Thomson recruitment. [Archive] - Page 2

youthinkso

19th Aug 2015, 11:35

Most of the latest questions have been answered in this history of this thread so take a little time to read it.

the question about an extra £8k in allowances over summer, maybe maximum BEFORE tax.

Bases - those existing pilots with a preference to be at another base get first choice, called standing bid, once those are satisfied any holes left is where new pilots go (well, that's what the agreements say, depends if management are ignoring them or not that week).

Why are Thomson charging for an OCC, great question, simple answer is to save money and they think they will still get the required numbers (we shall see).

That 7K and forced PPY50 for 5 years scheme started 3-4 years ago.

The first lot of recruited PPY50 guys were made permanent full time within 6 months (2013 joiners). The reason for that was because very few permenant pilots wanted to go to Canada and the company gets paid well to send pilots to Canada, so they wanted to extend the offer to PPY50 pilots, the union said if you want them working full time in Canada you make them all full time (all pilots senior to the most junior pilot going), so that is what happened, the first lot of PPY50 pilots became permanent pilots - it is after all what the agreements say. So they told all told their mates how great it was and that is the word on the street.

year 2-3 - their mates all apply for PPY50 and £7k deduction on the expectation of the same happening again, it didn't for some reason the union didn't insist that any pilot senior to the most junior going to Canada be made full time as per the agreement - don't ask me why not, I don't understand why not. As a result these guys have not been made permanent - BA opens recruitment guess who is leaving Thomson.... (

Year 3-4 - Present Day - it is known that the company will do all it can not to make PPY50 guys permanent and its clear that if you go to Canada you don't get made permanent now (??) well you do for that winter so the company can make its handsome money of PPY50 guys being out there, and new PPY pilots get 18.7% extra pay for doing 25% more work (think about that for a minute !!) [their contract is 81.3% pay for 75% work, they upgrade to 100% pay for 100% work] They also get the detachment extras.

Because of the above sequence of events coupled with reduced pension to new joiners now too, the number of rated applicants dropped significantly, I imagine they expect even less applicants this year hence they are forced to open up to NTR, who knows what's next if that is unsuccessful - maybe Thomson will be forced to consider its offering to new pilots to pay them what they're actually worth rather than robbing them.

The time to command is significant if doing the long term maths, you have an FO sat on the FO max paypoint £69k for 10 years, no further increments and then at eventual command they move to paypoint 1 of the captains pay scale (it is now time in rank that determines captains pay, not time in company as per the old pay scales). That is why a lot of the existing FO's in the company on the old payscales are reluctant to move, they will move across to captains pay scale based on time in company (old pay scales), so that 15 years to command figure, I cant see dropping any time soon.

if I had my time again now what would I do, well to be honest I would want to get on a jet, but not in a company that offers below competitive terms and certainly not one with 15 years sat on mediocre pay as an FO with a bunch of deductions.

I would be more inclined to join a company that has mediocre pay and a much shorter time to command (as it goes I don't think any current long serving FO's thought it would be that long but the merger of FCA and BY made it so) - who knows what one aviation is about to do (see previous posts for what that is), once you have that time in the left seat the world is your oyster and with the number of companies increasing their DEC options I think it is only a matter of a few years till the value you can print on those tickets increases significantly coupled with the retirement bulge across the industry.

All personal opinion of course, others will likely disagree.

Good luck

directvector

19th Aug 2015, 12:27

Hi all,
For info, I joined in 2014.
First year was PPY50 with 7k deduction, highest take home pay was £4170 in summer, lowest was £3053 in winter (that lowest month had one flexi, so real lowest could be more toward £2700ish)
Financial year average about £3600 a month.
Again, that's take home pay, in my bank account.
That's FO on the 737, PPY50, with the 7k removed before tax, and was topped up by a few flexis through the year.
Be warned, don't count on flexi, I never do, as it's Sod's law when you need the money, there's none going! With so many being planned to recruit, in my opinion flexi for FO's/SO's will be very limited next year.

I did, and still do put away a couple of hundred all summer to make sure I'm comfortable for winter going into hibernation!!

Hope some real life figures help.

Cheers.

Wodka

19th Aug 2015, 15:26

Thanks to all of you providing info so far, really useful :D

Does anyone know how difficult it would be to get a BRS base eventually?

Is it a big enough base to see regular movement or a dead mans shoes affair?

More lookout

19th Aug 2015, 16:29

Although it may not help, but CWL has always been unpopular and so always has vacancies. As for BRS, well who knows. It really is down to the bid and each years flying program. Why not apply, if you get selected, you'll be given an offer. Make the call then. Sod's law will apply if you don't apply.

Best of luck to all.

Set 1013

19th Aug 2015, 17:21

Would somebody on PPY50 mind saying how much a year you could expect to earn with regards to variable pay? I know youthinkso said 8k over the summer period, max. I was looking for an indication on the annual variable pay covering the winter as well. I wouldn't be willing to leave my family and head to Canada for 5 months. I appreciate this will change from base to base and fleets etc, just a good idea on annual variable pay with out overtime would be a great help. initial sums don't make this look like a great move. It would take approx 7 years to start earning the same salary and I would be about £100k down.:sad:

Aerofoil

19th Aug 2015, 17:52

In the winter it really does go the other way. Expect to fly as little as 1 flight a month worst case so your income i'd say is 90%+ made up from your PPY50 salary with VERY little added on for flight pay etc and i don't think i did a single flexi last winter as there simply were none going.

Flying Wild

19th Aug 2015, 18:22

What does the Canada detachment involve in terms of pay, getting out there, accommodation, etc?

Toast30

19th Aug 2015, 18:55

Based on the C-reg operation the company pay for your travel out plus an allowance for friends and family to visit (around £4k worth of flight tickets I total). You get your own 2 bed apartment and a car for the duration of the detachment. I calculated approx £13k additional net if I go compared to if I stay at home for the winter. That's based on around £3k back pay for the summer worked on PPY uplifted to 100% salary, £2k per month in tax free allowance and a bonus of around £2k net when you get home. I am in year 2 of PPY and IF I goto Canada based on my earnings so far this year (with a bit of flexible thrown in) I have calculated I'll make approx £80k gross.

Obviously depends how many of us get to go and it's all based on union and company politics, oh and seniority of course. As others have said the basic in year one with the ridiculous reduction for type rating is hard. However it's a nice place to work, nice aircraft, friendly FD and CC and very professional on the whole. Worse places to be and I've worked for a few airlines in the past.

Hope that helps

Primary Governor

19th Aug 2015, 20:37

During a busy summer month. What's the roster like?

Days on, off? 90hrs? Earlies, lates?

Are all the flights turn arounds?

Some really useful info from previous posters to date.

Much appreciated.

Aerofoil

20th Aug 2015, 01:58

From current experience 10 days off per month. You wont do less than 90 hours a month (this year people have been going over 100 hours in the last 28 days, I didn't know this but apparently this is legal if it happens during the return sector) A mix of very early flights, lates and deep nights (some landing as late as 8 or 9am). All flights are turn arounds on the 737 apart from sharm where its either a level 2 turn-around or a 1 or 2 night stop with yourself and your colleague (cabin crew fly back), 757 the same apart from they also do the same with cape verde islands and the 787 is mainly long haul but again that would take years for new joiners to get onto IMO.

hawker_hunter

20th Aug 2015, 16:32

Thanks to the guys who replied to my earlier questions. All this information you are supplying is extremely useful because especially the guys with families / mortgages and flight training loans would not be able to make an informed decision about what to do without all of this detail - that's not supplied in the job advert.

One last question :O - how popular is BHX as a base?

DooblerChina

20th Aug 2015, 22:35

flyboy1818

21st Aug 2015, 17:21

Cliff Secord

21st Aug 2015, 17:39

Play the chicken song over the PA during boarding.

Beakor

21st Aug 2015, 21:16

How can you as a Pilot for Thomson Airways evoke the holiday spirit with our passengers

Annouce a free bar shortly after take off and then at the top of climb proceed into the cabin and to start the onboard entertainment and lead the Conga

Does anyone have a better answer?

For better or worse, in the new world of recruitment, this and similar questions are highly important. Flippant answers or "not applicable" will be the end of the line for that application. (Very recently from a Thomson pilot manager).

Glad I'm not applying now, I'd have no chance but them's the rules.

Good luck everyone!
Beakor

olster

22nd Aug 2015, 11:54

Oh yes I can well remember at a Trainer's meeting being informed by a pilot 'manager' ( long gone to screw up another airline, fortunately) that " we are not normal pilots, we are holiday pilots... " ffs, what does that mean...? Give me strength. Oh, and btw if you are interested in command be prepared to go to a shop ( full uniform, naturally) and sell holidays; to show incredulity at what is on the face of it a ludicrous concept for the pilot group is to be ostracised from command selection. Pass the vaseline. We live in strange times... For all you Daily Mail readers and in the words of Richard Littlejohn, " you couldn't make it up".

rjay259

23rd Aug 2015, 19:11

Welcome to Thomson IT!

wingbar

24th Aug 2015, 09:28

Just logged in to complete, as I have been the same with work over the weekend and when I click 'continue application' I then get a message stating that the job is no longer available.

Not very friendly considering there was no warning of a closing date on their
website or in any part of the application form.

737aviator

24th Aug 2015, 09:37

The closing date was yesterday, it was clearly defined on the website, perhaps that is why people couldn't submit yesterday evening?

wingbar

24th Aug 2015, 09:42

it certainly was not 'clearly defined' - hence myself and another poster being completely unaware of it.

Primary Governor

24th Aug 2015, 10:25

In post #222 it's stated that the closing date was 23rd August at midnight.

Bus14

24th Aug 2015, 10:42

All part of the initiative test boys and girls - RTFQ.

Seriously though, I'm not sure whether you should be sad that you missed out, or relieved that you won't be subject to new joiner T&Cs that many of us in the airline view as utterly shameful.

teobull

24th Aug 2015, 16:05

Hi all,
Can anybody post a typical 737 and 757/767 roster.
Thanks for all the shared informations.

youthinkso

25th Aug 2015, 09:26

Teobull,

There is no such thing as a typical roster really, Carmen rosters duties to get you as close as it can to the maximum to cover all duties because we don't have enough pilots in either rank, this means that your Carmen bids (trying to get days off) generally get ignored in the summer because its priority is to crew all flights. Your only guarantee is to have 10 days off per month.

One roster could see you with 7 days on, one off, 5 on,two off etc etc with a combination of early starts, night duties, afternoon duties etc, or it could be all mornings, all nights, all afternoons, put in a bid for preferences (early, lates, nights etc) generally gets ignored for reason as stated above.

Asking anyone who has come to the airline on a previous pattern of 5 on 4 off will tell you the flying is much more fatiguing due to the rostering and doing deep nights and because we don't get days off in blocks your off time is of little value apart from trying to recover (in the summer). As nice as it would be to have days off in blocks our rostering department have decided to penalise the system for doing this so you get occasional single days off and sometimes a pair together, rarely more, unless using leave or guaranteed days off that have to be booked a year to six months in advance.

If you plan on not being able to make any plans in the summer you won't be disappointed, short term time off is a problem for line pilots, and don't underestimate the impact this will have on your lifestyle, family and friends.

lifestyle and rostering is and has been voted as the number one gripe by Thomson pilots for the last few years, yet nothing changes, there was supposed to be something introduced this year as part of last years pay deal that would improve it but seems it was another empty promise.

