from HR dude telling me that I was unsuccessful and offering feedback and a suggestion to reapply. The phone call was, I thought, a nice touch.

I was surprised at how disappointed I felt with the rejection. After all, I've dealt with Indian monsoons, taking 320 and 330 into Kathmandu, typhoons in the Far East, being threatened by bombs and other not so everyday occurrences but then deemed unsuitable to operate a 757 into Tenerife!

In summary, mostly a nice, friendly bunch of guys, some of whom go out of their way to help you through the process, and you could do a lot worse than take a job with Jet2, especially if it's your first airline job. Would I reapply? I dunno, only time will tell but I've probably 'burnt my bridges' by posting the above.

[cognomultani]

I had a bad experience too with Jet2 .I left the company .But did you have a
summer contract Paper Lad ?

[2 LOW]

Sorry to to hear that. I doubt you have burnt your bridges, go ahead and reapply, it's a great lifestyle choice if you live up north.