Can't wait for new EASA FTL's to make all the above worse !:ugh:

teobull

25th Aug 2015, 10:37

Thank you much youthinkso

Superpilot

25th Aug 2015, 13:20

youthinkso

25th Aug 2015, 13:32

If the average sector length at Thomson is 3.5 hours then you are clearly not working 5 days per week. X on, Y off statements don't paint an accurate picture in the charter business as deep night as well as early morning arrivals give you the same if not significantly more time off than LCC pilots. We spend more time in the cruise getting fatigued but LCC pilots get fatigued by 4 very quick turnarounds in a day. Its a very tiring job. Full stop. I'm only telling you what the former 5 on 4 off no deep night pilots who join Thomson are telling Thomson Pilots, there is no willy waving here, just information for consideration, roster construction has a very significant impact on fatigue and quality of life/lifestyle.....

Are night shifts killing me? - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33638905)

do 5/6/7 on with sometimes day off or blank in the middle and one or two off at the end on those average secor lengths and you are looking at 100hours FT..in 28 combined with the 10 days off, that's why the overtime system is not working as designed because there is no fat to give someone a duty without taking them off another.

Mr Angry from Purley

25th Aug 2015, 16:23

You think so

I'm only telling you what the former 5 on 4 off no deep night pilots who join Thomson are telling Thomson Pilots, there is no willy waving here, just information for consideration, roster construction has a very significant impact on fatigue and quality of life/lifestyle.

The guys working 5 on 4 off by chance do you know what FTL they are working to? CAP371 or EU Sub Part Q

Can't wait for new EASA FTL's to make all the above worse

So which scheme provides better roster construction then? CAP371 or EASA FTL (e.g. no limits on earlies, lates and nights which is what Sub Part Q offers.

Let's wait and see perhaps?

:\

youthinkso

25th Aug 2015, 17:00

You think so

The guys working 5 on 4 off by chance do you know what FTL they are working to? CAP371 or EU Sub Part Q

So which scheme provides better roster construction then? CAP371 or EASA FTL (e.g. no limits on earlies, lates and nights which is what Sub Part Q offers.

Let's wait and see perhaps?

:\

yeah it's no secret that MOL was opposed to EASA FTL's (strangely aligned with BALPA) vs UK commercial airlines who were in favour. Simply because for non UK FTL schemes the new schemes introduces restrictions, hence MoL opposition. UK airlines in favour because it relaxes several CAP371 components. Lets face it EASA FTL ain't going to do anything positive for those of us operating to G Reg FTL's hence BALPAs failed attempt to try and stop it coming in, I won't hold my breathe for it improving lifestyle that's for sure !! in terms of 5&4 I'm talking about the grouped days off and being able to plan your life with some degree of certainty beyond 30 days notice.....

Flying Wild

25th Aug 2015, 17:55

Asking anyone who has come to the airline on a previous pattern of 5 on 4 off will tell you the flying is much more fatiguing due to the rostering and doing deep nights and because we don't get days off in blocks your off time is of little value apart from trying to recover (in the summer). As nice as it would be to have days off in blocks our rostering department have decided to penalise the system for doing this so you get occasional single days off and sometimes a pair together, rarely more, unless using leave or guaranteed days off that have to be booked a year to six months in advance.

Shouldn't that be when you start reporting fatigued? When enough people start raising the issue, things will have to change, no? A lot of companies rely on the goodwill of the workforce to 'get the job done', but at what cost?

Twiglet1

29th Aug 2015, 07:23

Historically UK charter airlines have never offered fixed patterns of days off due to the seasonal nature of the programme and it's variability e.g Tunisia comes along. Mature airlines like Thomson offers roster protections such as block window whereas "newer" airlines such as Jet 2 it's a bun fight. If anyone could offer a fixed roster it would be Thomson

teobull

29th Aug 2015, 11:17

Just to get an idea....
Could anyone flying at Thomson PM me one of his summer month roster?
I would very appreciate it.
Thanks

VJW

1st Sep 2015, 16:04

PFO just received. Not disappointed, but thought I'd let people know.

teobull

1st Sep 2015, 16:48

PFO just received. Not disappointed, but thought I'd let people know.

Would you please state your "profile"?
Thanks

VJW

1st Sep 2015, 19:59

My profile? As in my experience?

Globally Challenged

2nd Sep 2015, 00:41

I can't imagine they want to know your Age / Sex / Location ;-)

VJW

2nd Sep 2015, 03:58

Well knowing my 'profile' is useless too I'd imagine. You either write a good application or you don't and I'd assume having more or less hours makes little difference at this stage, providing you have the minimum required.

5500 TT, most of which is 737, and 2000 as PIC.

teobull

2nd Sep 2015, 04:18

jhall_45

2nd Sep 2015, 10:23

Invited to assessment, 2000 hours B738, Anyone know anything about the assessment process?

Thanks.

Harry palmer

3rd Sep 2015, 11:48

Any non rated guys hearing either way? Or will they go through rated applicants first and then Non rated if inadequate numbers are reached?

All the best

ford cortina

3rd Sep 2015, 13:12

VJW, same Pfo as well.
Very experienced SFO, lots of hours.
Oh well they may want monkeys.....

Speedoneeighty

3rd Sep 2015, 13:27

I'm pretty sure applicants aren't prioristised in order of their experience. To be honest if you have PIC or high hours on the 737 then there is probably a good question to be asked as to why a part time position with Thomson is of interest to you.

JaxofMarlow

3rd Sep 2015, 15:30

And yet you are applying to Norwegian ! Or were you being sarcastic in the post to that thread ?

Speedoneeighty

3rd Sep 2015, 16:17

Well I am a low timer <1500hrs. I spoke to a Norwegian pilot who has been given a 50% winter contract and they were very positive about the job there :confused:

Is Thomson a better option than Norwegian?

JaxofMarlow

3rd Sep 2015, 17:17

I don't work for either but I would say your question is similar to asking 'steak or rubber, which tastes best?' Take a bit of time to read all the posts to the several Norwegian threads. Good luck.

VJW

4th Sep 2015, 06:57

Speedoneeighty you are absolutely right. It would have been nice to have been 'asked'....rather then have them assume why.

Would be interesting to have completed an absolutely identical application, with the only difference being I write I have 2000 hours as P2. Wonder if they'd invite that applicant.

FR_A

4th Sep 2015, 07:34

I was invited a year ago, but failed the case study. Applied again this year with the only change being more experienced and not invited this year. Don't really understand this. Do they only want SO?

Penworth

4th Sep 2015, 10:22

To be fair VJW, I've been invited to assessment and I've got similar hours and experience to yourself so don't think hours (or lack thereof) are a requirement.

Reversethrustset

4th Sep 2015, 15:07

PFO for me as well. I received the same thing, the role wasn't for me. 6,000hrs, 1,000hrs jet time, non type rated.
Oh well, I'm not sure i could've afforded the pay cut. Good luck everyone else.

Resurgam

4th Sep 2015, 16:31

PFO as well.
Just over 50 so expected it really - still you've got to try.
Current medium jet captain, 10K+ hours - and for speedoneeighty the reason I was interested (apart from Thomson having a good rep and the chance to do some different flying) is that my current company is mainly TP with a dwindling jet fleet, threat of redundancy in the fairly recent past and a question in the back of my mind over whether the company will continue to operate any jets in the future.

Hiltonharry

4th Sep 2015, 16:52

I do have an invite. Non rated. It mentions a technical test. Is this aviation technical or problem solving, maths etc?

Are there huge gaps in certain bases that most likely you'll be sent if successful, or do you have some ability to at least express a preference?

I'd appreciate anybody who would be able to give an example of a summer roster on the PPY50. Thankyou.

six-sixty

4th Sep 2015, 17:19

PFO here. Well over 5000 hrs mostly command TP, no jet. Too near 50? Too many TP hours? ?(the Zimbabwean $ of flying experience; current rate 1 trillion TP / 1 jet). Maybe I they just didn't like my answers/examples on the form. Guess I'll never know, but as Resurgam says (and I think we work for the same company) you've got to try.

The timing of picking up the email as I disembarked with my family from my Thomson flight home today was awesome.

cgwhitemonk11

4th Sep 2015, 21:09

Got the invitation today, 2500 tt, no jet, FO on small to heavy purple TPs.

Earliest day i can attend is in November however and may have another Jet job offer at the end of this month but hopefully they stall long enough that i can attend this! When are type rating courses planned do people know? Also i think i seen it mentioned earlier but is the reduced salary guaranteed to go to 100% after 5 years and most importantly are you paid the 81% from day one?

Thanks in advance, was pleasantly surprised to get the invite as I assumed there would be plenty of jet guys in front. For reference i answered the application questions very simply, no BS and no long essays, don't have time for that craic on an August roster!!!

OhNoCB

4th Sep 2015, 21:53

I also received an invite. <2000 hours tt with about half of that amount on jet.

cg, my understanding is 81% from day one less an amount which depends on whether you are type rated or not. Or maybe its the same amount but 1 year for typed guys/girls and 3 years for non typed.

I also understand that it is mandatory for them to offer you 100% after 5 years.

cgwhitemonk11

5th Sep 2015, 08:58

cheers for the reply ONCB, without jet time could you expect an FO position or only SO? And does an SO become an FO automatically after 500 hrs on type or is there a process involved. When you take into account the 7k deduction every 3 years, which is ridiculously overpriced, and the time to command the position becomes a lot less attractive. For comparison if one was to join Jet2 for example you could probably be a Captain on 100% in the time it would take you get a full time FO position with Thompson. Or even if i was to get a command on the dash next year I would likely make more money over the next five years..... :I

727Man

5th Sep 2015, 09:16

PFO for me 2300TT all jet, non typed 737. Think age might have something to do with it, even though no age discrimination, but still ask you on the application.

G-IZMO

5th Sep 2015, 10:14

Invited to attend. 4000 hours, 3500 jet, all corporate (none on a BBJ / ACJ) good amount of P1 time.

Any insight on whether freelancing elsewhere in winter is permitted to alleviate the salary deficit or will that be stopped to avoid exceeding annual flying hours limits?

Penworth

5th Sep 2015, 15:01

looking for a break

5th Sep 2015, 15:19

Got the email also and looks like people have booked dates already.

As above if someone could shed some light on what to expect would be really helpful, as the email doesn't give much away... My experience is NTR currently flying turboprops and instructing before that.

Good luck to all the guys/girls through to the next stage.

Speedoneeighty

6th Sep 2015, 10:03

I have been invited, 800hrs on type.

Toast30

6th Sep 2015, 11:43

The case study is an excersize where you turn up for work and you are presented with your usual paperwork. You might have a captain running late, a sick cabin crew member, a technical issue with the aircraft, issue with destination weather etc. it's simply an excersize to see how you priorities and organize yourself. Think about the whole picture I.e the pax,crew and commercial needs. Just take your time and try and pick out the major issues and don't be afraid to make a decision that is after all what we are paid to do. The exact details of this years case study I do not know but it's irrelevant anyway as it's just an excersize to see how you work under a bit of gentle pressure.

power.on.spin

6th Sep 2015, 12:01

Invited to assessment NTR. 3000hrs jet and instructional experience.

theflyingbus

6th Sep 2015, 13:17

To try and answer some questions

In my opinion Carmen is hit and miss, I've had the same simple standing bid since day 1 and have a different roster every month-despite what my satisfaction score says.
If anyone fully understands the leave system they are not telling anyone. Captains struggle, as an FO I have got leave in 5 of the 6 summer months this year, but not Xmas. Less families etc I guess?
Leave is factored for PPY or part time
Doing other work during your off periods I believe is not clear cut and you need approval from the DFO, the official line is it can't be for a competitor, but I'm not allowed to exercise another type rating, just SFI,I'm full time though

If your only concern is getting to the LHS of a commercial jet as quick as possible, don't waste a sick day

Good luck

Boeing 77W

6th Sep 2015, 13:33

Penworth - Sent a PM

olster

6th Sep 2015, 16:41

yup, do the industry a favour and don't do it - sub ryanair conditions around the corner...

DooblerChina

7th Sep 2015, 06:26

Can I ask a few questions of those already in Thomson regarding the package on offer.

I understand the leave is 42 days per annum. Is this pro rated to 81% of that for those on a part time contract? I understand the leave available is based on seniority and also how many leave points you've accrued in the previous season, but how much leave is it possible to take in the summer? Is there any limit or is it just subject to the above? Do you still get wrap round days round leave?

There was mention earlier in this thread that blocks of days off are penalised in carmen. Has carmen got worse over the last few years or do you just have fewer crews? Is it still possible to get some say over the roster, say a preference for earlies, for example? Do you still have roster protection on all duties?

I know previously the staff travel was something like £1500 to give 70% off a Thomson holiday, do you know if this is what is on offer to new joiners?

Have the negotiations regarding the pension been settled and if so what is the offer going to be for new joiners? 10% company contributions was mentioned, what is the required employee contribution?

Thanks

Leave is 42 days pro rated, you can bid initially for 2 weeks in summer and then top up later. The rules are really complicated! Leave has wrap around days and extra gold days can be added as well so a 7 day block can end up being more like 10 or 11. Seniority has very little effect on leave, mostly it's how many point you have accrued. August and Xmas leave is mega points, November negligible.

Carmen, blocks of days of are not penalised, single days off are. 99% of my days off over the last year or two have been in blocks of at least two, more like 3.

Carmen works for some people less so for others, I find the most successful people are those who just prefer earlies or lates. Or maybe SSH night stops, trying to get a specific day off through Carmen is difficult:

Block window still applies on all duties, 2 hours either side.

Staff travel is pretty good, you are sorta correct but it depends on what you want to book, sensatory hotels for example is your concession (increases with length of service) applied to 70% of the cost so you may only need to pay the 30% in cash. If your concession isn't quite enough then you can top it up with monthly pre tax deductions from your salary. If however you want to travel around Australia and fly Emirates then the discount is way less, I reckon you would need to pay the 75% and use your concessions on 25%, Im guessing a little here as I've never used it on a scheduled carrier.

Staff travel is actually really good but it's a bit like our leave system, it's really complicated and there a literally thousands of options and freebies most of which no one knows about. For example, I was off to France recently and just happened to bring it up with someone in the know and an hour later, after a quick phone call I had a return P&O ticket two and a car for 18 quid, Another 18 quid and we used the business lounge each way! The girls in staff travel are trained travel agents now and are keen to help compared to a few years ago. Mainly because they have more time on their hands as so much is done online.

Pensions... well I don't know what's happening there, it's actually been stipulated form board/European level as we currently have the highest pension contribution in the group, not sure what's going to happen but the union are fighting hard to keep it at 15%. I think minimum contribution is 3% but most do more

regards

HIGH5

7th Sep 2015, 08:56

I also have an invite for an assessment - NTR.
I wondered if anyone could shed any more light on the process itself?
In particular any info on what to expect from the technical test and the interview would be very much appreciated.

youthinkso

8th Sep 2015, 07:27

Leave is 42 days pro rated, you can bid initially for 2 weeks in summer and then top up later. The rules are really complicated! Leave has wrap around days and extra gold days can be added as well so a 7 day block can end up being more like 10 or 11. Seniority has very little effect on leave, mostly it's how many point you have accrued. August and Xmas leave is mega points, November negligible.
32 days per annum for new PPY50 joiners, 7 days allocated in first summer, new pilots allocated scores as if they have achieved peak in last 3 seasons.

Company have said pilots won't be able to surrender summer leave for next year, e.g. Don't take 2 weeks in summer and get 4 in winter instead due to winter work requirements....so why hire ppy50 and not full time Fo/so ?

Carmen, blocks of days of are not penalised, single days off are. 99% of my days off over the last year or two have been in blocks of at least two, more like 3.
carmen blocks of days off are indeed penalised, a rule set is set to prevent this as it does for single days off, confirmed by Carmen Manager at hug a pilot conference day 2 years ago.
Carmen works for some people less so for others, I find the most successful people are those who just prefer earlies or lates. Or maybe SSH night stops, trying to get a specific day off through Carmen is difficult:
Carmen will only ever work if we have the right number of pilots, this has not been the case for many years, satisfaction seems to be better in the winter when flying programme is quieter which confirms the above or based at a larger base.
Block window still applies on all duties, 2 hours either side.
Crewing been so desperate this year they have agreed with union that Flexi gets paid if you operate outside this too (if you want), see point above about pilot shortage.
Staff travel is pretty good, you are sorta correct but it depends on what you want to book, sensatory hotels for example is your concession (increases with length of service) applied to 70% of the cost so you may only need to pay the 30% in cash. If your concession isn't quite enough then you can top it up with monthly pre tax deductions from your salary. If however you want to travel around Australia and fly Emirates then the discount is way less, I reckon you would need to pay the 75% and use your concessions on 25%, Im guessing a little here as I've never used it on a scheduled carrier.
Agreed, however unfortunately the value of concessions has not increased in 15+ years vs annual holiday prices increasing 5-10% per annum thus rendering them less valuable each year that passes.
Pensions... well I don't know what's happening there, it's actually been stipulated form board/European level as we currently have the highest pension contribution in the group, not sure what's going to happen but the union are fighting hard to keep it at 15%. I think minimum contribution is 3% but most do more
It is a management type of argument, why should pilots get a bigger pension (15% for 3.5%) than management who get less..... Find me a manager that invested £130k in their careers, hopefully the union are still pushing this below the surface otherwise there will likely be a mass kick off as all expect the next step will be to apply this to current pilots, same strategy used when they closed final scheme to new joiners initially....

There is suggestion that the company plan to offer current PPY50 pilots work this year in the winter without the requirement to go overseas on detachment (good news) , this should trigger the, you will then be made permanent full time clause for all said pilots, guess what.... They have said they 'might' offer full time in May to some (different to what agreement/contract says - Bad news) so believe the being made full time after 5 years at your own peril.

it is the same agreements that says you will be made permanent if there is winter work, understandably many ppy50 pilots are annoyed and some now event talking about moving on having been here a while as they don't expect the company to abide to the 5 year term.

There is some misconception that PPY50 pilots should be grateful for the winter work for one season rather than their terms being upheld ?! No one has reached the 5 year promotion point yet, so it remains to be seen if they deliver on that part of the agreement... Be sure to recognise the uncertainty of this when making any decisions and it doesn't look like the union is insisting their trigger to full time clause be enforced for a reason only known to the union and company.

As a final thought, remember the company is very vulnerable to security issues e.g. Tunisia if for example there was an attack in Egypt this would have significant impact on winter work, all it would take is for FCO advice to change on sharm el sheikh where it is all getting a bit exciting in the Sinai Peninsula with ISIS, I fear it will only be a matter of time.:mad:

Good luck with decisions.

DooblerChina

8th Sep 2015, 08:49

Wow, talk about taking an informative post and putting a negative spin on it all!

I'm confused about the Carmen issue, why would Carmen be programmed to penalise blocks of days off? We all have to have a minimum number so what would be the point of penalising blocks when it also penalises singles? Therefore there's a rule set to prevent any day offered though we have to have them? That makes no sense.

And Carmen works for me just fine, as I said I think most people expect too much from it.

youthinkso

8th Sep 2015, 09:12

Wow, talk about taking an informative post and putting a negative spin on it all!

Just factual information, same as your post, many established pilots are not fully aware of the PPY50 pilots concerns, which the new joiners will be subject to.

I'm confused about the Carmen issue, why would Carmen be programmed to penalise blocks of days off?

Productivity - roster someone four days off then 7 on and same again over 28 days you need more days off in the month to achieve long consecutive working patterns,throw the odd one or two between long blocks of work and you need less days off over the month, of course it means you can't ask someone to do overtime without impacting remaining roster.

We all have to have a minimum number so what would be the point of penalising blocks when it also penalises singles?

As above, Only reason singles are penalised are because they are part of rostering agreement, otherwise I'm sure they would all be singles apart from legal requirements,penalising blocks of days off is a rostering efficiency rule rather than industrial agreement compliance rule as single days off.

Ps holiday concessions also pro-rated due to ppy50 status

DooblerChina

8th Sep 2015, 10:08

Well I still dont get it, I can only go of what my roster says and right now I am in the middle of a block of 4 BDOs, and I cant remember having had a single days off this year.

You say you are highlighting facts to help potential recruits but I cant help but feel a negative spin is being put on it, maybe you are PPY and peeved off? I dont know, but to state some facts of my own and to correct the rostering scare story. Since the start of the season, only .4% of days off are single BDOs on the 737, and on both the 756/787 fleets single BDOs account for .3% of days off.

Therefore, 99.6 - 99.7% of days off are in BLOCKS of at least two or more.

youthinkso

8th Sep 2015, 11:17

DooblerChina

8th Sep 2015, 11:23

Hi yes roster statistics show % of single BDO, on the system! I think we think of a "block" differently! I don't think 2 days off is a block of days off, to me 3-4 days off is a block, but that is subjective. I rarely achieve more than 2 consecutive days off, but stats not available for that.

Re negative spin, again just fact, don't think either of us have typed anything not factually incorrect. If people have all the facts they can make a well informed decision :ok: PPY50 issues are very real and relevant to recruitment consideration.

Hey listen I totally oppose the PPY situation and I think some small changes (the 7k bond and a reduction from 5 years to 3) would make quite a difference to the offering. But we can not change the fact that no body is forcing people to join on this deal. I actually hope more than anything that the company can't fill the slots as that would have to improve things, But I do worry that they will be over subscribed as usual.

youthinkso

8th Sep 2015, 11:51

I agree, the elephant in the room though is the fact that PPY50 pilots have had winter work for 2 consecutive years now yet the company does not employ them full time as per the contract and worthy of serious consideration, it demonstrates a lot of uncertainty for new joiners and draws in to question if they will be given full time at 5 year point. It affects a lot, leave, pay, sick pay, phi, pension, concessions, loss of licence amounts....... This is in effect the same as a +£7k bond for 5 years plus the initial £7k for 1-3 years.

If not careful the next argument offered will be that they don't have to make up ppy50 pilots like the agreements say because custom and practice demonstrates they have not done it for the last 2 years.... Hopefully the union have a grasp on it :confused:

manflexsrsrwy

10th Sep 2015, 12:55

Hi all,
Does anyone have any information no matter how old about the tech questions that can be anticipated at assessment ???
Is it in depth ATPL Stuff ( I did them years ago) or type specific to the applican as the Airline who cannot be named on here operating in the ME uses ?
Any info no matter how insignificant will go a long way ....currently rereading BRISTOW....any other ideas ...anyone ???
Thanks :ok:

McBruce

10th Sep 2015, 14:00

Tech element is new this year, so not much info regarding what's involved.

Code93

10th Sep 2015, 14:24

Been called, NTR. No mention of a sim ride? Any ideas as to how many people will be at each assessment day?

Code93

11th Sep 2015, 21:10

Hi everyone. I have been invited, non-type rated. I picked a day in the first cluster of assessment days. Should everyone expect to wait for a yes/no call for a few weeks until all assessment days have run? Also does anyone know what kind of time-frame re type rating course start dates are Thomson looking at?

O and whats for lunch on the day of assessment?:}

rjay259

12th Sep 2015, 20:53

Whatever sandwich you make😆😂

Mr Angry from Purley

13th Sep 2015, 18:38

Uthinkso

Crewing been so desperate this year they have agreed with union that Flexi gets paid if you operate outside this too (if you want), see point above about pilot shortage

How about "we" rather than Crewing e.g. The Airline

It is a management type of argument, why should pilots get a bigger pension (15% for 3.5%) than management who get less..... Find me a manager that invested £130k in their careers

Um wonder how many BY Pilots have invested 130k in their careers any idea on a % of crew?, most I know came up the ladder might have been bonded here and there. The old argument for the higher pension was early retirement that no longer applies.

Maybe the Manager could argue he deserves a similar pension "Find me a Pilot that works anywhere near as hard as I do"

youthinkso

14th Sep 2015, 07:57

Um wonder how many BY Pilots have invested 130k in their careers any idea on a % of crew?. I wonder what % of crew who have joined on new pilot terms in the last 3 years are loaded with said debt from investing in their career....

The old argument for the higher pension was early retirement that no longer applies.

The new joiner payscales created 3 years ago (when retirement age was 65) were based on 15% pension contribution and total remuneration over average career length, If the pension is being cut to 10% and then 7% ish for new joiners then new joiner pay scales need to be uplifted by the same amount to keep the career remuneration the same, you can't really expect no backslash in the company trying to reduce career earnings for new pilots, it's in effect a declaration of war on the pilots !

double-oscar

16th Sep 2015, 20:32

As they have received many more applications than places available on the selection days the first obstacle is the application form. Any mistakes and the applicant is passed over regardless of experience.

yeoman

17th Sep 2015, 10:59

Anyone who didn't answer any of the questions on the application form or put N/A was stripped out. :rolleyes:

StevieW

18th Sep 2015, 23:52

Anyone who didn't answer any of the questions on the application form or put N/A was stripped out.

As somebody with no 737-300/500 time, what was one supposed to put as an answer to this question then?

PFO, 1000 hours on the NG.

vectorsvictor

19th Sep 2015, 13:04

NTR 2700TT. 800hrs jet. Im attending an assessment day next month. Any info on the assessment day would be greatly appreciated. PM if you prefer. Has anyone been to their assessment day yet? I'm particularly interested in the details of the technical test.

vectorsvictor

19th Sep 2015, 19:50

Hi I'm NTR. 2700 hrs TT. 800 hrs Jet.
I have an assessment day next month. The format on the day is a Group exercise, case study and technical test in the morning. If successful then interview PM. If anybody is reading this who went to this type of selection during the last round of recruitment with Thomson then I'd really appreciate some feedback on what to expect to aid my preparation (no doubt others would too). Has anybody been to their current assessments already or do you have one soon? For anybody who does go would you be kind enough to post feedback to help fellow pilots? (that would be very useful). I don't believe we are competing against each other. We are pushing ourselves to reach a standard. I believe an airline worth working for will maintain their integrity on standards.

I'm particularly interested in what the technical test entails. ATPL theory or aptitude/maths verbal reasoning or a combination of both? Maybe type specific questions on your current type?

Any feedback from current assessments coming up will be very handy for all of us with assessments. I will post feedback after mine on this forum or PM if you'd prefer. I'm hoping someone before my assessment early October will have the same mindset as me to help others. PM me if you prefer. For those who didn't get an assessment and not sure why. There were some questions which required some thinking about to give a reasonable answer. Don't take this the wrong way but maybe they're looking for more from a pilot than just flying hours.
Good luck in all your careers everybody!

regards

VJW

21st Sep 2015, 12:16

Very strange. PFO received few weeks ago, been invited via email today to attend?!

DooblerChina

21st Sep 2015, 13:31

We have had an acceptance from our MD and various notices accepting that our numbers were way short this year and they are to address this in future. Hopefully this is in response and they are going to up the requirement. Either way, good for you.

Code93

21st Sep 2015, 13:41

Is it still the ballpark figure of 60 they are looking to hire? Roughly how many have been called to the assessment days?

DooblerChina

21st Sep 2015, 14:18

The plan was always 60, I have no idea if that has changed, I'm just highlighting that more recently our company have admitted being short this Summer. Whether that means more is only a guess.

Code93

21st Sep 2015, 14:39

Having spoken to some of the crews in the last few months they all seemed to think the company was desperately short. How are they fixed for winter or will all new hires be ready for next summer only?

Superpilot

21st Sep 2015, 20:14

The TCX training manager and his recruitment team don't let HR get involved in the selection process. The whole process comes across as genuine and practical as a result.

Boeing 77W

24th Sep 2015, 00:03

A majority of the recruitment team are pilots and I would say outweigh those from HR.

sdryh

24th Sep 2015, 20:36

Has anybody actually heard from "the horses mouth" what the contract is? Ie 85%? Paying for a TR?

On another note, I think the interviews start on Monday, any feedback on what they are offering and the process would be appreciated.

Good luck.

Jay_solo

25th Sep 2015, 13:30

Which month starts the summer flying season and which month ends it?

And while working 2 weeks on 2 weeks off during the winter, how many flights can you expect during the 2 weeks on?

RWY_31R

27th Sep 2015, 16:02

typically when does the new joiners groundshool start? is it over the slower winter months?

McBruce

28th Sep 2015, 16:12

Summer season 1st May - 31st Oct

Ground school courses historically have run from Feb - May. Who knows if this is the same this year, perhaps its on the recruitment site.

HIGH5

30th Sep 2015, 11:25

A few assessment days taken place now...

Any kind of heads up on what to expect would be much appreciated ;)

N9231C

30th Sep 2015, 13:08

Hi guys, I had the assessment today. There was 30 of us there. It was really relaxed. We arrived in and they gave us a presentation of the airline etc. They had Captains and First Officers all in uniform, running the show. It was actually really impressive. The first thing we did was the group exercise, we were split into groups of roughly 6. In the room we were given 5 minutes to read through a list of 13 issues to ourselves first. We had to prioritise which items were most important. Then you were given 15 mins in the group to discuss what was the most important. Once we'd all agreed on the list then we finished up and that was that. The second thing I did was the technical test. We'd 30 mins to answer 30 questions. The questions themselves weren't really difficult. They are all ATPL based. The last stage then was a case study. This one was interesting and it's what caught a few people out. You're brought to a room on your own. You're given a scenario that your are in an outstation, the Captain is outside dealing with a tech issues and you have to sort everything in the flight deck. The first part is about FDLs and how long the cabin crew and you have until
You run out of hours etc, the next part is about fuel planning. You're given 25 mins and then you have to present your plan to the Captain. Unfortunately this was it for me. They pulled us out individually and told us the news and gave feedback. Really nice people and seem like a great airline to work for.

Aerofoil

30th Sep 2015, 13:46

Why would you post this on a public forum?
Chances are that the process will be changed now and what people going in to expect wont be what happens now.
I imagine that you were asked at the assessment not to post what happened on pprune or social media and if you weren't....do you really need someone to tell you??

Penworth

30th Sep 2015, 14:06

I guess he doesn't care since he didn't get through. A kick in the teeth for those of us who went in blind and were hoping for a level playing field for the assessment. All else being equal, it will be those following behind getting this extra info who have a better chance of a job offer. I hope you're right Aerofoil about it being changed but I doubt it, for this week of assessments at least.

xollob

30th Sep 2015, 15:42

Gosh,

Its lucky I don't run recruitment, I would use my powers of deduction to figure out who N9231C is and actually offer them a job as they clearly demonstrate that just becaue they didn't succeed they have passed on as much information as possible to help others who are about to go through the process ! A bit like sharing the tips of going into some dodgy airfield wi gotchas that people only know from first hand experience.

Isn't that what being part of a team is really about, for me it says the opposite to those who are annoyed that people have shared the information if it reduces their chances. What information has N9231C actually shared that would influence what people do to prepare for the assesment, personally I would say zero.

Any other airline recruitment process is well documented on prune by those wishing to help all other candidates and give them the very best chance, it is exactly what the BALPA careers service used to do when it existed too.

Its a real shame if people aren't sharing the process if its in the hope of bettering their own chances. Even if the company said not to share the information, create a new ID and post to help your fellow pilots - I find it nuts that someone lambasts N9231C for trying to help others :D it isn't the apprentice and lord sugar will only take one !

rjay259

30th Sep 2015, 17:49

Aerofoil, Penworth.

There are a group of scenarios that they can pick from so no two days are the same. Also there is nothing about trying to trick anyone in the scenario section. It's about making a choice and sticking by it and your reasoning behind it.

Why not post about their individual experience on here? Also it's nothing that hasn't really been mentioned before in the thread.

N9231C, sorry to hear bud good luck for the future?

Trini_Wings

1st Oct 2015, 11:15

Forgive me for my ignorance of the company jargon, but when people say Carmen "penalises" you for taking certain days off, in essence what penalty are you accruing?

rjay259

1st Oct 2015, 12:57

Carmen is the rostering tool that is used in Thomson. Inside of the programme there are penalties that will srop it from doing certain things to much or not enough of.

It doesn't actually penalise the individual but it sometimes feels like it does.

Trini_Wings

1st Oct 2015, 13:21

Ah...thanks for clarifying

A330B777

1st Oct 2015, 13:24

Can you opt to stay permanent part year rather than go full time?

Sheep Worrier

1st Oct 2015, 14:59

I was also there yesterday and also, unfortunately, didn't go through to the afternoon interviews. What N9231C said is pretty accurate -- save that the tech test seemed quite a bit broader in scope than conventional 'simple' ATPL technical theory.

For those of you still to go, it's a good chance to get to know what seems to be a good employer and a really friendly bunch to work with. There certainly appeared to be no tricks or surprises. I would wager there's little in the morning session that can realistically be 'prepared' for in advance (save the technical knowlege factor).

Matey

1st Oct 2015, 16:31

I know of an F/O who has elected to stay part year this winter despite being offered full time.

Jay_solo

2nd Oct 2015, 07:05

Does Carmen make it difficult to book single day annual leave on a weekend during summer peak?

oceanhawk

2nd Oct 2015, 07:43

Leave is booked through the crew leave system and not via carmen.Nevertheless , that scenario is virtually impossible . Can't remember ,but you can have a limited number of short blocks of leave per annum.

Jay_solo

2nd Oct 2015, 08:06

Oh i see, thanks Oceanhawk :ok:

DooblerChina

2nd Oct 2015, 11:28

I'll try and keep this brief as leave/Carmen etc are all quite complicated and new joiners will get to sit down and really study the systems and how best to make them work for themselves.

So to try and get a weekend off in Summer there are various options, the easiest is Gold days. A full time pilot on the 73/75/76 has ten of these and they are booked on pairs up to a year in advance down to about 2 months.

Then there is Silver days, there are again 10, booked on pairs available about 3 months out down to 2 months.

Another option is leave, now this is the most complicated bit that only the dedicated understand (I don't) we have a points based system essentially the earlier you book (around a year) and the closer to high season (August) then the higher the points. The higher your points the less likely you will get your requests in the following year. Only a small amount of small blocks can be booked per season. This is to protect the roster as the odd day here and there would really cock up the rostering system whereas the standard week won't.

The final option is Carmen, this is our rostering preference system but most find trying to get a specific day or weekend off iffy at best. I put in for every weekend off in Carmen and get two or so a month so I'm happy.

The happiest and most successful people know the systems well and put a little time in to organise their lives, I find those who only try for August off every year and never really bid through Carmen or use GDOs/SDOs are those that complain that the systems don't work.

Just to add an example, I put a bit of time (an afternoon a month) into organising my life and next year I have a week in March for skiing, GDOs April for a wedding, two weeks in May for golf and another foreign wedding, GDOs in June for my birthday and GDOs in August for the bank holiday. I'll get a week in September as well. The only moth I haven't covered is July so I'll book a weekend off now to make sure I have at least one.

Hope that helps, DC

DooblerChina

2nd Oct 2015, 11:29

Sorry all of the above is based on full one so the physical number of leave days/GDOs etc will be factorised

Jay_solo

2nd Oct 2015, 14:46

DooblerChina

2nd Oct 2015, 15:45

Ok, thanks for that detailed explanation.

But I'd assume if you need to take an emergency day off for that week (house flooded, gas leak) or next week, it would be difficult?

And can you for example: bid for earlies on a specific day and lates on others or is it either all earlies and all lates?

Emergency days off are always granted, the company is really good at that. There's loads of family friendly options for fixed days off as well.

And yes, you can bid for earliest/lates/specific destination/days off/flight number/base to base or trips etc I can't remember them all.

hec7or

3rd Oct 2015, 13:30

have you ever needed an emergency day off? when my poor old dad was rushed into hospital (he died 3 days later) the b@stards in crew control told me I could only get out of my AGP later that day if I was myself sick! I explained the situation to them once again in words a monkey could understand, only to get the same unhelpful response. It took another 2hrs of pacing up and down, before I got some sense out of a senior manager who finally released me from the duty and only after explaining it all yet again. That was 10 yrs ago and I still haven't got over how totally useless and unhelpful crew control were when I really, really needed support.

To be fair, I did get out of the duty, but only after a huge amount of needless stress which would have rendered me unfit for duty in any case.

Just don't try to tell me how good they are....

rjay259

3rd Oct 2015, 17:39

My grandfather died eight years ago while I was on contract with the scandies, I was also down in ace on a night stop. I spoke to crewing and they organised for me to get back to Oslo to pick up clothes and then to get back to the uk, it all happened by the next day, I was off for 10 days in total with no questions from anyone only a how's it all going and anything we can do attitude.

Had a few other days when misses was preggers and again crewing were nothing but helpful. Maybe they had been given an attitude readjustment?

hec7or

3rd Oct 2015, 17:50

Mr Angry from Purley

4th Oct 2015, 10:40

when I rang crewing to explain the circumstances, I was expecting them to be helpful as I had heard extremely good things from colleagues about how they handled compassionate issues and given the extremely stressful situation, they only managed to add more stress, I was utterly gobsmacked by their totally unsympathetic attitude

The lesson to any Pilot reading the post is to go to your Pilot Manager first.
For all we know the guy that hec7or could have been speaking to might have been in the same issue having had a no from the Company or a bad day in the Office (no excuse however). Pilots in general think Crewing Staff are there bosses - wrong.
I had a similar situ many years ago when Mrs Angry was sick. I rang BA Crew Control (she was having asthma attack) and got a ear full from Crew Control, no one else etc etc. I politely advised I was sorry but it wasn't her fault and it was now Crewing's issue. More negative banter so I slipped in I was more than happy to follow up the call the next day with XX who was the Boss of BA Crewing (and who i knew well)

The wife got pulled in when she went to work next.

O the opposite side when we witnessed the BMA Kegworth crash at EMA and the wife went to work the following day I rang BA and they could not have been better.
Did I hold a grudge against BA - No of course not :\

double-oscar

4th Oct 2015, 10:43

Ten years ago, First Choice or Thomsonfly, possibly the difference. Certainly nowadays the company always try to help out when necessary.

DooblerChina

5th Oct 2015, 08:43

Yes, I have needed emergency days off and yes I have gone directly to my pilot manager who has always been brilliant.

H44

5th Oct 2015, 14:54

Hi

I've been offered a job with Thomson and am mulling over whether to accept. On the one hand I think Thomson would be a great place to spend the rest of my career - the overall package is quite a bit better than my current company. Initially though I'm looking at a 50% pay cut along with part time for 5 years, sat at the bottom of a seniority list (never comfortable) and back in the right hand seat for potentially 15+ years – all added up makes me wonder if I'm mad to even be considering it, especially as I've a UK command at a base near my home in a relatively stable airline. I've read right through this thread and it seems there's differences of opinion in the current workforce as regards Thomson as an employer but I felt the vibe overall seems to be generally positive? Ultimately obviously only I can make the decision but wondered what others thought?

H44

rjay259

5th Oct 2015, 23:26

I think the 15+ years to command may be coming to an end due to the fact that it was five years ago that the age discrimination law came into effect. Saying that don't expect command within ten years tho.
I like it here, it's varied, or was as I've now just joined the 787 fleet. I think if you plan to be part time for five years then you won't be disappointed if it happens, I don't think you would be but sadly don't have the crystal ball. It's a great bunch of people to work with hence why after ten years I'm still here.
Ultimately tho the choice is yours and the considerations you have to make are yours alone.
Whatever you chose good luck.

double-oscar

6th Oct 2015, 08:21

Hi, it is a difficult decision. I too took a pay cut and gave up a command to come here but virtually everything else was much better and I have never looked back. Perhaps my decision was a bit easier as there were no PPY contracts then. Like most companies there have been difficult times but there have been great opportunities too. I still think Thomson rates as one of the best employers in the country. Good luck whatever you decide.

H44

6th Oct 2015, 10:48

Thanks for the replies. Is there a type freeze period after an internal transfer? I'll be joining on the 737 but would be bidding to go on the 787 straight away. Say I put down the 75/76 as my second preference and got it after a couple of years, would I be then blocked from going on the 787 for another x number of years?

For sure, the pension for new joiners is on the company's list but there is more than one way to skin a cat. The negotiation team is closing in on a deal that by definition will need to be ready for day one of the selection days because that will be the first question.

Yeoman

Was any progress made on the pension issue that you can divulge on here? Or was the 10% pension mentioned at the assessment centre with no change to the basic salary as good as the CC could get out of the company?

xollob

6th Oct 2015, 16:15

H44,

Would the decision be easier if it wasn't a part time contract, perhaps offer to accept based on this being a full time contract and the £7k charge being a bond instead of a deduction from wages ?

As for 15 years to command perhaps coming to an end, yes 65 bubble is coming to an end we are currently in the process of merging/aligning with European airlines within the group, but with about 350 FO's in Thomson alone at 20-30 commands a year it is still along time. Also I am yet to see a merger that reduced to the time to command or didn't create a pilot surpus and force negotiations for the better.

Other departments within the business have just been given notice of redundancies and we have been asked to remember this in our internal communications and be sensitive. Pilots and cabin crew are not subject to this at present as far as I'm aware. Doesn't mean we could be tomorrow though.

Sounds like you're giving up a lot for relatively little gain ?

JB007

6th Oct 2015, 19:56

Other departments within the business have just been given notice of redundancies

As someone who was surplus to requirement in 2010...that sentence would not want me at the bottom of a seniority list, especially if you're giving up a secure job.

Penworth

6th Oct 2015, 20:10

Pilots and cabin crew are not subject to this at present as far as I'm aware.

Why are other departments facing redundancies? Is it a reason which could possibly be related to pilot redundancies? Seems strange to be recruiting 60 pilots if there are already too many!

youthinkso

6th Oct 2015, 21:55

Who knows, but if it was my airline and I was struggling to crew flights I wouldn't show the glint of my sythe until summer was over, the organisational changes email came last week, long after recruitment had ben organised. I don't for a minute envisage flight operations being exempt from the notice indefinately that other departments have been put on, for me it is a possible threat out there which should be added to the thinking pot.

I'd hate for someone to give up a job that puts food on the table and then be subject to a consultation period or never get a foot in the door having been offered a job.. Pilots and cabin crew are a large cost base, it would make no sense for us to be exempt from financial saving aspirations.

Alliances with TUI Nordic sees them full time crewed for winter and us crewed for summer with opposite peak periods, I envisage North Sea crossings and more productivity for the Scandis in the summer in the UK operation and us in scandinavia peak season (winter).

If it was my trainset I would be saying why incur more cost in more employees when we can use each other's crews (subject to union agreement).

This is the line from the comms 24th September "Flight crew and Cabin crew are unaffected by the proposed changes announced today."

It's the "Today" bit.......

Yes it does seem odd to recruit if we are over established, but is that based on a Thomson airways pilots or the "Reshaping Thomson Airways" comms, perhaps there is now a new vantage point, a lot can happen in 3 months between giving notice and becoming employed at new employers airline.

youthinkso

6th Oct 2015, 22:00

H44 was going to fwd you said comms so you could read for yourself in a PM but does not look like your account is set to receive PM's, let me know if you change account settings and will send through.

double-oscar

7th Oct 2015, 08:42

H44

I stand to be corrected but there is no type freeze when changing fleets. If a vacancy exists on a particular fleet or at a particular base and no one else senior to you wants it, you should get it. This is overseen by the union.

Youthinkso

A few months ago we were looking at the creation of One Aviation. The group has five airlines each with its own operations departments. This makes no sense from a cost point of view. People were concerned work would go to those airlines with the lowest cost base (Jetairfly, Arkefly). However, this has not happened and Thomson has been loosely linked to TUI Nordic. However, Thomson has already been working with TUI Nordic for some years and it is quite a good fit.
Savings will be made by combining departments where possible and so some operations staff will sadly lose their jobs. From a flying point of view we will still have the same number of aircraft to fly. Personally, I would hope that from a combination of Thomson, TUI Nordic and Sunwing the summer/winter balance will almost disappear and this will lead to the end of PPY contracts.

However, as previous posters have said, there is always a risk in changing jobs. External events can never be predicted and can have much bigger effects than internal company policy.

Good luck.

xollob

7th Oct 2015, 08:52

xollob

7th Oct 2015, 08:55

A few months ago we were looking at the creation of One Aviation. The group has five airlines each with its own operations departments. This makes no sense from a cost point of view. People were concerned work would go to those airlines with the lowest cost base (Jetairfly, Arkefly). However, this has not happened and Thomson has been loosely linked to TUI Nordic. However, Thomson has already been working with TUI Nordic for some years and it is quite a good fit.
Savings will be made by combining departments where possible and so some operations staff will sadly lose their jobs. From a flying point of view we will still have the same number of aircraft to fly. Personally, I would hope that from a combination of Thomson, TUI Nordic and Sunwing the summer/winter balance will almost disappear and this will lead to the end of PPY contracts.

However, as previous posters have said, there is always a risk in changing jobs. External events can never be predicted and can have much bigger effects than internal company policy.

Good luck.

I don't believe we have seen Scandinavian pilots flying UK operations before, this would be new if it was agreed.

hec7or

7th Oct 2015, 11:33

From a flying point of view we will still have the same number of aircraft to fly.

why would you need the same number of aircraft?

yeoman

7th Oct 2015, 12:21

H44

The pension discussion is still ongoing. The safe assumption, at least from a do I /don't I perspective is that the company will get their way. Cue wailing and gnashing of teeth from the usual anti BALPA crowd here, the same ones that don't join or perhaps do join but only to vote against a plan to save a few more from redundancy........and then leave once the vote's done :D

Anyway. Sorry I can't be more help.

IMHO there is also a bit of misunderstanding around recent developments. We were always going to end up in some kind of Trans National Agreement and personally I'm pleased it's with the Nordics rather than anyone else. There's nothing nasty in that statement, it's just a better fit for us both for the reverse cyclic peak already mentioned above. There is also far more common ground in the two operation types than with any other group airline ranging from aircraft types and destinations through to robustness of Industrisl agreements and allowances etc. Bluntly, if we are going to go down the TNA road, and we are, make no mistake then I'm considerably more comfortable if it's this way.

The job losses are most likely through our old mate "synergies". It is very likely that sizeable chunks of the back office functions will be rolled into one rather than five set ups. Fuel, hotels, duty free products, photocopier paper, loo roll, you name it will all be sourced centrally with the associated "economies of scale". A lot of people, many of them good will go.

It would be impolite to comment on who might stay but in the past we've had some extraordinary choices for some quite serious jobs and lived to regret it:ugh:

And if you really want my view, the overall package and prospects woukd have me looking at TOM in the same light as VS and BA (it's not all roses there either I'm reliably informed). The rest I'd leave to join these 3 if I had 15+ to push.

H44

7th Oct 2015, 12:57

Thanks for the info Yeoman. Given that Thomson and TUI Nordic have a reverse cyclic peak, it would seem inevitable then that there would be a more even distribution of work over the year, but would unfortunately also suggest that there will be a pilot surplus resulting in the inevitable "synergies".

Like you say it's probably in the top 3 airlines in the UK, but only if you can stay in long enough to feel safe from redundancy. If it wasn't for the elephant in the room of more cost cutting I would be jumping at the chance to join, but given what happened in 2010 and this management's track record, I'm starting to err away from accepting the offer.

EPRman

8th Oct 2015, 02:04

yeoman,

I'm sure our colleagues on the BALPA forum would be interested in your 'safe assumption' regarding the pension issue.

xollob

8th Oct 2015, 07:17

H44

if you really want my view, the overall package and prospects woukd have me looking at TOM in the same light as VS and BA (it's not all roses there either I'm reliably informed). The rest I'd leave to join these 3 if I had 15+ to push.

Yeoman,

Do really think the starting terms
for cadets and new SO/FO is really as good as BA & VS as in

TOM Forces part time for 5 years & charges £7000 to new pilots even if eyes already and cadets earn £1200 a month ?

I think this puts our terms for new pilots at the lower end to many airlines out there recruiting at the moment.

yeoman

8th Oct 2015, 07:23

EPR Man

I don't think they would be because they would read the qualifying comment "from a do I / don't I (join TOM)". May I ask you re read my post and then quote from it in context?

I was answering H44's request for information a few pages back directed specifically to me and specifically asking if the issue had been resolved. It hasn't and therefore the ONLY SAFE [/B] assumption, if you are considering joining TOM as s/he is is that you will be joining on a reduced pension. That way any change to that assumption can only be a positive one and I don't end up facing (legitimate) charges of "but you said......"

But anyway, thanks for proving my point :E

yeoman

8th Oct 2015, 07:32

Xollob

As with EPR, please re read exactly what I wrote rather than selectively quote. I would put us up there in terms of "the overall package and prospects" if I had "15+ (years) to push".

I agree the starting deal is rubbish which is why I and my CC colleagues spend an inordinate amount of time trying to improve the lot if the guys towards the bottom of the seniority list. That effect washes out IMHO and makes TOM a career airline.

BTW, your screen name autocorrects to "colon" on iPads::} thought you might like to know:p

xollob

8th Oct 2015, 08:53

Yeoman,

Thanks, I guess the washing out bit is true, just a shame our spin cycle takes 5 years (longer for cadets) and the initial washing tablet costs £7k :O

Regards xollob and colon they are relatively close to each other anyway And when looked at from a different angle that would be the first observation :eek:, just have to hope one doesn't mistake one for the other at crucial points :}

:ok:

xollob

8th Oct 2015, 10:21

This gives an idea of airline changes in the opening few minutes.

http://youtu.be/6lkMQorxVd8

EPRman

8th Oct 2015, 10:34

Yeoman,

That's not how your post reads.

And I'm not sure what point of yours I've proved.

yeoman

8th Oct 2015, 12:06

Xollob, I've only just got that, very good! Still I'm a bit "backwards" me sen. Always need to be careful but I reckon you're safe; pretty hard to mistake inny for outy in that neck of the woods as it were. Except in HKT of course. Allegedly.

EPR

I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it either in the originsl post or with the clarification I gave subsequently? Maybe you could have a go as I'm pretty certain you see exactly what I was trying to say to H44 but have chosen to mix it in with another of the axes that need grinding.

By doing so you prove my point which is that in the eyes of some BALPA is the enemy within and no opportunity to have a dig should be missed. I answered an honest question honestly and I'm at a loss to understand why you're struggling with that, with the answer I've given and indeed, why you seem to think I would deem it appropriate to answer questions on the matter in one way here and in another way on the BALPA forum?

TRY2FLY

8th Oct 2015, 15:54

Has anyone had a job offer post sim check yet or will it be next week?

Borg

14th Oct 2015, 16:59

Has anyone had a response, either good or bad after last weeks sim assessments?

manflexsrsrwy

28th Oct 2015, 16:44

Anyone care to share their experience of the selection so far, positive or negative outcomes. Any information welcome, assessments still ongoing so it will be a helping hand for those still to attend....thanks all....

Aerofoil

29th Oct 2015, 00:03

I imagine that anyone who mentioned ThomPson in their application didn't get too far. However I have heard a rumour that the 60 pilots Thomson were aiming to take on might have increased to a higher number? This of course could prove to be just that, a rumour....Could be an interesting start to next summer either way!

manflexsrsrwy

29th Oct 2015, 07:27

ok, apart from the spelling lesson, have you any useful information to contribute my petty , above average spelling capable friend ? the original question still goes unanswered.....

rjay259

29th Oct 2015, 08:26

There is a very good description a page or two back, it will answer most if not all regarding what you can expect.

We have approximately 20-30 senior chaps who have applied for the VES which is an exit scheme. How many actually accept is anyone's guess, that could be a reason why more entrants are needed.

When are you due in.

oceanhawk

29th Oct 2015, 18:26

From past experience, I would say about one third will actually accept and go.

Maxbrake

31st Oct 2015, 07:38

manflexsrsrwy, what aerofoil says about correct spelling of Thomson isn't petty in the recruitment team. If you have been called forward and incorrectly spelt the company name in your application then lucky you! Here's a pointer, loose the attitude! Why not accept gracefully that you got something wrong. No points for being macho...

Bus14

31st Oct 2015, 14:19

Oh the irony.

Maxbrake makes a reasoned, and quite correct argument, on the benefits of correct spelling and appropriate attitude, and then slips on the good old loose/lose banana skin.

So, amongst the attributes of a good candidate are spelling, attitude, and, just as important, proof reading.

manflexsrsrwy

31st Oct 2015, 14:31

Fair enough guys, apologies for getting the spelling wrong, it for some reason felt natural....to add the P, ce la vie as they say and more importantly thanks to the contributors for the pointers in the thread.

Wasn't trying to be macho, just more frustrated at the pointing to an error as opposed to providing something useful ...ie bad CRM, "focussing on what you did wrong as opposed to what you did correctly".

good luck to all on the assessments, hope you all get through, should that be what you desire....:ok:

Aerofoil

31st Oct 2015, 16:31

Having been stood in the crew room with and having flown with members of the recruitment team recently I'm aware that people who spelt the company name wrong left the reader in a bit of disbelief and I quote 'if they can't be bothered to spell the name correctly how can they be taken seriously'. So by pointing this out I was simply trying to help you dodge a potential negative before you have even got to the assessment day. I'm guilty of making spelling errors, I do it all the time but I already work for Thomson and I'm not the one attempting to get a job here. So you could choose to take heed of people's advice or you could continue to attempt to cast judgement on your potential future colleagues crm skills instead. The company and the recruitment team have spent a lot of time and effort on the assessment days and all the guys/girls running it are great people to be working with...wouldn't it be fair to expect the same effort is made in return and at least get the companys name right?

manflexsrsrwy

31st Oct 2015, 20:07

I agree with you Aerofoil, advice heeded, believe me. Thanks for the heads up genuinely & it was an honest mistake, the reaction although off key was after a rather long day in tight shoes...we've all been there right ?
I can only speak for myself, but advice is always welcome ( after your last post, I double checked my application for that devious P !)
All the best...man flex

Aerofoil

31st Oct 2015, 21:21

We have all been there for sure. No harm done and best of luck for the assessment.

H44

2nd Nov 2015, 14:02

Nope. I've been given a start date and that's it! I assume the induction is at Luton but as to its contents, time scales etc I haven't received any info - I assume it will be forthcoming closer to the time.

McBruce

2nd Nov 2015, 15:50

Typically information on your course will start to come out to you about a month before your start date from my own experience.

A340rider

2nd Nov 2015, 16:46

haha all this fuss about the spelling of Thompson..its not even £30,000 a year, crickey its not a job at BA for Concorde...must be a joke above, Christ alive haha

McBruce

2nd Nov 2015, 17:13

Its about giving yourself the best chance by not giving the team an easy decision on your application. Its a school boy error to misspell your potential employer on your job application form.

A340rider

2nd Nov 2015, 17:55

would they notice... if FO's earn less than £30,000 what are HR earning? maybe work for food & water or maybe they pay for there job and bonded ha

hec7or

2nd Nov 2015, 18:06

I wonder if any of the ex CVT crews remember the sandwiches in the catering coolbags with the printed labels misspelt "thompsonfly"?

Another one to look out for is the water truck at BHX with "portable water" proudly emblazoned on the side!

H44

5th Nov 2015, 15:37

Are there any requirements for operating long haul flights for Thomson, eg. total hours, time on type, or any other criteria? Or is it just a case of being senior enough to bid onto the 767 or 787?

nosmo king

5th Nov 2015, 16:13

Being in the "right" base and seniority.

looking for a break

8th Nov 2015, 17:12

Hi all,

Just wondering how many non type rated people have been offered jobs and how the Egypt situation will affect last weeks interviews and job offers?

Thanks!

youthinkso

25th Nov 2015, 22:08

The question about how will Egypt impact is a good one. The most scary prospect of changing airlines is that 3 months when you have to give notice to actually being taken on by the new employer, in that window a lot can happen and with the Egypt situation as it is it doesn't look great and I could imagine last minute recruitment numbers being adjusted to cater for it. It's certainly an extra risk to take in to account if considering handing in notice somewhere. I can also imagine it being used as an excuse rolled out to suggest no more promotions for a while.....

H44

26th Nov 2015, 10:59

Would Thomson do less flying next summer as a result of Egypt or just increase the holidays/flights on offer to other places? I'm hoping the latter as I'm in that awkward position of working my notice before joining Thomson at the start of next year. Has anything been said to the troops internally about this?

DooblerChina

27th Nov 2015, 10:35

We usually just expand into other areas, the canaries most likely will have an increase in business. Traffic to Egypt has been in decline for a few years anyway.

Cliff Secord

10th Dec 2015, 22:46

What's the rate of attrition like for the last few years with this PPY and the current surge of UK recruitment?

A Very Civil Pilot

12th Dec 2015, 13:42

What's the rate of attrition like for the last few years with this PPY and the current surge of UK recruitment?

I can't quote exact numbers, but several of the guys joining over the last few years on PPY have already moved on to other airlines offering full-time contracts.

Superpilot

1st Jan 2016, 15:56

Purely out of interest. How is recruitment looking for TOM? Did they make up their numbers?

DooblerChina

2nd Jan 2016, 18:16

It actually went incredibly quiet so normal people like me can't answer it really. The company has had quite a few additional hurdles to deal with like a fairly good uptake in the severance scheme and some operational issues. Nothing major but I suspect with Xmas, recruitment has been pushed down the list a little till things get clearer this month.

If you are still awaiting news, then good luck.

I do know however our new cadets are well into their type ratings so good luck to them.

DC

Sciolistes

3rd Jan 2016, 02:10

I agree with the Thompson recruitment team. The optimum use of recruitment resources is better engaged by disregarding people for silly and irrelevant mistakes regardless of their ability.

BN2A

3rd Jan 2016, 03:28

Mistakes, or attention to detail??

🤔

JW411

3rd Jan 2016, 10:51

Please excuse my ignorance but what is debabting?

Speedoneeighty

3rd Jan 2016, 15:23

Its the link between men who have timy members and a spelling fetish.

rjay259

3rd Jan 2016, 16:15

Timy???

Must be me then!

DooblerChina

3rd Jan 2016, 18:34

So the debate continues amongst those with nothing better to do.... meanwhile, those who could be bothered spelling the name of their prospective company correctly are busy enjoying their lives and their careers...safe in the knowledge that there will always be people trolling message boards and cocking up applications forms...

Superpilot

3rd Jan 2016, 21:29

Thomson, Thompson, Thomas Cook. As if the pax know the difference :{

Matey

3rd Jan 2016, 22:14

From the Head of Training at a recent meeting, the recruitment went well with a mixture of type rated and non type rated recruits as well as the internal cadets. Type Rating courses are underway now, and the 737 training programme is a very busy one with new pilots, type changes and Command courses. As to the question of the type of contract being offered to new recruits, the message was that the Company are well aware of the fact that the market is opening up now, and to "watch this space." I wouldn't be at all surprised if joining terms and conditions at Thomson changed to reflect the increasing choice available to pilots seeking pastures new.

oceanhawk

4th Jan 2016, 13:59

" as if the pax know the difference"

Absolutely spot on.

H44

4th Jan 2016, 15:45

This thread has precisely nothing to do with passengers and their perceived difficulty in telling Thomson and Thomas Cook apart - it's about recruitment for Thomson and the importance of putting a bit of care into the application so you don't make it easy for the recruiters to put you in the PFO pile.

Matey - that's good news that the management have acknowledged that the offer might have to improve in future years to attract good candidates. While not immediately affecting people like myself who are joining this year with the disappointing £7k OCC cost etc, it will hopefully be a positive in terms of reducing the time spent on PPY, as well as generally driving up t's and c's - I hope!

yeoman

8th Jan 2016, 18:01

This thread is fascinating! We've got a bunch of half wits joining in with the sole intention of knocking Thomson. Sure, there's plenty wrong with the company but imho there's plenty more that's right.

We have a modern fleet that is about to grow and become even more modern. We have a reasonable set of Ts and Cs and a Scheduling Agreement that sits well inside the EASA limits. We have representation that can still influence management.

We have just had the annual bid and of the 49 new Commands around 20 are the direct result of BALPA engaging with the company as are additional airframes which in part accounts for the 60 new recruits, all of whom didn't take the p, figuratively and literally. We have just received a bonus of an average £2,000 and an additional £500 in Thomson Travel vouchers. A SAYE share scheme is operating and IIRC gives one free share for every 4 bought. Shares are currently trading at c£12. As a year 19 Captain I take home £6K+ a month after all the various deductions and work hard but not excessively. Caution, I'm one of the luckier ones, I'm on a great fleet and still have a FS pension. I'm acutely aware that others aren't so fortunate. That is why I became a rep and that is why I hope to very soon be able to give good news for those joining. Don't ask. I also look forward to providing details of our latest pay deal which should shut a few who know nothing of this airline up. Oh, and the back problem my wife has is being expertly treated under the free private healthcare.

There is a history of managements bearing down on Ts and Cs in lean times. This applies to all airlines ad the deniers are deluding themselves. There is a history of changing back in TOM during better times and I'm pretty certain that will happen if we are unable to attract the "top talent" alluded to above. This year was close for getting the numbers but the discussed solution was to expand the numbers of Non Type Rated applicants where there was a surplus of suitable applicants. Rather than accepting a lower standard the solution was to increase cost. Granted, some of that cost will be borne by the successful applicants, all of whom appear able to see beyond the end of their nose.

Returning to the bid, a reasonable number of those who've joined in the last few years are now about to join the 787 fleet. The PPY bit was only ever "up to 5 years" and history meant that in the past thus meant 1 year. Unfortunately some took this to mean a precedent was set and were dismayed to find that they were looking at longer. If I were a betting man, that should change.

So, the detractors out there who've turned this thread into the typical Pprune **** slinging contest, over to you, how's your Ts and Cs and your future? This bit of the forum is all about that. Just a hint like.

Intheclouds

8th Jan 2016, 19:55

yeoman, have all of the 60 positions been filled?

Matey

8th Jan 2016, 21:01

Well said Yeoman. Happy New Year matey!

Pin Head

9th Jan 2016, 00:06

DooblerChina

10th Jan 2016, 17:59

Well done yeoman, good stuff.

What's the news for commands in the future? New aircraft? Do we aye a retirement bulge coming up, any numbers/year?

For what it's worth I ve had more time out of the company on time off through approved schemes/detachments than time in the company.

It's been fantastic!

Commands filled up to summer 2017 apparently with a steady 15-20 thereafter based on current fleet plans and retirement projections. Having said that, no one envisaged 50 upgrades this year so who knows... the future looks bright either way.

He says... cue 2016 recession....

yeoman

12th Jan 2016, 15:49

Sorry if my post was immoderate but it seems to have struck a chord with some. They of course work for TOM and therefore know what's what and have the perfect excuse to have a moan and to have a moan at me as a rep.

I'm sick of dropping in here from time to time to post what I hope is useful info only to find a bunch of people who presumably lessen the pain of their own lot by finding fault in the lot of others.

Simply put, I've yet to see any of them answer my question and several thousand qualified applicants applied for the latest round of recruitment. To answer In The Clouds' question, yes, all 60 places were filled even after some changed their minds and withdrew.

For that reason I'd be reasonably comfortable in saying the company will now have to reappraise their remuneration offer to continue to attract the talent, a point made clearly by Matey who is of course another chap who has actually sat in a room with a TOM manager or ten and had it from the horse's mouth rather than a mate of a guy who once got a peck on the cheek from the mum of a temp Hosite who last worked for us in 1972.

As for promotions, yes a great result this year after some serious discussions and I'm hopeful we might be able to jemmie a few more. There is a retirement bulge of sorts, high teens in numbers IIRC for the next few years. The early retirement scheme went better than anyone hoped and is a win / win so hopefully we'll revisit that soon.

So, as I said, plenty wrong in the company but show me a company that isn't bearing down on costs at every turn. More importantly, there's a lot more going right and looking good for more to come. To those who want to work for a company that treats you like a God, pays you whatever you ask, asks nothing in return and Bollox to the shareholders and / or owners, I wish you the very best in your search. For everyone else there's a slack handful of not bad employers out there. IMHO, TOM is one, warts and all.

Twiglet1

12th Jan 2016, 15:59

Yeoman
Shame all Nigel's don't live on the same planet as you. Grass is always green and in my humble view TOM is up there. The only down side I can think of is Luton - is there such a thing as a decent hotel there yet...

yeoman

12th Jan 2016, 16:05

Sorry Pin, I missed one of your questions. New aircraft is the fleet rollover to the Max and additional 787-9s. In terms of airframe numbers it's +1 and a bit due to them moving around the Group. Pilot numbers will be up IMHO as the 787 starts to really spread its wings and start long runs with a resultant need for more pilots per airframe, longer rotations, 3 crew ops etc.

SH is less certain but history has shown that TUI is big enough yet agile enough to shift emphasis pretty quickly if needed. Spain was hurting badly with the rise of Turkey and Egypt, IMHO we'll see a bit of a rebalancing what with very recent events.

The Nordic LH operation is also blending nicely with new routes opening there with us operating Vietnam sectors from March as well as the current KBV and HKT etc. We're also doing a fair bit of their Caribbean. Some of their pilots have been integrated into our operation for this reason. Flexibility here is also paying dividends after the political pissing contest between Russia and Sweden, the 787 has the legs to go the long way round avoiding Russian airspace, the 767 doesn't so 78s have been switched out to Nordic and 76s to the Caribbean.

Canada is still a viable operation again cooperation and flexibility paying off as we have UK and Belgian airframes and crews out there which justifies extra airframes in the UK in summer. Important point here is that the pilots are a secondary consideration in terms of airframe numbers; if you can get work for the airframes year round you get the pilots. Have a squint round MAN at the number of UK airframes parked up. Now look at the paint jobs; not much blue.

Enough. I'm even boring myself!

yeoman

12th Jan 2016, 16:10

Twiglet, no. No such thing as a decent hotel in LTN. You don't have to go there unless you've been bad. Most guys do a two day induction there never to return again. Even ferry flights usually involve a fast car out as soon as you've dumped the aircraft at the hangar.

Oh, add that to the list. Generally OK hotac (some shockers down route, true enough but working on that). Decent surface travel, all paid for. Long Haul into a UK base other than your base is straight into a hotel rather than into the rush hour M25 in Stinky Steve's Minicab.

McBruce

12th Jan 2016, 17:11

Any hint from the top about additional 8 bases?

yeoman

15th Jan 2016, 13:21

McB

None. That doesn't mean anything though, only I've not heard. 8 would be pretty hard in the UK as most are already covered.

This leaves 2 options:

1. You or someone else is on a wind up mission, it's Rumour Network after all!
2. This has been conflated with a possible closer intergration with Nordic treating their bases as an extension of the UK? Pretty wild but it makes sense to my mind anyway.

McBruce

15th Jan 2016, 20:39

No wind up at all. Just a curious bidder after seeing the S17 results showing more RHS leaving the fleet than bidders going on, wondering if the people willing to commute has dried up.

rjay259

15th Jan 2016, 21:15

Sorry, you lost me, if people bidding out why 8 new bases??? I've missed what you have meant.

McBruce

15th Jan 2016, 23:07

No problem at all.

My own curiosity was trying to seek if the picture surrounding the 787 crewing/basing is complete for S17 based on the bid results.

More RHS are off the fleet purely for command, the bid stopped at PPY pilots. Less FOs on the 787 as a result of the latest bid results.

I'm not a fan of commuting so bidding onto the 8 at the big two bases wouldn't be long term for me, so always hopeful that further bases may pop up in the future for the fleet. Given the fleet size and its rotations, I don't think it's that far fetched. I was curious if the company is struggling to get bidders onto it at the big two.

rjay259

16th Jan 2016, 06:13

Oh ok the 78 bases not '8' new bases.

H44

16th Jan 2016, 10:14

I don't think there's a shortage of bidders for the 787 at LGW/MAN, the problem is that most if not all of them are PPY. Will be interesting to see what the future holds for PPY with respect to the pay deal to be announced in the next couple of weeks.

pudoc

16th Jan 2016, 19:09

As somebody who wants to join the company, I just can't justify the 7k for the OCC on top of part time. If they can remove one of those then sign me up! Seems like a nice place to be. Looking forward to seeing what this new pay deal has to offer.

Toast30

16th Jan 2016, 21:07

The 7k OCC is a p*ss take and I suspect it's an issue that has been discussed recently at high levels because it clearly prevents people from applying who may be suitable for the job. I thought long and hard about the issue when I joined and it still grates on me today, especially when they have the cheek to type freeze me as well. When this policy came in, the supply of pilots outstripped demand. The reverse may now be true so perhaps this will change, who knows.
If you delay your application by a year or two in the hope that the 7k reduction will disappear it will only bite you in the arse when it comes to bidding for other fleets/bases or command, as others in front of you get what you want before you. There is lots of movement and recruitment at the moment so if you want to join you may as well be as high up the seniority list as you can get. It's a decent place to be at the moment and I would highly recommend it.
As others have suggested those with the long term view have joined the business and not looked back. I don't think the ongoing pay deal will address the PPY issue but hopefully it will sort out the pension debacle.

pudoc

17th Jan 2016, 10:21

Thanks for the info, you have a good point on seniority. Unfortunately, my reasons are financial, the first year would be very uncomfortable. I realise it's short sighted, but being long sighted doesn't pay the mortgage or support home life for the next 12 months!

Good luck to all.

Crapjob

27th Jan 2016, 13:22

Could someone let me know what aircraft use for the sim assessment and if possible where it is based out of. Also what is the profile?

Thanks,

Lead

27th Jan 2016, 22:56

Well at a guess they'll want it to be realistic. So it'll be a 73. It will also be scheduled for 3 in the morning with a detail involving some badly run hellhole nestled somewhere between the Taurus mountains and a line of those 'dodgy looking clouds'. No doubt you'll be vectored into some granite too.

I jest. Thomson is a great company. Good luck!

H44

2nd Feb 2016, 19:08

Maxbrake, I believe it will be a cold day in hell before the guys hired last year receive the offer of full time contracts, before the 5 year mandatory point unless they challenge it.

I was interested to read that those who joined last year have now been made full time and those joining this year will stay full time until May 17 at the earliest.

Matey

2nd Feb 2016, 23:28

Market forces influencing TOM recruitment policy as predicted.

yeoman

3rd Feb 2016, 11:09

Exactly my point Matey. Life good?

Matey

3rd Feb 2016, 18:00

Excellent thanks Yeoman. Mainly shut in the box at LGW though!

yeoman

4th Feb 2016, 07:03

Great. Well, if the rehab works there is a chance they'll let you back into the mainstream population. Worked for me and now completely Training Planning free.

Be good. Maybe see you next week as I'm in LGW for a few nights.

Reversethrustset

18th Feb 2016, 15:33

I'm starting with Thomson in a few months on the 738. I'm surprised nobody mentioned it but they did a last ditch assessment day recently and most, if not everyone on my assessment day had the rejection letter last year but still had the call this time around. I just hope I've done the right thing jumping from high up on a seniority list to the bottom of Thomson's. Good luck to all who has just been through the assessment day, I hope you've got through.

Reversethrustset

Boeing 7E7

19th Feb 2016, 07:48

Only time will tell whether you have made the correct decision. Hopefully you have! What we do know is that a significant number of 'new recruits' have not turned up on the day they were expected as they either had second thoughts or have gone elsewhere. This explains why some pilots that were initially rejected have subsequently been deemed suitable and asked to join. Welcome!

yeoman

19th Feb 2016, 16:05

Not quite.

4 of the original 61 selected decided that their future lay elsewhere. They all communicated that decision prior to day one. A little different from a significant number not turning up IMHO.

The recruitment was reopened by simply reviewing the first screening criteria that was based on hours. This meant that otherwise suitable candidates for the full assessment who had been originally screened out purely on hours were asked to come for assessment. The assessment standard remained as previous as it was recognised that the hours screen was pretty crude but the assessment standard was the real test of suitability.

It is very clear that market forces are now kicking in with opportunities opening up with a number of operators.

Welcome to the latest batch.

Reversethrustset

19th Feb 2016, 16:51

Yeoman, I've got more hours than I know what to do with and I was originally screened out. Do you mean I may have had too many? There was an eclectic mix of people at the assessment with half having the experience to have at least 4,000+. The good news is we are spending year 1 on full time. I can't wait to get started.

Boeing 7E7

19th Feb 2016, 18:29

Thanks yeoman.

yeoman

20th Feb 2016, 09:24

Reverse Thrust

No idea if I'm honest. There may have been other screens that were in play but that's speculation on my part.

The whole screen thing needs looking at as its a fairly crude way of thinning out thousands of applications to the few hundred they actually invite to assessment.

Good new for you though and welcome.

7E7

No problem

Reversethrustset

20th Feb 2016, 11:55

Yeoman, as you probably know the application system was very, very basic with just two questions in it on the subject of the EFB & single engine taxying, both of which we use in abundance in my current airline. It almost seemed too basic to screen out candidates but hey I'm not complaining one bit as I was very fortunate to be given a second chance and I passed the whole process and got the offer.

Definitely good news for me and thank you. I look forward to getting started, but not necessarily to another type rating. See you around the network :ok:

tdk90

29th Feb 2016, 12:22

PPJN updated today mentions recruitment for late Summer 17 courses, are they planning that far ahead or is it possibly a typo?

A Very Civil Pilot

11th Mar 2016, 07:27

Commands, type changes and recruitment for Summer '16 are well under way.

In a surprise moment of foresight a few weeks ago, commands and type changes for Summer '17 were announced, and although I don't recall seeing it, probably a figure for recruitment as well.

DooblerChina

11th Mar 2016, 08:11

I'm pretty sure CD said another 50 in a recent video blog (the one where he interviews loads of other people I don't really know) although to be honest, I wasn't really listening. I'll see if it's still on the iPad email later and check.

yeoman

15th Mar 2016, 12:22

Recruitment now open.

Good luck

jimboy473

15th Mar 2016, 12:23

Have Thomson massively underestimated the amount of pilots they need this year to be opening up again, or was this always planned?

yeoman

15th Mar 2016, 12:28

It's for courses starting earliest Oct 16 so looking to be completed for Spring 17. Training for this year is in full swing. Sort of:}

yeoman

15th Mar 2016, 12:28

Have Thomson massively underestimated the amount of pilots they need this year to be opening up again, or was this always planned?

In short, planned.

Ish

jimboy473

15th Mar 2016, 13:05

God I feel sorry for the training department! Mind you - it seems to be coping fairly ok at the moment, creaking slightly. We shall see at the beginning of the summer schedule!

Lead

15th Mar 2016, 16:11

Are there many leaving for BA/VS?

pilotpete123

15th Mar 2016, 16:35

I don't suppose any ex FO's from a large Irish 737NG operator who made the move to Thomson would like to share some of their wisdom as to whether they are happy with the change? Either publicly here or via PM? Any insight would be great :ok:

jimboy473

15th Mar 2016, 17:07

Are there many leaving for BA/VS?

I know of a few this year already, but only to BA, not VS (not that I know of anyway!)

I'm Off!

15th Mar 2016, 17:14

7k reduction for training again? Obviously not that keen to attract the best applicants then, simply the best from the people who can accept a deduction from salary for a mandated CCQ when already type-rated?

A Very Civil Pilot

15th Mar 2016, 18:26

It's nice to see the IT is up to scratch. I clicked on the job link, and apparently it's no longer available.

xollob

15th Mar 2016, 23:05

It's nice to see the IT is up to scratch. I clicked on the job link, and apparently it's no longer available.

This should work

http://tinyurl.com/TomTermsStillCrap

Nibber

16th Mar 2016, 08:31

Such a shame that they have such poor initial pay. Thomson is a company I would like to consider for their regional options but there is no way I could afford to take such a paycut. I guess this would definitely put off some of the more experienced pilots.

727Man

16th Mar 2016, 11:12

This link also TUI Jobs - Thomson Airways (http://tuijobsuk.co.uk/work-at-tui-travel/thomson-airways/)

DDobinpilot

17th Mar 2016, 18:23

Anyone know what the average monthly take home pay of a year 1 FO at Thomson is? Including all hourly pay etc?

Is it now just 81% pay for the first year? Then full time contract? And 7k a year for the first 3 years for the type rating?

Apologies if this has been covered before.

Aerofoil

17th Mar 2016, 18:50

Hi Ddobin

I seem to remember it was around £3500 in the summer when you're busy flying and around £2600 in the winter when you're quiet. That's assuming you have paid off your training bond already.

It's 81% for the first 5 years and then you get full time when you have completed the 5 years. The training bond is £7,000 for your first year if type rated and £7,000 per year for 3 years if not type rated so £21,000 over 3 years if not rated.

Hope this helps. :ok:

DDobinpilot

17th Mar 2016, 18:59

Many thanks! 😀

H44

18th Mar 2016, 14:07

Its not necessarily 81% for the full 5 years. 2 weeks after joining recently, we were told we could be full time for this winter, and the previous years intake have been offered full time positions. I doubt I'll be PPY at all to be honest, maybe one year at most. Granted it's always possible for those 5 years if the company decides to scale things back so it would be prudent to budget for the full 5 years being PPY but I can't see it myself.

Regarding the pay, yes it's a shame it's not full time from the start without the £7k OCC reduction, and for those who can't afford the pay cut for a year, it's a pity not being able to apply. If you can look beyond the initial figures though, it does get significantly better, 5 years in and full time command ready, the basic is about £70k. With the variable pay on top, day off payments, 10% pension, private health insurance, discounted holidays and so on, it all adds up to a decent package.

DDobinpilot

19th Mar 2016, 00:41

Good to know. I always think you need to actually be offered a job first before you start thinking about turning it down anyway, so it's worth applying.

It would be a significant paycut for me, but a huge boost in lifestyle.

Aerofoil

19th Mar 2016, 03:01

I wont be on PPY50 for long is what i thought also but over 3 years down the line only recently have i been made full time. So view this as though it could be 5 years that's all i will say. As we know the airline business changes from month to month but i'd say it changes even more in the charter market. As the offer is 5 yrs PPY50 i would read that as a solid promise and if it happens sooner than that then that is a bonus but it certainly is not guarenteed.

Company and career wise i would rather be here than BA but others may disagree... :ok:

Harry palmer

19th Mar 2016, 12:13

Has anyone heard back from them since applying?

Kirk out

19th Mar 2016, 12:46

So if you're a 737 Classic driver do you have to apply through the NTR option? And if so and successful then 7k deducted for three years for what would essentially be minimal training seems a bit excessive.

busybee123

20th Mar 2016, 14:36

I left Jet2 for Thomson early last year. Got made full time within 6 months and got back pay for the PPY months I'd already done.
Average take home net on PPY50 after pension contribution over the summer was about £3900 ish. With an overtime flight added into a months payslip it was about £4400 and with a couple of overtime flights was about £4800. The overtime is very lucrative. So for my first year I reckon my P60 is gonna say about £79000. Not bad considering thats minus the 7k training cost. Flew around 700 hrs including overtime.
We were lucky that we got full time quickly, hopefully the same will carry on happening. Lots of people retiring and an expanding long-haul network so wouldn't be surprised if it does. Very friendly company to work for with a fair bit of variety, short haul/long haul, round the world trips on the 757, Canada on the 737, Training FO's etc etc.. Good loss of license, private medical etc... I definately wouldnt look back. Also unlike other airlines no fear factor of making a mistake, being delayed etc.. We have a very just culture and are treated like professionals.